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-   -   6th Gen Lysandre... [SPOILERS] (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=310113)

wertcraft October 23rd, 2013 4:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmyray (Post 7889224)
I never actually noticed a direct implication of death to anyone, but even if it's true, hasn't death been a theme since day 1? Remember Cubone's mother and the graveyard etc.? And the first movie when Mewtwo escapes the lab?

by this i meant human death, and I'm referring to the games, not the anime.

aonshinzo October 23rd, 2013 5:32 PM

Storyline was definitely surprisingly dark....usually pokemon don't even mention the word "death" fully, and to go from that to a storyline base on the stopping of GENOCIDE is.....random. I liked Team Flare and the story in all but, I agree it seemed like they just shoved it in between the 7th and 8th gym, I wished it was expanded more. Easily the 2nd best storyline though, it just wasn't on Unova level despite how dark it was.

I also wished the characters supported more (like Gym Leaders and E4 members) I mean...a guy is threatening you with complete Genocide and nobody seems to bat an eye....

TreeKangaroo October 25th, 2013 8:15 AM

Well, with the exception of black and white(2), most Pokemon games reach the peak of their story between the 7th and 8th gyms.

wertcraft October 25th, 2013 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unicorn (Post 7887668)
i was so confused about it... but what concerned me even more was how nobody seemed to really care?

when we all left his secret base there was like one person outside all of those flipped houses and the huge gaping hole and all he had to say was
"haha! we might have just had a bunch of rocks before but now we have a huge ol' hole!"

?!?!?!??!

where are all the concerned adults and police and firemen and grieving families i dONT UNDERSTAND

yeah i know right, makes more sense where its undercover, but this was in a town, and afterwards, the map pohoto of the town doesn't update, or the description

AerVaur October 26th, 2013 1:41 AM

I thought he was an okay as a villain. It probably helps that I imagined him being voiced
by Patrick Seitz.

TreeKangaroo October 26th, 2013 9:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Icecold* (Post 7889090)
Hold on a second, I couldn't remember/fully interpret what happened at the end of the game. Unicorn, I agree, he did die.

I finally remember now! The explosion of the ultimate machine took the secret base with it, so Shauna, Calem/Serena and the player have to run out just in time before it collapses. Everyone else inside dies.



But anyways, the worst thing about the death of Team Flare is that nobody gives a crap. Sycamore is just like "so sorry about Lysandre's behavior" like he's his babysitter or something. Everyone else is just happy they're gone. I don't care if they were trying to destroy the world! A lot of people knew that their goal wasn't all bad, it's just what they were doing wasn't right! And Lysandre even learned his lesson at the end!

THE ENTIRE KALOS POPULATION IS MADE UP OF COLDHEARTED FREAKS!

So that's what he meant about a beautiful world. AND THE WORKER JUST LAUGHS ABOUT IT. What a d*****.

SnowpointQuincy October 26th, 2013 10:16 AM

The Big Explosion scene is confusing. The Machine was made to grant life, but then changed into a weapon. And it still is a weapon. Then the villain threatens to make you immortal. And then, it blows up - leaving a crater.

If Lysandre is dead, or Immortal and burried under rubble.... What is going to happen in the Sequel? Team Flare is all but gone. Like a passing Fancy, no one even cares that they were part of the team, none cares to punish former team members. "Ok, That's Over" And no one cares that it happened.

What material do they have for a follow up? Maybe a completely new villain shows up like a new Passion in Kalos.

Or, Immortal Lysandre (if that is even a thing) crawls out of the rubble for revenge.

kokid99 October 26th, 2013 10:35 AM

I just hated that the legendary was just there... There was no fight in "protecting" the legendary from its original place of rest, and honestly.... All the characters in the story including the player in general just seemed so naive & oblivious to what lysandre was going to do. Besides that this game is one of my favorites :D

Z25 October 26th, 2013 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnowpointQuincy (Post 7902593)
The Big Explosion scene is confusing. The Machine was made to grant life, but then changed into a weapon. And it still is a weapon. Then the villain threatens to make you immortal. And then, it blows up - leaving a crater.

If Lysandre is dead, or Immortal and burried under rubble.... What is going to happen in the Sequel? Team Flare is all but gone. Like a passing Fancy, no one even cares that they were part of the team, none cares to punish former team members. "Ok, That's Over" And no one cares that it happened.

What material do they have for a follow up? Maybe a completely new villain shows up like a new Passion in Kalos.

Or, Immortal Lysandre (if that is even a thing) crawls out of the rubble for revenge.

My theory is that malva will lead a rebellion to revive team flare. Although hints point to something completely new in z.( if that is what it is called if it is taking place in a new region.)

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire October 26th, 2013 12:14 PM

There's no Immortality in Y though...just genocide...
In Z they'll proably aim to kill everyone but make themselves immortal...combining both parts.
I liked Lysander...but he should stay dead...or immortal under rubble...as it fits with the mortif of death and life.

wertcraft October 28th, 2013 5:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aonshinzo (Post 7897831)
Storyline was definitely surprisingly dark....usually pokemon don't even mention the word "death" fully, and to go from that to a storyline base on the stopping of GENOCIDE is.....random. I liked Team Flare and the story in all but, I agree it seemed like they just shoved it in between the 7th and 8th gym, I wished it was expanded more. Easily the 2nd best storyline though, it just wasn't on Unova level despite how dark it was.

I also wished the characters supported more (like Gym Leaders and E4 members) I mean...a guy is threatening you with complete Genocide and nobody seems to bat an eye....

to be honest, i hated unova, but sinnohs story was pretty good, unova had a team with no logic to it.

starlite1287 October 28th, 2013 7:17 PM

What really stood out to me more than anything is the houses that were overturned... I mean, really? With that huge explosion, those wood cabins should be blasted to pieces. But they are turned over like fallen chess pieces. That wood must be made of impenetrable super wood.

xRangii October 28th, 2013 7:44 PM

Guys, let's not forget we're talking about Pokemon - a game for children. While there is a strong assumption that Lysandre is dead along with some other team members, we forget about another assumption. The team disbanded and Lysandre went into hiding - they fled before the explosion occurred. While there isn't strong evidence in this, the fact that Pokemon is a children's game would support this theory.

But I would have to agree the story was dark.. Killing Pokemon 3000 years ago for the sake of his Floette ;_; But there is a happy ending, I guess - not going to spoil it! It would've been nice if the story was longer and more in depth, I just didn't feel satisfied taking down Team Flare. In my opinion, I would've liked to see more villainous acts because it barely felt like they were going to "dominate the world." I mean, come on! NPCs completely forget about them!

wertcraft October 29th, 2013 3:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rivinus (Post 7896849)
trying to remove pokemon from the world?

Sounds like peta lol

lawl yes, have you played pokemon black & blue

Redingard October 29th, 2013 3:40 PM

I'm sure all of you are mixing up what a good story is. Granted, this game was dark. Killing Pokemon is pretty damn messed up. However, that hardly makes it good. It was rushed, no development, no clear sense of direction (we only care about Team Flare until Lysandre makes threat Holo Caster announcement), and, simply put, it's a traditional Pokemon story. All of the characters are completely flat-especially your friends. People can think that the story is good. But you can't really say it's good because its dark alone. If you say that, then you can take a terra-bad movie like Bridge to Terrabithia and say it's good because it's happy. I digress. Story was lame, but that's normal.

Princess Diana October 29th, 2013 3:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starlite1287 (Post 7907617)
What really stood out to me more than anything is the houses that were overturned... I mean, really? With that huge explosion, those wood cabins should be blasted to pieces. But they are turned over like fallen chess pieces. That wood must be made of impenetrable super wood.

What stood out to me was how pretty much nobody reacted to seeing Team Flair members out and about, even post-game.

Atomic Pirate October 29th, 2013 3:50 PM

I don't remember being promised eternal life...

Whether this is because I sped through the dialogue or I was playing Y version, I'm not sure.

Either way, this guy's a pretty legit villain. Too bad Team Flare themselves were complete losers.

wertcraft October 30th, 2013 5:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnowpointQuincy (Post 7902593)
The Big Explosion scene is confusing. The Machine was made to grant life, but then changed into a weapon. And it still is a weapon. Then the villain threatens to make you immortal. And then, it blows up - leaving a crater.

If Lysandre is dead, or Immortal and burried under rubble.... What is going to happen in the Sequel? Team Flare is all but gone. Like a passing Fancy, no one even cares that they were part of the team, none cares to punish former team members. "Ok, That's Over" And no one cares that it happened.

What material do they have for a follow up? Maybe a completely new villain shows up like a new Passion in Kalos.

Or, Immortal Lysandre (if that is even a thing) crawls out of the rubble for revenge.

there are rarely sequels, the only one in a passage of time is black and white 2. all others: yellow, crystal, emerald, and platinum are all the same timeline.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elgyem (Post 7908987)
I don't remember being promised eternal life...

Whether this is because I sped through the dialogue or I was playing Y version, I'm not sure.

Either way, this guy's a pretty legit villain. Too bad Team Flare themselves were complete losers.

honestly i think the eternal life is only x because xerneas is the life pokemon

Redingard October 30th, 2013 5:09 PM

@Wertcraft

Actually, time has passed in the games. The Dragon-Type E4 says she was "brought up on stories of the mighty Time and Space dragons". She was a child during the fourth generation, and is now a somewhat old woman in the sixth. While it's not clear how much time passes in between the games, it does indeed go by.

Iceshadow3317 October 30th, 2013 5:19 PM

In X, Lysandre says he will make you immortal. When he said that, he meant to make you suffer of eternal life because there would always be evil and war in the world and all you could do is go through it and suffer.

So far Unova was the best story for me and I always have not cared for Sinnoh's story. I was really hoping that the story would blend in with running through the gyms like it did in Sinnoh.

TreeKangaroo November 1st, 2013 8:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elgyem (Post 7908987)
I don't remember being promised eternal life...

Whether this is because I sped through the dialogue or I was playing Y version, I'm not sure.

Either way, this guy's a pretty legit villain. Too bad Team Flare themselves were complete losers.

Xerosic redeems himself in the aftergame part.

wertcraft November 11th, 2013 5:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TreeKangaroo (Post 7914640)
Xerosic redeems himself in the aftergame part.

seriously, who is xerosic? can sombody explain to me?

KittenKoder November 11th, 2013 5:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wertcraft (Post 7910836)
there are rarely sequels, the only one in a passage of time is black and white 2. all others: yellow, crystal, emerald, and platinum are all the same timeline.


honestly i think the eternal life is only x because xerneas is the life pokemon

Actually, every region is a sequel, and time does pass. New games always have references to previous ones. The BW2 is easier to spot, but all the games do go in a sequential order, and for that to happen, time has to progress. What they do is just not tell us how much time has passed, that ambiguity allows them to avoid plot holes common in many other series.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnowpointQuincy (Post 7902593)
The Big Explosion scene is confusing. The Machine was made to grant life, but then changed into a weapon. And it still is a weapon. Then the villain threatens to make you immortal. And then, it blows up - leaving a crater.

If Lysandre is dead, or Immortal and burried under rubble.... What is going to happen in the Sequel? Team Flare is all but gone. Like a passing Fancy, no one even cares that they were part of the team, none cares to punish former team members. "Ok, That's Over" And no one cares that it happened.

What material do they have for a follow up? Maybe a completely new villain shows up like a new Passion in Kalos.

Or, Immortal Lysandre (if that is even a thing) crawls out of the rubble for revenge.

You bring up some interesting possibilities, but then I also think you are looking too much into the plot. The machine was actually a weapon because of how it granted life, by draining the life of every pokemon. What did bother me was how that would destroy human life in the world ... but meh, killing pokemon is plain wrong anyway and I didn't care enough to dwell on it.

PokemonTrainerRedBlueYellow November 11th, 2013 6:22 PM

Can I add you? Don't have a lot of people to play the game with. My friend code is 5214-9767-5488.

Aminta November 11th, 2013 6:31 PM

What really confuses me is this - what the heck was with the "fashion and flair!" mantras of Team Flare members?
There's a total disconnect between the leader of the organization, the goals of the organization, and the constituent members of the organization. Team Flare members don't really talk about cleansing the world, ending warfare and strife, how much faith they have in Lysandre and his cause... All they consistently talk about is the Team Flare uniform and how stylish/cool/fashionable/radical they think they are.

Lysandre isn't a model or a pop star, he's not a fashion designer or an artist. He's some perpetually broody older man who hates the world the way it is now. He's bitter, grumpy, taciturn. So why would his organization consist of a bunch of flamboyant fashion aficionados and people wearing weird cyber goggles and green lipstick? It's just... weird. It doesn't make any sense.

You'd think members of an organization with goals like Lysandre's would all be very stern, serious, pessimistic about the way the world is now. They'd have a really diabolical and moody presence and perhaps be feared. But instead they all have hilarious flame-pouf hairstyles and nobody's afraid of them and all they do is strike poses and talk about how cool they are.


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