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-   -   The Dragon's Den V.4 (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=231793)

Dooonerz November 1st, 2010 9:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tkallab (Post 6261952)
Draggy, what exactly about Milotic do you think makes him a dragon? Is it mostly the snake-like body, or the head with all its decorations?

My argumentation and reasons for Milotic being a dragon are in a post a couple of pages back, and i'm sure draggy would feel the same.

dragoniteuser November 1st, 2010 10:09 AM

Acctually if you check a couple of pages back, you'll notice that I'm "protecting" our thesis with everything I've got!

Xilfer November 1st, 2010 10:13 AM

Wouldn't it be funny if we could just ask the pokemon making....team....people.....
"Eats Halloween candy"

tkallab November 1st, 2010 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dooonerz;6257951[B
][/B]
First of all, let's compare designs to other dragons:

http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/1/1b/Spr_4d_384.png

http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/f/f0/Spr_4h_130_f.png


Rayquaza and Gyarados; two very respectable dragons.

Now let's look at Milotic:

http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/e/ea/Spr_4p_350_m.png


Do you guy's see the resemblance in the body? It is a long serpent body that coils, closely mimicking a dragon's (Gyarados + Rayquaza) body.



Really? Except for the fact that they both have long bodies with no arms, Milotic looks nothing like Gyarados. And the limbless pare doesn't even matter, because Rayquaza has arms. I believe Milotic might as well be a snake then, because Ekans, Arbok and Seviver also have long bodies! Heck, Milotic may even be made out of stone or steel, because Onix and Steelix also have long bodies!
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dooonerz;6257951[B
][/B]Now let's move on the moves it can learn:

Twister (Lv. 19)
Dragon Pulse (TM)
Dragon Breath (Egg Move)

Now it may be that only one move can be learnt by level up; but it doesn't take away the fact that this non dragon can learn three dragon moves.



I believe we've already established moves are no arguments. Pidgey also learns Twister, Kangaskhan learns Outrage and Lapras learns Dragonbreath.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dooonerz;6257951[B
][/B]Milotic could also be counted as a dragon because of it's rareness; like most dragons in Pokemon are.



Well, uhm... Just because he's rare, you call him a dragon? Ever tried catching a Munchlax? Or Entei?


Quote:

Originally Posted by Dooonerz;6257951[B
][/B]EDIT: Thought of another reason; Milotic also breeds with the dragon group. Charizard and Gyarados do as well, and they are considered dragons, so why not Milotic? :)

So are Ekans and Treecko. And Zuruggu.

dragoniteuser November 1st, 2010 10:54 AM

Now you're splitting hairs!
All theese Doonerz's statements are correct when put together, as they should be! Once you split them, you can write whatever you want!
But tell me, if Milotic is a Sea Serpent, name 2 reptilian asspects on Milotic. And don't even try to say that that blue/pink scales are teptilian scales, cause they're COMPLETLY different!

tkallab November 1st, 2010 10:56 AM

You're the one that has to prove Milotic is a sea serpent, because a sea serpent is a kind of dragon!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_serpent

dragoniteuser November 1st, 2010 11:00 AM

Perhaps sea serpents are kind of dragons, but I'm not quite sure about that!
But you kept saying that Milotic is a sea serpent and not a dragon. So if it isn't a sea serpent, what IS Milotic to you?

tkallab November 1st, 2010 11:06 AM

Didn't you believe surviving dragons might kind of look like that?

I think Milotic is either a sea snake (this is something completely different than a sea serpent), an eel or an oarfish. Oarfish seems the most likely, because it has those funky thingies on its head.

dragoniteuser November 1st, 2010 11:07 AM

I still do acctually!
But then answer my previous question: name 2 reptilian aspects of Milotic!

tkallab November 1st, 2010 11:16 AM

Okay, maybe not a snake. But how about an oarfish?
First of all, an oarfish is a really long fish that lives in the water. This is portrayed by Milotic at least evolving from a fish, having a long body and being a Water type.

Here's an oarfish.
http://etc.usf.edu/clipart/27200/27235/Oar-fish_27235_lg.gif

Imagine the strings under his head starting right above its eyes. Now also imagine that funky hairdo starting at the place where its fin is.

Owned.

dragoniteuser November 1st, 2010 11:18 AM

Sure, similarities exist, but still, does Milotic really look like a fish to you?

tkallab November 1st, 2010 11:19 AM

More than a dragon, to say the least.

What are your similarities between Milotic and a dragon?

Dooonerz November 1st, 2010 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tkallab (Post 6262130)
Really? Except for the fact that they both have long bodies with no arms, Milotic looks nothing like Gyarados. And the limbless pare doesn't even matter, because Rayquaza has arms. I believe Milotic might as well be a snake then, because Ekans, Arbok and Seviver also have long bodies! Heck, Milotic may even be made out of stone or steel, because Onix and Steelix also have long bodies!

That may be, but I'm not comparing facial features or colour scheme; I'm talking about the body; not the arms or any other part. Just the way it compares in coils to Gyarados, Dragonair and kinda Rayquaza. And I'm also not saying that just because Milotic has a long coiling body it should be in the Dragon's Den. It also ties in with other arguments/points that I made that could create it into a potential Dragon's Den member.

dragoniteuser November 1st, 2010 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tkallab (Post 6262186)
More than a dragon, to say the least.

What are your similarities between Milotic and a dragon?

Mithology, complexity, mystic background, inner strenght, rareness, general apperance, serenity(yes, this is dragon aspect),...
Yet, you still haven't answered my question, and this is the 3rd time I'm trying to convince you to answer them! Are you avoiding it?

tkallab November 1st, 2010 11:39 AM

Your questions were "Name two reptilian aspects of Milotic" and "Does Milotic look like a fish to you". I gave up on Milotic being a reptile, and told you several reasons why Milotic is an oarfish.
And yes, Milotic looks like a fish to me.

dragoniteuser November 1st, 2010 1:04 PM

Maybe you'll change your ming after this.
It's only fate that this page occure when I was reading manga, and the Pokemon's appereance was most timely!
Tell me in this picture, does Milotic stll look like just a fish, or like something much more?!


tkallab November 1st, 2010 1:20 PM

Oh my god, that looks kind of like Lugia...

I was just thinking I would definitely agree if Milotic had arms, then I was like "Dragonair and Gyarados don't have arms", so yeah... Well played, good sir. You win.

Time Guardian November 1st, 2010 1:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tkallab (Post 6262182)
Okay, maybe not a snake. But how about an oarfish?
First of all, an oarfish is a really long fish that lives in the water. This is portrayed by Milotic at least evolving from a fish, having a long body and being a Water type.

Here's an oarfish.
(Large image goes here)

Imagine the strings under his head starting right above its eyes. Now also imagine that funky hairdo starting at the place where its fin is.

Owned.

Even so, from what I've read, it's possiable that the tales of Sea Serpents/ Sea Dragons came from people's misconceptions of the Oarfish. The fish may not be a literal "dragon" now that it has been studied up-close and everything; but there's a chance that not only Milotic would be based on the animal itself, but also have traits based upon the sea dragon/serpent stories from back then integrated with it.

I will admit, in that manga page, Milotic has a more majestic, dragony look befitting of a dragonair. So the portrayal of that in the manga may of been intentional to make it seem like a dragon in a way as well.

tkallab November 1st, 2010 1:55 PM

...Thank you, Time Guardian!
I got kind of carried away when I saw Milotic like that. I blame his smile.
So yeah, I would definitely think Milotic was a dragon if he had arms. The point is, he doesn't, because he's an oarfish. And fishes don't have arms.

And I have to confess, I always type oatfish before realising that's wrong, for some reason.

dragoniteuser November 1st, 2010 2:20 PM

So when the time to vote finally comes, what's your vote regarding Milotic gonna be tkallab?

Amore November 1st, 2010 2:28 PM

Yes, the manga made Milotic look dragoney (that storyline involving Ruby and Mimi is one of my favourites), but it also looks kinda fishy...like Gyarados still has a resemblance to Magikarp! xD

So....certainly looks like Milotic is a hot topic. I'll leave you guys to argue until Saturday, then probably start.

EDIT: Tkallab, keep your vote secret! They'll remain that way....but no matter how you put it, it'll influence people, so don't

dragoniteuser November 1st, 2010 2:29 PM

So the voting didn't start yet?

tkallab November 1st, 2010 2:32 PM

It's gonna be no. To me, Milotic is an oarfish with some dragon traits. But 'some dragon traits' aren't enough to get Milotic in this club for me. It wasn't enough for Tyranitar either. I don't regret that either, and I'm trying to be consistent.

No overdramatic final lawyer speech this time, sorry.

Didn't notice you saying that, Amore. Note that this is my opinion and not my vote. Although those two usually are greatly related... Haha!

Amore November 1st, 2010 3:02 PM

Ok...so, just to confirm The voting hasn't started.

This argument's getting close to the length of Lugia, so I'm calling it to a close here. Further Milotic-based arguments must take place via pm/vm/not making up your whole post.

We will vote on Milotic.

Ok, so, Tkallab mentioned it, let's see what the general consensus is on voting about...Tyranitar.

http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/thumb/8/82/248Tyranitar.png/155px-248Tyranitar.png
http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/5/5c/Spr_5b_248.pnghttp://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/4/4f/Spr_b_g5_248.png






Disclaimer: Anybody who thinks I may favour tkallab and dragoniteuser, take note - They post more than me and Silhouette put together, and we're the owners!

Time Guardian November 1st, 2010 3:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tkallab (Post 6262556)
And I have to confess, I always type oatfish before realising that's wrong, for some reason.

Oatfish...oh god, >_< Now I need to get that mental image out of my mind somehow before it ends up becoming something...very strange.

Anyways, first thing people will say on T-tar, he doesn't have wings. Not all dragons needs to have wings in order to be a dragon. Although i still need to do some comparisons and such to fully form an opinion on T-tar here. But I will admit, T-tar does make me think of Godzilla for some reason. (Oh hey, there's an idea for something when I get the time.)


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