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Barrels you can also sell your daughter into slavery, shes worth more if shes a virgin though.
EDIT Heres what i was looking for barrels. It has the verses named so you can check them out. Credit: The interwebz 1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odour for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbours. They claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them? 2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her? 3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offence. 4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians? 5. I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2. The passage clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself? 6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination? 7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here? 8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they die? 9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves? 10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14) All the links link back to the page I found it and have what the verses are. |
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...But we're getting away from the main point - that, as Frosty said, those passages no longer apply to the vast majority of Christians. However. In the New Testament, I've found this: '(26) Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. (27) In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.' If this does still apply, it sums up one of the biggest reasons for my lack of belief in God. EDIT: Found something else, guys... Here's what I'd consider to be the most important parts. Quote:
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This was a flaw I've always thought about with religion's view on homosexuality, but I've never really had an opportunity to bring it up. It goes unquestioned (at least in circles in which people have brains) that homosexuality is perfectly natural. But even if it weren't natural, why on earth should that mean that it's not acceptable? Why is it that when it comes to religion, everything has to be "natural" to be given the holy A-O-K?
There is far too much emphasis on what's 'normal' or 'common'. |
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*Their definition of natural. |
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My mom would talk about how "The Gays" were doing this or that all the time, as if they're some evil organization. |
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And did you talk to your mother about that? Or did you just go along with it? |
My mom thinks the gays stole the rainbow but that's all. I don't think she's actually homophobic, but when she was a property manager for an apartment complex she put up rainbow flags because she thought they were pretty and was annoyed that everyone kept talking about them as if they implied something about gay rights or something like that, lol.
What's interesting is the "other person" mentality. If you ask someone who says that marriage would be destroyed about their own marriage, they'll claim that their marriage won't be lessened, but other peoples' marriages will be destroyed. It's a claim of the 'other' - they're smart enough/their marriage is strong enough, but other people's aren't. |
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Everybody just needs to focus on their own marriage and leave everybody else the hell alone. And Mr. Pope, you don't even get to have a husband marriage, so get your big bony finger off the entire concept because it has nothing to do with you. |
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Of course, I could be wrong, but I have enough faith in the human race to believe that the proportion of people who actively decide to become intolerant of homosexuality because they read a passage denouncing it right underneath one encouraging the stoning of your own children is very small indeed. Most of us would take that whole chapter - if not the entire book - with rather a large pinch of salt after that, methinks. Quote:
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Well they wouldn't break down, it is ridiculous to even think that. I figured that much went without saying though, so that's why my go-to place was "everybody needs to mind their own business" instead xD
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When I came out to my mom she stopped talking about gays altogether. |
@Barrels,
I didn't mean to generalise ALL Christians, just the ones that are against gay marriage and such, I know theres plenty of them who are all for it but I was meaning to be calling out on the ones that hate gays (I was replying to Quilava's post). Im sorry I didnt write it more clearly so you could understand that it wasnt generalising them all, just the haters! @ShiningRaichu I have to agree with you here. Someone else's marriage whether hetero or homo is not going too effect anyone elses marriage. Thats just silly >.<. And if it does obviously the effected marriage wasnt strong enough to make it the distance anyways. @Quilava, So your mother hasn't talked about it at all since you came out? Did she apologise for being rude at least? |
Hie guys :3 Been waiting for an opportunity to pop in here! My family is currently dealing with a stupid situation with the homophobic parents of my sister's girlfriend. It sucks :P Apparently my sister is a bad influence on her daughter, and the parents believe that's what's "making their daughter gay." I dunno.
(But er hi everyone. I'm an atheist as well, been one for several years! I never explicitly told anyone except my sister and cousin, but it's sort of implied... I guess. My family is pretty much Christian, though 'how' Christian each part of the family is varies. My aunts and uncles are more religious than my parents, who are pretty laid-back about everything.) |
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That sounds really stupid though. Do they think shes making their daughter gay from religious reasons or are they just homophobics?You should also join the LGBTS club if you havent already. So what do you think about some homophobics using religion as an excuse for their hate? |
It's pretty bad.. They are religious people, the kind that think that being gay - or whatever - is basically horrible and not right. At this point I think they're in denial about the whole thing and are trying to keep their daughter and my sister separated in hopes that it'll make her stop being gay... There's a lot more detail to the situation, but I don't want to mention too much since the gf's mother has been stalking my sister's online pages and I'm connected to basically all of them >.<
But yeah, hating anything based on religion or using the religion as an excuse for it is not something I agree with at all. I think the person should take the time to look at things objectively before deciding their opinion. And even if they don't agree that something is right, I think that people should at least respect other people's feelings/opinions/decisions on the matter. I've noticed that with things like homosexuality (or what have you) and abortion, it is really not the protestors' business what other people do! It does not affect them! There's a lesbian couple living across from me...I've lived here for 10 years and didn't even know that until a few weeks ago. That's how much their gayness affected me and the rest of the neighborhood....not at all. |
Hey voltianqueen! Welcome! Adding you in now :)
Your little situation is interesting, because it's the other family who is homophobic, not your own. I never actually thought about it in such an abstract perspective... usually it's more immediate, "my parents are religious wingnuts who hate the gays" etc. Do you know if her parents are going to any extreme measures to keep them apart? Have you heard of any church interventions going on? I remember one of my friends came out and then the next night his parents had their pastor over for dinner to discuss it with him and try to discourage any action on his behalf. |
The parents had her go to church counselling to ... talk about it. I don't know a whole lot about it since apparently it's hard to get information from gf, but from what I do know, they basically tell her it's not a good decision and want to come up with ways to 'reverse it' I guess. She's not allowed to have anything to do with foreign media, namely Japanese stuff, anymore, since it is supposedly a bad influence... (no pokemon ;_;) My sisters and I like anime and games and all that good stuff, so you see where it's going >.< They have also talked about switching her school next year so she may end up going to the private Catholic school in the area.
My parents have tried meeting up with her parents to try and work things out, compromise, but so far it's them who've been running this whole thing. Mom and Dad said they're at the point now where they're going to take a stand on this, especially after the creepy internet stalking. Who knows what'll happen next >__< I just want my sister to be back to normal and not worry about stuff all the time. |
I thought they might have - bastards. The one saving grace in situations like these is that it's always the homophobic parents who lose in the end. Because they can invoke as many Gods and preachers and mystical forces as they like, but in the end it comes down to two options: they can have a gay daughter who they love and accept anyway, or they can have their faith and a gay daughter who lives on the other end of the country and never speaks to them as they grow old and die alone.
Either way, they have a gay daughter. |
I totally agree with Andy, her parents should just accept the fact that their daughter is gay and the god(s) cant do anything to change the fact. I think trying to get their religious leaders to "reverse" it is just completely stupid and inconsiderate to the daughters feelings. And banning japanese stuff. END THEM NOW! I dont see how japanese related things can be seen as a bad influence. My god they are naive.
I hope that all ends well for your sister and her girlfriend though! Has anyone else had an experience like this? Where religion has gotten in the way of accepting sexuality of you/a family member/partner like this? |
Yeah, that's basically what my mom told them... She told me they said they would never accept it :( Who knows, people change, but it's awfully sad to think that they'd be willing to push their daughter away over something like this. The gf is really fighting them on it, and I feel proud in a way... She's standing up for the stuff she believes in, but in this situation I'm afraid it won't help much. I told her I'd always be there for support, but it seems like I can't or else I'll get dragged into this big mess, too..never mind that she can't contact me anyway ~__~
Hopefully the situation will get cleaned up soon, for better or worse ._. (Feels like the banning Japanese stuff is just to put dirt on us cos we like it :P) |
Well we should move on now, since we're probably heading into LGBT Club territory, so here is a little article I picked up on why this particular writer thinks atheism is bad for you. I think my favourite part is this paragraph:
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I hate it when people say stuff like that... I've had a friend say to me that I might think I have a great life, but without Jesus I'll never know how much better it is :|
I never really know how to respond either XD Usually it's like "Well, no, not really, but okay." It was also weird because I didn't really wanna get into a religious discussion at Chuck E Cheese.. |
I hate people like that so much >:@
How does she know what atheist feel? Is she an Atheist, NO. She has no right to say they we are "empty" because we don't believe that a deity has control over our lives and we have to bend the knee to this deity all the time. Ugh this kind of stuff makes me so angry! Saying "Atheists will of course vehemently deny this" is an extremely cheap shot. I could write an article about how religious people are stupid and then at the end say "Religious people will of course deny this". And your friend volti, slap them across the back of the head for me for being a tool. Saying your life is better then someone elses because YOU BELIEVE A FAIRY TAIL ONE THING its just so narrowminded and ugh! Makes me angry. Being Atheist does not make you empty and being Religious does not make you full my god, people are stupid and it makes me cry. |
"Religion is true inb4 atheist counter-arguments"
So we non-believers like to talk about science being the best way of learning about the universe and all that, but how many of us have a scientific background/understanding/interest? How many of us came to atheism through science compared to those of us who were confronted with religion and rejected that? |
I basically started questioning the religion I had been (pretty lightly) taught because when I was a kid I freaking loved dinosaurs... Yeah. In my dinosaur/prehistoric books, it talked about the first organisms and early mammals and (obviously) dinosaurs..and all that.. Really, my turn from really liberal Christianity to atheism had a lot to do with me being like "lol this makes no sense." Besides that, the way my family approaches their religion is pretty inconsistent, so.
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I would say it was half half, when I was younger I wasn't atheist I was more just like "this seems kinda like my bedtime stories not a true story" and didnt really have an opinion on it but as I got older and into science and such more I was just like "None of this makes sense at all." and became full atheist. |
I have very little scientific knowledge or background lol. It was one of my worst subjects in high school; I was just terrible at it. I definitely came to atheism through rejection of religion, because in the end I'd rather put my trust in something that can be proven rather than something that can't. The idea of faith - believe without proof - is utterly terrifying. It opens the door to brainwashing and cults and the thought that faith is enough... that's horrific.
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I, for one, find scientific reasoning for how the universe was created (The Big Bang) to seem more logical than religion's point of views (God created the universe out of dust? ..I never really understood). I've always been into science and everything, yeah. Even as a kid, it was one of my favorite subjects. I have a giant book titled The Atlas of the Universe. It has a bunch of galaxies in it...and people wonder why people think there's no God. The world we live in is just a speck in this vast universe..I highly doubt a God made the entire universe just to make ONE planet for his people. No. I was raised Catholic (as I've stated in this thread already) but overtime I've felt as if it isn't ... true. I felt this way whenever I found out Santa wasn't real. I was 8 when I started my doubts..! It's quite difficult because my family is filled with religious people. The other day I was with my mom, grandma, step-dad, sister, and cousin, and we passed in front of a Catholic church. When you pass in front of a Catholic church and you're Catholic, you're apparently supposed to "make the sign of the cross." My grandma noticed I didn't do it, and she started automatically asking me if I was Atheist. I didn't want to make a scene in front of my family, so I just said that I never said that. If I could tell my family about this, everything would be easier.. lol Okay so I was talking to my friend in class Friday, and she said that, because of her religion, she doesn't approve of homosexuals. I was utterly shocked at this because I always thought she wasn't one to judge because of things like that..! |
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Anyway, if what you're getting at is true, then why would there be uninhabitable planets? It seems like a waste of energy, mass, etc. I can understand for gravitational purposes (for other planets to be able to be in the "Goldilocks zone") but otherwise I don't see a point. Why wouldn't he supply us with the ability to zoom out of the planet with ease to other planets? Or is the Earth good enough? |
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I'm still agnostic, it's just hard for me as someone who's been to Catholic school for 5 years now (3 in high school, 2 in college) and has taken 3.5 years of Theology to hear people make their opinions without knowing all the facts. Even if it's not believed in, Christianity and the Bible are surprisingly interesting and complex when you get into it, from a literary standpoint. |
If I understand correctly, the Bible isn't necessarily always to be taken at its word. Just like any other book, it uses creative writing techniques to put across a point. So when it says that Eve was made out of Adam's rib, I'm not sure if that was meant to be taken literally (since it's well established in this universe that a God would have infinite power and is therefore capable of creating a woman from scratch, just as he created the man from scratch) or figuratively to make a point. The point in this case, I believe, would be man's dominance over woman.
EDIT: ...ninja'd damnit toujours |
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Well, I was in Catholic schools from ages 4~9, and from 10~14, I was in after school Catholic classes. I was taught how to be a good little Catholic girl and whatnot xD If we had a copy of the Bible in my house, I'd check out some parts. The only thing I've ever really read into was the Revelation part..although I don't quite remember it all. Also I tried to read this one part a few years ago that was basically saying "(insert name here) who was the son of (insert name here) who lived to be 924 and had 32 other children.." and I was so lost. Whoever knows what that may be, let me know. :D |
I think the book you're talking about is part of the Pentateuch but I'm not sure. Numbers maybe?
Yeah I looked it up and you're thinking of Numbers. The thing about the Bible is it's a lot like other really heavy literary works; you can't just read it and 'understand'. You have to study it, and probably with a teacher or a scholar to even begin to scratch the surface. I've learned more in this past semester in college in Theology than I did in all 3 of my high school years, and more than the year and a half of RCIA I took to become Catholic way back in high school. If you do read a book from the Bible though, I would recommend Exodus. It's actually a really interesting story. Job is interesting too, but you have to keep in mind reading it that it's written as a fairy tale, with the Hebrew equivalent of "Once upon a time" starting it, so you don't feel like God is punishing Job unfairly or something like that haha. |
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Eh if that didnt make any sense what I'm trying to say, how can we possible take something as god's word and the truth if you admit that a part of it is just a fairy tale? |
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The point of the book is to refute the idea of the time that if something bad happens to you, it's a direct result of your own sin. It's also meant to encourage people to suffer without blaming or cursing God, as if you suffer and still praise God then you will be rewarded in the end. Saying that you can't take it as important because it's not a true fact is like disregarding every parable Jesus ever said as unimportant because they didn't actually happen. Edit: the reason I used the term "fairy tale" is because of the phrases used to open it and end it, which would have signified to people back then that the story wasn't real, but something that we don't see nowadays because of translation and changes in colloquial language. The closest approximation is the idea of the beginning of a fairy tale, which has a formula that everyone knows. |
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Technically a Bachelor of Science in a few months :) so that best explains my route. I went to a Church of England school, we weren't taught the bible but it was often referenced - and we made a prayer before each assembly. Well I say we, I didn't like it so just sat and watched, even as a 7 year old. God was just never the option for me. ------------ As to all the Bible shizz, from what I know about the Bible I would say it's more a collection of horror stories than fables. All are simply to demonstrate the power that God has and/or to say that if you sin then you will go to hell. It's just a scare tactic to gain power over people. To me, God just comes across as a bully. |
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I wouldn't be so quick to write that off as a lack of knowledge. Just off the top of my head I can think of one story - Sodom and Gomorrah - where God came off looking like a bit of a bully. Considering two cities were consumed in fire and brimstone, I think that's a horror story James Cameron could do something with.
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If there was a perfect answer to what each section of the bible meant then the Christian religion as a whole wouldn't be so flawed. |
I subscribe to the view that all literary texts are open to the audience's interpretation, but that there are better and worse arguments, deeper and shallower understandings based on how much one reads and thinks about the text. Certainly the person who wrote (or wrote down) one of these Jesus fables probably had their own ideas, but that doesn't preclude the possibility that they differed from the person they heard the story from, and certainly whoever first came up with the story could not control how people read it.
I haven't really read the bible, but when I first transferred to university I met with a professor who taught some literature (my focus) and also some theological/religious stuff and as an intro to the kinds of assignments we'd be doing he had us read a biblical fable and try to find out what we might be able to tease from the text. Can't remember what it was, but it involved an a couple of people and some mundane kind of exchange or argument (lol, so specific) and the half dozen of us students tried to "find" the "moral" of the story and then after listening to us the professor suggested we think about it with one of the characters as god and the exchange as a parallel to a person's relationship with god, etc. etc. THE POINT OF MY STORY is that you can look at the surface of something and it can look like a bully, but if you look more at it you can see something different. OF COURSE in another class I took the teacher read us something from an old Buddhist guy in ye olde China who said "When I got here all I saw was a mountain. After 20 years studying I saw there was no mountain. After another 20 years I saw there was a mountain again." Or, in other words (or at least my interpretation), don't get all bent out of shape trying to find "the truth" or things. Whoa. What did I just write? |
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Some believe The Bible is a historically accurate depiction of events, others believe it's a collection of stories with moral guidance. Some believe the Virgin Mary should be worshipped., others consider this idolatry. Some believe hell is a place of fiery torture, others describe it as being nothing. To say someone doesn't know much about The Bible and suggest that they're objectively wrong when there are so many interpretations is ridiculous. If Swift has missed the mark, there has to be a mark to miss, but Christianity seems to be all over the maps. |
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Also, revelation is the last book of the bible... its the future, really, and is kind of hard to understand. Its interesting, but extremely hard to understand. Also, the Bible also has genealogies... which is probably what you flipped to ^^ that could actually be anywhere, Genesis, Numbers, even new testament (I think Joseph's genealogy was there in the new testament?) so I think that's what you stumbled upon. Also, if you actually want to read it there are online Bibles available, in case you want to read it. |
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Yeah, it is. Ten people that have to be righteous in order for the city to be spared. Quote:
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It's time for the Red Shield Appeal, which means The Salvation Army is coming door-to-door asking for money. Mum saw them walking down the street and went to go get her purse and I said "Don't you give them anything." She stopped in her tracks and sat back down. The doorbell rang and nobody answered.
I feel very good about myself right now :). Now that money can go to a charity that doesn't discriminate who they help because of their religious views. |
Hooray, exams are finally over!
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Here's an article which outlines the Salvation Army's views on LGBT rights which poses a very interesting question on whether or not the good they do is enough to excuse the evil.
Here is one instance of them actually refusing to help a gay couple unless they agreed to break up. You can Google "Salvation Army gay" and get millions of results. They're notorious for this, and with an organisation such as the Salvation Army, there really is no doubt that it stems from the religious aspect. |
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No, I don't think the good that they do even remotely excuses what they have done. I don't think people would be so forgiving of a charity having an official opposition to black people or those of another religion, but that's by the by. I boycotted the Salvation Army a long time ago, and I've tried to make others are of what they do. A charity should never abuse it's status (to the point of endangering the well being of the people they supposedly protect) for the purpose of making other people bow down to their religious opinion. I find that thoroughly repulsive, and it negates any good that they do. |
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Salvation Army hears dissent over Gay views That guys who tried make him break up probably wasn't the best representative of the army. Seriously? Try make someone go to church for it? That's not how you're supposed to live out Christianity :(. You shouldn't help just help people who believe in what you believe. But I couldn't find more such cases from reliable websites though. And, about their beliefs throwing up a question whether the good they do excuses their 'evil'... what's the problem in bringing their beliefs into the open? As said above, most of the army doesn't discriminate based on it; they actually advocate against discrimination (at least, for homosexuality). So, other than believing something you believe to be morally wrong, where's the 'evil'? 'Cuz really, you're doing the same thing in their opinion; believing in something they believe morally wrong. Sorry if that was a bit over blown :/ I realized my troubles weren't over with my exams :(. Seems I have projects left. |
Personally I don't feel that it's fair if you donate to religious based charities, because I feel as if they'll be bias towards people who have the same faith as them which I don't think is fair. I'm not going to deny they do good things for people I just dont think its fair that they choose who they want to help.
The refusion of help to the gay couple just shows that because of their religious beliefs, even though they are a charity, they'll deny help to people who go against what the believe! This is why I wouldnt and dont really donate to religious based charities like the salvo's. I still think donating to charities is a good thing but I'd prefer to give my money to Westpac Surf Rescue Helicopters because they'll save anyone regardless of what they believe in or who they are. |
OMG I've had this open in a tab for like three days. I totally forgot to finish this reply lmao.
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You can support The Salvation Army if you like, that's up to you. But this went all over the Internet and as far as I know, they haven't apologised or even acknowledged the situation other than to say "they should have been helped" and to give some weak excuse about upheaval in the shelter's bedding system - which has been happening in 'recent years', while the incident in question was a decade ago. Until I hear from them in no uncertain terms that this was just an unruly volunteer and not a symptom of a bigger problem within the organisation, they're not getting a dime from me. Because given their official writings on the matter, from the article you linked, Quote:
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"Oh, sure, sexual orientation is not a choice, but scripture says that you can only marry an opposite-sex partner so..." The logic next step (not a choice -> shouldn't discriminate because of it) isn't something they'll take so it's not like they're meeting you halfway or really conceding anything. |
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I realize that the guys turned away people for their beliefs, but I think what I said before kind of speaks out my thoughts on that: Quote:
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Also, did you guys hear? Doomsday 2012 no longer will happen ^^ I saw the thread somewhere in the other chat forum. Funny, don't you think? I kinda feel sorry for those poor sods who invested all their money into bunkers and stuff in preparation for the end... |
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Regarding 2012 end-of-the-world stuff, I don't think anyone actually built bunkers and things like that for the "end of the Mayan calendar" doomsday, but I know that people did sell all the possessions, etc. because of that one American radio pastor who said the world would end sometime last year. Poor saps. Still, it was fun for a while. The guy was based in Oakland, California and I was actually in Oakland the day it was supposed to happen and there was actually an earthquake (a small one) one hour after the time he said the world would end. |
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Atheism is going to win out by 2038, guys - The Huffington Post says so.
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The Huffington Post likes a good, attention-grabbing headline like that.
"The basic idea is that as people become more affluent, they are less worried about lacking for basic necessities, or dying early from violence or disease. In other words they are secure in their own existence. They do not feel the need to appeal to supernatural entities to calm their fears and insecurities." |
I've been an atheist for about 7 years, since I was 12. I'm a supporter of same sex rights, even though I'm straight. I grew up in a small christian town in Texas where I'm surrounded by the biggest bigots of the south.
SIGN ME UP! |
Welcome Epitaph93! Haha I love your little introduction, that was very well-put.
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They're executing their pull over society, but it's weaker than it was even twenty years ago. I can't see it shifting back the other way. |
Welcome!
I agree with you Andy, religion is definitely starting to lose its once strong grip on society rather quickly now with more people going against what they say because of how biased it is (imo). I think as people are becoming more open about their sexuality and people are being more accepting the narrow minded views of christians will be disregarded by more people as well, again weakening the grip on society. I think it'll lead to more equality in the least with same sex marriages being accepted sooner rather than later. |
I hate to revisit an old topic, but
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^ That line is a link. Sometimes depending on what style you use it's hard to tell lol |
Count me in on this club/thread ^_^
My mother was never too religious. But she is a Pagan. So never said "HERE'S A BIBLE, WORSHIP JEEEESUSSSSS." Or tried to get me to be a Pagan. I had the freedom to choose whatever religion I wanted. For awhile, I was agnostic, because I just didn't know what to believe. But by now, Religion has become a joke for me. I tell all my friends that I worship the "Nyan Cat." Because they think it's stupid to believe in something that's "Not real." LOL. I've personally seen no reason to believe in a higher power that doesn't support Homosexual love/Homosexuals in general. God's a *****. |
God does support/love homosexuals, it's his followers that don't. Certainly makes it hard to not question its legitimacy though.
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Welcome coolalex144!
The problem is though, that until God reveals himself in a thunder cloud and says "I love everybody, judge not ye mere mortals" or whatever he'd say, his followers are all we have to go by. And because there are so many of them with so many different views, they're incredibly inconsistent. What God loves and hates, who God is, all of that varies depending on who you talk to. If all the Christians in the world could get together in a giant room and just work out a consistent story to come up with, maybe the whole thing would be more plausible and religion itself wouldn't seem so flimsy. |
I totally agree with Andy, everything seems to contradict.
"Love everyone, hate these people." "Everyones equal, no gay marriage." etc etc. I think all the groups of Christianity really needs to get together and work out everything properly. That way they'll all over the board either be with things or against things other then different opinions everywhere! tl;dr or didnt make sense: Basically God's followers are God's world and represent his view on the world until he comes and talks to us personally. |
I would be more than a little scared if all Christians suddenly agreed on everything. And aren't religious texts supposedly how gods get represented here on planet Earth? Not that they are necessarily better than followers since there are lots of disagreeable bits on a lot of texts and with all the translations, additions, and omissions over the centuries it's hard to know what would have been there originally.
And now, a question: would you date someone who was very religious? (Like, not Jesus Camp religious, but goes to services every week, etc.) Imagine they're someone you got on with really well before answering. (And if you're religious, would you date someone very atheist?) |
My mom told me never to marry someone who isn't a Christian, using her relationship with my dad as an example of why I shouldn't. At the time, I took it to heart, but I wouldn't really care one way or the other now. Dating a Christian would probably make me go to church and stuff again, and dating an atheist would probably do the opposite.
Remind me to never write long posts from my phone again. lol |
Would I date someone with a religion? Absolutely. Would I date somebody very religious? Not a chance in Hell.
I just think it's a recipe for disaster. Religion is a very... contentious issue, and I can't imagine being in an intimate relationship (or to extrapolate, sharing my life) with somebody who disagreed so wholeheartedly on it. I'd like to think we'd both be mature enough not to let it get in the way of our relationship, but I know that's an unrealistic expectation, because there are so many opportunities for it to cause trouble. The thing about religion, when you're that religious, is that it affects a good chunk of your daily life. There are restrictions on life that accompany it and I wouldn't be comfortable feeling the need to support and facilitate those restrictions and have them impact on my life when I don't agree with them. Then there's the more simple things like what we do on Easter and Christmas, whether we say grace at the table... it would just eat at me. I couldn't do it. Not to mention also that if somebody were both homosexual and extremely religious, then that person has the potential to be severely messed up and I'm not sure I have it in me to maintain that kind of personality lol. |
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Here is a tidbit of news.
A high school teacher has bragged in written form about how a student atheist group was blocked from forming at his school, but one of the students there has spread this across the internet and and fired back at how all of this has crossed legal lines and generally shone a bright light on the teacher and school. It's clearer if you just read about it. |
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Also holy crap, it's been a while since I've been here. Hello everyone! |
Welcome back Harrison, I remember you!
Man, I've been so distracted these last few days. I've been working and going out a ton (BATMANNNN) and when I'm not working I'm here and people are pulling me every which way... which has led to me having Scarf's post open in a tab for like three or four days and never getting around to actually replying to it lol. I may have fallen in love with JT. That teacher is a serious dick and the problem is that he's most likely just one symptom of a larger problem. Educators need to be objective and not let their own feelings cloud their judgment. If they can't do that, they need to go work at Dairy Shack... which is where this teacher will most likely end up if JT gets his way :P My favourite part of the whole article was where he said that if the school keeps jerking him around he'll release the email address and count on us (his lovelies... d'awww) to take care of them for him. I really love that. It's like.. FLY MY PRETTIES, FLY! |
Athiest here. :D
My parents are big into religion. I went to church while growing up until I really took the time to think about why. No government control for meh kthnx. |
Wonderful, Ooka! I think my favourite kind of atheists are the ones whose parents are uber-religious, because they're always the ones with the best stories :P.
Please do tell if you have any! And welcome :D |
I'd love to join this! :D I'm a very strong agnostic atheist, have been for a long while now. So sign me up :D
I'll only fill out one of the things for now since I'm feeling a wee lazy. What are your opinions on subjects such as same-sex marriage, abortion, the death penalty, and so on? Why? Same-Sex Marriage:Absopositively! For the exact same reason most other people do xD Abortion: 100% in favor of legal abortion 100% of the time! Now that one's too controversial for my liking, I'd rather not go into detail why... Death Penalty: Hm... neutral I guess. I think it's a little bit wasteful. I'm going to sound like a monster but I think those who would be sentenced to the death penalty should be used for medical testing or some other kinds of testing, or used for hard labor. xP |
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Welcome to the Atheist Alliance Snowdrop :3 (Ooka too!). We need a new discussion point, but (in the UK at least) there hasn't really been much atheist/religion news... considering everything seems to be about the Olympics. How about: In school Religion/Religious Education/whatever lessons - what religions did you learn about? Would you say the teacher taught them as 'fact' or 'myth'? I'm pretty sure the only Religions I learnt about in RE lessons were Christianity and Islam - normally ending the term in a comparison of the two. Most of the teachers were not religious and so I feel we got a very even outlook, however the curriculum could do with a bit of diversity. I do remember one time we covered creation in religion, going through each creation story. A science teacher even came in to give the science theory of creation. Which is pretty good :3. |
Pink and Skitty, two of my favorite things :D
Hm... I was never taught anything religious in school. The only thing I can relate to that is my science teacher being a devout Christian. When she taught us evolution she simply said she was required by the state to teach it but believed none of it. But we were never presented any of the Christian ideologies, thank goodness :P EDIT: Also nice Calcifer avie xD |
I'll join, yo.
So, I'm not actually and Atheist... but also not religious. I dunno if I'll explain myself properly, but until the age of 12 my family was the 'go to church every sunday and pray about everything' type family. I was scared to death that I was gonna go to Hell because unclean thoughts are bad, etc, etc. Being... not even a teenager, I can't stress just how scared I was of that prospect. I also didn't question it. One week, though, we didn't go to church. Actually, no weeks after (aside from like once or twice) did we go back. To this day, I still don't know what made my parents stop going to church, but they also stopped talking about it. So, I stopped thinking about it. Then, in high school I got interested in other religions and just read and read and read about other beliefs. I realized there are a lot of similarities in all these different sets of beliefs people have. It was interesting to me. To this day I still haven't really... decided my stance on it all. Nothing has ever actually been forced on me, and I'm thankful for that. However, I just... I'm not sure. I just think people should be good to each other. We should help each other out if we can. Basically, just be good people. Meh, I'm not sure if I really said what I wanted to say... the way I wanted to say it, but I don't exactly open up about my beliefs often at all. tl;dr I dunno what to believe so I'm just gonna try and be a decent person, but you all are cool.jpg |
Algo yer an agnostic brah
I think yer cool too. Glad to see you're not dismissing religion like them stupid atheists (the stupid ones, mind you. Not the PC kind). And regarding the religion classes the closest I've ever come was memorizing the Ten Commandments for History (it was the Judaism unit mmkay) in 6th grade. And also the Five Pillars in 7th grade for the Islam unit. I've forgot all of them except the Hajj, but they were cool to learn about. All Mr. Ramirez said was "welp looks like I got hate mail comin' in." He just said that we're required to learn this, and in history classes online (yay crashcourse) John Green said that learning about religion is not worshipping them, but rather the basis for a better future. :D And Algo if you were worried about going to Hell, I'd say you've repented enough to make it to heaven. If you just talk to God on a daily basis (we call this praying) he'll be more than happy to give you an first class train to heaven. Though if you get some guidance from church it's easier to live a "better life" and "pray" and everything. Also you have worship, and while you can worship in your head there's nothing that can beat getting lost in whoever owns this universe, be it Allah or God or some giant frog from Africa. Now, you can disregard everything I've said, but that's just what you need to do to live "the perfect life". It's nothing special - repent, talk to God and other Christians, evangelize, sleep, go live another day for Christ. There's nothing that says you have to have a long beard and be snobby or ride bikes from door to door shoving your opinions in someone's face. A true Christian life is a fun one, but each must find his own. Okay I've offended you enough so I think I'll stop. And if you're a Christian, or even remotely religious, I don't think you should be intolerant of atheists. After all, it's only by the grace of God that you're better than them, and even then just slightly - thank Him for that through your praise and instead of bragging, share the gift so that they can be better too. If they don't accept it, it's fine - God has let their epiphany happen later, if ever. |
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So anyway, I had a comparative religions class in high school. It was elective, and the teacher was our local radical and probably an atheist. We learned about "native" religions, and then all the big ones in more or less chronological order: Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Christianity, and then ran out of time before we could get to Islam. Nothing ever really got all that deep since by the time we got to the religions of anyone in the class we'd all kinda learned it wouldn't be cool to talk about how our beliefs were right and others' were wrong. |
@droomph: wut. Well I have nothing else to do, may as well respond.
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Of course, I don't have to worry about that, because of the lack of evidence for a god like that existing. Now, in the off chance you were joking, I apologize for my post. But judging by your others, you probably weren't. |
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Welcome Algo and Snowdrop :D
Sorry I've been absent again, you know, life and stuff means I've only really had enough time for OVP for the last few days. I did see you two introduce yourselves a few days ago and added you to the list - I just intended to reply later and never quite got there :P. Now, onto business. Alright, I really don't mean for this to turn into 'gang up on droomph' day, but there are some things you said that are kinda out there... Quote:
"Talk to other Christians" - I've never known this to be an integral part of being a Christian. Obviously for socialisation purposes it doesn't hurt, but when you combine 'talk to other Christians' with 'evangelize', to me it puts forth the message that you're talking exclusively to Christians unless you're evangelizing. And at that, I don't see why talking to other Christians is an important enough notion to be listed under what it takes to live 'the perfect life'. "Evangelize" - this is essentially the same thing as "going from door to door on a bike shoving your opinions in peoples' faces". The only difference is that "evangelize" is the term provided to make it sound like this is a good thing to do - and more to the point, a necessary thing to do. And it must be necessary, again, if it's listed in the ingredients for 'the perfect life'. "Go live another day for Christ" - this here is my biggest concern for people who choose religion. This is your life. This is not Christ's life. I don't see any reason why anybody should be living their life for anybody other than him/herself. If we are put here for the sole purpose of achieving Christ's ends, then what is the point of being here at all? How is that living, if it's all for somebody else? What was the point of Christ creating us and dying for us if his purpose was ultimately self-serving? Live your life for you. You only get to do life once and if you waste it then there's nothing you can do about that after the fact and then you've squandered your life restricting yourself in the name of somebody who may not even be there to pat you on the pack when you're dead. Quote:
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Droomph, Andy has many valid points in his post that I really think you should think about.
The main one is live for Christ. Its not his life your living it is your life, no one elses to control but yours. I just don't think this is something anyone should do, sure you can follow his "teachings" as you live your life but its impossible to live for him. And If you for one second think you are better then anyone else because of your religion you really need to get your head out of your --- and think about what you said, think really hard about it. Believing or being religious does in no way AT ALL make you better than anyone else. This really angers me that you can even say that, it is, in Andy's words "smug and ignorant". It also leaves me speechless to how someone can actually truly think that. Also if you know somethings going to be so offensive to the people reading it you should not post it in the first place, you should stop yourself beforehand, especially in a club such as this. |
Well I guess that's at an end, so I guess it's time we move on.
Apparently, the Irish are abandoning religion faster than I'd abandon a screaming baby. That in itself is not shocking, but there's one quote in particular in the article that doesn't sit well with me: Quote:
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I see your Irish and I raise you an American.
America is also abandoning religion. [Read all about it] Here's a bit from the article. The rest is some speculation as to why the numbers have changed. Quote:
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I heard people in America were fearful to come out as athiests, it's like being homosexual and hiding in the closet. I know some people said they lost their job after they came out, or people started disrespecting them. Now I don't if they're exaggerating, or...? That sounds pretty scary though. I've been hoping for a long time America's religious rates would drop.
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But yeah, it is a big like being in the closet since you don't know exactly how people will react. People might get all in your business to "prove" to everyone else how "faithful" they are. 'Cause, ya know, you don't want anyone to think you're a non-believer by being okay with that one kid. |
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Hello from the Midwest. Here in Minnesota the Twin Cities area is pretty okay to be an atheist, but if you go outside the city, yeah, good luck. My parents kicked me out shortly after I announced I was atheist after years of serving the church and going to Catholic school. Then they won't allow me over for family events, like holidays or birthdays. And funerals are outright awkward. It's a lot like coming out, which happened at the same time. That wasn't fun. I had to have the nice conversation with my mother. "Why yes, Mother, I am an biromantic asexual and I'm atheist too." That was fun. Especially since I didn't mean for them to find out, but they did when she stalked my facebook account when I forgot to log off and read my PMs. |
'sup guys, I finally am back. After an abnormally long vacation.
I think I had a question open from Barrels... he still read the thread? -if you do barrels, give me an affirmative :)- if you don't know me, I'm about one of the only christians who reads and responds here ;) so 'sup. and apologies if another christian frequents this now, I don't know of one yet. And I know you guys stopped talking about droomph, so if you don't want to read it don't bother. Spoiler:
anyways, hows stuff going? How do you guys feel about the 22.12.12 deadline coming up? I wanna watch end of the world movies or go out that day :) |
Sign me up please. Atheist and Humanist +1. :)
I'd be happy to answer those set questions that most members have posted. Not sure if they're required, but I'll get to them in detail. |
Hey Bear, welcome! I took over the club a while ago and since then it hasn't been necessary to answer all those questions, but if you want to, you're most welcome to! I guess it helps us get to know you better :) or else you could just join in the current conversation, whichever you like lol.
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That's what's kind of twisted about the notion of being tested in this life for the afterlife. People are gunning so hard for a spot in Heaven that they would sacrifice their own child for it. It's so selfish. Don't put a child in this world if you're not prepared to stand by him/her no matter what. Quote:
Is it like, a huge cosmic social experiment? Is Jesus bored and just wants to play his own version of The Sims? What is the whole point of this if it starts and ends with him - what is he getting out of it? As for 22.12 (though I could have sworn it was 21.12, but I'll take your word for it lol) I'm pretty psyched for it. I have some lawn chairs, I'll just sit out by the pool and watch the fiery meteor shower :P |
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Plus I think 5% (1 in 20) is pretty good for America. Religion is very ingrained here and not long ago you would be ostracized from society if you were openly atheist. |
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What happened was my own fault really, but it's her fault too. We were at the family cabin, and my phone couldn't access the internet, so I'd been using my mother's to text a friend. Said friend said that he posted something on my facebook page. I use my mom's phone to check my facebook page, and I forget to log out like a complete genius. When she used her phone she noticed that I was still logged on, and instead of being a good person and logging me off, she read through my messages. Where a few weeks previous I'd been coming out to my friend.. There were also messages to a group called "The Thinking Atheist" where I had a letter written and sent in that Seth read in a podcast. She was livid. I was more pissed that she read my messages! She was more worried about one closet than the other, and atheism sort of took a back seat until the next event, which was Christmas. I was buying presents and it brought up the argument, the whole you don't believe why are you even bothering? My reply was that either A) People would give me gifts and it's rude not to trade B) Giving presents isn't really a religious thing anyways, and it's a nice gesture and C) It's my own damn money anyways why do you care? Or do you not want the new books I just bought you? From there it spiraled down and I don't even remember how it got to "FINE THEN JUST DON'T COME". My family just doesn't understand. My mom regrets spending so much momey to send me to Catholic school, and I turn out to be atheist. Thing is a lot of my classmates became atheist too. But personally I wouldn't have traded those years at that school for anything. It was a great school and one of the best experiences in my life. She says it was the greatest mistake of hers. I understand, though sometimes I can't help but feel depressed when I think about how she took it. I stand firm in my non belief though. I reply that she should look at herself. She trurned to her god only when she faced death, and once she was in the clear she threw it away like a used rag. She's been cancer free for five years. Hasn't been to church in four. Yep. I was pretty much banished from my family until recently. I was forbidden from family gatherings or even talking to extended family, because I was an embarrassment. Because of my lack of belief I was shunned on family occasions; a black sheep. I got an angry letters from family and friends of the family stating how I need to 'turn from evil' and return to the faith or I will burn for eternity. Other letters said that I was never to see their children, never speak to them for fear of it 'spreading'. My cousin is a priest. He showed up at my place to talk to me. Followed by a door to the face of course when he began preaching about my immortal soul. Here's a post from another forum from when my mom started to 'see the light' so to speak: "My mom has always been pissed that I'm atheist, even though she's a rather terrible believer herself. She always brings up that she said it was the worst thing she ever did to send me to Catholic school, and that it made me atheist. I have to agree, but I had to explain to her the other reasons for atheism, the ass hole of a priest we had, the sexist nature of the church, the inconsistency of the Bible, the treatment of gays in the church... Then she flipped a lid. Apparently I'm only "bi" because of the people I hung out with in high school. Apparently it was the cool thing to do and I did it to "fit in", just like, get this, my atheism. I started laughing so hard when she said I was only atheist cause it was cool and I was just acting it. So ****ing funny! I mean when I say I'm atheist, I am a strong atheist and I will start rants and jump in any religious argument I find because I CAN DAMMIT (:P) Then I got upset. I told her that my atheism, true, has a part with how religion treats the lgbt community. But I told her that I miss Church. She shut up and listened, and it's true. I miss the music, the singing, the feeling that you're in something bigger, the safety of knowing, of feeling that you're safe. When we were in that church for the funeral I cried, not for the departed cause I barely knew them, but for the fact that I missed this, I might not believe it anymore. But the community. I remembered my church and how much I meant to them since I was the only altar server. How it felt when I helped others for church related programs and such. I explained to her that I lost a lot when I stopped believing. Then she asked why then don't I believe? Save what I lost? I explained that if I were to act like I believed, go through the motions but not have the faith behind it, it would actually be an insult, sacrilegious, and not like I cared, but there felt like there would be something inherently wrong with that. She said ok. Then she started actually asking questions. Like, not being mean, but really asking questions and being curious. It as such a step forward. Then she started asking me about lgbt stuff, purely curious. It was such a step forward! That ounce of respect I had for the church in that I didn't want to be sacrilegious, it got to her. I don't know why. |
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Also, you were right. it is actually 21 December. Seems my previous sources were misinformed :P. Truth be told, I'm actually probs gonna watch a bit of CNN and all to see what people in the world are all doing about it. And then maybe watch 'The day after tommorow' :) I actually thought the solar flare theory was convincing at first, as some NASA scientist actually said so. Then 2012 rolls in, and nothing in the news about people getting ready. I figured there might have been, so I check the NASA website and it's a hoax :/. Whoops. Any theories you guys found convincing? |
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