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-   -   6th Gen New Type Confirmed: Fairy! (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=302996)

L0RD G3NGAR July 18th, 2013 8:41 AM

Yes, but it the fairy attack could also be lower, because you have not included the Sp attack of gardevoir and the sp defence of hdragon. This means that it could be se to both dragon and dark.

Esper July 18th, 2013 9:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shrew (Post 7741902)
I do not believe Pikachu will become fairy type. Pikachu has been a mascot of the series ever since, not to mention a textbook example of a classic electric type, and making a huge change to it seems unlikely.

Yes, it would be completely useful competitively, but I just don't see every Fairy (Egg Group) member becoming fairies. I think the fact that the trailer debutting fairies showcased Gardevoir--who was never in the Fairy (Egg Group)--is Gamefreak's way of hinting to us that fairies will not be as restricted to the current egg group as we think

I do find it very probable that Pikachu will learn fairy type moves.

While I agree, and don't think Pikachu will be given a second typing, I think it would be a great way for GF to show people it's still innovative if it did. They'd surprise us, and I think they need to give us more surprises. The Fairy-type itself it pretty big, but changing their mascot even slightly would be something even bigger.

Xander Olivieri July 18th, 2013 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamebot (Post 7742247)
Yes, but it the fairy attack could also be lower, because you have not included the Sp attack of gardevoir and the sp defence of hdragon. This means that it could be se to both dragon and dark.

My calculations require gardevoir's 125 sp atk and hydreigon's 90 sp def. which may be why my numbers are so different. I'm about to start compiling my list.


EDIT:

Going to use Bulbapedia's example since its written in a way I can read and it was the first thing I could get my hands on.
http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/4/47/DamageCalc.pnghttp://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/3/32/ModifierCalc.png

Assuming Level is 50 for both.

x4:
Damage=(((2x50+10)/250)x(125/90)x60+2)xModifier(5.10,6)
(5.10,6)=Modifier=1.5x4x1x1x(0.85;1.00)

Damage = ((110/250)x1.3888888x60+2)x(5.10,6)
Damage = (.44x1.3888888888x60+2)x(5.10,6)
Damage = (.6111111x60+2)x(5.10,6)
Damage = 38.6666666666666(5.10,6)
197.2, 232
197,232


x2:Damage=(((2x50+10)/250)+(125/90)x60+2)xModifier(2.55,3)
(2.55,3)=Modifier=1.5x2x1x1x(0.85;1.00)

(98,116)

L0RD G3NGAR July 18th, 2013 12:59 PM

Try 117 sp attack and 85 sp defence those are the lowest possiable stats.

Xander Olivieri July 18th, 2013 1:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamebot (Post 7742499)
Try 117 sp attack and 85 sp defence those are the lowest possiable stats.

The videos actually do unaffected stats. No IVs and no EVs. Its the base and that's it.

From what I can tell, initially I was wrong. Now that I get to sit and do the math myself rather than using the calculators presented on Smogon. It is true that you cannot deal 100 points of damage, though as I had said, that Sylveon had to be a low level, at least half that of Hydreigon to do that kinda damage with a base of 60.

The calculation the guy gave was much simpler than what I just did, though I read the harder one easier than his.

Though I have no idea what his "Initial Damage" thing is so I have no idea how he had gotten the numbers he used.

Using the minimums anyway...x4 is 195-230
x2 is 97-115

Really the minimums barely changed anything...though it does kill of the ability to use that guy's calculation to reverse check it.

EDIT: Applying the guy's formula to the one above....You can't get the numbers I got but it doesn't look like I missed anything. I don't know who is using the right formula now....

Using another Smogon one...This one is so much easier to use omg.

Using Bug since they haven't updated Fairy.
0 SpA (custom) (Move 1) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD (custom): 96-114 (63.15 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(96, 96, 98, 98, 98, 102, 102, 102, 104, 104, 108, 108, 108, 110, 110, 114)

Attacker Info
Bug
SpA=125
Bug Special 60 Bp
Lv 50

Defender Info
Grass
HP=92
SpD=90
lv 50

0 SpA (custom) (Move 1) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD (custom): 192-228 (126.31 - 150%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(192, 192, 196, 196, 196, 204, 204, 204, 208, 208, 216, 216, 216, 220, 220, 228)

Attacker Info
Bug
SpA=125
Bug Special 60 Bp
Lv 50

Defender Info
Grass/Psychic
HP=92
SpD=90
lv 50

0 SpA (custom) (Move 1) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD (custom): 84-100 (55.26 - 65.78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(84, 84, 84, 84, 88, 88, 88, 88, 88, 88, 96, 96, 96, 96, 96, 100)

Attacker Info
Bug
SpA=125
Bug Special 60 Bp
Lv 32 to 34

Defender Info
Grass/Psychic
HP=92
SpD=90
lv 50



As far as I can see only thing that rings true is x2 damage cannot do 100 points of damage to them. It has to be x4 to deal 100 points of damage. So it looks as if Fairy is SE to Dark with this. I find it hard to believe myself and I just did the math. Gardevoir must have been a fairly low level which is a little unprecedented.



So Fairy:
Weak to Poison
Strong against Dark, Dragon, Ice

Unconfirmed:
Weak to Steel
Strong against Fighting
Resisted by Fire/Psychic
Resists nothing
Immune Dragon



Still highly doubt the last one as its too much.

L0RD G3NGAR July 18th, 2013 2:40 PM

What is the formula for the actual damage? Because Gardevoirs Sp attack is not known unless it's a lvl 50 or 100
And for it to do 96 damage how does that prove that it's SE to dark type too.

Xander Olivieri July 18th, 2013 3:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamebot (Post 7742622)
What is the formula for the actual damage? Because Gardevoirs Sp attack is not known unless it's a lvl 50 or 100
And for it to do 96 damage how does that prove that it's SE to dark type too.

The base Stat determines everything, including their growth. The base stat never changes despite their level so it can be used to get their current Sp. Attack number.

96 and 100 (the latter is what proves the SE to dark) are points to focus your calculations on. With it you can assemble the other information and make accurate attempts to find what the base power was or do accurate damage counts to see how they play.

100 cannot be done on a x2 setting so Hydreigon taking 100 Damage from a Fairy attack means it is doubly weak to it.

L0RD G3NGAR July 18th, 2013 4:04 PM

But that doesnt prove much. If it was Se to both dark and dragon shouldn't it have done more than 100 damage?

Xander Olivieri July 18th, 2013 4:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamebot (Post 7742691)
But that doesnt prove much. If it was Se to both dark and dragon shouldn't it have done more than 100 damage?

We don't know the level but I can easily pin point a level reversing it. I think it was between 32-34 as those three levels 32, 33, and 34 have an 88 to 100 range. 32 having a minimum of 88 and 34 having a max around 100.

As I said 100 Damage can only be done by a Pokemon with x4 damage.

L0RD G3NGAR July 18th, 2013 4:42 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by XanderO (Post 7742702)
We don't know the level but I can easily pin point a level reversing it. I think it was between 32-34 as those three levels 32, 33, and 34 have an 88 to 100 range. 32 having a minimum of 88 and 34 having a max around 100.

As I said 100 Damage can only be done by a Pokemon with x4 damage.

Hmm i see Attachment 68864 so like this?

Iceshadow3317 July 19th, 2013 7:53 AM

I was thinking about this last night when I was going through a list of possible old pokemon that could be made Fairy.

What about Illumise and Volbeat. They are both only bug type, but they have always slightly reminded me of fairies.

SpitfireYoshi July 19th, 2013 8:55 AM

That's seems possible....


Me want a Fairy Dragon!!

Belldandy July 19th, 2013 9:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman3317 (Post 7743401)
What about Illumise and Volbeat. They are both only bug type, but they have always slightly reminded me of fairies.

That makes sense to me :) I wouldn't mind seeing them gain the Fairy typing. They'd definitely be more useful.

Kurapika July 19th, 2013 10:51 AM

Yeah, Volbeat and Illumise being Fairy would make sense not to mention that it will make those junk Bugs more useful.
Which moves you think may become of the Fairy type? Imo: Charm, Wish, Nature Power, Sing, Relic Song, ...

CliCliW July 19th, 2013 12:40 PM

I think Moonlight and maybe Metronome could both be changed to Fairy.

Livewire July 19th, 2013 2:16 PM

I'm thinking the Jigglypuff and Clefairy lines, Dunsparce, the Azurill line, etc. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that a lot of the previous purely Normal typed Pokemon will pick up Fairy as a secondary type.

Iceshadow3317 July 19th, 2013 3:08 PM

Both Jigglypuff and Azurill lines have been confirmed. There should be a good amount to become fairy. Depends on what GF wants to do though.

Xander Olivieri July 19th, 2013 5:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman3317 (Post 7743912)
Both Jigglypuff and Azurill lines have been confirmed. There should be a good amount to become fairy. Depends on what GF wants to do though.

Both the lines haven't been confirmed. Only one member from each is confirmed, by association we can go with the evolved form as well, but there is nothing that says that the babies are Fairy Type.

Salt-the-Sloth July 20th, 2013 5:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurapika (Post 7743588)
Yeah, Volbeat and Illumise being Fairy would make sense not to mention that it will make those junk Bugs more useful.
Which moves you think may become of the Fairy type? Imo: Charm, Wish, Nature Power, Sing, Relic Song, ...

Swift!!! I was always confused with swift, like I thought it didn't fit normal type, and the closest type I could find to fit it was Psychic, but Swift being Fairy would be perfect!

Other moves hmm...probably Attract, Captivate, Perish Song(Wasn't there a story of mermaids singing to pirates luring them to their deaths? Mermaids are...kind of fairy-ish...), Refresh, Moonlight ( maybe Morning Sun too? ) Tickle, maybe Trump Card?

I really only see them changing a few moves into Fairy and introducing a bunch. I'd probably say Swift, Moonlight, Wish, Attract+Charm+Captivate and Sing will be reclassed and that's it..

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 20th, 2013 2:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Salt-the-Sloth (Post 7744667)
Swift!!! I was always confused with swift, like I thought it didn't fit normal type, and the closest type I could find to fit it was Psychic, but Swift being Fairy would be perfect!

Other moves hmm...probably Attract, Captivate, Perish Song(Wasn't there a story of mermaids singing to pirates luring them to their deaths? Mermaids are...kind of fairy-ish...), Refresh, Moonlight ( maybe Morning Sun too? ) Tickle, maybe Trump Card?

I really only see them changing a few moves into Fairy and introducing a bunch. I'd probably say Swift, Moonlight, Wish, Attract+Charm+Captivate and Sing will be reclassed and that's it..

Actually in the original version it was the Sirens, bird like woman who lead naval man (pirates, sea merchants, etc.) to their doom. Their voices in some versions are said to have had the secrets of the universe. Would be nice if there was a Pokémon based on them, or a Harpy.

Iceshadow3317 July 20th, 2013 2:55 PM

Sing, Attract, Charm, Captivate, Swift, Double Slap, Sweet Kiss, Sweet Scent, Helping Hand and Heal Bell.

Those are just 10 normal attacks that I saw. There is probably a lot more that could be used. Those are just some I could see. Maybe not Double Slap.


Also, another pokemon that could be part fairy would be Chimecho as a Psy/Fairy.

Perriechu July 20th, 2013 7:58 PM

Moves that should definitely be Fairy type are; Charm, Captivate, Sweet Kiss, Lovely Kiss and Wish. Others don't seem to have that 'Fairy' quality to them... I mean moves like Sing could be fairy but they can't change every normal move to Fairy but I think that a fair few will be. I think a lot of Normal types will be changed and Pokemon that have Normal as a dual type simply because I think Normal was meant to be a 'placeholder' of sorts for a Fairy type.

I think Eevee could possibly get the type, Clefairy's line obviously will; as will Jigglypuff's. I think Miltank, Psyduck, Golduck, Poliwag, Poliwhirl and Politoed could possibly get it, too.

Vulpix and Ninetales, too, maybe?

Xander Olivieri July 20th, 2013 8:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragonomega (Post 7745395)
Moves that should definitely be Fairy type are; Charm, Captivate, Sweet Kiss, Lovely Kiss and Wish. Others don't seem to have that 'Fairy' quality to them... I mean moves like Sing could be fairy but they can't change every normal move to Fairy but I think that a fair few will be. I think a lot of Normal types will be changed and Pokemon that have Normal as a dual type simply because I think Normal was meant to be a 'placeholder' of sorts for a Fairy type.

I think Eevee could possibly get the type, Clefairy's line obviously will; as will Jigglypuff's. I think Miltank, Psyduck, Golduck, Poliwag, Poliwhirl and Politoed could possibly get it, too.

Vulpix and Ninetales, too, maybe?

Normal was never a placeholder for anything and still exists. Eevee has a Fairy Type evolution and the main site still has it as Normal so it didn't change.


I'm not really seeing any old moves changing, most mentioned are fairly normal in pretty much every aspect of their being. Moonlight, sure I can see that changing, but why was Morning Sun never fire? I don't see one changing and not the other. None of the attacks really seem out of place as normal attacks. Sure they may need to retype some or else we'll get 15+ fairy attacks this gen to balance things out.

Perriechu July 20th, 2013 9:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XanderO (Post 7745426)
Normal was never a placeholder for anything and still exists. Eevee has a Fairy Type evolution and the main site still has it as Normal so it didn't change.

I meant that if Fairy type was around at the start then a lot of Normal type moves and Pokemon would be Fairy type. Placeholder may have been the wrong word to use but I can't think of the word rn. :( Hopefully you understand, lmao.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 20th, 2013 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XanderO (Post 7745426)
Normal was never a placeholder for anything and still exists. Eevee has a Fairy Type evolution and the main site still has it as Normal so it didn't change.


I'm not really seeing any old moves changing, most mentioned are fairly normal in pretty much every aspect of their being. Moonlight, sure I can see that changing, but why was Morning Sun never fire? I don't see one changing and not the other. None of the attacks really seem out of place as normal attacks. Sure they may need to retype some or else we'll get 15+ fairy attacks this gen to balance things out.

There's also a chance they may not add many. Dark and Steel didn't get much moves during their introduction, and gen III mostly introduced none attack moves such as memento and Iron Defense. Steel as of Generation V has around 15 moves...so I imagine Fairy would have less than that for it's first generation.


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