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Suicide
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Of course it isn't selfish. Those who do think this, just have little faith in humanity, or they simply don't care for humanity.
A person who says they are contemplating/wanting to commit suicide first and foremost just want someone to talk to, something to hang on to so to speak. :) No one deserves to die because of some difference, and watching idly by as you see someone get bullied just makes you as guilty. Imagine seeing a kid getting bullied, then the next day you find out he committed suicide. Sure you were not the one directly involved, but there were a number of things you could have done to gain attention to the current situation, like intervening or telling a teacher/parent or what not. I also don't understand why people need to make fun of differences. But, if you fight against it, and don't sit idly by, you are making a difference. |
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It isn't always about what you don't say. You could never say a mean thing to anyone in your life. But that won't help it when comes to the kid who just wants someone to say the word "friend" to them. It won't help at all. There was this kid in my school, who had a problem. I have no idea what it was, but it was definitely anger related. I tried to talk to him you know? Be his friend, but he just shrugged it off, cursed me out. I think that it would have to do with so many people approaching him just as a joke. I have not seen him in school for like the past two months. I have no idea what happened to him, and I just hope that it isn't suicide. |
Sometimes it is at a chemical level too (aside from thinking everyone to be untrustworthy), but yeah, it is obvious to see why. If it was pertinent however, he hopefully would come to you.
It does sound like however that he'd have more luck with an adult friend. |
What are your thoughts on suicide?
Its something were going to have to deal with in this kind of world. People cant control this. Some people just dont want to live anymore, and I'm fine with that. But I dont see why anyone would wanna end their lives before their time. |
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Good lord, he sounds exactly like me, but, some odd force keeps me from just ending it. |
No matter what anyone says, I firmly believe Suicide isn't the answer. Many alternatives to many aspects exist in life, but ending your problems with death isn't right by any means. You end your experiences you never got to encounter, your greetings with people you never got to meet, your fortunes you never had the chance to gain, and most importantly, your friendships you never got to make. Ending your life is a complete game over, and no matter what you do, once you do it, you're done. That's it.
This is why I believe Suicide shouldn't be the only outlook for anyone; no matter how bad it gets, it can always turn around. |
I'm going to admit it here, I've thought about suicide. One of the things that keeps at me at bay is this:
Who said death was escape? No one knows what awaits. What if you are just some consciousness left forever to perpetuate what has gone on in life(the most horrible fate, no?) or what if you go to some other life, be it heaven or whatever, and are just as miserable there? Just mainly, what if it isn't the great escape that you think it might be. |
I'm glad that people like the OP exists... I'm not exactly the happiest person either [but that's another story for another time], and knowing there are humane people out there who don't act like they are from /b/ or something...
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That is the thing about suicide, you can't gauge the pain of others. You never know how someone feels in the situation that they are in. What seems trivial to you, could mean the world to them.
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To address the OP's ..OP: I'm not sure where you live, but in the US (except mebbe deep Alabama, heh) there's been a gradually increasing wave of acceptance for 'alternate' lifestyle choices since the 1920s - the most obvious example would be widespread acknowledgement of gay/lesbian/bi/etc sexuality. Most of the opposition to extreme or alternate lifestyle choices either comes from a short-sighted traditionalist view, or recognition of the fact that Choice A is not a viable or sustainable lifestyle for humankind. Pick a non-heterosexual orientation and pretend that everyone in the world adhered to that orientation: there goes the concept of traditional reproduction (in b4 IVF). Not hijacking here, just clarifying. The same goes for a stereotypical 'nerd' who doesn't have good communication skills - this group may be ostracized because people instinctively realize that communication and adaptation are fundamental parts of being a successful human.
On suicide: I support one taking control of their last decision, assuming they're either in such a psychologically & physically irreversible frame of mind that it's their only perceived option for relief (i.e. suicide as a positive goal), or someone who's lived decades, experienced different environments, cultures, etc; and has decided that off is better, or that they're simply done: an 'honorable' suicide, by choice. More likely, it's someone with one or more mental illnesses who will refuse or avoid treatment and help, and are thusly drawn towards one black and white choice. I've known several people who were in that position; one was/is? committed, the others killed themselves. In all those cases, each one earnestly believed nobody cared about them, despite strong and persistent evidence to the contrary; they refused treatment, or lied about getting help. Basically they had convinced themselves into a black hole that they were psychologically incapable of getting out of. When you're in that situation you're thinking from a wildly skewed perspective, so when someone tells you to 'snap out of it' or that 'things will get better', it literally will not compute. For clarity, I'm not talking about common depression or someone ragging on another's musical taste, socioeconomic status, choice of friends, etc; I'm talking about serious and deep-rooted issues that some people carry throughout their lives. Suicide at a young age, however, is asinine and short-sighted. Life inevitably gets better, all you have to do is push through it. There's also a slight question of eugenics towards unproductive groups who may be drawn to suicidal thoughts - those who don't strive to improve self, environment, or society, whether from inertia or mental illness. But that's not really in the scope of this thread. ---- I went through the cutting and related crap, and though my grievances were 100% real and devastating at the time, I can't believe what an idiot I was - both to think that, at the time, it was the WORST PAIN EVAR to be experienced in life, and that I gave myself lifelong scars over issues so trivial. Things hurt a lot more significantly as you age, you just develop better coping skills. ETA: oh yeah, the 'suicide is selfish' argument is utter BS. Living for someone else is a revolting concept. |
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You'd be surprised to see how many untreated cases of depression there are every year.
And depression is the most common form of mental illness. Wikipedia for more info. |
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Not everyone accepts them, and they shouldn't expect that. But those people that don't accept them, when they vocalize it, it stings. Even if people don't directly do it, tings they say and do could already hurt someone. |
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Ok, the last time this thread came up, I got that upset about peoples blind opinions, I got infracted. So lets not have a repeat and lets keep this civil. |
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Depression is a horrible thing I agree. It can really seem like there is no light at the end of the tunnel, nothing will ever get better, everything is hopeless, nobody cares, that's often the mindset of someone who's depressed. Often they don't get the support they so very much need either because they might be hiding it or they might be showing it but nobody is taking seriously just how badly they feel. Friends and family (if they have any) might just shrug it off as a phase, or tell them to suck it up and move on which doesn't help. So not only does someone who's depressed see the problem as way bigger than it is (due to serious chemical imbalance and/or possibly past trauma hauntings) but those around them often perpetuate that mindset rather than being kind and understanding towards the ones suffering from the depression. Quote:
Anyone who's ever suffered from suicidal thoughts will know it is an illness, you truly feel like your entire being is under attack, like your body would feel like if you were under attack from some kind of virus. You lose your appetite, you feel weak, sometimes dizzy, sick, you feel like your body weighs more, you feel a numb but at the same time pressing negativity around your whole self. You feel achy like when you have flu. Your immune system stops working properly so you fall ill a lot with colds and tummy bugs which make you feel even worse. You start having negative thoughts you would never normally have before, ones that take a hold on you and don't let you think anything positive. I don't believe suicide is ever right though. It's to be avoided at all costs. The aim should be towards healing and not to end it all. Easier said than done of course! That's why someone suffering from this needs lots and lots of support, even if it's not from immediate family. More people need to be understanding of other people who are feeling this way instead of turning a blind eye. Even if it's a complete stranger. Just give them your time and support. Most likely they need it as much as they need their water and nutrients. |
Suicide isn't entirely selfish and when somebody is thinking of committing suicide it most likely is the last thing on a long list of things the person thinks is the best thing to do about their depression, or ostracism. They've either been pushed to a point where they feel they have no other option or somehow have managed to get themselves in a state of depression that they can't shake. Internally it's the farthest thing from selfish because they're just seeking to end pain in the only way they think they can, however externally it could affect those around them and their loved ones.
So yes it is selfish, but it isn't in the eye of the beholder. |
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Again, I apologize for your loss. It hurts, I know. Quote:
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I agree with you on that last bit too. You shouldn't just help your friends and family. While you can't be there to help everyone, if you notice someone drowning, offer them your hand. Help them to their feet, and then just hope that someone else can come along and finish the job. If you do help people, you can't be a crutch for them. You have to help them build the strength so they can survive without you, because you won't always be there for them. Quote:
It might affect the loved ones, but as I've said above: the loved ones wishing them to endure the pain to be in their lives is quite selfish as well. Why? It's like... your sports team expecting you to win the game for them with a broken leg and disowning you when you don't. They would only like you as long as you could do that for them, despite what you were going through. Just as the people you live with would only like you as long as you could live for them. Understanding the reason why people feel the way they do at these desperate times if the first step to preventing it. |
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As for your analogy, I just don't get it at all. I understand what an analogy is and that despite the obvious differences between the two things being compared they share an underlying theme, but in this case there is no underlying theme or at least not one that makes sense. The loved ones of somebody who has committed suicide would most likely not have meant for them to continue living through enduring pain but instead would help them seek other methods of treating the problem that didn't involve killing themselves. That's something people who are depressed need to realize, as hard as it is to admit to there being something wrong with you, just telling somebody and having that shoulder to lean on can be a relief in and of itself. Beyond that they would do everything in their power to help you, whether it be through making a more inviting atmosphere for you in places they could or helping you to get anti depressants. I'm starting to realize what you mean with your analogy, but that kind of thinking is so morbid. I wouldn't want to try and get myself into that mindset. You bring up the point that there's somebody who wants them to live which is something to live for in itself, relationships aren't one sided and your happiness should be their happiness, and vice versa. The person willing to commit suicide is the one in this case that knows the whole story, without telling their loved ones what's going on they have no way to reciprocate in the relationship if you're hiding how you truly feel, so it's the victim's job to fill them in. I mean, it's just again.. incredibly morbid to think of one person as selfish for wanting somebody they care about to continue living and rather than in sadness or depression they would want to help you, but they can't do that if somebody is already dead. They want you to live not just for them but for yourself, because as much as they doubt it almost everybody has somebody who wants to be there for them when they're down. You can find solace in the most unlikely people. I urge anybody who feels like they need to kill themselves to talk to me personally, as well as somebody involved with you in real life. Being a human I've had my bouts of depression and I know that it's hard to dig yourself out of it but if you don't do it as soon as possible it's only going to get worse and manifest itself in you until it's to the point where you seemingly can't do anything about it.. and that's an awful place to be. |
Really? While agreeing that people do not deserve to die society can only accommodate certain things. Sometimes, people have to fight it.
Most people, before they become gay, they know that people will taunt them for it. Which is why so many people never come out of the closet. If they are depressed about it, they should stop and think, is the identity that it gives them really worth the trouble? I think suicide for this particular reason is selfish, rash, or they're just crazy, obviously they haven't thought everything through. Honestly, everyone has a right to be stupid, but some people just abuse that right. |
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