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-   -   5th Gen Why do you think Black and White has recieved so many bad remarks? (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=284536)

AxeyWaxyWoo July 17th, 2012 5:43 AM

I bought Black and White when they came out, and I will admit, at first I didn't like majority of the designs. I think at they just looked 'strange' to me because I wasn't used to seeing them pop up in the wild. XD

But they have grown on me and I can't wait to play Black and White 2. :D

Though I've seen hate from people who haven't actually even played BW.
Like, they have already decided they don't like it when they haven't gave it a chance.
That annoys me, lol. :)

Black and White 2 = <3 :P

Xander Olivieri July 17th, 2012 6:12 AM

Honestly other that here in general I have not seen any real "Bad" reviews of the games. Majority of the complaints I've ever found were here, and maybe 1 or two elsewhere but other than that, its been nothing but praise or indifference.

For me there is nothing wrong with the games. I don't get why so many gripe about them. I've been with the series since the US got them, so I've been with it almost since its birth. I love the route that things are going with the games.

Spinosaurus July 17th, 2012 7:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XanderO (Post 7257717)
Honestly other that here in general I have not seen any real "Bad" reviews of the games. Majority of the complaints I've ever found were here, and maybe 1 or two elsewhere but other than that, its been nothing but praise or indifference.

For me there is nothing wrong with the games. I don't get why so many gripe about them. I've been with the series since the US got them, so I've been with it almost since its birth. I love the route that things are going with the games.

That's strange, as it's the opposite from what I have seen. This is the only place where I have actually seen praise for the game, whereas in real life and several places I've seen nothing but negative opinions for the most part.

ESPECIALLY real life. None of my friends, some who are past huge Pokemon fans, liked the game, even after playing it. They beat it, but generally their responses were very underwhelming, with "I beat it..I guess. meh" or "I didn't like it, huge disappointment." I even know people who never played Pokemon tried it and their response were "what the hell. people actually like THIS?". Of course I could ask them what they don't like about it, but I let it go, since they don't really care enough anymore.

I've seen some praises for the game online, but overall it was mostly negative criticism. (By the way, they're not Pokemon sites or forums.) What I've seen:
-Horrible Pokemon (probably the nostalgic people)
-Horrible region
-Bad, niche story.
-The worst evil team, and N is stupid.
-Post-game is awful.
-Doesn't feel like a Pokemon game when beating it. (You don't really fight the champion on
-Easiest in the series*
-Boring and just not memorable.
-Bad design decision.

Basically all the problems I've mentioned on my previous post and the tiring statements towards the newer Pokemon.

*This is actually true. This is the only Pokemon game where I haven't used any items in battle except against Ghetsis, and it was also the fastest I beat.
Generally, Pokemon games are hard towards kids. My younger cousins, who are big time Pokemon fans, generally have problems in these games and refer to me for help. This is the only game where they didn't need me at all and beat it in TWO DAYS. (usually takes them months)

This game isn't exactly well liked by a lot of competitive players either. This generation is considered the worst by many.


I bet if B/W had Looker though everyone would love B/W. It worked with Platinum!

Cyclone July 17th, 2012 8:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spinosaurus (Post 7257838)
I bet if B/W had Looker though everyone would love B/W. It worked with Platinum!

Uh...B/W DOES have Looker. He appears after you beat the E4, when you end up with the National Dex. Afterwards, when speaking to the sages in their scattered spots post-Ghetsis, he shows up to arrest them.

Unless you mean his involvement in the maingame. I think he's fine where he is.

Cyclone

Xander Olivieri July 17th, 2012 8:10 AM

LOL Boring and not Memorable yet they complain that much about it? I can guarantee that they'll remember Unova if they hate it that much.

As for Post Game. Red/Blue had less Post game than B/W does. All you get is 1 extra cave and Mewtwo.

G/S/C has the biggest Post game allowing you to go back and battle Kanto Gym Leaders and Red (which honestly doesn't have a story so its still fairly short)

R/S No Post game at all except Battle Tower and Contests.

D/P Battle Island place with three new Exploration areas and Battle Tower.

B/W 3 new Cities, Battle subway, Giant Chasm, and Place where Landurus is..Oh and Abyssal Ruins.

B/W has more after game stuff than the previous Main series titles before their Thirds came out. So compared to those B/W has the most After Game events.

Team Plasma is like way better than Aqua/Magma. Not as grand as Galactic and not as mean as Rocket, but Plasma is far from the worse Evil Team. Now if you are like me and don't even Qualify Aqua/Magma as evil, then ya I can see it being true.

You have to beat the story before you get to fight the Champion. That's how it has been in ALL Pokemon games. You beat the story AFTER the E4 is the only difference with B/W cause normally you beat the story before the 8th Badge. Story ends when you beat the Bad Guy Team.


Not liked by Competitive players, and yet the competitive play was changed drastically by B/W. Its way harder to battle competitively than it was in the past and a good number of B/W Pokemon appear way more often.

As for easiest, I disagree on a personal level cause this is the first Pokemon game that I did not beat within a 30 hour mark. I don't usually count Grinding which takes 2-3 hours on all the previous games, while B/W it takes me 1 to 2 hours of straight grinding to get to levels I like.

I've never struggled as much against an entire region of Gyms as I did on this game and I've never lost to the E4 before B/W I had to change my team 4 times before I got the appropriate team balance for them. All in all this was the hardest Pokemon Game I've ever played.

Honestly the ones complaining are prolly just butthurt that they had trouble with the game and don't want to admit it. Kinda like that friend that everyone has that says stories he wants others to hear about how he broke up with his girlfriend cause she was too clingly/needy/whiny. Always bragging about how many girls he beds and stuff like that. Someone that just plays it up for attention.

Locally for me no one even touches the Gen 4 games anymore. We are all just focuses on Gen 5. Only complaint my friends have about Gen 5 was lack of Move tutor options.

Cyclone July 17th, 2012 8:50 AM

Someone else mentioned the fact that you do not become Champion until the Champion is actually beaten (i.e., Alder). Therefore, with this being the first game in the series where you do not actually battle the true Champion the first time through (N does, then you beat N, but you have yet to fight Alder), the events from Routes 11-15 cannot be considered "post-game" as you still have to prepare to fight the true Champion. Once you fight the Champion and defeat him, THEN starts the post-game...and sadly, there isn't really anything to do at that time.

Cyclone

Xander Olivieri July 17th, 2012 9:06 AM

That's not true. Story ends with N and after that you get Credits so yes, refighting the E4 and Champion are the Post Game events. Once you get the Credit roll, anything you do after that is Post Game.


(Though technically you never become Champion even after beating the old Champion cause every time you fight him, Alder is still the Champion. Same with Lance, Blue, Wallace, Steven, and Cynthia.)

Cyclone July 17th, 2012 9:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XanderO (Post 7257923)
(Though technically you never become Champion even after beating the old Champion cause every time you fight him, Alder is still the Champion. Same with Lance, Blue, Wallace, Steven, and Cynthia.)

That's typical with all sorts of games like that. See Pokémon XD for another Pokémon example: when you return to the room where you battled Greevil, he has six completely different non-Shadow Pokémon and acts like you lost the previous battle to him even though you already succeeded in purifying all six of his Shadow Pokémon, and may very well be fighting him using those Pokémon. If the game recognized the final possible feat in the game being done, then there would be no reason to replay the game and do it again.

Speaking of final events...while games like Black/White - typical standard ones - have a Hall of Fame, are you able to view your previous stats or does it only appear the once, you save the game, and you never see it again? If not, it goes with having to treat the final stage as unbeaten even if you've already beaten it.

Cyclone

(NOTE: let's not delve into a discussion about XD here; I use it merely as a point of reference here.)

Atomic Pirate July 17th, 2012 9:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by voicerocker (Post 7256585)
Strictly opinion only, with no evidence either. Compared to older Pokemon designs, these were very thought out.

http://sprites.pokecheck.org/i/561.gifhttp://sprites.pokecheck.org/i/576.gifhttp://sprites.pokecheck.org/i/584.gifhttp://sprites.pokecheck.org/i/615.gifhttp://sprites.pokecheck.org/i/569.gif
Wow, how so very thought out. You know, there was a time when Pokemon were creatures and plants (with the occasional robot or monster), not just random objects that had superpowers. A flying wooden Jack-O-Lantern? A lolita girl? Ice Cream? A snowflake? A trash bag? Those aren't things that make me think of Pokemon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by voicerocker (Post 7256585)
Which contradicts your earlier statement about them being lackluster, which usually translates into "They don't look like Pokemon". But Pokemon like Voltorb or Muk or any Gen 1 Pokemon was just extremely creative compared to Pokemon like the Tao Dragons, right?

You mean Reshirammon and Zekrommon? Or Kyuremmon? DI DI DI DIGIMON DIGITAL MONSTERS ARE THE CHAMPIONS.

Voltorb, Magnemite, Koffing and Grimer were in the First Generation to emphasize the human presence in the world of Pokemon. Voltorb and Magnemite were built by humans, and Koffing and Grimer spawned from pollution.

And about the Tao Dragons, let's take a walk through the history of Legendary Pokemon.

1st gen: We had a trio that included a Pokemon based off of the American-Indian Thunderbird, a Pokemon inspired by the legendary Phoenix, and one akin to the Roc. We also got 2 cats, with one being the creator of all Pokemon, and the other being an extremely badass, scientifically enhanced clone of the first.

2nd gen: We got a trio of beasts, which included a Sabretooth tiger, a lion, and a wolf. We were also treated to two immense flying creatures, which consisted of another, more powerful phoenix and a sea-dwelling dragon. We also got an elusive forest guardian that embodied all nature.

3rd gen: This is where Game Freak began to push the number of Legendaries. We got mineral-based golems, weather-based creatures (a dragon, a whale, and a tyrannosaur), a genetically-altered alien, a steel genie thing that is completely pointless, and two forgettable psychic dragons.

4th gen: This was probably the worst. We got a few overly detailed, Digimon-esque dragons embodying Time, Space, and... I guess whatever Giratina embodies. We also got 3 stupid-ass pixies, a pointless 4th Golem, a robotic volcano monster, a sea pixie, a flower hedgehog, these two nondescript ghost-monster-robots embodying dreams and nightmares, and let's not forget the all-powerful, almighty goat.

5th gen: We get 3 robot dragons that I guess were supposed to embody the Tao, 3 nondescript horse-dog-cat-monsters that represented the 3 musketeers (A great concept, but ruined by the fact that the Pokemon themselves were just monsters), 3 genie-kami things that serve no purpose, a pony thing that was probably designed by 12-year-old Bronies, a singer Pokemon, and a robotic-monster-gun-mantis thing.

Cyclone July 17th, 2012 9:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elgyem (Post 7257960)
3 genie-kami things that serve no purpose

Practical purpose in battle, maybe not, but it was a random addition to the storyline at the end. I wish they did more with it, myself, but it was the generational wanderer and isn't even in B2/W2 from what I understand (unless that was updated recently). I guess they realized how stupid it was and left it for trading, or they'll Mystery Gift it. Who knows?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elgyem (Post 7257960)
a pony thing that was probably designed by 12-year-old Brownies, a singer Pokemon, and a robotic-monster-gun-mantis thing.

Keldeo, Meloetta, and Genesect; I for one am actually looking FORWARD to these, as they may very well be the first gift Pokémon for B2/W2. Keldeo I am definitely interested in; Sacred Sword seems like an excellent Fighting move, and if the gift one doesn't include it, all you need are the three Musketeers in B2/W2 and whammo, he can learn the move. Genesect appears to me to be a confusing waste of time shuffling plates, and Meloetta I'll reserve judgment on for now.

Cyclone

Xander Olivieri July 17th, 2012 9:39 AM

When did Reshiram/Zekrom/Kyurem become Robots? This is news to me.

Also Sigilyph is based off the Nazca Hummingbird.

Gothorita is akin to both Mr. Mime and Jynx.

Trubbish and Garbador's existance is exactly the same as Grimer's. They were created through Human pollution.

Vanillite, while its like has the looks of Ice Cream, they are solid chunks of living Ice. As for Food based Pokemon, Cherim is a living Cherry.

You can't even call any of the Pokemon from the newer Generations Digimon. If you can, then there were Digimon in Generation 1 as well. Golem is very Digimon-Esque by the same deffinition. Gyarados looks like its covered in Plate Armor with the Segments it has. The designs of Pokemon have been controversial since Gen 1 when compared to Digimon. If you are a true fan you don't care cause if its made by GameFreak its a Pokemon. You can't even argue against that. Made by the company that made the game for the game, it belongs in the game.

Digimon aren't just complex, but no one seems to care about that little bit of info cause the only thing they want to do is complain about the ones that do get complex and metallic.

No, none of the new Pokemon look any more Digimon-esque than any Pokemon in any generation before.

Atomic Pirate July 17th, 2012 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalzapdos (Post 7256890)
It had more of a Postgame than R/S, yet, for whatever reason, I never see any one complaining about their postgame. The only thing there was to do is the Battle Tower. B/W where about even with D/P.

Speak English and I might understand you better. But, from what I can pick out from this grammatical disaster, you seem to not understand that RS actually does get complained about regarding it's lack of postgame. It doesn't get complained about that much, though, because Gen. III also has Emerald with the Frontier and FRLG with the Sevii Islands. And you can't argue that B/W's piddly postgame was better than the colossal G/S/C/HG/SS postgames.
Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalzapdos (Post 7256890)
*sigh* Voltorb, Ditto, Magnemite, Grimer, Jynx, Seel, etc.

Wait, Seel? What? What's wrong with Seel?
And Voltorb, Magnemite, and Grimer had good reasons to look man-made. They were man-made. Plus, Voltorb's Pokeball-like appearance is similar to the appearance of a Mimic, a common RPG monster that looks like a treasure chest. Ditto transformed, and while Jynx was odd, it was in fact a novelty Pokemon even at the time.
Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalzapdos (Post 7256890)
Less than D/P, so it was an improvement, but yet again you ignore the previous releases and you only complain about the most current.

Actually, I hate D/P/Pt more than B/W. And plus, both games have 13 Legendaries, and I'm not even going into the insanely unnecessary amount of pointless Forms.
Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalzapdos (Post 7256890)
I love how supported this statement is.

The region is full of gimmicky and forgettable locales such as Chargestone Cave, the ungodly number of bridges, and Pinwheel Forest, to name a few.
Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalzapdos (Post 7256890)
Obviously Lillipup is covered in Spikes.

I didn't say Lillipup has spikes. Druddigon, Haxorus, Ferrothorn, Excadrill, Scolipede, Bisharp, and a few others do. Those spikes serve no purpose, besides to "look cool".
Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalzapdos (Post 7256890)
The game doesn't have the Battle Frontier because it is the first set of games, just as R/S and D/P didn't have one. Yet again, you seem to ignore that previous releases did the same thing.
Also, the game had the Battle Subway, which is the same thing as the Battle Tower.

Whatever, I was wrong, sue me.
Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalzapdos (Post 7256890)
Oh no, we can't chunk balls at Pokemon in a Safari-like atmosphere. Whatever will we do.

The Safari Zone, like it or not, was a series mainstay and allowed for the capture of some of the most interesting Pokemon in the series (Scyther, Kangaskhan, Heracross, etc.). I liked it, and many other people did.
Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalzapdos (Post 7256890)
I don't even get this one. What exactly constitutes as a "good rival"?

Oh, you liked the fact that the rivals were your best friends? I'm sorry, but many people, myself included, liked the more aggressive rivals such as Blue and Silver.
Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalzapdos (Post 7256890)
See above.

Oh, you're one of the people who actually likes the stupid Fire/Fighting starters? Plus, the other starters, or at least one of them, should have gotten a secondary type.
Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalzapdos (Post 7256890)
Well of couse your going to find a GAME MADE FOR EIGHT-YEAR OLDS too easy.

It's a game made for everyone to play. Not just little kids. And if you've ever played any of the Kanto games, not that I'd expect you to, you'd know that taking on the Kanto E4 and especially Champion Blue is a difficult task.
Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalzapdos (Post 7256890)
I'm sure if precious, oh-so perfect HG/SS had Random Matchup, it would be the same situation.

Ah, now you've just gone from being passive-aggressive to aggressive-aggressive. What you may not understand is that HGSS didn't need random matchup. They already had rematches, Red, a number of wild Pokemon, an expansive region, and good features. And yes, if they had Random Matchup, I would still abstain from using it. I've never really used the Global Trade Station in any of the games (Yes, even in "precious" HG/SS), so I really don't care that HGSS doesn't have a random matchup system.
Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalzapdos (Post 7256890)
You keep telling yourself that.

I started with the Hoenn games, yet the Johto games are my favorite. Plus, while I like Hoenn, I acknowledge that they have a number of flaws. Wow, with every reply you're looking more and more like an angry little kid.
Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalzapdos (Post 7256890)
And cue the HG/SS fanboyism.

Wow, it's so horrible that HG/SS were my favorite games. That definitely deserves to be insulted.
And cue the B/W fanboyism.
Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalzapdos (Post 7256890)
They set a new standard with remakes...... right.

They took everything that D/P/Pt did right, kept it, added new features and a truly interesting region, and all in all, set a precedent for the series. They were the series' best games at the time, and I really don't think that B/W lived up to them.
Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalzapdos (Post 7256890)
Good, you know how hard holding a button is.

To you, convenience is the enemy! Eliminate the awful conveniences!
Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalzapdos (Post 7256890)
Oh yeah, if I wait 100 days I can throw balls at a Bagon. How fun.

I get it. You hate the Safari Zone. You don't need to keep saying it.
Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalzapdos (Post 7256890)
I hated that feature. It added nothing to the game and served no purpose.

Oh no! How dare Game Freak make a new feature that fans love! How DARE they!
Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalzapdos (Post 7256890)
Red had a team with terrible move sets. All he has is levels. You can beat him with a team of level 60s, which is extremely underleveled compared to Red.

It's not exactly, you know, easy to get a team in the 60s. You need to work hard at it. But, judging by your extreme hatred, I'd expect that you're too lazy to train. And if you are too lazy to work hard and train a good team, then Black and White are perfect for you.
Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalzapdos (Post 7256890)
Again, Voltorb, Grimer, Dunsparce, Seel, etc.
I'm sure you'll never respond to this, but if you do it'll be something like, "Hurr huur B/W has Ice Cream Pokemanz!!!!"

You're sure, huh? Well, I just did respond to it. Don't be hatin' on Dunsparce, I don't see what's so awful about it. Heck, it was even based off of something, that being a Japanese legend.
And why do you keep bringing up Seel? I know you Unova-obsessed newbies are all "HURR DURR KAYNTO AND JOTTO SUKS BEKAZ MANGMITE AND GRIMER AND YEAH!!!!1111", but Seel? What's wrong with Seel? It has a simple design, it's slightly cute, and it was an interesting Water-type option for a Gen. 1 team.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XanderO (Post 7257990)
If you are a true fan you don't care cause if its made by GameFreak its a Pokemon.

http://lparchive.org/Drill-Dozer/Images/9-drildozer1.jpg
Umm, so this is a Pokemon? I mean, by your knowledge, Drill Dozer was made by Game Freak, so the main character must be a Pokemon, right?

And plus, I'm sorry, but if Game Freak made a super-complicated, super-armored giant half tiger, half dragon demon, that looked nothing like a Pokemon, and called it a Pokemon, then it wouldn't look like a Pokemon. I'm sorry, but contrary to you Unova fans' beliefs, Pokemon does have a certain style to it.

Xander Olivieri July 17th, 2012 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elgyem (Post 7258025)
http://lparchive.org/Drill-Dozer/Images/9-drildozer1.jpg
Umm, so this is a Pokemon? I mean, by your knowledge, Drill Dozer was made by Game Freak, so the main character must be a Pokemon, right?

And plus, I'm sorry, but if Game Freak made a super-complicated, super-armored giant half tiger, half dragon demon, that looked nothing like a Pokemon, and called it a Pokemon, then it wouldn't look like a Pokemon. I'm sorry, but contrary to you Unova fans' beliefs, Pokemon does have a certain style to it.

Was Drill Dozer made for a Pokemon Game? No. Did you read what I said? Apparently not. If GameFreak made it FOR THE GAME, then its for the game. I.E. If Game Freak designed a Pokemon, for the Pokemon Games, then its a Pokemon and looks like a Pokemon. No argument can overrule that.

Yes if GameFreak made a super-complicated, super-armored giant half tiger, half dragon demon, FOR THE POKEMON GAMES, it WOULD be a Pokemon.

No, Pokemon doesn't have one specific design. It goes from Cute and cuddly to grotesque just as Digimon does, Digimon even goes further and into more detail. All 649 Pokemon would fit into the Digimon world because Digimon's art style is more broad than that of Pokemon's. So really, All Pokemon look like Digimon cause they all could fit in the Digimon world despite the fact that the two are completely separate entities, have stressed to fans that neither side is using concepts from the other, and are in no way are the two supposed to be related/compared because of core structural differences.


as for this:
Quote:

"HURR DURR KAYNTO AND JOTTO SUKS BEKAZ MANGMITE AND GRIMER AND YEAH!!!!1111"
Do you even know why that keeps being brought up? because of Blind ignorant nostalgia haters keep saying how stupid Trubbish and Klink are when THEY ARE BASED OFF THE SAME DAMNED THING GRIMER AND MAGNEMITE ARE. OH MY?! Its not that they suck. People simply need to learn their history before acting like a couple of 5 year olds in a daycare fighting over blocks. Magnemite and Grimer keep coming up to shove facts into the face of general haters and trolls who can't even do their homework on Pokemon.



Quote:

It's a game made for everyone to play. Not just little kids. And if you've ever played any of the Kanto games, not that I'd expect you to, you'd know that taking on the Kanto E4 and especially Champion Blue is a difficult task.
No it really wasn't. Yes Pokemon is made for younger audience. That is the target consumer. We are playing a Children's game. They do not target the older crowd for the In game events. The older crowd is drawn to the Metagame.

And yes Blue and Lance, the E4 in general for Kanto was easy. I beat them without too much trouble, and my brother beat the game faster than I did. He was 6 when he started playing. He beat his game in about 20ish hours and was underleveled by about 5 levels when he beat Blue. I beat mine in about 23ish hours and was evenly leveled with Blue.


Then and Now, there are Pokemon with horrible designs, don't fit with an expected Pokemon theme with "All" fans (cause yes I will acknowledge that not everyone views things the same way which is apparent in this thread).

And just to make something clear, my Favorite Pokemon Game is Yellow and Kanto is my favorite region. I think highly of Unova because for me its a Second Kanto even down to the design of the Pokemon, especially the ones everyone seems to hate which was roughly the same generic reception that Magnemite/Grimer got when they were released. The argument sadly blew up with the introduction of Digimon and the fact that we DO have 4 other Generations to compare all the Pokemon with.

Ironically two of my favorite Pokemon are from Kanto and Unova XD

Pokemon's Art is evolving over time, they even add to the older Pokemon, what with Gender Differences and all that. Who is to say that in 1 or 2 Generations they may sneak in new designs to older Pokemon without us knowing simply to have the older ones match the change they made to the newer ones.

Sydian July 17th, 2012 11:23 AM

Because people don't take off the nostalgia goggles. But that's all I'm going to say, as I don't want to be a part of this convoluted conversation.

Clucknadus July 17th, 2012 2:24 PM

I have yet to hear a person who blatantly hates the games as a whole to give a valid reason for hating the games. Most of those people refuse to take off their nostalgia goggles. Thus, they see Pokemon like Vanillite and Trubbish and completely reject the games as a whole. So, nostalgia, plain and simple. Also, those people who refuse to take off the nostalgia glasses make me very angry.

Atomic Pirate July 17th, 2012 3:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XanderO (Post 7258081)
Yes if GameFreak made a super-complicated, super-armored giant half tiger, half dragon demon, FOR THE POKEMON GAMES, it WOULD be a Pokemon.

Yes, it technically would be a Pokemon, but would it look like one? Pokemon does, in fact, have a distinctive visual style that impacts every Pokemon, from the cute to the monstrous. You can't simply take something and call it a Pokemon. Even the Unova Pokemon that I constantly criticize at least slightly stick to the Pokemon style.

The whole idea of the Pokemon style is one that you Unova fans often overlook while bashing anyone who dares prefer the older games over the new ones. You hate the idea that most Pokemon have a certain artistic style. For a decent retrospective on the Pokemon style, just look at some beginner Fakemon. Many of them look nothing like actual Pokemon, and much of the time it's due to a style that is quite unlike that of Pokemon, whether it be because of a larger reliance on realism, a more cartoonish style, or a different factor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sydian (Post 7258114)
Because people don't take off the nostalgia goggles. But that's all I'm going to say, as I don't want to be a part of this convoluted conversation.

Obviously you do want to be a part of this conversation, and you're just trying to add more fuel to the fire.

As for what you actually said, what part of "I started out with Gen. III" do you not understand? Just because I started with Gen. III, that doesn't mean I think that that generation is the only good one. In fact, I prefer Johto over the other generations.


I'll (hopefully) leave the conversation with this statement:

I don't hate all Generation V Pokemon.

Just look at my username: Elgyem

Sure, I do think that many of the Generation V Pokemon were lacklustre, but a few were decent. I thought that Elgyem and Beheeyem were cool, and the concept of Reuniclus was certainly interesting. I liked some of the more animal-inspired Pokemon of the Generation (ex. Joltik/Galvantula, Deerling/Sawsbuck, Stoutland, etc.). It's not that I hate, or even dislike, the games. They were still alright, but personally I didn't enjoy them as much as I enjoyed HG/SS. Overall, I thought the games were good, but not great. I certainly liked the Unova Pokemon better than the Sinnoh Pokemon, that's one thing for sure.

Overall, I'd give the games something like a 35/40. Not amazing, but still good. I just kind of wished the game was slightly harder and the postgame was better.

Munchlax11 July 17th, 2012 5:18 PM

There are only a few of the original designers still designing pokemon. The design style has really changed. There was nothing wrong with the games, but design wise I think they are going in the wrong direction. :(

Ho-Oh July 17th, 2012 5:29 PM

Reminder time - guys, this thread is about why you think others dislike the games, not for your own personal opinion on why they suck/why they were good, which is what Perfect Score/Compared to other generations and so on is for. We get the same discussions over and over, and if every new thread that remotely discusses opinions turns into this then I don't really think the section needs it. From now on guys, please, keep in mind you're not saying why YOU dislike them, or YOUR issues with them, and instead address other people's issues, which are the common complaints about the games. These include post game, too easy, only Unova Pokemon, Unova Pokemon are ugly, and so on. I'm sure you've seen enough about the common complaints to be able to discuss from those. :(

Kanto_Johto July 17th, 2012 6:05 PM

Reasons why I think bad remarks are made:

1. Some of the Pokemon's designs step over a lot of people's subconscious limit i.e. they're of the opinion that things like garbage and ice cream shouldn't form the basis of a Pokemon design. I'm slightly in agreement with this. I think that garbage and ice cream Pokemon is stretching a bit too far, but hey. It appeals to some people and has proven to be somewhat successful, so I can't knock Game Freak for that.

2. Simply put, many of us have grown older, which means it is impossible to replicate the feeling of excitement we once knew as kid playing Pokemon RGBY/GSC/RSE. In other words, nostalgia goggles are worn by too many people. I've grown to accept that newer Pokemon games will likely never be as special to me as the first three series of games, so now I just enjoy the games for what they are.

3. Problems that have cropped up before appear again in BW. Lack of post game, Gym Leaders cannot be rematched, too many legendaries etc.

To be honest, I preferred BW a whole lot more than I did DPPt. I could probably write pages of complaints about those games (or at least DP).

Haseyo July 17th, 2012 7:00 PM

I had the exact same amount of excitement playing old games as a kid and playing these newer ones. Goggles don't effect me. I know a good improvement to a series when I see one.

Rivvon July 17th, 2012 7:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spinosaurus (Post 7256758)
Gen 5 Pokemon being the only ones available until post-game. Before you jump the gun and start labeling me as a nostalgic-filled person, I like the new Pokemon, they're a step-up from past gens, and they were the only things done right in the questionable design choices that has happened in these two games. However, Pokemon is known for the variety available and the fun of catching them all. I'm not saying B/W isn't really varied and that you can't "catch them all", but having a team solely built of one generation kills some of that, makes the experience more boring. Gen I had the excuse of being the first in the series, this doesn't apply to B/W. I am against nostalgia glass, just to clarify.

It actually does apply to BW, because Game Freak has stated time and again that it was meant to mimic what gen 1 did--it removes the tendency to rely on Pokemon you already know so well. It's a completely fresh start. It's also why there were 156 Pokemon introduced (more than any previous generation). If anything, this "issue" is fixed post-game, where you can find Pokemon of all gens in the tall grass.


Honestly, the only "bad" remarks I've seen are those of people that are too picky. "The Pokemon's designs suck because [X]." "There are like a million legendaries." "I don't like the shape of Unova." And the list goes on.
Some of it is nostalgia talking, but a lot of it is just pickiness. Sure, the games weren't perfect, but they weren't terrible; however, if you expect everything in the games to be 100% how you want it, you're going to be disappointed, because Game Freak isn't going to come over to your house and make a game custom-tailored to your every whim.

crystalzapdos July 17th, 2012 7:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elgyem (Post 7258025)
Speak English and I might understand you better. But, from what I can pick out from this grammatical disaster,

I misspelled on word, but whatever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elgyem (Post 7258025)
And you can't argue that B/W's piddly postgame was better than the colossal G/S/C/HG/SS postgames.

Never once did I say, "HG/SS had a worse postgame than B/W." You said, "There's effectively no postgame" which isn't true at all. It had more than R/S and the original R/B/Y, and its about even with D/P.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elgyem (Post 7258025)
Wait, Seel? What? What's wrong with Seel?

Aside from its terrible name, it was so bland. Its basically just a seal. Nothing made it unique.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elgyem (Post 7258025)
And Voltorb, Magnemite, and Grimer had good reasons to look man-made.

Oh, so its only okay for some Pokemon to be man-made, but not all of them. That makes alot of sense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elgyem (Post 7258025)
They were man-made.

I don't understand this reason at all. Its like saying water came out of a faucet because it did come out of a faucet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elgyem (Post 7258025)
Plus, Voltorb's Pokeball-like appearance is similar to the appearance of a Mimic, a common RPG monster that looks like a treasure chest.

Okay? That doesn't change the fact that its just a Pokeball with eyes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elgyem (Post 7258025)
Ditto transformed,

Fair enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elgyem (Post 7258025)
and while Jynx was odd, it was in fact a novelty Pokemon even at the time.

So because its a novelty Pokemon, its okay for them to be bad?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elgyem (Post 7258025)
Actually, I hate D/P/Pt more than B/W.

Hey, something we both agree on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elgyem (Post 7258025)
And plus, both games have 13 Legendaries, and I'm not even going into the insanely unnecessary amount of pointless Forms.

You were right on this one. I forgot to count Victini.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elgyem (Post 7258025)
The region is full of gimmicky and forgettable locales such as Chargestone Cave, the ungodly number of bridges, and Pinwheel Forest, to name a few.

What classifies them as, "Forgettable." Maybe I think Mt. Mortar, Whirl Islands, and Ilex Forest are, "Forgettable."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elgyem (Post 7258025)
I didn't say Lillipup has spikes. Druddigon, Haxorus, Ferrothorn, Excadrill, Scolipede, Bisharp, and a few others do. Those spikes serve no purpose, besides to "look cool".

So what if a certain object, not just spikes, are non a Pokemon just to look cool? Don't you want them to look cool?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elgyem (Post 7258025)
The Safari Zone, like it or not, was a series mainstay and allowed for the capture of some of the most interesting Pokemon in the series (Scyther, Kangaskhan, Heracross, etc.). I liked it, and many other people did.

And I didn't, but I guess this is subjective.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elgyem (Post 7258025)
Oh, you liked the fact that the rivals were your best friends? I'm sorry, but many people, myself included, liked the more aggressive rivals such as Blue and Silver.

I honestly don't care about wither or not my rival is my friend or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elgyem (Post 7258025)
Oh, you're one of the people who actually likes the stupid Fire/Fighting starters?

We've had three Pure Grass and Pure Water starters, yet you don't complain about those.

Also, there's two other starters you can choose from if it bothers you that much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elgyem (Post 7258025)
Plus, the other starters, or at least one of them, should have gotten a secondary type.

Kanto had the same situation, and none of the Johto starters had a secondary type, yet you don't complain about them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elgyem (Post 7258025)
It's a game made for everyone to play. Not just little kids.

No, its made for little kids to play. If people like you and me want to play them then fine, but your not the target audience.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elgyem (Post 7258025)
And if you've ever played any of the Kanto games, not that I'd expect you to,

My first game was FireRed, and my Third favorite region is Kanto.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elgyem (Post 7258025)
you'd know that taking on the Kanto E4 and especially Champion Blue is a difficult task.

Yes, it was difficult when I was a little kid with less experience, but going back to it I don't find it harder than any other regions league.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elgyem (Post 7258025)
Ah, now you've just gone from being passive-aggressive to aggressive-aggressive.

And this has what to do with anything?....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elgyem (Post 7258025)
What you may not understand is that HGSS didn't need random matchup.

None of the reasons you gave had anything to do with this, but okay.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elgyem (Post 7258025)
They already had rematches, Red,

Fun Fact: B/W had more daily rematches than HG/SS. In B/W, you had 16 daily trainers in the Stadiums, Morimoto, Cheren, and anywhere from 3 to 7 trainers on the Royal Unova. Sometimes you would be able to battle Cynthea, which make the total for B/W anywhere from 21-26 trainers a day. HG/SS had anywhere from 4-7 Pokegear rematches, 1-3 Gym matches, Red, and sometimes a rival battle. This means there's anywhere from 6-12 rematches a day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elgyem (Post 7258025)
a number of wild Pokemon,

Your point? Every game has wild Pokemon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elgyem (Post 7258025)
an expansive region,

Johto had 10 cities while Unova, not counting B/W2 exclusive cities, had 13 cities. I don't see how Johto was bigger than Unova, let alone any other region. It's the smallest of the five.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elgyem (Post 7258025)
And yes, if they had Random Matchup, I would still abstain from using it. I've never really used the Global Trade Station in any of the games (Yes, even in "precious" HG/SS), so I really don't care that HGSS doesn't have a random matchup system.

If you don't use it, why are you complaining?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elgyem (Post 7258025)
They took everything that D/P/Pt did right, kept it, added new features and a truly interesting region, and all in all, set a precedent for the series. They were the series' best games at the time, and I really don't think that B/W lived up to them.

Subjective. Everything here is a opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elgyem (Post 7258025)
To you, convenience is the enemy! Eliminate the awful conveniences!

I just don't get why people praise HG/SS so much for that. Most of the time I would hit B anyways out of habit. I don't see how not having to hold B is a convince. Its not that hard.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elgyem (Post 7258025)
Oh no! How dare Game Freak make a new feature that fans love! How DARE they!

I didn't love it. I would have been totally fine with the feature if you were able to turn it off. And, as with the running shoes, it was a feature that didn't really do anything. I don't think HG/SS deserve a 10/10 for a auto-run feature and Pokemon following you. I also don't think B/W should be hated on for not having these pointless features.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elgyem (Post 7258025)
It's not exactly, you know, easy to get a team in the 60s. You need to work hard at it.

Yeah, it was pretty hard considering HG/SS had almost no rematches.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elgyem (Post 7258025)
But, judging by your extreme hatred, I'd expect that you're too lazy to train.

Yeah, I kind of am. I play Pokemon to have fun, and I don't exactly find raising 6 Pokemon 15 levels against level 40 wild Pokemon just to fight some trainer in a mountain fun.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elgyem (Post 7258025)
You're sure, huh? Well, I just did respond to it.

Yeah, I'm shocked. I applaud you for actually responding, unlike most people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elgyem (Post 7258025)
And why do you keep bringing up Seel?

Because, like I said earlier, I find it to be a bland, non-unique animal Pokemon that's named after a horrible pun.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elgyem (Post 7258025)
I know you Unova-obsessed newbies

Again, my first game was FireRed so I hardly see how I'm a "newbie." I'm simply not stuck in the past like you seem to be.

Also, Unova isn't even my favorite region, Hoenn is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elgyem (Post 7258025)
are all "HURR DURR KAYNTO AND JOTTO SUKS BEKAZ MANGMITE AND GRIMER AND YEAH!!!!1111",

And you nostalgia-fans are all like, "HURR DURR UNIOVA SUKS BEKAZ KLANK AND RABBISH AND YEAH!!!!1111"

Really, I don't go around the internet hating on Magnemite and Grimer. The only time I do this is when you people say this.

Also, I don't quite get where you get the impression I hate Kanto.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elgyem (Post 7258025)
but Seel? What's wrong with Seel? It has a simple design, it's slightly cute, and it was an interesting Water-type option for a Gen. 1 team.

I've already explained this twice, so.....

Ninjagon July 17th, 2012 9:41 PM

Those are some good points guys, some of them i read, some i didn't. The reason why i didn't read some was because they were mostly just a great, big argument. Requility is right i just wanted your opinions :).

Oblivion Wing July 18th, 2012 5:03 AM

Honestly, I wasn't expecting much from this game when I first was informed of it's release. Yes, I agree that the new Pokemon don't look like previous art. I gave it a chance and thought that the story was pretty good, nothing like previous games (again). But I think that you can't expect everything to be better than before (happens with everything, from games, to music, anything really), just expect something good out of it. :)

Atomic Pirate July 18th, 2012 9:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalzapdos (Post 7258695)
Aside from its terrible name, it was so bland. Its basically just a seal. Nothing made it unique.

And Roggenrola was a better name? It's an even worse pun.
Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalzapdos (Post 7258695)
Oh, so its only okay for some Pokemon to be man-made, but not all of them. That makes alot of sense.

The few Pokemon that were man made are a good example of the human presence in the Pokemon World. However, they shouldn't all look robotic, it's Pokemon, not Robomon.
Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalzapdos (Post 7258695)
Okay? That doesn't change the fact that its just a Pokeball with eyes.

Yet I don't see you complaining about Amoongus, which is just a mushroom with a Pokeball-like cap. This just proves you hate the old and only like the new.
Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalzapdos (Post 7258695)
So because its a novelty Pokemon, its okay for them to be bad?

Yet again, I don't see you whining about the many bad B/W Pokemon. There are bad ones in every generation. If you're going to complain about Jynx, you can at least acknowledge that there were bad ones in Unova as well (Audino, Gothitelle, Swoobat)
Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalzapdos (Post 7258695)
So what if a certain object, not just spikes, are non a Pokemon just to look cool? Don't you want them to look cool?

Is Lugia cool? Judging by it's popularity, then yes, it is very cool. Does it have spikes? No. Spikes and armor don't make a Pokemon cool.
Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalzapdos (Post 7258695)
Kanto had the same situation, and none of the Johto starters had a secondary type, yet you don't complain about them.

No, Kanto had only 1 starter with only 1 type, that one being Blastoise. Venusaur is Grass/Poison and Charizard is Fire/Flying. And with Johto, the three starters all only had one type, which was consistent within the trio. With B/W, you had a pure Grass and a pure Water, but Game Freak decided they like the Fire/Fighting tradition too much, so they just had to make Emboar a Fire/Fighting.
Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalzapdos (Post 7258695)
And this has what to do with anything?....

It has to do with the fact that you're simply bashing me and my preferences without providing any real substantial points.
Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalzapdos (Post 7258695)
Johto had 10 cities while Unova, not counting B/W2 exclusive cities, had 13 cities. I don't see how Johto was bigger than Unova, let alone any other region. It's the smallest of the five.

I believe that you're forgetting the fact that the Johto games also featured Kanto.
Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalzapdos (Post 7258695)
I didn't love it. I would have been totally fine with the feature if you were able to turn it off. And, as with the running shoes, it was a feature that didn't really do anything. I don't think HG/SS deserve a 10/10 for a auto-run feature and Pokemon following you. I also don't think B/W should be hated on for not having these pointless features.

I know how much you hate conveniences, but when a Pokemon game has these conveniences, it's easy to get used to them. And I, personally, prefer conveniences over no conveniences.
Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalzapdos (Post 7258695)
Again, my first game was FireRed so I hardly see how I'm a "newbie." I'm simply not stuck in the past like you seem to be.

Yes, I know how awful it is that I prefer the older games. I'm so sorry that I have the opinion that the older games are better. It certainly is horrifying.
Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalzapdos (Post 7258695)
And you nostalgia-fans are all like, "HURR DURR UNIOVA SUKS BEKAZ KLANK AND RABBISH AND YEAH!!!!1111"
Really, I don't go around the internet hating on Magnemite and Grimer. The only time I do this is when you people say this.

I know you think anyone who dares like the older generations better is simply "stuck in the past", but I must ask you: Have you heard of opinions before?


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