The PokéCommunity Forums

The PokéCommunity Forums (https://www.pokecommunity.com/index.php)
-   Off-Topic (https://www.pokecommunity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=23)
-   -   Can certain subjects REALLY can be debated? (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=237409)

Headfirst For Halos November 24th, 2010 1:08 PM

Can certain subjects REALLY can be debated?
 
As we've all know and witnessed, some debates turn ugly in forums, social networking websites, and even the outside world. Is it worth debating certain subjects such as religion and politics when in the end, nothing but ad hominems and other common fallacies become the norm in the debate?

Discuss.

Stratos99 November 24th, 2010 1:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Headfirst For Halos (Post 6305915)
As we've all know and witnessed, some debates turn ugly in forums, social networking websites, and even the outside world. Is it worth debating certain subjects such as religion and politics when in the end, nothing but ad hominems and other common fallacies become the norm in the debate?

Discuss.

Any subject that has two sides to it can be debated, it's up to the discretion of the forum/social network/real world whether or not to allow it. Religious and political debates can turn ugly but that doesn't mean they will, but even when they do that's no reason for the discussions to be banned like they previously were on pc because there are still people who contribute to the topic in a civil manner as opposed to resorting to ad hominem.

Then again any 'flaming' or 'arguing' I've seen on pc can hardly be called that, rather it's an exaggeration by the community so I don't think this place should ever worry about banning topics. Deleting the 'offending' posts is a better solution that allows for others to further discuss and debate the topic at hand.

As for the real world, what can you do but agree to disagree? I don't think there's any way to censor the discussions under a democratic government (applies to myself) and there shouldn't be. We just have to live with the fact that not everybody is as level headed as we want them to be and move on with our lives.

Headfirst For Halos November 24th, 2010 1:34 PM

I know what you're saying about "being level-headed and moving on" [that's what I do myself, I CANNOT stand people fighting over a topic like 5 year olds].
Also, I've never meant to mention PC... this is only my... second day here or so. I said "in general", I apologize for not clarifying myself.
Sometimes, heavy moderation of the topics does not work, because everyone has their opinions. Then another such thread opens up months later, and the same thing happens. It gets redundant and dull, IMO.

poopnoodle November 24th, 2010 1:38 PM

when it comes to broad topics like the ones you've mentioned, there will always be grey areas- the truth is, these things can't have definitive answers and will always be up for speculation. debates may incite some strong emotions at times, and although some people have a hard time handling those emotions and become irrational, those strong emotions are what makes debating such a wonderful thing. debating stimulates the brain, and just because in the end there might not be a 'winner' there's always a chance someone has been enlightened.

Stratos99 November 24th, 2010 1:41 PM

I'm sure you didn't but I found it was relevant to bring up with the somewhat recent allowance of mature topics again.

Headfirst For Halos November 24th, 2010 1:43 PM

Only if people realize if those subjects have people on both sides, or even [gasp] on the fence, and can most of the time cannot change their opinion. But such is the world and humans such as myself.
Strong emotions are wonderful, but people utilize them in the wrong way [bringing others down for their opinon], IMO. Whatever floats in their boat.

Captain Fabio November 24th, 2010 1:44 PM

What you have to take into consideration is that people are immature and don't take things seriously.

This is why they get out of hand and can end up in flaming.

I have spoken about many sensitive topics to my friends and other people that are mature and they never end up in flaming or argument.

Just pick your friends to talk to.

ANARCHit3cht November 24th, 2010 1:46 PM

Every subject can be debated, but not every debater can debate every subject.

poopnoodle November 24th, 2010 1:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Headfirst For Halos (Post 6305983)
Only if people realize if those subjects have people on both sides, or even [gasp] on the fence, and can most of the time cannot change their opinion. But such is the world and humans such as myself.
Strong emotions are wonderful, but people utilize them in the wrong way [bringing others down for their opinon], IMO. Whatever floats in their boat.

of course they do. it's human nature to let emotions get the best of us, and through practice is how we grow. it's a learning process.

Shanghai Alice November 24th, 2010 9:56 PM

Life, politics, religion, the economy...

None of that will be settled over forum posts.

However, humans love conflict, despite what people say to the contrary. So...

PlatinumDude November 24th, 2010 10:09 PM

While there are some subjects that have been widely debated, some subjects shouldn't even be debated in the first place.

Bologna November 24th, 2010 10:39 PM

If in debating such issues someone enlightens another, even if it's just one other, to a thought that they hadn't considered before, then it could be worth it in the end.

You're not going to change everyone, and many people are not willing to budge on what they believe, but some people are. Even if you don't get another person to completely change their mind, but instead get them to think on the issue more, it's worth it in the end. Debate brings forth thought, and if people only ever debate the little things, how can anything ever progress?

In a way, it's sort of like the whole "If you don't vote, you have no reason to complain with how things are because you did nothing to provide your own input". Well, if no one is ever willing to debate the 'bigger' subjects, they can not expect other people to see their side of things and they can not complain about what others are saying, because they are unwilling to discuss their own thoughts.

Kura November 24th, 2010 10:54 PM

It's worth it when you know that the people you are debating with respects your opinion and are able to be mature about expressing their viewpoint.

Melody November 24th, 2010 11:04 PM

With enough maturity on both sides, ANYTHING CAN BE DEBATED, but that isn't always the case.

It boils down to what the topic really is. Some people simply cannot peacefully debate certain topics, because they feel so strongly about their viewpoint that ANY opposing viewpoint is garbage to them in some way or another. Emotions are illogical and always will be.

Idiot! November 24th, 2010 11:20 PM

Everything can be debated, but not everyone can (handle a) debate. There are people who are too narrow-minded to realise everyone has a right to have an opinion.

LightOfTruth November 25th, 2010 6:14 AM

Other Chat is for having a debate that is not pokemon :)

Elite Overlord LeSabre™ November 25th, 2010 7:06 AM

"Is there a Quality Inn located in Gaffney, South Carolina?"
"Is 41 divisible by 5?"
^ Non-debatable topics.

As for those sensitive topics, it all comes down to who's involved in the debate. Some people can be mature about the subject, some cannot. Some get overly emotional and passionate when something in a debate hits them especially hard. And that's when they start resembling flame-wars, insults begin being thrown, and claims starting being made with no facts to substantiate them. And unfortunately, it only takes one person to turn a reasonable, civilized debate into utter chaos.

Corvus of the Black Night November 25th, 2010 8:51 AM

^You could actually argue the latter subject, relying on the definition divisible". For example, for the latter example, you could argue that, yes it is and you get 8.2, or your could argue no because you get a remainder and thus it isn't divisible - depending on whether or not you consider a remainder to be acceptable in division or not, the response changes dramatically. (actually you could do the former if you were refering to an inn of quality, or a Quality Inn as in the hotel chain)

I think certain arguments, deep within their core, are nothing but opinion-based arguments, like those based within religion. I can't help but request more than someone's personal beliefs to back them up, and thus I believe that such arguments are better left untouched without some serious scientific and universally-accepted evidence.

Gardenia101 November 27th, 2010 8:07 AM

I don't see this going anywhere.


Anyway, the point of debate is so that everyone sees every point of view, so in my opinion, most of these conversations are much more productive than threads like "Do you think the starter's English names suck?"

Corvus of the Black Night November 27th, 2010 10:47 AM

This thread sounds a lot more like an opinion thread rather than a debate. There IS no debate really because some people will argue that everything can be debated, while others cannot be, and it all depends on where they draw their line of logic - none of which is really wrong.

Hey! Look! A subject that can't be debated! lol

poopnoodle November 27th, 2010 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gardenia101
I don't see this going anywhere.

where was this thread supposed to be going, and why belittle it as if it's pointless? it's a perfectly valid subject to bring up, and it gives inexperienced and passionate debaters something to consider.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corvidae (Post 6311688)
This thread sounds a lot more like an opinion thread rather than a debate. There IS no debate really because some people will argue that everything can be debated, while others cannot be, and it all depends on where they draw their line of logic - none of which is really wrong.

no one ever claimed this was a debate thread, it seems the poster was trying to draw opinions- and that he did, successfully. debates are a natural part of discussion. discussion involves the exchanging of opinions, and debates are the point in said discussion where opposing opinions are exchanged. contrary to the popular conception and the understanding of debates you've shown here, debates are not right vs. wrong, debates are simply an exchange of opinions- and i think we all agree that it's distasteful when a debate turns into a back-and-forth mudslinging. everything involving opinions can and will be debated, that is a natural and absolute truth (that is, unless we're forced to keep our opinions to ourselves). the only aspect of this topic without an established answer is whether or not there is a right or wrong side to a debated topic.

Corvus of the Black Night December 4th, 2010 3:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poopnoodle (Post 6311812)
no one ever claimed this was a debate thread, it seems the poster was trying to draw opinions- and that he did, successfully. debates are a natural part of discussion. discussion involves the exchanging of opinions, and debates are the point in said discussion where opposing opinions are exchanged. contrary to the popular conception and the understanding of debates you've shown here, debates are not right vs. wrong, debates are simply an exchange of opinions- and i think we all agree that it's distasteful when a debate turns into a back-and-forth mudslinging. everything involving opinions can and will be debated, that is a natural and absolute truth (that is, unless we're forced to keep our opinions to ourselves). the only aspect of this topic without an established answer is whether or not there is a right or wrong side to a debated topic.

Odd, I was arguing with the same evidence the exact opposite point... which is just more proof that a "true debate" cannot be formed... because there's more than one way to look at the same information.

aguinn99 December 4th, 2010 3:23 PM

Anything can be debated, as long as everyone is mature enough to handle the debate and take things seriously. If everyone can do that, then anything can be debated.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire December 4th, 2010 3:35 PM

I agree anything can be debated, even Pokemon starters names can be debated...

Purple_Haze December 4th, 2010 4:15 PM

I can debate almost anything... If they call names I just ignore the names and focus on the point being made; calling names back only makes it worse. If it turns into soley a name calling thing I just leave.

The only things I can not debate and refuse to debate racist people and holocaust deniers. Hate does not need a reason. Why should I reason with hate?


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 5:43 PM.


Like our Facebook Page Follow us on Twitter © 2002 - 2018 The PokéCommunity™, pokecommunity.com.
Pokémon characters and images belong to The Pokémon Company International and Nintendo. This website is in no way affiliated with or endorsed by Nintendo, Creatures, GAMEFREAK, The Pokémon Company or The Pokémon Company International. We just love Pokémon.
All forum styles, their images (unless noted otherwise) and site designs are © 2002 - 2016 The PokéCommunity / PokéCommunity.com.
PokéCommunity™ is a trademark of The PokéCommunity. All rights reserved. Sponsor advertisements do not imply our endorsement of that product or service. User generated content remains the property of its creator.

Acknowledgements
Use of PokéCommunity Assets
vB Optimise by DragonByte Technologies Ltd © 2023.