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-   -   6th Gen X/Y General Chat and Speculation (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=294336)

Esper May 14th, 2013 12:41 PM

Names feel like they'd be easier to find out than game features. Names have to be put on all kinds of merchandise and that could increase the number of people who might have access to them and consequently the number of people who could leak those without knowing much else about the new games.

No idea how these things actually work. Those are just my impressions.

Jake♫ May 14th, 2013 12:43 PM

I really don't understand why everyone considers a new type long overdue. The type chart is very balanced as is. What does adding in the new type really give us other than Game Freak giving fan service? I just don't really get the point of it. There's nothing that has been hinting towards it or any good reason to really implement it honestly.

Of course if they do it well I'll be fine with it, but I guess this is the one thing about the new games I'm pessimistic about (other than the potential of dual-type attacks >.>).

Zorogami May 14th, 2013 12:49 PM

I don't think a new type is overdue either.
As Jake says, the type chart is pretty balanced as it is, i'd hate it if a new type would mess it all up.
On the other hand it will be pretty interesting to see what old Pokemon get this new type and how it might influence their use in battles!

blue May 14th, 2013 12:54 PM

I just think after 14 years of having the same group of types, adding an extra one wouldn't hurt at all. Sure it would jumble up a few advantages/weaknesses but that happened when Dark and Steel were introduced and they fit in perfectly well. Nintendo did want to evolve Pokemon for the next generation and adding a new type would certainly be a step in that direction.

Jake♫ May 14th, 2013 12:56 PM

The difference is Dark and Steel were introduced to balance the game with Psychic and Dragon types since they overpowered everything (especially Psychics during the first generation). There isn't really a practical reason to add a new type in right now, other than the please the fans who have been begging for one for who knows how long (and in my opinion that should never be a reason to do something if it doesn't make sense in the long run).

Cyclone May 14th, 2013 1:27 PM

Just FTR, I don't need - or necessarily want - a new type, either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorogami (Post 7661831)
STAB moves at Level 5 would definitely make the first Rival battle impossible!
With 2 attacks at the most our Pokemon would faint, which seems pretty unfair
Maybe the first rival battle doesnt happen until later? But this is i think very unlikely...

"Hey {NAME}, make sure you train SUPER hard. I'm going to make sure we're ready to face you as soon as we both reach {FIRST CITY} up ahead! See you then!"

It's possible. :P The intro battle that "tutorials" the controls and such can be something else. Realistically, though, they'll likely learn them at Lv.6, and losing that rival battle after learning STABS doesn't white you out, but the Rival then heals your Pokémon win or lose and the story continues.

Cyclone

Zorogami May 14th, 2013 1:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CycloneGU (Post 7661938)
Just FTR, I don't need - or necessarily want - a new type, either.


"Hey {NAME}, make sure you train SUPER hard. I'm going to make sure we're ready to face you as soon as we both reach {FIRST CITY} up ahead! See you then!"

Well if you create a scenario like this, then sure, it would be possible!
I just thought of the "old" games, where the very first thing you do after getting your first Pokemon is battle your rival. (Besides GSC, but your opponents Pokemon is still LV5, so thats okay.)

STAB moves at LV6 sounds reasonable, and being able to train your pokemon before the rival battle would be fair as well, so i don't have a problem with that :P

Pinkie-Dawn May 14th, 2013 1:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake♫ (Post 7661862)
I really don't understand why everyone considers a new type long overdue. The type chart is very balanced as is. What does adding in the new type really give us other than Game Freak giving fan service? I just don't really get the point of it. There's nothing that has been hinting towards it or any good reason to really implement it honestly.

Of course if they do it well I'll be fine with it, but I guess this is the one thing about the new games I'm pessimistic about (other than the potential of dual-type attacks >.>).

Except 1) Psychic types have become nothing more than a joke since Gen IV due to physical Dark moves, and 2) Gen IV also made Dragon types OP due to physical Outrage, forcing players to use more Steel types, which increases the use of Fighting and Ground types (Fire types are rarely used because of Stealth Rock). We need one more type to resist Dragon to keep it at bay. Plus, new types allow more creative ideas for a Pokemon, so they won't gain existing types that make little sense to their origin.

Z25 May 14th, 2013 1:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorogami (Post 7661946)
Well if you create a scenario like this, then sure, it would be possible!
I just thought of the "old" games, where the very first thing you do after getting your first Pokemon is battle your rival. (Besides GSC, but your opponents Pokemon is still LV5, so thats okay.)

STAB moves at LV6 sounds reasonable, and being able to train your pokemon before the rival battle would be fair as well, so i don't have a problem with that :P


You also forgot ruby/sapphire/ and emerald. You fight may a few routes later after you get your pokemon. You go through a town, one route and can train before fighting her on her route. SO we could have the same thing here.

Jake♫ May 14th, 2013 1:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinkie-Dawn (Post 7661952)
Except 1) Psychic types have become nothing more than a joke since Gen IV due to physical Dark moves, and 2) Gen IV also made Dragon types OP due to physical Outrage, forcing players to use more Steel types, which increases the use of Fighting and Ground types (Fire types are rarely used because of Stealth Rock). We need one more type to resist Dragon to keep it at bay. Plus, new types allow more creative ideas for a Pokemon, so they won't gain existing types that make little sense to their origin.

The two of us have had this debate multiple times, so I'm just going to step away from it and let it be since it's just getting repetitive. We both have differing opinions, so let's let it be.

On the topic of the starters and their STAB moves, it's definitely possible we won't fight our rival first. Maybe we have our intro battle like we did in RSE, and then have the opportunity to train before we go up against our rival. That way, even if they are given at level 5, at least you have the potentially to have a decent level gap already.

Zorogami May 14th, 2013 1:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoroarkrules25 (Post 7661956)
You also forgot ruby/sapphire/ and emerald. You fight may a few routes later after you get your pokemon. You go through a town, one route and can train before fighting her on her route. SO we could have the same thing here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake♫ (Post 7661958)
Maybe we have our intro battle like we did in RSE, and then have the opportunity to train before we go up against our rival


Alright, i honestly completely forgot that about the RSE games...
In that case, it could be more than likely the rival battle is at a later point in the game
But don't forget, the rival's pokemon in RSE was Lv5 and of course didn't know a STAB move yet

Xander Olivieri May 14th, 2013 1:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoroarkrules25 (Post 7661830)
I believe this all to be 100% true based on the fact he got the English names right. Also pokebeach pointed out that the source code for the new mewtwo is labeled mewtwo X, meaning there could be a mewtwo y. Also i think they accidentally left ice up( it can be hard to keep up with all the types) Also i am guessing the bracelet has something to do with collecting DNA.( maybe the professor(patrice?) studies pokemon DNA.) The gym like building is most likely a grass gym. Also i like that we get other outfits in the game. The game is looking amazing and seems to be shaping to be the best pokemon game yet imo.

Its not 100% True. Sylveon is SE against Ice. Ice was never mentioned in the leak. Therefore the information is partially fake if not all fake since the names were not included with that post. Since it says specifically all of Fairy's Strengths and Weaknesses and says Sylveon is Fairy typed, and now that we know Sylveon is SE against Ice we can conclude that all rumors on fairy since none have ever said anything about Ice are false.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinkie-Dawn (Post 7661952)
Except 1) Psychic types have become nothing more than a joke since Gen IV due to physical Dark moves, and 2) Gen IV also made Dragon types OP due to physical Outrage, forcing players to use more Steel types, which increases the use of Fighting and Ground types (Fire types are rarely used because of Stealth Rock). We need one more type to resist Dragon to keep it at bay. Plus, new types allow more creative ideas for a Pokemon, so they won't gain existing types that make little sense to their origin.

You must not play as much as you claim to play. Psychic types are plenty strong and have ran on top along side dragon, dark and others. Alakazam/Starmie/Espeon are currently OU. Dragons also aren't as strong as you claim. Outrage is nice, but it isn't the single most important part of a Dragon type's arsenal. Forcing the use of more Steel....which forces the use of Fighting and Ground, in turn forces the use of more Grass and Water which forces the use of more Fire and Electric. If you continue the cycle it would include every type except Normal to counter what's common.

Types were never the big issue, its the specific Pokemon with stats and move sets. You don't need to update types or nerf types. They just need to make more Pokemon with varying stats.

As for adding new types, no it doesn't open the door for more creativity. It causes more congestion because now you have one additional peg to look at when considering what type to put it into. They may not retype any Pokemon with the new type. How would that help? How would that hurt? Would retyping help the individual Pokemon? Would it hurt the individual Pokemon? How would the retyping make sense? A Pokemon that was once weak to a certain type is now resisting or immune to it. Yes that makes a lot of sense when you add in more types.

We don't need new types. We need better Pokemon of existing types.

We don't need to re-balance the type chart as there was nothing wrong with it. Each type was made specifically to do certain things and have been that way for years. Changing it now makes no sense.

SolarAbusoru May 14th, 2013 1:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XanderO (Post 7661974)
Its not 100% True. Sylveon is SE against Ice. Ice was never mentioned in the leak. Therefore the information is partially fake if not all fake since the names were not included with that post. Since it says specifically all of Fairy's Strengths and Weaknesses and says Sylveon is Fairy typed, and now that we know Sylveon is SE against Ice we can conclude that all rumors on fairy since none have ever said anything about Ice are false.



You must not play as much as you claim to play. Psychic types are plenty strong and have ran on top along side dragon, dark and others. Alakazam/Starmie/Espeon are currently OU. Dragons also aren't as strong as you claim. Outrage is nice, but it isn't the single most important part of a Dragon type's arsenal. Forcing the use of more Steel....which forces the use of Fighting and Ground, in turn forces the use of more Grass and Water which forces the use of more Fire and Electric. If you continue the cycle it would include every type except Normal to counter what's common.

Types were never the big issue, its the specific Pokemon with stats and move sets. You don't need to update types or nerf types. They just need to make more Pokemon with varying stats.

As for adding new types, no it doesn't open the door for more creativity. It causes more congestion because now you have one additional peg to look at when considering what type to put it into. They may not retype any Pokemon with the new type. How would that help? How would that hurt? Would retyping help the individual Pokemon? Would it hurt the individual Pokemon? How would the retyping make sense? A Pokemon that was once weak to a certain type is now resisting or immune to it. Yes that makes a lot of sense when you add in more types.

We don't need new types. We need better Pokemon of existing types.

We don't need to re-balance the type chart as there was nothing wrong with it. Each type was made specifically to do certain things and have been that way for years. Changing it now makes no sense.

I agree with the points you make here, they're sensible

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire May 14th, 2013 2:07 PM

Hopefully, however the games could also have the rivals mons match our own...yikes

Cyclone May 14th, 2013 2:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorogami (Post 7661946)
Well if you create a scenario like this, then sure, it would be possible!

Not only possible, but even done already. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoroarkrules25 (Post 7661956)
You also forgot ruby/sapphire/ and emerald. You fight may a few routes later after you get your pokemon. You go through a town, one route and can train before fighting her on her route. SO we could have the same thing here.

Yeah, that. Though IIRC we receive our first Pokémon at Lake Verity in one iteration of Sinnoh. I think we have a random battle against a Lv.2 opponent there, too, do we not?

Cyclone

Zorogami May 14th, 2013 2:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CycloneGU (Post 7662000)
I think we have a random battle against a Lv.2 opponent there, too, do we not?

Against a Lv2 Starly if i remember correctly
The point still remains, the very first battle against your actual rival always had his pokemon at LV5, Without STAB moves

Jake♫ May 14th, 2013 2:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CycloneGU (Post 7662000)
Yeah, that. Though IIRC we receive our first Pokémon at Lake Verity in one iteration of Sinnoh. I think we have a random battle against a Lv.2 opponent there, too, do we not?

Cyclone

I want to say in Platinum we did, and then we battled our rival. The one battle didn't give enough experience to boost you to level 6 though, so you were pretty much still just fighting level 5 vs. level 5. Kind of makes it a moot point =P

Xander Olivieri May 14th, 2013 2:19 PM

Johto and Hoenn are the only two I recall being able to train my Pokemon before the rival's first fight. Both required you to do an errand and meet the rival at the end of a route.

Their's were still level 5 and had no stab as was mentioned.

blue May 14th, 2013 2:31 PM

Unless they incorporated some sort of game mechanic that allows your rivals Pokemon to be on par with the level of your Pokemon at that point in the game granted that there was an opportunity to battle wild Pokemon prior to the rival battle.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire May 14th, 2013 2:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suicune™ (Post 7662025)
Unless they incorporated some sort of game mechanic that allows your rivals Pokemon to be on par with the level of your Pokemon at that point in the game granted that there was an opportunity to battle wild Pokemon prior to the rival battle.

This is what I was talking about earlier. It'll really be something if they did that...and if the gym leaders did that too after your pokemon pass their strongest, so that even all the training one does one still has some trouble with them.

blue May 14th, 2013 2:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magmaruby and Aquasapphire (Post 7662044)
This is what I was talking about earlier. It'll really be something if they did that...and if the gym leaders did that too after your pokemon pass their strongest, so that even all the training one does one still has some trouble with them.

Exactly. That is why I don't like over-leveling my Pokemon before the first gym, I want it to be a challenge and being able to grind to Level 14 and taking the first gym down in one attempt is a little mediocre. Either that or have a certain level cap that you can reach before specific gyms so that it's more of a challenge, then again I can imagine many people would dislike that.

Cyclone May 14th, 2013 2:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suicune™ (Post 7662048)
Exactly. That is why I don't like over-leveling my Pokemon before the first gym, I want it to be a challenge and being able to grind to Level 14 and taking the first gym down in one attempt is a little mediocre. Either that or have a certain level cap that you can reach before specific gyms so that it's more of a challenge, then again I can imagine many people would dislike that.

I like the idea for the Champion. However, I do not like the idea for anyone else. Some players will play to be stronger than the Gym Leader in order to show superiority. Making every leader auto-level takes away the freedom to train and get stronger, and the want is for the player to explore the region.

Cyclone

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire May 14th, 2013 2:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suicune™ (Post 7662048)
Exactly. That is why I don't like over-leveling my Pokemon before the first gym, I want it to be a challenge and being able to grind to Level 14 and taking the first gym down in one attempt is a little mediocre. Either that or have a certain level cap that you can reach before specific gyms so that it's more of a challenge, then again I can imagine many people would dislike that.

I'm one of the people who wouldn't as I too don't like passing the gym leader's levels by much if at all. Usually I defeat them with my team being 3 levels under for extra challenge.

Zorogami May 14th, 2013 2:59 PM

I like this idea for the E4 or just the Champion, but not really for anything else.
This would take away the freedom to chose how strong you want your Pokemon to be before you take on the Gym. Some like the challenge, others want to make it on the first try.
Also, imagine people doing a single pokemon or monotype challenge. Most of the time you'll need overleved pokemon to beat a gym you are weak against, which would be impossible if the level adjusts to yours

Jake♫ May 14th, 2013 3:06 PM

Putting a level cap on the gyms and Elite Four just seems silly to me. You're supposed to train to be the best trainer. If you're capping your team you are now forced to not have the advantage that you're suppose to be working for: being stronger. It feels like it's an unnecessary amount of strategy on the player that the general playbase generally wouldn't use when playing through the games.


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