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-   -   Remakes that aren't so much remakes? (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=265417)

zidiane October 22nd, 2011 7:16 PM

Remakes that aren't so much remakes?
 
Hey, just messing with my LeafGreen right now, and wondered if that will be the end for the Kanto region. I don't think they'd make another remake of the game... but, what I thought, they could reimagine the region and the story. I'm not saying redesign everything, but have a Kanto from 10, 20, even 30 years in the future. Different Gym Leaders for the most part, some new Elite Four (Possibly kid from Gold or Red as the fourth member instead of Lance), maybe Gary gives you your starter pokemon because he took over when Oak dies, new towns could be built, an actual story inserted somewhere, Pallet Town could become a tourist attraction because of how famous Red got, Pokemon from the other regions migrate or have a population because of breeders who bring them over, you can access Johto from there (No need for Kanto by itself, then Johto and Kanto).

I really like the new gen games, with brand new stuff, but I'll always have a soft spot for Kanto, and this is just an idea I had for the after (Yes, the after).

bwburke94 October 27th, 2011 2:09 PM

A couple comments:

1. Don't call him Gary, a lot of the people here would flame you for that.
2. We already got a sequel. It's called Johto.
3. Pallet Town's already a tourist attraction from the looks of it.

The 100 Mega Shock October 27th, 2011 2:14 PM

That'd be a pretty cool way to give Kanto a fresh new coat of paint, although I'd be a bit surprised if they'd do it after Black and White were near-reboots of the game series.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwburke94
1. Don't call him Gary, a lot of the people here would flame you for that.

Who honestly cares?

Quote:

2. We already got a sequel. It's called Johto.
There's never been a rule against multiple sequels, especially when Gold and Silver's Kanto was so cut down from what it could've been.

mikey October 27th, 2011 2:58 PM

No No No. I am so sick of Kanto. We have enough Kanto. We have R/B/Y, G/S/C, HG/SS, thats enough.

zidiane October 27th, 2011 2:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The 100 Mega Shock (Post 6906386)
That'd be a pretty cool way to give Kanto a fresh new coat of paint, although I'd be a bit surprised if they'd do it after Black and White were near-reboots of the game series.



Who honestly cares?



There's never been a rule against multiple sequels, especially when Gold and Silver's Kanto was so cut down from what it could've been.

You understand. You really do.

And I wasn't talking about having this game be the next thing that comes out or whatever, I meant like, after they're down another two or three Gens (If Pokemon doesn't die by then (Not that I'm expecting it to)), If they wanted a new game for the new system with old pokemon (That might not be available due to the same issues with RBYGSC and the advanced Gen, and so forth), They could recreate the old regions without making us go through the same motions, fighting your same rival, the same Brock, the same Misty, Lt. Surge, Erika, and so on. Same place, different people, plot, pokes, and experience.

mikey October 27th, 2011 3:05 PM

I know what your saying, and yes that would be awesome, but it wont happen. The games have been following the same pattern forever, its not gona change.

Oryx October 27th, 2011 3:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toshiro. (Post 6906442)
No No No. I am so sick of Kanto. We have enough Kanto. We have R/B/Y, G/S/C, HG/SS, thats enough.

I agree with this. Not saying it would never happen, but I would never root for it to happen because I'm sick of it. I'd rather they put extra effort into a new region with everything unique and different instead of the same region that they came up with to begin with. I'm not a big nostalgia freak though, despite playing since the beginning, so I guess my opinion would be different from those that have a nostalgic love for Kanto.

Eagledelt October 27th, 2011 3:15 PM

People always with the idea of remaking Kanto... HOENN my friends, HOENN =]

blue October 27th, 2011 3:21 PM

Hoenn hasn't been remade one yet Kanto has had four appearences...

zidiane October 27th, 2011 3:24 PM

We would all love them to come up with new, unique, interesting, and awesome things every game. But, coming up with new things is hard (Hence the remakes in the first place), All I'm saying is that if they can't come up with anything, so they want to remake the games again from the start, I'd like it if they remade them like this instead of just advancing the graphics, and adding a few moves.

KoolKat vs. Lucas October 27th, 2011 3:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suicune™ (Post 6906475)
Hoenn hasn't been remade one yet Kanto has had four appearences...

I'm with you. I sold my GBA on Ebay and I have a DSiXL so i have no compatibility with Sapphire anymore. I'm still waiting. But, I could do with a nostalgic-feeling Kanto remake but only if they made it with GBC colors and Gen 5 overworld and Battle. In otherwords, a tri-color overworlds, 5 color battle but with every special (3-D Effects and such) from B/W/(G?) Wouldn't that be EPIC?

zidiane October 27th, 2011 3:50 PM

Oh yeah, I forgot to say something. I use Kanto references when I reference anything because I'm most familiar with that region, But I'm not saying if they want to use regions a third time (Preferably on their second time for better experiences) they have to re-use Kanto for the first (Or any) game. They could start out in Hoenn, ending with you taking a boat out to a brand new land (Like Johto with Kanto, but not having the lands be directly connected). This whole thing is just my suggestion for having remakes that aren't so much remakes, just reusing the region.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoolKat vs. Lucas (Post 6906511)
I'm with you. I sold my GBA on Ebay and I have a DSiXL so i have no compatibility with Sapphire anymore. I'm still waiting. But, I could do with a nostalgic-feeling Kanto remake but only if they made it with GBC colors and Gen 5 overworld and Battle. In otherwords, a tri-color overworlds, 5 color battle but with every special (3-D Effects and such) from B/W/(G?) Wouldn't that be EPIC?

No. No it wouldn't. That's a really, really, really bad idea. IMHTGO.

Oryx October 27th, 2011 4:09 PM

I don't think there will ever be a point where they stopped coming up with new ideas, that would be the point that they would get a new development team. As we can see with even the hacks section here on PC, there are plenty of people with plenty of ideas and my guess is that they'd run out of interest in the series far before they'd run out of things to make games based on.

I'm also not sure that they made the remakes because they're running out of ideas. The reasoning I've always heard is they're there so you can get all of the Pokemon in one game through various transfers. There's also the matter of it being just cheaper to not have to make a new storyline and such I'm assuming, which wouldn't really transfer over to a game where they used the same region but changed everything about it.

blue October 27th, 2011 4:32 PM

It's just taking a remake of a remake, what's the point?

Perriechu October 27th, 2011 5:51 PM

I actually wouldn't mind a Kanto remake. I mean, who wouldn't want to see Kanto in the graphics we have now? The Johto remakes didn't showcase Kanto as well as a remake specifically for Kanto could. I'm not saying 'hurr hurr remake it rn' because I want to see the Hoenn remakes confirmed before another pointless Spin-off comes out. I would like to see it maybe a couple of years, as the last Kanto game, though. :3c

zidiane October 27th, 2011 6:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suicune™ (Post 6906560)
It's just taking a remake of a remake, what's the point?

Money, dear boy... Money.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toujours (Post 6906536)
I don't think there will ever be a point where they stopped coming up with new ideas, that would be the point that they would get a new development team. As we can see with even the hacks section here on PC, there are plenty of people with plenty of ideas and my guess is that they'd run out of interest in the series far before they'd run out of things to make games based on.

I'm also not sure that they made the remakes because they're running out of ideas. The reasoning I've always heard is they're there so you can get all of the Pokemon in one game through various transfers. There's also the matter of it being just cheaper to not have to make a new storyline and such I'm assuming, which wouldn't really transfer over to a game where they used the same region but changed everything about it.

Ideas aren't the problem, you can find those anywhere. They need 100-150 new pokemon with every game. Why do you think there are more spin-offs than main titles?

Oryx October 27th, 2011 6:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zidiane (Post 6906677)
Ideas aren't the problem, you can find those anywhere. They need 100-150 new pokemon with every game. Why do you think there are more spin-offs than main titles?

Sugimori has been quoted as saying that they won't run out of ideas for new Pokemon. (Source).

There are more spin-offs because multiple companies develop them so they can do them at once without taking away from the quality of them. Mystery Dungeon, Ranger, Rumble Blast, and Trozei were all made by different companies.

zidiane October 27th, 2011 7:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toujours (Post 6906692)
Sugimori has been quoted as saying that they won't run out of ideas for new Pokemon.

There are more spin-offs because multiple companies develop them so they can do them at once without taking away from the quality of them. Mystery Dungeon, Ranger, Rumble Blast, and Trozei were all made by different companies.

Well, if I made Pokemon and we were running out of Pokemon, I wouldn't tell anybody. And if asked, I'd lie and stall untill we had more. Because otherwise, people see what you do for new stuff as desperate. And I wasn't saying they're out of ideas, just that popping out 150 new pokemon every other year isn't easy, and would be even harder if both remakes so far were brand new games instead.

It doesn't matter that they didn't make the game directly, it isn't uncommon for a company to outsource for it's games. So... it doesn't matter which company made the games, because they can't just decide they want to make a pokemon game. Game Freak needs to be completly involved.

Oryx October 27th, 2011 8:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zidiane (Post 6906756)
Well, if I made Pokemon and we were running out of Pokemon, I wouldn't tell anybody. And if asked, I'd lie and stall untill we had more. Because otherwise, people see what you do for new stuff as desperate. And I wasn't saying they're out of ideas, just that popping out 150 new pokemon every other year isn't easy, and would be even harder if both remakes so far were brand new games instead.

It doesn't matter that they didn't make the game directly, it isn't uncommon for a company to outsource for it's games. So... it doesn't matter which company made the games, because they can't just decide they want to make a pokemon game. Game Freak needs to be completly involved.

If it's developed by another company, Game Freak isn't as involved than if they were developing it themselves. Otherwise, they might as well just put their name on it. The point is that more spin-offs come out because Game Freak doesn't have to work as hard on them, it has nothing to with them running out of ideas. Besides, spin-offs have been created since the first generation. Do you really think they were out of ideas in 1998? Edit: I just did the numbers and there were more spin-offs than main games during the second generation.

And why would you assume they're lying? The only basis you have for that is your own random assumptions about the game and your wish for more Kanto. It's not unreasonable to trust Sugimori over random PC user #345 when it comes to their opinion on Pokemon, in fact it's logical. Besides, think of it this way - I can think up 10-15 Pokemon ideas in 24 hours off the top of my head. Most fans can. Considering people are hired in job environments, it's only reasonable to assume that if someone hired to make up Pokemon had no more ideas for Pokemon, another person would be hired to make up Pokemon.

Your ideas about how the franchise is going are all based around the assumption that "they're running out of ideas" is true. You can't prove they're running out of ideas if you've already assumed that they are, that's begging the question. I've shown you that there are plenty of other reasons why they would do what you seem to think proves it.

Anyway I think a third game in the same region is unrealistic if only because their release schedule is pretty strenuous as it is and it won't get less so. Next gen, remake of two generations ago, next gen, remake, next gen, remake. It's not like they'll run out of things to remake since they're doing one per generation.

sherreamethyst October 27th, 2011 8:45 PM

As much as I love Kanto, I agree with most people that a remake would just be tiring. It's already been remade 4 times! I think if any game should be remade it should be Hoenn. Hoenn, imo, is a little boring and I found it too easy to get the first 3 badges(replayed the game a month ago and got first 3 badges in about 4 hours). But once you get to Flannery I found it her a little difficult. Anyways, I think they should remake Hoenn rather than Kanto again for the 5th time.

Deliciousfruit233 October 27th, 2011 10:34 PM

NO. We don't need another Kanto. 4 times is enough, already. We need a remake of Hoenn.

zidiane October 28th, 2011 8:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toujours (Post 6906773)


If it's developed by another company, Game Freak isn't as involved than if they were developing it themselves. Otherwise, they might as well just put their name on it. The point is that more spin-offs come out because Game Freak doesn't have to work as hard on them, it has nothing to with them running out of ideas. Besides, spin-offs have been created since the first generation. Do you really think they were out of ideas in 1998? Edit: I just did the numbers and there were more spin-offs than main games during the second generation.

And why would you assume they're lying? The only basis you have for that is your own random assumptions about the game and your wish for more Kanto. It's not unreasonable to trust Sugimori over random PC user #345 when it comes to their opinion on Pokemon, in fact it's logical. Besides, think of it this way - I can think up 10-15 Pokemon ideas in 24 hours off the top of my head. Most fans can. Considering people are hired in job environments, it's only reasonable to assume that if someone hired to make up Pokemon had no more ideas for Pokemon, another person would be hired to make up Pokemon.

Your ideas about how the franchise is going are all based around the assumption that "they're running out of ideas" is true. You can't prove they're running out of ideas if you've already assumed that they are, that's begging the question. I've shown you that there are plenty of other reasons why they would do what you seem to think proves it.

Anyway I think a third game in the same region is unrealistic if only because their release schedule is pretty strenuous as it is and it won't get less so. Next gen, remake of two generations ago, next gen, remake, next gen, remake. It's not like they'll run out of things to remake since they're doing one per generation.

I was writing off of a device that only allowed me so much space per post, including the whole quote of you. I had to say as much as possible with as little words as I could. I have more space now. So... on with the show.

Game Freak has to be directly involved in the creation of the game. Not developing it, but saying "We want this game made." The only two reasons to make a spin-off game are 1: making as much money as possible without presenting anything new, and 2: occupying their fans time while they try to come up with something substantial. That is the main reason they put out two copy's of the same game, and then a third, all with only subtle differences to story and game-play. If it was really all that easy to come up with main titles, then they would only need one game a generation, with all of the Pokemon available in-game. That's the reason for the Dream World, Wi-Fi and Real Life events, and such. Anything to make you occupied with the same exact game for longer. Spin-offs, mainly the fact that there are so many of them, imply that Game Freak wants you to be distracted from wanting more from their main games.

I'm not saying dude was lying (a result of my limited type space). All I said was that if I had a company with so many fans, and we WERE in trouble, I wouldn't do/say anything to suggest we were in trouble. It would make more people less interested in the product, that's just human psychology. No one wants to be on a sinking ship. And, let me say this again, I am not suggesting they're in trouble, just that if they were in trouble, they wouldn't announce it and we wouldn't know until the company was a step away from shutting down.

Most fans of anything can make things. Megaman fans make Robot Masters all the time, for example. But, they can't just make random Pokemon and throw them in the game. Neither of us have been in the development process of new Pokemon, so we can't say, but I'm pretty sure there is a lot more that goes into making a Pokemon than what we do. All the pokemon have to be a sure thing. They have to test their guys, make sure they'll be liked by children, make sure none of them are offensive (Jynx). That's one of the reasons all the pokemon are kinda the same. All the Pikachu clones, the early bird pokemon, the early bug pokemon, all the legendary pokemon who are pretty much just palette swaps of each other (the dogs, the birds, the regis, the lake pokemon, the cloud gods), the small pokemon they make every game (mew, celebi, jirachi, victini, the other one). They try not to change the formula because making brand new stuff is hard. So, I'm sure out of your 15 pokemon a day, you'd have a shiny's chance of getting one approved.

Refer back to the third block of text.

So, if the system after the 3ds comes out, you don't think there's a chance of them wanting to get us back to Kanto/Johto? Because at that point, those Gens will be, like, 8-10 years old. We haven't had enough time to say that they won't remake something a third time. We've only just had our second remade region.

Oryx October 28th, 2011 8:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zidiane (Post 6907322)
I was writing off of a device that only allowed me so much space per post, including the whole quote of you. I had to say as much as possible with as little words as I could. I have more space now. So... on with the show.

Game Freak has to be directly involved in the creation of the game. Not developing it, but saying "We want this game made." The only two reasons to make a spin-off game are 1: making as much money as possible without presenting anything new, and 2: occupying their fans time while they try to come up with something substantial. That is the main reason they put out two copy's of the same game, and then a third, all with only subtle differences to story and game-play. If it was really all that easy to come up with main titles, then they would only need one game a generation, with all of the Pokemon available in-game. That's the reason for the Dream World, Wi-Fi and Real Life events, and such. Anything to make you occupied with the same exact game for longer. Spin-offs, mainly the fact that there are so many of them, imply that Game Freak wants you to be distracted from wanting more from their main games.

Wanting to spread out one game doesn't necessarily imply they're out of ideas, just that it's more money with less work. Which wouldn't apply in Kanto outside of the Pokemon if they made a region far in the future since they'd have to redesign everything anyway.

Quote:

I'm not saying dude was lying (a result of my limited type space). All I said was that if I had a company with so many fans, and we WERE in trouble, I wouldn't do/say anything to suggest we were in trouble. It would make more people less interested in the product, that's just human psychology. No one wants to be on a sinking ship. And, let me say this again, I am not suggesting they're in trouble, just that if they were in trouble, they wouldn't announce it and we wouldn't know until the company was a step away from shutting down.

Most fans of anything can make things. Megaman fans make Robot Masters all the time, for example. But, they can't just make random Pokemon and throw them in the game. Neither of us have been in the development process of new Pokemon, so we can't say, but I'm pretty sure there is a lot more that goes into making a Pokemon than what we do. All the pokemon have to be a sure thing. They have to test their guys, make sure they'll be liked by children, make sure none of them are offensive (Jynx). That's one of the reasons all the pokemon are kinda the same. All the Pikachu clones, the early bird pokemon, the early bug pokemon, all the legendary pokemon who are pretty much just palette swaps of each other (the dogs, the birds, the regis, the lake pokemon, the cloud gods), the small pokemon they make every game (mew, celebi, jirachi, victini, the other one). They try not to change the formula because making brand new stuff is hard. So, I'm sure out of your 15 pokemon a day, you'd have a shiny's chance of getting one approved.
You're right. We can't say. So neither of us can use whether they're running out of Pokemon as an argument for either side because we can't say whether or not they actually are.

Quote:

Refer back to the third block of text.

So, if the system after the 3ds comes out, you don't think there's a chance of them wanting to get us back to Kanto/Johto? Because at that point, those Gens will be, like, 8-10 years old. We haven't had enough time to say that they won't remake something a third time. We've only just had our second remade region.
I don't think so, because of their schedule, like I said. Say Gen 7 was on the 4DSiXL or whatever new system they have out. Then people would be ready for the Gen 5 remake because they'd all be tired of the regular DS graphics of Black and White and want the reboot into new graphics and such. They don't have a break, they're rushing games as it is to get them in the timeline they have, let alone time to stop making new regions and remaking the ones that don't have remakes to make a 5th Kanto or a 3rd Johto.

Harmonie October 28th, 2011 8:48 AM

If they make another sequel, Leaf better get recognition this time. Red was only the Indigo Plateu champion if he was who you played. Just sayin'.

Anyway, I would actually like to see another game take place in the future of an old one. I thought that G/S/C taking place a few years after R/B/Y was neat. When Ruby went back to square one and pretended that nothing happened beforehand, I didn't enjoy it anywhere near as much.

Oak dying might be a bit much, though. He could just be retired or something.

The 100 Mega Shock October 28th, 2011 9:02 AM

Wow, that was a massive mess that came from even mentioning the words "Kanto" and "remake".

The original idea was hardly even a remake - it was more like a greatly expanded sequel that happens to be set in Kanto. Do we really need so much backlash against even the fleeting concept of a "kanto remake"?

Hell this is probably "Gen VI / VII" material considering the amount of work involved. Other RPG series can revisit old lands in new game, y'know.


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