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-   -   Anyone here NOT like using "HM Slaves"? (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=306091)

pokemasta92 August 4th, 2013 11:42 AM

Anyone here NOT like using "HM Slaves"?
 
HM slaves might be helpful for some people, but I like to play differently. No matter what Pokémon I have in my party I always like to have all HM's on me at once so that I'm not restricted in any way during gameplay. With that being said, I also don't like to shove all of them onto 2 Pokémon. I prefer to split them up, so that I can always be prepared, but at the same time have all of my Pokémon be battle ready. I also like to use field moves that apply to different games, such as Dig in every generation and Secret Power in generation 3. I'm aware that I can't make the most powerful team this way and that it is no good competitively, but it's not about that for me. It's about being prepared while still having strong Pokémon, even if it means they can't be the strongest. Anyone else here like to do this? Here's my current Ruby team to show what I mean:

- BLAZIKEN: Flamethrower, Blaze Kick, Sky Uppercut, Rock Smash (HM06)
- MANECTRIC: Thunder, Thunderbolt, Spark, Flash (HM05)
- WAILORD: Hydro Pump, Surf (HM03), Waterfall (HM07), Dive (HM08)
- AGGRON: Iron Tail, Rock Tomb, Dig, Cut (HM01)
- MIGHTYENA: Crunch, Bite, Thief, Strength (HM04)
- SWELLOW: Fly (HM02), Aerial Ace, Secret Power, Facade

Legobricks August 4th, 2013 12:01 PM

It's a nice idea to distribute them throughought the team, but having obligatory moves on the team with every playthrough is just boring, honestly. When one plays each new Pokemon game, one is still forced to use the same moves which in battle are all, except Surf and Waterfall (and, at that, one doesn't really want both on the same monster), redundant or plain bad. It can ruin the team's ability to battle effectively; any single Water-type knowing all of Surf/Watterfall/Dive ruins its potential to do anything useful for either the team or itself in battle. I personally keep HM thralls in the PC until the moments I need them. It's quite a bother with Fly, but there's nothing else I can do about that if I don't want to have the move around. I'd only build HMs into the team if playing RBGY.

Sirfetch’d August 4th, 2013 12:09 PM

I always use a HM slave because I'd rather dump all of my necessary HMs on one Pokemon because most are horrible except for Surf and Watefall and I don't want my main Pokemon to have to waste a moveslot.

Andrew August 4th, 2013 12:14 PM

I usually carry one HM Slave. There's a lot of items that you need rock smash or cut to get to, so I like to have something that can learn those two moves. I usually have a free spot on my team until fairly late in the game so I'm not really hurting my team by using up the party slot either.

However, I do teach moves like Strength, Surf, Whirlpool, etc. to my main team members because they're fairly strong.

Altair August 4th, 2013 12:52 PM

I have the same opinion as the OP, I just can't have a HM slave! My Pokemon team is actually built around HM moves, it must know at least one. If I like the Pokemon but it doesn't know the necessary HM, then I'm not using it...

I'm not going to always switch out someone in the box just because I didn't want a 'wasted' move slot...

CliCliW August 4th, 2013 12:57 PM

I build the HMs into my team. HM slaves are just annoying. I hate thinking "Oh, I've to go back to my computer now to get Xmon cause he has Cut". And now Flash isn't even a HM so it isn't a waste of space anymore! But when I need flash I give it to my team's psychic type. Being honest, I think Fly, Surf and Strength are fairly decent attacks so I've no qualms about having them on the team.

As for the other HM slots, if I really feel the slot could be used for something better there's move deleters that I can visit so it's not too bad :)

KorpiklaaniVodka August 4th, 2013 1:14 PM

I don't like using HM slaves, so I usually build them into my team. However, HMs themselves are really annoying and imo should have never been implemented.

Aeroblast August 4th, 2013 1:32 PM

HM Slaves are almost a necessity because most HMs are pitifully weak and you'd rather cram all the bad moves into one Pokemon if you want to use the other five to their fullest extent.

As harsh as it sounds, it's just a game, so there's not much need to feel any sentimental about it.

pokemasta92 August 4th, 2013 4:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seattle (Post 7767405)
HM Slaves are almost a necessity because most HMs are pitifully weak and you'd rather cram all the bad moves into one Pokemon if you want to use the other five to their fullest extent.

As harsh as it sounds, it's just a game, so there's not much need to feel any sentimental about it.

That's the beauty of video games, you can play them however you please. For me personally, I'd rather have 6 Pokémon that are great for battling with HM's split up than have 4 Pokémon that are perfect for battling and 2 Pokémon that have 4 HM's. I'd rather waste a move slot than waste an entire Pokémon.

Kevin121 August 4th, 2013 5:04 PM

I try not to. But theres always a pokemon thatll have more hms than the others. Although i even them out pretty well

PlatinumDude August 4th, 2013 6:03 PM

I don't use HM slaves; I want all my Pokemon to contribute in battle one way or another, so I spread out my HMs.

Brendino August 4th, 2013 6:27 PM

I'm usually split in what I decide to do. Sometimes, I'll have a dedicated HM slave in my party with a few of my other Pokemon having an HM, or I'll try to do an even split between by team, especially when there are fewer essential HMs. If I have the later, though, I try and give the HMs to Pokemon that you might not expect to have them (such as giving Druddigon Surf in White 2, when I already had a Samurott on my team).

Cerberus87 August 4th, 2013 6:28 PM

I usually only carry Fly and Surf with me, the rest I use an HM slave. Reason that, for example, in my current playthrough of Black 2, my prime candidates for learning Strength and Waterfall already have other moves with them, which would break their coverage. My Heracross, for example, has Megahorn, Close Combat, Night Slash and Rock Slide. I'm not getting rid of any of those for Strength.

Sydian August 4th, 2013 6:29 PM

When I was younger, I didn't even think to use them. I just made sure the HMs that were necessary were distributed accordingly amongst my team, which made moveset limits, and sometimes even team limits, like not being able to use a Pokemon I wanted.

If you wanna feel better about using HM slaves (I personally don't have time or space for crap moves like Cut and Flash) call it HM buddy. Sounds better, right?

skyluigi2 August 5th, 2013 8:41 AM

I tend to spread them around my team. For that reason, I usually have at least one Water and one Flying type in my team. I'm totally fine with that. Most of the time, I'll skip HMs like Cut and Rock Smash unless they're necessary to progress.

Shizzable August 12th, 2013 5:29 AM

I never use HM slaves. I basically do what you mentioned at the beginning, but only with moves that are decent. I always have someone with Strength, Surf, and Fly on my team because they are usable moves (even though I had to make a sacrifice such as putting fly, a physical move, on a Sigilyph, who is Special-based). I get rid of flash, cut, rock smash, etc. Though after the first half or so of the game.

Meaii August 12th, 2013 5:38 AM

The only time I ever use HM Slaves is in Nuzlocke or a Solo Challenge, all of my other playthroughs have the Hidden Machines spread across the whole of my team, not just one having four different HMs. I just don't think it's the 'trainer' thing to do, you're meant to care for your Pokémon and not make them your slaves.

PokeChris123 August 12th, 2013 6:03 AM

I always use a HM slave because I don't like the HM moves in battle. I think they are very useless and prefer to use on them on a Pokemon for just HM moves. The only exceptions are Surf and Fly, which are moves I love during battle. So I teach them to my main Pokemon team.

Starlight Sprite August 12th, 2013 6:04 AM

I don't really use HM slaves because I don't like having a Pokemon around that's useless in battle. Gen5 made this even easier since TMs are now reusable, so any Pokemon with a TM move can temporarily be taught an HM until it's no longer needed, and then brought to the Move Deleter without losing the old move forever.

Blastin'Tyruntz August 12th, 2013 9:22 AM

im sorry but i disagree on your opinion. "HM slaves" are pokemons that we must use, because if we give our best pokemon HM's like you do, we will have to make room for less moves of our pokemon. I mean, i have a Fearow and a Pidgeotte. I love fearow more so i will train him harder and give pidgeotte "Fly" you know why? because if i want to train my pokemon far away, i will use him to move there. Because his only purpose in life is to fill my dex. you gave Wailord surf,dive and waterfall.....its a little too much for a pokemon who is already not with a good movepool.
Also off-topic: You gave your starter HM?! Such bad trainers make me sick :)

Aquacorde August 12th, 2013 9:38 AM

I prefer not to use HM buddies. I try to keep the commonly used HMs within my party and just ditch the rest. I'll use a common Pokémon for Cut and Rock Smash, because I don't usually have a full team when those are necessary and really don't want them stuck on my 'mon till I get to the Move Deleter. Besides Whirlpool, the water HMs are decent and get ditributed around my team- I usually have two water types or a few 'mon that can learn the moves, so none of them get stuck with mostly-HM movesets. Fly I will always have, and Strength depends on the game. But usually I'll just ignore HMs that aren't necessary for game progression. I never need Flash; the only place where it's required for progression is Granite Cave and I can do that easily in the dark. Cut and Rock Smash only get you supplemental items and access to shortcuts after the first part of the game. iirc Whirlpool is only necessary in Johto, and if I care to go I'll just catch something while surfing that I can take with for that.

So yeah. I don't like using HM buddies much. It seems almost unfair to a Pokémon to fill its moveset like that and barely train it. I'M SENTIMENTAL OK

Quote:

You gave your starter HM?! Such bad trainers make me sick
wow rude. different people have different play styles. you may not appreciate those styles, but they work for others. to say another person makes you sick because of their chosen moveset- that makes me sick.

ExeTheTyphlosion August 12th, 2013 9:44 AM

I refuse to use HM slaves.
They're pixels, but in my imagination, they have feelings too :(

Firox August 12th, 2013 10:14 AM

I don't use "Slaves" I use HM Companions or HM Friends. I only use 2 HM's in my games - Cut, & Surf, I try and give them to a Pokemon that would benefit from them, so its not wasting a move spot for no reason.

Surf (one of my favorite attacks as well - #2 favorite just behind Aqua Tail) to my water Pokemon. Most of the time this goes to my main starter & water type, Oshawott/Dewott/Samurott.

Cut to a Normal type, since the normal types can learn TM's from other types. [most of the time to my Watchog]

*Icecold* August 13th, 2013 10:21 AM

No I set my slaves free. Pokemon like Bibarel have such wasted potential and are only caught just to be forced into slavery. I battle with this guy!

I despise HMs, but some like Surf and Strength aren't actually half bad. I try not to even use Cut and Rock Smash but when I do, I just distribute between the party. I hate wasting a slot, but you know what I hate more? Having to waste an entire Pokemon in my party, and if I deposit it I have to race all the way back to the Pokemon Center to get it. That's a waste of time! D:

Alice August 13th, 2013 10:26 AM

I've never used them. I just teach HMs to my main party.

Arlo August 13th, 2013 12:04 PM

Before Gen V, I prefer to use HM slaves, just because I don't use a set team. There's no way to distribute all the HMs between my team members because my team members constantly change. It's just easier to put all the HM moves on a couple of slaves and keep them on the team all the time, then rotate through the remaining slots.

With Gen V though, that's no longer necessary (and I think it's one of the best changes they've made in the games). Now I just travel with whoever I want and whenever I run into a situation where I need an HM move, I just teach it to whoever I've got with me who can learn it. Then when I get a chance, I go to the Move Deleter, get it taken off, then replace it with a TM move or something from the Move Relearner.

SaniOKh August 13th, 2013 12:52 PM

There was a time I was using HM slaves, but nowadays I prefer teaching HMs to my main team, one per Pokémon. Besides, Surf and Strength aren't exactly wastes of space, I find them to be OK as combat moves. Also, I think I'm one of the few who actually uses Flash in battle (mostly when I'm catching legendaries, I start by Flashing them until their accuracy goes down to the minimum) .

When I think about it, Gen 2 and 3 made spreading HM among the team quite difficult, having three water HMs and all :) . There are games where I actually have a Water HM slave, but I very rarely use them.

Melody August 13th, 2013 1:52 PM

Personally I don't like littering my team with HMs.

So I keep HM slaves handy. The only exceptions are Surf and Fly; which almost always go to my water and flying types respectively. I consider any Pokemon with 2 or more HMs to be worthless in battle so yeah, I follow that rule closely. Most HMs aren't really required to move through the overworld if you know where to fly to.

However, if you are moving through the overworld, the maps seem to obnoxiously require them. So I consider having HM (Slaves/Buddies/Friends) an absolute must, and littering your entire party with 1 HM is just suicide because it slashes your effective movesets to 3, which may not be an issue early on, but will be later. Nothing sucks worse than being stuck in battle with only an HM to fight with.

Hikamaru August 13th, 2013 3:34 PM

I don't mind using an HM slave, currently using a Bidoof in Platinum for that purpose. I used to often slap HMs on my main team members in my early playing days, but I did learn my lesson for having terrible movesets back then and now I like to assign all the "bad" HMs to an HM slave. The only exceptions are ones like Surf, Fly and Waterfall because they actually have usable purposes in battle.

T!M August 13th, 2013 3:48 PM

I have never had a designated Pokémon for Hidden Machines. I've always hated having a Pokémon I'm not intending to use for battling purposes on my team. Even when I'm trying to fill my PokéDex and I'm miles away from a PC, it irks me. I usually just teach them to my story team.

Tombo August 14th, 2013 5:50 PM

I don't like using a "HM Slave" I usually make my pokemon forget hm moves whenever I can so I can teach them other moves :D

Slave4QueenBritney August 14th, 2013 5:53 PM

OMG like TOTALLLYY I hate hm slaves so much like seriously ugh

Green Stache August 15th, 2013 2:36 AM

I hate Hms.. The fact that most of them are useless in battle when your Pokemon get stronger, and that you need to use some of them later on but don't want to ruin your perfect pokemon move set.. And the fact that you can't just forget it to learn a new move unless you go to the move deleter.. I've had cases when I learnt a awesome new move, but didn't want to get rid of my other awesome moves and had something like 'Rock Smash' in the way.. Eh. Things like Rock Smash, Flash, Waterfall, etc, I had having my pokemon being stuck with them. The only moves I like are surf (One of the best water attacks imo) and strength. The rest, I have HM slaves for, because I don't want them wasting up my pokemon move space.

Plus, things like flash, rock smash and dive, are hardly used really, and it wont kill you just to back track a little bit to swap Pokemon.

Sableye~ August 17th, 2013 9:00 AM

I use HM slaves during playthroughs, except for Surf and Fly. I've taken a liking to Flying types, so I usually end up with the early Flying/Normal 'mon in my team.

TreeKangaroo August 17th, 2013 2:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slave4QueenBritney (Post 7786000)
OMG like TOTALLLYY I hate hm slaves so much like seriously ugh

Okay...?

I use HM slaves unless if its surf because surf is awesome and most other HMs are useless like defog.

franko94 August 17th, 2013 3:58 PM

I don't use HM slaves, I distribute evenly, until they are no longer needed. Then I keep the strong ones and use the move deleter to remove cut, flash, whirlpool, defog etc.

Miau August 18th, 2013 8:52 AM

I don't actually; but only before beating the game. I don't even teach my Pokemon some HMs, like Flash. Cut gets deleted soon enough, and I can do just fine without Fly if I don't have a Flying type. Surf and Waterfall and even Strength work well in battle, so I tend to use those anyway.

Post-game though, only half of my team is used in battle, and I have a couple Pokemon that specifically carry either HM moves, or stuff like False Swipe and Sing. For example, right now in Black 2, I can't go anywhere without Azul the Wailord, who knows Strength, Surf, Waterfall and Dive, and Loony the Drifblim, who knows Cut, Fly, Flash and another move that changes according to needs.

I do want to note that I don't refer to them as HM slaves, they're as important as any other Pokemon in my team, even though they don't participate in battle, though Azul is quite bulky and Loony has also saved the day battling Normal types.

morrison August 19th, 2013 2:53 AM

Yeah i dont use hm slaves either. I am fine with having hm s on the pokemon at hand , and strngths and surf and fly are alright, and for the others, i dont use dive in this gen and rocksmash isnt used much either here so i am fine.

pompayyy August 22nd, 2013 4:10 PM

I never have used a HM slave. I really don't get the logic behind it. So you're going to waste a slot in your party so your Pokemon won't learn a few mediocre moves?

Hiatus August 23rd, 2013 8:24 AM

I usually take out the most important HMs (such as Fly, Surf, Rock Smash, etc.) and spread them out throughout my team evenly, because I don't like wasting a slot in my team just for having an HM Pokémon. The only time that I've ever used an HM slave was in my first run of Pokémon Diamond. I caught a Bibarel, and I later found out that it was compatible with most of the HMs I needed. I felt kind of bad about it, though, because Pokémon are actually supposed to be your friends. They're not supposed to be the ones to work for you. D:

Yumetaro September 1st, 2013 4:03 PM

Nah, I like to spread my HMs evenly throughout my team. After all, it wastes a space on your team, that wouldn't be very good for the Elite Four and stuff.

BubbleBeams September 1st, 2013 5:33 PM

I've never really liked using HM slaves and I never did when I was younger, but I've also learned that it's much nicer to have my team's movepool more open.

I like having moves like Surf, Fly, and Strength on my team as I feel they are actually good moves. But moves like Flash, Rock Smash, etc... I really don't care for. Waterfall is okay, I guess, but I usually only have one water-type on my team and I'm not huge on having more than one attack of the same type on my individual Pokemon (with the exception of status moves like Thunder Wave, Toxic, etc..)

I didn't like using an HM slave at first because of having to put on of my team members in the box, but I usually just throw the highest level Pokemon I have in the box. It actually works out because then I can focus on my Pokemon who may not be as well trained and get them up to the level I need them at.

Shrew September 1st, 2013 7:33 PM

I don't use HM Slaves... I use HM Heroes. :) What? I love the contributions each and every one of my pokemon provide, so they deserve to be recognized with a polite name.

The reason why I don't like teaching my main team HMs is because I don't want to clog up a moveslot. I think HMs should be both forgettable and broader in newer games.

For instance, "CUT" would be a category of moves, including Cut, Slash X-Scissor, Psycho Cut, Razor Leaf, Leaf Blade, and so forth. It wouldn't force you to use a specific low base power move, but just having any cut-like move would work.

For "STRENGTH", you could use Strength, Rock Slide, Seismic Toss, or even Psychic. It makes sense that a psychic-type should be able to move obstables out of the way, right?

Okay, I'm getting off-topic with this idea. But until something that doesn't make HMs a burden, I'm still going to keep using HM Heroes.

WhiteKnightL September 1st, 2013 7:40 PM

Even if they're sprites, I feel like I should respect my Pokemon enough to give them a decent name. Though I admit I have a Watchog with mostly HMs, and Crunch for attacking.

It's fairly convenient for some, like Samurott, to have an HM like Waterfall in conjunction with Swords Dance for battle.

pokemasta92 September 2nd, 2013 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shrew (Post 7813682)
I don't use HM Slaves... I use HM Heroes. :) What? I love the contributions each and every one of my pokemon provide, so they deserve to be recognized with a polite name.

The reason why I don't like teaching my main team HMs is because I don't want to clog up a moveslot. I think HMs should be both forgettable and broader in newer games.

For instance, "CUT" would be a category of moves, including Cut, Slash X-Scissor, Psycho Cut, Razor Leaf, Leaf Blade, and so forth. It wouldn't force you to use a specific low base power move, but just having any cut-like move would work.

For "STRENGTH", you could use Strength, Rock Slide, Seismic Toss, or even Psychic. It makes sense that a psychic-type should be able to move obstables out of the way, right?

Okay, I'm getting off-topic with this idea. But until something that doesn't make HMs a burden, I'm still going to keep using HM Heroes.

That's a great idea! I have too thought that before. That certain moves could obviously in real life have the same effect as the HM moves even though they aren't HM's. That's seriously a good idea, like so good that I hope more people start talking about it and spread the word.

Amore September 12th, 2013 2:27 PM

That would be a great idea. Personally I find it varies. Right now in LeafGreen, I just taught HMs to my team members - even though I've changed my team a bit (already dropped Butterfree and Raichu, only got 5 badges. Contemplating Swapping another member too), I know I'll have those 5 all the time. Plus, the fact that there are only 5 HMs helps. That and that moves have a type - so it's not like with Kadabra I think "I don't want Flash, it takes up Shadow Ball's slot" because moves such as Shadow Ball are physical in Gen III.
In Gen V I also tend to teach my team members HMs - partially because of the reduced number, but also because tms are relearnable.

I have used HM slaves though, or a pokémon that only has 1 HM that other team members can't use, particularly in Diamond, Platinum and Emerald (those darn water moves!). The doubling of Rock Smash's power does help a little in Gen IV, particularly if I use Chimchar (Scizor's a beast with it in HeartGold too). It does annoy me having to ditch a team-member to traverse a route - in HeartGold the fact that you need Rock Climb for Mount Silver really irritates me, as I've usually used a lot of tms by that stage.

blue September 12th, 2013 4:48 PM

I don't tend to use HM Slaves, the two HMs that I mainly use are Fly and Surf and since the majority of the time I have a Water and Flying-type on my team I tend to assign those HMS to those Pokémon.

zirico September 12th, 2013 5:27 PM

I do what the OP does, always have done as I hate switching between pokemon. I like to build a team of six and stick to it.

Calamitastrophe September 12th, 2013 6:55 PM

I would definitely prefer to have a dedicated Surf'er (and other Water-type HMs) and Fly'er on my main team, but sometimes I just can't find or get a Pokemon I really like that can use those. So I just bring in a slave as the need arises. I'll keep slaves for the other HMs, though, just because it feels like a huge handicap on a Pokemon to use those moves. Because of this, I'll venture into caves with one, two, or even three slaves in extreme cases.

But Surf, Waterfall, Fly, and Strength are all pretty solid enough moves, to me. I try to use them when I can.

pokemasta92 September 13th, 2013 10:05 AM

Glad to hear everyone's opinion and see that some people play the way I do. :D

pokemasta92 September 14th, 2013 8:14 PM

I added a poll sooo let the voting begin!

DynalMaestro September 14th, 2013 8:28 PM

I dont really use hmslaves and i prefer to distribute the Hm's unless the Hm is cut or rock smash then i teach it to a random pokemon i caught that i will probably never use in battle

ChipmunkGamingInc. September 15th, 2013 8:31 AM

I must highly agree with you. HM slaves are simply wrong. They sound wrong, and they don't serve a purpose.

You don't train them, you don't care about them, so what happens if all you Pokemon are defeated and all you have is an exceptionally weak HM slave?

If you play through the game without HM slaves, you'll have a heck of an easier time. For example, my starter Pokemon, an Empoleon, knows both Rock Smash and Cut. I actually taught him Cut yesterday. Why? It's a fairly good move. I've destroyed my friends' teams through just Cut.

One Pokemon I didn't realize had all HM moves was my Level 100 Quagsire. I use him most of the time, and he's one of my main competitors. He knows Surf, Dive, Waterfall, and Flash.

HM slaves are unloved, unused, and under-leveled. If you're going to have an HM slave, at least train it along with your other Pokemon.

Pokemon_Trainer_Danny September 15th, 2013 8:57 AM

I use HM slaves, but I never keep them in the team, because most HMs become obsolete at a point because there are a lot of moves that are better. The only HMs that stay useful in battle, IMO, are Surf and Strength. I never teach HMs to Pokémon I battle with.

Cerberus87 September 15th, 2013 8:59 AM

The only reason people complain about HM slaves is because of the term "slave". In games like Emerald and Platinum, are you really going to waste precious move slots with stuff like Rock Climb and Dive? I don't think so.

The OP has a Wailord with all the Water HMs. Well that means you can move about easily, but it also means the Wailord is going to be destroyed by anything it can't attack effectively. It's really just a glorified HM slave in the end.

That being said, a valid argument for HM usage can be made because there are a few Pokémon in the game which don't fully utilize their moveslots in a playthrough. But still, I'd rather have Curse in my Torterra than Strength, which is a move that doesn't add coverage and isn't very strong.

I learned the need for HM slaves in Pokémon Gold. Feraligatr couldn't learn Waterfall back then, and, since I had already chosen it as my Water-type Pokémon, I had to have an HM slave for the purpose of beating the game.

Gfx September 15th, 2013 9:05 AM

I have certain HMs distributed through my team. But I don't use Flash at all. Cut and Rock Smash are the only ones I really put on a weaker Pokemon and just get them when I need it. I don't like a full party of 6 normally anyways. Too much balanced training leaves them weak.

pokemasta92 September 15th, 2013 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChipmunkGamingInc. (Post 7834036)
I must highly agree with you. HM slaves are simply wrong. They sound wrong, and they don't serve a purpose.

You don't train them, you don't care about them, so what happens if all you Pokemon are defeated and all you have is an exceptionally weak HM slave?

If you play through the game without HM slaves, you'll have a heck of an easier time. For example, my starter Pokemon, an Empoleon, knows both Rock Smash and Cut. I actually taught him Cut yesterday. Why? It's a fairly good move. I've destroyed my friends' teams through just Cut.

One Pokemon I didn't realize had all HM moves was my Level 100 Quagsire. I use him most of the time, and he's one of my main competitors. He knows Surf, Dive, Waterfall, and Flash.

HM slaves are unloved, unused, and under-leveled. If you're going to have an HM slave, at least train it along with your other Pokemon.

Finally, someone has the exact same opinion as me! I like to have a full team of 6 Pokémon and I train them all evenly, so there's no way I'm giving all of the HM's to 2 Pokémon. How will they hold their own in battle? They won't and I don't like that. I would honestly feel bad if 2 of my 6 Pokémon were useless in battle, which is why I refuse to play that way because for me personally, using "HM Slaves" actually makes the game less enjoyable. I don't understand how people have a hard time beating the game with HM's on their team. If you train a Pokémon to level 100, and it has 1-2 HM's, you still have 2 powerful moves. I don't see the difficulty. I'm not talking competitive battling, I'm talking about the "single player campaign" ^_^
And like you said you've used HM's in competitive battling and still kicked butt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 7834073)
The only reason people complain about HM slaves is because of the term "slave". In games like Emerald and Platinum, are you really going to waste precious move slots with stuff like Rock Climb and Dive? I don't think so.

Yes I am.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 7834073)
The OP has a Wailord with all the Water HMs. Well that means you can move about easily, but it also means the Wailord is going to be destroyed by anything it can't attack effectively. It's really just a glorified HM slave in the end.

The only reason Wailord has all 3 water HM's is because I don't like to use more than 1 Pokémon of the same type in my party, which is a common strategy. The only water HM another Pokémon in my party can learn is Surf on Aggron, but I try to make moves have STAB whenever possible so I kept it on Wailord. If a grass or electric Pokémon is brought out I'll just switch Pokémon. If there were less water HM's in generation 3 then Wailord would obviously not have them. He's not a slave!

pokemasta92 September 15th, 2013 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 7834073)
The only reason people complain about HM slaves is because of the term "slave". In games like Emerald and Platinum, are you really going to waste precious move slots with stuff like Rock Climb and Dive? I don't think so.

Yes I am.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 7834073)
The OP has a Wailord with all the Water HMs. Well that means you can move about easily, but it also means the Wailord is going to be destroyed by anything it can't attack effectively. It's really just a glorified HM slave in the end.

The only reason Wailord has all 3 water HM's is because I don't like to use more than 1 Pokémon of the same type in my party, which is a common strategy. The only water HM another Pokémon in my party can learn is Surf on Aggron, but I try to make moves have STAB whenever possible so I kept it on Wailord. If a grass or electric Pokémon is brought out I'll just switch Pokémon. If there were less water HM's in generation 3 then Wailord would obviously not have them. And unlike typical "HM Slaves", I actually train Wailord to the same level as my other Pokémon and use him in battle. He's not a slave!

WhiteKnightL September 15th, 2013 12:35 PM

I try to keep the more important HMs (Fly and Surf, mainly) on as few Pokemon as possible. I have a Vaporeon and a Swanna that know Surf, while I gave my Tranquill (now an Unfezant) Fly until I beat the game. At that point I gave Fly to my Swanna, and then to a Pidgey I transferred from my Soul Silver file.

One of my Audinos has Flash, my Mienshao, Watchog, and Weavile both have Strength, and my Weavile and Watchog have Cut. Pretty much all the Pokemon I use for HM purposes, though I admit I feel bad for my Watchog since the only non-HM move it has is Crunch.

80C September 15th, 2013 12:40 PM

No, In Generation 1 & 2 usually I teach moves like Surf or Strenght to some powerful pokemon of the team while the pokemon that know CUT, FLASH or something else of those "weak" HM Moves are always deposited in the PC and withdrew at the moment.
Gen 3 is an exception that I will explain a few later.

I think this fact of the HM Slaves is more common from Gen.3 and above, because the total amount of HMs was increased as well as the HM object obstacles - in R\S\E there are more rocks that you need to break (a lot more) and a lot of trees (in R\B\Y & G\S\C there weren't so many).

I think many people here that played R\S\E would admit that they (ab)used of HM Slaves (or maybe instead "occasional" HM Slaves) expecially in the Victory Path because in there you have to use almost every HM Move in the game (Flash, Rock break, surf, waterfall and strenght).

Magykx September 15th, 2013 2:05 PM

I normally use HMs such as Surf and Waterfall on my main water type, but useless HMs like Cut, etc. I just use a slave for.

BourbonWhiskey September 18th, 2013 7:53 PM

Me. A waste of slot, IMO. I want to play my game with the Pokemon I like the most. I could just go back to the center and get the HM Pokemon I need whenever I need them.

Guy September 19th, 2013 2:46 AM

I don't like using HM Slaves only because they take up space, but at the same time I'd rather not give weaker moves to my main party Pokémon. It takes away the fun from having a more diverse move pool when you have to cater to adding HM moves too. So normally I'd keep an HM Slave with me until I'm ready for my final team member. By then I'd just store it in a PC Box and take it out whenever the time calls for it. I prefer catching a Pokémon who can learn at least three, if not four, of the HMs so that way I don't have to have more than one. The only exceptional HM moves I teach to my main party would be Fly, Surf, and Waterfall because they're used frequently and also because they don't suck.

Black Dynamite September 19th, 2013 2:54 AM

if only hm's were separate from the 4 move pool.
i always loved surf though i felt it was the water equivalent of thunderbolt, flamethrower and ice beam.

the closest thing i had to a hm slave was my rhydon, which new strength, rock smash and cut but also knew earthquake. and it was the same level as my other pokemon.
also one of my gyarados' knew waterfall dive and surf. but they're all somewhat strong so i dnt mind too much.

Mia Mew September 19th, 2013 6:20 PM

I'm glad someone finally understands what I mean! I split them up, always. I feel like it's unfair to pile it all on one Pokemon. I know the HMs aren't really good for competitive battling (except for surf?) but I was never much into that stuff anyways.

pokemasta92 September 20th, 2013 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by idankingo (Post 7782145)
Also off-topic: You gave your starter HM?! Such bad trainers make me sick :)

I was going to address this comment earlier, but I guess I will now.
Yes I gave my starter an HM move. You know why? Because I can. There isn't a rule that says I have to play a certain way. I play the way I find enjoyable the same as everyone else. Not to mention that I had no trouble beating the game with my starter having an HM. Why are people so obsessed with move slots? Some people act like after they attack with 1 move they have to use the next. There are 3 other good moves he knows, all of which are STAB. I have had zero problems using him in battle. I know it will still sound foolish to you because of your opinion, but if you didn't notice Rock Smash is the only Fighting HM, and Blaziken is the only Pokémon in my party that is a Fighting type. So out of all the Pokémon I have Blaziken does the most damage with Rock Smash. That's smart in my book.

Elaitenstile September 20th, 2013 4:43 AM

Me. Don't like HM Slaves since... ever. I make it a point to never use em except for challenges and all that... because it's not worth it. There was another discussion related to this and I'll say the same: it enhances the gameplay when you take along the difficulties with you, it gives a feel of actually "playing" a game if you add your own realism to it. One of the reasons why I enjoy Pokémon, I suppose. My view isn't going to change anytime soon either.

Mithel_Celestia September 20th, 2013 6:09 AM

HM Slaves tend to waste precious space for more stronger Pokemon. I tend to use strong enough or useful enough HMs on my team if it deems fit to them. Other less useful HMs (ex. Cut) is used on a temporary HM slave which I will box until a path needs it.

pokemasta92 September 20th, 2013 12:01 PM

Using HM Slaves just takes away from the realism and fun of the game.
Do you guys think a real life Pokémon trainer would come across a big boulder blocking the way, to then walk all the way back to the previous town (Or Fly, but you still have to walk back in game. You could still fly back in real life.), go to the Pokémon Center, use the PC, deposit one of your good Pokémon because you already have a full team, take out a weak HM Slave that knows the move you need, walk all the way back, just to move the boulder? I don't think so. Yeah you've cleared the way now, but the problem is now you only have 5 Pokémon of your main team. If you want the 6th back I guess you could go back to the previous town and get it, but oh wait now the boulder reset. Even in real life where a boulder wouldn't reset, a real person wouldn't walk to and back and to and back a town. That would even be too much flying. So your only choice now is to continue on, but now you won't be able to use your 6th Pokémon on the trainers or Pokémon that are ahead. Once you get to the next town you can take it out the PC, but it will not have any more experience that it should have gotten along the way. It might sound like no big deal to some people, but this is a problem I have which is why I strongly dislike using HM Slaves. Obviously I would never use a team with HM moves competitively, but I'm talking purely single player here, the main game.

OmegaTL September 20th, 2013 1:01 PM

I generally just spread them around my team a bit, teaching no more than 1 HM to permanent team members. I sometimes catch an HM slave if none of the Pokémon on my team can learn that move though. It usually stops me from using my usual in-game team in competitive battles, but I don't mind.

Jimmyray September 20th, 2013 4:02 PM

There's only a handful of crappy HM's in each game, enough for just one slave, or to be distributed among your in-game team without restricting you too much. As much as it is annoying to get to a late game 'Cut' tree and not have anything that knows Cut, it is equally as annoying when, say, your Krookodile wants to learn Outrage but it already knows Earthquake, Stone Edge, Crunch & Cut and you know what you want to delete but you can't. Depends which problem you'd rather be faced with. The good thing about gen 5 games is you could delete any TM move for a move like Outrage, then go to the move deleter, get rid of the HM and then re-teach the TM move without losing the TM itself. I would normally try and incorporate the HM's into my team. E.g. in White I kept Strength on Stoutland throughout and it was actually a really good STAB move, and Fly is never a bad shout in-game, but moves like Rock Climb, Defog, Rock Smash, Cut & Flash can be a pain when they are HM's and not TM's.

Colress Machine September 23rd, 2013 4:50 AM

I don't use them at all because they take up space on my team. If I need to use HMs I just go to the Pokemon Center and grab one with the move. Sometimes I teach HMs to my team members like Surf and Fly.

SoundDesperado September 25th, 2013 7:08 AM

I wish HMs were never put into Pokemon. The moves can stay but what they shouldv'e done instead is have a seperate stat screen that shows up to 8 different abilities. If it had that ability and the according badge then they should be able to do that action. Why should I teach a Staraptor to Fly? Why should the ability to push a boulder take up a move slot for something more useful. I generally start with a HM slave, then when I reach the Move Deleter, I get rid of HMs I don't need after a while like Cut and Dive.

Eevee September 25th, 2013 2:50 PM

I do a mixture of the last two options in the poll. In the beginning of the game, I used to make many of the Pokemon in my team have the HMs and then let them forget the move later on to make room for better moves. I've never had actual Pokemon with all their moves (or most) being HMs.

Then once I beat the game, I'll end up switching my teams around but always have at least one Pokemon in my PC to have an HM move (or more). The only HM I constantly have in my party is Fly because, well, Fly is REALLY useful. :P

Rengoku September 25th, 2013 3:16 PM

Hmm, the only HMs I keep on my actual team are Fly, Surf and Waterfall.

The rest are on HM Slaves/ Other suitable Pokemon that I am not using.

«Chuckles» September 25th, 2013 4:01 PM

I will teach surf to more than 1 pokemon if they allow me to because it has equal attack power to hydro pump but with more PP... when it comes to cut I will keep it until a move like slash comes along then with strength im normally okay with that waterfall and dive go onto a water pokemon since I will probably use them against rock or fire at some point...

then

theres

flash I will never use flash I will look up a map of the cave on google its useless and finding pokemon for it are hard.

Captain Oshawott September 25th, 2013 4:43 PM

I don't technically have 'HM Slaves'. I always have a Flying, Water, and Fighting type on my team, so that already covers Strength, Rocksmash, Fly, and of course Surf/Waterfall/etc.

Cut is usually on my team until I can get the move deleter to remove it, so I've never really designated a member of my team STRICTLY for HM slaving.

atomtanned October 4th, 2013 6:39 PM

I used to spread my HMs around my party, but I decided to try something new in my current Platinum playthrough. I have my most needed HMs (Surf, Rock Smash, Strength, Cut) on my Bibarel, Beavis... and I do actually use her to battle (I don't usually carry another water type with me, so she fills that need with Surf). I absolutely cannot be without Fly, but I teach that to most of my bird Pokemon and just rotate them out.

It isn't a horrible strategy. I like not having to go back to Pokemon Centers for a Pokemon with the right HM, and it doesn't seem like it'd be that bad for Beavis anyways. She's always in the party (I switch everyone else out pretty frequently) and I do use her in battle.

NotThatOneAgain October 22nd, 2013 12:49 AM

Tentacruel with Surf, Waterfall, Cut and Dive. Usually levels it up with the rest of my team. Should be able to act as a "last resort" when every other Pokemon has fainted (in a cave, for instance).

moon October 22nd, 2013 1:02 AM

Depends on if I want to make a team near endgame where I have customized and perfected all the moves, or if I just want to play through the game and story and maybe not care about having the most perfect team ever in the end. In the old games, Yellow version for instance, I usually spread the HMs between my teammates. Cut, Fly, Strength and Surf at least; Flash is a bit more redundant.

Murkrow October 22nd, 2013 3:34 AM

lets look at the moves (gen1 to gen5):
Cut
u get it early game and it seem decent as a normal type move but it get outclassed by almost every other moves not called tackle or scratch

Fly
pretty good move actually ingame, especially in later gens when its power is buffed

Surf
very good water move

Strength
better than cut but by this point in the game there are stronger moves like return

Flash
waste of a slot really.

waterfall
very good water move as well

whirlpool
zzz

rock climb
quite good at least power wise its better than rock slide

defog
competitive move (gen6 actually) not for ingame

hence not many hm moves are good and the slot it occupies could be used for something better easily. hence the reason slaves are used. for me i don't train a full party so i always have slots available for hm slaves

Sabrewulf238 October 22nd, 2013 4:39 AM

I don't like having slaves on my team during the story. Particularly because I usually have more than six pokemon I'm interested in using on my team so it would feel like a massive waste. Team space is already reserved for the "privileged" few. I usually only have surf on my team because it's a good move.

I often have hm slaves during the post game though when I'm going back over what I missed.

SpokeyDokey October 22nd, 2013 8:40 AM

I like my Sandslash slave, thank you. He sits in my PC until he is needed.

LordGilbunny October 22nd, 2013 9:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabrewulf238 (Post 7894981)
I don't like having slaves on my team during the story. Particularly because I usually have more than six pokemon I'm interested in using on my team so it would feel like a massive waste. Team space is already reserved for the "privileged" few. I usually only have surf on my team because it's a good move.

I often have hm slaves during the post game though when I'm going back over what I missed.

Sabrewulf I agree with you entirely. I don't see the point of wasting one or two spaces for an hm slave(s). That and even if you teach your pokemon hms you can easily makes them forget those moves with the move deleter.

§1 October 22nd, 2013 9:33 AM

not sure what you mean...
i run a pickup team in-game, and i have the HMs divided amongst them...which is the point.
they're a team for exploring, gathering resources, and using the fun moves that are usually discarded (like metronome). so kinda i view them as HM slaves, but that isn't their sole purpose...

Reecho October 22nd, 2013 9:58 PM

In Y I got a pancham that I taught Rocksmash, Strength, Cut and False Swipe. I used her to catch weaker pokemon. I dont really think of her as a HM slave.

acatfrommars October 22nd, 2013 10:21 PM

When I play through a game regularly I do not like to have HM slaves. Normally I will distribute the HMs evenly among my team. That way I build a team from the start and work my way up using the HMs.

However, when I am simply doing a quick run through or trying to be quick for a challenge I will use one or two HM slaves. I prefer them then because I can focus on three or four powerhouse pokemon and speed through the challenge.

27thColt October 26th, 2013 3:10 PM

I don't use HM slaves, but when I do, I GET SO ANNOYED!

ChaoTachi October 26th, 2013 10:37 PM

As much as I'd like to learn all HMs so that I can get through the game easily, I get annoyed when I learn a good move and the only bad move I can delete is the HM itself.

Thunder Flare October 27th, 2013 4:13 AM

Poor Pancham is now doomed to be my HM slave. Not only can he learn Cut, Surf, and Strength, but he's also able to learn Rock Smash and Dig. I usually catch one useless water type to cover Surf and Waterfall (there are so many of them). I'm perfectly cool with Pokemon in my party knowing Fly. That attack is awesome.

~*!*~Tatsujin Gosuto~*!*~ October 27th, 2013 3:14 PM

I have two Pokemon that I will always consider HM slaves and they are Bibarel and Golduck and thats because all of their moves consists of HM's only. But when it comes to my Pokemon team, I always have at least one Pokemon that knows one of the following HM's: Surf, Fly and Strength. I dont have a problem putting HM moves on my inteam because I dont use them for competitve battling.


:t354:TG

PumpJack October 27th, 2013 4:02 PM

I've always wanted to make a ROM Hack, and one of my top priorities is to do away with HMs so they don't take up a move slot.

Just because your Wailord doesn't have "Surf" in its movset shouldn't mean that it suddenly went full retard and forgot how to swim.

Elvoz October 28th, 2013 2:35 AM

I hate HM slaves and never use them. However, sometimes it's really annoying that some of the HMs aren't very good in battle (Cut, Flash etc.). I still have a small spark of hope that in future Pokemon games, the HM moves will become useful in battle :P

MiniMinun October 28th, 2013 3:50 AM

When I just started playing pokemon games, I don't think HMs differed to normal moves in my eyes and I probably didn't even know what a HM slave is, so my Charizard knew rock smash and strength. (I believe)
But after that I soon realized that most HMs were useless in battle so I stopped giving them to my party. I didn't designate one HM slave, but I passed them around throughout my PC.
Although for my X playthrough I decided to just have one HM slave and to try it out. And yes, it is veeeeery useful.
But with all that said, some HMs are actually useful in battle. My flying pokemon ALWAYS knows Fly and my water type sometimes knows Surf, because I think both moves have around 90 base power. Even Strength has a good solid 80.

Dumerili October 29th, 2013 8:37 PM

I used to use HM slaves but now I try to spread HMs out into my team. No matter what you're wasting something whether it be a pokemon or a move slot, I find that it works better to have all my pokemon battle-ready even if they only have 3 non-HM moves than it does to have only 5 battle-ready pokemon. It seems like as long as the other 3 moves are carefully chosen it doesn't matter if one of the moves is an HM.

Ig Pokemon Lover October 29th, 2013 8:46 PM

No i kind of find that being mean to Pokemon making them HM Slaves.

curiousnathan October 29th, 2013 10:19 PM

I don't like to be mean to my Pokemon, but one of them has to server as my HM slave haha. It's either I catch a HM slave or incorporate HMs into the movesets of my party and I'm not fond of the latter except for Surf and maybe Fly. :p

Relica October 30th, 2013 3:20 PM

While I certainly hate the idea of using a HM slave, I view it as a necessary evil. I rather it be that all HMs were actually items (I.E. Hedge clippers to substitute for cut) so I didn't have to waste a Pokemon's potential to give it all HM moves, however, I consider it worse to actually give HMs to the Pokemon I was planning to use on my team in the first place since most of them (Fly, Waterfall, and Surf excluded to varying degrees) are pretty terrible moves overall. Now with tackle being an even more reliable and overall better move than cut I have to question why they're still around at all outside of annoyance factor.

Marionz October 30th, 2013 4:15 PM

i wish they make HM's a key item and pokemons who can use the HM move can access the move from the field without touching its original moves.

Ckbruin October 31st, 2013 1:31 AM

HMs are a pain to get rid of (well, at the beginning of a game, anyhow), but honestly, they're pretty decent moves - a few of them better than most of the TMs (namely Surf and Fly). I never find the need to use HM slaves, and if I do need to use HMs, I usually split them up amongst my team (as I almost ALWAYS have a Surfing Pokemon, a Rock Smash/Strength Pokemon, a Flying Pokemon (for convenience), and any miscellaneous HMs learned by my team, if necessary) Sure, HMs annoying to be on your team until near the end of the game, but they provide a slightly more difficult experience to the game (which itself has gotten significantly easier since previous generations, let's be honest...) I believe I've even had to resort to using an HM slave once during one of my challenges... it irked me to the end.

tl;dr - No, I don't like using HM Slaves. I'm not an opponent of using HM slaves, but I don't advocate or support such usage unless absolutely necessary.


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