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-   -   Do video series count as legitimate hacks? (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=240281)

TamashiiHiroka January 3rd, 2011 5:53 PM

Do video series count as legitimate hacks?
 
I just joined a few minutes ago, so please forgive me if I make any faux pass. I just had a question for you guys who seem pretty dedicated to Pokemon hacking.

When you think of hacking, most people usually think of making your own game. New towns, characters, sometimes even new Pokemon, etc. But say that's not what you like to do. Say you like to create videos and tell stories by recording clips of your hack? Do you consider this just as demanding and skillful as making a new version? Is it as creative?

Please let me know!

altariaking January 4th, 2011 5:23 PM

Sort of. If you can tell the story well through a rom, then yeah, it could be as or more creative. However, making an actual hacked game does require more than that. It requires the creativity you would use in videos as well as many other things like being able to script and map and sprite. However, without that much creativity, your rom hack would be nothing. So I'd say...kinda. :\ I mean, you would need to have a really good imagination to tell a story with a rom but you'd need more than that to make a rom hack that you can release, although the storymajig would show it a lot more...
Yeah I don't know what I'm talking about either -_-'

Ninja Caterpie January 4th, 2011 5:39 PM

Hey, you're that awesome girl from Youtube! They might not count as such "legitimate hacks", but they require the same stuff and are just as awesome if pulled off well.

Vrai January 4th, 2011 7:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja Caterpie (Post 6381079)
Hey, you're that girl from Youtube! They might not count as such "legitimate hacks", but they require the same stuff and are just as awesome if pulled off well.

Agreed entirely.

Also I seem to remember learning how to map from one of your videos. ;;

edit: I'm not exactly sure why you're asking if it would be a "legitimate" hack or not, either. It'd be cool and unique, and the fact that it is different would probably be enough to make it in my eyes. Plus, it seems like it'd be just as challenging as a regular hack for you to do, anyway.

destinedjagold January 4th, 2011 10:17 PM

Hi Tamashii. If you can't remember me, I was the one who asked your permission if I could include you as a rival in my Reign of Legends hack a few years ago.
I'm a bit surprised to see you in this forum.

Anyway, for me (it's only my personal opinion), I think it's both a yes and a no.
Everyone already said the "yes" part, but lemme explain why I also said "no"...

For me, a legitimate hack/mod is where we as players can play your work.

colcolstyles January 4th, 2011 11:12 PM

It depends on your definition of "legitimate". Yes, you're modifying the game and creating a brand new world with a new story line and characters. But, at the same time, there's no gameplay because there is no "player". With a hack that you release to the public, you have to take into account that the player's input is unpredictable so you have to prepare for every possible action. This includes inserting broken brides (which, depending on the layout of your world, can be a very intricate process), giving text to every single NPC, including proper checks if the player (for example) loses a battle, making sure the player never gets trapped anywhere, etc. So I guess that I would say they aren't "legitimate" by my definition but that doesn't mean that they aren't enjoyable or that they don't take effort (just not as much).

Alice January 5th, 2011 11:48 AM

I've watched all of your hack videos, and have a series of my own, but I wouldn't call it "legitimate hacking." It's a different category all its own imo. It's certainly not anywhere near as difficult as making a real hack, but creativity depends entirely on the video/hack in question.

I think it would be fair to allow people to post video hack series in the Let's Play section though, if that's what you were looking to do. You might want to ask Yuoaman.

TamashiiHiroka January 5th, 2011 3:25 PM

Yikes, I guess I should check this thing more often. As it happens I'm kind of not all down with how quotes work on this site yet, but I'll reply in the best way I can.

@Vrai: The reason I'm asking is just out of curiousity, to see if I really had any right to try in post in this section if I technically don't know what I'm talking about. I also wanted to see what people preferred so I could know which direction to take my own hacks.

@destinedjagold: Of course I remember you, and if I remember right, I hear you're pretty well known now too =) Congrats on all your success.

@QuilavaKing: I wasn't thinking of posting my own hacks anywhere around on this forum if thats what you mean. Thanks for the advice though.

Ninja Caterpie January 5th, 2011 3:29 PM

I have to point out, the wording here is important.

What you do is legitimate hacking (well, legit as far as this forum is concerned), even if you don't create legitimate hacks. You have as much right, as a legitimate hacker (and quite an experienced one, at that), to post here as anyone else.

BTW at the bottom of a post there are a couple of buttons. hover over them and you'll see. "Reply with quote" basically replies to the thread while quoting that post. "Multi-quote" puts the post onto a queue so when you next press the normal quote button you'll have all the quotes in the one reply. You can also use the BB cod [quote].

TamashiiHiroka January 5th, 2011 3:35 PM

Hooray! Now I know how to quote!

I'm glad theres a difference between a legitimate hacker and making legitimate hacks. While reading through some of the posts here I thought I might be in a different league as far as content goes and I wasn't sure if this was the right place to be. But as long as what I do is generally acceptable, I'll stick around =)

Vrai January 5th, 2011 3:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TamashiiHiroka (Post 6382545)
Yikes, I guess I should check this thing more often. As it happens I'm kind of not all down with how quotes work on this site yet, but I'll reply in the best way I can.

@Vrai: The reason I'm asking is just out of curiousity, to see if I really had any right to try in post in this section if I technically don't know what I'm talking about. I also wanted to see what people preferred so I could know which direction to take my own hacks.


Well, plenty of people post in this section that have no idea what they're talking about. :)

In all honesty, though, I'm unsure of where you'd post the thread if you were going to create a hack-story. It could possibly go in the Let's Play section like someone else suggested, but it could also go somewhere in Hacks Showcase since you are, indeed, hacking...

destinedjagold January 5th, 2011 6:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vrai (Post 6382576)
In all honesty, though, I'm unsure of where you'd post the thread if you were going to create a hack-story.

If that's the case, then maybe a new section should be implemented for Hack-Story categories? I've seen a lot of those on YouTube.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TamashiiHiroka (Post 6382545)
@destinedjagold: Of course I remember you, and if I remember right, I hear you're pretty well known now too =) Congrats on all your success.

Thanks.
Well known, probably, but not the best around~
zel is still the most well-known hacker/modder around!

mew_nani January 10th, 2011 9:37 AM

I have no idea on this one.
If you make a video series, you DO edit the game in the sense of editing what people say, their actions, maybe even what towns, Pokemon, and people look like.
But there's still the issue of not being able to play the game for yourself. I happen to be making a hack series on Youtube, but I would guess that it doesn't count as a true "Hack" in the sense that not every NPC or event is changed, that everything still looks pretty similar to the base game, and that no one can play through it. I guess it's a gray area.

Rayce January 12th, 2011 8:05 PM

Okay I just looked up your youtube channel and I'd definitely say yes.
By definition you had to hack the game to make those and it had to take at least as much talent is not more than any of the hackers making ROMs(The few I watched seemed like they must have taken hours out of your life... That is not an insult, I mean you are determined)

Alice January 12th, 2011 8:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rayce (Post 6395543)
it had to take at least as much talent if not more than any of the hackers making ROMs

lolno.

No offense to anyone who makes hack videos (I do myself, in fact.) but it's not anywhere near as time consuming/difficult as hacking to make an actual game.

HackinJohn January 12th, 2011 9:05 PM

I, personally, think that making a game is much, much harder and much, much more rewarding than writing and hacking a machinima video, which is what I try to define my hack shows as. However, I think that making shows is a lot more fun and a lot less stressful, as you don't have to worry about flags and such. In my newest hack shows, I have been incorporating level scripts and regular scripts, which makes it a lot more like the hacking I do with games. But, when you are making a video, players never see all the editing you do behind the scenes to make your show come out perfectly (I do a LOT of behind the scenes editing). I think that shows are a type of hacking, but show-hacking is not in the same league of difficulty as game-hacking.

Rayce January 13th, 2011 4:43 PM

Okay I see I caused some opposition with that statement, let me clarify.
I mean as a whole, I am not comparing a single video to a entire new hack (I'm not that stupid). Look at it this way; she makes a whole bunch of short videos, where as a ROM hacker making a new version makes usually one(I know some people have 2 and/or work on other projects). You can put in your own opinions on who does more work and sorry I was unclear before. Both types are fun

NatureKeeper January 14th, 2011 11:57 PM

A legitimate hack here should be only available if people actually do play it, like Jagold said.

I guess these hack shows should be allowed in the Sideshow Showcase, though.

I'd say you can PM a Mod to suggest that rule. But it's better off here to make a game. Like, based on The Hack's Storyline and everything.

machomuu January 20th, 2011 3:55 PM

Geez Tamashii... took you a while to join. Honestly, ever since I saw your video hacks years ago I've been thinking about it as well (I'm a long time fan; in fact, you're part of the reason I got into hacking).

I don't think the hacks are legitimate, however that doesn't mean it's not still hacking. You're still using hacking tools to create your awesome videos, but the only reason I would say they're not legit is because they are not meant to be played but to be watched, so I wouldn't really call them hacks, but it is still hacking.

Lady Berlitz January 25th, 2011 5:28 PM

I wouldn't call it a 'game', seeing as they aren't playable, or even downloadable for that matter. They're for entertainment. But looking at your videos, I can definitely call them 'full-fledge' hacks. They not be as time-consuming, rewarding, or difficult to make, but they have characters, they have a storyline, a setting, etc. It's based on opinion, seemingly.

machomuu January 27th, 2011 2:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Berlitz (Post 6418295)
I wouldn't call it a 'game', seeing as they aren't playable, or even downloadable for that matter. They're for entertainment. But looking at your videos, I can definitely call them 'full-fledge' hacks. They not be as time-consuming, rewarding, or difficult to make, but they have characters, they have a storyline, a setting, etc. It's based on opinion, seemingly.

I wouldn't say full-fledged. They don't usually have inserted music or events, as that stuff is usually done via movie maker, and don't usually use hex or most of the hacking programs used to make playable hacks.

Zeffy January 29th, 2011 6:30 AM

I've watched and enjoyed your video series but as far as hacking is concerned, it is a hack. The only difference between your video series and hacks in here is that yours is purely for entertainment while the hacks here are for the enjoyment of the players.

chillj February 2nd, 2011 12:49 PM

Cool hack videos, they're awesome. I think the videos would count as a legitimate hack. You still have to script and map and text and all that other good stuff. I'd say it would sort of count... It'd be cool if you released a playable hack on this site. Good luck with hack videos and whatnot

TamashiiHiroka February 2nd, 2011 2:28 PM

Ah, sorry for the buildup of unacknowledged posts! I don't check in here very often. So now lemme get back to you all...

I'm glad the general consensus is that they're legitimate hacks, even if they're not an entire hacked game. However, some of you mentioned that while my videos are for entertaining an audience, your hacks are for players to have fun playing. Basically, we all have the same goal, to provide the Pokemon community with something to enjoy in one form or another. Perhaps my videos may not be as interactive and submersible as an entire hacked game may be, but they also allow for a more tailored experience. My commenters can tell me moments after watching the video what they enjoyed and what they didn't. For a full fledged hack, you can't change the game as they're playing it, and it may take a while before feedback arrives from people you have testing your game.

All in all, yes, I admit my videos take much less effort than creating a game. I've attempted to do this myself for fun many times, never planning to release it or announce it to anyone. It always proved too difficult for me, so I've always admired those who have the persistence to completely change every aspect of the game. That's not to say though that I don't put in the most effort I can creating every video. Usually most of my challenge comes through editing the video, not creating the footage. Every time I re-watch one of my videos and I notice an error it annoys me to no end. I try to make each episode perfect.

So each form has its pros and cons. I wasn't planning on posting any of my hacks here, for those who were telling me that I shouldn't. I was simply curious as to what you all thought about hack video series in general. :)

Corvus of the Black Night February 3rd, 2011 4:35 AM

Of course it's a hack, the person is hacking the game to make it tell a story. A playable hack on the other hand... that kind of hack isn't a hack I'd see distributed as a patch or a game. But it's still hacked.


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