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-   -   X&Y's impact on competitive battling. (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=305947)

PlatinumDude August 8th, 2013 10:15 PM

It's also confirmed that the Mega Evolutions have increased stats compared to their original versions. The confirmed ones so far are MegaLucario's increased Attack and MegaAbsol's increased Attack and Speed. I like both of these changes; Absol really needed a speed buff, but the increased Attack may be overkill, IMO.

Sirfetch’d August 8th, 2013 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlatinumDude (Post 7775295)
It's also confirmed that the Mega Evolutions have increased stats compared to their original versions. The confirmed ones so far are MegaLucario's increased Attack and MegaAbsol's increased Attack and Speed. I like both of these changes; Absol really needed a speed buff, but the increased Attack may be overkill, IMO.


It's STAB Sucker Punch is going to be very strong especially after a SD boost, but still I have the concern of will the stats get enough boost to make up for a lack of item. For example, if you are running a standard LO set on Absol will that still be more powerful than the new form that wont be able to hold LO?

JordanD August 8th, 2013 11:10 PM

I'm mostly worried about Mega Pokemon,Lucario and Mawile seem quite overpowered so far.

Sirfetch’d August 8th, 2013 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JordanD (Post 7775338)
I'm mostly worried about Mega Pokemon,Lucario and Mawile seem quite overpowered so far.


In their current state, no. I want to see how much of an increase they get. If Lucario's attack is raised significantly combined with adaptability I would think yes it could be very OP with Adaptability STAB Bullet punch.

SomaQL August 8th, 2013 11:21 PM

I just hope MegaPersian gets a Diamond in it's head instead of whatever gem that is

PlatinumDude August 9th, 2013 6:20 AM

Call me crazy, but does anyone think that the Cheek Pouch ability would see competitive use? Dedenne or Bunnelby may be good candidates for pinch berries, since not only will they get the stat boost, but they'll regain HP too. I think that both will have high Speed, considering that kangaroo rats and rabbits are fast in RL, so Liechi or Petaya may be better for them, depending on what other stats they get. (this is assuming that items can be transferred from Gen V to VI, or if pinch berries are made available within Gen VI)

Boilurn August 9th, 2013 7:28 AM

I probably think it would see competitive use, especially in fast-paced hard-hitting metagames such as doubles, where a quick regain of HP is helpful to avoid being 2HKOed by faster Pokemon. Not sure in singles though, we'll have to test this combo out to see if it helps these Pokemon.

PlatinumDude August 11th, 2013 5:52 PM

Okay, according to the official X/Y site, Ampharos gains Dragon Pulse, while Mawile's defenses increase when it goes Mega.

In Gens IV/V, the only Dragon move Ampharos was able to learn was Outrage, which worked off of its weaker Attack stat. I guess the addition of Dragon Pulse was done to give Mega Ampharos a specials secondary STAB to work with in Mega forme, other than using its new Dragon type to defend itself.

Mega Mawile's increased defenses are a huge welcome, IMO, since its regular forme's Defense was decent, with its Special Defense being terrible in comparison. Its low HP is still a bit of a problem, though.

Aeroblast August 11th, 2013 8:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlatinumDude (Post 7775789)
Call me crazy, but does anyone think that the Cheek Pouch ability would see competitive use? Dedenne or Bunnelby may be good candidates for pinch berries, since not only will they get the stat boost, but they'll regain HP too. I think that both will have high Speed, considering that kangaroo rats and rabbits are fast in RL, so Liechi or Petaya may be better for them, depending on what other stats they get. (this is assuming that items can be transferred from Gen V to VI, or if pinch berries are made available within Gen VI)

Knowing the very low defenses of such Pokemon, if the pattern follows, it'll be very tricky to get them to activate the pinch berries. I predict it'll be a gimmick at best but who knows.

Perriechu August 11th, 2013 8:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seattle (Post 7781297)
Knowing the very low defenses of such Pokemon, if the pattern follows, it'll be very tricky to get them to activate the pinch berries. I predict it'll be a gimmick at best but who knows.

It might not work as well in standard play but I can see it becoming quite a nice set to play with in NU/RU if their defenses will be bad.

Hikamaru August 11th, 2013 8:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlatinumDude (Post 7775789)
Call me crazy, but does anyone think that the Cheek Pouch ability would see competitive use? Dedenne or Bunnelby may be good candidates for pinch berries, since not only will they get the stat boost, but they'll regain HP too. I think that both will have high Speed, considering that kangaroo rats and rabbits are fast in RL, so Liechi or Petaya may be better for them, depending on what other stats they get. (this is assuming that items can be transferred from Gen V to VI, or if pinch berries are made available within Gen VI)

I bet Cheek Pouch could see some new use for berries like Liechi, Petaya and Salac due to the activating below 1/3 max HP effect, but also restore HP so that you're not so vulnerable to getting revenge killed by a priority move. This is certainly heightening my hopes that X and Y will have berries available in-game.

Aeroblast August 11th, 2013 9:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragonomega (Post 7781304)
It might not work as well in standard play but I can see it becoming quite a nice set to play with in NU/RU if their defenses will be bad.

You're right, it will probably see use in those metagames, unless they're useless as in, Luvdisc useless. However, due to the sheer amount of power Pokemon have even in those metagames I doubt the extra HP will be useful. Plus we don't really know how much HP Cheek Pouch restores. Is it 1/2? 1/4? 1/8?

I don't usually play with Pokemon in those category unless its name is Zangoose, but for those who enjoy that metagame it could be a news.

Keiran September 11th, 2013 4:49 PM

Is it too late to bump this?

Anyways, what do you all think about the new type chart?

cbd98 September 11th, 2013 5:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keiran777 (Post 7828820)
Is it too late to bump this?

Anyways, what do you all think about the new type chart?

Fairy types being immune to Dragon is going to be HUGE in Gen VI. Instead of having something to tank Draco Meteors and Outrages, you can switch and be completely fine. On that note, Outrage will definitely be much less common, with a quick switch shutting it down fast. Dragon types in general will probably stop carrying choice items in fear of a wasted turn, and if a Fairy sweeper is there in Gen VI, it'll probably have no problem switching in to some threats like Garchomp and maybe even Latios on a good prediction. Also, Steel losing some resistances is okay, but Dark and Ghost moves aren't that common except for STAB or on Psychic types for Ghost. Overall, Steel and Dragon are losing some of their edge, but I think they'll still perform well. Fairy type being strong against Fire will be great too, and I think it'll be a great type to use on a team.

Griffinbane September 11th, 2013 5:02 PM

We were talking about this earlier on TC and the general consensus is that Psychic/Steel types just got boned and Scizor doesn't appreciate the nerf. Metagross is still bulky enough to carry on without too much trouble, I don't think the change will hurt Bronzong TOO much... but Jirachi just got shot from whatever tier he's currently in. Poor Superachi! isn't defensive enough to ignore the nerf.

FlamingRage September 11th, 2013 6:22 PM

I honestly don't think fairy type is going to help balance the metagame much. They have just made dragon type much easier to counter, but a pure fairy type is only weak to steel and poison. steel doesn't have many notable attackers (correct me if I'm wrong, cause at the moment I'm only thinking of Scizor, Metagross and Lucario) And now has to worry about dark types. Poison types tend to be slow and are weak to two types that are known for having great attack and spacial attack stats, ground and psychic, which are both unaffected by the type chart update.

The way I see it, while we just got rid of an over powered type, we also just got a new one.

(also, Mawile is the new Kingdra. But better.)

PlatinumDude September 11th, 2013 6:49 PM

Gengar is going to see a LOT of usage in OU when X/Y roll around. It has STAB Shadow Ball to smack around Metagross and Jirachi supereffectively. It also has STAB Sludge Bomb to hit Fairies hard. Of course, Focus Blast may still be used to hit other Steels supereffectively, like Ferrothorn.

FlamingRage September 11th, 2013 6:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlatinumDude (Post 7828984)
Gengar is going to see a LOT of usage in OU when X/Y roll around. It has STAB Shadow Ball to smack around Metagross and Jirachi supereffectively. It also has STAB Sludge Bomb to hit Fairies hard. Of course, Focus Blast may still be used to hit other Steels supereffectively, like Ferrothorn.

>.<
Knew I was forgetting something when I posted about poison types being slow.

let's all hope and pray that smogon doesn't handle pokemon with mega evolutions like they treated Blaziken when he got access to speed boost.

One more prediction: Uber 2. For Ubers that are too strong for normal Ubers.

Dark Azelf September 11th, 2013 7:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlamingRage (Post 7828992)
>.<
Knew I was forgetting something when I posted about poison types being slow.

let's all hope and pray that smogon doesn't handle pokemon with mega evolutions like they treated Blaziken when he got access to speed boost.

One more prediction: Uber 2. For Ubers that are too strong for normal Ubers.

Ubers is a ban list nothing more so a ban list wouldnt have a ban list, that would be silly.

I can see sub gar being annoying in XY with it having alot less checks and counters thanks to the steel nerf and poison becoming relevant to hit fairies. Shadow Ball/Sludge Bomb/Focus Blast/Sub sounds fun to face. Not lol.

Aeroblast September 11th, 2013 8:18 PM

Gengar is going to become an even bigger menace as already mentioned. What I thought was Gengar's hindrance, Ghost/Poison typing (as it makes Gengar susceptible to Psychic), is now quite a strong asset that Gengar has going for it.

Fairy is a good defensive typing though, as their only two weaknesses come from two of the least recognized attacking types, Poison and Steel. That being said, however, those two types will definitely get increased usage.

I don't think Steel losing its resistance against Ghost and Dark is a huge disadvantage in general, though it'll take some time to get used to.

Nolafus September 12th, 2013 12:55 AM

Hmm... I'm worried about fairies becoming overpowered. Gengar is definitely going to see more usage, and possibly Toxicroak. I think we should be fine as long as Gamefreak doesn't give fairy types high stats like they did to dragons. It'll be funny to see everyone using all these different pokemon, trying to see what's actually good and everything. This is going to be weird for me, as this will be the first time new pokemon will be introduced. I've done well in the CAP tier, hopefully I'll do well here too.

Hikamaru September 12th, 2013 3:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slayr231 (Post 7829272)
Hmm... I'm worried about fairies becoming overpowered. Gengar is definitely going to see more usage, and possibly Toxicroak. I think we should be fine as long as Gamefreak doesn't give fairy types high stats like they did to dragons. It'll be funny to see everyone using all these different pokemon, trying to see what's actually good and everything. This is going to be weird for me, as this will be the first time new pokemon will be introduced. I've done well in the CAP tier, hopefully I'll do well here too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seattle (Post 7829086)
Gengar is going to become an even bigger menace as already mentioned. What I thought was Gengar's hindrance, Ghost/Poison typing (as it makes Gengar susceptible to Psychic), is now quite a strong asset that Gengar has going for it.

Fairy is a good defensive typing though, as their only two weaknesses come from two of the least recognized attacking types, Poison and Steel. That being said, however, those two types will definitely get increased usage.

I don't think Steel losing its resistance against Ghost and Dark is a huge disadvantage in general, though it'll take some time to get used to.

I do have to agree with you two, Gengar might see more usage in OU not just because of Fairy-types but also the fact they removed Steel's resistance to Dark and Ghost, making Bronzong, Jirachi and Metagross more vulnerable to its Shadow Ball, plus it has Sludge Bomb to deal with Fairy-types assuming they don't have a second type that Poison is resisted by.

Given Fairy's two weaknesses aren't very common attacking types, it's safe to say it will be a good defensive type, and it can do that even better if paired with the right types. Now if there were more physical Fairy-type attacks expect Azumarill to become one heck of a great Dragon counter. Steel's nerfing could see Jirachi drop a tier, maybe even Metagross to a lesser extent. The 4x Fairy weakness is also a reason I could see Hydreigon going to UU, but it depends on which powerful Fairy-types we'll be seeing dominating the OU metagame.

I could see the likes of Salamence running Iron Tail or Hydreigon running Flash Cannon just to get past Fairy-types. The Fairy-type could also see less usage of Choice Item sets on Dragons and of course less usage of Draco Meteor and Outrage since a Fairy-type can switch in and absorb the hit.

FlamingRage September 12th, 2013 7:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Azelf (Post 7829005)
Ubers is a ban list nothing more so a ban list wouldnt have a ban list, that would be silly.

uhhh, no. Ubers was a rather popular metagame last I checked. There's no reason they shouldn't try to keep it balanced as well.

Opposite Day September 12th, 2013 8:54 AM

..so with the changes made to the type-chart does this mean that Specs Doom Desire Jirachi will see some use now other than on my gimmicky Gen IV team? ;)

Other than that, Poison actually seems to be a decent type now with resists to Poison, Gass, Fighting, Fairy, and Bug, as well as with some small nerfs to Steel allows things such as Gengar and Skuntank (hahaha) plow through Scizor and the likes, not to mention Fairies. 2xic-4drag combo to get rid of fairies anyone?

Livewire September 12th, 2013 11:59 AM

I think we all know that Fairy's strengths and weaknesses are going to change a lot of things, (Imagine being able to switch into Draco Meteor or Outrage for free, basically) but something else to watch for is that Steel lost two of its resistances, to Dark and Ghost, if I remember right. Throw in Fairy's immunity to Dragon, and it's become clear that they're trying to take Dragon and Steel down a peg, and even things out in terms of strength and usage.

Something else I'd like to see is well, less weather overall, and something or someway to deal with SR better. Something else I'd REALLY like to see is Fire types become a little more viable, hopefully that Pyroar Pokemon has the stats to go with that awesome design.


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