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-   -   6th Gen X and Y (Behind the name.) (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=308734)

Mithel_Celestia September 19th, 2013 4:47 AM

X and Y (Behind the name.)
 
As mentioned on the final portion of this article: (http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/09/19/men-are-from-mars-pokemon-x-and-y-are-from-france) the names have, afterall, been influence by the 3 dimensional axis in geometrics

Spoiler:
“The names of X and Y represent the philosophy we had behind the two games,” explained Yoshida. “We’ve taken the idea of X and Y from the geometric X- and Y-axes. They represent two different ways of thought. At the same time, we want to convey a message encouraging people to find a common ground, where X and Y converge.”


This also brings the possibility of version Z a step further. So let me hear your opinion on this below.

WingedDragon September 19th, 2013 6:20 AM

Interesting thoughts on this. One would think that a Z game would be coming soon or X2/Y2 what ever the case maybe

Gigabyyyte September 19th, 2013 6:28 AM

OH YEAH Z! I'd love Z. Does that mean we also get like a counterpart to Xerneas and Yveltal? Yeah, probably named sorta like Zekrom oh I don't know. :3

Boilurn September 19th, 2013 6:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithel_Celestia (Post 7839963)
As mentioned on the final portion of this article: (http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/09/19/men-are-from-mars-pokemon-x-and-y-are-from-france) the names have, after all, been influence by the 3 dimensional axis in geometrics

Spoiler:
“The names of X and Y represent the philosophy we had behind the two games,” explained Yoshida. “We’ve taken the idea of X and Y from the geometric X- and Y-axes. They represent two different ways of thought. At the same time, we want to convey a message encouraging people to find a common ground, where X and Y converge.”

This gives me an idea. Maybe the Z legendary will be shaped like a well-recognized 3D animal? I sure hope the typing will be different to the other two as well, maybe Normal/Ground?

MrGriszell September 19th, 2013 7:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boilurn (Post 7840068)
This gives me an idea. Maybe the Z legendary will be shaped like a well-recognized 3D animal? I sure hope the typing will be different to the other two as well, maybe Normal/Ground?

Well I'm glad it's not based off genetics , those theories weren't that that good

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire September 19th, 2013 7:53 AM

So they were named after Axis after all! I knew it! However GF did a nice player on wo...letters here by adding genetics into these games xD

SaniOKh September 19th, 2013 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrGriszell (Post 7840117)
Well I'm glad it's not based off genetics , those theories weren't that that good

Maybe they weren't good, but they didn't come out of nowhere: there were little things in Japanese logos that looked very much like DNA helixes; and then there was Mewtwo... but yeah, now that there is an official statement, I have to admit I was wrong ^^.

BeefTaco September 19th, 2013 10:16 AM

I liked the genetic engineering theories, but this is nice too. It is more ambiguous this way so the plot it's more secretive.

Xander Olivieri September 19th, 2013 10:25 AM

I think genetic theme had way more going for it than the dimensional axis theme. There's really not much they can do with it and now is actually a blatant carbon copy of Black and White as the way that they explain it. X thinking and Y thinking, finding common ground between the two thoughts. Its the same as saying one thinks black and the other thinks white while the two are trying to find a common area to work the differences out.

There are way more genetic themes in the game than directional theme, we can physically change our appearance which is a manipulation of genetics, the Pokemon gain a new form change which is a manipulation of genetics...

This theme choice is rather unimaginative.

Superjub September 19th, 2013 10:27 AM

I guess Pokemon Z is more possible than ever. :p Then again, they could always pull a "B2/W2" on us or perhaps not even make a 3rd game this time around. Only time will tell. :)

Xander Olivieri September 19th, 2013 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retribution (Post 7840303)
I guess Pokemon Z is more possible than ever. :p Then again, they could always pull a "B2/W2" on us or perhaps not even make a 3rd game this time around. Only time will tell. :)

If the rumor of them having "All Pokemon" in the game is true as in we can catch all 700+, then there is no need for a third game or remakes as all the Pokemon are there available for us.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire September 19th, 2013 3:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XanderO (Post 7840300)
I think genetic theme had way more going for it than the dimensional axis theme. There's really not much they can do with it and now is actually a blatant carbon copy of Black and White as the way that they explain it. X thinking and Y thinking, finding common ground between the two thoughts. Its the same as saying one thinks black and the other thinks white while the two are trying to find a common area to work the differences out.

There are way more genetic themes in the game than directional theme, we can physically change our appearance which is a manipulation of genetics, the Pokemon gain a new form change which is a manipulation of genetics...

This theme choice is rather unimaginative.

Even though I'm glad to see I was right on the theme {XD} one has to admit it's not all that creative...as this is a 3DS game...and the 3D axis' are XY and Z...

Yeah, hopefully that won't be true...as it'll also eliminate the chance of sequels...

Shrew September 19th, 2013 5:30 PM

Just as how the interviewer thought X chromosome ties in with feminity and Y chromosome ties in with masculinity, the X-axis and Xerneas ties in with flat ground (Geomancy anyone?), and the Y-axis and Yveltal representing the skies.

Has anyone read about how Xerneas and Yveltal may be based off of Norse mythology?


Quote:

Originally Posted by Colin McIsaac, from the above article
What’s also intriguing about this theory is how well it ties into the already understood ideas of the 3D plane. Yveltal of Asgard represents the Y-axis through its large wings and gift of flight. Meanwhile, Xerneas of Midgard is restricted to the ground by its lack of wings, forced only to walk horizontally the surface of the Earth, or the X-axis, if you will. The third Pokémon, based on Niohoggr, can be assumed to crawl back and forth across the roots of this tree, which spread in all directions. Much like how the Z-axis can be placed anywhere among the X and Y axes to form a 3D plane, the roots of Yggdrasil are not bound by a constant height.

Although Masuda's brief explanation in the interview may have seemed bland, I believe there's more depth to this than what he chose to disclose.

Guy September 19th, 2013 5:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XanderO (Post 7840300)
I think genetic theme had way more going for it than the dimensional axis theme. There's really not much they can do with it and now is actually a blatant carbon copy of Black and White as the way that they explain it. X thinking and Y thinking, finding common ground between the two thoughts. Its the same as saying one thinks black and the other thinks white while the two are trying to find a common area to work the differences out.

There are way more genetic themes in the game than directional theme, we can physically change our appearance which is a manipulation of genetics, the Pokemon gain a new form change which is a manipulation of genetics...

This theme choice is rather unimaginative.

I agree, unfortunately. However, despite the choice of theme there's no doubt that genetics had an influence here. You, yourself, pointing out quite a few of them.

Xander Olivieri September 19th, 2013 6:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shrew (Post 7840688)
Just as how the interviewer thought X chromosome ties in with feminity and Y chromosome ties in with masculinity, the X-axis and Xerneas ties in with flat ground (Geomancy anyone?), and the Y-axis and Yveltal representing the skies.

Has anyone read about how Xerneas and Yveltal may be based off of Norse mythology?




Although Masuda's brief explanation in the interview may have seemed bland, I believe there's more depth to this than what he chose to disclose.

Geomancy is a form of fortunetelling using the earth as the divining center. It doesn't have anything to do with X or Y axis. While the earth is basically the plane in which the X axis exists on, remember that not all forms of earth are flat and level. Mountain reach up into the sky which could create a Y axis for the Earth making the earth represent both Axis in this case as it measures the linear path across and above the surface.

Earth itself doesn't have much to do with X or Y axis. Nor has any of the symbolism shown in X and Y have been shown to relate to any Axis other than the consol in which the games are made for (which kinds defeats the purpose as there is a 2DS coming out on the same day and the 2D plane doesn't have an X and Y Axis if I recall. The full functioning symbolism was around it being on the 3DS and we'll have a 2DS to play it on as well so we can play X and Y in 2D only on those.)

The 4th Gen Mascots fit the X and Y axis theme way better than the two we currently have.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire September 19th, 2013 6:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XanderO (Post 7840735)
Geomancy is a form of fortunetelling using the earth as the divining center. It doesn't have anything to do with X or Y axis. While the earth is basically the plane in which the X axis exists on, remember that not all forms of earth are flat and level. Mountain reach up into the sky which could create a Y axis for the Earth making the earth represent both Axis in this case as it measures the linear path across and above the surface.

Earth itself doesn't have much to do with X or Y axis. Nor has any of the symbolism shown in X and Y have been shown to relate to any Axis other than the consol in which the games are made for (which kinds defeats the purpose as there is a 2DS coming out on the same day and the 2D plane doesn't have an X and Y Axis if I recall. The full functioning symbolism was around it being on the 3DS and we'll have a 2DS to play it on as well so we can play X and Y in 2D only on those.)

The 4th Gen Mascots fit the X and Y axis theme way better than the two we currently have.

Actually the Gen IV mascots were W and the XYZ as Time is W and Space is XYZ so they weren't one dimensional in their powers either (okay Dialga was, but not Palkia)

However you're right on the 3DS being the reason for the names.

GeckoPutt September 19th, 2013 6:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XanderO (Post 7840735)
Earth itself doesn't have much to do with X or Y axis. Nor has any of the symbolism shown in X and Y have been shown to relate to any Axis other than the consol in which the games are made for (which kinds defeats the purpose as there is a 2DS coming out on the same day and the 2D plane doesn't have an X and Y Axis if I recall. The full functioning symbolism was around it being on the 3DS and we'll have a 2DS to play it on as well so we can play X and Y in 2D only on those.)

The 4th Gen Mascots fit the X and Y axis theme way better than the two we currently have.

Excuse me if I come across rude here as that certainly isn't my intention, but for the sake of discussion, I feel that is a very naïve opinion to make considering that we know very little about these two legendary creatures. For all we know, they might have features, characteristics, abilities, moves or backgrounds that really link them to the dimensional axes - personally, the fact that one is based on the land, and one on the sky puts them well into fitting with the X & Y axes, well, for me anyway.

Whilst I get your point about the 4th Gen Mascots fitting the X and Y axis theme well - and I agree somewhat (although I think you're getting confused between your letters, as time is represented by the letter 'W' within scientific purposes) - I think that we need to make sure that we are not making opinions that are baseless considering that the quantity of information on these mascots are sparse at best.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire September 19th, 2013 7:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeckoPutt (Post 7840794)

Excuse me if I come across rude here as that certainly isn't my intention, but for the sake of discussion, I feel that is a very naïve opinion to make considering that we know very little about these two legendary creatures. For all we know, they might have features, characteristics, abilities, moves or backgrounds that really link them to the dimensional axes - personally, the fact that one is based on the land, and one on the sky puts them well into fitting with the X & Y axes, well, for me anyway.


Whilst I get your point about the 4th Gen Mascots fitting the X and Y axis theme well - and I agree somewhat (although I think you're getting confused between your letters, as time is represented by the letter 'W' within scientific purposes) - I think that we need to make sure that we are not making opinions that are baseless considering that the quantity of information on these mascots are sparse at best.

Well we do know their abilities and their moves. Thus far the legends seem to have a Death, life theme to them along side the X and Y theme. Also note that they have a bit of Yin-Yang to one another as Xerneas is tall (X) and Yvetal has a rather flat body (X) :) Just like how Groudon had bluish (sometimes they look bluish, other times black) lines and Kyogre has red lines, and how Reshiram and Zekrom are in the opposite color game...

Entermaid September 19th, 2013 7:30 PM

There are probably multiple themes and motifs behind XY, many of them already listed. I don't see why we should act as if only of these meanings is correct.

Xander Olivieri September 19th, 2013 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenneking (Post 7840862)
There are probably multiple themes and motifs behind XY, many of them already listed. I don't see why we should act as if only of these meanings is correct.

According to the recent chat with Yoshida, the games are based on the Axis motif and nothing else. The inspiration is X and Y Axis.

“The names of X and Y represent the philosophy we had behind the two games,” explained Yoshida. “We’ve taken the idea of X and Y from the geometric X- and Y-axes. They represent two different ways of thought. At the same time, we want to convey a message encouraging people to find a common ground, where X and Y converge.


Basically, as I said before, the thoughts are black and white and they are looking for the grey area where the thoughts meet.

Its not so much a scientific or Mathmatic version of using the Axis, but a more social aspect of using them. Its a pretty blatant copy of Gen 5 as far as theme creation is concerned. As for X and Y axis in relation to the legends, X and Y don't specifically measure height and length. They can be used for such things, but they measure space between areas. When you lose the sense of up and down, the Axis are cordial points you can use to balance out (like is you were flying), though it doesn't have to measure how high or how low you go unless your instruments are designed to measure that. They can be used to measure rotation as well.

This is where "Space" comes in. The X and Y axis can also be used to measure a time curve and identify anomalies. "Time" and "Dimension" fit there.

If we were to draw it on paper, yes it looks like simple up and down, but they don't measure things for that, they measure in a third dimensional aspect which has 360 degrees to move about.

The legends themselves have a multitude of suspected origins, none of which relate to the axis, unless you count their body designs.

Either way really, we've been thinking about the wrong thing as the "theory of design" was pretty much shoved down our throats. Its a social aspect and way of thinking. Take Team Flare, and this is a shot in the dark based on what I do know, Team Flare has a specific way of thinking. They persue beauty as their main target, what they see as beauty will differ from what the Main Character and what other NPCs may see. Through the game there will be conflicting interests on what beauty is and as you go through, a common ground on what it means to be beautiful may be found.

In another way to relate, Pokemon Black and White. Team Plasma's goal to liberate Pokemon because they feel that Pokemon are being mistreated by humans while in their care. N slowly starts to realize that not all humans are as horrible as he originally thought. N would be an (X) aspect while the main protagonist is a (Y) aspect. As the games progress and into B2W2, you help N to realize that his way of thinking was an incorrect way to attack the issue of Pokemon getting harmed. His way of thinking slowly slid across his axis until it met the point where X and Y converge which pretty much ends Pokemon Black and White and leads us into Pokemon Black 2 and White 2, N still not completely convinced about how Pokemon and Humans should be treated but recognizes his mistakes. Other people seem to have been effected the other way, they start to treat their Pokemon with more respect and try to keep natural habitat alone for the most part to try and live in harmony with the Pokemon.

This is why I say its a pretty bad copy of Black and White as far as theme goes. They pretty much just told us that our initial ideas on what the theme was was wrong as well. Even if they go with the Axis theme, it was not as we thought it was.

MarinoKadame September 19th, 2013 11:33 PM

Well it seems they just wanted to go the lazy way with the story.

Queen September 20th, 2013 1:42 AM

I've always thought the names were based off the X and Y chromosome, since there are mega 'evolution' which represents Theories of Evolution in Biology. Also since Mewtwo has two forms, which could represent the Theory of Divergent Evolution. Would have been a nice concept/theme.

On a side note, that Electrode evolution in the signature of the above poster is quite awesome!

tnfsf11 September 20th, 2013 12:03 PM

Well it makes sense, X/Y will be the first main-series game to be in 3D, & this revolves around the axis X (horizontal), Y (vertical) & Z (I can't remember the 3rd name :P) so yeah there will probz be a Z version...

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire September 20th, 2013 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XanderO (Post 7841000)
According to the recent chat with Yoshida, the games are based on the Axis motif and nothing else. The inspiration is X and Y Axis.

“The names of X and Y represent the philosophy we had behind the two games,” explained Yoshida. “We’ve taken the idea of X and Y from the geometric X- and Y-axes. They represent two different ways of thought. At the same time, we want to convey a message encouraging people to find a common ground, where X and Y converge.


Basically, as I said before, the thoughts are black and white and they are looking for the grey area where the thoughts meet.

Its not so much a scientific or Mathmatic version of using the Axis, but a more social aspect of using them. Its a pretty blatant copy of Gen 5 as far as theme creation is concerned. As for X and Y axis in relation to the legends, X and Y don't specifically measure height and length. They can be used for such things, but they measure space between areas. When you lose the sense of up and down, the Axis are cordial points you can use to balance out (like is you were flying), though it doesn't have to measure how high or how low you go unless your instruments are designed to measure that. They can be used to measure rotation as well.

This is where "Space" comes in. The X and Y axis can also be used to measure a time curve and identify anomalies. "Time" and "Dimension" fit there.

If we were to draw it on paper, yes it looks like simple up and down, but they don't measure things for that, they measure in a third dimensional aspect which has 360 degrees to move about.

The legends themselves have a multitude of suspected origins, none of which relate to the axis, unless you count their body designs.

Either way really, we've been thinking about the wrong thing as the "theory of design" was pretty much shoved down our throats. Its a social aspect and way of thinking. Take Team Flare, and this is a shot in the dark based on what I do know, Team Flare has a specific way of thinking. They persue beauty as their main target, what they see as beauty will differ from what the Main Character and what other NPCs may see. Through the game there will be conflicting interests on what beauty is and as you go through, a common ground on what it means to be beautiful may be found.

In another way to relate, Pokemon Black and White. Team Plasma's goal to liberate Pokemon because they feel that Pokemon are being mistreated by humans while in their care. N slowly starts to realize that not all humans are as horrible as he originally thought. N would be an (X) aspect while the main protagonist is a (Y) aspect. As the games progress and into B2W2, you help N to realize that his way of thinking was an incorrect way to attack the issue of Pokemon getting harmed. His way of thinking slowly slid across his axis until it met the point where X and Y converge which pretty much ends Pokemon Black and White and leads us into Pokemon Black 2 and White 2, N still not completely convinced about how Pokemon and Humans should be treated but recognizes his mistakes. Other people seem to have been effected the other way, they start to treat their Pokemon with more respect and try to keep natural habitat alone for the most part to try and live in harmony with the Pokemon.

This is why I say its a pretty bad copy of Black and White as far as theme goes. They pretty much just told us that our initial ideas on what the theme was was wrong as well. Even if they go with the Axis theme, it was not as we thought it was.

Well if one really thinks about it the theme between two worlds has been a constant theme throughout the series, especially since the third generation even though it wasn't as strongly reflected in the names of Gen III and Gen IV games... Ruby and Sapphire are the same stone, Corundum but two different sides of the color spectrum of the stone, A Diamond is hard, while a Pearl tends to be seen as soft.

Xander Olivieri September 20th, 2013 7:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magmaruby and Aquasapphire (Post 7841583)
Well if one really thinks about it the theme between two worlds has been a constant theme throughout the series, especially since the third generation even though it wasn't as strongly reflected in the names of Gen III and Gen IV games... Ruby and Sapphire are the same stone, Corundum but two different sides of the color spectrum of the stone, A Diamond is hard, while a Pearl tends to be seen as soft.

Not quite what I mean. I meant from the bad guy perspective. Over lying theme for the games.


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