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-   -   5th Gen How do you feel about less emphasis being placed on HMs? (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=244087)

Ho-Oh February 23rd, 2011 10:03 PM

How do you feel about less emphasis being placed on HMs?
 
Some of you may know that in Black and White, only four HMs are given out before the Elite Four, while to beat the main story, you only need one HM - Cut. Adding to that, overall there are only 6 HMs that can be obtained, the second lowest amount that can be obtained in games - with generation 1 having the lowest (5 HMs). On the plus side, you only need one HM slave!

Do you like the idea of less HMs than in other recent games?
Along with that, do you think it's a good thing that you only need one HM to complete the story?

MrGriszell February 23rd, 2011 10:43 PM

I think they should get rid of HMs from the move pool and have to be ability you can teach your pokemon to use outside of battles.
For example your charizard can have the ability to fly and cut down trees outside of battle while its inbattle movepool could be 1flamethrower.2. wing attack.3. firespin 4. steel wing
or maybe aply those abilites to an attack for example you can smash rocks(rock smash) with steel wing, or remove trees(cut) with flamethrower. move boulders with takle, takedown etc(strength)
but make it so that even tho snorlaxs tackle can move boulders a pidgys tackle would be inaffective.

. an example your milotic can carry you while swiming in the water because its a water type but not know the move surf.

razzbat February 24th, 2011 2:52 AM

i actually didn't like it that much, one of the great things about pokemon for me was the exploration. With the little importance of HMs and the way the region was set up, the level exploration was kind of a bit crummy. :\

PlatinumDude February 24th, 2011 2:58 AM

Do you like the idea of less HMs than in other recent games?: Yes, because I won't have to cram all the HMs on to my Pokemon.
Along with that, do you think it's a good thing that you only need one HM to complete the story?: Kind of. I still need Fly to get from place to place.

MeerFall February 24th, 2011 3:27 AM

i hate HMs so yes its good to have less

one hm slave? it should be none!

Tropical Sunlight February 24th, 2011 3:30 AM

No, I feel HMs should be used as markers of progress - when you beat a Gym, you can pass the blocking obstacle.
And I wanted to see new HMs, but I didn't :(

Weavile05 February 24th, 2011 3:54 AM

I'm happy to hear that you only need cut to beat the storyline (and fly for ease of city access, but that's a decent move anyway.) However, they should just make stronger HMs. For Example, maybe start out with cut but get an item later in the game that upgrades it to the move Slash. Rock Smash would upgrade to Brick Break or Dynamicpunch, and Whirlpool... well to be honest, I'm not sure. But something like that, you know?

MrGriszell February 24th, 2011 3:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by razzbat (Post 6475836)
i actually didn't like it that much, one of the great things about pokemon for me was the exploration. With the little importance of HMs and the way the region was set up, the level exploration was kind of a bit crummy. :\

I do agree with you kinda. I think the story of the game shouldnt depend on getting hm i mean how did other people get thru the map right?
but i think hms would be cool to explore the region in depth for example instead of beating a gym leader to use surf to get to a island just to beat another gym leader you should be able to use a boat ( similar to r/s) to get to the island and when you get surf be able to explore the water route more and discover its mysteries. TBH i would rather get all HMs( except maybe fly) after you complete the main story. This would only work if they made the whole map exploreable tho

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tropical Sunlight (Post 6475864)
No, I feel HMs should be used as markers of progress - when you beat a Gym, you can pass the blocking obstacle.
And I wanted to see new HMs, but I didn't :(

It was kinda like that in bw You couldnt just keep going, you had to beat the gym leader to be able to to pass

Zelda February 24th, 2011 4:05 AM

Do you like the idea of less HMs than in other recent games?
Yes, most definitely. I didn't like the idea of adding an HM move to two of the Pokémon I'd be using against the Elite Four, so I would have to deposit two in the PC while my HM slaves took the 5th and 6th slot of my team. Then I would end up having to train my team without the others, and I'd have to keep switching out between Pokémon to have them all maintain the same level range (I don't really like having one or more Pokémon at a lower level than the others when reaching the E4).

Plus, some of the HMs really didn't have a need to be an HM. Defog would be one good example for this, sure it had to do with the heavy fog that leads to Celestic Town (iirc), but I didn't really see why it couldn't be a TM or just another regular move because that was really the only place fog led up to and I believe one other place? There really wasn't much places with the fog to get rid of, so it being an HM wasn't really necessary in my opinion.

However, I am glad they decided to bring back HM Dive. This was one of my favorite HMs introduced in RSE, and to see it be brought back for B/W makes me curious how often it shall be used throughout the game and what will be down there to retrieve and do.

Along with that, do you think it's a good thing that you only need one HM to complete the story?
Once again, yes. This way I won't have to store two of my Pokémon in the PC all the time, and just one this time. :> There's also Fly, but I don't have a problem teaching one of my flying types that, since it's a pretty good move; for in-gaming anyway.

twistedpuppy February 24th, 2011 4:30 AM

Do you like the idea of less HMs than in other recent games?
Hallelujah! I love that that there are less HMs in these games! I don't really see the need for them to be classified as HMs when they can be just as easily labeled TMs, just as Flash has been made into one since the previous generation. All in all, I'm pretty happy with the selection of HM moves for this generation. Hopefully they'll stay that way for the third game.

Along with that, do you think it's a good thing that you only need one HM to complete the story?
It's ideal to have just one HM slave rather than two, but it's a little disappointing that you'll only need to use one HM for the entire main story.

Pokemon Trainer Touko February 24th, 2011 4:41 AM

Do you like the idea of less HMs than in other recent games? Yupps~ :)

Along with that, do you think it's a good thing that you only need one HM to complete the story? Yeah~ Because
it's more convenient and I dislike HM slaves~! :3

Wait a sec~! You only need to use cut once, right~? You only need to use it in the dream ruins, right~? :D

Zeturic February 24th, 2011 4:45 AM

Do you like the idea of less HMs than in other recent games?
To be honest, no. Perhaps it is because I never bothered with HM slaves, and just found certain moves on my team that could be, basically constantly, traded out and vice versa for an HM move, but I never really found the HMs to be that big of a burden. Also, I really enjoy the exploration aspect of HMs - it was always, I thought, very fun to, when getting a new HM, going back to the old areas, trying to remember the places that they'd lead you somewhere new that you noticed a long time ago.


Along with that, do you think it's a good thing that you only need one HM to complete the story?
Somewhat ironically based on my previous answer, but yes. This makes HMs, almost exclusively, act as ways of exploring, which I always found fun, rather than simple roadblocks to prevent you from going somewhere.

ShinyMeowth February 24th, 2011 4:53 AM

Do you like the idea of less HMs than in other recent games?
I never liked HMs in the first place. Reducing them is like a dream come true.
Along with that, do you think it's a good thing that you only need one HM to complete the story?
Yes. I hate having HM slaves, and having to teach cut to one of my six pokemon is nothing compared to the torture I've been receiving all these years.

JP February 24th, 2011 5:35 AM

I love the idea of less HM's. People constantly complain about these damn things, and for good reasons. For example, in HGSS you needed to have an HM slave to get up to the peak to battle Red, wasting a useful spot. Only needing one HM to complete the story is just fantastic!

Sabrewulf238 February 24th, 2011 7:38 AM

I'm really happy with it, it's incredibly annoying when you have to compromise your pokemon's moveset (or your entire team to include HM slaves) just so it can have some moves which aren't ideal but help you out on the field.

I have never understood why they couldn't just have field moves that are completely separate from battle moves. Makes so much more sense.

I might still teach Surf to my Samurott though since it's a pretty useful move. I'll probably just teach Cut to a Patrat.

LightOfTruth February 24th, 2011 8:20 AM

So is there any water for Surf in this game? I'm assuming you can use it to get more items plus its a good attack. It will be weird to me not using it as I needed it on the previous games. :)

Giraffe February 24th, 2011 9:29 AM

I think it's great! I really hate HM moves - They're annoying, and the obstacles you have to use them on just get in the way.

Katja February 24th, 2011 11:04 AM

yes. i have like 3 HM slaves in Platinum and it's really annoying to deposit/withdraw every 5 seconds D:

Sabrewulf238 February 24th, 2011 12:37 PM

Honestly though, I only ever really seem to use a HM slave when I'm traveling through caves.

Usually I'll have surf and fly on my main team without too much of a bother. It's nice to have them close to hand. Don't really want to be going back and forth to a pokemon box every time I want to fly somewhere...

Nameless. February 24th, 2011 1:02 PM

Do you like the idea of less HMs than in other recent games?
Oooh I love it so very much. HMs are the biggest pain in the tush and I just could not stand having to take up two/three spaces in my party for HM slaves. I could have just put them on my main team yes, but why would I? HMs are typically useless besides Surf, and maybe possibly Fly -- and sometimes I have my sets already perfect on my team and don't want to change em. Those HMs were devil-made, seriously. Having less places to use them makes me less likely to carry the slaves around and that makes me really happy. <3 Also makes me less likely to run into a rock to use Strength or Rock Smash on without a slave. Those were really annoying. ]:

Along with that, do you think it's a good thing that you only need one HM to complete the story?
Yes, yes I do. It may not create the interaction with the environment we are used to from the past games, but B&W makes up for all that with things like shaking grass, puddles, and dust clouds. The season/weather changes help to change things up too in the environment. Needing only one HM has made the game so much easier and so much better to me. <3


Zerrah. February 24th, 2011 1:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forever (Post 6475619)
Do you like the idea of less HMs than in other recent games?

I don't really mind the fact that there are less HMs. I mean, the only thing they really did was make getting around in some dungeons a pain. Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining. And in HGSS it's not like it was hard to find the HMs, they were pretty much handed to you, and I distinctly remember getting three in less than 20 minutes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forever (Post 6475619)
Along with that, do you think it's a good thing that you only need one HM to complete the story?

Again, in agreement with above, it's fine that we only need one. I'd actually prefer if I didn't have to waste an entire spot on my line-up just so I can cut down a little sprout that is incredibly blocking my path.

fenyx4 February 24th, 2011 2:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forever (Post 6475619)
Some of you may know that in Black and White, only four HMs are given out before the Elite Four, while to beat the main story, you only need one HM - Cut. Adding to that, overall there are only 6 HMs that can be obtained, the second lowest amount that can be obtained in games - with generation 1 having the lowest (5 HMs). On the plus side, you only need one HM slave!

Do you like the idea of less HMs than in other recent games?
Along with that, do you think it's a good thing that you only need one HM to complete the story?

The idea of less HMs in the games is great, but if most of them aren't even required for game completion, then they might as well revamp the whole "HM" concept and reintroduce TMs like Stealth Rock. At least we only need one HM slave this time around, but it's still annoying when one is trying to train or partake in other activities...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabrewulf238 (Post 6476057)
I'm really happy with it, it's incredibly annoying when you have to compromise your pokemon's moveset (or your entire team to include HM slaves) just so it can have some moves which aren't ideal but help you out on the field.

I have never understood why they couldn't just have field moves that are completely separate from battle moves. Makes so much more sense.

This. I actually made 2 Smeargle "HM slaves" (the Japanese equivalent term of Secret Agent is so much better, with a bonus of avoiding negative connotations) in Emerald so I wouldn't have this problem. I tend to rely on the Water-type starters to provide "Surf", but the necessity of HydroPump and Waterfall pose a problem for certain Pokemon. As for Fly, I taught it to Rayquaza in Sapphire and Emerald, but it can be detrimental for slower Pokemon because the opponent essentially gets a free turn to set up.

I contemplated teaching Fly to Charizard in FireRed, but Charizard is offensively oriented in Special Attack, so IMO Air Slash would be a more viable Flying-type attack for battle. I don't know if I'm going to have a Flying-type Pokemon capable of using Fly on my BW team, so there might be a problem for using it to facilitate of traveling... T_T

I agree that field moves should be separated from battle moves, but I wonder how Game Freak would implement this (Key Items?). The exploratory nature they provide is nice, but HMs usually come across as inconveniences instead as they potentially use up move slots and/or party Pokemon slots.

ManhattanTheStarr February 24th, 2011 3:11 PM

I LOVE it. Even though I haven't played B/W yet, I am super relieved to hear that HMs have little to no use in these games. Of course I'll still need Fly and Surf, but seeing that Rock Smash is now a TM, and Cut apparently only needs to be used once, it won't really matter. I still have bad memories of Victory Road in D/P/Pt when I needed pretty much EVERY HM (except Cut and Defog) to get through it. I had to RC one of my Pokemon and replace it with an HM slave. T_T

Sydian February 24th, 2011 3:17 PM

It makes me happy. I hate HMs so much. They did almost everything this generation, I swear. The only HM I really bother having around with me is Fly, just so I can leave the Great Hall quickly. BUT YEAH. Less importance of HMs is amazing. I was thrilled when I realized I wasn't even using them much when playing.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire February 24th, 2011 3:55 PM

I don't really have much of an opinion about HM in general but I like the HM moves themselves like Surf and Fly :)


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