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Well let's look through our disscussion so far(feel free to add):
You stated they look like a dragon -> I've proven they don't You said we don't know what dragons really look like -> I've proven we do You said that dinosaurs and dragons are the same thing -> i've proven they're not You said they're based on japanese mythological dragons -> I've proven that they're not(cause people or horses aren't dragons...) So IMO, I'm winning this argument! :D |
Well, apparently they can make something out of a horse and a horseman. And you should know creativity knows no boundries.
And if you're saying you can't make dragons out of a horseman and a horse, then they're obviously not based on those two! |
Also, I posted with quotations from Bulbapedia regarding their origins from dragons (Palkia's European, Dialga has no reference, but you don't actually know what a dragon looks like, as a drawing's accuracy cannot always be judged, and we have no photos, therefore it could be a dragon), and whilst people may or may not hate Bulbapedia, non-factual stuff gets removed, so there's obviously something out there somewhere...
Also, it's common knowledge/consensus that Tyranitar's based on a dinosaur, yet everyone considers him a dragon.....and both of them have hints of dinosaur about them (Dialga is an Amphicoelias, Palkia is a Plateosaurus), so therefore they're dragons. Btw, stop being so naive Draggy. You say you've proven things, when you haven't. None of us have, because none of us have photographed, dissected and basically learned everything about every real life dragon ever to existed (in fact, although I don't want to go into it as you'll counterargument it, we have no proof they really exist). |
And your logic baffels me once again...
I think you're losing your touch tkallab! What do you mean I haven't proven anything?! 1- I've posted various pictures of dragons, and it clearly shows that Palkia, nor Dialga look like dragons 2- I've posted old pictures that show what dragons looked like! 3- Dinosaurs and dragons evolved from the same predeccesor, but that doesn't make them the same animal, or the same "thing" as you may call it 4- I've proven that their designs are based on those myths, but they are't dragons! |
How's he losing touch??
And explain how my logic baffles me, and I'll try and un-baffle you :D |
No, no, not yours, but tkallab's logic...
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Yes, Amore is definitely better than me right now... I really can't help but feel everything's just opinions that need to be questioned.
Actually, every argument, from both sides can be questioned, what makes everything so much harder... The only true fact we have is the Dragon type. And I'm definitely losing my touch when it comes to not being ninja'd by Amore. |
Okay, well....explain how tkallab's logic baffles you, then maybe he can elaborate upon it a bit to make it all clearer.
Btw, try to keep from the one-liners.....It sorta makes the thread look like it's descending into a messy argument full of posts that are written out so fast pc won't actually let us post because it's not been 60 seconds... Also, if you've proven they're based on those myths, where's your interview with the pokémon creators telling us that? They could've just based them on a horse and a pink suit of armour for all we know.... And with old pictures, I don't know if you understand what I'm getting at with them.....basically, we don't know how accurate they are. It could've been some guy who got scared when his wife found out he was cheating on here, and imagined her looking like a dragon! Ok, bad example, but you should be able to understand what I'm saying EDIT: @tkallab: yet there you are, ninja-posting me! |
Okay, I'll try to explain a bit better...
You said they can't make dragons out of a horse and a horseman. The only thing I'm asking you is why the hell not? ...Wait, that might have been a bit agressive. Consider this post ended with a smiley face. |
Lol.
It was you who drew the Togekiss/dragon combination, right tkallab? I think when words fail you, you should draw said human/horse dragon....because even if it turns out rubbish, it'd be funny :D After all, you have until November 30th to make people change their votes |
About tkallab's logic: XD LOL
he's making the same sentence twice, and it doesn't cleary say anything. But you see, that's why I KNOW that dragons really existed! How on Earth would it be possible that both Europeans, Asians, Mayans, Egyptians, ect. would draw the same animal if it didn't exist, and if it didn't really look that way! *sigh, ninja'd* How would you picture a dragon made out of a human?! A human with reptilian skin, wings, sharp teeth, and a long tail?! but then it's not a human anymore, nor does it resemble ie one bit! |
Well, okay, but that doesn't mean people who don't believe in dragons can't draw them however they want.
I'll just drop out of this conversation until I come up with some sense-making stuff. |
Of course it doesn't! Never said it does!
But i'd really like to see you draw that! |
Well....it could be a scaly fire-breathing human with wings....still the general body-shape of a human, but with dragon-like characteristics.
Likewise, a horse-dragon could be a horse with wings, scales and the ability to breathe fire. But I'm going to leave before the quality of my posts dips too much not because my parent's demanded my laptop or anything...I'm my own person, nobody controls me! |
Well, I'm not saying they're based on the horse and the horseman, I say they're based on those two gods' story, not appearance. Any version of the myth you wish. I don't know where Amore got the fact that there are dragons in th myth from. But it sure is helpful.
But okay, let me draw you dragons out of a human and a horse. But also, please do tell what you think what Dialga and Palkia are and let me draw that out of a human and a horse. |
Yeah, even if you could draw those, they would hardly be dragons...
*ninja'd, yet again* IMO, they're both some kind of aliens(Palkia some kind of warrior-thingy alien, and Dialga ciborg alien that looks like a horse) LOL |
Hehe, sorry draggy, i'm not with you on this one. But yur right about Kingdra not being a dragon.
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I never said that kingdra isn't a dragon...
It is a dragon IMO... |
Draggy, did you skip half my post?
Tell me what you think Dialga and Palkia are. I'll try to make that out of a horse and a human too. |
I've answered it, look up two posts(my post, I mean).
I'm acctually looking for this drawings. |
Oh, sorry. I didn't notice you edited your post. Human dragon, human alien, horse dragon and horse alien it is then!
But I can tell you Dialga and Palkia not aliens already, because they had a major role in the creation of Sinnoh, which is located on the Earth. |
And yet they came from space, where they went after creating Sinnoh...
That's pretty alien if you ask me! XD |
No, they came from their own dimensions.
Here's another line so this isn't a one-liner. |
Dimension, Space, the same thing!
You asked me what do they look like to me, and I've answered! |
No, I want to get deeper into this conversation or we're not going anywhere.
While you think you know what dragons look like, you definitely can't know what an alien looks like. 'Alien' is a term for any living being that does not come from Earth. It could look like anything, perhaps exactly the same as Earth creatures. The only alien Pokémon we have, Deoxys, has very clear origin, a space virus that has mutated in outer space. This means, in the Pokémon Universe, there are aliens that are viruses, not deities. |
Hey, I could make you a banner! In fact, I'm already almost done xD
EDIT: It won't let me post links so excuse me while I go make 4 more posts xD |
LOLOLOLOL
Sorry, but this was one of the funniest things i've read in a long time! XD Sure, we don't know how aliens really look like, but we do have some assumptions, or already settled ideas... So I'm comparing those two with what I think that aliens look like! Also, that mutating virus is a very imaginitive, but in reallity something like that could never happen. Yes I know you're talking about pokemon Universe, and that that's how Deoxys was formed, but it's still funny that you compared it to this! Also, Deoxys isn't the only Pokemon from outer Space, cause there's Jirachi! |
The horse and horseman could very well be true. I mean look at Palkia and Dialga, Palkia is humanoid with a tail, and Dialga is, eh, Horseanoid?!?!
It could also mean they just have Dragon powers, not necesarily be actual Dragons, just have their abilities. Cause I see Palkia, Dialga, Giratina and Arceus as the Gods of the Pokemon World. Quote:
You have to look at everything not like it doesn't exist, it just hasn't been discovered or proven. Welll that is all I have to say! |
No, Jirachi's different. Of course, we have the un-canon anime where he's got everything to do with thet meteor. But all the time, he's been in that crystal, and only comes out when the meteor is close. But that doesn't mean he comes from that meteor.
In Fire Red and Leaf Green's Pokédex, Jirachi's habitat is the mountains. It's even said it sleeps there, fighting back without waking up. Mystery Dungeon kind of lampshades this, too. So Jirachi is not an alien, in neither the games nor the anime. And yes that was very offtopic. I'll also reply to this: Quote:
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Now you're just loosing your own point tkallab...
So Jirachi isn't an alien, what's that got to do with the topic at hand? |
I know, but the part about Giratina does.
Second line! |
Ummm, what about my point?
And yes the Distortion World is technically Space. You are in space right now, and you are in time. The difference is Giratina's world is warped and so the laws of physics are warped also. I don't know much about Girachi though... |
Jirachi isn't from outer space as far as I'm concerned.
It just sleeps for 1000 years, and looks star-shaped (Which is actually wrong, as they're globes, but meh, you know what I mean). And c'mon, some dragons are four-legged and some are two-legged....Palkia has wings, too. Dialga's big thing on the back of the tail is a bit like a back-wing, if you get my meaning. |
Yes, of course it's in some time and space, horribly warped, but yes, time and space. But it's not in outer space.
And your points... Well, Palkia walks on its hind legs, and Dialga has four legs, but it ends there. And if the Pokémon world hasn't discovered a Pokémon, it means it hasn't been made up yet, and that means it doesn't exist. There's no point in looking at what doesn't exist yet. |
Hello, I'd like to join. i love dragons, hence the username lol.
Favorite Dragons?-Dialga, my favorite pokemon of all time, d-nite, mence Lance or Clair?-Lance, much more awesome imo. What is your favorite legendary Dragon?-Dialga Figured i'd answer these questions so you can get to know me a bit. |
Good to see you're on our side when it comes to wether Dialga is a dragon or not!
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WOO, busy busy busy, i had to shopping with my mum today, that took up alot of time, and then internet connection failing, took up about 4 to 5 hours of my time.
so whats up whos winning? |
DOn't misunderstand me, I agree that Palkia and Dialga are dragons, just saying that the Horse and Soldier thing could be true.
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fwah, im so tired and lazy that i couldn't read the last 2 pages, anyway i see it's still on about dialga and palkia, i have yet to send my vote, ill do it now.
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See, that's what I'm trying to prevent, people voting while they are uninformed. Always read everything before voting.
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I sent in mine dispite not being real talkitive for the past few days.
And still, they might of just used the horse/soldier bit only to make one bipeldal and one quadruped as that IS the only similarity. But used the Dragons as their base on apprearence to make them seem more fit for the legendary role. Also, for Palkia's case, I remember reading about someone saying that the round shoulders and the back-fins don't make him look draconic, but look at his typing as well, it's part water so it would make sense to make the "wings" look more like fins to fit the type. Also since his name and such is based on his version color, Pearl, it would only make more sense in the typing/appearence to match that of a pearl, hence why areas of him look more rounded and spherical in appearence. Either way, he is still more Dragon looking then anything, heck, he could very well represent a more of ancient-looking dragon which is why it may not be "exactly" like the dragons you see most commonly represented now. Same thing will go for Dia, There's a possability that if dragons did actually exist now, they wouldn't look the same in the beginning of the world then they would at present date. Even so, it's best not to get me started too much on Dialga, since he IS my favorite out of the Dragons. Hence why I tried to avoid and go more on the Palkia scale for not. |
Tell me when have you EVER seen an animal that lookslike Palkia or Dialga(nevermind the horse)?! You can't assume that they look like ancient Dragons(dragons that lived in the time of dinosaurs)! There's no proof of that, and if you would know something more on evolution, and how it works, you would know that early dragons looked a bit like Pterodactyls...
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Listen, I respect your theory of dragons existing, and I kind of understand it, but I don't believe it, and apparently, neither do Pokémon's makers. They don't have certain guidelines to follow when creating dragons, because they're not studied and all. Also, keep in mind that Palkia and Dialga are much, much older than your ancient dragon, and not created by evolution, but by Arceus. And Arceus doesn't have to follow any guidelines at all.
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LOL
Yeah, you've got a point there... I think that this disscussion is getting waaay of-topic, so a conclusion is this: we've both made our statements, we know each-other's arguments, and let's just leave it at that. What do you say? |
I say....welcome ShadowDragon! xD
Please make sure you read the first two posts and vote before the end of November! (I do recommend reading the last ten-ish pages before voting however, sorry. It'll help inform you more in certain cases, and confuse you in others) And yes, let's leave it at this before I start going uber-serious and accuse you of being a dragon-nazi or something xD n.b. my OP added more members! |
There's no proof either way for certain, so you can disprove or prove the theory either, it's just the way I see of it as. And being created by Arc means that being the first, they would be different then the usual dragons.
I was was more trying to think among the lines of the designers the anything, but then again, I failed in that area. Combined with the fact that I talk in circles too often...I usually try to avoid things like this. EDIT - Scratch this, apparently I seem to take TOO long trying to do one small post sometimes. |
There's one more thing I thought of, but I'm not sure wether it'll work in my favor or yours...
You know how Palkia and Dialga live in their own dimensions and all, where time and space probably has no meaning? What if that had kind of corrupted them? Like, being exposed to those strange dimensions would probably distort me, too. Where I'm going with this... Maybe Palkia and Dialga looked completely different when they were created. Maybe they looked like full-fledged European dragons, or even your warrior and horse. I mean, you don't know how time and space work. Maybe it changes you over time. Problem is, will this help to prove your arguments or mine? I don't really know... By the way, Amore, I'm not a dragon Nazi! I've been fighting for everything to stay the same all the time! Smily face. |
I was meaning Draggy...sorry. :D
No offence Draggy. But hey, why are we continuing this guys? Good point, but seriously, it ends here. New topic: If you could alter any dragon-type move, what would be, how would you do it, and why? I'll answer later.. |
Sorry for not reading the posts, good news is now ive finally got my PC back and now ill be online more.
as for the new topic, pherhaps Dragon Rage, it hasn't got enough power to be called Dragon Rage i think, it can be handy but it should be called something like...Dragon Temper....or something. Not saying it should be called that, just a suggestion. |
Dragon Pulse for me. It needs to look like Water Pulse, because it is the same wording of the move, but just with a Dragon typing.
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So in FireRed I was training up my Dratini, and where I was training all th wild Pokemon were at least ten levels above me, and whenever I used Dragon Rage it halved their health! So that is what is happening for me, not sure about you though... |
Yeah....that's because it inflicts 40 damage, which means Gyarados is the only evolved Dragon who ever gets any use out of it, as the others evolve at lv.40+, where most, if not all pokémon have 100+ hp, meaning it'd take at least 3 Dragon Rage attacks to knock them out.
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OK OK maybe i was wrong, it's never been that much use to me in wifi battles y'know, but it's a great move to know while doing training.
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Lol, as long as you only take on pokémon below lv.30 (or random nfe pokémon up to lv.40).
So while yes, it could be good, I reckon it's ok as it is. It's better than Sonicboom, and usually more powerful than Twister xD |
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I was going to ask what was so "non-dragon" about Dialga and Palkia, but I realized that I would be kicking up more dust. XD As for the dragon move that I would alter, I would alter maybe Dragon Rage. It sounds so cool, has awesome animations, and... does 40 damage ._. |
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My point Exactly, Dragon Rage is usefull, but ought to be given another (not so cool sounding) name. |
Dragonbreath should be as powerful as Dragon Claw, IMO, just special...
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For the first time in a long time, I can agree with draggy! In my opinion, DragonBreath is the only original Dragon move, whereas all the others are stuff any Pokémon cando with the word 'Dragon' before it. The only think I can say against DragonBreath is that it should burn instead of paralyze.
Which brings me to my next part. We should have the move Screamer. In Monster Hunter Tri, all dragons have an organ called the screamer, with which it can produce an incredibly loud noise, stoping all hunters in their tracks. Screamer should be a special Dragon move that can paralyze and make the opponent flinch. |
Sorry for inactivity... Welcome new members
I has been following everything via e-mail, so I know what's happening. http://drag0nl0ver.deviantart.com/journal/0/ read this... plz don't kick me out for this large amount of up-coming inactivity. |
Well that sucks... I guess if you have an explanation it's fine, Xilfer was absent for some time too, because he was moving... But I think it's a bit different for you. I think you won't be kicked out of the club or anything, of course it's up to Amore to decide... But I'd worry about other stuff than being kicked out of the club. Seriously dude, I've been in school trouble once too, and it wasn't fun. I'm rooting for you!
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That screamer move sounds rather interesting. Might also lead to bad jokes about those screamer prank vids on youtube. Also, I think D-Breath should be stronger yes, and a burn vs paralyze makes sense.
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I'm sorry to hear that Zapdos, i hope everything resolves eventually. Yes, I'd have to agree with you there tkallab dragon breath ought to burn, and a move called Screamer would be cool, i guess, but it would be sort of like screech, wouldn't it. |
No, more like Hyper Voice, but much, much louder. Did I forget to mention it should damage too?
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I want to make it stronger, like making it have an 80 to 100 damage to its opponent, because it only hits well at the beginning times in the game. It should really have a power boost even if it takes in taking away some power points and accuracy, because it should really be strong. |
...You know what would be awesome? Dragon Rage changing power with every stage of evolution! Like, Dratini still damaging 40 hp, but when it becomes a Dragonair, he does like 60 or 75 hp damage! And then Dragonite would be able to hit, like Dragon's Roar said, 80 or 100 hp! That way, the move would be more powerful, but not too broken!
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Stronger Dragon Rage... *starts drooling*
I guess that consecutive dragon rage would work, but d-nite doesn't need it! When he steps in the battle all of the oponnents Pokemon faint cause of it's epicness! :D |
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Yeah, dream on, Xil! :)
I'd also like to change Twister, cause imo it should be stronger, and confuse aswell! |
Or it should be Flying...
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Lol. Yeah, I'd just remove the dragon-typing....
Although then again, I like it as a dragon move, it's brilliant to have early on when nothing resists it.....:D Oh, and nobody's getting booted! 3 months inactivity is what you need to be kicked out....and that's not in this thread, because that's hard to track. That's like, if I look on somebody's profile in June and they haven't been online since January....then they'll be removed from the member's list. Although, if they were formerly active...I may add another list titled "former members" where it gives a reason they're not a member before.....but no links to their profiles :D |
Yeah your right Amore and tkallab, twister ought to be Flying typed.
Hey Amore, i've been meaning to ask you this for some time now (keep forgeting) could we maybe RE-Do some topics cuz my brain has been drained dry of new topic ideas. |
Ok...although I'm only really able to find the ones of Silhouette's OP and possibly look through the first couple of pages....
However, I do have a slightly "new" (adapted) one for whhen the move discussion dies down, prepare for a discussion over......trainers! That's all I'm saying for now.... |
ok cool, im gonna go surfin the web while i wait for this new topic, don't forget, if you redo topics from the first few pages some of the later added members (such as, say... Me) won't have answered them yet and they will find them new, even though members such as dragoniteuser will probably already have done them, so new for some old for the others.
just pointin out. |
Yeah...yeah, I know. I tell you what, the new topic's coming in 1 hour, 43minutes....well, roughly that, as I log off at 22:00ish my time most nights.
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Ok, here's a topic for ya:
We'll play the guessing game, like in the thread "Who's that Pokemon", but in Dragon mode, OK? I'll start: I'll live in the sea, yet I'm the fastest Flying Pokemon! |
um....Dragonite?, wait i don't think he lives in the sea.
I know! is it: http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/e/e2/Spr_4d_249.png? Or dosen't he count as a Dragon? |
Your first guess was right!
Next question, since you didn't ask any: Which Pokemon saved Ash and Max in the Movie: Jirachi the wish maker? |
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And for the above post, didn't Flygon save them? |
You're right again, but you're supposed to ask a question too...
New question: What was the first mystery and a giant Pokemon in the Anime? (it's a dragon of course) |
quick quick::::::::::::::http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/9/96/Spr_5b_149.png
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First is Gyarados, second is Flygon.
He's swimmin' through yo sandbox He's snatchin' yo Pokés up Try'na sweep em so y'all need to Hide yo sweepers, hide yo tanks and hide yo counters Cause dey owning errbody out here You don't have to go and get revenge killed We gonna ban you So you can run and tell that Sand shark And I got multi-ninja'd. |
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Dude, you might want to post four words.
And how did you like my Antione Dodson impression? |
omgantionedodson win
like my favorite meme lolz now back to topic. |
@tkallab
The first wasn'tGyarados, but Dragonite! New question: I'm a fast blue pokemon, with a strong mind, and heroic heart. |
ok srry about the 4 words thing, but it was Garchomp right?
and yes you antonio des..dovk..evli (never heard of him) was great. Ninja'd Dratini? |
Nope, not Dratini! Guess again...
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Would the answer be Bagon? Or one of it's evolutions!
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Nope!
Read the description carefully. it's quite easy acctually! :) |
It is a Dragon type isn't it?
Well in that case, Gible? |
LOL, no!
Yes, it's a Dragon Pokemon. A Psychic too... |
Oh Latios!!
I haven't played Ruby/Emerald/Saphire so I am not all too familiar with those Pokemon! |
*managed to get on* took you a while to guess latios guys. I saw fast, blue, and heroic. Only one answer.
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Hello, guys. I would like to join the Dragon Den! Here's my answers to some of those questions:
Favorite Dragons? Tyranitar, Flygon, Latios, Rayquaza, and Salamence, if you mean just Pokemon. I think Flygon should be a dragon... Should Garchomp and/or Salamence be Uber? No. I see nothing about them that can't be done by other Pokemon. Lance or Clair? Lance. Which Dragon looks best Shiny? Ononokusu. Giratina: 'Origin' Form or 'Another' Form? Origin, I think. Whats your Dragon Team? Flygon (should be a dragon!), Salamence, Tyranitar, Dragonite, Latios, Latias, and Rayquaza. Should Tyranitar be a Dragon? It certainly looks like one, so why not? What is your favorite legendary Dragon? Latios, in my opinion. |
i not much of a Dragon type fan but lately i changed my mind as much as i dont like them i love them at the same time so yes i do like them now
Favorite Dragons? Salamence. Should Garchomp and/or Salamence be Uber? Of course they should be. Lance or Clair? Clair duh. Which Dragon looks best Shiny? Salamence, Green Dragon ftw. Giratina: 'Origin' Form or 'Another' Form? Origin form. Whats your Dragon Team? Dragonite, Kingdra, Salamence, Flygon, Gyarados, Tyranitar. Should Tyranitar be a Dragon? Sure why not its as strong as one and looks similar to one. What is your favorite legendary Dragon? Always have been and always will be Rayquaza. |
welcome both of you, I'm sure Amore will add you once he gets on.
we are currently playing a guessing game, dragon pokemon style. |
... And Xil still isn't asking any questions! >:(
XD New Q: Cand fly but it doesn't have any wings, can dive, and controls the weather with it's spheres! |
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Known as the pre-historic dragon; used by one of the dragon masters. <33 |
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