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-   -   6th Gen Is This Game Just Too Easy? (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=309773)

GeckoPutt October 9th, 2013 5:20 AM

Is This Game Just Too Easy?
 
Hey guys! I haven't been this excited for a game in a very VERY long time, however, after perusing the internet and coming across some of these videos, it seems to me that the challenge in these games are almost non-existent; there's no need to grind; and it seems that even a bad team could get through the gyms...

In this video below, the player takes on the second Gym (we've already seen this Gym Leader so it's not exactly spoilers, but if you don't want to see gameplay - don't click). Basically, the Gym Leader uses two Pokémon that are Level 25 and it just doesn't seem like much of a challenging.

What do you think?

Spoiler:



blue October 9th, 2013 5:23 AM

Level 25 for the second Gym is the highest level curve we've had in any Pokémon games to date. Black 2 & White 2's Challenge Mode had a maximum of Level 19 at the second Gym, from the other level barriers I've heard these games sound very challenging.. if not the most.

Adryel October 9th, 2013 5:24 AM

I hope the game would get uber harder every gym leaders
didn't pre order for some ez game

KittenKoder October 9th, 2013 5:25 AM

"Easy" is a relative term, also, the NPC battles were never the real focus of the game so they may have just made those less consequential to encourage PvP battles, which has always been the primary aspect of the games. The Elite Four tend to be the toughest, usually I find all but them to be easy to defeat anyway because a gym has a particular type they use, making battles against them very predictable, but the Elite Four always have a large variety.

GeckoPutt October 9th, 2013 5:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suicune™ (Post 7873196)
Level 25 for the second Gym is the highest level curve we've had in any Pokémon games to date. Black 2 & White 2's Challenge Mode had a maximum of Level 19 at the second Gym, from the other level barriers I've heard these games sound very challenging.. if not the most.

I thought the same as I thought, whilst they are a high level, he only has two Pokémon and they seem to go down pretty quickly - and his team seems to be very high levelled. The EXP Share seems to reduce a lot of the challenge and grinding. :(

Pendraflare October 9th, 2013 5:28 AM

Some people said the same thing about Gen V (that there was no challenge except for N and Ghetsis at the end of BW). However, Gen V introduced more overpowered Pokémon (if they're only giving us around 70 here there probably won't be many overpowered ones), but there might still be stuff to make it easy to steamroll through everything.

And there's gonna be a Lucky Egg later in the game apparently. Yeah, this game isn't going to be overly difficult unless it has Challenge Mode also.

And that video isn't showing for me.

Murkrow October 9th, 2013 5:35 AM

well you can always do a nuzlocke or set yourself some other rules to challenge yourself (like not using the exp share given in the game?).

in the video it would have been unthinkable to let kirlia faint just like that in a nuzlocke.

sad that there doesn't seem to be any challange mode implemented

GeckoPutt October 9th, 2013 5:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KittenKoder (Post 7873201)
"Easy" is a relative term, also, the NPC battles were never the real focus of the game so they may have just made those less consequential to encourage PvP battles, which has always been the primary aspect of the games. The Elite Four tend to be the toughest, usually I find all but them to be easy to defeat anyway because a gym has a particular type they use, making battles against them very predictable, but the Elite Four always have a large variety.

I understand that "easy" is a relative term, but I mean it in its most general and comparative sense. This game just seems easier in comparison to the previous games just from what I'm seeing from the videos shown from the uploader above. Also, I understand that the gyms are predictable; as they have been since 1998. But they have always posed some sort of basic challenge throughout the games - and whilst online play is definitely a big thing that they are going for this time, I don't think that neglecting the solo adventure is the way forward (if of course, that is what indeed they have done).

Quote:

Originally Posted by novachief37 (Post 7873208)
Some people said the same thing about Gen V (that there was no challenge except for N and Ghetsis at the end of BW). However, Gen V introduced more overpowered Pokémon (if they're only giving us around 70 here there probably won't be many overpowered ones), but there might still be stuff to make it easy to steamroll through everything.

And there's gonna be a Lucky Egg later in the game apparently. Yeah, this game isn't going to be overly difficult unless it has Challenge Mode also.

And that video isn't showing for me.

Hmmm... I guess I'll just have to wait until tomorrow when I get mine in the mail. It just seemed very easy. And the video is fixed now, I hadn't put it in Spoiler Tags. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by manutdrule (Post 7873213)
well you can always do a nuzlocke or set yourself some other rules to challenge yourself (like not using the exp share given in the game?).

in the video it would have been unthinkable to let kirlia faint just like that in a nuzlocke.

sad that there doesn't seem to be any challange mode implemented

Yeah, I planned on doing a Nuzlocke Challenge on my second playthrough! And not using the Exp. Share will definitely add to the challenge, but like you said, implementing a Challenge Mode would've been great. Oh well. :)


Zorogami October 9th, 2013 5:43 AM

I guess we sometimes forget that these games are still made for "children", so it cant be too hard. If you "force" children to grind so that they can beat the game, then maybe they´ll have less fun, thus Nintendo selling less copies. Although the Gym leader has "only" 2 pokemon, lv 25 seems increibly high for a 2nd gym!! in comparison, the 3rd gym in BW2 has 3 pokemon, but his highest is at lv 24. i think the level of a pokemon makes for a bigger challenge than the amount.

KittenKoder October 9th, 2013 5:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeckoPutt (Post 7873219)
I understand that "easy" is a relative term, but I mean it in its most general and comparative sense. This game just seems easier in comparison to the previous games just from what I'm seeing from the videos shown from the uploader above. Also, I understand that the gyms are predictable; as they have been since 1998. But they have always posed some sort of basic challenge throughout the games - and whilst online play is definitely a big thing that they are going for this time, I don't think that neglecting the solo adventure is the way forward (if of course, that is what indeed they have done).

Ah, so your basis of "easy" depends only on the pokemon levels themselves. In that case, not really, it's about the same if not harder. Pokemon only have 100 levels, with 8 gyms that's only 12.5 levels per gym on average, making the second gym level 25. However, they have been putting a lot of puzzles into the gyms in recent generations, making the gyms akin to minigames on their own, and this will likely be even more challenging in X/Y, and probably why they are pitching a fit about people getting a copy before the world wide release date.

The solo adventure is always basic, and always set around one main story, to catch them all. Not much you can do to ruin that, seriously, anything they add to "catch them all" is an improvement. The older gen games also had level limitations between gyms, done by pokemon "not obeying" you during attacks if they are too high in level, which use to be really heavy handed but is now almost negligible. The second gym badge in the last gen was up to level 30, which puts 25 as a good level to battle the gym leader.

But one thing forgotten in all this, as I said, to me .... all gyms are easy, they are predictable because of the types, even a pokemon of a much lower level can knock out a level 100 pokemon with the correct move, I know, I have done this very thing many times. Levels can only benefit you if you can match the types correctly, otherwise the level can be rendered completely meaningless, thus why I say "easy is a relative term." To some players, all gyms will always be easy.

jazneo October 9th, 2013 5:55 AM

all pokemon games are easy. game for pvp

HaphazardAsylum October 9th, 2013 6:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manutdrule (Post 7873282)
er what has this got to do with the game being easy?

well tbf nothing but just thought i'd point it out as there is nothing else to really say on that topic that has not been said already but as i noticed it i thought in the video he posted i thought i'd bring it up here
if you would like i can delete my post and bring it up in a more appropriate thread

CoffeeDrink October 9th, 2013 8:15 AM

Hm, koff~

I hope they put in a challenge more here as well, and not require you to beat the game to get higher difficulties unlocked. I haven't lost many Pokemon matches since the second generation, and that was possibly due to the lack of internet. This time around, I'll just be going it alone without any help from the internet or looking to see what type something is or what moves a particular Pokemon learns. I'll also try and tackle it using only three Pokemon in my party, koffi~

Luka Jurcic October 9th, 2013 8:36 AM

I hope it will find the right amount of challenge for most of the players. And while I do not worry about the gyms being to easy, I hope there will be a decent amount of post game play.

Tsutarja October 9th, 2013 9:32 AM

My gosh, if that's the second gym, then that's nowhere near easy at all.. I'd say between Levels 15 and 20 would be adequate for the second gym, but then again, I'm not too sure about the gap between the first gym and the second gym, as that could be a major player in why the levels are that high.

Sabrewulf238 October 9th, 2013 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZachLMedia (Post 7873544)
My gosh, if that's the second gym, then that's nowhere near easy at all.. I'd say between Levels 15 and 20 would be adequate for the second gym, but then again, I'm not too sure about the gap between the first gym and the second gym, as that could be a major player in why the levels are that high.

Well when the leaks were coming out there was a huge gap between the first and second gym. It's probably because
Spoiler:
Lumiose city isn't the second gym, so you have to travel even further.

Emfg October 9th, 2013 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeckoPutt (Post 7873202)


I thought the same as I thought, whilst they are a high level, he only has two Pokémon and they seem to go down pretty quickly - and his team seems to be very high levelled. The EXP Share seems to reduce a lot of the challenge and grinding. :(

Thanks for the warning then. I won't be using the exp share if it becomes too easy with it.

hiff8 October 9th, 2013 12:08 PM

I feel the compedetive battle curcuit is very difficult, but the actual game tends to be easy but addicting.

Also manutdrule, please change you profile pick for a couple of days, some people don't want the final evos spoiled.

Spinosaurus October 9th, 2013 4:05 PM

There is nothing wrong with being easy. Pokemon is not designed to be difficult by any means (except gen 2 which was frankly poorly designed in that department). Pokemon is like Mario in a sense that, it is developed to be accessible to others, but allows you to play in ways that could make it harder. There is a surprising amount of depth in both series, and the post game offers a challenge to the veteran players for anyone. (Mario moreso, though).

Also, unlike Mario which you just play for fun and enjoy the level design, Pokemon's main strength lies in it's exploration and getting that feeling of discovery. Being hard can get a bit contradictory with that idea since making a hard game for what is supposed to be an open world exploration-oriented game can really go against the design since it could DISCOURAGE the player to play and explore.


I'd be more concerned if it was hand-holdy and filled with tutorials. That's when it gets really stupid. I'm looking at you, gen 5.

KittenKoder October 9th, 2013 4:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spinosaurus (Post 7874150)
There is nothing wrong with being easy. Pokemon is not designed to be difficult by any means (except gen 2 which was frankly poorly designed in that department). Pokemon is like Mario in a sense that, it is developed to be accessible to others, but allows you to play in ways that could make it harder. There is a surprising amount of depth in both series, and the post game offers a challenge to the veteran players for anyone. (Mario moreso, though).

Also, unlike Mario which you just play for fun and enjoy the level design, Pokemon's main strength lies in it's exploration and getting that feeling of discovery. Being hard can get a bit contradictory with that idea since making a hard game for what is supposed to be an open world exploration-oriented game can really go against the design since it could DISCOURAGE the player to play and explore.


I'd be more concerned if it was hand-holdy and filled with tutorials. That's when it gets really stupid. I'm looking at you, gen 5.

Gah, if a game needs more than a couple simple tutorials .... it's too complicated or you're putting in way too much effort to annoy the players. Yeah, I'm tired of tutorials as well.

Aaron40 October 9th, 2013 4:15 PM

The first 1-4 gym leaders are always easy to beat

New Eden October 9th, 2013 4:15 PM

Well when you consider that Pokemon is supposed to be accessible for all ages, it sounds stupid to make the games so difficult like people here want them to be. I don't care about the game's difficulty, rather I care about how long the game is.

G_Sylar October 9th, 2013 4:39 PM

This kind of problem could be solved easily with 2 options

a) Make the player choose the difficulty setting he prefers from the beginning
b) Make him choose the same amount of pkmn the gym leader has to battle him, like in the anime

KittenKoder October 9th, 2013 4:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G_Sylar (Post 7874196)
This kind of problem could be solved easily with 2 options

a) Make the player choose the difficulty setting he prefers from the beginning
b) Make him choose the same amount of pkmn the gym leader has to battle him, like in the anime

Difficulties in this kind of game would completely destroy the social play balance, thus destroy the game itself. That's the problem with that notion.

GeckoPutt October 9th, 2013 6:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KittenKoder (Post 7874201)
Difficulties in this kind of game would completely destroy the social play balance, thus destroy the game itself. That's the problem with that notion.

Apologies for any offence caused, but that is complete and utter Garbodor. "Destroy the social play balance"? I see absolutely no evidence as to how a choice of difficulty level would affect the game in any way other than positively. I never saw a shred of evidence to show that 'Easy Mode' or 'Challenge Mode' in 'Pokémon Black 2' or 'Pokémon White 2' affected any sort of social balance nor did it impede on the younger audience of this game.

By introducing certain levels (with clear and definitive listings as to how the difficulties are different and what they change) would be a great way to increase the difficulty for this game.

I am getting what people are saying. I do understand that this game is not predominantly about the difficulty of the battling, and is more about exploration, discovery, and socialising, however, no one can deny that making a game too easy could run the risk of making the game boring (at least ever so slightly) in some aspects. I am personally not bothered too much like yourselves; I will still enjoy this game thoroughly regardless, but I just noticed that the level of difficulty differs somewhat to previous titles and thought it should be opened for discussion.

I will, however, take Hiroshi Sotomura's advice and complete a Nuzlocke. I purchased both games, and they should both be in my grasp in 7 hours when the mail comes! ^_^ So I will do a normal run-through of Pokémon X and that will be my main game where I complete the National Dex, Competitive Battle, EV Train etc., whereas Pokémon Y will be my Nuzlocke run. :) Problem solved.

Still thought this was worthwhile discussion though...

lmcde22 October 9th, 2013 6:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G_Sylar (Post 7874196)
a) Make the player choose the difficulty setting he prefers from the beginning
b) Make him choose the same amount of pkmn the gym leader has to battle him, like in the anime

i would play that sh*t. that would just be a totally amazing addition. you should work for gamefreak...


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