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The Elite Four
As we know, Generation 5 changed the game with the Elite Four. Instead of the precedent set where you face them in a predetermined order, where each member became more difficult, you could choose the order you fought them in and they were all roughly leveled the same. Did you like that change and would you like to see it back for Generation 6? Would you prefer to go back to the old system? Is there some other way you'd like to see it play out?
I actually loved the change of being able to fight them in whatever order you liked. The one thing I wish they could have done (although I have no idea if it would have been possible) would have been to scale the levels of each member as you fought more of them, raising the levels, giving it the same difficulty level that the first 4 generations had. I'd love to see something like that, but if it wasn't possible, I'd be perfectly happy with Generation 5's system. |
I did like the ability of choosing the order of the Elite Four so you can prepare beforehand. But yes, I'd prefer if as the number of E4 member's you've defeated, the levels and difficulty goes up. I dunno, I just find that beating higher level pokemon to be more rewarding than the same leveled pokemon, you know? It's just, I found Gen 5's E4 disappointingly easy in that regard, because your pokemon will level up, but theirs don't, so... yeah.
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I always hated having the E4 scaled in a certain order. I think Gamefreak realized some players train to beat the Champion specifically, and by that point, the first member being five or more levels under made absolutely no sense. Thus, making the Champion a couple levels above everyone else and putting all E4 members at the level of the would-be final challenger does two things:
1) Gives the player control of how to best battle the E4 with his or her team, and 2) Makes each of the E4 battles equally difficult in challenge, forcing you to find weaknesses on each. I like it! Cyclone |
Battle wise, I would love if they went and did something crazy, like have the E4 gain puzzles before you battle them, or perhaps have their battles not right before the champion of the region, but during the plot. I would see it working like recommendations, and when you finally reach the Pokemon League, the champion of the region will be waiting for you.
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I like the idea of being able to hand-pick which order you would fight the Elite 4, although to be honest I wouldn't really mind if Gamefreak decided to change it back to the old system, I always have checked which Pokemon the Elite Four used beforehand anyway so it wouldn't matter to me haha.
I understand the point of making the levels of the Elite Four higher as you progressively beat them but it wouldn't make much logical sense having a member of the Elite Four have lower levels in one playthrough just because you picked it first but then have them have higher levels in someone else's playthrough just because they picked him/her last. That kind of leveling thing would be more logical in the not-picking-which-one-to-face Elite Four system. |
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Cyclone |
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Oh and I liked the thing they did in gen 5, however it was easy. |
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I really like choosing the order of the Elite Four,
but I want to go back to the old style, I didn't like it when each of them have the same level of pokemon. Like their highest level is 50, so when we go back to the old style. It'll be all better. |
Just to tack another question on to this: How difficult would you like the Elite Four to be? Did you find them too easy in previous game? Would you like their maximum levels to be boosted?
I thought that Hoenn pretty much had it right when it came to levels (ranging from high 40s to about 60), which wasn't a drastic scaling upwards, but it definitely gave the challenge a sense of difficulty compared to what Johto or Unova did for me. |
I think these types will be used in the elite 4 (exepting the champ)
Dragon Steel Fire Electric It's probably gonna be the complete opposite but there's my guess |
I loved being able to battle them in any order I want. After I found out what types they were using, being able to battle them in any order made the experience better because I would battle them in order from hardest for my team to beat to easiest.
As for difficulty I would like the second time you battle them even harder. B&W2 had it just about right with challenge mode and that is the difficulty in which I would like to see them return after you beat them once. |
They should make their Pokémon's levels higher too. What are they normally at, 50? If they're so elite, then they need higher levels on their Pokémon. By the way, can someone run by me the members of the Elite Four from each generation? I don't know all of them at the top of my head.
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I think challenging the Elite 4 in an order the player chose was a good way to mix things up and i actually liked it a lot! i thought it was fun, since i could decide what type i wanted to battle in what order.
I just wish they would change up the Elite 4 types a bit around, just to keep things fresh :D Like maybe not always have a Dragon type trainer, and Ghost and Dark are getting kinda old too... at least thats my opinion |
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All right there. :) Cyclone |
The only thing that goes against that is that Unova was pretty low leveled overall, as compared to either Hoenn or Sinnoh. I'm just hoping they go back to high 50s for the Elite Four again. Needs more challenge to it, especially since Unova was so easy to grind in with the presence of Audino.
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Elite 4 would need to have new types than earlier gen, just so we can see more different pokemons. The types not used yet in Elite 4 are: Flying, Thunder, Water, Normal, Steel, Rock and Grass.
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Cyclone |
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Although Steel/Rock/Ground/Fighting wouldn't be completely un-viable, but would definitely overlap a lot. |
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I loved A LOT B/W's Elite 4, not only because we had the choice to choose the order to beat them, but also for the really awesome animations. And not only that, I also loved how I had to deal with Team Plasma just before I could challenge the Champion... :3
TL;DR: The E4 in B/W was less boring than in the previous games, I hope GF will make it even better in X/Y. :] |
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Thus far we've seen Ice, Bug, Psychic, Fighting, Dark, Dragon, Poison, Fire, Ground, and Ghost. So hopefully they'll chose ones from the types not yet covered mentioned earlier in this thread. I'll like it if it were Grass, Rock, Flying, and Water.
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Yveltal could pass for a Flying type, actually.
Cyclone |
I loved the choose your path in the E4. It gave you a chance to strategize before the battle. I kinda also hope To see something like Water, Fire, Electric, Grass as the E4 and A champ with 12 types on his team. It would be an amazing battle.
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What I'd like to see would be the Elite 4 having more diverse team. I mean, the gym leaders already have a monotype team, which can be challenging, but given the right type they are not that hard anymore. I think the Elite 4 having teams with 2 base types would be a bit more challenging and fun! These types could either complement each other (Steel+Electric, Ghost+Dark, Posion+Grass) or make up for each other's weaknesses. It would add a spin to what we are used to and make it a greater challenge!
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I agree. Two primary types could make e4 more interesting. Or three, even, as things would be much harder to take down then! Like ground/rock/steel and water/grass/fire etc.
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I'd actually like that a lot. I mean I get sticking with the theme of monotypes for the sake of the Gyms and Elite Four matching up, but if they had more than one type it'd actually be more of a challenge, which would make them actually elite to me. If anything, I'd just love to keep the champion as not having a single type of Pokémon, since if they're the one who beat the Elite Four the it's unlikely they only used one type.
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As long as Normal and Flying get a place in the E4, I don't really mind what the others are really. Aside from Bug, which we got with Aaron, I think Normal and Flying would come across as types that you wouldn't expect to see as the focus of Elite trainers. I'd love it if those thoughts were proven wrong by bringing more light on them.
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I kinda don't want anything but the usual sets to be in the E4 this round. So any of the types from before (except dark since I want a dark gym).
Dragon, Fighting, Poison, Ice, Psychic, Ghost, Ground, or Fire (possibly already one). I don't like the idea of a Normal or Flying type E4....neither seem decent enough to be there. Normal is ok and by far the bane of my existance as Gyms, but Normal types just don't seem like end boss material. Flying is forever an add on type with only 1 exclusion and its a Legendary Pokemon so it can defy logic as much as it wants since all legends tend to defy all logic, but there is still no Main type Flying Type Pokemon. Flying is always a sub type just thrown on IMO. |
I think they could definitely throw in some new types, not always the same one's. Just because a type doesn't feel like "end boss" material, it doesn't mean it couldn't be one.
I think it all depends on the Pokemon the Elite 4 has, not just their type. Dragon should definitely be in there, since they usually make for the strongest Pokemon of every generation and have that epic feel to it...for the rest, i really don't mind seeing something new and unexpected. |
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Regardless of what they are now(even though it's somewhat opinion), that stance can always change and should really. Any type should have just as much of a chance to shine, even if some are, in general, 'weaker'. |
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How about a E4 of Dragon, Steel, Water, and Bug after the champions with specialized types (Alder I saw as being a Bug specialist due to his team being half bug.) |
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As for Alder, since the bug types disappear in his B2W2 team you can easily say he's a non-specialist. The bugs were just there to fill in the gap. His main Pokemon was Baufallant too so it would be more Normal if so. Though that would be cool. |
That's an awesome way to pay tribute to the past :) Although also what if the elite four became the elite five and included everything from the past as e4?
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I'd actually love a Normal type Elite Four member. Those gyms are honestly always so freaking annoying (Whitney's Miltank, Norman's Slaking), so it's almost worthy to see one in there. There's so many normal dual-types they could potentially include in this region's Pokédex to make a power team as well.
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Normal just doesn't sound prestigious, imo. Maybe better fit for champion but I can't see it thrown in somewhere in the E4. :x
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How did Bug sound prestigious in Sinnoh? I don't really think it makes much of a difference "how it sounds". Normal types have been proven to be some of the most difficult types in the games, so it's about due to be part of the Elite Four.
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I agree, Normal types may sound easy, but imo they are actually pretty hard to beat. I remember Norman's Gym in RSE being really tough, probably one of the toughest out of the game. Sure, they are weak to fighting, but that's their only weakness, and most normal pokemon can learn a bunch of different moves of almost any type!
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I guess. But just I'd rather if it was a well-known strong type. Gym leaders with normals just seem gimmicky to me, while bug... doesn't. XD;
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Well known strong type? Can you please define that. I don't think people are giving other types enough credit and, if we're going by the 'well known' thing, is it really fair just because we haven't seen an Elite use such Pokemon? If anything, that should make it quite obvious that others need a spotlight.
Like's already been mentioned, Normal-types have been proven to be annoying as all hell to beat in past gyms, so why not step it up and let an Elite put them at the top level? I was going to mention types like Flying again because I feel all types should have that chance to be among the best, but I'll just focus on Normal here because of how flat out obvious it is that they are just as much of a force to be reckoned with as any type we've seen being used by Elites. It's time to stop spamming the likes of Dark, Ghost, etc. and allow others a moment in the spotlight. Dragon is probably the only type that could believably be used more often in the E4 and be considered one of the top tiers in any region(even though I'm far from suggesting that they spam it too). Give the spammed ones a break. |
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Personally, i found Norman and his 2 Slakings in RS way harder to beat than half the Hoenn Elite 4... just thinking about a Elite 4 member with a Slaking around Lv 60 makes me shudder |
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QFT big time. Quote:
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Although no one from the E4 has used Steel-type Pokémon, the champion of RS, Steven used them, and it was really hard if you didn't have Pokémon that were strong against them. As for Normal-type Pokémon in the E4, I totally agree, of all the gyms in Hoenn, IMO Norman's was the hardest, with super-defense and Pokémon that could learn almost any attack. And I've never liked gyms or the E4 to be monotypes, that makes them way easier, just catch a Pokémon strong against that type, train him, defeat the gym/E4 member and deposit him in the box forever. They could all be like Blue, he is the only gym leader (or E4 Champion or even E4 although he wasn't a part of it) who doesn't specialize in any type of Pokémon.
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But still, I like the Gen. V way better then it was before. |
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I liked Unova's Elite Four in that you could choose which order you battled each one, but I would prefer if that were to happen again that the levels of each elite members didn't remain static.
Something I would like to see is a departure from specific types and a turn to a more strategic Elite Four with a mix of different Pokémon. For example: Elite Member 1: Specializes in Attack Elite Member 2: Specializes in Sp. Attack Elite Member 3: Specializes in Speed Elite Member 4: Specializes in HP, Defense, and Sp. Defense Champion: A well balanced and competitively challenging team It's nothing more than a pipe dream really, but I wouldn't actually mind if they broke away from each Elite member having a special type. |
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Cyclone |
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It would certainly make the Elite 4 more of a challenge considering you wouldn't know which Pokémon they'd have on them. Whereas with specific types, you can almost guess which Pokémon they'll be using before you battle them and you can be ready for it.
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Maybe if the game had a hard setting or something this could fit but I find it unlikely to go on normal game play, unless it was something toned down so the need wouldn't be this apparent and could be circumvented more easily. |
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I agree. Although I myself don't EV train, I'd love to have a challenge like this. Thinking about the kids though definitely you'd need the Hard and Normal modes. The normal one could be the same team, but without the same specialization, like less stat value for that specific stat (instead of 200 speed, have 120 speed). |
You don't really need to EV train for such an E4.
Get a Physical Attacker for the spDef E4 And a Special Attacker for the Def E4 Get some uber spdef or a calm mind user pokemon to counter the spAtk E4 (works also for the Def E4) And Curse/Bulk UP or epicly defensive poke for the Atk E4 (works also for the spDef E4) Also, there are a lot of status moves (like stealth rock, leech seed, ..Etc) and some damage-dealingm oves (like Foul Play, Seismic Toss, ... etc) that don't require EV training. |
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It's more likely they'll know about the type advantage but they won't care for the stats part of the game, they'll maybe take a glance at it and start using moves that favor that stats, but nothing deep and/or strategic about it. Pokemon is a game for the casual gamers, while it does have the more hardcore parts (Competitive Battling, RNG and it's setup) they're optional and depending on whether you frequent websites and read guides on the game, you may not even know about these parts. And now about the strategies you mentioned: - Get {Stat}er Pokemon: Kids would likely get Pokemon for the rule of cute and/or the rule of cool, not practicality or stats. - Move Strategies: Strategy more advanced than "Use a par/brn/slp/psn move and then keep attacking" is rare. This is a business, they focus the game to be more attractive to the target audience, that's why the puzzles are usually easy and the battling scene can be done so casually - save from a few trainers like Morimoto and Cynthia were in BW -, the only way this suggestion could be done would be bumping the difficulty of the whole game - because if you spend the entire game beating trainers that have random Pokemon or a single type when it comes one that is actually specialized in a way they can have a diverse team with a more competitive movepool you'd be lost -, maybe if the game had a hard setting on ... |
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And IV training is just mass breeding; the manhours that take to do this aren't going to do wonders on holding the attention of kids. But I dunno, I could be just generalizing. |
Gen 5's method was much better in my opinion. I liked having the choice of who I wanted to face when. The old method wasn't bad, though, I just believe it was too linear for my liking.
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I hadn't given it that much thought, but I wouldn't mind if the Elite 4 was presented in Gen 6 the same way as in Gen 5, although to be honest I'd be equally fine with it if it went back to the 'standard' way, 4 in a row. Types aside, if you were high enough level to beat one Elite 4 member, you were high enough to beat them all (in Gen 5)- which is fine! Though I'm also fine with battling through 4 trainers, each tougher than the next. I remember the first time I took on the League in Ruby and how terrified I was when he sent out his level 55 Salamence. Somehow, I just think there's a greater sense of achievement when you beat the 4 when they're organised in a linear way- but that's just me.
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I definitely liked generation five's method, although the static level thing was kind of iffy to me. I mean, I guess it makes sense so that all four of them are considered equal, while the champion is on his/her own level, but I don't really like that. I'd rather have the top five trainers be ranked, not have four tied for second and then a champion. Keep the choice mechanic, but give us some level curving.
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If I may... I'm a teenager, and me and my little brother both play pokemon very seriously. My brother does know about ev's, and he actually uses them more than I do. I don't think you guys who are talking about ev's and how kids don't recognize them realize this, in my experience with my brother and his friends, kids do battle competitively and do care about stats and ev's. just saying.
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Generation 5's was cool I guess because it was different but in all honesty the other system was far far superior, it's the Pokemon League so I want there to be suspense and a challenge and Generation 5's method voided that substantially. I'm confident that the old system will come back though. One type of middle ground that might be cool is to actually have an Elite Six with the 1st and 4th member static but the 2nd and 3rd depend on what door you enter after the 1st and 2nd Elites, a la Norman's gym, I think this would be pretty cool actually. Also Elite predictions:
1st-Water 2nd-Fire 3rd-Rock 4th-New Type xdddd |
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I really did not like the way the Elite Four was set up in BW. I would prefer if they went back to the old style in the new games. |
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Personally, I liked Generation 5's Elite 4 set up, cause honestly the old system felt kind of frustrating, I liked being able to choose, I myself still felt that feeling of achievement after beating each one even if I could choose which to go after, I want gen 5's system to stay, it was still intense but got rid of the frustration the old system brought.
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I'd actually like them to completely overhaul the whole Pokémon League. To me it has grown terribly stale, especially the Gyms.
Why are they even called Gyms, it's so uncool. I'd still like there to be a number of trials you have to bypass before you're invited to challenge some kind of Pokémon Champion. It's a game mechanic that works, and it also functions as a checkpoint-system for our reference throughout the journey. But they could make it infinitely more interesting if they scrapped the whole organized-sports image that I associate with the Gyms and the Elite Four. Instead there should be a number (6?) of Pokémon Masters living solitarily in hard-to-reach places throughout the region, only accompanied by their Pokémon and nature. They should all have a full team of six Pokémon and be awesome. It wouldn't hurt if you encountered some of them beforehand either, giving their character some depth. After you have beaten them all you are invited, per letter, to face the Pokémon Champion in his/her personal sanctuary. My point is that they could make each of these trials unique, interesting and exciting if they would only deviate a little from the formula they've been using for each Pokémon game up to this day. And the changes would be mostly aesthetical really. In addition to this there should be a huge festival and Pokémon Championship in which you fight in knockout tournaments. Here you would encounter mostly new trainers, but also trainers relevant to the story, as well as trainers from previous installments of Pokémon; Gym Leaders, Elite Four members, rivals etc. You know, this festival is the real deal, everyone wants to take part. Of course, you would face a new batch of trainers each time you enter, preventing it from getting boring and predictable, and making leveling Pokémon late-game more exciting. The Battle Frontier could be even another thing, or perhaps part of this festival. |
Although that all sounds like an awesome addition and revamp, I really don't see any sort of revamp of the system in the foreseeable future. For starters, changing the entire basis of you you enter the Pokémon League from all regions past probably wouldn't hold up to standards logistically in the Pokémon World. Although I think some things definitely could use some more depth, I don't think changing the entire layout of the games is really practical.
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I want the elite 4 to not be type specific
I want the elite for to be mixed types, with perfect EVs movesets natures & held items Same with the champion So that when I get past them I feel like I've accomplished something. Cause right now it's just a damn joke. |
Having set types for the Elite Four makes it all that little easier to defeat them, it would be interesting to have a mixture of all types so that every ground is covered and more tactical planning is required.
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But i don't think they would make them all non type specific, as that would be too much of a change. I guess they could make them 2 typed at least, so that one type can cover the other type's weakness(es)...that would make it more interesting at least. |
I agree with it being at least two types rather than one. Half of their team can be one type, and the other half is radically different. Also they're signature Pokemon can be both of those types.
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They absolutely should have a full team of 6 yes, it's astounding that they don't as it is lol And then yeah AT LEAST 2 types. I still think they should come across as legitimate trainers with a full set of 6 different pokemon but yeah at least 2 kinds would be an improvement. Cause they're the "elite four" realistically all a trainer would ever be is a chump using all 1 type. It could work if they had weather based teams for the elite four Like maybe Elite Four #1 : Sandstorm team : Tyranitar, Excadrill, Lucario, Empoleon, Steelix, Garchomp Elite Four #2 : Drought team : Ninetales, Venusaur, Rhypherior, Tangrowth, Exeggutor, Charizard Elite Four #3 : Rain team : Politoed, Kingdra, Ludicolo, Jolteon, Bronzong, Ferrothorn Elite Four #4 : Hail team : Abomasnow, Weavile, Mamoswine, Cloyster, Jellicent, Reniculus Champion : Overpowered legendary squad Arceus (Fire), Rayquaza, Mewtwo (Awakened/Mewthree), Genesect (Shock drive), Kyurem, Giratina All 5 of these teams they would equip with good held items, ideal natures & EVs, and great movesets with surprise coverage moves included. Also the ideal abilities to capitalize on the weathers and whatnot. Some members of those weather teams might not make sense at 1st glance, but they do if you think about it for a minute :D |
I do actually like the weather theme, although the Champion is a little ridiculous. The Champion wouldn't ever have the god of Pokémon on their team, let alone legendaries that typical are considered to be "there's only one of these", especially since you're the one that's supposed to go out and capture them =P
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I do think if there was a weather themed Elite Four, people would immediately jump to the RS Remake hints.
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I like the idea of having a weather themed pokeleague, but i think this is pretty unlikely.
After all Pokemon is primarily designed for kids, not competitive players, and having them change the whole concept of the league doesn't seem like something would do. |
I always thought it would be kool if you had to go find the elite four and battle them like at there home town or just out in the pokemon world. Make it a little more relistic besides haveing the elite four wait around on you
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I guess they're always waiting around because it's their job, plus they tend to have the Pokémon League in just one location. However, having them varied around a bit more would definitely be interesting. Maybe even if the Pokémon League itself was a puzzle that you had to get through to reach the members of the Elite Four that'd be pretty cool!
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Giving the Elite 4 Puzzles sounds like a nice idea to me, they just would have to be pretty hard to make it interesting
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1.Normal 2.Pokemon Master If you pick Normal you get the kid mode game, you pick Pokemon Master you get the beast mode weather elite four and legitimately challenging gym leaders & everything |
i wish there was a pokemon league like in the anime instead of the elite, if the trainers will be random i think it will be more challenging a fun
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It would definitely make the league more challenging and have a pretty "realistic" vibe to it. Rebattling the Elite 4 would be more fun as well, as the prior tournament would (almost) always be different than the one before that! |
it maybe a small detail, but i would like to see a crowd watching us(neither its a pokeleague or elite four i still would like to see it), i really like crowd in PWT, and i believe people want to watch the 5 best trainers in the region challenged and battle someone.
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If there was some sort of tournament implemented that lead to the Elite Four, it'd be cool to have people watching that. As for the actual Elite Four battles I'd have to agree that it'd be weird having a crowd in that. It is more of a secretive battle set anyways, at least that's how I interpreted it.
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As long as the E4 has the right balance between their level of OP in Gen I and their underleveled teams in every Gen since, I don't care which order we fight them in. |
Elite Four should have themes instead of types. Sandstorm, Sun, Rain, Hail, then Trick Room.
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I hated the extremely easy Elite Four of B/W/B2/W2. I'd like to see a more traditional Elite Four, where you have to face them in ascending order of difficulty.
As for types, I'd like to see: Elite Four 1: Normal Elite Four 2: Steel Elite Four 3: Dark Elite Four 4: Dragon As for the actual members of the Elite Four, I'd like to see something a bit different. Specifically, the new Elite Four needs to have a real background. Maybe the whole thing could be a conspiracy, and the Elite Four could turn out to be homicidal maniacs, like in the manga. |
Since the games are catered to kids primarily, I severely doubt that would ever happen (although I would love to see a more serious Pokémon game, like I would love it). I do like your typings for the most part though (maybe not a Dragon final member since that's kind of getting overdone =P).
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Jake is probably right, since kids are still the primary customers, i don't think they'll be including a homicidal Elite 4. I love the idea though of there being a twist to it, like in B/W and N's Castle appearing out of nowhere. Would make the whole thing more interesting and memorable!
As far as types go, I'd love to see some new ones being included. Dragon is been overdone in my opinion, and so has Fighting and Ghost probably as well. I Like the idea of a Normal and/or stell type E4 member, i personally would love to see a Fire and a Poison type |
Maybe an E4 is actually the real leader of the Evil team but we don't learn that until post game, having only seen the admins of it lead the group. She or he could be like Giovanni in that aspect only without seeing them before the battle. Or they could make her appear before...that'll be interesting if that happened.
For types it could be Water, Electric, Grass, and Flying, types we've not seen in any E4 barring the champions (as Wallace has water). |
i liked what they did on BW/B2W2...
I think they should mix-up what they did on the previous games with the BW series meaning you will have the ability to pick who you want to fight first with there levels gradually increasing. They can do this by making the next E4 you are facing say "I saw your match with E1, seeing how strong you are i have prepared my strongest pokemons" or something like that. |
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