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-   -   6th Gen X/Y General Chat and Speculation (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=294336)

LycaNinja May 20th, 2013 8:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake♫ (Post 7669562)
Honestly that kinda just sounds like the dual-type attack rumor that was floating around. Just sounds like something that screws with the base mechanics of STAB that wouldn't really work out in the end in my opinion =/

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake♫ (Post 7669597)
Completely agreed. As I stated already, it messes with STAB so badly. I mean, theoretically, if something was dual typed and the move matched that, I guess you could just say you got a x2 bonus instead of a x1.5 bonus. I guess it isn't that complicated, but it is just unnecessary if anything. Just let that aspect be please =P

That's assuming that they cannot rework the entire game if they wanted to do so... I mean they obviously haven't done that before... The mechanics can literally be all different if they wanted it to be... You can't deny one thing because of something in the past... STAB formula could be changed to make it all work right...

Jake♫ May 20th, 2013 8:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LycaNinja (Post 7669851)
That's assuming that they cannot rework the entire game if they wanted to do so... I mean they obviously haven't done that before... The mechanics can literally be all different if they wanted it to be... You can't deny one thing because of something in the past... STAB formula could be changed to make it all work right...

...Did you read my second post. I made it pretty clear that they could do that, and even lined out a rather simple way they could go about and do it. Just because I'm personally against it doesn't mean I don't acknowledge that it can't happen. I'm definitely not denying that they can do it, I'm just stating my opinion of something that I'd prefer not to see, and that's exactly what speculation is: voicing opinions.

I also like Willow as a female professor name, definitely works as well!

shubham2207 May 20th, 2013 8:26 PM

Maybe gf doesn't go for dual type moves. But maybe they might go for new combination moves to make double/triple battle interesting.

Pokestick, good times. May 20th, 2013 9:20 PM

It might be possible that dual-type moves simply have one type for counting STAB, and one type for counting damage to the other Pokémon. Like, say, how Psyshock is special but "hits" as a physical attack.

Hikamaru May 20th, 2013 9:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake♫ (Post 7669597)
Completely agreed. As I stated already, it messes with STAB so badly. I mean, theoretically, if something was dual typed and the move matched that, I guess you could just say you got a x2 bonus instead of a x1.5 bonus. I guess it isn't that complicated, but it is just unnecessary if anything. Just let that aspect be please =P

Yeah, I totally agree with this. Having dual-typed moves can mess things up even more than before, cos it can amplify weaknesses even further than it is now. Also, STAB would be messed up for sure.

LycaNinja May 20th, 2013 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake♫ (Post 7669859)
...Did you read my second post. I made it pretty clear that they could do that, and even lined out a rather simple way they could go about and do it. Just because I'm personally against it doesn't mean I don't acknowledge that it can't happen. I'm definitely not denying that they can do it, I'm just stating my opinion of something that I'd prefer not to see, and that's exactly what speculation is: voicing opinions.

I also like Willow as a female professor name, definitely works as well!

I did read it but you sounded like you were talking it down on purpose... I meant they could redo much more than just the STAB mechanics so it all works... Maybe you only get one STAB, but a fire type and a fighting type can both STAB with Blaze Kick Fire/Fight move... Anything is possible...

I realize speculation is voicing opinions, but that's what I'm doing as well... But trying to keep people from disregarding things just because it breaks a pattern or changes the system up... Because that is a stupid mind set, you know?

Zorogami May 21st, 2013 1:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake♫ (Post 7669597)
As I stated already, it messes with STAB so badly. I mean, theoretically, if something was dual typed and the move matched that, I guess you could just say you got a x2 bonus instead of a x1.5 bonus. I guess it isn't that complicated, but it is just unnecessary if anything. Just let that aspect be please =P

I have to agree, dual typed moves just seem way to messy!
Especially if you consider how they would handle weaknesses/resistances
Let's say a move like Blaze Kick is both Fire and Fighting, how would it affect a Rock Pokemon?
It could either be SE if considered Fighting, but only not very effective if considered Fire

ilovejirachi123 May 21st, 2013 3:53 AM

im not sure if we've already talked about this but i kinda want to get off the topic of dual-moves cause its not gonna happen. anyway if u look at the region people have a guess of where the starting town will be but what do you think the biggining town will be. or maybe do u think it will be unlike any other game and make the start on a train u get dropped off in the region.

LycaNinja May 21st, 2013 4:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilovejirachi123 (Post 7670167)
im not sure if we've already talked about this but i kinda want to get off the topic of dual-moves cause its not gonna happen. anyway if u look at the region people have a guess of where the starting town will be but what do you think the biggining town will be. or maybe do u think it will be unlike any other game and make the start on a train u get dropped off in the region.

We've already talked about where we think the starting town is... We can't deny anything... They could literally make a Pokemon based on a literal turd... ANYTHING is possible... I don't know why people can't get that mind set...

Mithel_Celestia May 21st, 2013 5:22 AM

I don't understand what people mean by reworking STAB. Does it mean that they will lessen the boost value to ×0.25 so that 8× weakness from an attack will still be 4x damage, then that would also completely nerf how strong STAB attacks can get, so the boosts charts are still very messed up regardless of changes to the mechanics

Jake♫ May 21st, 2013 5:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithel_Celestia (Post 7670213)
I don't understand what people mean by reworking STAB. Does it mean that they will lessen the boost value to ×0.25 so that 8× weakness from an attack will still be 4x damage, then that would also completely nerf how strong STAB attacks can get, so the boosts charts are still very messed up regardless of changes to the mechanics

(This is the last thing I'm gonna say on this because we're getting redundant now =P) We have no idea honestly. We were talking about dual-typed moves would kind of mess with it, and how all the multipliers would be affected. We really have no idea what they'd do with it, and for the most part we don't really wanna see it happen =P They might make it work perfectly if it were to happen, but they could also just make it worse. Who knows?

On the topic of where the starting town is, I was thinking it was the town in the bottom center of the map. Just seems to appear like a starting area to me.

LycaNinja May 21st, 2013 6:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithel_Celestia (Post 7670213)
I don't understand what people mean by reworking STAB. Does it mean that they will lessen the boost value to ×0.25 so that 8× weakness from an attack will still be 4x damage, then that would also completely nerf how strong STAB attacks can get, so the boosts charts are still very messed up regardless of changes to the mechanics

Without changing any other mechanic, they could still make it work and not confuse people not wanting an extremely needed fix...

Say my Fire type Pokemon has Blaze Kick, retyped as a Fire/Fight type move... And I'm fighting your Normal type Pokemon... Using Blaze Kick I get the STAB bonus from it being a Fire type move and the SE of Normal being weak to Fighting type.

They could just make it like that... The best one is the one that factors in... So my Fighting type could also use Blaze Kick on your Grass type Pokemon, getting the Fighting STAB and the SE effect of Grass being weak to Fire...

Or they could go with a better and more complex working system that everyone hates at first, but later realize is better later on, then accept it...

Jake♫ May 21st, 2013 6:20 AM

Which is probably what would happen if this were to happen. I mean, no one loved the Physical/Special split when it first came out, and now mostly people have come to love it as it makes a lot of sense. So who knows really!

Okay one more thing on it I guess c;

shubham2207 May 21st, 2013 6:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LycaNinja (Post 7670251)
Without changing any other mechanic, they could still make it work and not confuse people not wanting an extremely needed fix...

Say my Fire type Pokemon has Blaze Kick, retyped as a Fire/Fight type move... And I'm fighting your Normal type Pokemon... Using Blaze Kick I get the STAB bonus from it being a Fire type move and the SE of Normal being weak to Fighting type.

They could just make it like that... The best one is the one that factors in... So my Fighting type could also use Blaze Kick on your Grass type Pokemon, getting the Fighting STAB and the SE effect of Grass being weak to Fire...

Or they could go with a better and more complex working system that everyone hates at first, but later realize is better later on, then accept it...

and what if ur fire/fight blaze kick hit my ferrothorn? Hw much damage will it inflict on ferro?

Pinkie-Dawn May 21st, 2013 6:30 AM

I'm still going by my theory on how the mechanics for a dual-type move will work: The move will only use its primary type, but will switch into its secondary type if its primary type is NVE against the opponent's Pokemon. If the Pokemon resists both types, then it'll result in being not very effective.

aonshinzo May 21st, 2013 6:36 AM

This is Gamefreak were talking about I doubt they will over complicate dual-type moves (if it happens...) It will probably something simple like picking which type you want the move to be in a situation.
Using Blaze Kick (Fire/Fighting) against Ferrothorn then an option will pop up to choose either Fire or Fighting or something like that

LycaNinja May 21st, 2013 6:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shubham2207 (Post 7670261)
and what if ur fire/fight blaze kick hit my ferrothorn? Hw much damage will it inflict on ferro?

Oy Vey!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twilight Sky (Post 7670274)
Assuming that this is about dual-type moves....well honestly, I wouldn't want to see that happen.

It's the previous post as well as much much more that can make dual-type moves more confusing than it is. Whilst on paper, it seems like something disastrous that might come out to be a positive thing, I honestly think that it might just be something that just isn't necessary/bad for long term. It would make moves unnecessarily complicated, and I'm just really hoping that past/current moves don't get re-typed. I don't even want competitive Pokemon to be more complicated than what it is currently. x_x;

Take Mega kick for example. It is a move that involves physical contact, and it would seem like a fighting move, so what if Mega Kick was a Normal/Fighting move, and how much damage would it inflict on steel types? I'm assuming neutral since one type is super-effective and the other isn't very effective, but still...

OY VEY!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinkie-Dawn (Post 7670273)
I'm still going by my theory on how the mechanics for a dual-type move will work: The move will only use its primary type, but will switch into its secondary type if its primary type is NVE against the opponent's Pokemon. If the Pokemon resists both types, then it'll result in being not very effective.

Thank you for thinking and not believing in the worse case scenario... I literally couldn't explain it easier than I had... But I'll still say it again...

The BEST would be what applies... A Fire/Fight attack hitting a Grass/Steel would be considered a Fire type attack, since that's x4 as a fire attack and x2 from Fighting is lower than Fire... Like I had just explained in the previous reply... Same applies to a Normal/Fighting move... Normal isn't effective... Fighting is... So Fighting wins... Even if a Normal type is using it... It gets the STAB of being a Normal type, and the SE from Fighting vs Steel...

This is just an example, hopefully they will do a much better system... Don't strain yourselves trying to come up with the formula... Just wait for GameFreak to talk about it if it even exists... And don't instantly think of the worst possible way to implement something...

aonshinzo May 21st, 2013 6:55 AM

Quote:

Thank you for thinking and not believing in the worse case scenario...
I know it's kinda irritating whenever people here a new feature that's drastically different for pokemon they automatically shun it.....

shubham2207 May 21st, 2013 7:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LycaNinja (Post 7670284)
Oh Vey!



OY VEY!



Thank you for thinking and not believing in the worse case scenario... I literally couldn't explain it easier than I had... But I'll still say it again...

The BEST would be what applies... A Fire/Fight attack hitting a Grass/Steel would be considered a Fire type attack, since that's x4 as a fire attack and x2 from Fighting is lower than Fire... Like I had just explained in the previous reply... Same applies to a Normal/Fighting move... Normal isn't effective... Fighting is... So Fighting wins... Even if a Normal type is using it... It gets the STAB of being a Normal type, and the SE from Fighting vs Steel...

This is just an example, hopefully they will do a much better system... Don't strain yourselves trying to come up with the formula... Just wait for GameFreak to talk about it if it even exists... And don't instantly think of the worst possible way to implement something...

then it would become a coverage move which would become very much op. It covers up ROCK,STEEL,ICE,GRASS,BUG,DARK,NORMAL..
Wow, 7 types..!! That would make metagame even more unstable..

Also, when did i produce a formula? I asked u the formula cuz that was your theory. So, u should have a formula to it. Why would we strain our minds fr something which is practically a impossible thing..!

Dual type moves are a bad idea imo..!

Pokestick, good times. May 21st, 2013 7:13 AM

Once again I stick to my 'one type that counts stab and one type for type effectiveness'-theory. It's very similar to what they're already doing with the special-physical split one some attacks, and it would do no harm to the system.

But you guys can keep going about how bad of an idea this is, sure.

RandomDSdevel May 21st, 2013 8:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suicune™ (Post 7669586)
I think moves should be left untouched, introducing dual type moves would completely change the way attacks work.

Hey, my game idea's making me think several generations ahead here! (I really wish that I could share more of this insanely awesome project, codenamed 'Aeonn' for the region's current name, with you guys, but I really can't since I'm going to ping Nintendo to see if they'll allow GameFreak to give me permission to extrapolate some official code from my current documentation. As such, I should probably stop discussing it at random; if any of you want to get on board with the project, maybe you can send me a personal message and we could eventually meet in person once I get the enterprise's parent company up and running…) Anyhow, I don't think that there's any need to get angry at my suggestion when all it really comes from is my opinion that the move-linking mechanic from the Pokémon Mystery Dungeon games should get some use in the main games in some way, shape, or form. To be honest, I personally think that dual-type moves would be really cool, especially if they foreshadowed or followed from the existence of triple-type Pokémon, but I bet that GemeFreak would phase them in very slowly, if at all.

Jake♫ May 21st, 2013 8:41 AM

I wouldn't disagree move linking in things like Double and Triple battles so it's just combining the two attacks. Plus, that'd make for some cool strategies that you'd be able to pull off. It'd probably just have cool visuals too. There'd have to be a set list of what could be combined though, because the games can't just magically combine everything and pull up an animation for it. That'd just be a ridiculously large number of animations to program in.

pedrito3_poke May 21st, 2013 8:43 AM

Well, let's not forget that this is a 'kids' game, so, even if GF introduces a dual type move system, it will never be too complicated.

RandomDSdevel May 21st, 2013 8:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorogami (Post 7670058)
I have to agree, dual typed moves just seem way to messy!
Especially if you consider how they would handle weaknesses/resistances
Let's say a move like Blaze Kick is both Fire and Fighting, how would it affect a Rock Pokemon?
It could either be SE if considered Fighting, but only not very effective if considered Fire

Maybe the effects would be combined like they are for when a singly-typed move attacks a doubly-typed Pokémon? In that case, the super-effectiveness that the Fighting type has against Rock-type Pokémon might get canceled out by the lack of effectiveness inherent in Fire-type moves used against Rock-type Pokémon, thereby making combined Fire-/Fighting-type moves like the updated Blaze Kick that you proposed, Zorogami, normally effective against Rock-type Pokémon. Then again, that required a lot of thought…maybe this isn't such a good idea after all? I suppose that move-merging could only create more-powerful existing moves with one type out of two different moves if it ever evolved out of move linking.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire May 21st, 2013 9:02 AM

That is messy, it'll be best to keep it at one type per move to avoid headaches.


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