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And if it bothers you that much then you can respond to this post that does no such thing. :) right down there VVVV Quote:
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And when you say that you've "chosen" not to be emotionally attached to a man, does that mean you're physically attracted to them? If so then it sounds more to me like you're gay but don't accept that part of yourself, which would make sense with your statement that you won't allow yourself to be emotionally attached to a guy. And I don't think he's part of the exception, looking at this thread he seems to be a part of the vast majority. XD Quote:
This is a good post imo. :) Quote:
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Not completely convinced by your story though. I mean, recognizing good-looking boys doesn't mean that you get the same sexual stimulation from them. Gay men can recognize a beautiful or hot girl, but they won't get the same sexual stimulation from looking at a hot guy. Quote:
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I do think sexuality is fluid to some extent. Many people, like bisexuals, report having occasional gay days or straight days in which they just lean towards one gender more than usual. It's limited, not like you can go from Kinsey 6 to Kinsey 0. Anyways I doubt you can choose what things you like. Perhaps it changes slightly over time, who knows, but I definitely don't think its a conscious decision. If it was, then I could shove bird poop down my throat and say that it was my favorite taste ever. http://fotpforums.com/images/smilies/6qjx4w.jpg |
As I said earlier, I believe the only choice someone has on their sexuality is whether they accept being gay or not.
But regarding the opinions mattering and whatnot argument that's going on with a few other people... think of it this way. You have been having chronic headaches for the past few months that come and go every other day. You don't know what the cause is for them, but you want to find out. Who are you going to go to and trust what they're telling you? You're going to go to your doctor. If you're worried, you're going to ask people you know what they think is causing it, but you won't know for certain what the cause is until you go to a doctor. Relating this example to our discussion, you can ask what other people think where homosexuality comes from (born this way vs choice, in this case), and you can gather their opinions, but the only people who will be able to tell you for certain are people who have experience in this. The only people who truly have experience in this argument are gay people. I say that simply because I know of a lot of girls (specifically) that "go gay" because the men that they've been with have all done them wrong in the past. Does that make them gay? No. They're still going to find men sexually attractive compared to women. They're opening themselves up to another sex. Not because of the sexual orientation, but because of the emotional attachment that they could get with a woman that they never had the ability to find with a man. People think that this automatically changes their sexual orientation, but it doesn't. "Going gay" doesn't affect someone's sexual orientation. As someone who believes that anyone has the ability to fall in love with anyone, regardless of sexual orientation, I can't change the fact that I find legs to be the most appealing aspect when compared to breasts or butts on a woman just as I can't change the fact that I find a toned stomach (not necessarily abs) to be something that are really attractive on anyone. Suggesting that someone's sexuality is a choice is like suggesting that you can make the choice of trying an exotic food of being good or bad. You taste it, and you like it or you don't. You don't decide whether you like it. As such, if you don't actually like it, you can't make the choice to suddenly like it then have another taste and find it the be the most delicious thing you've ever eaten. I don't think the people who are saying "I'm gay. I'm telling you that this isn't a choice." are trying to disprove your ability to formulate and express your opinion. They're just telling you that this is how it is as someone who's experienced what it's like to actually be gay. They're a lot more qualified to be able to give you a straight, sure-fire educated answer than someone who hasn't experienced it. Anyone can have an opinion. An opinion is "a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge." You can have your opinion, and believe what you want to believe, but the only people who know the answer are people who have experienced it. Obviously, the only people who can experience actually being gay are gay people. A straight woman can experiment with women all she'd like. She may like it, she may not. But she can't change their sexuality from being straight to gay by just being intimate with a woman. She's still going to find the men sexually appealing. Everyone's entitled to an opinion, but arguing that opinion as fact against people who have experienced being gay and know that it isn't a choice isn't exactly progressive. You can make the choice to limit yourself to the sex that you're sexually attracted to. You can make the choice of whether or not you want to be with someone, whether you find them sexually desirable or not. You can make the choice to experiment. But when it comes to sexuality in itself, you can't make the choice of being attracted to the same sex or the opposite sex. If you could, then all you would have to do is decide that you are now going to like the same sex sexually, and then suddenly you like them. That isn't how it works. Have any of you that are saying that it's a choice actually have sat there one day and have tried to make the choice of the sex you find sexually appealing? Sure, you may believe that, but have you experienced the moment of making the choice to find men or women (or both) sexually appealing? Did you look at a woman/man and decided "I'm really turned on by her/him!!" There's just a natural reaction in your body that gets you hot when you see someone sexually gratifying. You don't decide it. Sexuality relates to sexual feelings. And just as you don't decide on the emotion you're feeling, you don't decide your sexuality. That being said, I believe that you can make the choice of whether or not to be open to having a relationship with someone, regardless of your sexuality. But that choice doesn't mean that you're making the choice of being gay or being straight, or even being bi. Relating this, you can make the choice of wanting to be happy, but wanting to be happy doesn't make you happy. A gay person can make the choice of wanting to be straight, but wanting to be straight doesn't make you straight. |
It's not a choice.
In fact, if we didn't put some much attention on it and accepted it right from the start into society and treated it as a perfectly natural part of human life, we wouldn't be having this conversation and everyone's lives would be easier. "Coversion therapy? What's that?" "Another name for it is gay therapy." "....Gay therapy? is that- is that like when a guy gives another guy a massage or something?" "No, it's when someone who is gay goes to a therapist to become straight." "...." "What?" "I don't get it." |
My beliefs in this case: Your sexual orientation is not a choice. You are born that way and it is just a matter of discovering your sexual orientation. In today's generally homophobic society, I can understand why homosexuals would not discover it for several years because of fear of not being accepted, so they try to "convince" themselves to act straight. I am fully accepting of anyone, despite their sexual orientation. I think if the rest of us were like that, the whole world would be a much better place. I think homosexual couples should be allowed to get married and have every right that heterosexual couples have.
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And I also fully think that gays have the right to speak about this topic like they know it well because they do. They are gay, they know what it's like, they experience it everyday, they would know if they chose it or not. Saying they can't be experts on it is like saying just because you're straight doesn't mean you know anything about it. If someone came up to me and told me I chose to be straight and live a straight lifestyle, I'd be confused and offended. I never sat down as a five year-old and thought to myself "now....do I want to chase the boys around the playground or the girls? which lifestyle do I want for myself" No, I just like guys. Plain and simple. And I feel I can talk like I know a thing or two about being straight because I am, just like gay people can talk about being gay. |
One thing I don't understand is people who see it as a choice and then clarify it as sexuality being formed by experiences and environment in life. If your sexuality would be formed like that it would not be a choice. Those are two different things; before you say something is a choice please make sure you know what a choice is.
Now for my opinion, I am convinced it is not a choice. You can choose to date men or women, but you don't choose whether you're attracted to men or women. I am unsure however of how sexuality is formed. I don't know whether I was born this way. There definitely is a difference between emotional attraction and sexual attraction though. I can have a crush on guys as well as girls so I consider myself bisexual. I know that I can be emotionally attracted to both genders. But sexually, I definitely have a preference. Whether I follow that preference, THAT is a choice. But the preference is there. It's part of me. |
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Its just unconscious choice vs. conscious choice. It's definitely not a conscious choice, and an unconscious choice would be doing something that leads to homosexuality without knowing. At least they acknowledge that you can't just wake up one day and say I'm Straight hhaah |
Whether or not you can choose to be gay or not, it's not something to be mocked, because it is, very bluntly and probably slightly incorrectly, not being attracted to (in the case of men) boobs and the southern necessities.
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..these posts about how it's a choice is just making me sad.. it's like how inferno said.. it's like choosing to have autism or aspherger's syndrome, you can't choose it.. if I can choose to be straight well can't I choose already? I have been mocked at many times, and also my ex had made me hate giving guys a chance, but that still didn't make me straight, I was not aroused by girls even after that horrible break up. I really don't think it's a choice.. I only say I'm going to turn straight when it's a joke, geez take it as a joke.. >_> lol but um, it's not a choice I really don't think it's a mental disorder either, either you're born with it or not, that is all thank you 8D
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Being gay is absolutely not a choice. I get so tired of hearing this. Think of it this way: I could never imagine liking or being attracted to or being in a relationship with another girl. The thought just does not appeal to me whatsoever. Well, that's how it is for someone who is gay, just with the opposite gender. I think it's terrible how someone can be shunned just for loving who they want to love. All the Disney movies I watched growing up taught me to love whoever I want to love. Why is the world trying to tell someone who is gay differently now?
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I personally think you're born with it. You can't choose it. You don't really realize it, though, until you get to the stage of puberty. I think you're born with it.
But, as for the user who said it is a disorder... what the heck. No, just no. Homosexuality is NOT a disorder. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it. And for people who do think it's wrong, people beside the user who said it's a disorder, is just... I'm disappointed in them. Being gay, there's nothing wrong with it. You're just born with it, and you don't realize it until puberty. There's nothing wrong with being gay. It's natural. I'm just speaking my thoughts here. |
I don't think the question matters unless you're trying to understand human sexuality from a scientific perspective. Whether they are born as such or become such through their experiences, the cause doesn't matter. I don't see homosexuality as a problem, so I don't really care. There are more important things to think about and real problems to deal with.
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I'm not sure about being born with it. It could be born with it or your surroundings or a mixture of the two.
Either way, it's certainly not a choice. And I think Atomico's post would surprisingly back up that argument despite it's actual intentions. Quote:
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Born that way, you can't choose your sexuallity.
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It's suprised me how many bigots there are here; it's no way a disorder! I am gay, I didn't choose it, nor was I born it, I believe it came around because of life experiences.
All of my remaining family members when I was born were female; I never had any male influences til I was around 4/5. I believe this contributed to my homosexuality; and I also believe the fact my mum is in a civil relationship made me realise my orientation. But, unlike many gay people, I can accept that some people simply don't like the lifestyle, and that's fine, until it results in hate crime. I know discrimination is bad, but to be quite honest, I've accepted that many minorities (Muslims, black people, Jews) have discrimination on many degrees. I also think that countries and US states have the right to ban homosexuality or gay marriage. It's all to do with their common beliefs and if people are gay in those states or counties, then they should seek refuge in a different country/state to avert this. The death penalty however, is a stroke too far. |
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I have to say I agree with this. I found your color analogy kinda strange, but I can kinda see where you are going. Like you said, sexual orientation of a choice as to who are you attracted to. Tastes do change. There have people gay people who have gone straight or decided they were bisexual. And from a quote that I've been taught in the bible along time ago, it was kinda hinting that one can change their sexuality if they choose to. But like you, I'd would probably be jumped for this. :-/ |
Even though favourite colours and tastes and stuff change, you can't consciously change them yourself. Is red your favourite colour because you chose it to be? If it is, then it's not really your favourite colour, it's just what you tell people is.
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Do people get to choose eye/hair colour at birth? No? Same with sexuality.
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But I definitely agree that in MOST cases, the majority belief should be taken into account. Quote:
If the world really was like that, and gay was the norm. I think that it is POSSIBLE that I would come to the conclusion that sexuality is a choice. I really want to know what your thoughts are; don't worry I will respect your opinion this time. |
woI think some people are more flexible than others. Some people are what they are and can't change it. Others might be able to choose who they like physically. But emotional love is something no one can choose or control. I think you have to fall in love to find out for sure. I'm pretty sure you're born the way you are too. There is nothing wrong with homosexuality either. It's not a disease nor is it anything to be ashamed of. I like women but I'm not uncomfortable with the idea of falling in love with a man. I just have to wait to fall in love to find out. And there's definitely a difference between opinion and bigotry. "Homosexuality isn't wrong" isn't just an opinion, it's a fact. Anyone who thinks there's something wrong with it, that's not an opinion, that's prejudice. It shouldn't be used as an insult either.
On a side note, I think saying "gay" when complaining about something isn't as wrong as it seems. I know quite a few people who are tolerant of homosexuals, but still use "gay" when complaining. They don't actually think gay is bad, it's just something they say as a completely different definition. Although I can see how it can be offensive, it just depends on how they use it and what you think of it. I just don't think it's a 100% offensive. Also, I've been wondering, has there ever been any game with a homosexual main character? One of the three main characters in my hack is a homosexual, and while it's not the focus of the game, it's something I hope people can learn to tolerate. And NOT just because she's a female. I hate it when people are okay with lesbians but not gay men. |
To be honest, I hope if I have a son one day that he is gay. haha. I am like Will's crazy ex-wife from Glee!
Don't worry I am joking; I would love my son if he was straight too! The truth is that gay, straight, lesbian, transgender, bisexual, poly-amorous, and everyone else in between do not choose to have their brains release certain response stimuli in accordance to sexual orientation. I think for some people, chemicals send mixed signals, and they kind of have to "experiment" with sexuality and love. |
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If the bible said that being straight was wrong and being gay was the way to the pearly white gates, then I'd have to chose to be gay because I don't want to to go to the inferno. Plus, it would be another thing for people to point fingers and laugh at me about. If I was asked to change me sexuality however, that would be hard for me because I can't see myself being into girls. I can't see myself living that lifestyle. |
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