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I think it's a choice due to your surroundings
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Patchy beat me to it... and put it far more eloquently than I ever could. Who you're attracted to isn't a choice in the slightest, what is a choice is whether you choose to deny such feelings or accept them. You don't choose to be homosexual or bisexual (my personal favourite ;P) in the same way you don't choose to be straight or tall.
Having said that, I wish to avoid the term "Born This Way" at any cost. Quote:
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It's interesting to me the number of people who think sexual orientation is genetic. I honestly think that it varies from case to case. There is no one answer, just like most things in life.
I believe that for certain people, such events have happened in their lives that cause sexual orientation to be a choice. And I prefer to think of it as a choice, myself. Everyone makes such a big deal out of sexual orientation, probably because everyone makes a huge deal out of romance itself. But who says you have to be attracted to one specific gender all your life? If there weren't such taboos and prejudices linked to homosexuality, if it was as much an accepted part of our lives as doing the groceries once a week, I am convinced that many more people would be open to the idea of relations with those of the same sex, and would routinely switch between the two genders, just for kicks. Essentially, if it were not tabooed, a large sum of the population would be bisexual. And then you'd always have a small percentage that obviously don't follow the trends and stick to a specific gender for whatever reason. I prefer to think of it like this: All your life, have you liked one single colour only? Has one colour been your favourite colour since you can remember? Some of you, sure, maybe, and cool for you. But not me, and I'm willing to bet not most of you either. Why did that change? Red used to be your favourite colour, but now it's second-best to green. You can't explain it, you just prefer the shade, you like what it reminds you of, how it makes you feel. Liking a colour, liking anything, is an attraction. Now you see where I'm going with this. Sexual orientation is an attraction and it can change. Not overnight, definitely not, but it can change. And the only reason why it can change is because everyone assumes their child is straight from birth. However, there are always and always will be cases that disprove my view. You can all promote the notion that sexual orientation is genetic, and I won't disagree (completely) because I used to think that way too. But I've thought about it and this is the conclusion I've come to. tl;dr it's a choice. |
Born that way.
Never understood why some people think it's a choice, because why would some people choose something that causes pain, and drives some people to suicide? >_> I mean, really. |
Neither.
Any person is simply the culmination of all of the events they've experienced in their life. Even their sexuality is shaped by people/things around them as they grow up. |
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It's not a choice. Who would choose to be hated and discriminated against? |
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I have never liked a girl in a romantic way. Your color analogy does not work. At all. Color and who you love aren't the same thing. |
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I'm disgusted :< But... To each his own :D I know for sure, no queer person can say that it's a choice. When does one choose to be straight? Or is the world even ready to accept it as a choice? There are still people like "Atomico" who just find it hard to accept homosexuality. You're born gay, definitely. I know for sure; my childhood was spent fighting bullies who called me a "weirdo", "gay", "sissy" or a girl. If I wasn't always gay (bisexual actually) then... |
I don't think you can just pick and choose things like that. And if you find yourself flip-flopping back and forth anyway I'd think you were bisexual or some other terminology that I probably am not familiar with. :x So yeah, I'm pretty sure you figure out your preferences rather than making a direct decision. You could say that's "being born with it" but at the same time I don't really believe that anything is predetermined - you just come into it on your own, I think.
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Good for you, maybe you're part of the exception. You're really not giving me enough to work with here to actually make a valid argument. My colour analogy works just fine. Colour and who you love are the exact same thing when you break it down to what it is, and for that, I redirect you back to my original post. Quote:
Be disgusted. I really could not give less of a crap. You're taking my argument way too seriously, as if I'm a homophobe of some sort. Just because I think it's a choice does not mean I'm against homosexuals and believe that certain homosexuals can just up and change their sexual preferences. Not at all what I said. What I find hilarious is that I give an actual, detailed response of why I think it's a choice, and all you can come back with is "You're born gay, definitely." oh, damn I'm convinced. You're right I'm wrong. Yeah and my childhood was spent playing Pokemon. Now I'm on a Pokemon forum. I really don't see your point. Just because someone treats you as something doesn't mean you are that thing. Grow a pair, seriously. |
i don't think it's a genetic condition, and i agree with some of (edit: all of, since i've seen his most recent post) what penatrait has to say. i see sexuality as more of a personal fetish than an encoded orientation, and i think the ideas that people are attracted to either one or the other and gender will define your love life are products of social upbringing. i don't think it's the type of attraction that can be easily altered but it differs from person to person, depending on their perspective and their romantic feelings for another. i've seen generally straight people develop attraction to people of their own gender (usually men in the locker room), sometimes because of romantic feelings. in this topic, people tend to exchange love and attraction as if they mean the same thing, but emotional attachment has more bearing on a meaningful, romantic relationship than physical attraction. like, i wouldn't pass a good romantic fling with a woman because i'm generally attracted to masculinity. i feel like i didn't really organize my thoughts well here but ah, i'm done typing
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I'd like to think it is arguably genetic, hence 'born this way', but that would contradict a particular experience my brother had with homosexuality, so my final verdict would be that I seriously have no idea and cannot really fathom it.
The two posters above me make a valid point, though. |
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But in general I agree with you. Sort of. I think that orientation comes out (haha) in several ways and that no single one factor is solely responsible for everyone's orientation. I do think genetics play a big role though. I'm still open to the idea that people can 'choose' how they are attracted to people though I wouldn't want to use the word 'choose' since it implies it's a conscious decision. I don't think it is. If anything I'd say there is an element of association (in which case the color analogy is somewhat applicable) where something that is pleasing to a person get associated with a particular sex, or sexes. I suppose you could equate that to a fetish, but again I don't want to use that word because it carries a lot of baggage, though I personally don't have a problem with non-violent, consensual fetishes. In general I'd think that all sexuality is some mishmash of genetics and environment. The only problem I'm having is why so many people end up becoming straight. I know we're a heteronormative society so there's the constant reinforcement of a female/male dichotomy, but that's so abstract that I have trouble seeing how it would affect someone's, er, mojo libido. I can only feel like there's a strong genetic factor which causes the majority of people to have a default "straight" orientation. |
I agree with lil Penatrait to some extent, after talking on MSN about this. Speaking of that, use some of those examples you used when talking to me. But anyway, I'm a bit in the middle. I think, in certain situations, it is a choice, but more often than not, then no, I don't think it's of that person's choosing. But you know, I don't think there's one definite answer to this tbh. But that makes it all the more fun to discuss, I reckon.
Edit: I don't wanna post again, but I just wanna say I agree fully with Klippy down below me here. |
I personally feel it's just part of who you are. It's not who you are, but it's part of what makes you, you. And whether it be how you're born or a choice that you date men or women, if you're happy with who you are, then that's all that matters in the world.
A family member of mine is gay and has been since a very young age. He didn't know he was, and was nearly engaged to a woman at one point. So do I think he chose to be gay? No, though I don't know whether it was because he realized he was or whether he was dating women to cover it up. Still. It makes me love him no less because of it, and that goes in regards to any relationship, whether friends or family. They're the same person they always were and always will be, but one trait has changed in the many that they have. If someone else thinks it's a choice, then accept that and move on. It doesn't really affect your life by what they think, so why get up in arms about someone voicing their opinion in an opinion-orientated forum? If you don't like seeing other people post what they think, then go find somewhere else to frequent, because this obviously is a poor choice for you to be browsing in. |
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Teenage relationships aren't even serious. I'm disgusted because you implied that all relationships are throw-away non-serious ones. Not being a choice part is my opinion. I'm not dissing out anybody else's opinion. But I'm gonna say something if I don't think your reasons are correct, or at least if they don't make any sense to me. |
Neither.
I believe one's orientation is a result of their lifetime's worth of experiences, coming together in a very messy equation chock full of way too many variables to form orientations. While theoretically it can change, it is not as simple as a choice and requires quite a lot more work than simply choosing to actively pursue. Even then, the equation is so full of variables that all you can do even if you want to is guesswork, so it may simply never work even if one tried hard. In short, orientation is a complex, virtually unpredictable (but not technically truly impossible) thing that can potentially be associated with a wide variety of causes, and can also be directly influenced, though how an event influences one is in fact subjective, meaning there is no universal way to effect someone's orientation, though humans vary little enough that a pattern could potentially be made, though it would very easily be destroyed between cultures and through time. Y'know, I wonder if someone has already created and studied a theory like this. That'd be an interesting read. On the off chance nobody has, perhaps one day I will be the one to do so. |
You are born gay/bi/whatever. The same way anyone is born straight. You can't decide what turns you on, and get's the hormones flowing. It's just how your body reacts, and it's the same as how someone might like spicy food over sweet. You can't choose that, you just like that type of food.
BUT, you CAN choose to be in a homosexual lifestyle, but be straight. You could be straight and kiss boys and touch their manly parts. But that doesn't make you gay. Doing does not equate desire. I don't choose to be gay anymore than anyone else chooses to be straight. Let's put it this way: I see a naked dude, my pants get a little tighter. I see a naked chick, nothing happens. I don't believe I choose when to get my erections. |
To a certain extent, it is by birth. I have gay friends who have told me they've never been attracted to someone of the opposite sex. They had no idea why, that's just how it was. It wasn't something they could explain, so I don't really take anyone (who is critical of homosexuality) who claims to understand seriously :/
But then again, for others, it's a choice. Poop happens, people go through things. Things that give people the opportunity to ~make a choice~. I won't go too far into my opinion, the last thing I want is a debate. I guess the bottom line of what I'm trying to say is EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT, DEAL WITH IT LUL. |
People have points with that "why would you chose to be discriminated against" point. It's more accepted now so people can chose it but I think it's more of a fashion mentality. Oh I think this once, it's what I am. You can chose what to be in life.
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Lol at how much provocations this thread made.
Anyway, it's not at birth or anything. It's an acquired trait. Atomic guy btw next time you attempt to troll homosexuals try not to come with a religious reason. (I once trolled a religious forum and most of the responses said it's some mental illness.. hahahahahahaha, the irony. I even went to a friendly neighborhood gay forum and made a giant flamewar haha) |
I think it's more a choice than present at birth. Imo your sexuality is a product of life experiences rather than genetics. I find it hard to believe that there is such a thing as a "gay gene" since to pass on your genes you have to be straight. I know genetic mutation is possible but seriously gay people are not mutants.
As for the choice side of things, meh. As I said I think it's a produce of experiences which may or may not have been by choice. So perhaps some contributing factors were due to choice but overall sexuality is mostly out of an individual's control unless they lie to themselves and try to force themselves into being straight. |
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The idea that choosing to be a sexuality is like choosing your favorite color is a bit far fetched. Sexuality is an animalistic trait. You cannot mentally choose to change what makes your blood flow faster. Things like your favorite movie, color, and so on have to do with our higher intellectual capability. Animals don't see a color and prefer it the way we do, and they don't watch television and understand what's going on. Our intellectual capacity is always expanding and with it the things we like or prefer, due to these changes that take place. So I'll have to disagree completely with Penetrait. People don't choose their sexuality, and if we could, I wouldn't be a lesbian. I'm trying to prove your theory right now but so far I still like a pretty lady. Edit: @Razor Leaf; As a human with compassion for gay people, it's hard to consider them 'mutants'. But when we see people with cancer, or some other physical deformity we don't think of them as mutants, but with your logic they are. A mutation in a gene that would cause you to like the same gender and not further your species which without our intelligence (aka every other animal in the world) would make us useless is probable. Just because you don't want to call them 'mutants' which you don't have to, doesn't mean it's ruled out. And in some cases mutations are good, so you don't need to place negative emphasis on it. Quote:
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I definitely did not choose to be gay, but then I'm not so certain I was born gay either. This is mainly because I could probably identify a few things that might have unconsciously influenced my sexuality. On the opposite side, I can never pinpoint a part of my life where I've felt truly attracted to a female. So I'm not sure? Maybe it's a combination of genetic factors and social/psychological factors.
Although, as it's been stated a few times in different ways in this thread, I think what matters is not why we are one way but simply that we all accept each other as equals, regardless. |
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And I'm not just replying to you, it's everyone that has that opinion. I'm not against the point, because it makes sense. But it's worded in a weird way. |
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