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Dumbo Decus February 28th, 2011 4:58 PM

Suicide
 
    • Many people today life a life that is considered a "social Faux pas." Because they are different, because people don't see life the way that they do, they are ostracized, and all their idiosyncrasies are made into big scandals. Their rights are revoked, and they are treated like scum. They are called "sinners" or maybe a "freak" or "weirdo." But is there really that much of a difference? They breathe the same air, live on the same dirt, drink the same water... . So what is it exactly that sets them apart? Their choice in love? Music? Style? How could something so trivial as this have such a big impact on how people view them? For the most part(if not for good) the choices on things like that won't even affect the people who constantly harass them.

      However, they do not just sit idly by and let this happen. They fight back, they want the same rights, the same guarantee of freedom that everyone else has, they want a chance for happiness. As for some, it doesn't work out that way. That is what I'm writing this to focus on. They've had enough, they want out; toleration is out of the question. So what do they do? They give up, and go out the only way the can; suicide. For them it seems like it is their only option, their only way out. They've tried to cope, tried to keep a smile on their face, but for some reason, they just can't. They don't see the point in getting back up, they will just get knocked down again. They always have the promise that things will get better, but that is easier said than it is believed. Still though, even those who have seemingly perfect lives, who aren't harassed on this daily basis, even they have a break point. They don't have freak show lives, but the pain, it is steal real to them. They hide it, those with good and bad lives alike, they don't want to make anyone else have pain by seeing theirs. They blend in, and you couldn't tell who they were. For all you know, it could your best friend, the kid that sits next to you in your math class, or even the math teacher themselves.

      ====
      Gosh. So hard to not break into my own personal thoughts there and remain more factual than opinionated. I think I accomplished it... xD


      After reading through that psuedo-anecdote, what are your thoughts on suicide? Some say it is selfish, others don't agree. What is your stance?

Feign February 28th, 2011 5:51 PM

Of course it isn't selfish. Those who do think this, just have little faith in humanity, or they simply don't care for humanity.

A person who says they are contemplating/wanting to commit suicide first and foremost just want someone to talk to, something to hang on to so to speak. :)

No one deserves to die because of some difference, and watching idly by as you see someone get bullied just makes you as guilty. Imagine seeing a kid getting bullied, then the next day you find out he committed suicide. Sure you were not the one directly involved, but there were a number of things you could have done to gain attention to the current situation, like intervening or telling a teacher/parent or what not.

I also don't understand why people need to make fun of differences. But, if you fight against it, and don't sit idly by, you are making a difference.

Dumbo Decus February 28th, 2011 6:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feign (Post 6485578)
No one deserves to die because of some difference, and watching idly by as you see someone get bullied just makes you as guilty. Imagine seeing a kid getting bullied, then the next day you find out he committed suicide. Sure you were not the one directly involved, but there were a number of things you could have done to gain attention to the current situation, like intervening or telling a teacher/parent or what not.

Exactly. Isn't that something that we typically pride ourselves in? "You are unique etcetc." So why do those people who truly express the uniqueness get bullied?

It isn't always about what you don't say. You could never say a mean thing to anyone in your life. But that won't help it when comes to the kid who just wants someone to say the word "friend" to them. It won't help at all.

There was this kid in my school, who had a problem. I have no idea what it was, but it was definitely anger related. I tried to talk to him you know? Be his friend, but he just shrugged it off, cursed me out. I think that it would have to do with so many people approaching him just as a joke. I have not seen him in school for like the past two months. I have no idea what happened to him, and I just hope that it isn't suicide.

Feign February 28th, 2011 6:17 PM

Sometimes it is at a chemical level too (aside from thinking everyone to be untrustworthy), but yeah, it is obvious to see why. If it was pertinent however, he hopefully would come to you.

It does sound like however that he'd have more luck with an adult friend.

~Darkness~ February 28th, 2011 6:19 PM

What are your thoughts on suicide?
Its something were going to have to deal with in this kind of world. People cant control this. Some people just dont want to live anymore, and I'm fine with that. But I dont see why anyone would wanna end their lives before their time.

.Fenris February 28th, 2011 6:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dumbo Decus (Post 6485623)
Exactly. Isn't that something that we typically pride ourselves in? "You are unique etcetc." So why do those people who truly express the uniqueness get bullied?

It isn't always about what you don't say. You could never say a mean thing to anyone in your life. But that won't help it when comes to the kid who just wants someone to say the word "friend" to them. It won't help at all.

There was this kid in my school, who had a problem. I have no idea what it was, but it was definitely anger related. I tried to talk to him you know? Be his friend, but he just shrugged it off, cursed me out. I think that it would have to do with so many people approaching him just as a joke. I have not seen him in school for like the past two months. I have no idea what happened to him, and I just hope that it isn't suicide.


Good lord, he sounds exactly like me, but, some odd force keeps me from just ending it.

ChimeraReiax February 28th, 2011 6:33 PM

No matter what anyone says, I firmly believe Suicide isn't the answer. Many alternatives to many aspects exist in life, but ending your problems with death isn't right by any means. You end your experiences you never got to encounter, your greetings with people you never got to meet, your fortunes you never had the chance to gain, and most importantly, your friendships you never got to make. Ending your life is a complete game over, and no matter what you do, once you do it, you're done. That's it.

This is why I believe Suicide shouldn't be the only outlook for anyone; no matter how bad it gets, it can always turn around.

Dumbo Decus February 28th, 2011 6:37 PM

I'm going to admit it here, I've thought about suicide. One of the things that keeps at me at bay is this:

Who said death was escape? No one knows what awaits. What if you are just some consciousness left forever to perpetuate what has gone on in life(the most horrible fate, no?) or what if you go to some other life, be it heaven or whatever, and are just as miserable there? Just mainly, what if it isn't the great escape that you think it might be.

Serperior February 28th, 2011 6:44 PM

I'm glad that people like the OP exists... I'm not exactly the happiest person either [but that's another story for another time], and knowing there are humane people out there who don't act like they are from /b/ or something...

Feign February 28th, 2011 6:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~Darkness~ (Post 6485640)
What are your thoughts on suicide?
Its something were going to have to deal with in this kind of world. People cant control this. Some people just dont want to live anymore, and I'm fine with that. But I dont see why anyone would wanna end their lives before their time.

This is exactly the sort of wrong attitude to go about. (see comment below for more)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChimeraReiax (Post 6485672)
No matter what anyone says, I firmly believe Suicide isn't the answer. Many alternatives to many aspects exist in life, but ending your problems with death isn't right by any means. You end your experiences you never got to encounter, your greetings with people you never got to meet, your fortunes you never had the chance to gain, and most importantly, your friendships you never got to make. Ending your life is a complete game over, and no matter what you do, once you do it, you're done. That's it.

This is why I believe Suicide shouldn't be the only outlook for anyone; no matter how bad it gets, it can always turn around.

You may believe that, but a suicidal person will not. They have already exhausted every other means, and have otherwise failed. I realise putting yourself in their shoes can be difficult, but it is possible. If enough people start calling you names, you may start to believe it. Someone with a low self esteem might only see a pin prick's worth of light at the end of the tunnel as a result and might instead enjoy the solace of eternal sleep...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serperior (Post 6485697)
I'm glad that people like the OP exists... I'm not exactly the happiest person either [but that's another story for another time], and knowing there are humane people out there who don't act like they are from /b/ or something...

Though the "success" of /b/ is merely anonymity. I'm sure if you approached most of those people individually, they would say otherwise. Only sociopaths are indifferent.

Dumbo Decus February 28th, 2011 7:42 PM

That is the thing about suicide, you can't gauge the pain of others. You never know how someone feels in the situation that they are in. What seems trivial to you, could mean the world to them.

Anthraxinsoup February 28th, 2011 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feign (Post 6485721)
This is exactly the sort of wrong attitude to go about. (see comment below for more)



You may believe that, but a suicidal person will not. They have already exhausted every other means, and have otherwise failed. I realise putting yourself in their shoes can be difficult, but it is possible. If enough people start calling you names, you may start to believe it. Someone with a low self esteem might only see a pin prick's worth of light at the end of the tunnel as a result and might instead enjoy the solace of eternal sleep...



Though the "success" of /b/ is merely anonymity. I'm sure if you approached most of those people individually, they would say otherwise. Only sociopaths are indifferent.

I don't see how this is true. I don't share many ideological beliefs with many of those idiots, but I will always stand up for what I believe in and what I fight for. Ask me in real life or on a computer(when it is time), and I'll stand up for what I believe. I don't know, it might just be, and I might fit this "sociopathic" set, but I am proud in who I am and what I believe in, and all people should be the same(in my opinion).

groteske February 28th, 2011 11:08 PM

To address the OP's ..OP: I'm not sure where you live, but in the US (except mebbe deep Alabama, heh) there's been a gradually increasing wave of acceptance for 'alternate' lifestyle choices since the 1920s - the most obvious example would be widespread acknowledgement of gay/lesbian/bi/etc sexuality. Most of the opposition to extreme or alternate lifestyle choices either comes from a short-sighted traditionalist view, or recognition of the fact that Choice A is not a viable or sustainable lifestyle for humankind. Pick a non-heterosexual orientation and pretend that everyone in the world adhered to that orientation: there goes the concept of traditional reproduction (in b4 IVF). Not hijacking here, just clarifying. The same goes for a stereotypical 'nerd' who doesn't have good communication skills - this group may be ostracized because people instinctively realize that communication and adaptation are fundamental parts of being a successful human.

On suicide:
I support one taking control of their last decision, assuming they're either in such a psychologically & physically irreversible frame of mind that it's their only perceived option for relief (i.e. suicide as a positive goal), or someone who's lived decades, experienced different environments, cultures, etc; and has decided that off is better, or that they're simply done: an 'honorable' suicide, by choice.

More likely, it's someone with one or more mental illnesses who will refuse or avoid treatment and help, and are thusly drawn towards one black and white choice. I've known several people who were in that position; one was/is? committed, the others killed themselves. In all those cases, each one earnestly believed nobody cared about them, despite strong and persistent evidence to the contrary; they refused treatment, or lied about getting help.

Basically they had convinced themselves into a black hole that they were psychologically incapable of getting out of. When you're in that situation you're thinking from a wildly skewed perspective, so when someone tells you to 'snap out of it' or that 'things will get better', it literally will not compute.

For clarity, I'm not talking about common depression or someone ragging on another's musical taste, socioeconomic status, choice of friends, etc; I'm talking about serious and deep-rooted issues that some people carry throughout their lives.

Suicide at a young age, however, is asinine and short-sighted. Life inevitably gets better, all you have to do is push through it.

There's also a slight question of eugenics towards unproductive groups who may be drawn to suicidal thoughts - those who don't strive to improve self, environment, or society, whether from inertia or mental illness. But that's not really in the scope of this thread.

----
I went through the cutting and related crap, and though my grievances were 100% real and devastating at the time, I can't believe what an idiot I was - both to think that, at the time, it was the WORST PAIN EVAR to be experienced in life, and that I gave myself lifelong scars over issues so trivial. Things hurt a lot more significantly as you age, you just develop better coping skills.

ETA: oh yeah, the 'suicide is selfish' argument is utter BS. Living for someone else is a revolting concept.

Anthraxinsoup February 28th, 2011 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by groteske (Post 6486038)
I went through the cutting and related crap, and though my grievances were 100% real and devastating at the time, I can't believe what an idiot I was - both to think that, at the time, it was the WORST PAIN EVAR to be experienced in life, and that I gave myself lifelong scars over issues so trivial. Things hurt a lot more significantly as you age, you just develop better coping skills.

Least you can say it was stupid. I never got cutting and have always been opposed to it, as it is very stupid. But then again that's me, I get sad, I just push it down and go on and become happy again. Ignoring emotions have made me happier, it's not like people say.

groteske February 28th, 2011 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthraxinsoup (Post 6486026)
I don't see how this is true. I don't share many ideological beliefs with many of those idiots, but I will always stand up for what I believe in and what I fight for. Ask me in real life or on a computer(when it is time), and I'll stand up for what I believe. I don't know, it might just be, and I might fit this "sociopathic" set, but I am proud in who I am and what I believe in, and all people should be the same(in my opinion).

/b/ is a collective, which by nature squash individuality and gravitate towards mediocrity. (any more -ity's I can add to that? :P )

Tropical Sunlight February 28th, 2011 11:26 PM

You'd be surprised to see how many untreated cases of depression there are every year.
And depression is the most common form of mental illness.
Wikipedia for more info.

Anthraxinsoup February 28th, 2011 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by groteske (Post 6486043)
/b/ is a collective, which by nature squash individuality and gravitate towards mediocrity. (any more -ity's I can add to that? :P )

I am a collectivist, but not in that form, nor am I friend of the new /b/ at all. Been crappy for like 4/5 years now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tropical Sunlight (Post 6486045)
You'd be surprised to see how many untreated cases of depression there are every year.
And depression is the most common form of mental illness.
Wikipedia for more info.

I doubt in my mind that Depression is a mental illness, all people get depressed and it's a natural thing.

groteske February 28th, 2011 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tropical Sunlight (Post 6486045)
You'd be surprised to see how many untreated cases of depression there are every year.
And depression is the most common form of mental illness.
Wikipedia for more info.

Yeah that's why I tried to draw a difference between depression and crippling-mental-illness-level depression. Not trying to downplay chronic depression's effects on an otherwise mentally healthy person, just, yanno, there is a huge glaring difference between the two.

Dumbo Decus February 28th, 2011 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthraxinsoup (Post 6486048)
I doubt in my mind that Depression is a mental illness, all people get depressed and it's a natural thing.

Not everyone actually gets depressed. Lots of people say that they are, but they never actually are. There is a difference between being sad and being depressed. When you are depressed, your body doesn't make enough positive chemicals in reaction to stimuli.

Quote:

Originally Posted by groteske (Post 6486038)
To address the OP's ..OP: I'm not sure where you live, but in the US (except mebbe deep Alabama, heh) there's been a gradually increasing wave of acceptance for 'alternate' lifestyle choices since the 1920s - the most obvious example would be widespread acknowledgement of gay/lesbian/bi/etc sexuality. Most of the opposition to extreme or alternate lifestyle choices either comes from a short-sighted traditionalist view, or recognition of the fact that Choice A is not a viable or sustainable lifestyle for humankind. Pick a non-heterosexual orientation and pretend that everyone in the world adhered to that orientation: there goes the concept of traditional reproduction (in b4 IVF). Not hijacking here, just clarifying. The same goes for a stereotypical 'nerd' who doesn't have good communication skills - this group may be ostracized because people instinctively realize that communication and adaptation are fundamental parts of being a successful human.

Yeah, I know. Acceptance is picking-up. The idea is to look deeper than what I wrote. I merely put the appetizer on the table, you have to make the main course. It might still be getting widely acceptable, but I'm sure that every gay person in their life has that one person(probably more) that call them "******s", say they are "disgusting" or something to that degree. If you mix that with a depressed person.. and one that already hates their life styles, that doesn't bode well for them.

Not everyone accepts them, and they shouldn't expect that. But those people that don't accept them, when they vocalize it, it stings. Even if people don't directly do it, tings they say and do could already hurt someone.

Captain Fabio March 1st, 2011 7:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChimeraReiax (Post 6485672)
No matter what anyone says, I firmly believe Suicide isn't the answer.

Ok, the last time this thread came up, I got that upset about peoples blind opinions, I got infracted. So lets not have a repeat and lets keep this civil.

Nearly 7 years ago, by best friend took his life. I still don't know why. I still don't understand. But how can you say that it isn't the answer. Have you been in that situation of nearly taking your life? I can't comment for you, but I hope you haven't, because no one should have to be in that situation.

Let us not forget, depression is a big factor. I am not talking about people who act like they are depressed, or just want the attention, but clinical depression. This will make you do things that can't be explained. It is the one thing that you can't put down to logical thinking, because you don't know how they are thinking/feeling. Although I am still upset to this day that I have lost one of my best friends, I just wish I knew, so I could have been there for him. It is so hard to think if I could have done something for him to make it better. But, sometimes, people who take their own lives don't want to tell anyone about how they are feeling.

The bottom line is, we can't really comment on if it is the right thing to do or not. From a logical point of view, you can say that it isn't. But, if someone is truly depressed/other medical reasons, then who are we to say it isn't the right thing to do?

It is a black area that makes me upset every time it is spoken about, so I apologies now, if I get annoyed or angry with anyone.


Beechlgz March 1st, 2011 8:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Fabio (Post 6486445)
But, if someone is truly depressed/other medical reasons, then who are we to say it isn't the right thing to do?

Nobody is in any position to say it is the right thing to do either. Purely because we can't know the future and what it holds. No matter how hopeless someone's outlook on life may be, they just can't know that it will be like that forever. Amazing things can happen, people's lives can be turned around by just one minor and seemingly insignificant event.

Depression is a horrible thing I agree. It can really seem like there is no light at the end of the tunnel, nothing will ever get better, everything is hopeless, nobody cares, that's often the mindset of someone who's depressed. Often they don't get the support they so very much need either because they might be hiding it or they might be showing it but nobody is taking seriously just how badly they feel. Friends and family (if they have any) might just shrug it off as a phase, or tell them to suck it up and move on which doesn't help. So not only does someone who's depressed see the problem as way bigger than it is (due to serious chemical imbalance and/or possibly past trauma hauntings) but those around them often perpetuate that mindset rather than being kind and understanding towards the ones suffering from the depression.

Quote:

After reading through that psuedo-anecdote, what are your thoughts on suicide? Some say it is selfish, others don't agree. What is your stance?
It is selfish but people need to be understanding of this form of selfishness. It's not the kind of selfishness you see from greedy or self-absorbed people and it shouldn't be treated as such. It's the kind of selfishness from someone truly desperately in need of whatever it is that's missing from their life (the medicine, so to speak), whether it be kindness, security, love, friendship, spirituality, therapy, or even just stability in their lives. Suicidal mindset is an illness and one of the symptoms is selfishness. Left untreated too long, it can be fatal for obvious reasons.

Anyone who's ever suffered from suicidal thoughts will know it is an illness, you truly feel like your entire being is under attack, like your body would feel like if you were under attack from some kind of virus. You lose your appetite, you feel weak, sometimes dizzy, sick, you feel like your body weighs more, you feel a numb but at the same time pressing negativity around your whole self. You feel achy like when you have flu. Your immune system stops working properly so you fall ill a lot with colds and tummy bugs which make you feel even worse. You start having negative thoughts you would never normally have before, ones that take a hold on you and don't let you think anything positive.

I don't believe suicide is ever right though. It's to be avoided at all costs. The aim should be towards healing and not to end it all. Easier said than done of course! That's why someone suffering from this needs lots and lots of support, even if it's not from immediate family. More people need to be understanding of other people who are feeling this way instead of turning a blind eye. Even if it's a complete stranger. Just give them your time and support. Most likely they need it as much as they need their water and nutrients.

Capris March 1st, 2011 1:41 PM

Suicide isn't entirely selfish and when somebody is thinking of committing suicide it most likely is the last thing on a long list of things the person thinks is the best thing to do about their depression, or ostracism. They've either been pushed to a point where they feel they have no other option or somehow have managed to get themselves in a state of depression that they can't shake. Internally it's the farthest thing from selfish because they're just seeking to end pain in the only way they think they can, however externally it could affect those around them and their loved ones.

So yes it is selfish, but it isn't in the eye of the beholder.

Dumbo Decus March 1st, 2011 4:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Fabio (Post 6486445)



Nearly 7 years ago, by best friend took his life. I still don't know why. I still don't understand. But how can you say that it isn't the answer. Have you been in that situation of nearly taking your life? I can't comment for you, but I hope you haven't, because no one should have to be in that situation.


Yeah, I'm sorry for your loss. It is a terrible thing to have to experience, when someone you care about decides to take their life... . I think that is where people get the idea that it is selfish. Because they just take their life that everyone is apart away. But there is a flipside to that coin. It is selfish to ask them to keep living because you want them in your life. It is selfish to ask them to endure any sort of pain that they are feeling. So, for that reason, I can't really say that it is selfish. No one should be in that situation, and what does it say about the world the fact that people are? Nothing good, I assure you that. It is horrible to care for a person in that situation. Because... you can almost always find a way to blame yourself... . No matter what people say or do... you always wonder what you could have down to prevented it =/.

Again, I apologize for your loss. It hurts, I know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beechlgz (Post 6486485)
It is selfish but people need to be understanding of this form of selfishness. It's not the kind of selfishness you see from greedy or self-absorbed people and it shouldn't be treated as such. It's the kind of selfishness from someone truly desperately in need of whatever it is that's missing from their life (the medicine, so to speak), whether it be kindness, security, love, friendship, spirituality, therapy, or even just stability in their lives. Suicidal mindset is an illness and one of the symptoms is selfishness. Left untreated too long, it can be fatal for obvious reasons.

I wouldn't call that selfish. You need it to survive, and taking what you need, getting what will make you live, that isn't selfish. That s like.. saying eating bread is selfish. You could give it to someone else to eat, but you need it too. It isn't selfish to keep it, but it isn't selfless either. Which is fine. Rather you be nothing than selfish. I kept writing shellfish -__-

Quote:

I don't believe suicide is ever right though. It's to be avoided at all costs. The aim should be towards healing and not to end it all. Easier said than done of course! That's why someone suffering from this needs lots and lots of support, even if it's not from immediate family. More people need to be understanding of other people who are feeling this way instead of turning a blind eye. Even if it's a complete stranger. Just give them your time and support. Most likely they need it as much as they need their water and nutrients.
Suicide isn't right, that I agree. There is always another solution, always someone who wants to help. You just have to hold out until you get it. But you can't always hold out, eventually you will reach a point where you just have to give up, or get completely decimated. Think of it as the last ten soldiers waiting for reinforcements, meanwhile, they have to take on the much stronger and larger army of ten thousand. You might have the home-field advantage, but you won't ever win. No matter how good a fight you put up. But there is chance, that you can hold out until reinforcements come and help you win.

I agree with you on that last bit too. You shouldn't just help your friends and family. While you can't be there to help everyone, if you notice someone drowning, offer them your hand. Help them to their feet, and then just hope that someone else can come along and finish the job. If you do help people, you can't be a crutch for them. You have to help them build the strength so they can survive without you, because you won't always be there for them.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Capris (Post 6486970)
Suicide isn't entirely selfish and when somebody is thinking of committing suicide it most likely is the last thing on a long list of things the person thinks is the best thing to do about their depression, or ostracism. They've either been pushed to a point where they feel they have no other option or somehow have managed to get themselves in a state of depression that they can't shake. Internally it's the farthest thing from selfish because they're just seeking to end pain in the only way they think they can, however externally it could affect those around them and their loved ones.

So yes it is selfish, but it isn't in the eye of the beholder.

The eye of the beholder? You basically just nulled everything you said with that. You just said: "It is selfish, but it depends on who is looking at the situation." Well I personally don't think it selfish... . So in my eye it isn't. Now, if you were talking about the person committing the act, of course it isn't selfish in their eyes. Many of them even believe that they are doing the world a favor by offing themselves. When in reality, they aren't.

It might affect the loved ones, but as I've said above: the loved ones wishing them to endure the pain to be in their lives is quite selfish as well. Why? It's like... your sports team expecting you to win the game for them with a broken leg and disowning you when you don't. They would only like you as long as you could do that for them, despite what you were going through. Just as the people you live with would only like you as long as you could live for them.

Understanding the reason why people feel the way they do at these desperate times if the first step to preventing it.

Capris March 1st, 2011 6:55 PM

Quote:

The eye of the beholder? You basically just nulled everything you said with that. You just said: "It is selfish, but it depends on who is looking at the situation." Well I personally don't think it selfish... . So in my eye it isn't. Now, if you were talking about the person committing the act, of course it isn't selfish in their eyes. Many of them even believe that they are doing the world a favor by offing themselves. When in reality, they aren't.

It might affect the loved ones, but as I've said above: the loved ones wishing them to endure the pain to be in their lives is quite selfish as well. Why? It's like... your sports team expecting you to win the game for them with a broken leg and disowning you when you don't. They would only like you as long as you could do that for them, despite what you were going through. Just as the people you live with would only like you as long as you could live for them.
When I say the eye of the beholder I'm talking about the person who's depressed or ostracized thinking of committing suicide. Looking at it from your perspective which is, admittedly, probably the right one.. it still makes sense. If in your eyes nothing about suicide is selfish that doesn't change the fact that I find some aspects of it selfish. It's hard for me to tell somebody they're wrong about an opinion as subjective as this, but I strongly feel that if anybody besides the victim is looking at it as completely unselfish they're wrong. You said yourself that they think offing themselves is going to help the world and go on to say that that's wrong, so if you disagree with their mindset.. that they're being unselfish, then what do you think if not that there's something selfish about it? I'm not saying you think one thing or the other but I don't understand how you can disagree that it isn't selfish and manage to put it into some really obscure gray area that you haven't really explained. I love seeing others perspectives and takes on this sort of thing so don't be put off by what might seem like attitude, I'm genuinely interested.

As for your analogy, I just don't get it at all. I understand what an analogy is and that despite the obvious differences between the two things being compared they share an underlying theme, but in this case there is no underlying theme or at least not one that makes sense. The loved ones of somebody who has committed suicide would most likely not have meant for them to continue living through enduring pain but instead would help them seek other methods of treating the problem that didn't involve killing themselves. That's something people who are depressed need to realize, as hard as it is to admit to there being something wrong with you, just telling somebody and having that shoulder to lean on can be a relief in and of itself. Beyond that they would do everything in their power to help you, whether it be through making a more inviting atmosphere for you in places they could or helping you to get anti depressants.

I'm starting to realize what you mean with your analogy, but that kind of thinking is so morbid. I wouldn't want to try and get myself into that mindset. You bring up the point that there's somebody who wants them to live which is something to live for in itself, relationships aren't one sided and your happiness should be their happiness, and vice versa. The person willing to commit suicide is the one in this case that knows the whole story, without telling their loved ones what's going on they have no way to reciprocate in the relationship if you're hiding how you truly feel, so it's the victim's job to fill them in. I mean, it's just again.. incredibly morbid to think of one person as selfish for wanting somebody they care about to continue living and rather than in sadness or depression they would want to help you, but they can't do that if somebody is already dead. They want you to live not just for them but for yourself, because as much as they doubt it almost everybody has somebody who wants to be there for them when they're down. You can find solace in the most unlikely people.

I urge anybody who feels like they need to kill themselves to talk to me personally, as well as somebody involved with you in real life. Being a human I've had my bouts of depression and I know that it's hard to dig yourself out of it but if you don't do it as soon as possible it's only going to get worse and manifest itself in you until it's to the point where you seemingly can't do anything about it.. and that's an awful place to be.

Silent Crest March 1st, 2011 7:15 PM

Really? While agreeing that people do not deserve to die society can only accommodate certain things. Sometimes, people have to fight it.

Most people, before they become gay, they know that people will taunt them for it. Which is why so many people never come out of the closet. If they are depressed about it, they should stop and think, is the identity that it gives them really worth the trouble? I think suicide for this particular reason is selfish, rash, or they're just crazy, obviously they haven't thought everything through.

Honestly, everyone has a right to be stupid, but some people just abuse that right.


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