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-   -   FireRed Pokémon: Liquid Crystal [3.3.xxxxx Live Beta] (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=242023)

Cyclone October 2nd, 2012 4:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alienhunterx (Post 7359736)
As far as I know, Amnesia raises users Sp. def

You are correct.

It's actually not as bad as moves like "Harden", strangely, as most moves I use early on are Physical. I will use Special moves at higher levels.

Cyclone

Sofnyx October 2nd, 2012 4:49 AM

Yeah it used it and my fly and dragon claw became weaker maybe the E4 could just be on a whole new level

Satoshi Ookami October 2nd, 2012 5:03 AM

Then that's probably bug in your version. If Amnesia really weakened DC then it's clearly a Special based move.

Sofnyx October 2nd, 2012 5:33 AM

yeah thats why i raged i have an adamant dragon team and my physical moves do special dmg ;/

Jambo51 October 2nd, 2012 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sofnyx (Post 7359862)
yeah thats why i raged i have an adamant dragon team and my physical moves do special dmg ;/

What version of LC are you using? There was a bug in 3.1 where what you're saying happened, but it should've been fixed.

The whole Physical/Special split is to be overhauled in the near future in any case, so hopefully that will help fix this and the other bugs known to exist, but it's not something we plan to do at the drop of a hat, because it needs to be made obvious to you guys, the players. It's likely something we will do before the release of RC1, potentially later this year.

My point, in any case, wasn't that you were wrong about a potential bug, it was that you were wrong about the moves being categorised wrongly, which they are not. I hope you understand where I'm coming from with that statement. :)

Sofnyx October 2nd, 2012 10:35 AM

Yeah I get you and it's 3.1 I'm playing I don't want to raise my adamant extremespeed dratini only to find its bugged and weak as a feebas....

Jambo51 October 2nd, 2012 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sofnyx (Post 7360031)
Yeah I get you and it's 3.1 I'm playing I don't want to raise my adamant extremespeed dratini only to find its bugged and weak as a feebas....

Yeah, that was a bug which existed in 3.1's release, but was fixed shortly after said release. 3.2 doesn't have that bug, and also has cleaned up many of the other bugs in the game.

Satoshi Ookami October 2nd, 2012 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sofnyx (Post 7360031)
Yeah I get you and it's 3.1 I'm playing I don't want to raise my adamant extremespeed dratini only to find its bugged and weak as a feebas....

Then patch new ROM with 3.2 patch and use your 3.1 save that has the Adamant Dragons you are so proud of.

XeroNos October 3rd, 2012 1:21 AM

Yeah please do fix bug of that move tutor in Golden Rod city too. Many people have complained about him too.. you know he does not teaches you Dragon Claw any more if you beat the Elites already...

Jambo51 October 3rd, 2012 5:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ash493 (Post 7360582)
Then patch new ROM with 3.2 patch and use your 3.1 save that has the Adamant Dragons you are so proud of.

You can't do this, the game won't let you, it deletes the game save as soon as you load it up. Don't attempt to get round it using savestates, because you will find everything is screwed up if you do.

He'll just have to go through the buggy 3.1, and accept that the move damage calculations aren't right, or start a brand new game on 3.2.

Hound of Justice October 3rd, 2012 1:36 PM

Hello does this hack have unown dex

XeroNos October 4th, 2012 1:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElitePokes (Post 7361110)
Hello does this hack have unown dex

No my good friend I am afraid its not. No matter how many Unowns you catch the dex will show only 1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jambo51 (Post 7360799)
You can't do this, the game won't let you, it deletes the game save as soon as you load it up. Don't attempt to get round it using savestates, because you will find everything is screwed up if you do.

He'll just have to go through the buggy 3.1, and accept that the move damage calculations aren't right, or start a brand new game on 3.2.

I doubt that Jambo. Because I used the old save from 3.1 to play the cave of wisdom in 3.2

Satoshi Ookami October 4th, 2012 1:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jambo51 (Post 7360799)
You can't do this, the game won't let you, it deletes the game save as soon as you load it up. Don't attempt to get round it using savestates, because you will find everything is screwed up if you do.

He'll just have to go through the buggy 3.1, and accept that the move damage calculations aren't right, or start a brand new game on 3.2.

Ouchie... didn't know that o.O So 3.1 and 3.2 are that different... I can't imagine that...
If he saves in any PC and goes out, everything should be changed...

Cyclone October 4th, 2012 6:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ash493 (Post 7361538)
Ouchie... didn't know that o.O So 3.1 and 3.2 are that different... I can't imagine that...
If he saves in any PC and goes out, everything should be changed...

I'll agree with that. I've done some fixing and mucking around to another hack and copied it in while save-stated in the PC. I change ROMs and back and head outside, and the changes take effect immediately. My only guesses are that's not 3.1 OR the single area is so vastly different. Save state in a PC then change around and see what happens.

Cyclone

Jambo51 October 4th, 2012 7:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alienhunterx (Post 7361522)
No my good friend I am afraid its not. No matter how many Unowns you catch the dex will show only 1

Actually, we are working on an Unown Dex. I shan't say any more right now however.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alienhunterx (Post 7361522)
I doubt that Jambo. Because I used the old save from 3.1 to play the cave of wisdom in 3.2

More fool you then. As one of the developers, I can 100% assure you that Beta 3.1 is NOT compatible with 3.2. Ignore my warnings at your own peril, and don't whine about events not working when they inevitably break, because we gave you all fair warning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CycloneGU (Post 7361661)
I'll agree with that. I've done some fixing and mucking around to another hack and copied it in while save-stated in the PC. I change ROMs and back and head outside, and the changes take effect immediately. My only guesses are that's not 3.1 OR the single area is so vastly different. Save state in a PC then change around and see what happens.

Cyclone

No listen to me, it's a more fundamental change than that. It's down to repointing vars/flags to a completely new memory location. If you use the in game save (which you should all be doing, because savestates can cause bugs!), the game refuses to load your save. If you go round it using savestates, don't expect help from us when it inevitably breaks!

One final time, a beta 3.1 save is in No way usable on beta 3.2. Stop asking if it is possible, and stop advising people that it is, because it is NOT

miksy91 October 4th, 2012 8:32 AM

I don't know whether you've done this but wouldn't it be a good idea to share information on how to make beta 3.1 save file compatible with 3.2 rom file? Yeah, you probably don't want anyone to know how to hack flags that easily but for the ones who'd like to continue with their old save file, this thing would come in handy (especially, if wanting to continue with beta 3.1 save file with beta 4).

Once again, more assumptions here based on what you told in your latest post which makes it feel possible and user-friendly to be done... If you did more than changing the ram locations where the flag bits and variables are saved, doing this won't of course work nicely enough.

Heck, you don't have to answer me if you feel annoyed by seeing me pointing this out now. But I'm just saying it because with GB, such thing done with WRAM wouldn't be so bad it couldn't be done (even by a beginner with a step-by-step tutorial).

Jambo51 October 4th, 2012 9:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miksy91 (Post 7361712)
I don't know whether you've done this but wouldn't it be a good idea to share information on how to make beta 3.1 save file compatible with 3.2 rom file? Yeah, you probably don't want anyone to know how to hack flags that easily but for the ones who'd like to continue with their old save file, this thing would come in handy (especially, if wanting to continue with beta 3.1 save file with beta 4).

Once again, more assumptions here based on what you told in your latest post which makes it feel possible and user-friendly to be done... If you did more than changing the ram locations where the flag bits and variables are saved, doing this won't of course work nicely enough.

Heck, you don't have to answer me if you feel annoyed by seeing me pointing this out now. But I'm just saying it because with GB, such thing done with WRAM wouldn't be so bad it couldn't be done (even by a beginner with a step-by-step tutorial).

Believe me, it's not something we can do. We moved a huge portion of the flags/variables/trainerflags into a brand new memory location, and the reason that this makes 3.1 incompatible with 3.2 is that it essentially "resets" all variables and flags so that they're all set to 0 (because the previous memory location, where the "correct" value for the variable is stored is no longer used.

With the trainerflags, they all get set to beaten.

As you can see, this is obviously problematic, since it causes events to break and trainers to be useless in game. There's no good way to copy the old values over into the new locations. Besides which, it's advisable to play 3.2 from the start again anyway because 3.2 contains myriad fixes for little bugs you may have triggered otherwise.

Believe me when I say we thought long and hard about introducing the new variables, but we decided it'd be worth it since it would all but eradicate most of the flag/variable corruption issues. 3.2 runs far more reliably than 3.1 ever did due to the memory hacks we implemented. We came to the conclusion that it'd be all but impossible to actually implement some sort of conversion.

I hope that helps explain my stance from above.

miksy91 October 4th, 2012 9:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jambo51 (Post 7361725)
Believe me when I say we thought long and hard about introducing the new variables, but we decided it'd be worth it since it would all but eradicate most of the flag/variable corruption issues. 3.2 runs far more reliably than 3.1 ever did due to the memory hacks we implemented. We came to the conclusion that it'd be all but impossible to actually implement some sort of conversion.

That makes a lot of sense actually. Overall, doing that was a good idea although you probably wanted to keep the latest versions as compatible with the newest one as possible but sometimes, it just isn't worth it. I've ran into this issue multiple times myself too, haven't just had to do as dramatic change as you've done here to break the compability before.

Spoiler:
For instance, recently I just added a hack for making it possible to rename third main character in my hack. Well, I got it working and the script saves that person's name in a certain ram location. This isn't done in the newest available version though so if the players continued with that save and got into an event where this person is referred to, the game would freeze if I didn't use unused memory area where another copy of the main hero's name is stored. Won't work the way intended but freezing prevented hahha :D

Cyclone October 4th, 2012 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jambo51 (Post 7361692)
No listen to me, it's a more fundamental change than that. It's down to repointing vars/flags to a completely new memory location. If you use the in game save (which you should all be doing, because savestates cause bugs!), the game refuses to load your save. If you go round it using savestates, don't expect help from us when it inevitably breaks!

One final time, a beta 3.1 save is in No way usable on beta 3.2. Stop asking if it is possible, and stop advising people that it is, because it is NOT

I know my original post didn't state clearly what I meant (as I was editing the same version of that ROM to get into unreachable areas of the map to - well - map, not changing versions). I have played around in a map editor and know some of the functions in it, and how to move scripts and sprites around, and change where one can walk (things I would typically use to fix bugs), and even change weather and map names, not to mention find all sorts of useful items for writing walkthroughs if I take that upon myself. I'm presently making map-based corrections in that hack as I find them (while writing a walkthrough) and may propose having the changes released sometime when I'm finished. So my prior comment comes from that experience.

So for what I really meant to ask here. If a player saves the game (using the in-game save) while inside a Pokémon Center, will it not be read in 3.2 and lead them back outside to the correct map?

(As a disclaimer, I always create a new save state after saving in-game. Save states have never caused me bugs, but in-game saves periodically will fix any such bugs by reloading the game that way. That's my experience, and I've never heard of bugs caused by savestates in the same version of the same hack. Even fixing maps, I have to reload the game to load the changes, but my emulator always resumes right where I left off and loads the change from that state.)

Cyclone

Jambo51 October 4th, 2012 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CycloneGU (Post 7361782)
So for what I really meant to ask here. If a player saves the game (using the in-game save) while inside a Pokémon Center, will it not be read in 3.2 and lead them back outside to the correct map?

No, it won't. The game will simply delete the save file as soon as it gets to the continue menu, or at least, it certainly won't load it. The old save and the new save are fundamentally incompatible, this was what I was trying to explain, but it's hard to explain why without resorting to showing you guys the ASM code behind it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CycloneGU (Post 7361782)
(As a disclaimer, I always create a new save state after saving in-game. Save states have never caused me bugs, but in-game saves periodically will fix any such bugs by reloading the game that way. That's my experience, and I've never heard of bugs caused by savestates in the same version of the same hack. Even fixing maps, I have to reload the game to load the changes, but my emulator always resumes right where I left off and loads the change from that state.)

Cyclone

It can happen. I've seen cases where a savestate has changed the value of a variable, which is why I advocate using the in game save so strongly. And in the case of RSE, it completely breaks the PRNG's functionality (because it never gets reseeded - it's only reseeded on game startup - whereas FR's is reseeded on every use). My point is, it's unreliable (at best) and, where possible, you should rely on the intended save feature, the in game save.

Also, apologies for losing it a bit earlier, but when you have to explain the same thing for the zillionth time, it does tend to get a bit frustrating. :(

Satoshi Ookami October 5th, 2012 1:22 AM

You should have shown the ASM routine first, most people would understand immediately ('cause they would not know WTFITS :D)

XeroNos October 5th, 2012 2:53 AM

I am not a fool OK. Don't fight plz. I played all the game clearly without any bugs.. We will c about that when new beta comes. Mind you I found no bugs or missed events

Jambo51 October 5th, 2012 3:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alienhunterx (Post 7362500)
I am not a fool OK. Don't fight plz. I played all the game clearly without any bugs.. We will c about that when new beta comes. Mind you I found no bugs or missed events

Then you were extremely lucky. In no way should a 3.1 save work on 3.2.
Also, more fool you doesn't mean you are a fool, it means you are taking what I consider to be a foolish course of action.

At the very least, please stop telling people that using a 3.1 save is alright when the official stance is that it isn't. And, as I said above, when something does inevitably break, don't say we didn't warn you.

~Andrea October 5th, 2012 8:51 AM

The best remeake for GBA ;)

XeroNos October 6th, 2012 3:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jambo51 (Post 7362511)
Then you were extremely lucky. In no way should a 3.1 save work on 3.2.
Also, more fool you doesn't mean you are a fool, it means you are taking what I consider to be a foolish course of action.

At the very least, please stop telling people that using a 3.1 save is alright when the official stance is that it isn't. And, as I said above, when something does inevitably break, don't say we didn't warn you.

Thnx for telling me that and keep it up to make us all proud !!!


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