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-   -   6th Gen Lysandre... [SPOILERS] (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=310113)

jazneo October 17th, 2013 3:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unicorn (Post 7887733)
at least that i can understand to an extent because in the tv series children like continuity and it would be complicated to age him each season i guess?

but. but.

i don't know, think what you want, but i'm pretty sure he killed himself and took down whoever else was in that HQ base with him. nobody could've survived an explosion like that.

but y'know, instead of screaming and crying and worrying about the charred bodies under the wreckage in the middle of what used to be a town, we just go to the next town to celebrate and the NPC villagers are the same as ever.

like. your friends were in those houses. why are you not concerned?!


Possible them build were own by the Team Flare npc.

Nillemi October 18th, 2013 7:30 AM

That was suicide?
From what I gathered, I thought he was cursing you with eternal life.

abcde123456 October 18th, 2013 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burg (Post 7888702)
That was suicide?
From what I gathered, I thought he was cursing you with eternal life.

How would he go about doing that? The player has already caught/defeated Xerneas and I thought you needed it in the machine to do that. I know I'm missing something. Someone please explain because I have a feeling that this is true.

unicorn October 18th, 2013 12:38 PM

i think his goal was to grant all of you with eternal life?
but when we ran out of the base he kind of freaked out, right?
and don't forget that some people view death as an "eternal resting/eternal afterlife".

i mean. i dunno.
if you've watched legend of korra at all, he kind of pulls a tarrlok.
he gets so angry that he just kind of uses the machine but it backfires?
and it explodes. in the cut-scene it shows that it was clearly a huuuuge blast.
and in the end he's trapped under a pile of rubble in the middle of a huge hole.

so even if he is still alive, he's doomed to be trapped down there
alone. forever. in the dark.

but i doubt he lived. i doubt anyone else on the weapon lived, either.

Z25 October 18th, 2013 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abcde123456 (Post 7889006)
How would he go about doing that? The player has already caught/defeated Xerneas and I thought you needed it in the machine to do that. I know I'm missing something. Someone please explain because I have a feeling that this is true.


Here is what happens: he promises eternal life and you and your friends run away immediately but he sets the device off thinking he can curse you with it before you escape. The machine has a little power left so it fires but it's to weak to go full purpose and flies back down into the machine blowing everything in the town up. The end....

abcde123456 October 18th, 2013 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoroarkrules25 (Post 7889032)
Here is what happens: he promises eternal life and you and your friends run away immediately but he sets the device off thinking he can curse you with it before you escape. The machine has a little power left so it fires but it's to weak to go full purpose and flies back down into the machine blowing everything in the town up. The end....

I see. Thank you! Imagine if we get to see our player end up like AZ in Gen 16 :P I know this is off-topic but the inhabitants of Geosenge are probably deranged. The town blew up, houses got overturned and all they have to say is that there's now a huge hole in the ground.

*Icecold* October 18th, 2013 12:48 PM

Lysandre never died. You may have interpreted that he died, but there's no actual proof that he did. It's your personal headcanon.

But I sure hope he didn't! He's very, very close to being my favorite main villain, Cyrus beating him by a hair. He's the most in-depth character in the entire game. No other character has as much personality as him.

And Team Flare is based both on fashion and fire.

Z25 October 18th, 2013 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abcde123456 (Post 7889042)
I see. Thank you! Imagine if we get to see our player end up like AZ in Gen 16 :P I know this is off-topic but the inhabitants of Geosenge are probably deranged. The town blew up, houses got overturned and all they have to say is that there's now a huge hole in the ground.

Lol, although it could be PDSD, where they sorta pretend it never happened.

unicorn October 18th, 2013 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Icecold* (Post 7889051)
Lysandre never died. You may have interpreted that he died, but there's no actual proof that he did. It's your personal headcanon.

there's no actual proof that he lived, either.
i mean. i personally think he's done for?
and i'm not saying that you're wrong or anything
but what makes you think he's still alive?

i'm just curious because i don't think anyone could've survived an explosion like that.
and if by some miracle he survived that explosion, he would've been crushed by debris.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoroarkrules25
... PDSD, where they sorta pretend it never happened.

... do you mean PTSD?
people with PTSD don't pretend a traumatic event never took place.
that's psychological repression. [ and even then, that's not pretending, that's the brain protecting itself ]
pretending something never happened is just denial.
people with PTSD have flashbacks and severe bouts of terror and nightmares about the event.
:/ sorry for off topic.

*Icecold* October 18th, 2013 1:10 PM

Hold on a second, I couldn't remember/fully interpret what happened at the end of the game. Unicorn, I agree, he did die.

I finally remember now! The explosion of the ultimate machine took the secret base with it, so Shauna, Calem/Serena and the player have to run out just in time before it collapses. Everyone else inside dies.



But anyways, the worst thing about the death of Team Flare is that nobody gives a crap. Sycamore is just like "so sorry about Lysandre's behavior" like he's his babysitter or something. Everyone else is just happy they're gone. I don't care if they were trying to destroy the world! A lot of people knew that their goal wasn't all bad, it's just what they were doing wasn't right! And Lysandre even learned his lesson at the end!

THE ENTIRE KALOS POPULATION IS MADE UP OF COLDHEARTED FREAKS!

Sceptile14 October 18th, 2013 3:26 PM

I could see a situation where he actually survives and trys something else in sequels, which would be pretty awesome as he was a very interesting character, but was very underused. It is most likely that he did die though... He wouldn't really be able to survive that unless he was helped by something.

Jimmyray October 18th, 2013 3:31 PM

I never actually noticed a direct implication of death to anyone, but even if it's true, hasn't death been a theme since day 1? Remember Cubone's mother and the graveyard etc.? And the first movie when Mewtwo escapes the lab?

unicorn October 18th, 2013 7:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Icecold* (Post 7889090)
Hold on a second, I couldn't remember/fully interpret what happened at the end of the game. Unicorn, I agree, he did die.

I finally remember now! The explosion of the ultimate machine took the secret base with it, so Shauna, Calem/Serena and the player have to run out just in time before it collapses. Everyone else inside dies.



But anyways, the worst thing about the death of Team Flare is that nobody gives a crap. Sycamore is just like "so sorry about Lysandre's behavior" like he's his babysitter or something. Everyone else is just happy they're gone. I don't care if they were trying to destroy the world! A lot of people knew that their goal wasn't all bad, it's just what they were doing wasn't right! And Lysandre even learned his lesson at the end!

THE ENTIRE KALOS POPULATION IS MADE UP OF COLDHEARTED FREAKS!

hahaha!! that's exactly what i was freaked out by!!
nobody seemed to notice and/or care about it!
even the townspeople!

and all of the houses that were overturned--nobody checked up on them!!
no one went to see if their friends were okay!! and they're STILL laying over!
i'm so, so, so confused by the lack of panic.

CyanideEspeon October 19th, 2013 2:38 AM

I just couldn't not feel sorry for Lysandre. He was trying to do what he believed was right, even though what he wanted to do was wrong. Also, we get a huge parade and Lysandre doesn't even get a tiny bit of something remotely funerary. In an attempt to fix this injustice, I named my male Litleo (now a Pyroar) after him. I also like to think that your four friends and Professor Sycamore feel awful, but keep it a secret. Also, did Lysandre's Pokémon die? If they did, shouldn't the NPCs at least feel sad about them?

wertcraft October 19th, 2013 6:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unicorn (Post 7889544)
hahaha!! that's exactly what i was freaked out by!!
nobody seemed to notice and/or care about it!
even the townspeople!

and all of the houses that were overturned--nobody checked up on them!!
no one went to see if their friends were okay!! and they're STILL laying over!
i'm so, so, so confused by the lack of panic.

well what do you expect in a world where team rocket can put on a mustache and trick people with more than 15 years of experience identifying them.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire October 19th, 2013 7:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wertcraft (Post 7880695)
What was your reaction on the first ever confirmed death in the pokemon franchise, where lysandre killed himself as well as all of team flare? mine was horrified by how dark it was compared to the other evil organizations ways of splitting up. this is besides the fact that his logic doesn't make sense. he would want to recreate civilization without pokemon, and to rid the world of pokemon, he calls upon the pokemon of death its self (assuming you are playing Y) to kill all the pokemon. this logic doesn't workwhen you consider the fact that after everyone is already dead, if he planned on all people living, there would be even more fighting, something he didn't want, and if he wiped everyone else except for team flare, wouldn't yvetal kill them anyway. how was he planning on getting rid of his ultimate weapon? this team is my favorite, but it has the least logic of any team i have seen.

Well the King managed to survive...as did citizens of Kalos he spared as can be seen as people still exist...so I'm guessing Team Flare would do whatever the King did to spare themselves.

The plot of Team Flare was similar to a plot of a character in a story I'm working on...so it was interesting to see how Pokemon executed the whole kill everyone to create a better world plotline (also reinforces the idea that no matter how original one thinks one's idea is...someone somewhere is doing it...aka nothing new under the sun).

I understood where Lysandre was going with his idea...but he went about it the wrong way...taking innocent lives to stop the lost of lives seems so hypocritical...though I guess that's why they're called Team Flare...fight Fire with Fire...or Death with Death.

Legobricks October 19th, 2013 8:01 PM

I liked him; potent character, just not handled well. The aftermath of his apparent death was handled the most poorly — there's just real no acknowledgement of him after that point. It's very odd. The whole story feels 'disconnected' in some way, actually.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Zanekin (Post 7883138)
The story was very shallow with the exception of AZ's story there was no character development and I'm still annoyed by them being team flare for no reason. No explanation or noticeable reason for that name. Some use fire types, but not all of them, and their mission has nothing to do with fire.

The notion of fire (in this case the 'fire' of the weapon) being a purifying force has long been with humanity.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire October 19th, 2013 8:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cassino (Post 7891021)
I liked him; potent character, just not handled well. The aftermath of his apparent death was handled the most poorly — there's just real no acknowledgement of him after that point. It's very odd. The whole story feels 'disconnected' in some way, actually.



The notion of fire (in this case the 'fire' of the weapon) being a purifying force has long been with humanity.

I agree...this has got to be the most 'disconnected' story thus far...I can't even think of a close second as all the others' are connected to the same degree.

I feel that after Gen V's placement of the evil plots...Lysander's plot coming before the eight gym makes him and Team Flare come off as a side thing...to just be fogotten. Even when compared to the other pre-8th gym teams from the pre-Gen V era Flare's is disconnected in location...as Team Rocket's final big plot was in Saffron, and their dissolution after fighting the 8th gym (ironically) due to defeating Giovanni, Team Magma and Aqua's take place in the home of the eight gym...thus giving one of the best reason's one can't battle a gym before defeating the evil team as the actual gym and it's city...no the whole region was on the brink of destruction...
Now Team Galactic...it's far from the eight gym sure...but their plot and story made up for it due to it's epicness.

wertcraft October 22nd, 2013 4:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazneo (Post 7884410)
i would like see the great pokemon wars as anime. have to wonder why the pokemon had wars lol

there was a pokemon war in the lucario movie

KittenKoder October 22nd, 2013 4:06 PM

If any Pokemon character needs to be killed ... this is the one. Lysander pisses me off, willing to sacrifice pokemon for his bad idea. No, killing pokemon is worse than stealing them by so many levels.

Emfg October 22nd, 2013 5:26 PM

Can't say I truly care about Lysandre being gone. He was literally the typical, boring bad guy with barely no motives besides "herp da derp cleansing the world of impurity" or whatever.
Not to mention everything ended waaaaaay too quickly.

I really hope (assuming there is) Pokemon Z will explain a lot more about the story and the region. The lore behind the legendary pokemon are also kind of boring and barely spoken of.

CyanideEspeon October 23rd, 2013 5:00 AM

I'm hoping that Z is going to be a retelling of X and Y, and that a lot more will be done with Lysandre, since I found him kind of interesting, full of potential, and dare I say it, sort of likable. Yet as much as I like him, I do strongly believe that what Lysandre wanted to do was wrong.

Sebastian_Sommer October 23rd, 2013 5:24 AM

I wish they had explained Lysandre's reasons with a little more detail, we basically didn't witness any scarring memory or experience that made him believe in his extreme ideals. But all we get is AZ's story about his traumatic experience, which incidentally could have been avoided since he was the king that time (who would honestly send a small Florette to a full scale pokemon war?)

SpokeyDokey October 23rd, 2013 5:38 AM

I admire the approach Game Freak took here, but I felt that Team Flare, primarily in appearance, did not completely personify "darkness". One might think that the juxtaposition between the character of Team Flare and the story might elicit an unsettling feeling, but for me the the effort just came off goofy--as a missed opportunity. Too the philosophy they aimed to present felt lost because the characters did not completely embody their goals nor was the world in which you, the gamer, played effected in any way by actions taken and not taken. The game gives you opportunities to make choices, but no matter what choice you make the game still makes the correct decisions in virtue of story progression.

The story is certainly better and more memorable, at least for me, but it could have been something more.

rivinus October 23rd, 2013 6:18 AM

trying to remove pokemon from the world?

Sounds like peta lol


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