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The Problem With OC
First I'd like to state that I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes, especially not LiveWire's, and I commend his work in trying to clean up and straighten out Other Chat. However I think there's a real problem with the forum, and it's been around since I've joined PC. Other Chat is one forum that encompasses any and all discussion that doesn't pertain to Pokemon, or user-generated material. That leaves a ton of topics.
Instead of trying to cut down on redundancy threads and the sheer amount of topics in the forum itself by locking them and warning members, I think the threads need to be categorized in terms of topics. I've noticed a few dominating topics in the forum and suggest we break OC into numerous subforums to regulate the flow of topics and separate them. The subforums I've considered are "American Politics & Issues," "International Politics & Issues," "LGBT Discussion" and "Philosophical Discussion." So, just to put things into perspective, Zet's "lol u mad republicans?" thread or Igiko's Web discussions on abortion thread would fit into American Politics & Issues. Suicune™'s "Huge Eruption on the way?" or LiveWire's Global Warming thread would be placed into International Politics & Issues. LGBT Discussion would be home to the Jamie Hubley thread as well as the late Tim Horton's thread. Philosophical Discussion would encompass anything from the "Your View of God" thread by dinosaurodon to Toujours' new "Will Humans Evolve Further?" thread. And the way I see it, anything that doesn't quite fit under any of these categories can stay within Other Chat's general chat forum, which would be home to our beloved DCC and, for example, FreakyLocz's "Woman Sues Cap'n Crunch" thread. While I'm aware that this would be a radical expansion of our humble OC forum, consider how many subforums some of the most frequented boards on PC have. Emulation is a powerhouse with eight subforums to itself. Second in line are a draw between Game Development, and the Art Gallery with four subforums to themselves. With my suggestion to Other Chat, it would have a total of five forums, including Celebrations. I don't think that's much out of the norm. If there are any that disagree with my suggested expansion of Other Chat, please do not hesitate to voice your opinion. I realize I'm stepping into Administrative decisions here but I figured I'd pitch a proposition. |
I just wanted to voice my agreement on this. Yeah, it'd be a lot of subforums, but it wouldn't be much different than it is now, in terms of threads and activity. It'd just be cleaner and more organized, the way I see it. That and it might help define the line of what goes in OVP and what goes in OC...even the difference between C&T and C&M and OC too, since those seem to be getting mixed up, due to certain news about the former two I mentioned. Point is, I agree with this.
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I like this idea but tbh I wouldn't think an entire forum just for LGBT discussion would be warranted. While PC does have a rather large LGBT community, if you look back on the threads involving it in OC, even including locked threads there are 5-6 on the first two pages. Considering each page is 50 threads, I'm back to the beginning of September on last post and not even 1/10 of the way through one page of a forum.
Similarly, there are 20-25 (depending on how you count some of the threads) threads on the first two pages related to American politics. I would combine the international one with the American one to make one larger one, because while political threads do make up a large portion of OC, when you actually crunch the numbers it's not too huge. I always thought there should just be a "recent news discussion" subforum tbh. :x |
Then perhaps instead of LGBT, there can be the subforums "Politics", "Social Issues", and "Philosophical", and the adorable Celebrations ofc. Social Issues would be the news threads on the things like a major suicide because of x thing that happened to this person, exotic animals on the loose in Ohio, restaurants turning so and so down because of x thing they are/did. Things like that that are getting cracked down on so hard lately.
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I'm also gonna say that I agree with this. I really like OC but I find it kinda difficult to post in sometimes, mainly because of how there are threads for everything everywhere. It'd be really nice to just settle into a single subforum, in this case it'd probably be Philosophical Discussion for me, rather than digging through everything. I also think that, as this would set out some really clear boundaries for where to post stuff, it could generate more activity since people would be more confident posting threads probably. I think places like Emulation, for example, have shown that having a large number of subforums for fairly specific things can definitely work.
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Or we could just let OC be a really active general discussion forum like it's meant to be rather than splitting it off into a bunch of inactive subforums?
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I'd think all the threads about LGBT issues and such would go under "Social issues" anyway, if it didn't go under "Political issues".
Now, to be the little raincloud, I don't believe that OC is quite that big yet. Surely, OC has flourished under Live, I give that much. But I do not believe it has grown so miserably furry, and such sub-forums would simply serve to confuse newcomers. K.I.S.S. most definitely applies here. Furthermore, I believe that if OC needs any new subforum it should simply be a 'Debates' forum. For all of the above threads which tend to get hot and bothered with opinions, and leave news-like threads, like "Woman sues because crunch berries aren't real..." in OC unless they get serious discussion. THEN promote them to Debate section. There's a real distinction between the type of discussion one of those news-y threads and a thread specifically started to debate a topic, and such. The other threads which don't get as heated can stay out in OC itself. If further classification of debate threads is needed, then do so by adding subforums within it. It's doable. |
Hm great idea as much as I'm not sure how the subforums will work, but it seems pretty nice and that'll it work out great.
Hm better yet, to still clean it up but keep it active we can have the.. forgot, lol. like: [News] Thread name [Politics] Thread name [Debate] Thread name [LGBT] Thread name |
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I'd be perfectly fine with bringing some more concrete definition to OC. Too vague, too many possibilities.
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Yes, perhaps a dedicated LGBT subforum is a little too specific. Social Issues sounds much better in my opinion. And a dedicated Politics subforum instead of split between countries. I just suggested an American Politics subforum because most of our users are from the USA. That's the power of brainstorming!
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I agree with all this. I think it's a really good idea. Whenever I feel like posting in Other Chat in some fun random thread (which is often) I have to root through a myriad of political threads that seem to fill up the entire page. That's probably the only reason I post there almost none of the time rather than all of the time. Well, maybe not the only reason... |
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When that happens OC will go down the tubes and it's activity will go with it. Besides, OC is anything but flooded as it is now, it's thriving beautifully and you don't have to look too hard for any active thread worth talking about. There aren't 50 pages of threads that have been posted in by someone in the last month like there commonly is in emulation or sections like it. The index of OC in it's default view, which prunes threads old enough to get closed if you post in anyway, is only two pages in length. I'm sorry if you use an alternate view and got an inflated count, but that's how it is. OC is thriving, not bursting at the seams and it hardly needs additional subforums. We should give Live a chance to show his skills as a moderator before we go about trying to "Help" him too much. He's kind of prideful anyway, so implying he needs help doesn't help your position much anyway...as anyone who knows or has dealt with him knows he can occasionally be quite headstrong and/or independent. |
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It may seem simple right now for you, but there have been multiple people posting here saying that the way OC is now is keeping them from posting and having more concrete sections would make them post in OC more. In this case, it's a matter of having just one big section seems simple to you, but to everyone else who's agreeing in this thread it's much simpler to understand when it's more specific to different issues. |
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And for the record, I did ask for help. |
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Nope, creating subforums will only ease a poster's intention. The only way activity can be diminished is by banning certain thread topics. If I were to be suggesting that we ban all political discussion in OC, THAT would be suggesting to lower OC's activity. Creating subforums will only help someone find a certain board they want to post in. I know a lot of people bring their philosophical thoughts to PC to share and discuss, however to find those types of threads you have to scroll through a ton of other topics that you just aren't interested in seeing. What bad could having subforums dedicated to Politics, Social Issues and Philosophical Discussions do? You're dreaming if you think it'll deaden the forum. I can't imagine it would do that in any type of scenario. The only way it would happen is if the whole forum are a bunch of sheep and hesitate on posting threads in the new subforums due to lack of threads. I mean, really. Also, don't speak as if you know or are LiveWire. Who do you think you are. |
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Personally I don't think prevention is key at this point at all. OC is not suffering. Live does a pretty good job. Like I said in my initial post, if we do add any subforums, why not just lump all the debate topics into one big "Debate" subforum? Let the debating folks of OC worry about figuring out which thread is where. I personally don't want to have to browse through 3-4 different forums to cover the various topics I'm interested in...it's too much of a hassle for a small handful of threads. I could stomach ONE subforum more in OC to segregate more serious debate-style topics from the lighter-hearted ones though. I never really said we should ban any topics in OC, so don't go putting words or arguments in my mouth either. Quote:
I'm sorry but I really DON'T think this sort of thing is necessary at all. You all can just SCROLL and LIVE WITH IT. Because seriously, scrolling? What kind of argument is that? |
Hmm... I actually think a division like this would be helpful. Speaking as someone who doesn't much post in OC, I find that part of it is just that... everything is all over the place, like people have been saying. If it were a bit more organized, perhaps I could find something I would know about or like to post in more easily? And I can't speak for anyone else, but I believe there are others who feel the same. And if you had even ten more people with that mindset, you'd see an increase in activity overall, would you not? Maybe each section individually would look a bit dead sometimes, but as a whole they'd be booming.
> skim'd thread, formulated opinion, here you go. sorry if it's been said lol |
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I quite like this idea. I'm not much of an OC poster (besides the DCC) myself, but I do think it would make the forums much cleaner and more organized. Plus, it might be more welcoming to other members who might not like to partake in the kinds of serious debates currently found in OC, if the main forum were for all the actual miscellaneous topics. I feel like some people might hesitate to post in OC since the forum's dominated by debates and such, and not everyone's into that. And like everyone has said before, it would be much easier for people to find what they want to discuss instead of wading through all sorts of really diverse topics.
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The reason why we would not lump everything into a Debate subforum is because it would be a failed attempt at categorizing threads in OC. Just about any thread in OC that isn't a news thread, is a topic up for debate. The goal here is to categorize the debates: Social issues will be debated in the Social Issues subforum; Politics and political standings will be debated in the Politics subforum; and Philosophy will be debated in the Philosophical Discussion subforum. And that's just it! You won't have to scroll through 3 to 4 forums! Because you'll know what you're interested in at the time. If you want to look up on any political issues that are going about PC, hey, they're all neatly packed together in a little subforum. If you're looking for some philosophical enlightenment from the wise members on PC, bam, there's a forum dedicated to it. Also, for this argument I could very well use what you used against me: You can just SCROLL and LIVE WITH IT. I never said you said that. Well Pachy, it's fine if they're sheep. Because even if they are, those of us who are not sheep will keep these forums alive. And the sheep will follow our lead. Foolproof. I'm sorry but I DON'T think it has to be necessary to be considered. It seriously takes 3 clicks of a button for this to happen. It costs 0 dollars to do. I don't see what the huge issue is here, apart from people wanting to keep OC the way it is for the sake of keeping the status quo. |
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The way I see it, the endgoal of each section of a forum is to be a flourishing, popularly-visited place where people enjoy themselves talking about one thing or another, with the thingoranother varying depending on the section. If you need to cater a little to the laziness of a certain flock of sheep to get more widespread enjoyment of a forum section, you should do that instead of telling the sheep that their behaviours are irrational, am I wrong? What goal does doing what the people want accomplish? More popularity. What goal does it accomplish to tell the people they shouldn't want what they want? None. EDIT: Ninja'd in every way possible. D: |
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I throw that argument in your faces now, because they threw it in mine back then. :3 (See quote) It's a two way argument really. Well played Penatrait. Well played. |
Guys, is changing one or two things in one area of a forum something worth arguing over?
Not really. >__> Anyhoooo, something I thought of is this question: If everything posted in OC can fit into one of the suggested sub-forums, then what's left for the general OC area outside of said sub-forums? I was also going to say that there's a few threads for each sub-forum in there right now, so if any current threads are moved then each sub-forum would have two or three threads at least. I dunno if OC is quite active enough to be split up into so many areas, though I could be wrong. I need to spend more time in there. xD; & If sub-forums are created, someone said their weren't enough LGBT threads created to warrant there own area, but also maybe if they were given their own area then people would be more likely to make them. Same could be said for topics of other sub-forums. I still don't think OC should be so split up, but I suppose it would look more tidy, and it might help the activity. Sorry if I sound like a broken record of anyone else's posts, just throwing my two cents out there. |
I went a tad farther back than the one-month limit but my own estimation of where threads would be moved it would be something like:
Politics - 14 Social Issues - 38 Philosophy - 10 General - 12 The social issues ones were most of the news ones that I ran across though, some of them might belong in the general forum just as much. |
I like this idea. It's something that should be given a try before people jump on it saying it's unneeded and won't help. There's no wait to know that until it's given a chance, so I don't see why ~*!*~some~*!*~ people are saying "no nono no nonono ono n" :3c
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I kinda skipped the posts half way down so forgive me if this has been asked/mentioned/whatever. Question, didn't we have a RSS feeds forum where all news got put into? I think a forum just for news articles to discuss could work on its own tbh, considering there's so much news, but that could really fit into C&M anyway so. But for politics, idk, I like the idea of a general politics debate forum but it'd need a lot of supervision.
While the other subforums mentioned aren't bad, I think leaving everything general except politics and news could work out, since I dunno, I consider philosophy as something under a general blanket and I kinda consider the purpose of OC to be for social issues somewhat. :x |
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News threads, politics, social issues, whatever, I don't want one particular aspect to dominate the entire section. I sure as hell know most of you don't enjoy sifting through a dozen or more threads on politics, understandably so. That if anything, is what pushes people away and makes it "scary".
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This might be an appropriate time to suggest this, since I've been thinking about it for quite a while.
I've often thought that Post Your Problems, rather than just being one stickied thread, would be better served as a subforum. I think people would be more comfortable posting their problems if each problem got its own thread. I think it'd make people feel like they actually had people's attention and would make them more likely to seek advice from the community. It would also make me, personally, more likely to post advice if I could feel like I was heard. This is meant to be a community, so it'd be good to have a larger place where people can go and help each other, rather than just one thread. It's just an idea though, it's no big deal if people don't like it lol |
We've had this debate before (LOL) Just make a separate Politics/Debate/Controversy sub forum and everyone would stop complaining and know what they're getting into.
Still for SOME REASON ever since I became a member here, this issue (LOL) has been quite controversial (XD) to older members/staff >_> |
Why don't we just make a single politics and news forum and move all those threads there, and focus Other Chat on more... <insert a good word to describe what Live_Wire and the regulars want out of Other Chat>? That way, there's a place to go specifically for people interested in politics and news articles, and there's a place to go for intellectual discussion on philosophy, etc.? It's not like people can use the excuse "oh well, we don't have enough to warrant a forum!" There's more than enough, and it's been stated time and time again that it's not necessary nor wanted.
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Still it would help my life be a lot easier to know where to go to for discussions. But yeah in BMGf we've made our Politics sub-forum invite only to those we know could actually stay level headed in a deep discussion. :/ |
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It's always seemed to me that that thread was just disorganised. I don't mean like incredibly disorganised, but rather the natural level of disorganisation you get from putting several questions and several answers all in one in no particular order. This would make it easier for people to find the answers posted to their problems and easier to distinguish problems that haven't been "solved" yet. |
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I feel like once I heard the staff give a good reason as to why they never delete threads, but I don't remember what this was. Anyway, I'm thinking if that subforum were made, maybe it would be customised in a way that it would be different from other sections, but I don't know exactly how... |
A couple of years back before the lovely Love_Wire was moderator, there were a ton of news threads and pointless ones at that. I created a joint news thread and it just didn't take off. Maybe that was because people didn't think it was a good idea, or they just wanted to post the stupid news threads. |
I wish we had a system for Indexing.
Or start threads like: (TYPE) TOPIC Still international threads are free to be made. But people don't make them I guess. xD |
I agree that OC definitely needs at least some form of 'definition', as opposed to the hodgepodge of threads it is now. However, as the cliche goes, Rome wasn't built in a day. As a trial run/compromise, how about making one sub-forum for one of the proposed topics? I guess "Politics" would be the best one, off the top of my head, as there's loads of political threads.
If that has the effect of loosening up OC while being a vibrant sub-forum in its own right, that could clear the way for other sub-forums as suggested by Penatrait and others in this thread. If it has the opposite effect - it becomes a desolate subforum whilst syphoning off activity from the main OC forum - then it wouldn't be too hard to re-combine the forums and forget the whole sorry mess ever happened. [/two pennies] |
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I like the idea of it being a separate forum, so that Other Chat can truly be other chat. I feel that we have enough serious discussions on PC that kind of makes it a category of its own. |
I'll go back and find the details from when I brought this up in the lounge, but if I remember correctly, Other Chat becomes:
Debates & Discussions Laid back, "Other Chatish" threads belong in Discussions, along with the DCC, Post your pictures, etc. Post Your problems, as well as the threads concerning social issues, politics, religion and philosophical debates belonging in, you guessed it, Debates. (Now just because it's in debates, that doesn't mean every topic needs to get heated and nasty). And to further clarify, I would utilize some form of prefix tags as well.. |
For a small change that doesn't involve adding subforums maybe just a single [Debate] prefix tag would help let people know what kind of thread they're getting into.
I've thought that there could be a division (either tags, a subforum, or a whole new forum) for the serious business threads (politics, social issues, etc.) and lighter chat (like the DCC and news stories about kittens doing cute things), but honestly I don't see a big problem with OC aside from less activity compared to other areas. If everyone agrees that it needs a change then I'd just like something done - throw things out there and see what sticks. We won't know until we try. If we fail like some people predict then, well, we fail and go back to how things are. No harm done, right? |
The forum is simply disorganized more than anything. Slightly outdated. There's not a need for a sub-forum, but more of a reason for prefixes as Scarf suggested. I don't see a big problem with it either, it's not the section that is the issue, but the posts and threads made by some of the memberbase, so I think that there needs to be more of an outline on what constitutes as disrespectful and what people should avoid doing. Which is seen in the rules, but perhaps a more hands on approach needs to be taken by Live, and/or the higher staff.
In terms of a forum title change, I do agree that Other Chat is a little too laid back, Even something such as "Other Chat & Discussions" would both clarify the more laid back approach to certain threads as well as the more serious discussions and debates without going too far from the original name that people are used to. I actually think "Debates & Discussions" isn't accurate enough, it suggests a 100% serious board where laid back conversation won't be found. Where it is quite the opposite given the fact that the most popular thread being the DCC has been running for 5+ years. The addition of prefixes is something I feel would be necessary at this stage, due to the fact there's quite a diversity in the type of thread that is posted there. Quote:
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Other Chat ForumDebate SubforumPolitics What do you think of this senator? Philosophical Is incest okay? [(Well personally idk if this would be philosophical or social)] Social Should Gingers have rights? Discussion SubforumThe Daily Chit-Chat! (Sticky) News Woman sues Build-a-Bear for low-quality stuffing Philosophical How does weather affect your behaviour? Okay, those are bad / not serious examples but I want to know if I'm getting the picture. |
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However, I don't think it's much of a stretch to say that I have the most hands-on approach of the current Moderators, which usually gets me labeled as a Hardass and/or mean by those who draw my ire. But obviously the current system could use more revamping and clarification - more must be done. Quote:
Essentially, yes. |
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I rather prefer Live's rendition of how the forum should be split. |
The only appropriate thing to do in my mind is to filter out all the heated discussions.
Other Chat is a forum that has become somewhere where it's hard for new members to really get into. Every thread seems to go from a discussion to a small debate or a large-scale debate. Some people just like discussions without it turning into a debate. So a solution to that would be to filter the debates into a sub-forum, and leave behind the remains of a free-for-all forum that Other Chat has traditionally been and focus on keeping those threads on their own, without becoming a debate. Right now, it seems like Other Chat is pretty much a Debates & Discussions forum, focusing on news and politics and religion and the like, with debates being the primary thread type. The atmosphere of the forum is really tense when I go there, I find, which discourages most members from posting. |
I like the idea of just one "Debates" subforum.
But I also like the idea of tags better, especially if the h-staff is worried about killing the activity of the main OC. |
I always saw prefixes as a way of making subforums for things that don't have enough difference to get subforums in most places. For example, the Trade Corner has B/W and Fourth Gen prefixes. I always assumed it was because there aren't enough of one or the other (probably 4th gen) to make their own subforum, but it should be noted that they're different. Same with the FF section, with Pokemon and Other, I always thought it was just because there wasn't enough of either one to warrant their own section so they used prefixes instead.
I like the layout that Live/Ineffable came up with, I can see how using "Discussions" could get slightly confusing though, since not everyone thinks of discussions as lighthearted so they may see the name and shy away. However, it does have a nice ring to it and the description of the section could let people know that lighthearted discussion is allowed and encouraged. |
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I really don't see a need for sub-forums, like some have already said prefixes pretty much do it for at least me. PC is big enough as is. Seeing as how many categories/forums it holds already. But in all that's just my opinion. Sometimes I get overwhelmed seeing a lot of forums (I don't really hold interest in Pokémon sections anymore). I mean sure it isn't hard to collapse the categories but I'm not the kind of person to save my browser data. xD;
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I disagree with those who say that having a Debate/News subforum is something we don't need.
First of all, splitting the 2 types of discussion into a main and sub forum respectively would allow new members to come in without being "terrorized" by all the heated debates that come up generally. Secondly, the casual discussions would be relegated as the MAIN forum thereby isolating the stuff people here have an adversity to in the SUB forum no? Finally activity would increase overall due to the fact that the split would get new people into the Discussions side of the Forum while the more established members can handle the Debates Sub-Forum. Plus the Prefix system would be seriously awesome IMO. It would allow things to be clarified so people will know what they're going into. |
I think the only problem is that a lot of members make discussion threads into debate threads, and there's a very, very fine line between a discussion and a debate that even I don't really understand. I was sitting here thinking "Well, if we do split the debates into a sub-forum, what kinds of threads will be left behind?" Because then I'd just think the main Other Chat forum would blur the lines even more than they already are with the difference between it and the Other Voting Polls forum.
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A lot of people, veterans and higher ups, ever since I joined kept on saying that debates go on Other Chat everytime the issue raised by this thread is brought up so I am not surprised that it IS debates that pop up in there and take up a lot of the discussion. |
Well, Other Voting Polls encourages very minimal discussion, but most of them are post-and-go threads. I made an outline back when I modded the forum for a more detailed description on the types of threads that belong in Other Voting Polls.
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So the discussion aspect for the stuff posted in OVP goes to OC then? :U
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Uhhh, I don't think that's a very solid solution. :(
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I think the whole "post and go" thing actually well describes the difference between debate and discussion. In a discussion you post what you think of it and then you're done. Maybe someone will reply to it saying "oh well that's interesting my idea was this:" but mostly you don't have to think about the thread after that. Whereas in a debate you're more likely to constantly check the thread and keep debating until one of three things happen:
1.) The argument is concluded because an agreement has been come to. 2.) You get a little too frustrated or bored with it. 3.) The whole thing gets too heated and is forcibly stopped. In OVP, rarely ever do people directly reply to each other's posts. They simply answer the question straight out without much extra comment. Non-debate OC discussions should be more intricate but still with less interaction than in debates. EDIT: Lol nvm that was wrong. I shouldn't post when I have a headache. |
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It is a fine line but I believe that stuff such as "Celebrity Mishaps", "Woman Sues Cap'n Crunch", "9-year-old daughter designated driver", "Every Day I'm Shuffling", "Harry Potter Actor...", "Iowa Couple...", "Time Travel", "Samsung Seeks...", "11-year-old banned...", "iPods in Class", "Police called over...", "Pet Discussion", "Bull Sharks...", "Food Thread", and "That thing..." would all stay in the main forum, which, as 15 of the 41 threads on the first page, would mean that the majority would go into the Debates subforum, but it wouldn't be split entirely unevenly. There are some I was iffy about, but my criteria was "knowing PC, will this turn into something heated?" That was why I was more tempted to put the LGBT issues into Discussions than Debates - those threads, while heavy, tend to not get heated whatsoever because everyone is pretty much on one side of the discussion agreeing with each other. Imo, it would obviously require a bit more moderating because a discussion could become a debate, but Live has always been on top of that and since he said he did ask for help, if there was another mod I'm sure they'd be on top of it too. So if something is posted in the discussion forum and it starts to get heated, it could easily be moved into the debate subforum and they could continue. |
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What Live said holds true. Discussions that get escalated or heated can be warned and moved to Debates subforum too if people get passionate about it.
Additionally, there can be a different ruleset for the debates sub-forum which makes it easier for Live to more quickly act on and discourage trolling or stubborn argumentative folks who clog the debates up until it ignites up like so much tinder. |
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But If Hstaff backs that, I'm game. If the answer is a bigger crackdown, then I'm game. But I need to know that you've got me when that thread here about how horrible I am shows up. |
Well it's either that or move a discussion that got heated to the debate forum, and give a warning to everyone.
The Debate forum would have stricter rules that would logically support infractions quickly. EDIT: Let's not try to make Live seem tougher than he has to be. That only boosts the intimidation factor that OC has, and we're trying to DIMINISH IT. |
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And yes, making me out to be the mean OC moderator wouldn't exactly make things better. |
One of the great upsides to this is that you can probably fairly easily be seen as not-so-strict outside of debates because it won't need as much bad-cop moderating :3 That's why the debates are good as a sub-forum; on the surface it's nice to see a forum that's open and easy to get into, and then people only go to look if they WANT to debate, not because they tried to make a lighthearted post in a heavy thread and got into one on accident or something, lol.
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I mean, as long as these people understand why Debates would need a tighter grip on it. >_> |
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I have no problem with this. We can have a few subforums for the types of threads that dominate OC.
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The actual dedication on the part of people other than Live would just be to actually create the forum, right? I'm not sure what you mean by not needing that kind of dedication. |
I don't see the point in re-organizing OC, it's already simple to navigate.
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Zet, Didn't I just make the same argument before and get eaten alive by page 2?
Seriously, see for yourself. And one extra subforum for more heated topics wouldn't hurt, as it could be more strictly moderated and rules more strictly enforced there without threatening the welcoming atmosphere of OC as a whole. It's like having the courtyard where moderators don't need to do much and having the 'Roman Forum' where the Mod's word is Law and to defy it is death. XD People who don't like the idea of 'death on defiance' can steer clear of that section and never worry about it. |
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People who like Pokemon already go to the Pokemon side of PC. Plus all the "Other" threads are already in the bottom half of the page. It's not as if those who go to PC for Pokemon related stuff will all of a sudden focus on going on Other Chat just because of a reorganization. xD And mods for each section are kinda independent already, so it's not as if we're taking Pokemon mods and putting them to the Other Forums to "shift" dedication. xP |
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How about you actually come up with an argument against changing OC that doesn't boil down to "No, I don't want to" |
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The reason we're focusing on Other Chat is because clearly people feel here needs to be some work put into bringing it up to date, the Pokemon forums don't need to the same work by the looks of it. So unless you had some other meaning, I can't agree that there's no point in putting dedication into non-pokemon related sections, they're just as important. |
I don't know I actually like the idea. It would clear it up and put everything on its place a bit more. And I do think that OC is like any other section at PC, It's GOOD that there is one which covers different things than Pokémon and I find it equally important.
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This isn't about dedication, this is about your own personal stubbornness. |
My concern is if this is an issue with the forum itself or the members of the forum. Is it a problem in the way the forum is built that causes these issues to occur, or is it because the members make them occur? Thread prefixes may fix this issue very easily. A thread prefix for debates, a thread prefix for discussions. At the very least, it'll help us identify the problem. If people start debating in a thread that has a discussion prefix, the problem is clear and we can deal with it accordingly. If that doesn't occur, and this still goes on, then the problem isn't with the members, but with the forum itself - and we might have to look into restructuring it.
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But above all, people need to know the difference between argument and debate. |
Regarding prefixes though, I've seen in other sections prefixes being used incorrectly and stuff, and while it didn't really matter in those forums, in OC, using the wrong prefix completely changes the gist of a thread, and might not be easily noticed it as a mistake.
I'm not saying their shouldn't be prefixes, I like the idea more than subforums, but just an idea for thought. Also, I'm sure a whole lot of people might not notice prefixes they can change and leave them blank, which won't help a whole lot easier. I didn't think OC really needed this change, but I guess it would make it clearer and more organised. Then again, and like everyone else has said, really it comes down to Live. |
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As far as prefixes, I really don't feel like that accomplishes as much as an actual subforum for more serious discussions. There will still be that tense atmosphere in OC, to begin with. Part of the point of the subforum was to make the main forum more open and fun to post in, and less of "only come to OC if you want to debate people". Prefixes also don't allow Live to put harsher rules on debates as easily, as that could easily confuse people if it was separate rules for separate prefixes, especially when a thread has no prefix at all. It also doesn't streamline as much as subforums would except for the people that are looking for both casual and serious discussion at once, which is most likely in the minority compared to people that are either looking for a serious topic or looking to just casually post.
Maybe I'm missing something though. What's the inherent value in prefixes that make them a better solution than a subforum? |
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And I also agree with that, which is probably why I'm not quite the big fan of OC myself. Certainly think subforums is the way to go for it, although how many/what exactly beyond one for debates (which I most certainly think is doable) I'm not sure what I think should be the case tbh.
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I like the prefix ideas but my only problem with it is simply that as previously mentioned, they can be made superfluous and relatively useless when you get a lot of newbs who don't know they're supposed to tag the thread with some prefix. Naturally Live can edit those to a prefix he sees fit but eh. If nobody uses the prefixes then they're doing no good.
So I'm still all for the subforum. That way if someone forgets a prefix, all they did was forget to classify what type of debate it was and that's far less damaging in my eyes. |
Basically the way I see it is if we're going so far as to make different rules for different prefixes, then that should be a sign that it's too complicated for prefixes, especially since you can have no prefix. What rule would that fall under? Would Live have to judge all the ones without a prefix and add one based on the first post? Or would there just be a set of rules for threads with no prefix? I just think it's kind of silly when a subforum does the same thing better.
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If it helps me out, at this point, I'd willingly go and manually edit [Debate] & [Discussion] tags into the title's of the first 2 pages of active threads, and add them for all new subsequent ones.
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That may be useful in the interim while we press for a subforum Live_Wire.
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Haha, is this like OC martial law until h-staff decides whether or not to add a subforum or prefixes?
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That aside, 1 sub forum should deal with most of the issues. Plus general tags/Prefixes for specific topics. In BMGf we use "RIP, Science, Diplomacy, Sports, History, Disaster, War, and Secession" (LOL) for the prefix options. You guys could just add more Prefix' if more general topics need to be addressed. That system I outlined should take care of the reason why people want multiple sub forums eh? Plus it incorporates all the ideas brought up so far. 8D |
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Also, this isn't dead yet. |
Could we just maybe have a subforum for politics and law-stuff? There's a lot of stuff that involves American politics/ events that as a member from outside the states, I don't care much for.
News INCLUDING America and ALSO general news articles/discussions can stay on the main page as I am sure that everyone wants to know what news is going on in the world.. but for more political/controversial threads maybe put them somewhere different? News and general offtopic chat (IE food thread and a thread about outer space etc) IMO acts as a casual section which would be the main section.. whereas politics gets really in-depth and you gotta know what's actually going on with em to be involved in that thread.. and could be put as a subforum for not as generalized discussion. Just a suggestion *shrug* |
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