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-   -   6th Gen Lysandre... [SPOILERS] (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=310113)

wertcraft October 13th, 2013 3:32 PM

Lysandre... [SPOILERS]
 
What was your reaction on the first ever confirmed death in the pokemon franchise, where lysandre killed himself as well as all of team flare? mine was horrified by how dark it was compared to the other evil organizations ways of splitting up. this is besides the fact that his logic doesn't make sense. he would want to recreate civilization without pokemon, and to rid the world of pokemon, he calls upon the pokemon of death its self (assuming you are playing Y) to kill all the pokemon. this logic doesn't workwhen you consider the fact that after everyone is already dead, if he planned on all people living, there would be even more fighting, something he didn't want, and if he wiped everyone else except for team flare, wouldn't yvetal kill them anyway. how was he planning on getting rid of his ultimate weapon? this team is my favorite, but it has the least logic of any team i have seen.

iRyahn October 13th, 2013 6:21 PM

Was pretty surprised honestly. Not just at the death's but how 'creepy' the story got late game. I mean seriously their goal was to kill all Pokemon and humans. And 3000 years ago somebody successfully killed thousands of Pokemon and humans. It's definitely the darkest story yet, and I can't believe some of the reviews I saw said things like "the story is bland and follows the same pattern." HELL NAW.

Faye Rose~ October 13th, 2013 6:29 PM

when in the game did it say that he and team flare all killed themselves? I must have missed that bit of text rofl

Xander Olivieri October 13th, 2013 7:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wertcraft (Post 7880695)
What was your reaction on the first ever confirmed death in the pokemon franchise, where lysandre killed himself as well as all of team flare? mine was horrified by how dark it was compared to the other evil organizations ways of splitting up. this is besides the fact that his logic doesn't make sense. he would want to recreate civilization without pokemon, and to rid the world of pokemon, he calls upon the pokemon of death its self (assuming you are playing Y) to kill all the pokemon. this logic doesn't workwhen you consider the fact that after everyone is already dead, if he planned on all people living, there would be even more fighting, something he didn't want, and if he wiped everyone else except for team flare, wouldn't yvetal kill them anyway. how was he planning on getting rid of his ultimate weapon? this team is my favorite, but it has the least logic of any team i have seen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by No2h (Post 7880923)
when in the game did it say that he and team flare all killed themselves? I must have missed that bit of text rofl

I'm not anywhere near that point, but I don't think all of Team Flare was killed if they were killed. Malva is still alive and from what I've seen from hints and what a few of my friends are telling me, she's a Team Flare member and E4 member so they aren't all dead if they did die XD

Tyler666hayes October 13th, 2013 8:42 PM

yeah um guys ive completed the game well the all the story line part of it and they dont all die at all... they have gone back to what kinda people they were before it and through out it several of the characters from team flare arrise after they are 'all killed'..

wertcraft October 14th, 2013 8:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No2h (Post 7880923)
when in the game did it say that he and team flare all killed themselves? I must have missed that bit of text rofl

well lysandre kills most of his team (apparently not all) with yvetal/xerneas as you can see in geosenage town, when he blows up his base (he also kills most of geosenage town by flipping the houses) except for people in the pokemon center, you, and your friends.

MAD31NCH1NA October 14th, 2013 7:59 PM

The story was rather dark, but not in any way bland. Most of his team has disappeared (possibly from explosion/implied deaths), but you can see a few around. One is in a house in Kiloude City, saying he has lost his ways as a Team Flare member (but wanted to keep his snazzy suit :3)

Sirfetch’d October 14th, 2013 8:03 PM

I really loved the darker element of this story because it was time for one. All previous generations have given us a story that had times where it would seem as if it were going in a darker direction, but never fully reached that. I was unaware though that he killed most of Team Flare off and I just assumed that they all escaped except Lysandre, but regardless a good conclusion to this dark storyline.

Contemporaneity October 14th, 2013 10:48 PM

I haven't played the game but Team Flare doesn't sound interesting. The leader sounds ostensibly like a cliched, archetypal, omnicidal, villain... Well, Pokemon was never great at bringing us good characters or a well written story anyway.

Just because a character dies doesn't mean that the story is "dark" or "ambiguous"(hopefully nobody thought that way). The way people are describing the death and character makes it sound shallow especially when people overlook and even fail to acknowledge the death.

Zanekin October 14th, 2013 11:46 PM

The story was very shallow with the exception of AZ's story there was no character development and I'm still annoyed by them being team flare for no reason. No explanation or noticeable reason for that name. Some use fire types, but not all of them, and their mission has nothing to do with fire.

WildEagle October 15th, 2013 3:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wertcraft (Post 7880695)
What was your reaction on the first ever confirmed death in the pokemon franchise, where lysandre killed himself as well as all of team flare? mine was horrified by how dark it was compared to the other evil organizations ways of splitting up. this is besides the fact that his logic doesn't make sense. he would want to recreate civilization without pokemon, and to rid the world of pokemon, he calls upon the pokemon of death its self (assuming you are playing Y) to kill all the pokemon. this logic doesn't workwhen you consider the fact that after everyone is already dead, if he planned on all people living, there would be even more fighting, something he didn't want, and if he wiped everyone else except for team flare, wouldn't yvetal kill them anyway. how was he planning on getting rid of his ultimate weapon? this team is my favorite, but it has the least logic of any team i have seen.

Actually he's re-creating the world only for people who joined Team Flare. He said it on the holo-caster after the 7th gym, anyone who isn't part of Team Flare will die. With only Team Flare member in his new world he's assuming all fighting would stop. The reason why he's killing off the pokemon is because it cause the people to "battle" which he didn't want in his world.

I can accept the story, the leader isn't really a villain in a sense when you think about what he wanted. He wanted a beautiful world without fighting and the only way to do this in the pokemon world is to get rid of Pokemons. It's different from what we seen so far and I like it.

X-Calem October 15th, 2013 3:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildEagle (Post 7883259)
Actually he's re-creating the world only for people who joined Team Flare. He said it on the holo-caster after the 7th gym, anyone who isn't part of Team Flare will die. With only Team Flare member in his new world he's assuming all fighting would stop. The reason why he's killing off the pokemon is because it cause the people to "battle" which he didn't want in his world.

I can accept the story, the leader isn't really a villain in a sense when you think about what he wanted. He wanted a beautiful world without fighting and the only way to do this in the pokemon world is to get rid of Pokemons. It's different from what we seen so far and I like it.

Well I guess Lysandre was a good person in his own right, although his methods weren't very...nice. (I prefer N's story more than Lysandre's though) And I do agree that the storyline got disturbing at some point. XP

wertcraft October 15th, 2013 1:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zanekin (Post 7883138)
The story was very shallow with the exception of AZ's story there was no character development and I'm still annoyed by them being team flare for no reason. No explanation or noticeable reason for that name. Some use fire types, but not all of them, and their mission has nothing to do with fire.

neither did team magma or team aqua

Rivvon October 15th, 2013 5:44 PM

I don't remember exactly what Sycamore said, but from what I remember I was under the assumption that not even Lysandre died...in a state similar to Ghetsis's after B2W2, maybe. But if he did die, well, it's not THAT surprising to me. The entire backstory of X and Y is about a war where many people and Pokémon died, and how the king sacrificed other Pokémon to bring his back. Death is already established within the games.
And, as others have said, it's confirmed that a fair amount of Flare members survived and can be found post-game. Heck, I even think the member who chased your rivals out of the PokéBall Factory is still there.

Also, I'm a firm supporter of the theory that Giovanni died after his event in HGSS, so death in the series really don't shock me.

jazneo October 15th, 2013 5:50 PM

i would like see the great pokemon wars as anime. have to wonder why the pokemon had wars lol

Killjoy October 15th, 2013 6:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zanekin (Post 7883138)
The story was very shallow with the exception of AZ's story there was no character development and I'm still annoyed by them being team flare for no reason. No explanation or noticeable reason for that name. Some use fire types, but not all of them, and their mission has nothing to do with fire.

You're looking at it the wrong way. Not flare as in fire, flare as in style, pazzaz. Every second thing they say has to do with being fashionable. This is why they are Team Flare

jazneo October 15th, 2013 6:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killjoy (Post 7884441)
You're looking at it the wrong way. Not flare as in fire, flare as in style, pazzaz. Every second thing they say has to do with being fashionable. This is why they are Team Flare

they still had fire type pokemon on there team lol. what get me this girl ghost npc carry fairy pokemon lol. i thought they would have ghost type pokemon with them

DamienHelvian October 15th, 2013 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazneo (Post 7884493)
they still had fire type pokemon on there team lol. what get me this girl ghost npc carry fairy pokemon lol. i thought they would have ghost type pokemon with them

They seemed to have more Dark types than Fire types...many Mightyenas.

Munchlax11 October 16th, 2013 8:42 AM

The story was not bland at all. It just happened way too quickly for my liking. I wish they dragged out the story with team flare and the legend a little longer.

Princess Diana October 16th, 2013 8:58 AM

This thread seems to be based around assumptions. I didn't interpret it that way at all.

Although I agree with those who are saying that the game was surprisingly dark.

wertcraft October 16th, 2013 6:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munchlax11 (Post 7885313)
The story was not bland at all. It just happened way too quickly for my liking. I wish they dragged out the story with team flare and the legend a little longer.

I totally agree, this is my fastest time for a blind play through non speed run of a pokemon game.

wertcraft October 17th, 2013 2:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAD31NCH1NA (Post 7882865)
The story was rather dark, but not in any way bland. Most of his team has disappeared (possibly from explosion/implied deaths), but you can see a few around. One is in a house in Kiloude City, saying he has lost his ways as a Team Flare member (but wanted to keep his snazzy suit :3)

which one is kiloude city?

unicorn October 17th, 2013 3:02 PM

i was so confused about it... but what concerned me even more was how nobody seemed to really care?

when we all left his secret base there was like one person outside all of those flipped houses and the huge gaping hole and all he had to say was
"haha! we might have just had a bunch of rocks before but now we have a huge ol' hole!"

?!?!?!??!

where are all the concerned adults and police and firemen and grieving families i dONT UNDERSTAND

jazneo October 17th, 2013 3:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unicorn (Post 7887668)
i was so confused about it... but what concerned me even more was how nobody seemed to really care?

when we all left his secret base there was like one person outside all of those flipped houses and the huge gaping hole and all he had to say was
"haha! we might have just had a bunch of rocks before but now we have a huge ol' hole!"

?!?!?!??!

where are all the concerned adults and police and firemen and grieving families i dONT UNDERSTAND

Why is ash still 10 year old. we never know lol

unicorn October 17th, 2013 3:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazneo (Post 7887708)
Why is ash still 10 year old. we never know lol

at least that i can understand to an extent because in the tv series children like continuity and it would be complicated to age him each season i guess?

but. but.

i don't know, think what you want, but i'm pretty sure he killed himself and took down whoever else was in that HQ base with him. nobody could've survived an explosion like that.

but y'know, instead of screaming and crying and worrying about the charred bodies under the wreckage in the middle of what used to be a town, we just go to the next town to celebrate and the NPC villagers are the same as ever.

like. your friends were in those houses. why are you not concerned?!

jazneo October 17th, 2013 3:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unicorn (Post 7887733)
at least that i can understand to an extent because in the tv series children like continuity and it would be complicated to age him each season i guess?

but. but.

i don't know, think what you want, but i'm pretty sure he killed himself and took down whoever else was in that HQ base with him. nobody could've survived an explosion like that.

but y'know, instead of screaming and crying and worrying about the charred bodies under the wreckage in the middle of what used to be a town, we just go to the next town to celebrate and the NPC villagers are the same as ever.

like. your friends were in those houses. why are you not concerned?!


Possible them build were own by the Team Flare npc.

Nillemi October 18th, 2013 7:30 AM

That was suicide?
From what I gathered, I thought he was cursing you with eternal life.

abcde123456 October 18th, 2013 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burg (Post 7888702)
That was suicide?
From what I gathered, I thought he was cursing you with eternal life.

How would he go about doing that? The player has already caught/defeated Xerneas and I thought you needed it in the machine to do that. I know I'm missing something. Someone please explain because I have a feeling that this is true.

unicorn October 18th, 2013 12:38 PM

i think his goal was to grant all of you with eternal life?
but when we ran out of the base he kind of freaked out, right?
and don't forget that some people view death as an "eternal resting/eternal afterlife".

i mean. i dunno.
if you've watched legend of korra at all, he kind of pulls a tarrlok.
he gets so angry that he just kind of uses the machine but it backfires?
and it explodes. in the cut-scene it shows that it was clearly a huuuuge blast.
and in the end he's trapped under a pile of rubble in the middle of a huge hole.

so even if he is still alive, he's doomed to be trapped down there
alone. forever. in the dark.

but i doubt he lived. i doubt anyone else on the weapon lived, either.

Z25 October 18th, 2013 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abcde123456 (Post 7889006)
How would he go about doing that? The player has already caught/defeated Xerneas and I thought you needed it in the machine to do that. I know I'm missing something. Someone please explain because I have a feeling that this is true.


Here is what happens: he promises eternal life and you and your friends run away immediately but he sets the device off thinking he can curse you with it before you escape. The machine has a little power left so it fires but it's to weak to go full purpose and flies back down into the machine blowing everything in the town up. The end....

abcde123456 October 18th, 2013 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoroarkrules25 (Post 7889032)
Here is what happens: he promises eternal life and you and your friends run away immediately but he sets the device off thinking he can curse you with it before you escape. The machine has a little power left so it fires but it's to weak to go full purpose and flies back down into the machine blowing everything in the town up. The end....

I see. Thank you! Imagine if we get to see our player end up like AZ in Gen 16 :P I know this is off-topic but the inhabitants of Geosenge are probably deranged. The town blew up, houses got overturned and all they have to say is that there's now a huge hole in the ground.

*Icecold* October 18th, 2013 12:48 PM

Lysandre never died. You may have interpreted that he died, but there's no actual proof that he did. It's your personal headcanon.

But I sure hope he didn't! He's very, very close to being my favorite main villain, Cyrus beating him by a hair. He's the most in-depth character in the entire game. No other character has as much personality as him.

And Team Flare is based both on fashion and fire.

Z25 October 18th, 2013 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abcde123456 (Post 7889042)
I see. Thank you! Imagine if we get to see our player end up like AZ in Gen 16 :P I know this is off-topic but the inhabitants of Geosenge are probably deranged. The town blew up, houses got overturned and all they have to say is that there's now a huge hole in the ground.

Lol, although it could be PDSD, where they sorta pretend it never happened.

unicorn October 18th, 2013 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Icecold* (Post 7889051)
Lysandre never died. You may have interpreted that he died, but there's no actual proof that he did. It's your personal headcanon.

there's no actual proof that he lived, either.
i mean. i personally think he's done for?
and i'm not saying that you're wrong or anything
but what makes you think he's still alive?

i'm just curious because i don't think anyone could've survived an explosion like that.
and if by some miracle he survived that explosion, he would've been crushed by debris.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoroarkrules25
... PDSD, where they sorta pretend it never happened.

... do you mean PTSD?
people with PTSD don't pretend a traumatic event never took place.
that's psychological repression. [ and even then, that's not pretending, that's the brain protecting itself ]
pretending something never happened is just denial.
people with PTSD have flashbacks and severe bouts of terror and nightmares about the event.
:/ sorry for off topic.

*Icecold* October 18th, 2013 1:10 PM

Hold on a second, I couldn't remember/fully interpret what happened at the end of the game. Unicorn, I agree, he did die.

I finally remember now! The explosion of the ultimate machine took the secret base with it, so Shauna, Calem/Serena and the player have to run out just in time before it collapses. Everyone else inside dies.



But anyways, the worst thing about the death of Team Flare is that nobody gives a crap. Sycamore is just like "so sorry about Lysandre's behavior" like he's his babysitter or something. Everyone else is just happy they're gone. I don't care if they were trying to destroy the world! A lot of people knew that their goal wasn't all bad, it's just what they were doing wasn't right! And Lysandre even learned his lesson at the end!

THE ENTIRE KALOS POPULATION IS MADE UP OF COLDHEARTED FREAKS!

Sceptile14 October 18th, 2013 3:26 PM

I could see a situation where he actually survives and trys something else in sequels, which would be pretty awesome as he was a very interesting character, but was very underused. It is most likely that he did die though... He wouldn't really be able to survive that unless he was helped by something.

Jimmyray October 18th, 2013 3:31 PM

I never actually noticed a direct implication of death to anyone, but even if it's true, hasn't death been a theme since day 1? Remember Cubone's mother and the graveyard etc.? And the first movie when Mewtwo escapes the lab?

unicorn October 18th, 2013 7:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Icecold* (Post 7889090)
Hold on a second, I couldn't remember/fully interpret what happened at the end of the game. Unicorn, I agree, he did die.

I finally remember now! The explosion of the ultimate machine took the secret base with it, so Shauna, Calem/Serena and the player have to run out just in time before it collapses. Everyone else inside dies.



But anyways, the worst thing about the death of Team Flare is that nobody gives a crap. Sycamore is just like "so sorry about Lysandre's behavior" like he's his babysitter or something. Everyone else is just happy they're gone. I don't care if they were trying to destroy the world! A lot of people knew that their goal wasn't all bad, it's just what they were doing wasn't right! And Lysandre even learned his lesson at the end!

THE ENTIRE KALOS POPULATION IS MADE UP OF COLDHEARTED FREAKS!

hahaha!! that's exactly what i was freaked out by!!
nobody seemed to notice and/or care about it!
even the townspeople!

and all of the houses that were overturned--nobody checked up on them!!
no one went to see if their friends were okay!! and they're STILL laying over!
i'm so, so, so confused by the lack of panic.

CyanideEspeon October 19th, 2013 2:38 AM

I just couldn't not feel sorry for Lysandre. He was trying to do what he believed was right, even though what he wanted to do was wrong. Also, we get a huge parade and Lysandre doesn't even get a tiny bit of something remotely funerary. In an attempt to fix this injustice, I named my male Litleo (now a Pyroar) after him. I also like to think that your four friends and Professor Sycamore feel awful, but keep it a secret. Also, did Lysandre's Pokémon die? If they did, shouldn't the NPCs at least feel sad about them?

wertcraft October 19th, 2013 6:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unicorn (Post 7889544)
hahaha!! that's exactly what i was freaked out by!!
nobody seemed to notice and/or care about it!
even the townspeople!

and all of the houses that were overturned--nobody checked up on them!!
no one went to see if their friends were okay!! and they're STILL laying over!
i'm so, so, so confused by the lack of panic.

well what do you expect in a world where team rocket can put on a mustache and trick people with more than 15 years of experience identifying them.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire October 19th, 2013 7:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wertcraft (Post 7880695)
What was your reaction on the first ever confirmed death in the pokemon franchise, where lysandre killed himself as well as all of team flare? mine was horrified by how dark it was compared to the other evil organizations ways of splitting up. this is besides the fact that his logic doesn't make sense. he would want to recreate civilization without pokemon, and to rid the world of pokemon, he calls upon the pokemon of death its self (assuming you are playing Y) to kill all the pokemon. this logic doesn't workwhen you consider the fact that after everyone is already dead, if he planned on all people living, there would be even more fighting, something he didn't want, and if he wiped everyone else except for team flare, wouldn't yvetal kill them anyway. how was he planning on getting rid of his ultimate weapon? this team is my favorite, but it has the least logic of any team i have seen.

Well the King managed to survive...as did citizens of Kalos he spared as can be seen as people still exist...so I'm guessing Team Flare would do whatever the King did to spare themselves.

The plot of Team Flare was similar to a plot of a character in a story I'm working on...so it was interesting to see how Pokemon executed the whole kill everyone to create a better world plotline (also reinforces the idea that no matter how original one thinks one's idea is...someone somewhere is doing it...aka nothing new under the sun).

I understood where Lysandre was going with his idea...but he went about it the wrong way...taking innocent lives to stop the lost of lives seems so hypocritical...though I guess that's why they're called Team Flare...fight Fire with Fire...or Death with Death.

Legobricks October 19th, 2013 8:01 PM

I liked him; potent character, just not handled well. The aftermath of his apparent death was handled the most poorly — there's just real no acknowledgement of him after that point. It's very odd. The whole story feels 'disconnected' in some way, actually.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Zanekin (Post 7883138)
The story was very shallow with the exception of AZ's story there was no character development and I'm still annoyed by them being team flare for no reason. No explanation or noticeable reason for that name. Some use fire types, but not all of them, and their mission has nothing to do with fire.

The notion of fire (in this case the 'fire' of the weapon) being a purifying force has long been with humanity.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire October 19th, 2013 8:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cassino (Post 7891021)
I liked him; potent character, just not handled well. The aftermath of his apparent death was handled the most poorly — there's just real no acknowledgement of him after that point. It's very odd. The whole story feels 'disconnected' in some way, actually.



The notion of fire (in this case the 'fire' of the weapon) being a purifying force has long been with humanity.

I agree...this has got to be the most 'disconnected' story thus far...I can't even think of a close second as all the others' are connected to the same degree.

I feel that after Gen V's placement of the evil plots...Lysander's plot coming before the eight gym makes him and Team Flare come off as a side thing...to just be fogotten. Even when compared to the other pre-8th gym teams from the pre-Gen V era Flare's is disconnected in location...as Team Rocket's final big plot was in Saffron, and their dissolution after fighting the 8th gym (ironically) due to defeating Giovanni, Team Magma and Aqua's take place in the home of the eight gym...thus giving one of the best reason's one can't battle a gym before defeating the evil team as the actual gym and it's city...no the whole region was on the brink of destruction...
Now Team Galactic...it's far from the eight gym sure...but their plot and story made up for it due to it's epicness.

wertcraft October 22nd, 2013 4:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazneo (Post 7884410)
i would like see the great pokemon wars as anime. have to wonder why the pokemon had wars lol

there was a pokemon war in the lucario movie

KittenKoder October 22nd, 2013 4:06 PM

If any Pokemon character needs to be killed ... this is the one. Lysander pisses me off, willing to sacrifice pokemon for his bad idea. No, killing pokemon is worse than stealing them by so many levels.

Emfg October 22nd, 2013 5:26 PM

Can't say I truly care about Lysandre being gone. He was literally the typical, boring bad guy with barely no motives besides "herp da derp cleansing the world of impurity" or whatever.
Not to mention everything ended waaaaaay too quickly.

I really hope (assuming there is) Pokemon Z will explain a lot more about the story and the region. The lore behind the legendary pokemon are also kind of boring and barely spoken of.

CyanideEspeon October 23rd, 2013 5:00 AM

I'm hoping that Z is going to be a retelling of X and Y, and that a lot more will be done with Lysandre, since I found him kind of interesting, full of potential, and dare I say it, sort of likable. Yet as much as I like him, I do strongly believe that what Lysandre wanted to do was wrong.

Sebastian_Sommer October 23rd, 2013 5:24 AM

I wish they had explained Lysandre's reasons with a little more detail, we basically didn't witness any scarring memory or experience that made him believe in his extreme ideals. But all we get is AZ's story about his traumatic experience, which incidentally could have been avoided since he was the king that time (who would honestly send a small Florette to a full scale pokemon war?)

SpokeyDokey October 23rd, 2013 5:38 AM

I admire the approach Game Freak took here, but I felt that Team Flare, primarily in appearance, did not completely personify "darkness". One might think that the juxtaposition between the character of Team Flare and the story might elicit an unsettling feeling, but for me the the effort just came off goofy--as a missed opportunity. Too the philosophy they aimed to present felt lost because the characters did not completely embody their goals nor was the world in which you, the gamer, played effected in any way by actions taken and not taken. The game gives you opportunities to make choices, but no matter what choice you make the game still makes the correct decisions in virtue of story progression.

The story is certainly better and more memorable, at least for me, but it could have been something more.

rivinus October 23rd, 2013 6:18 AM

trying to remove pokemon from the world?

Sounds like peta lol

wertcraft October 23rd, 2013 4:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmyray (Post 7889224)
I never actually noticed a direct implication of death to anyone, but even if it's true, hasn't death been a theme since day 1? Remember Cubone's mother and the graveyard etc.? And the first movie when Mewtwo escapes the lab?

by this i meant human death, and I'm referring to the games, not the anime.

aonshinzo October 23rd, 2013 5:32 PM

Storyline was definitely surprisingly dark....usually pokemon don't even mention the word "death" fully, and to go from that to a storyline base on the stopping of GENOCIDE is.....random. I liked Team Flare and the story in all but, I agree it seemed like they just shoved it in between the 7th and 8th gym, I wished it was expanded more. Easily the 2nd best storyline though, it just wasn't on Unova level despite how dark it was.

I also wished the characters supported more (like Gym Leaders and E4 members) I mean...a guy is threatening you with complete Genocide and nobody seems to bat an eye....

TreeKangaroo October 25th, 2013 8:15 AM

Well, with the exception of black and white(2), most Pokemon games reach the peak of their story between the 7th and 8th gyms.

wertcraft October 25th, 2013 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unicorn (Post 7887668)
i was so confused about it... but what concerned me even more was how nobody seemed to really care?

when we all left his secret base there was like one person outside all of those flipped houses and the huge gaping hole and all he had to say was
"haha! we might have just had a bunch of rocks before but now we have a huge ol' hole!"

?!?!?!??!

where are all the concerned adults and police and firemen and grieving families i dONT UNDERSTAND

yeah i know right, makes more sense where its undercover, but this was in a town, and afterwards, the map pohoto of the town doesn't update, or the description

AerVaur October 26th, 2013 1:41 AM

I thought he was an okay as a villain. It probably helps that I imagined him being voiced
by Patrick Seitz.

TreeKangaroo October 26th, 2013 9:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Icecold* (Post 7889090)
Hold on a second, I couldn't remember/fully interpret what happened at the end of the game. Unicorn, I agree, he did die.

I finally remember now! The explosion of the ultimate machine took the secret base with it, so Shauna, Calem/Serena and the player have to run out just in time before it collapses. Everyone else inside dies.



But anyways, the worst thing about the death of Team Flare is that nobody gives a crap. Sycamore is just like "so sorry about Lysandre's behavior" like he's his babysitter or something. Everyone else is just happy they're gone. I don't care if they were trying to destroy the world! A lot of people knew that their goal wasn't all bad, it's just what they were doing wasn't right! And Lysandre even learned his lesson at the end!

THE ENTIRE KALOS POPULATION IS MADE UP OF COLDHEARTED FREAKS!

So that's what he meant about a beautiful world. AND THE WORKER JUST LAUGHS ABOUT IT. What a d*****.

SnowpointQuincy October 26th, 2013 10:16 AM

The Big Explosion scene is confusing. The Machine was made to grant life, but then changed into a weapon. And it still is a weapon. Then the villain threatens to make you immortal. And then, it blows up - leaving a crater.

If Lysandre is dead, or Immortal and burried under rubble.... What is going to happen in the Sequel? Team Flare is all but gone. Like a passing Fancy, no one even cares that they were part of the team, none cares to punish former team members. "Ok, That's Over" And no one cares that it happened.

What material do they have for a follow up? Maybe a completely new villain shows up like a new Passion in Kalos.

Or, Immortal Lysandre (if that is even a thing) crawls out of the rubble for revenge.

kokid99 October 26th, 2013 10:35 AM

I just hated that the legendary was just there... There was no fight in "protecting" the legendary from its original place of rest, and honestly.... All the characters in the story including the player in general just seemed so naive & oblivious to what lysandre was going to do. Besides that this game is one of my favorites :D

Z25 October 26th, 2013 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnowpointQuincy (Post 7902593)
The Big Explosion scene is confusing. The Machine was made to grant life, but then changed into a weapon. And it still is a weapon. Then the villain threatens to make you immortal. And then, it blows up - leaving a crater.

If Lysandre is dead, or Immortal and burried under rubble.... What is going to happen in the Sequel? Team Flare is all but gone. Like a passing Fancy, no one even cares that they were part of the team, none cares to punish former team members. "Ok, That's Over" And no one cares that it happened.

What material do they have for a follow up? Maybe a completely new villain shows up like a new Passion in Kalos.

Or, Immortal Lysandre (if that is even a thing) crawls out of the rubble for revenge.

My theory is that malva will lead a rebellion to revive team flare. Although hints point to something completely new in z.( if that is what it is called if it is taking place in a new region.)

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire October 26th, 2013 12:14 PM

There's no Immortality in Y though...just genocide...
In Z they'll proably aim to kill everyone but make themselves immortal...combining both parts.
I liked Lysander...but he should stay dead...or immortal under rubble...as it fits with the mortif of death and life.

wertcraft October 28th, 2013 5:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aonshinzo (Post 7897831)
Storyline was definitely surprisingly dark....usually pokemon don't even mention the word "death" fully, and to go from that to a storyline base on the stopping of GENOCIDE is.....random. I liked Team Flare and the story in all but, I agree it seemed like they just shoved it in between the 7th and 8th gym, I wished it was expanded more. Easily the 2nd best storyline though, it just wasn't on Unova level despite how dark it was.

I also wished the characters supported more (like Gym Leaders and E4 members) I mean...a guy is threatening you with complete Genocide and nobody seems to bat an eye....

to be honest, i hated unova, but sinnohs story was pretty good, unova had a team with no logic to it.

starlite1287 October 28th, 2013 7:17 PM

What really stood out to me more than anything is the houses that were overturned... I mean, really? With that huge explosion, those wood cabins should be blasted to pieces. But they are turned over like fallen chess pieces. That wood must be made of impenetrable super wood.

xRangii October 28th, 2013 7:44 PM

Guys, let's not forget we're talking about Pokemon - a game for children. While there is a strong assumption that Lysandre is dead along with some other team members, we forget about another assumption. The team disbanded and Lysandre went into hiding - they fled before the explosion occurred. While there isn't strong evidence in this, the fact that Pokemon is a children's game would support this theory.

But I would have to agree the story was dark.. Killing Pokemon 3000 years ago for the sake of his Floette ;_; But there is a happy ending, I guess - not going to spoil it! It would've been nice if the story was longer and more in depth, I just didn't feel satisfied taking down Team Flare. In my opinion, I would've liked to see more villainous acts because it barely felt like they were going to "dominate the world." I mean, come on! NPCs completely forget about them!

wertcraft October 29th, 2013 3:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rivinus (Post 7896849)
trying to remove pokemon from the world?

Sounds like peta lol

lawl yes, have you played pokemon black & blue

Redingard October 29th, 2013 3:40 PM

I'm sure all of you are mixing up what a good story is. Granted, this game was dark. Killing Pokemon is pretty damn messed up. However, that hardly makes it good. It was rushed, no development, no clear sense of direction (we only care about Team Flare until Lysandre makes threat Holo Caster announcement), and, simply put, it's a traditional Pokemon story. All of the characters are completely flat-especially your friends. People can think that the story is good. But you can't really say it's good because its dark alone. If you say that, then you can take a terra-bad movie like Bridge to Terrabithia and say it's good because it's happy. I digress. Story was lame, but that's normal.

Princess Diana October 29th, 2013 3:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starlite1287 (Post 7907617)
What really stood out to me more than anything is the houses that were overturned... I mean, really? With that huge explosion, those wood cabins should be blasted to pieces. But they are turned over like fallen chess pieces. That wood must be made of impenetrable super wood.

What stood out to me was how pretty much nobody reacted to seeing Team Flair members out and about, even post-game.

Atomic Pirate October 29th, 2013 3:50 PM

I don't remember being promised eternal life...

Whether this is because I sped through the dialogue or I was playing Y version, I'm not sure.

Either way, this guy's a pretty legit villain. Too bad Team Flare themselves were complete losers.

wertcraft October 30th, 2013 5:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnowpointQuincy (Post 7902593)
The Big Explosion scene is confusing. The Machine was made to grant life, but then changed into a weapon. And it still is a weapon. Then the villain threatens to make you immortal. And then, it blows up - leaving a crater.

If Lysandre is dead, or Immortal and burried under rubble.... What is going to happen in the Sequel? Team Flare is all but gone. Like a passing Fancy, no one even cares that they were part of the team, none cares to punish former team members. "Ok, That's Over" And no one cares that it happened.

What material do they have for a follow up? Maybe a completely new villain shows up like a new Passion in Kalos.

Or, Immortal Lysandre (if that is even a thing) crawls out of the rubble for revenge.

there are rarely sequels, the only one in a passage of time is black and white 2. all others: yellow, crystal, emerald, and platinum are all the same timeline.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elgyem (Post 7908987)
I don't remember being promised eternal life...

Whether this is because I sped through the dialogue or I was playing Y version, I'm not sure.

Either way, this guy's a pretty legit villain. Too bad Team Flare themselves were complete losers.

honestly i think the eternal life is only x because xerneas is the life pokemon

Redingard October 30th, 2013 5:09 PM

@Wertcraft

Actually, time has passed in the games. The Dragon-Type E4 says she was "brought up on stories of the mighty Time and Space dragons". She was a child during the fourth generation, and is now a somewhat old woman in the sixth. While it's not clear how much time passes in between the games, it does indeed go by.

Iceshadow3317 October 30th, 2013 5:19 PM

In X, Lysandre says he will make you immortal. When he said that, he meant to make you suffer of eternal life because there would always be evil and war in the world and all you could do is go through it and suffer.

So far Unova was the best story for me and I always have not cared for Sinnoh's story. I was really hoping that the story would blend in with running through the gyms like it did in Sinnoh.

TreeKangaroo November 1st, 2013 8:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elgyem (Post 7908987)
I don't remember being promised eternal life...

Whether this is because I sped through the dialogue or I was playing Y version, I'm not sure.

Either way, this guy's a pretty legit villain. Too bad Team Flare themselves were complete losers.

Xerosic redeems himself in the aftergame part.

wertcraft November 11th, 2013 5:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TreeKangaroo (Post 7914640)
Xerosic redeems himself in the aftergame part.

seriously, who is xerosic? can sombody explain to me?

KittenKoder November 11th, 2013 5:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wertcraft (Post 7910836)
there are rarely sequels, the only one in a passage of time is black and white 2. all others: yellow, crystal, emerald, and platinum are all the same timeline.


honestly i think the eternal life is only x because xerneas is the life pokemon

Actually, every region is a sequel, and time does pass. New games always have references to previous ones. The BW2 is easier to spot, but all the games do go in a sequential order, and for that to happen, time has to progress. What they do is just not tell us how much time has passed, that ambiguity allows them to avoid plot holes common in many other series.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnowpointQuincy (Post 7902593)
The Big Explosion scene is confusing. The Machine was made to grant life, but then changed into a weapon. And it still is a weapon. Then the villain threatens to make you immortal. And then, it blows up - leaving a crater.

If Lysandre is dead, or Immortal and burried under rubble.... What is going to happen in the Sequel? Team Flare is all but gone. Like a passing Fancy, no one even cares that they were part of the team, none cares to punish former team members. "Ok, That's Over" And no one cares that it happened.

What material do they have for a follow up? Maybe a completely new villain shows up like a new Passion in Kalos.

Or, Immortal Lysandre (if that is even a thing) crawls out of the rubble for revenge.

You bring up some interesting possibilities, but then I also think you are looking too much into the plot. The machine was actually a weapon because of how it granted life, by draining the life of every pokemon. What did bother me was how that would destroy human life in the world ... but meh, killing pokemon is plain wrong anyway and I didn't care enough to dwell on it.

PokemonTrainerRedBlueYellow November 11th, 2013 6:22 PM

Can I add you? Don't have a lot of people to play the game with. My friend code is 5214-9767-5488.

Aminta November 11th, 2013 6:31 PM

What really confuses me is this - what the heck was with the "fashion and flair!" mantras of Team Flare members?
There's a total disconnect between the leader of the organization, the goals of the organization, and the constituent members of the organization. Team Flare members don't really talk about cleansing the world, ending warfare and strife, how much faith they have in Lysandre and his cause... All they consistently talk about is the Team Flare uniform and how stylish/cool/fashionable/radical they think they are.

Lysandre isn't a model or a pop star, he's not a fashion designer or an artist. He's some perpetually broody older man who hates the world the way it is now. He's bitter, grumpy, taciturn. So why would his organization consist of a bunch of flamboyant fashion aficionados and people wearing weird cyber goggles and green lipstick? It's just... weird. It doesn't make any sense.

You'd think members of an organization with goals like Lysandre's would all be very stern, serious, pessimistic about the way the world is now. They'd have a really diabolical and moody presence and perhaps be feared. But instead they all have hilarious flame-pouf hairstyles and nobody's afraid of them and all they do is strike poses and talk about how cool they are.

MiniMinun November 11th, 2013 6:39 PM

Yeah, I found this game to be the darkest yet... I mean, what would you do if Lysandre called you on your Holo-Caster to tell you that you're going to die? Also, around three times I saw grunts mentioning how you can join Team Flare for 5,000,000$. I thought this was silly, considering the fact that realistically there would be no reason to join them. Then, I understood when one of the grunts at Geosenge saying something like "I joined Team Flare for 5,000,000, and now I get a new life!" The 5,000,000$ was a literal ticket to safety from the end of the world. I'm pretty sure Lysandre even says "Did you come to stop me? Or to be in safety?" (I really don't remember the quotes). I mean, come on, Pokemon! Did you really need this dark of a story for a KIDS game?

All in all, Lysandre is one CREEPY dude. He invented the Holo-Caster to Peeping-Tom on trainers! He will probably be engraved as the most memorable Bad-Team-Leader-Type-Thing in my head forever.

KittenKoder November 11th, 2013 6:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aminta (Post 7932533)
What really confuses me is this - what the heck was with the "fashion and flair!" mantras of Team Flare members?
There's a total disconnect between the leader of the organization, the goals of the organization, and the constituent members of the organization. Team Flare members don't really talk about cleansing the world, ending warfare and strife, how much faith they have in Lysandre and his cause... All they consistently talk about is the Team Flare uniform and how stylish/cool/fashionable/radical they think they are.

Lysandre isn't a model or a pop star, he's not a fashion designer or an artist. He's some perpetually broody older man who hates the world the way it is now. He's bitter, grumpy, taciturn. So why would his organization consist of a bunch of flamboyant fashion aficionados and people wearing weird cyber goggles and green lipstick? It's just... weird. It doesn't make any sense.

You'd think members of an organization with goals like Lysandre's would all be very stern, serious, pessimistic about the way the world is now. They'd have a really diabolical and moody presence and perhaps be feared. But instead they all have hilarious flame-pouf hairstyles and nobody's afraid of them and all they do is strike poses and talk about how cool they are.

That is a good point. The leaders usually fit in with the team's theme somehow and Lysandre was just a jerk, nothing special about him.

KostK2Boss November 12th, 2013 6:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aminta (Post 7932533)
Lysandre isn't a model or a pop star, he's not a fashion designer or an artist. He's some perpetually broody older man who hates the world the way it is now. He's bitter, grumpy, taciturn. So why would his organization consist of a bunch of flamboyant fashion aficionados and people wearing weird cyber goggles and green lipstick? It's just... weird. It doesn't make any sense.

They do mention several times that you needed to pay a $5.000.000 fee in order to join Team Flare, which I guess explains why most of their members ended up being rich jerks who only care about their appearances.
I really don't get Lysandre's "master plan". I know previous Pokemon villains had pretty insane and idiotic plans as well, but they at least made sense within the villain's own messed-up mind. Team Aqua and Magma, when it comes down to it, were just common hooligans who promoted themselves to a global threat. Yes, both their plans were very stupid and made no scientific sense, but what does one expect from a bunch of hippies who spray graffiti about the importance of sea life/ land life. Cyrus was a big sociopath with an implied abusive upbringing, so from his point of view he is actually doing the world a favour by getting rid of "the evil that is emotion".
Lysandre, on the other hand, hates the whole world for no given reason and plans to kill everyone but a select few, hoping that the survivors won't just slaughter each other like animals over the few resources left on the planet post-apocalypse. Unlike Cyrus, he doesn't have a specific plan on how to reshape the world after he destroys it (insane as such a plan would be) and unlike Archie and Maxie, he is actually implied to have some sort of academic education, which doesn't excuse how he would come up with such a flawed, fail-prone plan that totally ignores elementary rules of how society and human beings in general work.

Guy November 12th, 2013 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiniMinum (Post 7932546)
Also, around three times I saw grunts mentioning how you can join Team Flare for 5,000,000$. I thought this was silly, considering the fact that realistically there would be no reason to join them. Then, I understood when one of the grunts at Geosenge saying something like "I joined Team Flare for 5,000,000, and now I get a new life!" The 5,000,000$ was a literal ticket to safety from the end of the world.

That's a very interesting perspective and one that did not occur to me while playing the game. Lysandre for all intents and purposes wanted to create a better world where everyone could live fair and equally without war. He was angry at the world and how humans and Pokémon alike were destroying it through constant battle. Clearly, he viewed it as an ugly place to be in and wanted to rid the world of this "ugly" to create a more beautiful life for people to live in.

It makes sense now why there would only be a select few who survive through Lysandre's plans and why the price to join was so costly. They were literally buying there way into a new life, a beautiful life as you so acutely pointed out. Since the price was so high and given the hoity-toity atmosphere of Kalos, it's no wonder why the grunts were so focused on their looks, feeling like they were better than others, and more superior. They knew they were the lucky few going to live to see a better world while the rest of us and Pokémon would die from their destruction. In their eyes, we were the peasants who couldn't afford the new lifestyle they dreamed to live in.

In the end, they were all a bunch of rich lunatics who deemed the world ugly and inferior and wanted to live in a world where only their high elegance and beauty existed. Lysandre was consumed by this and his followers only saw the gold at the end of the tunnel. What I would have liked to learn more of though was Lysandre's past and how he developed this kind of hatred.

It was certainly a dark story, probably the darkest, but there are ways Lysandre and Team Flare could have stuck out more throughout the storyline, something I hope can be rectified in a third version, or better yet, sequels.

CoffeeDrink November 12th, 2013 7:26 PM

Hey, koff~

Team Rocket killed Pokemon guys. Just cause they could. Also, I don't believe that they died. This 'ultimate weapon' did as much damage as a small crate of C-4. It sunk their base, sure, but the main character (you and your friends) didn't get caught in the blast or die. That leads me to believe that they're still alive somewhere. Also, Xerosic is still alive, koffi~

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire November 13th, 2013 9:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoffeeDrink (Post 7934094)
Hey, koff~

Team Rocket killed Pokemon guys. Just cause they could. Also, I don't believe that they died. This 'ultimate weapon' did as much damage as a small crate of C-4. It sunk their base, sure, but the main character (you and your friends) didn't get caught in the blast or die. That leads me to believe that they're still alive somewhere. Also, Xerosic is still alive, koffi~

Yeah...but Xerosic and the other scientiests weren't at the secret base, they were still in the Cafe most likely.

Lysander came off as Cyrus 2.0. Cyrus hated spirit, and wouldn't have cared about killing off everyone in the Universe but himself in order to create a new one. Lysander hated 'ugliness', and wouldn't have cared about killing off everyone else in the world but Team Flare.

Chr. Draco November 14th, 2013 9:51 AM

Lysandre was an interesting villain because he stated some points of view that make you think a lot; in synthesis about the survival of the fittest. like sometimes to survive, any being will do what they consider it's necessary to survive, it's more like the instinct over reason. I think he got obssesed with the idea and overdid it, trying to change the world by any means, no matter if what he was going to do in the process was good or bad.

RandomDSdevel November 14th, 2013 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XanderO (Post 7880975)
I'm not anywhere near that point, but I don't think all of Team Flare was killed if they were killed. Malva is still alive and from what I've seen from hints and what a few of my friends are telling me, she's a Team Flare member and E4 member so they aren't all dead if they did die XD

I didn't know that this generation's main games had a member of the villainous team in the Kalos region's Elite 4! Has that ever happened in the games before?

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildEagle (Post 7883259)
Actually he's re-creating the world only for people who joined Team Flare. He said it on the holo-caster after the 7th gym, anyone who isn't part of Team Flare will die. With only Team Flare member in his new world he's assuming all fighting would stop. The reason why he's killing off the pokemon is because it cause the people to "battle" which he didn't want in his world.

I can accept the story, the leader isn't really a villain in a sense when you think about what he wanted. He wanted a beautiful world without fighting and the only way to do this in the pokemon world is to get rid of Pokemons. It's different from what we seen so far and I like it.

So Generation VI has expanded upon the 'getting obsessed with what were originally good intentions is a bad thing' theme that started appearing in the Pokémon franchise in Generation V, eh?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazneo (Post 7884493)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Killjoy (Post 7884441)
You're looking at it the wrong way. Not flare as in fire, flare as in style, pazzaz. Every second thing they say has to do with being fashionable. This is why they are Team Flare

they still had fire type pokemon on there team lol. what get me this girl ghost npc carry fairy pokemon lol. i thought they would have ghost type pokemon with them

I get it! Team Flare's name makes a pun out of the words 'flair' and 'flare!'

wertcraft November 14th, 2013 2:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aminta (Post 7932533)
What really confuses me is this - what the heck was with the "fashion and flair!" mantras of Team Flare members?
There's a total disconnect between the leader of the organization, the goals of the organization, and the constituent members of the organization. Team Flare members don't really talk about cleansing the world, ending warfare and strife, how much faith they have in Lysandre and his cause... All they consistently talk about is the Team Flare uniform and how stylish/cool/fashionable/radical they think they are.

Lysandre isn't a model or a pop star, he's not a fashion designer or an artist. He's some perpetually broody older man who hates the world the way it is now. He's bitter, grumpy, taciturn. So why would his organization consist of a bunch of flamboyant fashion aficionados and people wearing weird cyber goggles and green lipstick? It's just... weird. It doesn't make any sense.

You'd think members of an organization with goals like Lysandre's would all be very stern, serious, pessimistic about the way the world is now. They'd have a really diabolical and moody presence and perhaps be feared. But instead they all have hilarious flame-pouf hairstyles and nobody's afraid of them and all they do is strike poses and talk about how cool they are.

well team galactic had similar goals, and they were even more clueless

RandomDSdevel November 14th, 2013 5:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Icecold* (Post 7889090)
THE ENTIRE KALOS POPULATION IS MADE UP OF COLDHEARTED FREAKS!

Yup, French people are weird all right!

Quote:

Originally Posted by wertcraft (Post 7907491)
to be honest, i hated unova, but sinnohs story was pretty good, unova had a team with no logic to it.

I've always wondered what would happen if Cyrus came back from the nether world into which he disappeared after Gen. IV (in fact, I've actually started to think about what would happen if his motives were to end up being merged with those of Team Plasma after the people with these motives had coincidentally met somewhere in between Sinnoh and Unova–I have some rough drafts of an 'Aeonn' region that I've based loosely off of the area where Michigan's upper and lower peninsulas since I live in Indiana, which is quite close to the 'Great Lakes' area of the US–and created some new combo plan that incorporates both Team Galactic's desires to create an all-new universe and Team Plasma's wish to separate people and Pokémon but that can't be stopped but backfires at the last second so that somebody else can repair the damage done to the space-time continuum in such a way that some Pokémon-only places remain for Mystery Dungeon games.

Marionz November 14th, 2013 11:19 PM

the game is getting mature, this much i can say about it.. definitely. i was also surprised by the fact the team flare got killed and lysandre dead..... and there are so many part of the story yet to explore. i need a sequel on this like in BW to BW2..

Colress Machine November 15th, 2013 5:28 AM

I was actually pretty taken back when Lysandre said he was going to kill all the Pokémon and people who weren't in Team Flare. Not disgusted though, it was just a pretty crazy "twist" to me since I didn't expect anything that dark. Especially the part when you're in Geosenge town and the Team Flare members are blocking you from the below route and you hear them talking about blocking out the screams of the other Pokémon. Really pretty dark!!
I'm pretty surprised that reviewers said that the plot was bland and just the same as well haha.

bobandbill November 15th, 2013 6:49 AM

Well, to be fair, a certain Ground type Pokemon back in gen one counts as the first death in a Pokemon game, I'd say. (Sure you don't see it, but then this is also a so-called Disney death too. To the point where people speculate he's alive too).

Anyways, my reaction? 'What'. A sceptical and disbelieving sort of what. =/ (I recently beat this part in my playthrough). Sure, Pokemon plots aren't very heavy to begin with, and I usually just play for the gameplay and Pokemon rather than plot. And this may have been an attempt to be ~dark and edgy~. But it was just so poorly executed! Characters do not comment on it anywhere near enough (your rivals basically go 'lalala let's continue on our adventure then! ^^'). There's no real sense of urgency by anyone else. (Compare to RSE. People comment on the changed weather conditions. You can see the rain/heat in other nearby towns too. Here? A few people comment on it, and some do not at all in the town. Outside of it? Few and far between.) It's too condensed too (you battle Lysandre three times in the space of an hour, two tops? Uh... and he's wearing what exactly in the last battle? Where did he get a mega stone from? Why did he cry for a moment and that never be mentioned again? How did AZ get out of that jail anyways? And so forth.)

It's a pity as there is potential there. But compared to BW's plot for instance (which mind you was far from flawed itself), it's many steps backwards in many areas. Oh well, at least I play more for the Pokemon and gameplay anyway. Nonetheless... I prefer a decent plot to a rushed and flawed one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artemis (Post 7933627)
That's a very interesting perspective and one that did not occur to me while playing the game. Lysandre for all intents and purposes wanted to create a better world where everyone could live fair and equally without war. He was angry at the world and how humans and Pokémon alike were destroying it through constant battle. Clearly, he viewed it as an ugly place to be in and wanted to rid the world of this "ugly" to create a more beautiful life for people to live in.

It makes sense now why there would only be a select few who survive through Lysandre's plans and why the price to join was so costly. They were literally buying there way into a new life, a beautiful life as you so acutely pointed out. Since the price was so high and given the hoity-toity atmosphere of Kalos, it's no wonder why the grunts were so focused on their looks, feeling like they were better than others, and more superior. They knew they were the lucky few going to live to see a better world while the rest of us and Pokémon would die from their destruction. In their eyes, we were the peasants who couldn't afford the new lifestyle they dreamed to live in.

The sort of potential I mentioned. A pity this was never made clear or used as a focal point. After all, it's not presented as a main thing! Early on you certainly can't tell what their motives are, or how to join and all.
Quote:

It was certainly a dark story, probably the darkest, but there are ways Lysandre and Team Flare could have stuck out more throughout the storyline, something I hope can be rectified in a third version, or better yet, sequels.
Idk about darkest, myself. It's rather similar to the plan of Galactic after all (in general - the whole 'screw everyone else so I can have my own ideal world' deal), while Colosseum/XD challenge it with the implications of Pokemon being tortured and etc into a Shadow state (and look how well that went for Lugia...plus the general setting too is darker/more fitting for such a theme than happy-go-lucky France Kalos).

I also hope they improve stuff if they make a third game or sequel or whatever. Because there's a fair bit they can work on.

LoudSilence November 15th, 2013 7:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aminta (Post 7932533)
What really confuses me is this - what the heck was with the "fashion and flair!" mantras of Team Flare members?
There's a total disconnect between the leader of the organization, the goals of the organization, and the constituent members of the organization. Team Flare members don't really talk about cleansing the world, ending warfare and strife, how much faith they have in Lysandre and his cause... All they consistently talk about is the Team Flare uniform and how stylish/cool/fashionable/radical they think they are.

Lysandre isn't a model or a pop star, he's not a fashion designer or an artist. He's some perpetually broody older man who hates the world the way it is now. He's bitter, grumpy, taciturn. So why would his organization consist of a bunch of flamboyant fashion aficionados and people wearing weird cyber goggles and green lipstick? It's just... weird. It doesn't make any sense.

You'd think members of an organization with goals like Lysandre's would all be very stern, serious, pessimistic about the way the world is now. They'd have a really diabolical and moody presence and perhaps be feared. But instead they all have hilarious flame-pouf hairstyles and nobody's afraid of them and all they do is strike poses and talk about how cool they are.


My thoughts exactly. They hinted at Lysandre liking "beauty" but his grunts didn't seem to care about beauty, but rather style. I tried hard but I couldn't make any connection between the leader and the led; if Lysandre didn't have the colour scheme and crazy hair-do I wouldn't have even guessed he was Team Flare's boss. The admins were also a waste of potential, they had no character at all and were just kind of there.

I wish they would have gone into Malva and her role in Team Flare a bit more. She just says it but there was no hint of her involvement or what she really thought of them and their downfall. I dunno.

I miss Team Rocket :(

RandomDSdevel November 15th, 2013 9:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wertcraft (Post 7910836)
there are rarely sequels, the only one in a passage of time is black and white 2. all others: yellow, crystal, emerald, and platinum are all the same timeline.

You're forgetting that Generation II was a direct sequel to Generation I, dude.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KittenKoder (Post 7932473)
Actually, every region is a sequel, and time does pass. New games always have references to previous ones. The BW2 is easier to spot, but all the games do go in a sequential order, and for that to happen, time has to progress. What they do is just not tell us how much time has passed, that ambiguity allows them to avoid plot holes common in many other series.

Technically, common wisdom says that the Hoenn and Kanto games actually occur at about the same point in the timeline, right?

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire November 15th, 2013 4:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandomDSdevel (Post 7937328)
You're forgetting that Generation II was a direct sequel to Generation I, dude.



Technically, common wisdom says that the Hoenn and Kanto games actually occur at about the same point in the timeline, right?

I think Hoenn takes place one year or so after Kanto. There's not much proof on when it takes place...

I hope that they fix the houses in a third version as that seemed off...in all other generations they would have these kinds of things fixed by the time you left, or by the time you finish the E4...

Slimpack November 15th, 2013 5:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoudSilence (Post 7937191)
My thoughts exactly. They hinted at Lysandre liking "beauty" but his grunts didn't seem to care about beauty, but rather style. I tried hard but I couldn't make any connection between the leader and the led; if Lysandre didn't have the colour scheme and crazy hair-do I wouldn't have even guessed he was Team Flare's boss. The admins were also a waste of potential, they had no character at all and were just kind of there.

I wish they would have gone into Malva and her role in Team Flare a bit more. She just says it but there was no hint of her involvement or what she really thought of them and their downfall. I dunno.

I miss Team Rocket :(

I think that is the connection. Just the idea of preserving beauty I suppose. I remember at the beginning of the game lysandre was talking with Diantha about how beauty should last forever. I guess the grunt's interpretation of lasting beauty was to be stylish, or something, I dunno.

Also I didn't really find this game to be all that dark. but that might only be because I didnt play Gen V, and I've been reading Naruto lately, so the idea of a villain thinking the only way to save the world is to kill most of it's inhabitants is kinda played out to me, so there wasn't any shock value.

CoffeeDrink November 16th, 2013 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magmaruby and Aquasapphire (Post 7934453)
Yeah...but Xerosic and the other scientiests weren't at the secret base, they were still in the Cafe most likely. . .

I meant all of them, koff~

Not all of them died. This is what I was responding too: "What was your reaction on the first ever confirmed death in the pokemon franchise, where lysandre killed himself as well as all of team flare?"

Just to clarify that I'm not an idiot. Yeah, I may come across as the stupid one but we all know that text translates poorly. Like a 95% reduction from face to face conversation. No biggie, just something we all need reminding of, koffi~

wertcraft November 16th, 2013 7:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobandbill (Post 7937120)
Well, to be fair, a certain Ground type Pokemon back in gen one counts as the first death in a Pokemon game, I'd say. (Sure you don't see it, but then this is also a so-called Disney death too. To the point where people speculate he's alive too).

Anyways, my reaction? 'What'. A sceptical and disbelieving sort of what. =/ (I recently beat this part in my playthrough). Sure, Pokemon plots aren't very heavy to begin with, and I usually just play for the gameplay and Pokemon rather than plot. And this may have been an attempt to be ~dark and edgy~. But it was just so poorly executed! Characters do not comment on it anywhere near enough (your rivals basically go 'lalala let's continue on our adventure then! ^^'). There's no real sense of urgency by anyone else. (Compare to RSE. People comment on the changed weather conditions. You can see the rain/heat in other nearby towns too. Here? A few people comment on it, and some do not at all in the town. Outside of it? Few and far between.) It's too condensed too (you battle Lysandre three times in the space of an hour, two tops? Uh... and he's wearing what exactly in the last battle? Where did he get a mega stone from? Why did he cry for a moment and that never be mentioned again? How did AZ get out of that jail anyways? And so forth.)

It's a pity as there is potential there. But compared to BW's plot for instance (which mind you was far from flawed itself), it's many steps backwards in many areas. Oh well, at least I play more for the Pokemon and gameplay anyway. Nonetheless... I prefer a decent plot to a rushed and flawed one.

The sort of potential I mentioned. A pity this was never made clear or used as a focal point. After all, it's not presented as a main thing! Early on you certainly can't tell what their motives are, or how to join and all.
Idk about darkest, myself. It's rather similar to the plan of Galactic after all (in general - the whole 'screw everyone else so I can have my own ideal world' deal), while Colosseum/XD challenge it with the implications of Pokemon being tortured and etc into a Shadow state (and look how well that went for Lugia...plus the general setting too is darker/more fitting for such a theme than happy-go-lucky France Kalos).

I also hope they improve stuff if they make a third game or sequel or whatever. Because there's a fair bit they can work on.

i meant of a human death, and while giovanni has speculation, there is no confirmation, but you never see lysandre even run, then the whole town is blown up and you and your friends swell as the professor and az are the only ones outside

Slimpack November 17th, 2013 2:35 AM

wait, I just noticed something. when you get the absolite from your rival s/he says that maybe the absolite will give lysandre something to be hopeful about. So wouldn't that mean he's alive? otherwise they would've referred to him in the past tense.

Trainer Galza November 17th, 2013 4:16 AM

I thought the story was handled better than Black and White.. which seemed to try to do something epic but didn't really have the scope or the direction first. I appreciated that, for what it's worth, X and Y kept their story relatively unobtrusive in that regard.. but I can't help but laugh at how ridiculous it sounds with having pokemon actually participating in wars.. considering the fact that if 3000 years ago, the whole Pokeball/Pokecenter/PC/Training facilities probably didn't even exist at the time. One would think the petty concerns of man would be beyond them.. being most of them seem to be nothing more than animals and what not.

Honestly.. as much as I loved team flare, mostly based on how absolutely ridiculous they were both in concept and execution, I'm growing a little tired of these "evil teams" rising up out of nowhere with some plans of global domination in mind. They get in the way too much and bring the whole trainer's journey to a grinding halt. I enjoyed the game far more just running from town to town and battling with your in game friends and watching them grow (though honestly the only one who sorta does is your rival).. I legitimately started feeling bad for Serena every time I roflstomped her into the pavement.. because your rival seemed to actually have character.. most of the time.. and thats good! I'd really like to see the games focus more on that. The actual journey rather than some evil team sidequest that you need to put a damper on.

wertcraft November 26th, 2013 2:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trainer Galza (Post 7940384)
I thought the story was handled better than Black and White.. which seemed to try to do something epic but didn't really have the scope or the direction first. I appreciated that, for what it's worth, X and Y kept their story relatively unobtrusive in that regard.. but I can't help but laugh at how ridiculous it sounds with having pokemon actually participating in wars.. considering the fact that if 3000 years ago, the whole Pokeball/Pokecenter/PC/Training facilities probably didn't even exist at the time. One would think the petty concerns of man would be beyond them.. being most of them seem to be nothing more than animals and what not.

Honestly.. as much as I loved team flare, mostly based on how absolutely ridiculous they were both in concept and execution, I'm growing a little tired of these "evil teams" rising up out of nowhere with some plans of global domination in mind. They get in the way too much and bring the whole trainer's journey to a grinding halt. I enjoyed the game far more just running from town to town and battling with your in game friends and watching them grow (though honestly the only one who sorta does is your rival).. I legitimately started feeling bad for Serena every time I roflstomped her into the pavement.. because your rival seemed to actually have character.. most of the time.. and thats good! I'd really like to see the games focus more on that. The actual journey rather than some evil team sidequest that you need to put a damper on.

this is all my thoughts listed, wow

icelovebunnies9 November 26th, 2013 2:05 PM

I thought the storyline moved really quickly, one minute you first meet Lysandre and suddenly you're fighting Xerneas/Yveltal. But the plot is a bit interesting, and I do understand where Lysandre is coming from. His point of view on things makes sense and I understand why he's doing what he's doing.

Their fashion nonsense is really weird though. They have no sense of style. Well, I don't have that great of a sense of style so I'll just assume they have a bad sense of style. XD

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire November 26th, 2013 2:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trainer Galza (Post 7940384)
I thought the story was handled better than Black and White.. which seemed to try to do something epic but didn't really have the scope or the direction first. I appreciated that, for what it's worth, X and Y kept their story relatively unobtrusive in that regard.. but I can't help but laugh at how ridiculous it sounds with having pokemon actually participating in wars.. considering the fact that if 3000 years ago, the whole Pokeball/Pokecenter/PC/Training facilities probably didn't even exist at the time. One would think the petty concerns of man would be beyond them.. being most of them seem to be nothing more than animals and what not.

Honestly.. as much as I loved team flare, mostly based on how absolutely ridiculous they were both in concept and execution, I'm growing a little tired of these "evil teams" rising up out of nowhere with some plans of global domination in mind. They get in the way too much and bring the whole trainer's journey to a grinding halt. I enjoyed the game far more just running from town to town and battling with your in game friends and watching them grow (though honestly the only one who sorta does is your rival).. I legitimately started feeling bad for Serena every time I roflstomped her into the pavement.. because your rival seemed to actually have character.. most of the time.. and thats good! I'd really like to see the games focus more on that. The actual journey rather than some evil team sidequest that you need to put a damper on.

Well they may have had other methods to capture them. Maybe using apricorn balls, as they were used long before the industrial version of the Pokeball according a woman in Azalea town. Or using less powerful versions of the red chain.

Pinkie-Dawn December 5th, 2013 8:06 AM

I'm not sure if we should consider Lysandre as being evil, because just like Cyrus' point of view about emotion being destructive, his motivation on wiping out every Pokémon in the world does bring a point. From what we've seen from the 3000 year war, previous evil teams, and how the Pokémon were used Movie 8 and Movie 12, people have been fighting over the control of Pokémon. It is human nature that war is brought upon by greed, and the once the human race becomes overpopulated, our main sources become scarce, making wars more devastating than they were before. Hypothetically speaking, the only to end all wars is either destroy all humans or destroy the main source that brought them to greed in the first place, which were Pokémon. The plot is basically where Lysandre is secretly the good guy all along whereas you, the main hero, are the true villain for crushing his goal to save the world. Which brings me to this question: Do you agree with his goal? How does this reflect to the real world?


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