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-   -   Sports The Football Discussion Thread! (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=299018)

Gabri June 26th, 2014 5:45 PM

The US have never been strong in football. The fact that it's not a relatively popular sport in the country doesn't help, either. Now, it can't be said that they outright suck because they lost 1-0 to one of the strongest national teams in the world. Losing doesn't always mean you suck. Either way, it's not from a couple of matches that you determine whether a team is good or not; how many times, mainly in the National Cups (the FA Cup, most of all), do you see teams from lower divisions beat teams that are top in their countries?

Germany's position as second was pretty much justified by the thrashing they gave us on the first match (the fact that we had a defender sent off in the first 15 minutes didn't help, but still) and the only teams that I see, in this moment, to be able to give them a run for their money are France and Brazil (maybe Argentina too). And the US didn't beat the fourth-ranked team (which, for some weird reason, is Portugal) by an inch. It is good for the US to even have qualified for the next round considering that they were in a strong group and were never strong themselves.

Winning a World Cup isn't just done like that to "hey look, we're not bad at all!". Look at the Netherlands, they've been having stong squads for the last 30 years or so, and not even a squad mainly composed by Ajax's Total Football team (which included Johan Cruyff) have won it in the 70's. Neither did the Euro 88' winning squad (including Gullit and van Basten) win it in 1990.

Maybe 'Murrica can pull something funny against Belgium (which I doubt, Belgium has a lot of great players), but I can't see them going past Argentina if they do (because Argentina will pound Switzerland).

Sir Codin June 26th, 2014 8:10 PM

That's the big problem. America sucks at soccer and needs to get better, because some of us are actually tired of losing.

We focus so much on American Football rugby-for-pussies, basketball, and baseball that it's no wonder our team sucks. If we channeled even half the energy we put into those sports into soccer, we might actually stand a chance at getting to the semi-finals for once in almost 90 years. And even then we'll still be losers because that's how it works; the guys with the cup are the winners, everyone else are losers.

Tl;dr: This is the problem:
http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/sports_cheat_sheet.png

Ryoutarou June 26th, 2014 8:47 PM

A huge problem with the game catching on in the US is that it doesn't lend itself very well to TV marketing. The US is a country whose programs and broadcasts absolutely thrive on commercials - the average American football game, on TV, is about two hours long and only somewhere in the neighborhood of 11 minutes is actual game time. The rest of that two hour black is dedicated to replays and, not surprisingly, commercials. With there being no time outs in soccer, you're left with a sport that only provides a very short window for advertisements during a 90 minute game.

Quote:

And even then we'll still be losers because that's how it works; the guys with the cup are the winners, everyone else are losers.
I'm not even sure this would do anything for the sport, winning often doesn't guarantee popularity. As an example, my favorite sports team, the San Antonio Spurs, are absolutely underrated by the American media. This is a team that has won five championships in 17 years, that regularly finishes in the top four teams during the regular season, that has only finished out of the top five once in 15 seasons, basically the most successful American sports team by winning percentage, and yet they're criminally underrepresented by media here.

Other teams that don't win as much get much more notoriety because their players have these loud and boisterous personalities, which I think is what the broadcasters and the people in general want. I've always felt that soccer doesn't allow for this as regularly as other sports and I think that, among other reasons, does a lot to make it difficult for potential fans to identify with players and find some sort of connection.

But I think the biggest problems is just that advertisers can't shill their products out as often in this game as they can with other popular sports in the US.

Aeroblast June 26th, 2014 11:06 PM

World Cup is an extremely difficult competition to win; you're competing between dozens of powerhouses who have developed as a footballing nation in the span of several decades. Even Spain, who won last 2 Euros and the last World Cup crashed out of the group stages after second matchday.

On a more immediate note though: USA can beat Belgium. Belgium have great individual players but they struggle to work as a unit.

Hitsushiro June 27th, 2014 1:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katalyst (Post 8319271)
The US have never been strong in football. The fact that it's not a relatively popular sport in the country doesn't help, either. Now, it can't be said that they outright suck because they lost 1-0 to one of the strongest national teams in the world. Losing doesn't always mean you suck. Either way, it's not from a couple of matches that you determine whether a team is good or not; how many times, mainly in the National Cups (the FA Cup, most of all), do you see teams from lower divisions beat teams that are top in their countries?

Germany's position as second was pretty much justified by the thrashing they gave us on the first match (the fact that we had a defender sent off in the first 15 minutes didn't help, but still) and the only teams that I see, in this moment, to be able to give them a run for their money are France and Brazil (maybe Argentina too). And the US didn't beat the fourth-ranked team (which, for some weird reason, is Portugal) by an inch. It is good for the US to even have qualified for the next round considering that they were in a strong group and were never strong themselves.

Winning a World Cup isn't just done like that to "hey look, we're not bad at all!". Look at the Netherlands, they've been having stong squads for the last 30 years or so, and not even a squad mainly composed by Ajax's Total Football team (which included Johan Cruyff) have won it in the 70's. Neither did the Euro 88' winning squad (including Gullit and van Basten) win it in 1990.

Maybe 'Murrica can pull something funny against Belgium (which I doubt, Belgium has a lot of great players), but I can't see them going past Argentina if they do (because Argentina will pound Switzerland).

Brazil will lose against Chile, and wouldn't have a chance against Germany. Argentina will draw 0-0 against Switzerland and have Messi save them in the 95th minute. Both teams are overrated.

Nathan June 28th, 2014 8:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitsushiro (Post 8320525)
Brazil will lose against Chile, and wouldn't have a chance against Germany. Argentina will draw 0-0 against Switzerland and have Messi save them in the 95th minute. Both teams are overrated.

I think Argentina can beat Switzerland. Did you see the match against France?

Ivysaur June 28th, 2014 8:55 AM

Did you see Argentina's match against Iran? They were disgustingly hideous and only won because Messi pulled a Messi.

Meanwhile, go Chile!

Pepperton June 28th, 2014 9:58 AM

Neymar has had so many chances, and hasn't converted on any of them. Right now, it looks like a stunning upset. Chile has the momentum, energy, and defensive prowess to take over a nervy Brazil team. Will certainly be an interesting half hour, but the advantage is slightly in Chile's corner. All dependent on if Brazil can up their tempo and get some rhythm back.

Ivysaur June 28th, 2014 10:07 AM

This Brazilian team would be an embarrassment for their legendary squads. It would be truly sad if they won just because of home advantage.

Ryoutarou June 28th, 2014 10:11 AM

Yeah, if this is the way Brazil are going to be playing, they don't deserve to make it through to the next round. I've been impressed by Chile's game since the start of the second half. (though Hulk really wants to make up for that disallowed goal)

Nathan June 28th, 2014 11:12 AM

Well Brazil goes to the next round. I really feel bad for Jara though.

Hitsushiro June 28th, 2014 11:12 AM

Didn't like the game much, at least second half was relatively decent. Because by the 2nd time Brazil slowed down and allowed Chile to actually play football.

Brazil are a disgrace. It is probably the nerves and the pressure as it is on their home soil, but that's not how you play the game. They'll probably luckball it next round against Uruguay/Colombia as well, but I can't see them beating France/Germany.

They shouldn't have made it past the group stage, really. They ♥♥♥♥ed everyone over with the penalty against Croatia (they should have gone through). Sad, very sad, but expected...

Anyways Brazil did have some chances especially in the first half, but Neymar has been screwed up by Barcelona and thinks he can walk into the goal. He should have taken the risk, even toe bashing the ball. But no... Hulk was awesome, we happened to witness him on a good day. But as a team Brazil aren't good enough. Game was ♥♥♥♥ 'cause they didn't allow anyone to play the ball.

Aeroblast June 28th, 2014 11:15 AM

There are all-time great strikers who played for Brazil - Pele, Romario, Ronaldinho, R9...

And then there's Fred and Jo. Even their names sound like cartoon characters.

Hitsushiro June 28th, 2014 2:10 PM

I'm not gonna lie, I was going for Uruguay the entire tournament. I always like the way they play. But Colombia very much deserved it! They were amazing. Not only James, but as a team, especially with ball distribution. Unlike a certain team (I wonder), they actually play the ball. And they do it well, as seen by their results. Good luck to them, and I hope Brazil doesn't get lucky next time.

I think not having Suarez really made the team take two steps back. Whilst they do have Cavani, I think Suarez is more reliable to actually score goals. But it would have been a different story if they started attacking from the beginning, and not the 70th minute.

bobandbill June 29th, 2014 4:31 AM

That was quite the goal from James. He is having a good tournament - five goals four assists or something like that?

Pity for Chile, they sure came close there. Their first two penalties though were not good.

Banz June 29th, 2014 5:36 AM

48 more days left to the start of the season. :|

Ryoutarou June 29th, 2014 10:09 AM

Argh. So Mexico are out at the second round for the sixth time in a row. I'm really upset that the last goal shouldn't have been a penalty, but I guess it makes up for that missed one in the first half. After playing a fantastic first half, I felt like Mexico had to play catch up quite a lot during the second half and just really let themselves go as soon as Sneijder made that goal. It's such a shame, after a horrible qualifying campaign, Mexico had a fantastic run of games during this World Cup.

Pepperton June 29th, 2014 10:41 AM

Another really exciting game today, of which I thought Mexico had surely clinched minutes before Sneijder's pinpoint perfect goal that even the on-fire Ochoa couldn't defend. Afterwards, the penalty kick - another perfect goal; even if Ochoa had guessed right, there wasn't much chance for a deflection or block. That said, a well-played game by Mexico and a hopeful way to bow out of the tournament.

Hitsushiro June 29th, 2014 5:47 PM

Both teams deserved to go through. This match could have been the Grand Final, really... sucks to see Mexico go, they were amazing all tournament.

I did go for Netherlands though because I believe only they/France can beat Germany. (yep)

Gabri June 29th, 2014 5:57 PM

Netherlands' current squad have great strikers, but their defence seems really shaky and they can't seem to hold the ball for too long, trying to send it to their strikers as fast as possible. They can't beat Germany. France can, though. (Never thought I'd say this, considering how France has been lately, but they don't seem the same ego-dominated squad they were in recent years)

I feel bad for Mexico, and even worse for Ochoa. That guy will sign for a top team after this, guaranteed. Costa Rica have done nice as well, but the Dutch will give a serious challenge to the good and consistent defense they've shown lately.

Also there's an almost certainty of there being a France vs Germany match next round. And I'm cheering for the French in that case.

Pepperton June 29th, 2014 7:10 PM

Man, Costa Rica have a lot of heart. Started watching halfway into extra time, and their squad looked exhausted on the field, and I mean you could visually tell how tired they were. Ball-handling was sloppy, movement was off, everything was slow. And yet, somehow, they managed to hang in there, and pull off an astounding win after penalty kicks. Great win for them, but I don't see them ending up with the same result against the Dutch.

Ochoa will definitely get a lot of attention after this WC, he played brilliantly!

Eruption June 30th, 2014 3:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryoutarou (Post 8319510)
A huge problem with the game catching on in the US is that it doesn't lend itself very well to TV marketing. The US is a country whose programs and broadcasts absolutely thrive on commercials - the average American football game, on TV, is about two hours long and only somewhere in the neighborhood of 11 minutes is actual game time. The rest of that two hour black is dedicated to replays and, not surprisingly, commercials. With there being no time outs in soccer, you're left with a sport that only provides a very short window for advertisements during a 90 minute game.

I'm not even sure this would do anything for the sport, winning often doesn't guarantee popularity. As an example, my favorite sports team, the San Antonio Spurs, are absolutely underrated by the American media. This is a team that has won five championships in 17 years, that regularly finishes in the top four teams during the regular season, that has only finished out of the top five once in 15 seasons, basically the most successful American sports team by winning percentage, and yet they're criminally underrepresented by media here.

Other teams that don't win as much get much more notoriety because their players have these loud and boisterous personalities, which I think is what the broadcasters and the people in general want. I've always felt that soccer doesn't allow for this as regularly as other sports and I think that, among other reasons, does a lot to make it difficult for potential fans to identify with players and find some sort of connection.

But I think the biggest problems is just that advertisers can't shill their products out as often in this game as they can with other popular sports in the US.

You've probably hit the nail on the head in terms of needing personalities in US sports. At the very least they like to focus on the top, top players if it isn't explainable to personality. Sure Tim Duncan and Tony Parker are two of the greatest players in the sport, but for some reason they don't fit ESPN's obsession like LeBron or Kobe so the Spurs get less focus regardless of their successes. Come to think of it I've seen a lot of American adverts when watching NBA games online and I'd be hard pressed to remember one with a Spurs player, it's all Blake Griffin, James Harden and the two I mentioned before.

That said when I was watching the NBA draft the other day and ESPN had a little World Cup roundup, they had the 'Degree Moment Of The Groupstage' or something like that so I'd say they can apply their advertising in time. I'm thinking they could use cooling breaks in the MLS as opportunities for advertising.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeroblast (Post 8319648)
On a more immediate note though: USA can beat Belgium. Belgium have great individual players but they struggle to work as a unit.

Totally agree and I think from what I've seen so far, I'd actually say USA are more likely to win that tie. I don't see them getting any further after that though.

Judge Mandolore Shepard June 30th, 2014 12:53 PM

Well the Germany vs Algeria match is scoreless at the half. Hopefully Germany will beat Algeria. It would certainly be revenge for Germany then since the last time Germany faced Algeria in a World Cup match was back in 1982 where Algeria won. Course the winner of this match will be going on to face France in the quarter finals.

Edit: Well after going into extra time Germany ended up beating Algeria 2 to 1. So one of the quarter final matches is Germany vs France.

Pepperton June 30th, 2014 6:26 PM

Expected results there, but the heart shown by Algeria was seriously great to watch. In fact, I badly wanted them to persevere, but Germany, in the end, was much too strong. They are valid contenders, maybe even more so than the Dutch, who had a difficult time dispatching Mexico. Picked Germany to get through that QF.

All in for USA tomorrow! The Dallas Cowboys are holding a free watch party in the AT&T stadium. I wish I could go, it would be epic to watch the game on that gigantic screen they have.

Banz July 1st, 2014 8:16 AM

Liverpool sign Adam Lallana

http://assets2.lfcimages.com/uploads/3401__6764__lallana1000b_513X307.jpg

http://assets.lfcimages.com/uploads/4450__2825__lallana1000c_513X307.jpg

http://assets.lfcimages.com/uploads/9885__5464__lallana1000e_513X307.jpg

http://assets.lfcimages.com/uploads/2209__3697__lallana1000g_513X307.jpg


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