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What do you hate seeing in stories?
The title explains my question. Everyone has something that immediately turns them off a story or at least makes them mentally groan. Whether it’s something as specific as certain overused starters or just bad writing, it’s enough for them to press the backspace button.
For me, I hate journey fics that don’t have an ounce of originality. Pretty much all of them start off the same: main characters goes to professor’s lab, gets Pokemon, meets obvious rival and / or love interest, then proceeds to have a cookie-cutter journey in the region of their choice. Some try to at least make an effort by having a spooky prologue, but then just go back to the cookie-cutter stuff in chapter one. The Pokemon world has so much potential and they waste their time writing something like that? It just boggles my mind. |
For me, I hate journey fics that don’t have an ounce of originality. Pretty much all of them start off the same: main characters goes to professor’s lab, gets Pokemon, meets obvious rival and / or love interest, then proceeds to have a cookie-cutter journey in the region of their choice. Some try to at least make an effort by having a spooky prologue, but then just go back to the cookie-cutter stuff in chapter one. The Pokemon world has so much potential and they waste their time writing something like that? It just boggles my mind.
I agree with the bold greatly, which is why I've shied away from making those types of fics. I believe the journey genre of Pokemon fan fiction is a bit boring and bland now which is why I stopped writing those. It's like playing the game without being able to actual play it. |
If we're talking about just plots (because formatting can also make me hit the back button right away... which I'll get into in a second), then I'd like to expand what's already been said to a lot of things in general. If you have to say that your fic is based on [something else in fandom], then I hit the back button. It's not just cookie-cutter journey fics, either. History fics, rebirth fics, and creepypasta tend to be notorious for this. Dark fics sometimes too. Generally anything trendy on a writing community, really. No, saying, "OMG I LOVED THIS STORY SO I'LL DO SOMETHING LIKE IT TOO" is not telling me that your story will be amazing too. It's telling me that A) you're only capable of copying someone else's work and that B) you're one of the annoying, squeeing fankids in this fandom. The kind who flail in one-liner reviews to what's actually a mediocre fic.
But of course, I don't generally judge a book by its cover, and just because someone wrote a journey fic or a history fic doesn't necessarily mean that it's terrible. Sure, there's a decent probability that it's a dry and trite crapfest, but unless you're stupid enough to go "OMG THERE'S THIS OTHER FIC THAT'S AMAZING, AND THIS WILL BE EXACTLY THE SAME," I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. However, what really makes me jump for the back button is crappy formatting. Yes, cover and book, but there's a reason for that. If you don't format your story correctly, use all kinds of font colors besides the one that's default for my current skin, violate half the basic grammatical rules of the English language, and generally go out of your way to make your story unreadable for certain people due to no other reason but ~*~artistic purposes~*~, I'd like for you to know that this kind of behavior literally gives me a headache, and when I have a headache, I start punting kittens. Therefore, the logical conclusion is that you hate kittens, and you should be ashamed of yourself. Beyond that, things that will make me not read your fic (but are not entirely part of the story): 1. Any amount of begging for reviews, particularly in author's notes. If you start a chapter saying, "I'm sure no one reads this," you can guarantee that I no longer will. 2. Shippy fics that in some way involve your OC. These OCs are most likely Mary Sues, particularly if they're actually in a pairing with your favorite character. Luckily, besides dA, these haven't been popular in this fandom for a long time. It was hilarious back before RSE came out, though. And by hilarious, I mean annoying. You'll still get 'em from time to time (particularly on dA and sometimes here), so... yeah. 3. Certain genres. High school AUs are usually written by people who actually don't know what high school is like, so they tend to be rather ridiculous. Rebirth fic I never liked due to the over-the-top angst of a lot of them. Anything that has over-the-top angst, including a lot of shippy fics involving Paul for some reason. Dark fic that goes over-the-top with the fact that it's dark. (Pokemon MASTER is at least hilarious. Anything else that tries to be ultraviolent and adult just looks like it's trying too hard.) Parodies that try to emulate badfic (for the "you're trying too hard" factor). Yes, I know that these points are rather vague, but if I tried to tell you all the things that were wrong with those genres or those elements besides the "OMG I'M DOING WHAT EVERYONE ELSE IS DOING" factor (and the obvious in the case of the first point), this post would be pages upon pages long. And it's pretty bitter as it is, so... yeah. |
"OMG I'M DOING WHAT EVERYONE ELSE IS DOING"
^^^ This for sure. I remember when I was writing PSM: DP, I was getting a TON of PMs from authors who told me they wanted to do a fan-fiction that was formatted similar to mines. Flattering, but it was kind of annoying at the lack of originality. Which is one thing I hate in a fic is lack of originality. |
While I haven't gotten anyone asking to create a fanfic similar to mind, I've definitely seen the bandwagon effect in action concerning the 'human reborn as a Pokemon' sub-genre over on fanfiction dot net. It was inspired by A Little Night Music (which I never read and I'm not sure that's the correct title) and it created a rockslide of fanfics that I avoided like the plague. The whole genre never really interested me and it just seemed far-fetched, no matter the reasons.
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That said, I generally avoid chosen-one fics because that usually entails a journey of sorts, another thing which is done badly and frequently abandoned. Hell, a lot of journey fics barely make it past the first chapter. On the subject of chosen-one fics, a lot of newbie writers never actually give a reason as to why this person is chosen. Otherwise, it's a weak reason like a prophecy or an heir or something, nothing original, and the character never (or barely) protests when it comes to this kind of thing. I have nothing against these kinds of fics personally, but the majority of newbie writers to the fandom pretty much turn me off these kinds of stories. |
Ah, chosen one fics. I had completely forgotten about those. While they, at least, have a bit more originality than regular journey fics, I always get exasperated by the constant hammering of 'this character is super-special, and of course the world bends over backwards for them, didn't you know they were the chosen one?' Not to mention they almost always have very human-acting talking Pokemon that only they can hear.
And don't get me started about prophecies. Why can't main characters be normal people on a journey that just happens to get in over their head? Why do they need to be a chosen one predicted by a very ancient prophecy? It's boring. |
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Nothing did. Hit the back button, got up, and had to walk off the feeling of wanting to punch something hard. The other rebirth fics that were spawned from that one aren't that much better, in part because they suffer from the same problem as high school AUs: the people writing them don't actually know what it's like to suffer from psychological problems. Either that, or they don't really know how to describe bullying, so they go over-the-top with the angst. (Or even better, have people off themselves in ways that clearly show how little they actually know about basic biology.) And what really pisses me off about the rebirth genre is that people still ate/eat it up. But then again, people in fandom love angst, so I guess I'm not entirely surprised. Also... Quote:
But either way, yeah, it's really mind-boggling for that exact reason. I mean, really? Rhetorical question time! Do the things that happen in your fics actually happen to you in school, kids? |
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Maybe it has something to do with age because I remember loving angst fics back in the day, but it annoys me that people can put so little effort in their stories and still get so much attention. … Meh, maybe it’s just FF dot net that has that problem. PC doesn’t have enough activity to judge and I don’t surf Serebii. |
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It's really more about the content. Actual clinical depression is nothing to joke about, and from first-hand experience, I can tell you that being bullied and experiencing psychological abuse isn't glamorous either. It always pisses me off when people glorify it, but it really pisses me off when other twerps say that any fic that does qualifies as good writing. Sorry but no. I can't speak for anyone who has depression, but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't want to see inaccurate, Hollywood-style depictions of what they're going through. As for bullying and abuse, it's hard to say why depictions of that piss me off without getting too personal, but all I can say is even if you're whisked away to a fantasy world full of the things that keep you from killing yourself, even if you had the chance to have your own starter and go off on a journey through the world of your daydreams, even if you had the chance to wake up as a Pokémon, even if you could shrug off your life right now and skip off into Happy Fun Candy Land, you will still be ****ed up in the head. And if you don't get that, then you shouldn't be writing a character who's actually suffered psychological issues. I'm sorry to put it that way, but abuse, trauma, psychological disorders -- things are just not Happy Fun Candy Land for you if you actually suffer or have suffered through these things. You will not be able to form the same kinds of relationships with other people as normal kids. And if you glorify that by creating characters who suffer through that without doing any kind of research or at least asking someone with experience (i.e., by creating a character who's stereotypically emo), you are going to create a character who's fake and, frankly, offensive to those of us who actually have problems. And if you encourage that crap by thinking it's awesome writing just because the character is so ~*~dramatic~*~ and has ~*~suffered~*~, no. Just... no. Granted, I should be one to talk because, yeah, back in the day, I thought drama = good writing too. It's a teenager thing. But now, after having graduated high school and after looking back and realizing a lot of things that were going on (and then cutting ties with God knows how many bits of baggage... and by that I mean people who treated me like crap), it just gets me angry to read something that fake and shallow and hear that there's a lot of people who think it's great. (The author's attitude isn't that awesome, either, which is why I would never, ever leave a review to that story. Not to mention some of his groupies are pretty much average BNF fare -- psycho.) And while A Little Night Music tends to tread thin ice when it comes to fake and shallow angst, it's really the spin-offs that deserve this much of a verbal beating for their depictions of abuse. And that turned out way more personal than a lot of you probably wanted to see, but the point is... yeah. Stereotypical angst (with "OMG MY FAMILY IS POOR NO ONE LIKES ME EXCEPT MAYBE ONE PERSON MY LIFE SUUUUCKS") is not cool in my books. Sorry. Edit: Aaaaand I'd like to apologize for basically raging all over this post and implying that people can't write whatever they merry well please. In fact, if that's your cuppa, fine. It's just that if the subject isn't treated seriously instead of "I'm including this because it's ~*~edgy~*~/~*~dramatic~*~/the kind of thing that makes my fic even cooler," I'm more likely to hit the back button and also wish for a button that will backhand you if pressed. Quote:
As for angsty bandwagon fic, you don't really see too much of it. There's Fad by [Imaginative] and New Game by our very own Misheard Whisper (both of which of course pulled in more reviews for a one-shot than any other I've seen so far -- the former apparently on the virtue of playing up the nostalgic factor), but if anything, the only kind of bandwagon fic you might see there is journey fic. But I can't blame them for that because, honestly, it wouldn't be a Pokémon forum if there wasn't an overabundance of journey fic at all. Beyond that, you might have people attempting to copy off Ysavvryl's idea of creating a short story for every Pokémon in a kind of literary Pokédex, and I think someone once tried to rip-off Missingno Master's utter brand of ridiculousness brand of utter ridiculousness, but beyond that, they at least have some form of decency. deviantART, on the other hand... is deviantART. Also, don't get me started on LiveJournal. (I'm pretty sure no one writes about anything besides sex and angst on that site. And I don't mean sex or angst. I mean sex and angst.) |
I find that people in this day and age tend to glorify suicide, cutting, and prostitution. When I was in ninth grade, my English class got an assignment to write a short story and we would share our progress throughout the two months we worked on it. While my story was about a group of college girls summoning a demon, I was kind of weirded out that all the other stories were about prostitution and suicide. Of the two stories I looked at, one was about a prostitute who cuts and who is pinning for a prince, who happens to fall in love at first sight with her, and the other was about an emo teen who watches someone kill themselves in a bathroom then converts another girl who’s about to commit suicide into a vegetarian then starts dating her… I think, it’s been a long time since ninth grade.
Either way, that type of stuff is really popular with the younger crowd. Luckily, it’s really just a phase and as those people grow up, they will understand how bad those topics really are and stop using them. Quote:
I’ve always tried to get into LiveJournal fanfiction, but I never like the format of it. And now that I think about, most of the fics on there are of sex and angst. I don’t know why I’ve never noticed but I can’t recall ever reading a fic on there that isn’t associated with sex. Maybe it’s because LiveJournal caters to an older audience? Quote:
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Some things turn me off about fanfiction
1. Yaoi/yuri. It's severally overrated and it's stupid that two canon characters who are the same sex can't be friends without the fandom paring them as a romantic couple. Also same with OC's. I find that most people pair two people of the same sex together to say "LOOK IM NOT A GAYE HATUR!11" or just to be trendy. After being in the Sonic fandom and seing the amount of yaoi/yuri fics on FF.net, it's not original. It's annoying. In fact, there was only one good yaoi fic I've read and it was on DA of all places. I liked it because it seemed natural and not forced. And the characters were themselves. 2. Adventure or action fics that have more romance than actual action. I hate when people do this and not alot do this but I wanted to point this out. I don't mind if in the story, two characters are a couple, but when the whole story is focused on their relationship when it's really about something adventure related, it makes me loose sight of what the plot is about. Harry Potter does this nowadays. 3. Fics that involve cannon characters dying or getting killed. I hate it, I hate it, I hate it. Why is it so trendy is beyond me. What puts the icing on the cake is that these canon characters get killed by the writer's OCs :=/ 4. Shipping fiction that is canon character/OC. Those turn boring quickly because the character ends up being a mary sue. Last but not least, fanfiction with lemon scenes that are just distasteful. What I mean is that, if you must write a lemon/lime scene, don't do it like if you were trying to show off. Inshort, you don't work in the porn industry, so don't use terms you hear in their movies. Instead of using the F word, use fornication. It's more professional. Use blanket terms that are professional. |
Gothitelle, a general tip: please don’t post in bright pink text; just use the default one that is available to you. Since I’m using the Leafeon / Glaceon layout, the pink is really blinding.
And I agree with a lot of what you put, especially number two. Romance is something that has never interested me and I don’t like it when the story really concentrates on it to the detriment of the plot. Of course, I do expect romance to happen in fanfiction because no one can seem to not keep it out of their stories, but I like it low-key. Actually, this is the problem with most slash fics, I find. The stories all seem to focus heavily on the romance and there never seems to be any plot beyond it. The several slash fanfics I enjoy either keep the romance low-key or have it as just another aspect of a friendly relationship. Off-topic question: is anyone finding the Remove Text Formatting button to be acting weirdly? It won't change my text into the default. |
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Plus, speaking of emotions, it might be better to have more harsh-sounding language being used to describe dub-con or non-con. Getting the characters' emotions out there in the writing. If the writing is harsh and gritty, then the reader feels more of the harsh and gritty. And really, a writer shouldn't be worried about not offending people with their word choices. A writer is showing the truth about their subject, and saying that characters had a good **** is better than two people came together and fornicated (which makes me giggle like the twelve-year-old I am). And also, "fornicated" tends to mean premarital sex, which doesn't hold true for all couples. Just no "magic yogurt-spewing meat rod" please. There's a line that shouldn't be crossed. My avatar makes every topic more hilarious. Quote:
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Sorry about the signature color. Oh and another thing I missed.
Fakemon. They are so overpowered... don't get me started. Especially ones who are "Pikachu's long lost brother/son/uncle/etc" |
While there's nothing inherently wrong with Fakemon - in my opinion, at least - I tend to not bother reading fakemon fics. Why? Well, I guess I just feel that they're a bit unnecessary. Unless it's actually a major plot point (like, say, an Absol that's been forced to 'evolve' into a new Pokemon by genetic manipulation/magic/whatever), my logic is . . . why not just use the ones Nintendo has supplied? There are certainly no shortage of them. And in my case, the Pokemon themselves are often not the focus of the story, so I don't see any particular need to make up more. People wanting to create their own Pokemon . . . while I appreciate the creative impulse, and it can be effective when done well, I just can't get my head around the necessity. Normally, people create new characters and things to fill holes in canon - inadequately explored areas. Pokemon - the creatures themselves - certainly do not fall into that category. There are plenty of holes within the Pokemon themselves, which, if anything, makes it easier to use them to your own ends. For most Pokemon, all we have to go on is a few brief Pokedex entries. There is so much one can do with that without resorting to making up your own entirely new one.
As for my own pet peeves . . . hmm. I won't say journeyfics, for while it is true that the vast majority of them are terribly poorly written and often abandoned at the first hurdle, I have seen some good ones around. The same is true for any genre, I suppose, but I've come to automatically gloss over the slushpile without even noticing it's there, so that's pretty much dulled me to them. I will say Pokemorphs. It's not like half-Pokemon, half-human hybrids squick me or anything (in fact, I saw a very attractive Furret gijinka on dA just the other day - if anyone takes the preceding out of context, I will kill you). It's just that more often than not, they are blatant excuses for self-insert fics. People want to be Pokemon, but they don't want to actually have to go through the effort of thinking how they would act and live if they were actually a Pokemon. So they go halfway - give their character a tail and some ears, so that they're 'almost' Pokemon. They don't need to worry about adapting to suddenly being a lot bigger/smaller, or worry about what they're going to eat, or about getting captured by a Trainer. They can still talk, communicate and generally live life as they would as a human. Yet they have the superhuman senses or whatever that come with being half-Eevee or whatever. In other words, they get all of the good and none of the bad. I'll also mention lemons here, but not in the way you might think. I actually like to read horrible out-of-character lemons (as long as the writing quality itself is passable) because they make me laugh so hard. Not a fan of yaoi, but that's just a personal preference as opposed to any ingrained hatred of yaoi writers or anything. I will agree with Jax on angst and depression here, sososo much. (i see your mention of new game there what are you up to :p) It's actually just disgusting to see people - essentially - make light of something that is a legitimate, crippling and debilitating problem for a large percentage of the human population. People think they understand depression when they don't, and I think that's the biggest problem. 'My parents won't let me go out with my friends! Welp, better slit my wrists. I got a bad mark on my maths test and an old lady at the bus snapped at me because I didn't give up my seat. Oh well, off the bridge we go.' It's just a bit sickening. Not simply because of how lightly they treat it, but because they are simply proudly flaunting their ignorance for the world to see. I, too, have been bullied for a good part of my life. Because I could do things other people couldn't, and because I couldn't do things other people could. Never physically - nobody ever tried to beat me up or anything - but with words, with actions and exclusions. It was really bad at several points throughout my childhood, but each time I dealt with it, or it was dealt with for me. In hindsight, I came close to the edge of that slippery slope down to genuine depression a few times. I remember one time, actually - just a little over two years ago. I was in Dad's car on the way to school and I literally broke down in tears because I couldn't go back to school and face another day with the jokers that made my life hell at that point. Dad turned around and took me home right then, and for that I'll be eternally grateful, because I honestly think that making me go to school that day would have pushed me over the edge. Sure, I wouldn't have gone into the toilets at lunch and started cutting, but that day easily could have been the point of no return. I don't like to think where I'd be even to this day. In fact, I don't think about it. This is the first time I've told anybody, too . . . which, in and of itself, is a kind of evidence that I've moved on. But let's just say that I could be a very different person today if one or more events in my life had gone a slightly different way. I wouldn't want people to pervert how serious that is in fiction. Also, AAML. Yuck. For some reason, I really don't like the pairing. I have read - I think - one AAML fic that I liked. Can't remember the name - just some little vanilla fluffy thing. It was cute and it made sense with the characters' personalities, which brings me to the main point - romance. This is definitely a personal preference, but I'm just not so hot on reading romance fics. Mostly because, like the depression thing, many writers have no bloody clue what they're talking about. 'Oh, Ash! I'm so sorry I've been such a b**** to you all this time! Let's make love!' And Ash is like '... sure, why not?' But I won't get into this too far, for fear of starting to rant. Or, y'know, getting into a flame war. I think I've talked quite enough for now, much of it about me and my personal problems. Sorry about that. I'll leave the wall-of-texting up to Jax and Shri- ... Where did that guy even go? o_O |
I think the single thing that turns me off a story the most is when the main character comes across to me as too much of a jerk without many redeeming features, especially when the author doesn't seem to view the character that way. Thankfully, I haven't observed this too much in fanfiction. The biggest examples I can think of are actually Light from Death Note and Lelouch from Code Geass. They were just so slimy/arrogant/sometimes-outright-evil that in both cases I stopped watching after the first few episodes in disgust, and only watched the whole things after much coaxing from my friends.
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Actually, come to think of it, that's another reason why I can't stand rebirth fics. Even if they don't mean it, they tend to imply that it's a good idea to kill yourself. I mean, you've got characters who do that, and then they're rewarded by having awesome adventures. Sure, it might not be what they wanted for an afterlife, but... yeah. But you're right in saying that it's a phase, and it's probably popular among the teens because puberty really messes with a person and forces them to be a little inclined towards the overdramatic. (Or a lot, in some cases.) And wishing that publicity for the fics that glorify crap like that would just die down won't stop someone from writing another morally terrible fic full of crappy treatment of the actually depressed, so not much else to say here besides, "Yes, it makes me feel like a pile of sunshine and daisies." Quote:
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Point of clarification: When Dagzar mentioned your color, she meant the color of your posts. As in, you're right now using a bright-pink font to write, and this tends to not agree with a lot of skins. I'd like to mention for the record that I'm using Unova's Violet Masquerade, which has a light background but tiny font. As a result, yeah, it's a bit difficult to read what you have to say. Also, the same could be said for Serebii, its green background, and your use of cyan font. Not exactly easy on the eyes there, either. Really, it's best to just leave your fonts default to avoid forcing people to squint, but usually, I personally don't care what font you use in your posts so long as you don't use it in your fanfiction. (Except you do, so yeah, you'll probably want to think about maybe getting rid of the font color tags around all of your posts.) Also, side note to Dagzar, but yeah, it's totally not working for me, either. IDK. IDEK. Quote:
Second, I'm pretty sure no one writes about Pikachu with a long-lost brother/son/uncle/whatever. Pikachu generally doesn't get Stu family members associated with it. (Ash, on the other hand...) Generally, fakemon are Pokémon completely separate from existing species, so fakemon authors don't really do things like say, "THIS IS FLAMECHU, PIKACHU'S SECOND COUSIN." Third, not all fakemon are overpowered. Quite a lot of them are actually parts of fan-created regions, so many fakemon are more or less pretty much like normal Pokémon. Sure, there's also a number of fakemon authors who create their own legendaries and do ridiculous things, but for the most part, yes, they're generally made for journey fics that take place in new regions. The main weakness fakemon fics suffer is the fact that not a lot of thought is put into them for the most part. It takes a lot of effort to come up with your own species. You need to know not only how to describe them but also what the limits of its powers are, what moves it can use, what kinds of habitats it's used to, and most importantly, why you can't just use a canon Pokémon instead. For example, I once read a fanfic where the main character's starter was a fire-typed horse that was basically exactly like Ponyta except for the name. (Same abilities, same moves, everything.) I called the author out on it, and no matter what he tried, he couldn't find a suitable explanation to tell me why he couldn't simply replace it with a Ponyta. Point is, just because you create a Pokémon doesn't necessarily mean you should use it. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't use it because it's powerful, and in fact, a lot of pretty cool fic revolves around fakemon in some capacity or another. (Lost Evolution, for example. The Quest for the Legends, for another. Ultimatum for an even better one.) And in my opinion, if done right and if you happen to be awesome at world-building, I personally think it's a great way to show off your creativity and attention to detail. But in order to pull it off, yes, you'll have to put a lot of thought into what you're doing, which a lot of people (especially on FFNet) unfortunately don't. Edit: Ninja'd! Man, we're starting to get awesome again! Quote:
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I'll put my input on this topic very soon, I promise!
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Oh god, look at all the replies! Must… reply… to… everyone… D:
I don’t have an opinion on fakemon, though I agree with Misheard Whisper that it’s probably better to just use a regular Pokemon most of the time. I suppose you need fakemon if you’ve created an original region, but I tend to stay away from that type of stuff. I’d rather just read the canon regions. I don’t mind lemons either because I just skip over those unless I’m really interested in reading them. On the subject of missing people, I haven’t seen Solovino around either. He hasn’t come on since October 2010 and I hope he’s okay. <_< |
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*derails thread* |
Journey Fics
I tend to read a lot of Journey fics in the beginning just to see how they will pan out for the first few chapters. As stated before, they tend to be cookie cutter and if I lose my interest, I doubt I will read anything else on that fic again. More times than not, Journey fics aren't completed, nor are they even out of the first few chapters (the protagonists journey 'ends' after the first gym, probably). However, if someone is capable of delivering an original plot along the journey, I may be interested in taking a look at it. I personally was a big fan of journeying fics, but that well ran dry for me. When I was making PSM: DP, I'll admit, I was pretty much using the plot of the Pokemon Diamond and Pearl game and just adding different kinds of twists and personalities along the way to make it entertaining. The same could be said for my fic (that didn't last too long) Black & White. Romance Driven Fics Bleh. I'm not a huge fan of obvious romance and shipping in fan fics if that's the main thing in it anyway. However, I do like slow build up relationships in a story. As stated earlier, romance probably can't be avoided whether it's straight or slash, but authors have to learn that almost nobody wants to read a Pokemon version of The Notebook. When done right, romance should be a minor subtopic in a story. Poke-Morph/Human-turned-Pokemon Fics I never was a fan of Mystery Dungeon nor Poke-Morphs so I have no comment on those types of fics. Just seemed a bit Digimon-ish to me, ha! "High School" based Fics I never understood the purpose of Pokemon High School fics, nor how they could even be written. *points to siggy* Right now I'm in the process of writing Elite Academy and I'm trying my best not to make it high school-ish. I think the main thing about High School fics is that they tend to have no plot at all and that they are almost always romance driven. Let's face it, it's almost impossible to have a plot be taken seriously for a Pokemon High School fanfic. It just won't work. Not for me personally, anyway. I've yet to see a fic of this nature done right. Then again, I don't read them. Use of Canon Characters in Fics I have no problem at all with authors using canon characters in their fics. The only problem I have is if you're going to use them out of their personality, don't make the changes completely drastic. For example, Lt. Surge shouldn't be wanting to hug his opponents after he loses to them and Blue shouldn't be the type of person to immediately spark a conversation with someone. When I use canon characters in my fics, I make sure that I study exactly how they were portrayed in their different medias (For me, it's in game or in the manga. Not a big fan of the anime anymore). |
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Alright, time for a bit of a rant. I’d like to talk about the bad writing technique known as character bashing. I haven’t seen it much in the Pokemon fandom, though I’m sure it’s prevalent when people write about the anime. Either way, it’s the one thing that I hate above all else. Let’s take the Harry Potter fandom as an example. I find a fic with an interesting summary, but just as I’m about to click on it I notice the summary also has written ‘Ron and Hermione Bashing! Manipulative Dumbledore!’ My eye twitches and I wonder why the writer had pissed on those character. Bandwagon, legitimate hate? Either way, no way I’m reading something as cookie cutter as that, so I move on and try to find something that actually treats all characters fairly. Character Bashing must be one of the worst writing techniques I’ve seen and it doesn’t help that it’s so popular these days, that people don’t seem to know how bad it is. A writer’s opinion of a character should never interfere with their work. Actually, no opinion at all should. When I read a story, I want to be so pulled into a world that I forget I’m reading a story, and character bashing is a very good way to pull me out of it. I know people sometimes hate specific characters, but I’m appalled that some people think their flawed interpretation is actually how the character acts. This can happen with OCs too when a writer doesn’t know better. They create a character, maybe a bully for the main character, and then proceed to make sure that character is constantly humiliated and taken down by the main. There are no redeeming qualities to the hated character. They’re just there to be shat upon and maybe try to fight back in a stupid, dumb way. It’s just so annoying! I don’t want a read such a black and white story where everyone is either all good and all evil. And it drives me nuts that stories that don’t bash characters are so very rare that I have the take a shovel and go digging for them. Arggghhhhhhh. |
They create a character, maybe a bully for the main character, and then proceed to make sure that character is constantly humiliated and taken down by the main.
Some characters tend to have that Paul Syndrome too, where their rival is all powerful and stuff like that. Character development is a MUST for ALL characters who are appearing in multiple chapters in my opinion. What good is a rival for your main character if he or she doesn't develop as well? Is he or she not human? |
Fics altogether annoys me. I do original stories, and one only use another person's characters if commissioned to do so.
What really turns me off is bad grammar. I've pretty much given up reading anything labeled fanfic. Especially Pokemon. |
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And many times you see pairings of people who practically don't even know each other. It's so annoying. One example is Naruto. |
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You say you've "given up" on anything labeled fanfic, which would suggest that you've been interested in fanfiction before. It's true that the vast majority of fanfiction, including Pokemon fanfiction, isn't worth reading, but I wouldn't let that deter you. There really are some interesting stories out there written by talented authors. I'm sure any of us would be glad to direct you to some of our favorites if you're interested. EDIT: Oh, just noticed: Quote:
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I don't bother trying when I'm just posting. But 'altogether annoys' is correct, I'm fairly certain...I realize "fics annoys" isn't.
I've read a few here. |
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Script fics generally have me backing out faster than anything else. Even when I was required to read professional scripts for high school it was a chore because I simply didn't like the format. Badly written script 'fics' on any writing forum/website make me lose a little more faith in people. :p
Colored text and different fonts are also a given, for self-explanatory reasons. Titles are also a quirky pet peeve of mine. If the words "chronicle", "journey", "pokémon", "legend", and [insert any region name here], could be temporarily removed from the english language, a good chunk of the fictions I see every day would be without a title. Yes, you're posting this in a pokémon sub-forum/category. We all know it's pokémon. There is no need for you to put it in the title. Generic journeyfics also make me sigh every time I see the standard opening - kid wakes up, gets pokémon from professor, goes on journey. At this point in time I've seen them so many times I'd encourage people to actually write about different people other than starting kids. Or if the kid must start somewhere, start your fic well after he's gotten his first pokémon so you don't have to write about it much. High school fics I avoid all the time, on a daily basis. Sorry, been there, done that, don't want to go back. Even if you've tried to be different with it, I just can't force myself to sit down and watch/read a kid go through high school with 'drama' up until graduation. My high school years were very fun and memorable, but I'd prefer that they stay behind me and remain in the dusty cobwebbed corner of my mind. There are hardly any fics I see that actually put high school in a normal light anyway. Shipping fics I tend avoid as well. While I'm a hopless romantic, there are certain fandoms where romance doesn't interest me at all (for example, pokémon :p), and I'm only there for alternate 'what if' stories. Sometimes though, I'll click on a pairing if I think they could potentially have interesting dynamics. Creepypasta and horror fics are actually my favorite type of story - if done right. Making my heart physically race or giving me goosebumps while I'm reading is doing it right. If there is just random blood and gore with a 'twist' it makes me want to just sigh, sit the writer down, and ask them what really made them think this was creepy/scary. I could go on all day about atmosphere, subtlety, and the use of the human psyche, but I'm not sure they'd understand until they've truly been terrified themselves. Fear of what is in front of them is not what scares people, it's largely fear of the unknown. (i.e. Is this monster nice? Will it attack me? Where did it come from? Are there more? Will I die? What will happen when I die? Is it painful?) Dark fics are a toss-up. I've written/plotted a few out myself (currently writing one, actually) because it's almost therapeutic and puts my own emotions into perspective - but that's only for original characters that I've made. Canon characters I can't do unless the character calls for it. For instance, my eternal muse is a wonderful assortment of the nietzsche wannabe, misanthrope supreme, and woobie destroyer of worlds tropes - but he didn't just wake up like that one morning, his past and current life problems made him that way. Considering what had been done to him anyway, his character pretty much calls for the darkest of dark beginnings. He makes my problems look microscopic in comparison, and it makes me feel like if he lived that long living like that, I could get over a problem or two of my own. So, all in all, I don't mind dark fics so much so long as the original character called for it. As long as the fics are credibly decent and not done for the sake of being ~edgy~ they are good reads. Bad dark fic I back out of though, because it makes me roll my eyes and even laugh on occasion about how over the top it is. I do realize though that some people might also write dark fic to try and work themselves out of a funk, but are simply bad at writing/expressing it. So usually I'll simply back out and never touch it again rather than leave a review. (Bad Azurne, bad!) |
Another thing that annoys me is that authors try too hard to be something that they are not. For example, if you're good at writing the traditional story of a hero over coming the odds on his or her way to the top, then write that. However, don't get into writing noir-type stories where everything is dark and bleak, and leads to a tragic ending. More times than not, it doesn't sound right nor does it sound like your writing. It all leads to confusion and leaves a bad taste in the mouth of the reader!
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Also, Azurne, high-five! Horror is my favorite genre too. <3 |
Exactly, Dagzar. I started writing pseudo-horror out of curiosity, even though I thought I'd be no good at it. Turns out I'm not, really, but I still enjoy it greatly. Broken, Crushed, Digital Demons and so on . . . they're so far removed from anything else I've written, but I really loved writing them and apparently people enjoyed reading them. So there's not so much of a problem there. I accept that sometimes people should 'stick to what they know', but at the same time, it can't hurt to be adventurous.
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Too many S's...
I can't get into that one, either. Burnt out too soon. It isn't like I'm blaming the writers for my lack of interest in PC's fics, but...there's only one I find outstanding. On topic, I don't like when stories suddenly swap main characters. I realized it because I was doing just that, and did not favor the result. |
Well, fics where the main perspective changes from time to time are fine, if that's what you mean. But if you're talking about those where the focus suddenly shifts off the one who you thought all along was the main character, then . . . yeah. That's annoying, because it shows the author a) has gotten bored with their MC or b) just doesn't care about/realise what they're doing.
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I dunno, I’m kind of like a baby bird that way. I attach myself to the first character I see or who I label as the main character. Once that’s done there’s no turning back and any attempts to shake my attachment is met with rage. |
Yeah this is exactly what I was talking about. But the other protagonist doesn't have to get killed off. Sometimes he gets out shined by a character who frequently comments on his own awesomeness, and then the new guy is the star and the old one goes into support/sidekick/background role.
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I'll list everything that will cause me to hate a fanfiction.
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If it's done right I don't need details. I've read stories that desribed everything pretty decently, but the author clearly thought that made the story an instant hit. 9For any hyper mods there may be, this is what I hate to see in a story as well, right here)
The ones I have up on PC have little detail, and are all around, just plain. I've only posted them for the sake of argument; no one can say I haven't contributed. |
I can't stand the fact that 99% of fanfiction (not necessarily Pokefiction but you know) is freaking romance stories. Where are the stories of conquest? Of courage? Of justice? Of murder mysteries? We need more of those.
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I HAVE THE WORST TIMING. EVER.
to lose my internet, and I can't possibly reply to everything that's been said, so I'm going to go with this page. Quote:
Oh, did I mention the first lines?
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*shrug* Bandwagon hoppers aren't new to fandom, especially when the fandom is comprised of young adults. And since some young adults spend their time wanting to fit in with the cool crowd, they'll do anything to get their 15 minutes of fame. Pokémoncreepypasta just happens to be one of those new things all the cool kids are into, apparently. Honestly though, I would love to see some sort of guide on horror stickied to the top of each pokémoncreepypasta website... Now, on the other hand, if you really can't stomach reading any of them because you're picturing a kid behind the screen going 'hey I can write one of these too!' then... I really don't know what to tell you. XD |
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Didn't we all at one point read fanfiction, find wonder in it, and want to try it out for ourselves? |
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In all seriousness, I think you're on to something way more fundamental than just fanfiction. I bet if we think back we can all find some story that we read or heard which really struck us and made us want to emulate it, and that's how you start writing period. Heck, to make this even more fundamental, you learn language first by imitating, and only after learning enough do you start conveying something that's truly yours. So, when you see the odd 100% unoriginal and amateurish trainer-wakes-up-late story, think of it as the unappealing precursor to what could someday be decent work. The best thing to do is to write a review that thoroughly explains the work's problems, but ends with an encouragement to keep writing. A newb is a valued member of the community just waiting to happen. That said, you know what really bugs me? Purple prose: ridiculously flowery language. It gets on my nerves when a dramatic moment that would otherwise have a lot of punch to it has its suspense diluted by the author using too many fancy words to render something that's really simple, or when a normal passage is padded out to the nth degree by the same means. Especially off-putting to me is when the author repeatedly reminds me which precious metal or stone a character's eye color is closest to. |
Perhaps I'm jumping in unannounced, but I couldn't help but notice that not many people at the start of this thread are fans of reborn fics, mainly because they were (and perhaps still are, i don't know) wildly popular and generally poorly written. I mostly agree with this. Mostly. One thing I'd like to say is that many of the reborn fics that spawned from the original, which is indeed A Little Night Music over on ff.net, disgust me because they were spur of the moment, "Oh, this is cool, I can do it too!" fics that usually had very similar plots or characters. However, A Little Night Music actually wasn't bad; in fact, I enjoyed it, partially because it was the original and partially for the following reasons.
While riddled with grammatical errors that made me want to vomit at times, the story was solid after the initial few chapters. Not the grammar; that did not improve, unfortunately. The story, feelings, and meanings conveyed developed and improved in quality as the story progressed. By the end, the story had me thinking on an even deeper level than most stories do. I think its strongest selling point was the character development; while each character did have a depressing, violent, or downright dark past, they were all still varied in personalities, each having a different way of either hiding their past or dealing with their past. I have to admit, though, the excess of horrible pasts became rather vanilla after a while, but it wasn't too bad. And even with a myriad of characters, almost each and every one had some kind of development throughout the story, whether it was the main character realizing the follies of her suicide or the midget Skarmory learning to trust others. Anyways, maybe that whole portion of text means nothing to you, but this is the point I'm trying to get at. We all have things that just turn us off, but what's not to say that there aren't exceptions? A Little Night Music is (kind of) my exception to disliking reborn fics. I'd like to think that they have great potential if they evolve on their own, away from the ALNM plot and character pool. (This thought actually lead me to begin work on my own reborn fic, and I'd like to think it's coming along well.) Anyways, what really annoys me in a fic are as follows: 1) Overly generic and uncreative stories: journey fics, reborn stories, etc. There are some exceptions to this, though. I'll read a journey fic or reborn fic as long as they have unique perspectives, characters, plots, or some combination of them all. I.E. a journey fic that is told from a unique perspective and does not follow the games is usually OK, as long as it doesn't fall under my next category. 2) Rampant grammatical errors. I'm not talking a few here and there, I'm talking about all over the place. Sometimes the story and meaning will draw my attention away from this as it did in A Little Night Music, but it usually won't. 3) I agree with Mizan de la Plume Kuro (that's a lot to type, man) and Dagzar. I hate 'chosen one' fics. I wrote one once, and I started loathing it halfway through. Never finished it. 4) Shipping/romantic/anything with over the top love. I enjoy a little happy romance every now and then, but a whole story dedicated to one pairing? Too far, my friend. 5) Using characters from the games/movies/anime/manga in a fic isn't my cup of tea. There are a select few that do well, but most of them just end up annoying me. I never liked many of the anime/manga characters. I also tried writing one of these and after I finished it, I never looked back. That's mostly what turns me away from a story, but I'd like to think that each one has a couple of exceptions. I'm hoping to create one for the reborn genre with my fic, and I hope I can succeed. Oh, one more thing: Azurne pointed this out first, but the title of a story is what determines whether I choose one fic over another. An interesting, catchy, and unique title are very important in generating interest. I too avoid most stories with the words 'journey', 'adventures of', etc. Stories with names like a good one I found recently, 'The Thinking Man's Guide to Destroying The World', catch my attention. That's actually how I stumbled upon A Little Night Music; interesting title, so I gave it a shot. |
Hah, isn't it curious that many of us, Pokemon fans as we are, dislike reading fics about canon characters? That's pretty funny from my standpoint.
That said, I do agree to a certain extent. I don't believe any of my fics have ever had a canon character in anything vaguely approaching a leading role - with the notable exception of the as-yet-unpublished convalescence+convergence. That one's all about canon characters, with only two or three OCs lying around. But yes, I for one am sick of reading about Ash. The anime did all right by him, and any fic with him in it seems kind of superfluous. Pssh, maybe it's just me. But on the whole, you show me a fic with a main canon character - especially from the anime - and I'll show you the 'Next Thread' button. Gah. |
I really hate to find "I love you more than anything in the world." Written more than once or twice in any story.
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While I prefer reading a journey fics to review, I find that the only fics I read for pleasure are the ones from the anime with Ash as a main character. I did read all sorts of fanfics back in the day, but it was the ones that focused on the anime that made me come back for more. I have fond memories of such fics, which were mostly from Pokemon Tower (which I haven’t gone on in years).
Actually, to tell the truth, I don’t read Pokemon fanfiction for pleasure at all anymore. I’m not sure if it’s because I’m burned out or that I’m writing a Pokemon fic so that gives me my fix, but I can’t name one that I honestly followed. Well, except the Sun Soul on FF dot net, but I eventually ditched that because of the boring characters (though the world was definitely well thought out. Very realistic). |
That's how I am towards canon characters, at least Pokemon ones. The ones that I want to read about, no one ever writes about them. While the ones that everyone writes about, I can't stand. There's only so many times I can read about Red or Ash.
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Seriously though, I too seemed to not to enjoy reading Pokemon fics as I did before. Been in this fandom for many years and yeah, now these days not too many new and interesting stories out there. As for canon characters, I don't mind reading about them because I have read stories that had put a different spin on those characters. There might be some canon characters I'm more interested in reading than others, though. LOL, I don't think I hate anything I have seen in Pokemon fanfiction saved for repeated chosen one fics, angst/dark fics that aren't done well, and fics that are shippy/romance driven (funny enough, I'm writing a shippy fic for a different fandom >.<; ). However, as I mentioned before I'm just a bit tired of many stories more or else copying someone else's idea and not at least have a different take on that idea. |
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You sometimes can't help it if the characters don't have much canon info on them, leading much to fanon speculation. Try as I might though, sometimes fanon doesn't capture the very essence of said characters enough for me to consider them indistinguishable from their canon counterparts, so they just start to seem OOC to me. Also, not to mention newbie writers tend to use canon characters very frequently because they like to explore what-if scenarios. Incidentally, what-if scenarios often apply to newbie shipping stories too, so yeah... Quote:
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Actually - deviating slightly from the topic here - could we not put forward the notion that this apparent drought of quality fanfiction is the reason for the lack of activity here?
God, that sounds stupid when I say it like that. Duh, less fics equals less action, duh of course. But in all seriousness, every now and again someone comes along on a mission and yells '*****!' and suggests we do something to push the activity levels back to what they were in FF's heyday. I kinda think we of the old guard need to do something about that before we even think about making incentive programs or starting contests or whatever highfalutin ideas people are toting around. We kind of just need to sit down and a) grind out some fanfiction, taking pride in what we do and the forum we love and b) get some interesting discussions like this one flowing - again, because this is what we like to do and, goddammit, this is where we like to do it! |
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Also 'old guard' makes me think of Dumbledore's Army for some reason. |
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As for Misheard Whisper's comment over us trying to help out get this community gain some activity again, I agree pretty much everything. The only thing is bleh I can't seem think up any Pokemon plot bunnies. >.>; I have a couple story ideas I might want to try, but I need to sit down and plan a bit on them. Also there's real life stuff going on for me so I don't have too much time reviewing, but I'll try my best to keep up with a few fics here. |
If we want to up activity, reviewing, I think, is the most important thing. It doesn't matter if we write good stories if no one will bother to look at them. I guess we can do both at once, but it'll only work if this is a group effort. If activity starts to lower again, someone should start a new thread or at least do something to keep activity high.
On another note, I’ve started a new thread about what we love seeing in fanfiction. EDIT: My posts are being difficult and won't go into the default color most of the time, so I apologize for possible hard-to-read text. ;_; |
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I think a lot of the things I find a turn off in fiction have been stated already in this thread. Specifically unrealistic canon pairings, it annoys me how horrifically out of character they're forced to be. Or if an author creates a character that is basically the opposite-sex counterpart of whoever they're trying to pair them with. I don't want to read Paul and Paula's angsty angsty romance. One other personal dislike is original characters without much development of their background, specifically in pokemon fanfiction. Your generic trainer has left their hometown with starter in tow. Great. But what are their motivations? Something at least need to be said as to why they want to be a trainer. Even if you're trying to be 'mysterious' or give the impression your character is escaping from a hurtful past they'd rather forget about, I think there should at least be some allusion to this, that is then developed as we go on. |
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*raises hand* I'd like to point out the fact that there were two people referencing rebirth fics at the beginning of the thread, and one of them hates all rebirth fic not because of all the rip-offs of ALNM but instead because the overabundance of angst (A ridiculously angsty past for every character? Really?) coupled with the fact that they practically glamorize suicide, depression, and abuse makes her want to bludgeon people with burlap sacks full of kittens. I also found most of the cast in ALNM the kinds of characters I'd like to punch in the collective face for exactly this reason. But, you know. To each their own. I'm just saying that for me, ALNM is most certainly not an exception but more of a reason. Also, yes to activity, but because I'm immensely lazy as of late and because the last time I decided "OH HEY I'M GOING TO CONTRIBUTE A LOT OF IDEAS" turned out to be a bad idea, I'mma gonna sit back, nod, and agree with Dagzar. Problem with PC is that a lot of the time, it feels like a one-way street of authors just posting their fic and rarely getting feedback, so I know that some authors just don't feel like posting their work due to the lack of a guarantee that it'll be read and accepted. o hai mw so i herd u mentioned something about this on sppf to someone But the last time I said we should get our rears in gear and do something, that wound up being a great idea ("great" here meaning "a lot like plans that would land you in a jail in Mexico vomiting up mostly tequila"), so I'm shoving any action part onto someone else like Misheard while I play the crotchety old jerkass saying everything sucks. |
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Didn't we have a "Review Once a Day" challenge a while back? Maybe we could start up one of those again if enough people aren't too busy. There's a lot of fics that have been posted that need reviews. Even if the reviews are only a few sentences that point out a single mistake, they'd definitely be more helpful than nothing at all.
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Or that I'd go bi for New Zealanders. Quote:
But yeah, we should totally do another one if there's more than you and me interested in it. Yay topic derailing! \o/ Wait. |
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I would be interested in another reviewing challenge (see, I'm crazy XD; ), though it might depend what month it'll be in. I'm still up for a writing challenge since I want to write Pokemon fanfiction again. |
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Also, note to self: Lay off the angst; don't want my story to flop. But it's as you said, to each their own. I also can't agree more with how it seems that the reason for lack of activity is the lack of reviews. I know from experience that if I don't get any reviews or constructive feedback, I tend to lose interest in writing whatever it is I'm writing. I'm totally interested in trying to do a review a day thing; I've heard that reading and reviewing other stories can help improve writing skills of both the reviewer and the reviewed. |
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In short: I was put off by the way the fic handled suicide, and I don't find any part of it to be particularly deep because of that. I'm sorry, but it just reads like teen poetry to me -- like it's trying too hard to be deep, and as a result, it thinks that angst = depth. And the fact that it's about suicide and the fact that Angela reads just like a parody of an angst!Sue for those beginning chapters makes me feel like it's making light of the subject, rather than actually saying suicide is a bad idea. I know I can't speak for everyone, but it just felt preachy, over-the-top, and fake to me (what with angst everywhere) than something that set out to talk about issues as sensitive as that with any kind of seriousness. And yes, I have to apologize because I know you said it affected you greatly, but I really can't find a better way to put this. (And I've edited this post three times, too.) That fic just makes me angry for so many reasons. |
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I have been bullied, verbally and physically, but not to a very large extent; it didn't really carry past middle school, luckily. But I do know what it's like to rarely be included in things. Having moved around a lot, I had a hard time making a solid group of friends; it still shows a bit, because even though I have many friends through marching band, I'm still pretty detached. I can't complain, though. It could be much worse. In part, I agree that the beginning didn't handle depression and seperation all too well. By the end, though, I think the author had gotten much more experience and handled it a lot better. Although at the time I read the beginning, I was 15. So maybe that's why I liked it so much then and now; the beginning was more mid-teen orientated. Also, don't apologize, expressing your thoughts in a mannerly matter doesn't need an apology; I'm not offended. If anything, an opposing point of view helps me better understand my own point of view, as well as revise it a tad when the opposing view brings up a very valid point. I try to have a very open mind in hopes of understanding the views of everyone. For example, seeing how it didn't affect you as deeply as it did me lends me to think more about how it really affected me. Maybe that's a little convoluted, but it's my way of trying to reason with the world around me. If I let myself be offended by everyone who thinks differently than me, I'll end up bitter and probably alone. It also helps me improve my own ideas and thoughts so that I can write a more interesting story. You've given me an idea of what questions I should be asking myself as I write. I.E: Is this too depressing, or does the moment call for it? How realistic is this depiction of [insert concerning topic/issue here]? Have I spent too much time developing this character, or does he/she still need more development? Really, you don't have any need (in my eyes) to apologize; in fact, I should be thanking you. Wow, that was really off topic at the end there. Let's give a cheer for thinking in tangents! |
Hmm, my first real discussion here (I think). This should be interesting.
I can't be bothered to remember everything I've read in the thread, so I'll post everything that either annoys or bores me as well. I'm mostly a journey fic / backstory fic kinda guy, so most of the fics that I read and have opinions about will be of that nature. If there was any one thing that annoyed me the most about fics - and not just journey fics, the problem is in most places too - it would be that they move too fast. And I'm not talking with a fast pacing - I mean, moving quickly through the plot without really touching on anything. The whole "wake up, get a Pokémon from the professor" routine would be a lot more bearable (in my opinion, anyway) if people actually took the time to describe the inside, make the character do a few things inside, and actually shake things up a bit even within the office. Ditto with the battles. The thing that gets me secondly is grammar and spelling, of course. Not stuff like beginning a sentence with a conjunction or ending one with a preposition, but stuff like omitting articles and missing periods on every single sentence and BLEARGH. Nothing much else bothers me as a rule, really. That's not to say that I can't find something else that bothers me as well, but it'll usually be very specific to that story. I'm not a guy to pick on characterization much. But I really think that if people really sat down to actually make their writing flow well and flesh things out [not with overly flowery prose, that just clutters things up and makes the pacing even worse], we'd have much fewer of the Mary Sue tropes and bad characterization tendencies and such that we have now. And even if a Mary Sue did appear and make the story boring, at least it would be boring for that reason, and not just because the story is just a blur that spirals out of control. Quote:
*edit* Agh, apparently you guys had another one. In which case, I didn't get any :< |
Cookiecutter fics in general for me. Since I've recently been in the NxTouko craze, I've been reading a ton of fanfics about them, it's killer. It's either, N disappears, Touko becomes depressed, they meet and fall in love. Or it's N wins, and Touko must become his bride.
Mind you, I have a version of the latter one, but I'm making turn on a different path, leading to a different ending and a sequel, so I wouldn't exactly call it hypocritical. |
Yeah I have time to actually post something. :P
For me (like many others), I'm sort of bored with the whole journey fan fiction type of thing going on. I've noticed that a lot of them start off as a journey fan fiction, yet changes to something completely different as the story goes on. My question for that is, why not start there? I've seen people go about 20 to 30 chapters in, and the trainer is not even going through gyms anymore and the storyline had taken a completely different direction. If your story is that deep, don’t start with your trainer going to Professor whomever. It’s plenty ways to get there without going through the game mold of things happens after gyms. It's all about getting new and creative ideas. I think people underestimate the depth that this universe can have. They can branch out to something borderline original fiction if they wanted to, but still stay true to the fandom. I enjoy reading a fan fiction where the world is so drastically different that it could even attract people that aren't into the universe. The original trainer/coordinator things can get a bit overzealous. I'm not saying that there aren't any good ones out there, but it will be nice just to get away from them from time to time. The universe is too diverse not to try something different. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't seen a lot of ranger fan fictions out there. It has potential, but it is hardly tapped into. |
Horrible spelling and grammar along with overused plots are two huge annoyances for me.
I also stay away from stories focusing on Eevee and it's evolutions, especially Umbreon. |
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Honestly, I can get into journey fics if they can keep me interesting. If it meaning adapting game concepts and storylines, then the story should do it in an innovative way if possible but also make sure they don't deviate too much or stick to close to the original. In short: they should show variation from the others and deviate from the norm when nescessary.
Anyways, I hate it when stories stop part way through because the author didn't work the story out prior to writing. Especially when it was good so far. |
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What I don't like in stories is the overly-emotional (not just sentimental scenes) You can be upset without being annoying about it, near wrist slitting of angst (unless it is for humor). Even if the scene is particularly emotional, it's is meant to make the reader feel the emotion, not drown in it. It goes the same in the other direction as well. There are stories (not sure if they're on here but I know I've seen them a couple times somewhere) that are completely dead. The little voice in the back of my head sounds like it's reading a textbook. That makes me fall asleep or be very ticked off. Yes voice is a big thing on my part. So is bad writing but I'm picky about that so I will not go there. |
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^I think the real concern is whether the author knows where the story is heading or not.
Plus, I do think that it's important to start a journey fic with the Main character(s) getting their first Pokemon since it's better to have an origin from the get-go. However, it shouldn't just be so straight-forward as the Trainer getting his first Pokemon and Pokedex. Have something exciting happen like the evil team of the region attacking the lab for a reason that'll come into play in the future. Something like that. Just try and grab our interest with the first chapter and convince us that your fic is worth reading and following. That another thing that I hate: when writers go all gung-ho on starting a series that haven't thought out yet, resulting in major disappointments. |
I suppose that depends on the story itself tbh - some would be better not starting from the beginning if it's really not important to the story, and others would imo be quite fine with the whole get-first-Pokemon deal (although how that happens is another deal in itself).
I suppose a lot of stuff already said would be things I don't enjoy myself... although canon-characters being/not being in the story isnt a factor for me unless they are missing for no established reason (in the cases it would mak snse to have them) or if they don't feel right (they're OOC, etc). |
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That's why I don't like reading a lot of new trainer journey fics, since the author feels as if they must start with meeting the starting Pokemon. Then the fic might head down the path of the slow start, where nothing happens for several chapters as the trainer goes through the standard battling of the first wild Pokemon and all that. It's better to skip the generic beginning if it's necessary to do so. Tell the meeting of trainer and Pokemon through back story. Which is another thing I hate seeing: forced back story or *begin flashback* |
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About the journey fics that turn into something else as it goes along thing, I don't think the writers plan for something like that to happen. It doesn't matter what idea you have in the future for you fic, it's safe to say that it'll change as you go along. Maybe the writers just find their stories are focusing on something other than the badges or journey, and just decide to take it in that direction.
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It all depends on how people handle it. Sometimes it can be generic and other times it can be innovated and creative. It's not right to assume that some things are always bad when they can be good. |
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I'm not saying that all journey fics have bad beginnings. I'm just saying that when the author feels forced to begin their fic with the new trainer starting their journey instead of skipping it, then it's bad. Because that's not where the plot should begin. |
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I mean, the fanfic I'm planning out based of the Black & White games has the whole Trainer-getting-first-Pokemon beginning however the story really does start there and a lot of key events occur in the first two chapter that also carry on into the next two and so on. Without going into major spoilers, I start out with three Team Plasma members (called Knights in my fic) attacking the Pokemon lab of Nuvema Town as the three main characters fight them off with their Pokemon (this, in turn, gets the Professor to allow them to become Trainers). These three Knights are recurring characters, one of them being a relative of the main heroes. While this goes on, Zor (N) of Team Plasma steals a Pokedex and a Zorua (who plays a part in the fic later on) from the computer room of the lab. I can't say too much about chapters three and four but the main characters do make it to Accumula Town by the third chapter, Rezo (Ghetsis) makes his speach and the main heroine, Angelina (Hilda) battles with Zor (N), beginning their rivalry which will culminate in the fic's first arc's climax. The next few chapters, up to the first Gym battles, mostly focus on the main heroes and their Pokemon so we can get to know them better. In other words, I'm doing that whole "generic" beginning but I'm really starting the plot there. If I were to skip it all and show it in a flashback, I wouldn't like it and neither would the readers. Not that skipping said beginning can't ever work. I'm just saying that not skipping it can work when the author puts some thought into it and plans things out. |
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Not every author fully plans out their story. Sometimes, fully planning out the story still means that the beginning happens after the starting Pokemon is received. What works for you as a writer does not hold true for every other writer out there. Yes, if the story should begin with the starter Pokemon event, then start it there. But if it starts days/weeks/months after that, no matter how much planning the author puts into it, then the story should begin where the plot begins. |
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You know, matt, since you've joined the SPPf and PC writing communities, you've said a lot of things that have outright bewildered me. The things you've said on this thread, though? Bewilder me more than anything else. How exactly does "not starting off with the same beginning as 90% of all journey fics" = "author didn't plan"? Because I'm seriously outright confused here, and I'd like to know how this thread of logic works. I mean, according to my logic, which I like to think is pretty sound logic personally, starting off with a cookie-cutter beginning (with the trainer getting their Pokémon, even if you throw in ~*~EXPLOSIONS~*~ somewhere along the line) would betray the fact that you're not only not that creative but also leaning on someone else's plans as a crutch. As in, it doesn't say to me that you planned anything. It just says to me that you're relying on what everyone else is doing, so I have absolutely no idea whether or not you actually did plan anything in advance. Really, going against convention by starting the story sometime later on down the road shows me that you did do a lot of planning because you'd have to know why you're starting at that particular point, where in the trainer's career this might be, and what needs to come after it. In other words, you're relying more on a plot you've created yourself, rather than some path someone else has carved for you. Basically, the reliance on your own work to start things off tells me that you've at least planned the beginning by yourself (rather than stuck to the generic skeleton of "character wakes up, says farewell to their parents, and goes to get a starter Pokémon from Professor Tree), so in my book, that means you're very likely to be capable of planning things that happen after that. Starting off with a generic beginning just tells me you can read. But then again, not every writer is the same. I've read fics where the author starts off with the skeleton of the generic beginning, but actually, they planned everything out from start to finish. I've also read fics where the author starts off with a trainer who's already gotten their starter, but they're making crap up as they go along. I can't honestly say that one tells me that the author actually planned their fic in advance -- just that one type of author makes it clear that they're capable of doing it, and even then, being capable is not the same as having actually done it, if that makes sense. So, to add to this, let me throw in one other point: I've also read all kinds of fics, both planned and not so much, that were abandoned three chapters in. That's what I really wanted to reply to, actually: your comment that an abandoned fic is the result of someone not planning enough. That's not exactly true. An abandoned fic can happen for an entire variety of reasons. Sometimes, an author might plan so much that they just lose interest in wanting to put the story into words (because they already know everything about how it's going to happen). Other times, the author just doesn't have time to write fic. There's even other times when the author has started getting published, so they can't write fic anymore. It's not just because they don't plan enough, and in fact, that particular reason is the one I see the least often as a reviewer pretty much everywhere. In fact, if anyone's interested, the one I see the most often is, "This story is seriously a bunch of crap because people pointed out plot holes all over the place, so I don't want to have anything to do with it anymore." That doesn't necessarily mean that it's underplanned. But as for the trainer thing, no, it's not important to every story. It's only important to the stories that actually need to start off that way. Just as every film of a certain genre doesn't necessarily start the same way, no two fics need to have beginnings that are exactly alike. The point of a journey fic is that the trainer goes on a journey, but the definition of what a journey is tends to be looser. Sure, it could be a standard badge quest, but so long as that quest has an end and a point to it, where it begins isn't always set in stone. (I've read some pretty good trainer fics that follow trainers who were formerly champions on badge quests. Unfortunately, I can't think of the name of one at the moment, but I assure you that they do in fact exist... as weak in terms of proof as that might be.) Just as Emerson once likened life to a journey and not a destination, the entire point of a journey is not the two points at the end and beginning of the line. It's about everything that happens in between those two points, so what you do at Point A and Point B is less relevant comparatively. Sure, it's important in that you need a place to start and end your story (obviously), but because the journey itself and what your characters learn along the way take precedence, your Points A and B should morph to fit what you're trying to say between them. In other words, like the others have said, if you start off with awesome things happening when your character gets a starter but then follow up with absolutely nothing happening for several chapters until your character earns his/her third badge (and note that this is a general "you" and that I have read and understood what you plan to do with your own story, but your story isn't everyone's story), Point A is going to feel like it's tacked on, first off. Second, your reader is going to be disappointed by the lack of anything happening for several chapters. You'll need to grab their attention and hold it, so in that case, having Point A be your character getting a starter isn't going to work. Not to mention you run at a risk of being written off as just another generic trainer fic, which is also not good advertisement. Just like not all films of a certain genre necessarily have to start basically the exact same way (and it still will be exactly the same as every other fic at its heart, even if you add in ~*~EXPLOSIONS~*~), not all fics of a certain genre have to, either. And now, Jax is going back into hiatus mode. You're welcome. |
To tell the truth, I do like it when the story starts out with trainers getting their starters. It doesn’t necessarily have to be from a lab or go in a cookie-cutter way, but there’s just something about a journey fic that starts off like that, that appeals to me. Maybe it’s nostalgia, but it’s a classic, even though writers should really be more original. Besides, people who write journey fics are rarely writing for the plot. They’re concern is the characters and the journey itself, and what’s more appropriate than starting something like that out from when the journey begins?
I know doing things like that is terrible from a story-perspective, but… I like it. *shrugs* |
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So, the real point is that it doesn't matter how you start a story so long as it makes sense to a reader. It's just that there's a lot of people who agree that it is a cliché to start off with the generic skeleton of trainer-gets-starter, and really, you'd use a bit more creativity to start it any other way. I'd hate to put it like that, but if you're not basically doing what everyone else is doing, you're more likely doing your own thing and creating a story as close to from scratch as one can get for the genre. So, yeah, there's that. Tiny pinch more of creativity, which in my personal book means that I'm more likely looking at someone who thinks outside of the box and is at least capable of writing their own story. This doesn't, of course, mean that every single journey fic I've read and actually liked starts off in the middle of a journey. Example: Ultimatum. But of course, Ultimatum's choice for a beginning makes sense for it, so it works. But back to the point, basically, I wasn't talking about preferences. I was just stating that I have no idea how matt could say (as if it's a fact, not a personal preference) that the starter scene is important for journey fics in general regardless of what their actual plots are, that starting it any other way means that the author didn't plan their fic all the way through, and that an abandoned fic automatically means that the author didn't plan past the part where they abandoned their work. The last point especially, really. As for the point about where a journey begins, that was one of the points I was trying to make: not every journey has to begin the same way. It depends on one's definition of "journey," and even with the journey fic genre, that tends to be debatable. If it's a badge quest, then the definition is "trainer goes on a quest to earn badges." There's nothing in there that has to say that the trainer needs to start at a professor's laboratory where they'll be selecting their first Pokémon. If it's also a Chosen One fic, then that all depends on the plot and what it means to be a Chosen One. In that case, the Chosen One's journey can begin months before he or she even selects a Pokémon. Yes, a journey fic should start at the beginning (quite obviously), but if we consider the idea that a journey fic is just about everything that happens between Points A and B, then there's nothing in the definition that says it absolutely has to begin with a character choosing a starter. Moreover, I'd hate to sound snarky, but... Dagzar? The journey is the plot of a journey fic. You can't really have the character go out on a massive journey away from home and not have a plot to go along with it. I mean, if your character manages to reach an epiphany by sitting around and doing nothing but talking on a couch with a bunch of other characters, then okay, maybe you don't have a plot. But if you have your character go out on a quest away from home that drives their character development and gives them a sense of purpose, then you have a plot, and you're writing based on it, even if you're not thinking, "Oh hey! I'm writing based on my plot!" Even Mentor has a plot, and whether you're conscious of it or not, your characters' actions and therefore development are revolving around it. How can I say that? Because your characters aren't sitting on a couch reenacting Waiting for Godot. (And some critics even say Waiting for Godot has a plot, so maybe that's not a great analogy.) |
Yeah, I get what you're saying. Maybe I shouldn't have used the word plot. I tend to think of character-driven and plot-driven stories as different creatures, and even if a story is character-driven, they do, of course, have plots.
Sorry. <_< |
@Jax - I didn't really mean that a fic being abandoned meant that its author didn't plan it out. Hell, I once wrote a fic that I stopped due to lack of interest too. I guess that other reason slipped my mind. Sorry, I made you go all wall-of-text on me.
And yes, I know that starting with the Trainer getting his first Pokemon isn't really required if the author wants to do something different. It's their fic, not mine and I'm not the boss of them. I was just saying that, in my OPINION, that I tend to like stories that start from the very beginning (that being the Trainer getting his fist Pokemon) without giving too much away. It's just MY preference. And I didn't say that it meant the author didn't plan (at least, I do recall). If an author did that, then it means that the author either wrote a backstory that's to be later revealed or something else. As for nothing happening until the first Gym, this can be solved with extra stories before the Gym like more captures, character development or even character introductions. Hell, they can even debut the Gym Leader(s) before the Trainer makes it to their Gym. Of course, the stories have hold the reader's interest. Look, I'm sorry if I offended you or made you mad in anyway. I don't really think that my preferences are facts or rules that others should abide by. I really need to work on my wording. |
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As I've mentioned in an earlier post as well, there's a variety of reasons why authors abandon fics, and most of them center around the idea that they do plan things out but realize that it's not something they're interested in writing or that people aren't particularly fond of what they're working on. In fact, I have to say I've never actually seen an author abandon a fic completely because they didn't plan things out all the way. So, yeah, I'm still not sure where you're getting the part that anyone abandons fic because they don't plan things out, let alone that this is the primary reason why badfic exists. Even then, there's no proper way to tell one of the pantsers (as MW put it) from one of the planners unless the writer in question isn't particularly great at the whole writing business. So, you can't really say that a story's faults are for certain because the author didn't think things through and not just because the author him/herself isn't skilled enough to pull it off or just because the idea itself wouldn't work no matter how much planning you put into it. (There is such a thing as an idea that just won't fit a story.) Quote:
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Ultimatum is actually the only fic where I've seen this kind of thing happen and pulled off. The main character's journey starts off normally, but as soon as he hits the first route out of town, he witnesses Team Rocket stealing a Pokémon. Does he proceed on a badge quest? Not immediately, no. What does he do instead? Break into a Team Rocket base. The plot takes off from there. In other words, if you're going to have plot-like things happen in the first chapter, you'd better be prepared to follow that instead of the generic new trainer skeleton. However, not every story is about that kind of quest, and sometimes, the character's actual quest should begin after he earns his third badge. If that's the case, then no, you can't connect the starter scene with anything after the third badge if you have plot happen at Point A and then nothing related to that plot until Point B. In other words, plots need to have a sense of coherency. You can't just throw in random other plots if something major happens between Point A and Point B. There needs to be something to connect Point A and Point B, or it'll feel like everything from Point A to Point B is just tacked on as an afterthought. Quote:
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Okay, I admit that my previous statement came off as if I was being factual than saying them as opinions. I'm truly sorry! I take it all back! I thought I was stating my opinions as, well, opinions. I didn't realize that my wording was different than what I was going for.
Look, I never meant to upset anyone at all. I just wanted to say what I personally think is right or wrong. I don't really have a good way with words like other people here so I slip up time and again. I can understand how some authors make up stuff as they go along with their fanfics or other kinds of stories and manage to entertain their readers. Akira Toriyama, creator of Dragon Ball (Z), did this often from what I've seen and read and I still like his work (despite some flaws here and there). Hell, many cartoons do this yet still entertain me (the good ones, that is). To me, however, stories impress me the most when they're planned out and show that they aren't making stuff up as they go along. So, as if it's not clear enough, I apologize wholeheartedly for my previous statements, Jax. I'm willing to learn from my mistakes and make up for them in the future. |
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So, yeah, don't worry about it. |
On Fanfiction, there's a trend in the Cartoon X-Overs section to adapt a movie or any kind of story and use characters from different animated shows to. This is called a fanmake and my Pokemon journey fics in the past were fanmakes as well. But let's not get into the latter.
Of course, these fanmakes tend to have common elements from one another and needless to say, they bother me. Let me name a few: 1. The narration comes off as more of a screenplay than a novelization. It describes camera panning, effects and the main character's POV (which should never ever mix with a third person narration). Hell, it seems like a hybrid of the two styles. This bothers me a lot as I prefer novel-style and I find it interesting how you can adapt a movie or TV show's into your own novelized version. 2. There are musical number in fic without music to hear. This is a big problem for me since in literature, the musical numbers seem to be forced in. 3. Most fanmakes are copied from the source material down to dialogue especially when the author is incredibly lazy. I don't know about you but I do expect some variation in an adaptation or a fan remake, you know? |
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What I hate even more though? *begin flashback-within-the-flashback* I've seen it multiple times, and once I even saw. *begin flashback-flashback-flashback* This forum needs an emoticon for primal rage. Beyond that, I really despise stories that ignore basic biology... Yeah, you know exactly what I'm talking about. In Naruto fanfiction, Naruto and Hinata romance. Not because I hate that pairing, because really, the romance path people take is not my primary reason for reading any story. No, the reason I hate it is because it's usually handled with all the skill and subtlety of a brick thrown at the window, even if they are otherwise excellent writers. I also hate haremfics of any kind, in any genre. ...that's about it, actually. |
It may just be me, but when I read a story that involes a couple, I hate when every word out of their mouth when speaking to each other is "baby", "sexy" or "sugarpants" etc when referring to each other. Once in a while is okay but I hate when they overdo it. Overly loveydovey blah.
I like Dialga and Palkia as a couple, but I wouldn't have Dialga call Palkia "sexy" or "baby" in every sentence he says to her. lol |
Well, this is probably a little narrow, but I dislike most Ferrishweelshipping fics. They all portray N as Prince Sexy and ignore oh I don't know, most of his canon personality. They often tend to portray Hilda as a self-insert, too.
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When people have horrible grammar in their stories >_<
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Sorry. Had to say it. I mean, it's totally understandable (given the road and pothole analogy that I mentioned in another post), but for me, grammar isn't so much a trigger as it is the attitude about it. If an author says that grammar isn't necessary ("BECAUSE IT'S FANFICTION SO IM DOIN THIS AS A HOBBIE" or "OMG I DIDNT REALIZE THIS WAS ENGLISH CLASS" or "it's for ~artistic purposes~"), then yes, I'll judge you pretty harshly. However, if English isn't your first language or if you genuinely didn't know that a comma can't be used to do that (or insert your favorite trick grammatical rule here), then I'm a bit more forgiving so long as you're willing to learn how things in this language actually work. Sometimes, you might have an awesome story from a truly creative writer who just doesn't know any better, so it's not entirely fair to judge them right off the bat until you know what kind of author's at the keyboard. |
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