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-   -   6th Gen X/Y General Chat and Speculation (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=294336)

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire March 20th, 2013 10:08 PM

I sort of doubt they'll bring back the following feature, at least for now. If it's return it'll proably be in the sequels, or third version, or the Hoenn remakes (if made).

However a place like Amity would make sense as in Paris they have a very dog friendly atmosphere, which in Pokémon France could mean that they allow Pokémon out, and let them play with their surroundings.

vaporeon7 March 20th, 2013 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magmaruby and Aquasapphire (Post 7590303)
I sort of doubt they'll bring back the following feature, at least for now. If it's return it'll proably be in the sequels, or third version, or the Hoenn remakes (if made).

However a place like Amity would make sense as in Paris they have a very dog friendly atmosphere, which in Pokémon France could mean that they allow Pokémon out, and let them play with their surroundings.

I wouldn't be surprised if that happened, and I'd like it too.

Ho-Oh March 21st, 2013 3:49 AM

Harder than Red I don't think really is a good idea. Level 80 was way strong and a level 100 trainer just seems like overkill, and destroys what we've had with Red, being the greatest trainer, etc.

vaporeon7 March 21st, 2013 3:53 AM

If they're gonna include a lv100 trainer ever, want it to be Red. As Danica said, he is the strongest trainer and stuff.

Ho-Oh March 21st, 2013 4:45 AM

Thing is it probably wouldn't be someone from generation one, imo. That's six generations back, and the only one I can think of relevant now is N. /pro-N

vaporeon7 March 21st, 2013 5:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twilight Sky (Post 7590523)
You've both brought up some good points, but what if there was a trainer stronger than Red? I suppose that level 100 trainer could be the guy himself, but to spice things up, what if it was another well-known character, like Blue? Personally, in these games, if facing any old character was an option, I'd face Blue, and hopefully he would have some level 85-level 90 Pokemon.

Sure, the levels are high, but that's what makes it more of a challenge, and more exciting! For me, at least. xD;

I wouldn't mind that but I always though Game Freak wanted it to go Red > Blue

Cyclone March 21st, 2013 5:45 AM

If Red or Blue, it makes sense to make them stronger than before. Blue was in the 70s, Red around 81.

Cyclone

Z25 March 21st, 2013 11:22 AM

I would want whoever the trainer is to have level 100s. Red was very easy for me, i beat him with pokemon of his weakness in the 60s plus i saw someone beat him with hoppip. I would want it to be N more then anyone else.

Jake♫ March 21st, 2013 4:13 PM

Just because something is older doesn't mean it isn't relevant. If anything, Red is the most relevant trainer in the games. For starters, Ash is based off of Red, so we have the whole anime with him. If anything everyone knows of Red. Just because we had N more recently doesn't make him anywhere near the strongest trainer. I wouldn't want to fight the same trainer that's returned for the past two games, especially since he isn't the strongest. If anything, I'd rather have a callback to the older games where the older players will appreciate the reference, and newer players will all know of Ash at least, so they'll know where he came from.

Cyclone March 21st, 2013 4:27 PM

Something to remember is that Red and Ash are still separate characters, hence Yellow which was based on the anime in giving you only Pikachu to use as a starter. In that game, you literally play as Ash Ketchum. Thus you have the four different people in the anime who started their adventure at the same time.

And yes, I like callbacks.

Cyclone

Jake♫ March 21st, 2013 4:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CycloneGU (Post 7591103)
Something to remember is that Red and Ash are still separate characters, hence Yellow which was based on the anime in giving you only Pikachu to use as a starter.

I did say that he's just based off of him, although I kind of had a run-on sentence there that made it seem otherwise. But yes, I do understand that. Moral of the story: I just want Red back. Or Blue. Or any older callback. Nothing from the last generation or two please. Cynthia is tired, and we just had two generation five games. Anything older than that I'd be happy with.

vaporeon7 March 21st, 2013 4:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twilight Sky (Post 7591080)
I suppose I'm saying that because I want the games to be more of a challenge. I'm not sure about you guys, but even B2W2 wasn't really that difficult, and I'd like for them to increase the difficulty just a tad bit, I guess. xD;

I think Join Avenue made B2W2 really lazy. Getting things that took time instantly. Having an expert difficulty would be good. All they would have to do is give opponents better AI, movesets and let them hold items. Opponents with Revives would make things more challenging to.

Jake♫ March 21st, 2013 5:05 PM

I think I'd just want to see Challenge mode be brought back and have the enhanced AI and movesets. I think it was a feature they really didn't full potential of the last games.

Ho-Oh March 21st, 2013 5:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twilight Sky (Post 7591121)

Definitely this. x_x Cynthia was cool and all, but...yeah. I believe I posted this already, but...just no more Cynthia, she was way ahead of her generation, anyway.

I agree too. She literally added nothing to Unova, and if she appeared again she'd bring nothing to this region again :'(

Pinkie-Dawn March 21st, 2013 5:20 PM

Again with the challenge mode? Difficulty settings do not belong in JRPGs, at all, because of the use of turn-based text windows, the post-game material, and the fact that you'll still overlevel your opponents. Haven't you learn anything from Extra Creditz's video about Pokemon difficulty curve? It's suppose to be one of those games that suppose simple to play through(the basic elements like type effectiveness and switch outs) but hard to master (Effort Values and Individual Values).

Jake♫ March 21st, 2013 5:34 PM

The problem I'm having with this is that you're expecting us to have viewed all these outside sources of things. Not all of us are fanatical about watching people's theories on Youtube, so it's kind of silly to be dumbfounded that we haven't seen the latest thing there.

We want more of a challenge. Just because Pokémon is turn-based doesn't mean that we can't be given a more difficult game. If it's not seen in JRPGs, then let's be innovative. Have a difficulty mode to give people who more of a challenge to have a challenge. Unlike most things, it's almost a no-brainer after they've taken the step towards it with B2W2.

Although there is a difficulty curve already, not everyone chooses to battle competitively, or use IVs and EVs. That's an added thing that we're allowed to take use of. For some people, they just want a main storyline that's harder, with more advanced AI. With what we saw in B2W2, I don't see it being hard to implement for them at all.

Pinkie-Dawn March 21st, 2013 5:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake♫ (Post 7591193)
The problem I'm having with this is that you're expecting us to have viewed all these outside sources of things. Not all of us are fanatical about watching people's theories on Youtube, so it's kind of silly to be dumbfounded that we haven't seen the latest thing there.

Because these web shows have better points about what we're currently speculating when it comes to critical thinking from a business standpoint, which we tend to ignore when it comes to the targeted audience.

Quote:

We want more of a challenge. Just because Pokémon is turn-based doesn't mean that we can't be given a more difficult game. If it's not seen in JRPGs, then let's be innovative. Have a difficulty mode to give people who more of a challenge to have a challenge. Unlike most things, it's almost a no-brainer after they've taken the step towards it with B2W2.
The game is already challenging enough for gamers new to Pokemon. Keep in mind that the primary targeted audience are kids, who aren't capable of finishing the game in 2-3 days like older players. If you're a veteran fan, then of course will it be easy. Your future kids will have trouble playing the latest Zelda game much like you had trouble playing the Zelda game you grew up with as a kid. Besides, Nintendo is known for placing challenging levels/facilities post-game in their titles, and Pokemon's no exception with its post-game material.

Quote:

Although there is a difficulty curve already, not everyone chooses to battle competitively, or use IVs and EVs. That's an added thing that we're allowed to take use of. For some people, they just want a main storyline that's harder, with more advanced AI. With what we saw in B2W2, I don't see it being hard to implement for them at all.
Whether you like it or not, competitive players are becoming part of the Pokemon's targeted audience, as what a friend of mine from BMGF theorized about Gen V having a shorter/more linear story mode and reusable TM to allow competitive players to develop their teams quicker for on-coming VGC tournaments. A more advanced AI would only make the battles more frustrating than challenging if you include constant switch outs and critical hax. The battle facilities and Black Tower/White Tower are already hard enough to drive an experienced player nuts.

Jake♫ March 21st, 2013 6:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinkie-Dawn (Post 7591212)
Because these web shows have better points about what we're currently speculating when it comes to critical thinking from a business standpoint, which we tend to ignore when it comes to the targeted audience.

That doesn't mean that we've all seen it still. It's also mildly insulting say that we don't critical think as well as people you do Youtube videos. Although maybe not every thought we have is planned out as well, it's not like we aren't thinking. Expecting us to watch the videos to understand what you are choosing to reference is a little ridiculous.

The game is already challenging enough for gamers new to Pokemon. Keep in mind that the primary targeted audience are kids, who aren't capable of finishing the game in 2-3 days like older players. If you're a veteran fan, then of course will it be easy. Your future kids will have trouble playing the latest Zelda game much like you had trouble playing the Zelda game you grew up with as a kid. Besides, Nintendo is known for placing challenging levels/facilities post-game in their titles, and Pokemon's no exception with its post-game material.

Yes, I acknowledge that. That's not my point. Adding in an ADDITIONAL challenge mode -- NOT THE MAIN MODE THAT IS NORMAL FOR THE GAMES -- that people aren't required to play, is what I'm talking about. Yes, games for the experience players are easy. That's my point: Once you have an established series, it's starts getting stale for the long-timers. Zelda took on that challenge lately with Hero Mode, making us take double damage and no recovery hearts from plants. So yes, it's their version of challenge mode. Let's see something like that for Pokémon by increasing the AI a bit for something OPTIONAL.

Whether you like it or not, competitive players are becoming part of the Pokemon's targeted audience, as what a friend of mine from BMGF theorized about Gen V having a shorter/more linear story mode and reusable TM to allow competitive players to develop their teams quicker for on-coming VGC tournaments. A more advanced AI would only make the battles more frustrating than challenging if you include constant switch outs and critical hax. The battle facilities and Black Tower/White Tower are already hard enough to drive an experienced player nuts.

You do realize I've been part of the competitive scene of PC for the past five years =P I have ZERO issue with competitive play whatsoever. I don't think that people you don't want to be part of it because that's the only difficulty curve in the game should be forced to though. If people don't want to battle online, they shouldn't have to. Increasing the AI in an OPTIONAL challenge mode isn't that hard to implement, as they've done it in the past. Adding it in isn't some far out idea. It's already been done partially, let's take it the rest of the way.


I'm too lazy to break it up so responses in bold =P Also since I'm typing in bold, using caps for emphasis instead, so don't take that as yelling!

antemortem March 21st, 2013 6:20 PM

Jake is very much correct. VGC has had a history of being difficult to prepare for because people make a run-through of their games, leveling up their in-game teams to their heart contends whilst at the same time thrashing NPC's and steamrolling major characters and the villainous team, but when VGC comes around people haven't though much about what they plan on doing competitively, so it then becomes a complete overhaul of movesets, stats, etc.

Cyclone March 21st, 2013 6:51 PM

If a challenge mode were introduced, I'd suggest to create a second storyline and send the player to all of the Gyms a second time around, challenging much more difficult teams. The badges can be enhanced versions, like having a golden treatment to them or something. Once all badges are collected again, the final E4 of the game has something like Lv.80 Pokémon with all the extra experience you've been gaining. There can even be a new Victory Road, and you can't rechallenge the E4 until you are eligible the second time, instead of being able to go right back. New benefits can be tied to the second round of badges, and thus you can for instance have Lv.70 trades stop obeying you with all eight "normal" Badges, etc. (No using high-level Events the first time!)

It would be neat if the second storyline goes through new areas that have the much tougher Pokémon you can train against.

Admit it, you like this idea.

Cyclone

Jake♫ March 21st, 2013 6:58 PM

I honestly don't like that idea =/ I think that's going too far out of the way for a Challenge mode. I don't see coming up with a new storyline is plausible in the slightest. That's just going way out of the way to do something to increase difficulty. If they want to give us a challenge, then they should do just that -- give us a challenge. We don't need an entire new storyline for a challenge mode, just make the normal one harder.

Cyclone March 21st, 2013 7:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake♫ (Post 7591270)
I honestly don't like that idea =/ I think that's going too far out of the way for a Challenge mode. I don't see coming up with a new storyline is plausible in the slightest. That's just going way out of the way to do something to increase difficulty. If they want to give us a challenge, then they should do just that -- give us a challenge. We don't need an entire new storyline for a challenge mode, just make the normal one harder.

So ruin the hallmark of the games. They're not going to make the first Gym Lv.30. I personally like the idea of a second run of Gyms with or without new storyline, but new areas would still be a bonus. I actually disliked the G/S/C treatment, where they give you more Lv.2 Pokémon and such around Lv.45ish Trainers and Lv.50ish Gyms. I would have preferred Kanto wild encounters be harder, too.

Cyclone

Pinkie-Dawn March 21st, 2013 7:08 PM

The point I'm trying to make is that you guys will treat XY like crud because of the lack of an optional difficiulty setting that really has no place in a JRPG game like Pokemon. Challenge =/= masterpiece. Generation 2 was regarded as the best of the series despite having an easier difficulty curve than the other gens. We're better off having challenging post-game material such Zelda's Hero Mode than having an optional difficulty option, but no matter how much you whine to GF about increase the main storyline's difficulty, kids will always be the series' top priority, because, as provided by the Game Overthinker, video games are toys.

Cyclone March 21st, 2013 7:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinkie-Dawn (Post 7591275)
The point I'm trying to make is that you guys will treat XY like crud because of the lack of an optional difficiulty setting that really has no place in a JRPG game like Pokemon. Challenge =/= masterpiece. Generation 2 was regarded as the best of the series despite having an easier difficulty curve than the other gens. We're better off having challenging post-game material such Zelda's Hero Mode than having an optional difficulty option, but no matter how much you whine to GF about increase the main storyline's difficulty, kids will always be the series' top priority, because, as provided by the Game Overthinker, video games are toys.

Did you just say I would treat it like crud? Honestly, I am offended that you think I would hate the game for a lack of difficulty. RPGs are meant to challenge to a point, and you are meant to find a way to overcome it. That's what makes the game type. And even at a higher level, I'd just train more and still vanquish the opponent easily. I lost one Pokémon against the Champion (Iris) because I trained up to Lv.64-65 before going in there (started at 63, most had hit 64 after four battles, one at 65, still had one 63).

I personally think if the game threw Lv.100 Pokémon at you, it would not be fun at all.

There you have it.

Cyclone

Jake♫ March 21st, 2013 7:23 PM

Derk pretty much got everything I wanted to reply to with Pinkie-Dawn, so I'm pretty much going to skip that one. However, the LAST thing I'm saying (which was Derk's first point!) was that if one isn't included then I'm definitely not going to say the games are crap. That's preposterous and and ridiculous assumption. The addition of one would be awesome. Necessary? Absolutely not.

However, I don't think adding a difficult setting means that we're going to see the first gym at level 30 Cyclone. If anything that's just ridiculous to even throw out there. I don't see anything wrong with having a second run-through of the gyms at all, it's the addition of a new storyline for the sake of a Challenge mode I think is a little crazy. I think having an increasingly difficulty curve with better movesets and AI from the start would be good for a challenge mode.


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