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-   -   DS vs. PSP (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=24558)

Poke December 17th, 2004 7:08 AM

Unfortunately for the DS is that Ive looked on a video game website and some of their games that are supposed to be hits (Madden, Spider Man 2) are flops. Madden got a C- and Spider Man 2 got a D+. Fortunately, Super Mario 64 on the DS got a B. So by the launch of the DS, the games are not very good but, they could get better.

Brittany December 17th, 2004 8:46 AM

I think we're all missing something here. Even Nintendo knows that it's a novelty. Their ultimate hope is for the features to be accepted and then become the norm for the gaming community, which isn't going to well at the moment, and that's also probably why it isn't the Gameboy's successor. It's their 'third pillar'.

If sales don't go well after the novelty hype goes down, they will still have GBE to release, and NDS won't have a next generation.

I'm not saying that NDS will always be a novelty, but even Nintendo has a back-up plan. My own back-up plan is just to buy the PSP XD

mew42003 December 17th, 2004 8:50 AM

I like DS more cause I got one.

Poke December 17th, 2004 8:53 AM

Hmmmmmm............ well we will have to find out.......

Brittany December 17th, 2004 8:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mew42003
I like DS more cause I got one.

That's a reason that nobody has posted yet :P

Poke December 17th, 2004 8:55 AM

Well I dont think anybody has the honesty to just say they like it cause they have it....but thats just my opinon......

Kairi December 17th, 2004 11:34 AM

I suppose. I’d really rather Sony and Nintendo focus on other things though, really. And If, if the PSP out does the DS, I hope Nintendo learns from it and applies the knowledge to the next Gameboy. I think the Gameboy works because of its limitations, however I can’t properly articulate it. Bleh.

Lucifer. December 17th, 2004 12:10 PM

That knowledge being "graphics = ratings", of course.

The handheld market is just getting sucked into a war over who can make the most powerful machine - the way it is in the world of home consoles. I don't fancy being battered by new Game Boys and PSPs every 3 years. Especially since the original Game Boy/GBC kept millions entertained over its 12 or-so years at the top.

I still think there's plenty of life left in the GBA, myself. But I'm afraid that 2005 could be its last year on the market. It's a shame, really, that from now on this is the way it's always going to be.

poke-fan December 17th, 2004 2:49 PM

Some people might like playing the Advance games on SP better. You never know.

JoWood December 17th, 2004 2:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a1337a
Now it's my turn ^^


Innovate? Don't you mean dilute?
I mean, hear me out here. Games shouldn't need gimmicks, they just need solid gameplay that doesn't get tired. A touch screen for an FPS? That's not a step forward, it's an awkward spinning around on the spot, then falling on your bottom. Wow, you've got 'innovative new wireless'. It's just 11g without a proper IP stack, because Nintendo got lazy. You've got two screens? How awesome, I'd love to see my steering wheel on one screen when all the action takes place on the other. Two screens was an awesome idea when screens couldn't scroll, 20 years ago. Now it just feels kinda retro, and not in that warm good way.


Why not go the DS? Because it looks archaic, it has graphics two generations behind, it's 'features' really ARE noveltys. I mean, you stack up the NDS next to the PSP and it looks like an old toy, compared to the sleak lines and pretty graphics of the PSP. And no, I'm not a Sony Fangirl. I just know what I like, and I don't like that. Yeah, some people can have a total lack of bias (luv you Abby! <3<3), but I'm a little more outwardly speaking when it comes to what I like. I also know from working in a games shop what people look for. People don't buy an Xbox or PS2 cause they can play DVD's, they do it cause of the good games. Gimmicks don't sell consoles, the games do. And if the games are crap, chances are the sales will be, too. And for my bottom line, that sucks.


A hard time making use of the features? Wow, that's a bad sign. All these gimmicks, and no-one knows how to use them. Seems like it could be a bad idea to focus on features over functionality and substance.


But then,
You guys are entitled to your opinion.
And I'm entitled to mine.
kthxbaiu!

A gimmick!? Hardly a gimmick(although I hate Nintendo for solely focusing on the 2-screens). The DS can do everything the PSP can, and more! You defense is simply because you don't like these features because they are a gimmick. So what do you make of HP's best selling palm pilots with the touch screen feature? IS this a gimmick that millions of people have brought into? I don't think so, it makes organizing easier and then Nintendo put this into a effect with a different use for the DS.

For years all we have been doing is enhancing graphics for a console, thus most of the gaming popularity buys into the good graphics. Imagine a game like FFCC on the DS, imagine the possibilities! Imagine the great RPGs, like ToS and Advance Wars. DS could make these games a whole new experience and all the PSP can do is enhance graphics. That sure seems like a great reason to buy the PSP. </sarcasm>

You said people buy PS2 and X-Box because of the great games they offer. RIGHT! Now imagine a game like Halo 2 (whose graphics I'm highly disapointed in.) on the DS. You see how the features of the DS come into play, it could be better the original. Take any other top-selling and then see how the DS could enhance it with the features it offers. Goes far beyond graphics doesn't it?

All these features are hard to make use of, why? Because all producers have been doing is enhancing graphics! And now since they can't go much further they decided to make DVDs, CD & mp3 players in consoles now.
Quote:

And I'm entitled to mine.
...

John Denver December 17th, 2004 3:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a1337a
Sorry, but there's no way you could 'enhance' even a crappy game like Halo 2 by using the DS's features. The touch screen has NO PRACTICAL use in controlling a game, especially an FPS Game.
You really ARE delusional if you think two screens, a stylus, a castrared wireless standard and graphics on par with the N64 could enhance ANY recent game.

Why do you feel the need to insult people who disagree with you?

And have you seen Warioware DS? I don't know when it's coming out in america, but that game uses the touch screen beautifully!

DragonTrainer December 17th, 2004 3:13 PM

I personally would never buy a system or a game for the features or graphics or battery power or whatever. Call me loopy, but if a system/game comes out that could keep me entertained for oh so long, no matter what features or graphics, so long as I could sit there for hours playing and enjoying it, it's good enough for me to buy.

Hope I made sense o.o

JoWood December 17th, 2004 3:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a1337a
Sorry, but there's no way you could 'enhance' even a crappy game like Halo 2 by using the DS's features. The touch screen has NO PRACTICAL use in controlling a game, especially an FPS Game.
You really ARE delusional if you think two screens, a stylus, a castrared wireless standard and graphics on par with the N64 could enhance ANY recent game.

Can you really be that feeble-minded? You do realize how the DS could make use of the things you make sound so inferior? Open your mind just a little and I'm sure some light will seep in. The DS offers things NO OTHER console have, thus making powerful enough to enhance any game. The touch has no use in controlling the game yeah, but can you imagine the strategies you'll be able to plot with a map right below you. And it just doesn't stop at this, there is way more that can be offered.

(my bad if this flamed)
With all due respect,
JoWood

JoWood December 17th, 2004 3:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a1337a
I'm going to ignore Dakota, because as is the norm for male S-mods, his contribution is useless to the conversation.
So, JoWood, how about we take an example.
Grand Theft Auto San Andreas, imagine it somehow got a port to the DS. How would your precious 'features' enhance what is already so close to perfect?

First of all I didn't say it would make the game perfect. But I'll equal up to your challenge. Lets take the microphone first, imagine possibilities of being able to reload simply by speaking through the microphone. Other features like talking to your girlfriend while on a date to keep the entertainment bar up. Now the second screen,

(I have to go now. Think about that for a while.)

Ryoutarou December 17th, 2004 3:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a1337a
Yay? You COULD relay on crappy voice recognition software (Sorry, the PS2 did it first with the Socom Headset) or you could press one button to reload.
The second screen has no purpose, really. Like I said, it's a feature great for when games couldn't scroll. But now? Pointless.

Menu or item screens can be kept up on that second screen. For the Pokemon or Zelda games it would create a constantly opened backpack of items which would be easier for some players....but what do I know - -;

Lucifer. December 17th, 2004 3:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue
Menu or item screens can be kept up on that second screen. For the Pokemon or Zelda games it would create a constantly opened backpack of items which would be easier for some players....but what do I know - -;

It'd be perfect for a game like Final Fantasy III. The menu options are displayed on the bottom screen during field events, allowing for instant item switching and saving. It could also double-up as your information/command bar during battles as well, leaving the top screen clutter-free.

Zelda too. No more pausing the game to assign your Hookshot to a button. One tap of the screen and it's at your disposal.

John Denver December 17th, 2004 4:30 PM

JoWood...Sarah...if either of you flame again I'm closing this thread. It happens every single thread!! You can still have a fine argument without insulting each other, geez you two.

And I think the touch screen would be awesome if a game like Ninja Assault was ported to it. Instead of a gun, you would just touch the screen, and things like weapon switch could be on the top screen. I do, however, think that nintendo should have made BOTH screens touch-sensitive, cause it kind of makes the games one-sided.

Carlito-san December 17th, 2004 5:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dakota
Why do you feel the need to insult people who disagree with you?

And have you seen Warioware DS? I don't know when it's coming out in america, but that game uses the touch screen beautifully!

If they made 2 TS,the prices would shoot though the roof.XD
Congrats on returning BTW,D.

But,i have imported it.(Warioware DS)It could not be played ANY
OTHER WAY.Thats a fact.1 minigame,you have to cut a piece of bread in half.Could you do that(that way)on a PS2?No.GC?No.Thats why the DS is so innovative.

Kairi December 17th, 2004 5:18 PM

I think all that’s being said are these new innovations aren’t needed to kepe gaming alive, or even fresh. The “Great” games of recent didn’t need anything more than tried and true power of consoles to be great. By your logic, there’s no point in playing Xbox games, since all they offers is graphics over the DS.

The graphics –are- an important part of gameplay. I imagine if the Gamecube has been released with N64 graphics, people would have been disappointed. Graphics are part of presentation, and that is important.

By far what’s going to be a larger draw for consumers than any other aspect of either of these consoles is developers. Square fans will get a PSP. Not because it has good graphics, but because it has Square.

People who enjoy the licensees Nintendo has such as Metriod will get a DS. And they would do so even if it didn’t have these innovations. Because they want to play a good Metriod game, and Nintendo is the only place to go for that.

Now developer wise, they have to weigh their options before considering to develop for either system. On the DS side they have new methods of input to try. On the PSP they have better graphics and more space for their games.

Look at something like the Atari. Would you still want to play games that look like that? All the NES did was really step up the graphics. Why bother with it? Sure, the NES also had a larger capacity for games. This means they could be more complex by holding more data.

The PSP is the same way. It can hold more data per game, and can present them better. This -is- an appealing aspect to both developer and consumer. This has been proven throughout history.

The DS, however, offers something very new and very risky. Already we’ve seen many failed attempts to utilize its features, with few really successful ones. This doesn’t mean it’ll fail, it just goes to show it’s difficult to use these features as an edge to make use of in the war.

So while trying new things is good, if you don’t have a solid backing, it’ll all fall through.

Also, I realize this post may seem leaned towards the PSP. But rest assured, I despise both of them with equal disgust.

Carlito-san December 17th, 2004 5:22 PM

No,Abby,it doesnt look for the PSP.It has equal points about the DS and PSP.
I agree.

pokejungle December 17th, 2004 5:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kairi
By far what’s going to be a larger draw for consumers than any other aspect of either of these consoles is developers. Square fans will get a PSP. Not because it has good graphics, but because it has Square

Er....get your facts straight. Its been reported SE has put more effort into the DS than the PSP. The PSP has currently very low 3rd party support =/


Quote:

Also, I realize this post may seem leaned towards the PSP. But rest assured, I despise both of them with equal disgust.
Are you a console anarchist now? In my eyes, a true gamer apperciates these new systems both, for their amazing leap forward in the handheld world. I don't know what's disgusting about it. Rebuttle?

Kairi December 17th, 2004 5:36 PM

The Square thing was an example. It could have worked with any PSP 3rd party. The point still stands that if there’s a game or company on either side that’s massively appealing, people will flock to it.

I despise them because of PC, really. ~_~ Otherwise I’m indifferent to them.

pokejungle December 17th, 2004 5:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kairi
I despise them because of PC, really. ~_~ Otherwise I’m indifferent to them.

Just like to be a rock in the flow of what's cool? -_- You sound like the people who turned against Pokemon when it was the "in" thing. >>;

Kairi December 17th, 2004 5:41 PM

And yet here I am, working on a Pokémon message board. My room is lined with Pokémon stuff. It caught my interest. The PSP and DS have not. Furthermore, these threads cause me more time, grief, and work than any other single aspect of the board. As such, I have a little distaste for them.

But that has nothing to do with the systems themselves, so let’s return to that.

John Denver December 17th, 2004 5:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kairi
I despise both of them with equal disgust.

I can kind of feel with you there. I don't despise the two systems, but I don't really like either of them.

But if I had to pick one, I'd say that the DS is the lesser of the two evils.

pokejungle December 17th, 2004 6:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kairi
And yet here I am, working on a Pokémon message board. My room is lined with Pokémon stuff. It caught my interest. The PSP and DS have not. Furthermore, these threads cause me more time, grief, and work than any other single aspect of the board. As such, I have a little distaste for them

You were just BEGGING for a rebuttle. I never said you were aniti-pokemon....x_x I have an AWESOME solution for your problems: IGNORE THOSE THREADS! >>;

Kairi December 17th, 2004 6:03 PM

I’m an admin. It’s my job to deal with these threads. Now stop fighting with me and start discussing the DS/PSP. Last chance.

John Denver December 17th, 2004 6:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokejungle
You were just BEGGING for a rebuttle. I never said you were aniti-pokemon....x_x I have an AWESOME solution for your problems: IGNORE THOSE THREADS! >>;

Sometimes people like a little bit of argument, and you have no idea how hard it is to just ignore these kinds of threads when your the one that is being attacked.

basic, human, nature...

JoWood December 17th, 2004 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a1337a
Yay? You COULD relay on crappy voice recognition software (Sorry, the PS2 did it first with the Socom Headset) or you could press one button to reload.
The second screen has no purpose, really. Like I said, it's a feature great for when games couldn't scroll. But now? Pointless.

This is an innovation to the experience. WOW! Sony did it first with a Socom Headset. What handheld do you see being used on a handheld? *looks around* I don't see any... NOW the second, touch screen.

OF course on San Andreas we will eliminate the need to wear glasses to actually see the points in that little circle at the bottom of the screen and put this below you so you won't have to pause for useless things such as this. How about being able to spray paint your low-rider or car to your liking of design. This can also be done with graffitti on the tags and tattos that you get. You could design your own haircut instead of just buying the designs they give you.
How about being able to touch the screen on the enemies gangs to see their current stats like the percentage of territory they own and etc... How about when you try a home invasion mission, the microphone can pick up sounds that are being made around the console. This engage you more in the game and well as make it more challenging. When swimming, the microphone could make it so that you actually had to breath with the game in order to keep your lung capacity going good. The wardrobe, when you go into a store or your safe house you have to wait until the graphics load to see Carl in the appearance you want. Using the bottom touch screen once Carl walks in the closet you can customize from there and then walk out satisfied without spends a whole day in a clothing store. How about putting extra strategy into the game? Once you complete a task you have to make an escape route using the touch screen and map on the bottom screen; and if that route plan fails then you lose the mission. This would make prima books craved for the best escape routes and etc.

There are tons of possibilities...

Lucifer. December 19th, 2004 7:54 AM

Quote:

from GameSpot
According to dozens of forum posts and lower-end game sites, many of the first batch of PSPs suffered from a variety of defects, including "dead pixels, dead drives, analog sticks not working and even falling off, and even screens with dust and 'air bubbles'," according to Engadget. A more spectacular alleged problem was the so-called "Master of the Flying UMD Guillotine Trick." According to reports--one of which even featured video evidence--if you twist the PSP a certain way, the UMD drive opens, causing the disc to come flying out like a throwing star. Luckily, GameSpot can address both these rumors head on. While in Japan last weekend, GameSpot editors did observe some PSPs with dead pixels, but did not see any evidence of the other defects. As to the flying-disc glitch, we were brave enough to use one of our precious PSP units to test the theory. Amazingly, with just the right touch, out it popped.
Looks like Sony are true to form.

Brittany December 19th, 2004 8:11 AM

Wow, I avoid this thread for a few days, and this is what I have to work with?

Anyway, to Lucifer, we'll always expect for a few systems to have defects. That article didn't specify any ratio, nor does it say if a warrenty can cover for those problems. Until more information is obtained then the majority of those problems are just rumors, as stated in the article itself.

And for the 'twist the PSP problem', they had to have 'just the right touch'. And who knows how many times they tried to do it while abusing that poor handheld :P
Why the heck would you spend your time twisting it anyway?

It is still a shame that all of those problems might be true, but 'might' only goes so far.

John Denver December 20th, 2004 7:07 PM

Why can't sony make their Game Systems as good as their TV's or MP3 players? If the iPod were a game system *drools*

But Sony has had the horrendous rep of having poor hardware mileage. Now before 3 of you come in with the "I've had my playsation1 since it came out and it still works." Well, good for you. Tell that to the millions more of other kids with the complete opposite situation.

Though they are just rumors, and I'm not saying I believe them right away, they are rumors coming from the company with that rap sheet.

Scyther5 December 20th, 2004 8:22 PM

http://psp.ign.com/articles/574/574557p1.html?fromint=1

Theres the hard facts on the PSP battery life. Up to date too.
A tad weak, but none the less Im still getting it.

John Denver December 21st, 2004 4:49 AM

So the battery life is as I thought it'd be, pretty low. But I seriously doubt that this'll stop anyone from buying it. Most individuals will simply buy an adapter or whatnot, and shell out MORE money. >.<

Lucifer. December 21st, 2004 6:46 AM

Poor battery life is a big no-no for me. Most of the time I lose track of the time and end up playing handhelds for ages and ages. So a low battery life isn't going to work in my favour. I don't see why you should have to sacrifice screen brightness and sound to decrease battery usage either.

Saying that though, I'm a Final Fantasy junkie, so I'll be buying the PSP regardless.

Spectrum December 21st, 2004 7:02 AM

As I expected, PSP has a low battery life, so that pretty much destroys my idea of DS emulation porting. That being said, I'm a Pokemon junkie, so I'll officially be getting the DS now.

Carlito-san December 21st, 2004 7:38 AM

Dakota,Sony has been successfully sued for Making their hardware break,so people had to buy more.

IceKitten December 21st, 2004 7:40 AM

Battery life meaning it takes more batteries? (I have a battery recharger so my question may not be relevant)

I'll be taking the DS then >.>

Carlito-san December 21st, 2004 7:42 AM

We'll just go with that,Tig.XD

But,no your question is relevent.

Sycther5,you belive IGN?Ever heard"You cant spell ignorant without IGN"?

Brittany December 21st, 2004 7:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billybob
We'll just go with that,Tig.XD

But,no your question is relevent.

Sycther5,you belive IGN?Ever heard"You cant spell ignorant without IGN"?

?
IGN says that battery life is kinda weak, just as you are all saying. Which confuzzles the heck outta me with what you just said.

Carlito-san December 21st, 2004 7:53 AM

IGN always lies."Cant spell ignorant without IGN"

They all hate the DS.They get payed by sony,I think.

IceKitten December 21st, 2004 7:54 AM

I'm confused about the battery life thing, is it wasting the battery power faster?

Carlito-san December 21st, 2004 8:02 AM

Yes.PSP reports to 5-7 hours,DS is about 10-12,depending on if its GBA or DS.

Brittany December 21st, 2004 8:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billybob
IGN always lies."Cant spell ignorant without IGN"

They all hate the DS.They get payed by sony,I think.

They said PSP has low battery life. Calling them ignorant would mean that PSP has high battery life. You're not really setting a statement with what you just said...

And about the battery life.
It weighs in at Sony's 4-6 hour estimation, with speakers and screen brightness at 100%, and one test with WiFi?

Also keep in mind, Ridge Racers is a with comparable graphics to PS2(thats why they did tests with this), which means heavy processor usage, and that's exactly what Sony said would drain it quickly.

Play a game with a tad bit less quality(FF7 anyone?), without the full screen brightness and speakers at max, and we'll expect more out of it.

It all depends on what you buy. If you're buying a game that uses all of that UMD space to pump out extreme graphics, then draining the battery shouldn't be much of a suprise to you. Get a game that uses all of that UMD space for a longer game, with not-so-extreme graphics, and expect it to not drain so quickly.

IceKitten December 21st, 2004 8:04 AM

I is definately sticking to the DS then :P

Carlito-san December 21st, 2004 8:06 AM

I mean,IGN almost always lies,but not about the PSP's 5-7 hour battery.
This guy on another board got 6 hours,bright to the max,full volume,wifi,on RR.

Lucifer. December 21st, 2004 9:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brittany

Also keep in mind, Ridge Racers is a with comparable graphics to PS2(thats why they did tests with this), which means heavy processor usage, and that's exactly what Sony said would drain it quickly.

Play a game with a tad bit less quality(FF7 anyone?), without the full screen brightness and speakers at max, and we'll expect more out of it.

Well if that's the case, then why did they bother implementing PS2-esq visuals in the first place? If it's going to drain the battery faster then surely they weren't ready to design a machine this powerful.

Also, like I said above - you shouldn't have to sacrifice screen brightness or volume to lower battery usage. If you want a fully-lit screen then you should be able to have it with the bare minimum loss of batt. power.

Brittany December 21st, 2004 9:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucifer
Well if that's the case, then why did they bother implementing PS2-esq visuals in the first place? If it's going to drain the battery faster then surely they weren't ready to design a machine this powerful.

Also, like I said above - you shouldn't have to sacrifice screen brightness or volume to lower battery usage. If you want a fully-lit screen then you should be able to have it with the bare minimum loss of batt. power.

Because some developers want that kinda power for thier game. And also, remember that some games will need great processing power at some points, but not the whole way through. A great example is an RPG. I'm sure that there are different things happening under the hood of your system while your walking around, compared to watching an fmv or battling. Or how-about games like FF7 or 8 where you walk around with one playing in the background?

Thats why they used a game like Ridge Racers, because graphics and power usage is high throughout all of gameplay.

And for Brightness and Sound-
If you need max brightness, then it's obviously night, or you're in a badly lit area. In either of those situations, a power supply is more than likely around. I don't think many kids go out to play at night and bring their gameboys with them.

Sound- ehh, I was basing this off of myself. I don't like people advertising thier handhelds in public when they do this. Thats what headphones and low volume settings are made for. Playing it in private? Then you more than likely have a power supply near.


Btw, is it okay if I call you Lucy? :P

Carlito-san December 21st, 2004 9:55 AM

My friend,he has an imported PSP from Japan.So,he let me play it.(he has RR)
I have to say,it does infact play well.Feels the same as my DS RR.

TRIFORCE89 December 21st, 2004 1:01 PM

In my opinion, neither system is better than the other is. I think it's all personal taste. What one thinks is gimmicky (for either system); another may think is pure genius. The games on the two systems will no doubt be very different, but again what you like depends on yourself. For example, nothing on the PlayStation consoles has ever appealed to me. Nothing has ever made me say, "I want that" except for Kingdom Hearts (note, KH is the only game I want from PS2, but it is not enough of a reason for me to buy the system.). But I love all the Nintendo franchises and they appeal to me, so I buy Nintendo. So, everything boils down to personal taste. All opinion, even if it is based on fact. Everything has pros and cons, both systems have lots of potential.

So, since my post has been about opinions...here's another person's opinion. He's reviewed both systems based on the actual hardware itself. I think I read somewhere in the thread that the PSP has a cover (I've only glanced at this thread really), but the author seems to have ignored that fact. So, there may be some negative feedback in there that can easily be solved with the use of the cover.

PSP
DS

And, I'm not supporting either article. They are merely there for you to read. I have DS, and don't plan on buying PSP (if the PS2 didn't appeal to me, why would I buy the pocket version?), but that doesn't mean I think the DS is better or that I agree with the articles I supplied. For instance, in PSP article it says, "Sony has officially encouraged ports for the new hardware to minimize development time and costs. Same games, new media; a curse we as gamers seem unable to shed." I don't see the point in that criticism as Nintendo's doing the exact same thing (Super Mario 64 DS) and has been with the GBA too. :\

Lucifer. December 21st, 2004 1:23 PM

I don't see what all the fuss is about ports. As long as they're released a fair few years after the original then I think they're a great idea.

pokejungle December 22nd, 2004 5:59 PM

ya, I know loads of people who are drooling at the thought of OoT on the DS! [Let's hope Nintendo actually makes it...]

I can't say that the PSP is good if it can't even handle a good game without cutting down on some other feature. i wouldn't waste my money =/

Kairi December 22nd, 2004 6:02 PM

I wouldn’t waste my money on either of them. XP But that’s just my opinion. I think they’re both flawed, over-hyped systems and the real action is still in the consoles, on the GBA, and on the PC.

pokejungle December 22nd, 2004 6:57 PM

I've been playing Fire Emblem more than my DS lately. That's only because I've temporarily misplaced my Mario 64 game ;_;

TRIFORCE89 December 23rd, 2004 7:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokejungle
ya, I know loads of people who are drooling at the thought of OoT on the DS! [Let's hope Nintendo actually makes it...]

I can't say that the PSP is good if it can't even handle a good game without cutting down on some other feature. i wouldn't waste my money =/

Surprisingly enough, I'm not in that list. Having it released twice on the GCN made it loose it's future fun value. It's been milked dry. Although...if it were to come out, I'd still buy it. Lol

Carlito-san December 23rd, 2004 7:14 PM

Sorry to burst your bubble,but there is NO OOT on the DS!Nintendo know when to stop milking a game.

Lucifer. December 24th, 2004 2:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRIFORCE89
Having it released twice on the GCN made it loose it's future fun value.

Those two GC releases were limited edition. It's yet to receive a port that you can readily buy in the shops.

Dawson December 24th, 2004 4:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billybob
Sorry to burst your bubble,but there is NO OOT on the DS!Nintendo know when to stop milking a game.

Behold Super Mario 3. Released on the NES, SNES and GBA. Donkey Kong Country, released on the SNES, GBC and GBA. There's nothing to stop them doing the same with other games. I'm personally expecting a Luigi's Mansion port since the use of the stylus will make it easier in controlling the poltergust.

©H®Ï§ December 24th, 2004 6:28 AM

DS is better because it has more games for it including Pokemon Dash.

Brittany December 24th, 2004 6:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ©H®Ï§
DS is better because it has more games for it including Pokemon Dash.

It doesn't really have more games for it. This is definetly one of those 'wait-and-see' things at the moment.

PSP has many more 3rd party developers for it while Nintendo makes a larger portion of thier own games. I think it depends on whether or not Nintendo can pull through with production/ports of their own games.

Carlito-san December 24th, 2004 6:55 AM

Brit,how many 3rd party is for the PSP?Around 12.DS?Around 16.

There will be no LM.Ninty doesnt like to DOWNGRADE graphics to put a GC game on a handheld.

Lucifer. December 24th, 2004 9:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brittany
I think it depends on whether or not Nintendo can pull through with production/ports of their own games.

I don't think this is going to be another Gamecube-style case, where the console's success depends largely on Nintendo's own games.

I don't know the exact figures or anything. If anyone wants to link to a (reliable) source stating which developers are on-board with which machine, then by all means. :dead:

Kairi December 24th, 2004 9:09 AM

Ugh, I don’t want to see that GCN launch title as a port. No offense to those who like it, but it was so short and bleh. x_x;

Lucifer: I’ve seen stores reselling them everywhere. Just cause they’re not supposed to doesn’t mean they won’t. XP Besides, it’s another case, like SM64, where I think the lack of a stick and the presence of the stylus would make it more difficult to play.

Lucifer. December 24th, 2004 9:26 AM

I like Luigi's Mansion. I don't even see the problem with its length to be honest. The game would've got boring had it gone on for longer than it did.

Saying that, though. I got it when the GC was launched here in May 2002, and didn't even give it a real go until last November when I decided to dig it out again. XD

John Denver December 24th, 2004 7:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brittany
It doesn't really have more games for it. This is definetly one of those 'wait-and-see' things at the moment.

PSP has many more 3rd party developers for it while Nintendo makes a larger portion of thier own games. I think it depends on whether or not Nintendo can pull through with production/ports of their own games.

:$:$

Actually Brit, Nintendo has more 3rd part developers. Not a HUGE amount more, but they do have more 3rd party support...

Just, clearing up a detail is all...

Kairi December 24th, 2004 7:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucifer
I like Luigi's Mansion. I don't even see the problem with its length to be honest. The game would've got boring had it gone on for longer than it did.

Saying that, though. I got it when the GC was launched here in May 2002, and didn't even give it a real go until last November when I decided to dig it out again. XD

I didn’t actually finish the game until a year or two after I got it, either. XD

I blame melee. *return to topic*

TRIFORCE89 December 24th, 2004 8:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kairi
Ugh, I don’t want to see that GCN launch title as a port. No offense to those who like it, but it was so short and bleh. x_x;

Lucifer: I’ve seen stores reselling them everywhere. Just cause they’re not supposed to doesn’t mean they won’t. XP Besides, it’s another case, like SM64, where I think the lack of a stick and the presence of the stylus would make it more difficult to play.

I don't like using the stylus. I use that thumb thingy instead. It's like using a control stick, just not. And with Metroid, I don't use or have any appeal in the tab to shoot method. That seems annoying. Instead I use the touch screen to aim, that's all. And again, I use the thumb thing instead of the stylus. :\

I brought my DS to my relatives house. I had all the grownup swarming around me with amazement filled looks. The Halo fan liked the Metroid demo a lot.O_O

pokejungle December 29th, 2004 10:31 PM

Why the DS Will Win

by: Casey Ayers
Disclaimer: Note that the views expressed in this article are solely the opinions of the author, and in no way reflect the official positions of DSAdvanced or the Advanced Media Network.


Why The DS Will Win



We’re a little less than a month out from the launch of the Nintendo Dual-Screen. The launch of the Playstation Portable in the United States remains at least four months away. I’m going to make the projection already that the DS will win- not by a few market share points, not even sizably. It will be a crushing defeat, and here I shall do my best to explain why. Some reasons you may have heard before elsewhere, others I like to think are newer or more original to myself in past editorials. All of these, however, are integral points as to why the PSP will lose direly.


PRICE

I’ve got to say, this may be the single most important reason why the PSP will fail where the DS will succeed. I was personally confused after the Nintendo Gamers’ Summit at which the DS’s price was unveiled- I thought it was $179. I thought this price was incredibly low, accounting for the fact that two software titles are included. I was astounded when I found out that I had overpriced the system by another thirty dollars. $149 is a trivial price for the overall package- merely the launch price of the Game Boy Advance. Think about this- you get the ARM7 and one of the screens, essentially the GBA hardware, for $75. You only get another screen and the graphical power of an N64 included for the other $75. Really, if you think about the sheer amount of hardware included, the price is a steal- substitute in whatever other variables for those numbers you like, perhaps $50/$99, and it may seem like an even better deal to you. Why does it seem to me that even at this low price point, Nintendo has found a way to make money on the system right out of the gate, or they plan to lose a trivial amount offset by one or two game sales?

The PSP, however, finds itself in a very tight spot on this issue. I have been told that Sony had a press conference scheduled for the same day as Nintendo’s Gamers’ Summit regarding the PSP, and possibly a price point. This conference was allegedly cancelled shortly after the initial batch of data- including price point, the bonus software, and release date of the DS- was announced from Redmond. Like I say, I don’t personally have hard proof of this, but it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if this were the case. Why would Sony do this? They’re running away from their impending financial train-wreck, the PSP. This is even more true following the release of their price information. At the price of $185, Sony is frankly out of their da*n minds.

For the purposes of calculation, I’ll figure that the PSP costs Sony $320 per unit to manufacture- a conservative estimate. Now, figure in the costs for deployment and then what the wholesale cost is to retailers- we’ll say it’s fairly high, around $165. So, Sony recoups $165 per console. This is a $155 dollar loss per unit. Think about it this way: if Sony comes even close to their sales projections- say three million units are sold within the first year, Sony will have lost almost half a BILLION dollars. Frankly, this is financial suicide the likes of which have NEVER been seen in the industry. Not even Microsoft went this far- they only lost at most $100 per system near launch, and that number has gone down over time. The most expensive parts in the PSP, the screen and battery, will not go down in price over time as more are produced (for Microsoft, the processor and graphics chip costs, as well as the hard drive cost, went down over time.) In fact, there’s evidence that the price of the LCD may even go up, as there’s a shortage of the materials needed to make them right now.

All of this leaves Sony in a constant tailspin financially- a loss they can’t afford to make up through other product lines. If you take a close look at Sony’s financials, they’ve been hemorrhaging money on their Trinitron and Wega TV lines for some time now, and recently had to discontinue their Clié line of PDAs due to lack of profitability. The new Walkman is being trounced by the iPod. Their music store is sagging in the face of iTunes, due mainly to very restrictive rights and Sony’s asinine insistence on converting all MP3s to their standard format (to be fair, it seems this may change for future iterations). You know what’s sustained Sony financially for the past two or three years? The Playstation 2. As that console ages and the market simply gets saturated, Sony’s profitable standby is beginning to fade. The PS3 won’t hit the market for another two years at least, leaving the PSP to bring in much needed cash. Losing five hundred million dollars by your own projections in the first year worldwide doesn’t exactly accomplish this.

Shareholders simply won’t stand for financial indiscretion of this magnitude. As the analyst reports come out, favoring Nintendo if only for their stranglehold of this Christmas, they will begin to criticize Sony’s outlook on sales. To combat this, Sony needs to woo the analysts quickly- today’s launch lineup, though numerous, only has two or three big-hitting titles. They need to fix this for the US release; table-top and puzzler games won’t suffice. Assuming negative analysis begins to emerge, combined with the prospect of losing money, it will be made to seem they’ve lost the war before it began. This is not a winning strategy. Either Sony’s accountants know of arithmetic magic far past my level of comprehension, or they think they’ve got one he*l of an Investor’s Relations team. Of course, I’ve not even accounted for the money involved in marketing the product- add a couple tens of million of dollars to the overall launch/sustain costs there.

This type of money crunch is clearly unacceptable to all involved. So, Sony is only left with one option- coercing developers. Expect the royalty and manufacturing fees to be astronomical on the PSP. Sony will most likely force PS2 developers to release games for the PSP in order to continue releasing PS2 games- much like Nintendo did to Square-Enix with Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles, except in reversse. At its new $185 price point, Sony will undoubtedly sell a sizable number of PSPs at launch, giving them the chance to poke the developers in the eye. ”My way or the highway, buddy…” will be the mantra. And in this decision, I think that you may see developers choose the highway; remember that this kind of strategy is what lost Nintendo its home-console crown. Clearly from the simple business standpoint, Sony is grasping for straws that don’t exist, preferring to weave themselves in a web of financial deception than cede the day to Nintendo.

SYSTEM
I’ve seen the videos of the DS in action, side by side with videos of the PSP. The PSP is admittedly very impressive in its graphical prowess- but that’s its downfall. This is crazy, you say- let me clarify: the graphics won’t kill the system, but the side effects will. Three major side effects will plague the PSP:


1) Battery Life

First and foremost, the battery life of the PSP is despicable. There, I said it. It’s not Sony’s fault, understand- there isn’t battery technology with the capacity, stamina, voltage output, size, and right price point for the PSP anywhere in the world, and it won’t be another ten years until there is. The best hope for Sony are the new supercapacitors being developed by Honeywell- essentially batteries that can fully charge in seconds, rather than hours or at best minutes. Next to that, some sort of photovoltaic solar cells that could be used as the PSP’s casing would be preferred. It’d be nice to use fuel cells, but they’re too expensive, big, and have the tendency to explode. Now I know this all sounds funny to you, but I’m serious (relatively)- a portable system isn’t portable if its battery lasts two hours. I can hear some of you now: “Sony claims it’ll have up to three to six hours of on-time, though!”. Sure, maybe if the system’s on standby, with the screen off, and no disc in, the wireless disabled, and you don’t hit any buttons.

The battery-use of keeping the UMDs spinning, in addition to the high-power, high-range WiFi, added to keeping that really awesome screen going is incredible. If a developer does a bang-up job with dumping disc information into memory and letting the discs spin down, you can probably add an hour or two- but it’s still not even close to enough.
I don’t know how Nintendo managed to keep the battery life so high with the DS, considering the fact that it’s running two backlit screens- I believe this is truly telling of just how damaging disc-use is to battery life. Even from Nintendo, however, I’m slightly skeptical of these numbers- I’m almost positive the 8-10 hours predicted refer to using the system without wireless use. However, even here Nintendo has an advantage- their proprietary wireless system for short-range linkups is very similar to Bluetooth, in data speeds, frequency, and low-power consumption. So yes, WiFi will tend to cannibalize your battery life, but you’ll be using the proprietary wireless far more with the DS, methinks.


2) Development Issues

Developer interest is another big issue where the DS edges out the PSP. The DS, Nintendo claims, stands for “Developer’s System” as much as it stands for “Dual-Screen”. Well, we’ll see if that’s the case, but already we’re seeing promising signs. For one, if you ask developers about the DS, almost all of the quality studios seem genuinely excited to see what they can do with the system. Nintendo has truly provided developers with a funbox of tools- touch screen, two screens, wireless, dual cartridge use, 3D/2D graphics, etc. Not many developers will utilize all of these tools, but almost all of them will utilize at least one. Frankly, they’re all grand gimmicks- but people love gimmicks, and if the gimmicks make the games more fun, I’m all for it. After all, the analog stick, rumble pak, and transfer pak were all gimmicks in their day, were they not?

However, Nintendo faces a double-edged sword in that developers will never be able to merely make a port of a PSP game for the DS- any ports would have to be so heavily reworked that they’d basically be new games. Assuming the DS grabs the lion’s share of the market, this is great news, as it will serve to further choke off the PSP. However, if the PSP somehow makes a sizable impact, this could come back to haunt Nintendo. Of course, I’ve not touched on perhaps the most important element- portable developers have used Nintendo’s development kits for years. I assume that Nintendo has made sure development tools are similar to the GBA’s in many ways, and this will make it much easier for developers to adapt to the new system.

Sony has made the argument that the PSP is easy to develop for, as well. From what I can tell, their idea of easy is making PSP development as similar to the PS2 as possible. Don’t get me wrong- this definitely has advantages. Developers have been pumping out games for the PS2 for years now. This doesn’t mean that it’s easy, though- the PS2 is the most difficult of the current systems to develop for, especially now that Microsoft has developed XNA. What Sony really means is that development will be easier for those with experience on the PS2. Where does this leave developers? Well, they have two choices- they can take their portable-system developers and waste valuable time training them on PS2 intricacies, or they can take their PS2 teams and shift their focus to PSP. This has multiple repercussions. If they choose to retrain their portable teams, this wastes both time and money. If they shift their PS2 teams to the PSP, either the amount of PS2 titles will decrease, or the systems will forever be caught in a synergetic deadlock of simultaneous releases of the same title. Sony has already said this won’t be acceptable, leaving developers in a financial sticky spot.

In addition to this simple case for developer interest is developer cost. Did you know that it costs less for developers to manufacture DS titles than GBA titles now? This is including a recent drop in Nintendo’s GBA surcharges, too. Nintendo’s cutting Sony’s legs out from under them on this issue- they’re realizing (for once) that they may lose a buck here to pick up five or ten later on. Sony’s UMD format could potentially pose a threat in this area, as discs are much cheaper to manufacture. However, Nintendo claims that the new “Game Cards” are much cheaper to manufacture than traditional cartridges. This remains to be seen. Nintendo’s best bet is to keep their manufacturing royalties low enough to make the cost difference negligible- and make sure it stays that way, lest risk losing developer confidence, which will be unimaginably important in this race.

3) Feasibility of Gameplay
The feasibility of gameplay on the PSP is Sony’s biggest issue. By this, I mean the ability for a gamer to enjoy themselves for as little as fifteen or thirty minutes at a time. So far the games we’ve seen for the PSP have all been incredibly impressive- Metal Gear Acid and Gran Turismo 4 are great examples. There’s a problem with these, however- they’re console games in the sense that gamers must invest a sizable amount of time each time they play to progress or have much enjoyment. This has probably been the point that Nintendo has most vocally criticized Sony on- they don’t seem to understand what type of game portable gamers are looking for. I know that personally, my average game time on my SP for any given session is between 15 and 45 minutes. It may take a good five minutes of that time to fully configure and load up a race on GT4 if your as customize-savvy as me!

For those wondering why Nintendo’s examples of gameplay have all seemed short and sweet, they’re trying to bring this point home. Games like Wario Ware and Yoshi’s Touch and Go are certainly not enthralling masterpieces that will keep you involved for hours at a time. These are examples of games at their purest form- just fun little ditties that keep you entertained for short amounts of time. I think Miyamoto and Co. truly believe that portable gamers aren’t looking to sit down and play for hours at a time- they’re looking for maybe a half hour of entertainment on the bus ride to school or work.

Portable gamers look for a few minutes of fun waiting in a long line, in dead time between classes, or for a short while during their lunch break. Sony’s newly announced offering that might seem to be aiming for this timeframe are weak indeed. Mahjongg? Board Games? That’s what cell phones are for. On this issue, Sony’s got another problem- even if I’m dead wrong, and the portable market’s absolutely dying or the chance to sit hunched over or stand playing a portable system for hours at a time, they won’t be able to do it on the PSP, because the battery will die on them.

OTHER THOUGHTS

There’s a few other points that I think are important to stress:

I cannot emphasize enough the significance I find in Sony’s single weak salvo a day or so ago after months of veritable silence. This price point, while a bombshell, is by no means smart business, and I think will hurt Sony much more in the long run that it will help. They can say all day long that the DS isn’t a competitor, but they know as well as anyone else that it certainly is- the typical mainstream gamer does not by multiple consoles, and they won’t buy multiple portables, either, if only for the fact they simply don’t have the pocket room. Sony’s recent announcement affirms this point. I believe that Sony is running scared now because they’re slowly realizing some of the points I’ve made previously.

Nintendo has changed. Don’t believe me? Look back to the marketing campaigns of a year or two ago versus today. I think what finally woke them up is when the Gamecube did not absolutely dominate the market in 2002 when Mario, Metroid, Star Fox, Zelda, and others all hit the market within six months or so. They realized the old formula was no longer working. Wonder why we haven’t seen another Mario game on the ‘Cube? Miyamoto-san also realizes it’s time for change. He’s spending as much time as he needs to make sure that this next iteration of our favorite plumber is as revolutionary as Mario 64. Want proof? Look at the new Zelda. If that doesn’t signify a paradigm shift in the corporate culture, I don’t know what does. How about the new internet marketing ploy for Metroid Prime 2? Though limited, it takes direct pot-shots at Halo 2, a move almost as suicidal as the PSP’s price point in the month before Halo 2’s release as the most-hyped game of the year! How about the new DS marketing campaign? “Touching is good" Is this the same Nintendo behind the infamous Super Mario Sunshine “Diaper” commercials? I think not. I think Nintendo’s marketing as a whole has improved by leaps and bounds in the last few months since E3. As Nintendo supporters, we need to hope that they continue to become more sharp and innovative in their marketing- Nintendo’s going to need all the firepower it can get.

Most importantly, Nintendo is hiding something. Regarding the DS, something’s not quite right yet. I can’t put my finger right on it, but there’s something integral missing from the puzzle, something that will only be revealed in time. I’d bet the farm if I had one that Nintendo’s hiding an extra ace, which is the only way to explain their almost brash confidence in the face of an insidious foe like Sony. Perhaps Warp Pipe’s Demasked is the secret being withheld, or maybe not- just know that Nintendo’s not only taking the DS seriously, they’re betting the entire future of their company on it. I haven’t seen much outside of broad philosophy thus far that could possibly connect the DS to the future of the “Revolution”, and yet Nintendo continues to harp this point. I promise you, something’s up. Hopefully we’ll figure out what soon.

IN CONCLUSION

Sony’s announcement troubled me at first. I’ve done my best in this article to wipe out any fanboyistic tendencies and rather rely completely on facts and educated analysis; however, like you, when Sony made their announcement, I felt my heart drop a bit. However, I was over this within the hour. As I realized how incredibly absurd the whole idea of the PSP is, the more confident I feel. As should you. I like to think of this article as a spark-point for debate- a big assertion meant to be argued with. Agree with my platform? Disagree? Let me know, either in the reader’s comment box below or at the accompanying thread on the forums. In the end, all the analysis in the world doesn’t matter- the fans and consumers will decide this fight. Game on.

JoWood December 29th, 2004 10:35 PM

I know, I deleted mine, now you look like a fool. I'll delete this once you delete that.

pokejungle December 29th, 2004 10:44 PM

Just edit that post and say something about how bad the PSP is =P

I personally agree whole-heartedly with taht article.

pokejungle December 29th, 2004 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarah
You know, sometimes, it's nice to write your own articles.

I just found this one. Sometimes its nice to be polite.



The price can be important though. Seems that Sony Fangirls take this as a big threat anyway.

Shadow December 30th, 2004 9:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a1337a
You know, sometimes, it's nice to write your own articles.

You know, its not nice to flame right after reporting someone for it ^.^ And it's not plageurism if you give proper credit. And I see proper credit.

You say price isn't important, but the thing is, it is. Parents will buy whatever is cheapest. You can't deny that. Unless the parent in question is Bill Gates or George Bush or some other parent rolling in a lot of money, they're going to buy whatever is cheapest.

And your local example doesn't always coincide with that of other places. And why are you comparing the DS to Gamecube, when its more like the GBA? Seems pretty basic to me. The DS is a new GB so it seems like pretty common sense to compare it to the GBA instead of the GCN. Especially when the article does that as well. At present, and at launch, the GBA was cheaper then all other systems and sells more then the other systems.

Carlito-san December 30th, 2004 9:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow

You know, its not nice to flame right after reporting someone for it ^.^ And it's not plageurism if you give proper credit. And I see proper credit.

You say price isn't important, but the thing is, it is. Parents will buy whatever is cheapest. You can't deny that. Unless the parent in question is Bill Gates or George Bush or some other parent rolling in a lot of money, they're going to buy whatever is cheapest.

And your local example doesn't always coincide with that of other places. And why are you comparing the DS to Gamecube, when its more like the GBA? Seems pretty basic to me. The DS is a new GB so it seems like pretty common sense to compare it to the GBA instead of the GCN. Especially when the article does that as well. At present, and at launch, the GBA was cheaper then all other systems and sells more then the other systems.

Correction.The DS is nota new GB.It's a 3rd pillar.XDI agree with PJ,Shadow,and the article.Price does matter.

JoWood December 30th, 2004 12:13 PM

Sorry if this isn't adding to the bickering, but has Nintendo anounced any other skins for the DS?

Carlito-san December 30th, 2004 12:57 PM

Right.Ok.Look at my 6 year old brother.When we go to EB games,he wants a new game.He has tandrums,everything.But my mom only lets him get a used game.As they are 30$ cheaper.Price does matter.

Carlito-san December 30th, 2004 1:24 PM

Ok,if you say so.Skins?You can buy them from somewhere,PM me to get the link,Nintendo is probably relesing more colors.

Jess December 30th, 2004 1:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billybob
Right.Ok.Look at my 6 year old brother.When we go to EB games,he wants a new game.He has tandrums,everything.But my mom only lets him get a used game.As they are 30$ cheaper.Price does matter.

I never seen any kind of game sold for $20 that wasn`t used o.O
EBgames sells new games for $49.99 for Nintendo Gamecube,XBox and PlayStation2.

Carlito-san December 30th, 2004 1:27 PM

I meant he got the Used games.>.<

Jess December 30th, 2004 1:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billybob
I meant he got the Used games.>.<

I thought you ment new game o.O

---
Also on the Poll I voted DS :)

Lucifer. December 30th, 2004 1:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billybob
Correction.The DS is nota new GB.It's a 3rd pillar.

That's what Nintendo wants, but in reality it's highly unlikely that the GBA can run side-by-side with the DS for long.

Carlito-san December 30th, 2004 1:52 PM

Wanna hear a quote from my stupid,stupid friend?"Nintendo better do something about that DS,the GBA is getting blown out of the water by it."

John Denver December 30th, 2004 2:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow

You know, its not nice to flame right after reporting someone for it ^.^ And it's not plageurism if you give proper credit. And I see proper credit.

You say price isn't important, but the thing is, it is. Parents will buy whatever is cheapest. You can't deny that. Unless the parent in question is Bill Gates or George Bush or some other parent rolling in a lot of money, they're going to buy whatever is cheapest.

And your local example doesn't always coincide with that of other places. And why are you comparing the DS to Gamecube, when its more like the GBA? Seems pretty basic to me. The DS is a new GB so it seems like pretty common sense to compare it to the GBA instead of the GCN. Especially when the article does that as well. At present, and at launch, the GBA was cheaper then all other systems and sells more then the other systems.

She uh, didn't really flame anyone Shadow <_<

But I do agree that price does matter a bit. And nintendo said it themselves, a handheld game should always cost less than a console game. Why pay $50 for GT4 on a PSP when you can pay $50 for GT4 on PS2 with better graphics/features/everything else?

But, as else said, price doesn't matter in THIS instance. The difference in prices between the PSP and DS aren't really THAT huge. Frankly, I think both systems suck >.<

But the onlyOnlyONLYONLYONLY!! reason I would get a DS over a PSP is because it's Nintendo. Sooner or later, Nintendo always pulls away from the pack and does something new and cool which always appeals to me. And I hope they do that for the DS.

Shadow December 30th, 2004 2:41 PM

1 -
Quote:

You know, sometimes, it's nice to write your own articles.
I know a lot of people who would take a sarcastic remark such as that as flaming.

2 - Once again a1337a, THE DS IS A HAND-HELD, IT ISN'T COMPARABLE TO NON-HANDHELD CONSOLES.

3 - Are you currently living with parents in the US (bigger market then Austrailia)? No... Parents nowadays buy what's cheapest cause we're all broke thanks to Mr. George W. Bush for making the US dollar near worthless. *leaves politics* The typical American parent thinks that all video games are alike and buys whatever is cheaper.

John Denver December 30th, 2004 2:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow
1 - I know a lot of people who would take a sarcastic remark such as that as flaming.

2 - Once again a1337a, THE DS IS A HAND-HELD, IT ISN'T COMPARABLE TO NON-HANDHELD CONSOLES.

3 - Are you currently living with parents in the US (bigger market then Austrailia)? No... Parents nowadays buy what's cheapest cause we're all broke thanks to Mr. George W. Bush for making the US dollar near worthless. *leaves politics* The typical American parent thinks that all video games are alike and buys whatever is cheaper.

Or until you come of age

*points to self and everyone else with jobs*

You begin to buy your own games ;)

the skate board kid December 30th, 2004 3:04 PM

DS all the way man, all the way.

Kairi December 30th, 2004 4:23 PM

With Shadow, I disagree. A ton of people will point out to you the GBA sells better than the PS2 (such as yourself), as proof of Nintendo’s power. Especially since these stupid handhelds, the DS and PSP, are trying to be consoles on wheels, they can be judged as such.
And if parents really do see all video games as the same, as you say, why would it matter if it’s portable or not? If price matters for consoles and you lump them altogether as video games, it’ll matter for handhelds too.


I’d just rather Nintendo and Sony keep their noses out of this business of 3D handhelds. The GBA has an awesome presentation of 2D games, better than has been achieved elsewhere. And now the DS wants to reintroduce us to dated graphics, and the PSP is an attempt to break into the market. Bleh. The DS is like the Ngage in that it asks its developers to overstep the not quite powerful enough boundaries of their system, and make up for it with some other features. We have better technology available than what the DS is using. Graphics may or may not matter, but not giving more potential is just stupid.


[Graphics rant] And they do matter, IMO. There have been great games on consoles with inferior graphics. But those kinds of games would have been better, and more frequent, if they were able to be presented better. And I imagine had you shown any of those developers at the time vastly superior hardware, they’d use it. Cause they want to polish their game as much as they can, and graphics do that.[/rant]

Also seems like a good time to remind you, that 99% of the sales of the DS and PSP aren’t coming from super educated consumers. Truth is this argument can never sway people from their side. Because the reasons people choose sides are more effective than any facts, any proof. Sony knows that. Nintendo does, too. They don’t care about you. They want your money, and they’re trying to get it with these little toys. Succeeding, too. Because be it marketing, blind faith, friends and family, or whatever, the “ignorant” share of the market makes the choices that decide failure or success.

Brittany December 30th, 2004 4:43 PM

Hmm.
I was thinking of tackling pokejungle's huge article, but:
A. I'm too lazy
B. I'd probably flame alot
C. Pointless, considering the crowd it would be directed at.

Instead, I'll just stand by and be boring.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow
Are you currently living with parents in the US (bigger market then Austrailia)? No... Parents nowadays buy what's cheapest cause we're all broke thanks to Mr. George W. Bush for making the US dollar near worthless. *leaves politics* The typical American parent thinks that all video games are alike and buys whatever is cheaper.

I agree with you on the Bush part :P
But lets get serious, no matter how bad of a condition the US is in compared to previous times, it's still a spoiled nation. Price does have an impact, but when compitition is as close as it is now, it stands second to personal preferance. Considering GCN sales vs PS2, or even Xbox, they're all prime examples of why price comes secondary.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Dakota
But I do agree that price does matter a bit. And nintendo said it themselves, a handheld game should always cost less than a console game. Why pay $50 for GT4 on a PSP when you can pay $50 for GT4 on PS2 with better graphics/features/everything else?

Portability, wireless multiplayer, your own screen :P

Trikip December 30th, 2004 4:59 PM

I'm going to vote for Nintendo DS for sure, since I personally dislike sony very highly.

Shadow December 30th, 2004 5:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brittany
[font=arial]Portability, wireless multiplayer, your own screen :P

Low battery life, worse graphics, lots of wasted money on a new system, less extras, less cars, no vibration (like a dual-shock controller <.< you sickos that think of it the other way), no analog sticks, no stereo surround sound... Seems the negatives outway the positives =p Keep your PS2 and get a DS.

Carlito-san December 30th, 2004 5:31 PM

So,Shadow,are you on me and 50 other people's sides?(the Ds's)

Spartan_117 December 30th, 2004 11:12 PM

I say psp is better.Its got better grafics

Shadow December 30th, 2004 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spartan_117
I say psp is better.Its got better grafics

*le sigh*
Graphics isn't the most important thing in gaming. A game may have the most superior graphics, but play like the vomit my dog threw up, the ate, threw up, ate, repeat, repeat. Likewise, a game might look like said vomit and be the most fantastic game storywise, re-playability-wise, and fun-wise (look its 2:30 AM, I can't think of good words........ or good examples either it seems >.> I'm referring to a dog [who I hated] which we got rid of due to moving several years ago).

Kairi December 31st, 2004 3:20 AM

Or it could be a game about throwing a ball for a dog with bad graphics, too. XP

Trikip December 31st, 2004 8:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow
*le sigh*
Graphics isn't the most important thing in gaming. A game may have the most superior graphics, but play like the vomit my dog threw up, the ate, threw up, ate, repeat, repeat. Likewise, a game might look like said vomit and be the most fantastic game storywise, re-playability-wise, and fun-wise (look its 2:30 AM, I can't think of good words........ or good examples either it seems >.> I'm referring to a dog [who I hated] which we got rid of due to moving several years ago).

Yeah, A Series for Unfortuanate Events (I spelled that wrong XD) the game for example. It has great graphics but it's a horrible game because the tasks are so easy.

Carlito-san December 31st, 2004 9:27 AM

Let's make a comparison:

Graphics: PSP
Innovation: DS,but the PSP has some props for sticking music/UMD movies
Sound: DS(I heard the PSP has crappy sound)
Gameplay: DS
Support: DS
Durablity: DS
Media: PSP

There we go.

Brittany December 31st, 2004 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billybob
Let's make a comparison:

Graphics: PSP
Innovation: DS,but the PSP has some props for sticking music/UMD movies
Sound: DS(I heard the PSP has crappy sound)
Gameplay: DS
Support: DS
Durablity: DS
Media: PSP

There we go.

I disagree.

Graphics(trivial aspect to some): PSP
Innovation: Tied? Personally, PSP
Sound: PSP
Gameplay: My personal preferance, PSP
Support: Around the same
Durability: I found DS's touch screen to be durable, and the system to not have any immediate flaws in durability, but it stands the same for PSP.
Media: PSP

I tied innovation, because I don't really care for DS's 'features'. This is just personal preferance.

DS's sound is great for a n64 quality game, and that's exactly what it is- a n64 quality game. Ridge Racer or Mario 64 for DS can't really compare to the sound of Ridge Racer on PSP.

By support, I take it that you mean game developers. And with that, PSP takes the cake. Most of Nintendo's support comes from themselves anyway, so they're tied in my view.


*Chikorita* December 31st, 2004 10:30 AM

^I would have to disagree about your support statement for the Nintendo DS. The DS apparently has over 100 Third-party developers backing it up. =/

pokejungle December 31st, 2004 11:07 AM

That's correct. It's already been proven that 3rd parties aren't jumping on the PSP bandwagon very fast =/

Kairi- The rest of us want 3D graphics. You can have your 2D out-dated graphics any day of the week. You think that DS games are just N64 throwbacks, well, they sure beat the GBA games. Ever played SM64DS? It rocks. Favorite handheld game.

Brittany- Try tackling the article ^_~

Sales largely depend on the company, and believe me, there are HUNDREDS of nintendo fanppl just saving up right now. The DS is one of the greatest handhelds ever thought up, and [nohardfeelings]anyone who doesn't like the DS/PSP can grab their NES and leave =P[/nohardfeelings]

Carlito-san December 31st, 2004 11:21 AM

Obiously,Me and you are both biased.We need someone unbiased to compare the 2.

*Chikorita* December 31st, 2004 12:13 PM

I completely agree with your post Pokejungle. ^^ And add me into the biased group billybob, becuase I defenitely am about the DS. XD


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