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Yeah, unless Pyroar has an awful stat spread or a terrible movepool it will definitely be common. Its the only Pokemon to resist Fairy and Ghost, and it comes with Unnerve support. Anything that relies on the common Chople, Occa, Yache, Shuca, Haban, Chesto, Sitrus & Lum berries will get roasted.
It seems like they really wanted to nerf Dragon and Fighting, and probably did it too harshly. Dark seems to have been thrown in with them, for some reason, which is pretty lame. Also, does this mean Metagross OHKOs itself with Foul Play? Lol |
In the Gen VI metagame, I can see Dragons like Garchomp and Haxorus running Iron Head/Tail just to get past Fairies. In Ubers, Dialga can do the same with Iron Tail or Flash Cannon; it never even used its Steel STAB ever.
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Id probably only even think about using on a weak scarf set or as a filler move. Quote:
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Tier#Uber |
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You can't use OU in anything below OU. You can't use UU in anything below UU. You can't use RU in anything below RU. The entire concept of a tier list is an effective ban list for those who play in lower tiers. Uber tier itself is no holds bar, everything goes in the Fan made competitive play. You are also better off linking to Smogon if you want to sound like you know what you are talking about. Its better at keeping its play information as up to date as possible and is the leading site in terms of metagame regulations. Clause and Banlists via Smogon. So really, read before you decide to post. While effectively you are right about Uber being a "Ban List" it is not just a ban list. In any Metagame, unless specifying a tier all Pokemon are available for play. Only until you specify a tier in which you are participating and using their rules do any form of ban lists appear. If you play NU like majority of PC, then everything from RU and up is banned from use because they belong to a different tier. It is a rather popular Metagame list. It IS a metagame format. AND it is a Ban List ONLY if you are playing in a tier below it. All of this is also moot when you look at "Official Metagame rules" which are made by TPC. This list has no Tiers and follows more along the lines of the "Uber" list with the only exception of ALL Event related Legendary Pokemon: Mew, Celebi, Jirachi, Deoxys, Manaphy (Phione by association), Darkrai, Shaymin, Arceus, Victini, Keldeo, Meloetta, and Genesect. Box Art Legendary Pokemon: Lugia, Ho-oh, Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza, Dialga, Palkia, Giratina, Reshiram, Zekrom, and Kyurem. Leaving Mewtwo banned due to sheer power and Chatot banned due to Chatter. Those are the only Pokemon banned from official tournaments and in official Metagames. So depending on where you want to see what is on the ban list, depends on what Metagame you play. Unofficial anything not registered in or below your immediate Tier is banned. That's how the unofficial (Smogon) Tier lists works. Its entire existance is essentially a fully detailed Ban list to balance out variously different tournament types for different play styles of people. I've said my peace concerning the Fairy types back in the X and Y forum. I do not see many of them really doing anything. I don't see many getting any practical use due to being fairly weak. Type is ok, but you need more than type. If they don't have the stats to back up their immunity then they won't be used as much. Look at Ice types. Its better to use their attacks than the Pokemon. If the Fairy Pokemon are weak stat wise, I see more of their attacks being utilized by other Pokemon than them. Mawile and Azumarill being the only two exceptions but both will have to contend with their own checkers which may become more common, one for Marill/Azumarill being Tentacruel who is an effective shield against the tiny little water rodent tank. The biggest change X and Y is bringing to the table IMO is the removal of Ghost and Dark from Steel's resistances. Metagross, Jirachi, and Bronzong lose two neutral damages and gain two weaknesses. Likewise the new Honedge now has to fear Ghost and Dark types as well. A really good thing is Sableye and Spiritomb no longer have no weaknesses due to type match up. |
Apparently Steel does not resist Ghost or Dark in this gen. That will cause lots of chage
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Anyway, a few things 1. I linked there because it explained tiers? It would have been the same if i linked to smogon, which ill do now ive found the link.http://www.smogon.com/bw/articles/bw_tiers Oh look it says the same thing as bulba, regardless most of that was pretty irrelevant. Its even more irrelevant because judging by your posts you didnt read what i was even responding to, which my point in a nutshell "there is no point in a tier above ubers because its a ban list and its pointless it being balanced". That was it and nothing more. 2. Ubers primary function IS a ban list (i.e it doesnt need balance see: my previous post). Just as BL is to UU. The only difference is BL doesnt have a metagame. Everything else is usage based. :/ 3. Quote:
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Can we please drop this whole unneeded argument about Ubers? Ubers, BL, BL2, and BL3 are all tiers whose main function is to act as a ban list for the tiers below them. Ubers is only a playable metagame because it has enough Pokemon to be one. There isn't going to be a tier above Ubers because Ubers is meant to be "a 'free-for-all metagame with no restrictions on which Pokemon may participate." The only rules in Ubers are clauses, and even then, they have been trying to remove them as of late.
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The other big thing will be that Heatran has now basically become the God of X&Y with a 4x Fairy resistance. (Both Steel & Fire resist it, with steel being SE to Fairy) It can maul Steel, Fairies and Dragons, and is immune to the hopefully pumped up Poison type. Ground weakness is still an issue, but a balloon takes care of that, and Fighting is weak to fairy, so expect it to have great team synergy with Fairies, maybe a bulky Azumarill or a yet-to-be-named one. |
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Uber is its own Tier. It has nothing higher than it because it is an "Anything Goes" tier. It still has its own set of rules that must be followed just like every other tier. As the tiers go downward the rules get stricter. The entire CONCEPT OF A TIER LIST IS TO BAN. The tiers themselves however are not just ban lists. They are their own entities of separate specified fields of play. Your entire response is unneeded and full of misinformation. So, take your three points which are as meaningless as your attempt to correct others and keep it to yourself. Ubers are their own tier whether you want to admit it. They are their own form of play. Its an open form of play and is NOT primarily a Ban List. If it is, then the primary function to every Tier is to be a Ban list as you cannot use Pokemon within upper tiers in lower tiers. Ubers themselves can move off of the Uber Tier just like any other Pokemon can move in and out of their own respective tier lists with proper usage. And if memory serves, there were two Pokemon currently in the Uber lists that, for a time were Banned from even that tier for use. One point on a Pokemon from the Yber list dropping: Wobbuffett. It has been Uber since Gen 3 and dropped to BL in Gen 5. If it were simply a Ban list why would a Pokemon that for 2 Generations be on the top list then suddently drop back down? It wasn't used nearly as much is one answer. Its still an OP nuisance. Its counters haven't changed all to much, there are a few extra ways to bypass its ability, but its still as capable as it has been since its days as an Uber. With Fairy type, Garchomp may fall out of Uber. Its still an insane powerhouse that can sweep through a team, but it may not see as much use unless its Mega Form provides so much of a boost that its the main reason to keep Garchomp in Uber. All the lists change. Uber is no exception to this and still falls under use because the ones in there are insanely strong. All Tiers also present a specific Power gauge. Which is why they are banned from competing below their set tiers. Pokemon in RU are considered to be more powerful and cause an unfair gap in NU teams, therefore they are banned from use in NU. And yes that is written in Smogon in each explanation of the tiers. Each tier on the way down is weaker than the one above. This makes each tier its own separate entity. OU consists of everything below it, with the actual OU list being the top of what is considered to be OU Standards. UU is the very top of what is considered UU Standard. Everything in OU is considered too powerful to compete in UU and therefore they are banned from use in UU styled play. THAT is what the tier list is. It itself is a Ban list to keep upper tiers from being used in the lower tiers, but the Tiers themselves are styles of gameplay used in the competitive metagame. Uber is a competitive style that is equivalent to a Battle Royal where no one is barred entry regardless of power. It is the strongest Tier and like all tiers it will cycle in and out. The Pokemon used in Uber are eventually going to fall from grace due to system or content shifts like the current changes. Mawile has potential to make it all the way up to UU with her new found typing, Ability, Mega Form, and possible Move set change. Azumarill has the ability to make it into OU thanks to her type change alone seeing as she already has a powerful ability. Charizard has a chance to move out of NU and up to UU in Drought teams, and Venusaur can move up from OU if the people that use him can find him a decent move set to go with his new found resistance to two of his weaknesses cutting the number of attacks to be used against him in half. Venusaur is already an OU Pokemon thanks to the B/W update to it and it still has potential to move further up. If Blissey becomes a Fairy Type she can be moved into Uber as her only weaknesses are Steel and Poison, both of which aren't even close to common in Uber and she tanks everything in it. The only thing Blissey has to fear in Uber is Dialga, Genesect and Excadrill. Two of which she also resists the other half or is immune to. She's immune to almost all of the current Uber list. Blaziken is really the only thing not threatened by her as he resists her Fairy attacks but at the same time he only does normal damage to her. Blissey most certainly isn't a Pokemon that should be "Banned" as she's just a giant wall used to stall. If she gains Fairy type like a majority of us anticipate I see her moving into Uber mostly because of how much use she is going to get. The more use you have the more chances are you'll end up in the top most tier. She'd also be considered too useful to have in OU. But that doesn't say that a Poison Type Pokemon from UU cannot kill her as fast as anything in an upper tier. That Pokemon in UU just isn't shown to be used as much or for as much as a Blissey. Blissey's potential is just greater even though she'd have more counters the further down the list she'd go. So once more, The Tier List Concept is to establish an effective ban list to balance out the gameplay for specific sets of Pokemon. The actual Tiers themselves are by no means a Ban List. They are different styles of play reflecting the current meta usage of the generation. Pokemon in Uber today may be OU tomorrow. Pokemon in NU today may shoot to Uber tomorrow due to even a few changes. Metagross is going to drop out of OU now that he has 2 Common Weaknesses added to him. Bronzong may drop down to NU or even the newer Tier PU as his useage may dwindle down to practically nothing since his stats aren't as good as Metagross even though based on which ever ability it has it has 3 weaknesses compared to Metagross' 4. Jirachi may or may not drop out of OU. Eventhough both Jirachi and Metagross have the same Base Stat Total of 600, Metagross isn't as evenly balanced as Jirachi is and Jirachi's Serene Grace is a much better ability to utilize offensively. With some Poison Type attacks or even Poison Type Pokemon making a potential move forward in usage, Jirachi is an appropriate counter to nullify a Poison Attack and then deal some heavy status damage to them. 60% Flinch from STAB'd Iron Head has its benefits that not being able to drop stats doesn't. Even still it could pull a 180 on my prediction and the opposite happen in favor of Metagross' ability to nullify Stat reducing attacks. The tier list is going to change this coming generation. What was in each individual tier has a chance to move to either an upper or lower Tier. This includes Ubers. Quote:
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Is anyone else worried that Pokemon Amie will make competitive battling more luck-based? Do you think that Amie's buffs will only affect the single-player game?
The thing is, is that the increase in critical hit ratio and evasion can seriously turn the, what I believe is currently a 90:10 skill:luck ratio metagame into a more lopsided ratio. Sure the chance to have that "Sturdy" effect and being able to heal paralysis might seem nice and all, but it seems to be based around RNG, which is personally my least favorable part of battling, but is obviously required to balance some things out. |
Some other changes announced;
-Ghost types can no longer be trapped. -Grass types are immune to moves like SleepPowder and Stun Spore. I assume this also includes other plant tomfoolery like Spore. -Electric types can no longer be paralyzed. What do you all think of this? Personally, I think the immunity to Paralyze is rather nice. |
The "Ghost-types can no longer be trapped" doesn't really mean much since ghost-type beat Wobbuffet and Gothitelle anyway.
Electric-types immune to paralyzing? What the hell? |
I don't get why Paralysis is associated with Electric types now. If they are immune then so should Ground types since Paralysis is supposed to be related to Electrc types and Ground is immune to Electric type attacks. This is how Steel types are treated in relation to Poison attacks and status. Seems only fair that they should get the same treatment.
Status blocking now seems to be a huge focus and IMO fairly broken. Grass types are now immune to Sleep Powder, Stun Spore, Spore, and possibly Poison Powder (unless they leave it to the Grass Typed powder attacks). The info does say that grass types were immune to moves like Sleep Powder and Spore is like Sleep Powder so this is an educated assumption. Competative wise, some Pokemon lose part of their main defense as they can easily be blocked by switching into a Grass Type. As for Ghosts switching, it says moves, and didn't say anything about the ability Shadow Tag so anything with Mean Look won't be able to use it against ghosts...which would be a pain in the butt if you have a roamer that happens to be ghost type this generation. |
I think the electric type being immune to paralysis makes perfect sense, actually. Paralysis is basically being bound by electric/synaptic charges, so basically, a Pokemon that can manipulate electrical energy should theoretically be able to control and effectively negate is effects.
Not all paralysis moves are Electric, though. Theoretically, Body Slam shouldn't be able to paralyze an electric type either. But that still means ground types can be paralyzed. |
Giving Grass-types a boost just means that Poison got a bit better. Again :>
MEGA NIDOKING SMASH |
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Can no longer be trapped ? Does that extend to Pursuit (as it is technically a trapping move) also or is it like Mean Look and abilities etc ? |
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Yay! Grass types now have a major thing going for them! This will go a long way for dealing with opposing Breloom.
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Though with Fairy making its Debute...I guess he'll see a bit less use outside of the Spore build. It'll have to be played by ear until people actually get the gen 6 metagame flowing. Here's to hoping for a Mega Breloom for its fans. As for trapping, its moves that keep a Pokemon from running away such as Mean Look or Block. Rumors are suggesting Partial trapping moves such as Sandtomb and Fire Spin as well as trapping abilities. Officially its only saying moves though. Only moves that "Prevent a Pokemon from Fleeing from battle" are those that are like Block and Mean Look. Looking up what they say officially: (just going to use B/W/B2/W2) Quote:
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As for the Powder thing...I think its just going to be Sleep Powder, Stun Spore, Poison Powder (the three original "Powder" moves) and Spore. Rage Powder they may be immune to but all that does is force you to attack the user of the move so I can't see it bypassing Rage Powder and not Follow Me. Also don't see them making Grass types immune to an Ice or Bug attack that deals damage because of the namesake. (the powder thing was brought up somewhere else. Just wanted to move that to here as well.) Quote:
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There are a lot of things we're going to have to get used to with this new gen. Luckily, I have all of you to help with that. |
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What with the 3DS being crack proof so far, not being able to send our Pokemon forward for quite a while...and having to pay to use the storage that allows us to port forward, not being able to RNG, and having to start completely fresh with new competitive environment, you can expect many different tactics being formed and researched. So many unknown variables in place right now, most of them we won't even discover until we actually play the games. |
Well a lot of us play on simulators, so I'm sure that not being able to RNG and pay to transfer won't affect the competitive side of Pokemon that much. :3
I just wonder how the "early gen-6" is going to be like. Remember when OU was mostly dream world, and everybody used Rain? I'm also wondering what's going to happen to dragons, because most of them are in the higher tiers anyway. I also hope that we get stronger fairies that are usable for other purposes other than stopping dragons, because then I think it might be a waste. :x |
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Okay, so Doublade (and assumably any third form it may get) has been revealed to learn Sacred Sword, the signature move of the legendary musketeers. I think it can put that move to good use, considering that Fighting has unresisted coverage with its Ghost STAB and assuming it get decent Attack and Speed:
-Swords Dance -Shadow Sneak -Sacred Sword -Substitute/Will-o-Wisp Nature: Jolly/Adamant EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe Item: Leftovers I think this will see some use in the lower tiers, since Fire Blast and Earthquake are somewhat widespread in OU. |
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