The PokéCommunity Forums

The PokéCommunity Forums (https://www.pokecommunity.com/index.php)
-   Previous Generations (https://www.pokecommunity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=200)
-   -   6th Gen Mega Kangaskhan WAY TOO OVERPOWERED (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=311604)

XxCassiexX October 28th, 2013 2:57 PM

Mega Kangaskhan WAY TOO OVERPOWERED
 
I don't know if any of you have come across battling one yet, but I faced my first one today and there was hell to pay. Mega Kangaskhan.

So I think I'm doing great in this battle. I have SIX pokemon left. He's on his last pokemon, Kangaskhan. It goes Mega instantly, but I'm still feeling super confident. Ok, first goes down my Venomoth to an earthquake despite its focus sash (parental bond power is to hit twice in the same turn).

Drought Ninetales. Kangaskhan uses Power Up Punch. Down.

Chlrophyll Venasaur. Double Sucker Punch. Down!

Hitmonlee? Yeah Right. One hit KOed.

Jolteon hits with thunderbolt? It barely takes half his hp. Double Earthquake from Kangaskhan! Down.

And Golduck? Pfffffft. Please. God no.

Idk. This new Mega Kangaskhan seems incredibly broken to me. Power Up Punch goes double instantly for +2 attack where the second Powerup punch in a turn is stronger than the first. Really, the only ways I can see to beat it is to outspeed it and potentially use a status afflicting move that ISN'T a burn or to use an Imposter Choice Scarf'd Ditto. One hit killing that thing is unlikely and even its sucker punch always goes first. I can't imagine if someone Baton Passed boosted speed to it.

What are your guy's thoughts on this MONSTROSITY?

Redingard October 28th, 2013 3:02 PM

Mega Kangaskhan isn't OP. It has weaknesses, just like every other Pokemon. It's just about as OP a Mega Blastoise or Mega Houndoom-not at all. Maybe your Pokemon just aren't the legends you want 'em to be.

XxCassiexX October 28th, 2013 3:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redingard (Post 7907159)
Mega Kangaskhan isn't OP. It has weaknesses, just like every other Pokemon. It's just about as OP a Mega Blastoise or Mega Houndoom-not at all. Maybe your Pokemon just aren't the legends you want 'em to be.

Can you please elaborate on what weaknesses you think there are aside from speed (as I mentioned earlier)? Thanks! I want to know and this thread was made for discussion. =]

Redingard October 28th, 2013 3:12 PM

Considering how it's a Normal type, Mega Kangaskhan is extremely vulnerable. Fighting types are common, and their moves are nearly universal. I've already beaten dozens of these "OP MONSTROSITIES" with only my Lucario and Close Combat.

XxCassiexX October 28th, 2013 3:18 PM

Utilizing the speed I mentioned in the first post though, correct? (Your Lucario is faster) So, if you don't have a speedy fighting type power-hitter on your team or a quick sleep inflictor, I think you pretty much lose.

When a pokemon falls into the Uber tier, it's typically because there is only one or two ways to defeat it when using pokemon that do not also fall into the same tier.

Your method of victory falls into what I said in my first post.

For it not to be overpowered, there needs to be more than one or two ways to defeat a pokemon.

DarkDoom3000 October 28th, 2013 3:23 PM

having not fought one, it does sound a bit OP.
does the baby carry the same stats as the mother or what?

Redingard October 28th, 2013 3:27 PM

I used my Aggron (Not Mega) to whittle down a large portion of its health. A tank is a very viable option to take down something like a Mega Pokemon. On top of this, Aggron can learn a couple of Fighting moves as well.

Going off of your speedy hitters idea-we have countless of those. You can't go more than a couple of minutes without finding a good one.

And yes, I do believe the Baby is weaker. From what I've noticed, anyways. Not a fact.

XxCassiexX October 28th, 2013 3:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redingard (Post 7907192)
I used my Aggron (Not Mega) to whittle down a large portion of its health. A tank is a very viable option to take down something like a Mega Pokemon. On top of this, Aggron can learn a couple of Fighting moves as well.

Going off of your speedy hitters idea-we have countless of those. You can't go more than a couple of minutes without finding a good one.

And yes, I do believe the Baby is weaker. From what I've noticed, anyways. Not a fact.

It doesn't seem like the baby is weaker (from my perspective). It always seemed like it was hitting equally as hard, but I could be mistaken.

Anyway, regarding Aggron, I don't understand how it could take TWO earthquakes from a base 125 power pokemon... especially since it's 4x WEAK to Ground. It doesn't seem realistic, and sturdy would be over-ridden. I think that's something to look into, but perhaps. And Aggron sounds like a good opportunity for Kangaskhan to get Power-Up punch double build...

Keiran October 28th, 2013 3:35 PM

Its not overpowered, you just weren't prepared for it. Of course its gonna sweep you when you have 6 frail attackers.

I've only faced one, and my Meowstic just used Charm on it and it was useless- allowing Meowstics partner to wreck the opposing team.

Redingard October 28th, 2013 3:36 PM

My Aggron lasted two turns. That was more than enough time to do devastating damage with Brick Break. Had I gone Mega, I probably could have defeated the Mega Kangaskhan. It's pretty balanced. High attack and defence capabilities, decent movepool, but horrible weaknesses (speed and Fighting). Relatively easy Pokemon to defeat if you have the right team. Wondering why you had a Golduck there in the first place.

XxCassiexX October 28th, 2013 3:43 PM

Meowstic with Charm. Nice. And that evades the sucker punch that would have killed it. <3 You make it sound like you were in a double battle though?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redingard (Post 7907211)
My Aggron lasted two turns. That was more than enough time to do devastating damage with Brick Break. Had I gone Mega, I probably could have defeated the Mega Kangaskhan. It's pretty balanced. High attack and defence capabilities, decent movepool, but horrible weaknesses (speed and Fighting). Relatively easy Pokemon to defeat if you have the right team. Wondering why you had a Golduck there in the first place.

It makes me wonder whether or not the ones you fought had decent move sets if it couldn't even take down an Aggron in one turn. It gets 4x effective moves and hits twice. That's 8x the power. lol

Anyway, I'm not debating whether or not Mega Kangaskhan should be used, but I'm saying that it's on par with legendaries in the Uber tier. lol

BTW, Golduck is pretty good if it gets the right setup from Venomoth and it gets full power under the sun so Nintails doesn't hinder it and solar beam can't be used against me.

Spinosaurus October 28th, 2013 3:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redingard (Post 7907170)
Considering how it's a Normal type, Mega Kangaskhan is extremely vulnerable. Fighting types are common, and their moves are nearly universal. I've already beaten dozens of these "OP MONSTROSITIES" with only my Lucario and Close Combat.

...What? Normal types is a great defensive type because it only has ONE weakness. With Mega Kangaskhan's amazing bulk, it can withstand a hit from Lucario and then easily KO with a double Earthquake. Not to mention, Mega Knagskhan is actually faster than Lucario, so it'll die before getting the chance to hit. It's not like being Normal type stopped Blissey from being dominant or anything.
I beat passerby's Mega Pokemon with a freaking Talonflame, and even legendaries, but you won't see that in competitive battling.

Anyway, OP, Skarmory is your best bet. Resistant to sucker punch and STAB Return, immune to Earthquake and can PHAZE it out in case it starts boosting with Power Up Punch. It's pretty much a counter because Kangaskhan cant do anything to it. Its lack of a recovery move also makes it vulnerable to entry hazards and status, making Skarmory all the more suitable to deal with it. I'd imagine guys like Scizor, Gyarados and Forretress can deal with it pretty good as well.

XxCassiexX October 28th, 2013 3:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spinosaurus (Post 7907238)
Anyway, OP, Skarmory is your best bet. Resistant to sucker punch and STAB Return, immune to Earthquake and can PHAZE it out in case it starts boosting with Power Up Punch. It's pretty much a counter because Kangaskhan cant do anything to it. Its lack of a recovery move also makes it vulnerable to entry hazards and status, making Skarmory all the more suitable to deal with it. I'd imagine guys like Scizor, Gyarados and Forretress can deal with it pretty good as well.

That's a good idea. I'm going to consider using Skarmory if I rematch him.

I don't think Gyarados would handle the sucker punch well in the event that Kangaskhan got a Power-up Punch in. Unless you're considering Mega Gyarados, that is.

Thanks for your non-flamatory and constructive input. I'm surprised its such a rare thing to get. I guess I didn't notice because that was enough to kill everything I have. xD

P.S. I did some research and it seems the baby hits at half the power of the mother, especially with the Powerup Punch boost.

Spinosaurus October 28th, 2013 4:07 PM

A bulky dragon dance Gyarados should be a good check. Intimdate cuts off its attack, and if you predict right, you can Dragon Dance to a failed Sucker Punch. I can't imagine it using Power-Up Punch on it considering it resists it, and after a Dragon Dance, it should be able to deal very significant damage, and of course a Mega Kangaskhan can't do much to bulky Gyarados when it's attack is cut off thanks to Intimidate.

XxCassiexX October 28th, 2013 4:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spinosaurus (Post 7907283)
A bulky dragon dance Gyarados should be a good check. Intimdate cuts off its attack, and if you predict right, you can Dragon Dance to a failed Sucker Punch. I can't imagine it using Power-Up Punch on it considering it resists it, and after a Dragon Dance, it should be able to deal very significant damage, and of course a Mega Kangaskhan can't do much to bulky Gyarados when it's attack is cut off thanks to Intimidate.

Yeah, I was referring to switching into gyarados after a power punch takes out another pokemon (assuming kangaskhan and gyarados didn't come in at the same time). And I'd forgotten about intimidate. I use moxie.

Another good point, Spin.

lmcde22 October 28th, 2013 4:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spinosaurus (Post 7907238)
Skarmory is your best bet. Resistant to sucker punch and STAB Return, immune to Earthquake and can PHAZE it out in case it starts boosting with Power Up Punch.

Steel-type Pokemon no longer resist Dark-type moves in Gen VI so a double Sucker Punch is gonna hurt your Skarmory.

Assuming stealth rock is already in place I would use Scyther to hit it with a Choice Band STAB U-Turn (Immune to earthquake and resists Power-Up Punch) to switch in Mega-Lucario which can outspeed Mega Kangashkhan and use Close Combat to finish off what Scyther started.

Of course a Choice Band U-Turn Scyther is generally pretty ridiculous and useless in any other situations but this set up is specifically for Mega-Kangashkhan.

Spinosaurus October 28th, 2013 4:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lmcde22 (Post 7907302)
Steel-type Pokemon no longer resist Dark-type moves in Gen VI so a double Sucker Punch is gonna hurt your Skarmory.

Regardless of that, why would Skarmory use Brave Bird on a bulky Pokemon such as Mega Kangskhan anyway? You can just lay down spikes and watch as the Mega Pokemon can't do anything to it, and then proceed to phaze it away. Entry hazards would really cripple it down.

Also I'm not sure what Scyther can do to it. On top of being ridiculously weak to Stealth Rock, it also faces the danger of a Sucker Punch and it won't survive it. It won't survive a STAB either. Scizor would do the job much better because it's not frail.

Hiatus October 28th, 2013 5:29 PM

Mega Pokémon were meant to be a little overpowered in the first place. Pokémon reach their mega forms once they get to their fullest potential, and when they do, their strengths are supposed to be equivalent to those of legendaries. So, personally, I don't mind. I don't mind with Mega Kangaskhan being a bit too powerful. Though, there plenty of ways to take it down. If you have a Scizor on your team, then you could easily have it defeated with about two Superpower attacks. Bullet Punch may work, too, but that might take you more than two. If you have a heavy special attacker on your team, such as Latios, then you should be able to make it faint with moves like Draco Meteor and Fire Blast. If you like, you could also stall out Mega Kangaskhan. As stated before, Kangaskhan doesn't have access to any recovery move. If you have it poisoned and survive a few attacks from it, then within about eight to nine turns, this Pokémon will be taken down. (:

XxCassiexX October 28th, 2013 6:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perdition Haze (Post 7907432)
Mega Pokémon were meant to be a little overpowered in the first place. Pokémon reach their mega forms once they get to their fullest potential, and when they do, their strengths were supposed to be equivalent to those of legendaries. So, personally, I don't mind. I don't mind with Mega Kangaskhan being a bit too powerful.

I agree with a lot of what you say. With it meant to be overpowered, for one. When I say it's "way too overpowered" i mean it's better off battling strong pokemon like Mewtwo, Kyogre, and Groudon. Pokemon of that level.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perdition Haze (Post 7907432)
Though, there plenty of ways to take it down. If you have a Scizor on your team, then you could easily have it defeated with about two Superpower attacks. Bullet Punch may work, too, but that'll take you more than two. If you have a heavy special attacker on your team, such as Latios, then you should be able to make it faint with moves like Draco Meteor and Fire Blast. If you like, you could also stall out Mega Kangaskhan. As stated before, Kangaskhan doesn't have access to any recovery move. If you have it poisoned and survive a few attacks from it, then within about eight to nine turns, this Pokémon will be taken down. (:

Regarding Latios, I think it'd be taken down with a Sucker Punch (100% confident if Kangaskhan had a boost). Scizor might be able to survive one turn, but I think on the second turn it'd be killed by an Earthquake. And if Kangaskhan had a power-up punch boost before Scizor came to play, I don't see scizor doing very well.

Poison could work, but again, you need a speedy status-affliction pokemon. I don't know how you could stall it out without putting it to sleep. Are you planning a quick substitute/leftovers user?

9000chainz October 29th, 2013 4:30 PM

Mega Kangaskhan is nowhere near OP. Its checks come in the form of any physical wall or any ghost since it loses Scrappy. Aegislash is the perfect counter, since it cannot hit it with Power-Up Punch and it doesn't have the STABs off anything else to 2HKO Aegislash. A Sacred Sword after one Swords Dance is all you need to knock it out.

Oshamaru October 29th, 2013 4:48 PM

I didn't have much trouble, but gosh, I thought that the second attack it makes was a typeless one. But no, it keeps the type and I think it keeps the Base Power, too. :I

XxCassiexX October 29th, 2013 9:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9000chainz (Post 7909053)
Mega Kangaskhan is nowhere near OP. Its checks come in the form of any physical wall or any ghost since it loses Scrappy. Aegislash is the perfect counter, since it cannot hit it with Power-Up Punch and it doesn't have the STABs off anything else to 2HKO Aegislash. A Sacred Sword after one Swords Dance is all you need to knock it out.

Aegislash and most ghosts aren't excellent counters because of Earthquake and their inherent frailness. Drifblim is a more viable option because it flies and isn't offensive.

Also be prepared for a Kangaskhan outrage.

There are probably SOME physical walls that can work, but you'd have to be more specific. It certainly isn't "ANY" physical wall.

In the hands of a semi-competent user, Kangaskhan will most likely take down at least a couple pokemon, barring priority status or near perfect counters (such as skarmory and togekiss).

acatfrommars November 28th, 2013 9:32 PM

I think that a lot of the mega pokemon in this generation seem overpowered. Mega Blaziken and Mega Charizard Y seem the most powerful to me.

This moveset kills with Mega Kenga in competitive battles:

Sucker Punch
Return
Earthquake
Power Up Punch

Findecano87 December 7th, 2013 4:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XxCassiexX (Post 7907508)
I agree with a lot of what you say. With it meant to be overpowered, for one. When I say it's "way too overpowered" i mean it's better off battling strong pokemon like Mewtwo, Kyogre, and Groudon. Pokemon of that level.



Regarding Latios, I think it'd be taken down with a Sucker Punch (100% confident if Kangaskhan had a boost). Scizor might be able to survive one turn, but I think on the second turn it'd be killed by an Earthquake. And if Kangaskhan had a power-up punch boost before Scizor came to play, I don't see scizor doing very well.

Poison could work, but again, you need a speedy status-affliction pokemon. I don't know how you could stall it out without putting it to sleep. Are you planning a quick substitute/leftovers user?

I've just had Tyranitar survive the doubled power-up punch attack today. Having a Tyranitar with Toxic is a way to deal with him... (my Tyranitar unfortunately didn't have Toxic though). Just a thought to consider when building a team to check/counter MegaKhan.

Besides MegaKhan my team has appeared to be weak to Fairies and a teams with lots of bulk or high speed pokemon. Just tweaks that need to be made. Theoretically, from your post earlier in this thread than this quote if Golduck relies on other pokemon to set him up I would drop him and Venomoth. Could use those slots as checks or counters to MegaKhan. Its just my opinion. But rather than a high speed status inflicter or a entry hazard user or staller a bulky Toxic user or the Prankster Klefki with Will-O-Wisp would be good. Prankster Klefki would cripple MegaKhan with the Burned status.

大輔 December 7th, 2013 5:13 PM

I use Kangaskhan for my Normal Gym team, and it does work many wonders. However, that's not to say it's not impossible to defeat. In fact the second hit is just a little extra damage from the baby kangaskhan. It's not like it can't be beaten, a Lucario can easily take it out with aura sphere, close combat, or drain punch. And pokemon who are steel, ghost, fighting have somewhat of an advantage while fighting against it.

SidDays December 7th, 2013 5:16 PM

Sableye is also pretty good as a counter. If the Will-O-Wisp hits, there's pretty much nothing M-Ka can do but pray for a crit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Findecano87 (Post 7975831)
Prankster Klefki with Will-O-Wisp would be good. Prankster Klefki would cripple MegaKhan with the Burned status.

Klefki doesn't get WoW. I once tried to luck out by T-Wave/Swagger but got 6-0'd lol

Superjub December 7th, 2013 5:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redingard (Post 7907159)
Mega Kangaskhan isn't OP. It has weaknesses, just like every other Pokemon. It's just about as OP a Mega Blastoise or Mega Houndoom-not at all. Maybe your Pokemon just aren't the legends you want 'em to be.

Idk, I think it's weird to compare Mega Kanga to Pokemon like Mega 'stoise and Mega 'doom. Maybe it's how I built my team, but I can easily deal with Mega Blastoise. I've not really seen Mega Houndoom but to take down Mega Kanga I usually have to sacrifice at least one of my Pokemon, usually my mega (Mega Charizatd Y.)

My (showdown) team is:
* Rhyperior
* Greninja
* Charizard Y
* Aegislash
* Scizor
* Espeon

大輔 December 7th, 2013 6:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CelticGuard (Post 7975863)
Sableye is also pretty good as a counter. If the Will-O-Wisp hits, there's pretty much nothing M-Ka can do but pray for a crit



Klefki doesn't get WoW. I once tried to luck out by T-Wave/Swagger but got 6-0'd lol

Speaking of Paralyze/Confusion... anyone else hate the move nuzzle? I mean since most electric pokemon are speedy and nimble, it's so annoying getting nuzzled then confused...ugh

Pinkie-Dawn December 7th, 2013 8:31 PM

Isn't Mega Kangaskhan currently being tested by Smogon before banning her to ubers? If she's proven so, then yes, she's OP. The only Pokémon I can think of who can counter her are Will-o-Wispers, Sableye, and Spiritomb.

XxCassiexX December 7th, 2013 8:50 PM

I've used MegaKangaskhan too now, and I find that I don't have any problem when i get will-o-wisped. As long as I got a Power Up Punch in I can still bring down most threats. Thunder Wave is a greater threat to Will-o-Wisp.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redingard (Post 7907170)
Considering how it's a Normal type, Mega Kangaskhan is extremely vulnerable. Fighting types are common, and their moves are nearly universal. I've already beaten dozens of these "OP MONSTROSITIES" with only my Lucario and Close Combat.

Lucario really only stands a chance if it has gone mega before Kangaskhan has. A max invested speed Mega Kangaskhan will ALWAYS outrun Lucario. And if Lucario goes mega on the same turn that the Earthquake is coming, it's lights out for Lucario because it doesn't get its Mega speed.

Aeroblast December 7th, 2013 9:16 PM

Mega Kangaskhan is OP, I think. Having Parental Bond means 1.5x attack coming off of 125 base attack, and with 6hp/252atk/252spe EV spread its attack is about equivalent to 523.5 without boosts, which is frightening. Not to mention that hitting twice mans it has ability to break sash, sturdy, and subs. Power Up Punch from Mega Kangaskhan is basically a free Swords dance boost while dealing damage.

That's not saying Kangaskhan is invincible, as there exists checks to Mega Kangaskhan, such as ghost types and certain fighting types that can outspeed Kangaskhan. However if M-Kangaskhan runs Sucker Punch, those 'mons could eat serious damage if prediction goes off.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire December 8th, 2013 12:23 AM

I don't think it's OP, but it sure is annoying to deal with...especially double fake out... then again I tend to use frail sweepers...

The Mighty Kamina December 8th, 2013 12:49 AM

I love my Mega-Khan, but I will say from experience it is far from OP. Close Combat from anything (not even a Fighting-type) puts it to bed rather quickly.

Lucifer December 8th, 2013 1:27 AM

Though I have not faced one yet since I still need 3 more badges it sounds to me like at least one mistake you made along with having an ill prepared team in general was not going in with a mega of your own. Particularly a fighting mega since Kangaskhan is normal.
Since that power-up-punch rules out Lucario and any rock type I'd say a good bet would be a Hawlucha. It's flying so it should be able to take the power-up-punch pretty well AND fighting to still give Kangaskhan that type disadvantage.

Though with the right defensive strategy and stats a Mega Lucario could probably take it out with no more than two Aura Blasts. Mine have thus far almost always been one-hit-KOs even when not mega or facing a foe that is weak to it. The key to that might be my lucario's (Sam) massive attack and special attack along with high speed. I'm guessing that with it's heavy weight a Kanghaskan wouldn't be too capable of high speed.

If anything it's the loop-holes provided by certain movesets that makes an opponent kind of a cheat.
For example the Galactic leader in Platinum had a team consisting of a Houndoom with a massive Thunder Fang that took out water types with one hit and a Honchicrow with a Ice move which took out both electric and rock(and had thunder in addition). It was a pain in the ass for me but like you I had not expected the kind of battle it was so had a poor team. A slight team alteration (adding Onix and Raichu) and training up about ten levels made it a snap.

KittenKoder December 8th, 2013 2:03 AM

I strongly disagree with the title of the thread. I don't like mega Kangas only because they're used too much sometimes, especially in the lower ranks of Battle Spot when the ratings were open. They're not that powerful, simple as that. I have several Kanga smashing strategies that work well.

halcyonic December 8th, 2013 2:18 AM

so not true, its just a pain in the arse to face :/

skarmory can take an unboosted return and phaze it out with whirlwind, resetting its pup boosts. so if you have megaluke or some other fighting type, go ahead and switch in after phazing it out, cause megakhan wont like adaptability close combat or any other stong fighting move eg high jump kick

Quote:

252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 568-672 (161.3 - 190.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 624-736 (177.2 - 209%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Hawlucha High Jump Kick vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 368-434 (104.5 - 123.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
pokemon such as gorgeist and trevenant can also cripple it with return, they only need to watch out for crunch, which is a rare thing on common megakhan sets

iTeruri December 8th, 2013 3:29 AM

Parental Bond doesn't work for attacks like Earthquake that hit multiple opponents, so it's not really broken.

Caiustheblack December 8th, 2013 5:56 AM

OR you can build a bulky pinsir with Moxie, leftovers, and ME FIRST as egg mov, followed by revenge.
If someone has mega kangaskhan it is almost granted that he will ABUSE power up punch, so you ll be able to stealpower-up punch for yourself, and 2hko it with ease.
Oh and any Choiche Scarf + Close combat combination, and he is plain dead :)

Melonfrog December 8th, 2013 6:55 AM

Prankster + Will-o-wisp should work, maybe one with levitate if possible too.

Nah December 8th, 2013 7:23 AM

Restricting yourself to only Gen 1 Pokémon is a bad idea (Golduck? Really?).

Fortunately for you, there is a Gen 1 Pokémon that is a fantastic counter to Mega Kangaskhan: Gengar.

-Gengar, Killer of Khans:
Nature: Timid
Item: Black Sludge/Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Sp.Attack, 252 Speed, 4 HP
Moves: Shadow Ball, Focus Blast, Will-o-Wisp, Substitute

Thanks to its Ghost type and Levitate, Gengar is immune to Earthquake, Power-up punch, and Normal attacks. Sucker Punch won't work when it switches in since Sucker punch requires that the opponent needs to use an attack move to work. Your opponent will probably think you're some idiot, using Gengar when their Mega Kangaskhan has Sucker Punch. That's where they're wrong. You first use Will-o-Wisp to burn the Khan; Gengar will be safe because Will-o-Wisp isn't an attacking move. On the next turn, you use Substitute to give Gengar a temporary shield. It is safe once again because Sucker Punch doesn't work when you use Substitute. Due to the last 2 turns of burn damage and the Substitute, Gengar will survive the Sucker Punch, and KO Mega Kangaskhan in one shot with Focus Blast (provided it doesn't miss).

So whaddya think of that? The nice part is that Gengar is a generally good Pokémon.

Outside of Gen 1, you could use Conkeldurr. It has pretty good HP and Defense, and great Attack. It resists Sucker Punch, and has the HP (especially if you put EVs into it) and Defense to stomach Mega-Khan's attacks, then smash it with a Fighting type attack, preferably Drain Punch (you have to breed it with a Meinshao to get the move).

halcyonic December 8th, 2013 8:59 AM

gengar will have to look out for crunch, which megakhan occasionally uses. gengar is relatively weak physically and crunch will definitely 2hko it if its burned.

but still i see your point :]

XxCassiexX December 8th, 2013 10:21 AM

A lot of you are simply assuming that everything is in your favor before Mega Kangaskhan comes out. If you have the wrong pokemon out and need to switch into it (but don't have a ghost type) it's pretty much over for at least a few pokemon. Ferrothorn and Skarmory are two of the only pokemon outside of uber than can reliably take a hit.

Anyone who's tried to say Mega Lucario is the option just doesn't know. If Mega Lucario wasn't already out and on the battle field, then it CANNOT defeat Mega Kangaskhan.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iTeruri (Post 7976514)
Parental Bond doesn't work for attacks like Earthquake that hit multiple opponents, so it's not really broken.

Idk why you think that. Earthquake does hit twice. Or maybe you're not talking about single battles? I don't know, I don't like double or triple battles.


Another thing. A lot of people seem to think that because something can be defeated it isn't Overpowered, but that's not how it works. lol.

Of course there are going to be a few teams that have the right pokemon that are direct counters. Of course it can be defeated. If it is Uber, however, there will be few or specific counters. I am expecting Kangaskhan to become uber. If it is not, I'm expecting every team to need to prepare counters specifically for it.

Nah December 8th, 2013 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XxCassiexX (Post 7976968)
A lot of you are simply assuming that everything is in your favor before Mega Kangaskhan comes out. If you have the wrong pokemon out and need to switch into it (but don't have a ghost type) it's pretty much over for at least a few pokemon. Ferrothorn and Skarmory are two of the only pokemon outside of uber than can reliably take a hit.

Well, yeah, not everything's gonna be in your favor in battle. That's a fact of life. Otherwise it'd get boring fast. It is impossible to counter everything in existence. For example, I got sweeped by a Belly Drum Azumarill once. Thing totally destroyed me. Is it invincible or overpowered? Hell no, I just didn't have something to counter it with. Some teams don't have anything to counter Scizor with. Some teams are powerless against MoxieMence. Your particular team just didn't have anything to counter Mega-Kangaskhan with (especially considering you're using at lot of frail Pokes and crap like Golduck). And some Pokemon just have few counters.

And...did you read my previous post? I gave you a good counter to Mega-Kangaskhan. The only thing that would be an issue for that set is, like dancing Kirlia Pirouette said, the very occasional Crunch.

Eelektross005 December 16th, 2013 7:14 PM

I'm not really sure if this would work but i tought of Aegislash
first turn Aegislash uses king's shield and Mega kanga's attack lowers, then
Mega Kanga attacks remember it's attack was lowered and that Aegislash has got lot of defense and then use a sacred sword

SnowpointQuincy December 16th, 2013 7:29 PM

I have OHKOed MegaKangaskhan with Hawlucha on many occasion.

The Mighty Kamina December 16th, 2013 7:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eelektross005 (Post 7991629)
I'm not really sure if this would work but i tought of Aegislash
first turn Aegislash uses king's shield and Mega kanga's attack lowers, then
Mega Kanga attacks remember it's attack was lowered and that Aegislash has got lot of defense and then use a sacred sword

King's Shield only decreases attack on contact move, and most 'Khans will be using Earthquake against Aegislash. KS will still protect it, but eventually, Aegislash will have to attack. It is much slower than Khan, and Shadow Sneak doesn't work on Khan, as it is a ghost move. It has to rely on Sacred Sword or Iron Head, at which point it would have to open itself up to take the super effective EQ.

Eelektross005 December 16th, 2013 7:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Mighty Kamina (Post 7991652)
King's Shield only decreases attack on contact move, and most 'Khans will be using Earthquake against Aegislash. KS will still protect it, but eventually, Aegislash will have to attack. It is much slower than Khan, and Shadow Sneak doesn't work on Khan, as it is a ghost move. It has to rely on Sacred Sword or Iron Head, at which point it would have to open itself up to take the super effective EQ.

Oh well then it could use the air balloon to make it immune to earthquake

XxCassiexX December 16th, 2013 8:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnowpointQuincy (Post 7991648)
I have OHKOed MegaKangaskhan with Hawlucha on many occasion.

Sucker punch doesn't take you out in one hit, or does the opponent just not think things through? Or are you using other status moves as well?

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Chance Without Zekrom (Post 7977031)
Well, yeah, not everything's gonna be in your favor in battle. That's a fact of life. Otherwise it'd get boring fast. It is impossible to counter everything in existence. For example, I got sweeped by a Belly Drum Azumarill once. Thing totally destroyed me. Is it invincible or overpowered? Hell no, I just didn't have something to counter it with. Some teams don't have anything to counter Scizor with. Some teams are powerless against MoxieMence. Your particular team just didn't have anything to counter Mega-Kangaskhan with (especially considering you're using at lot of frail Pokes and crap like Golduck). And some Pokemon just have few counters.

And...did you read my previous post? I gave you a good counter to Mega-Kangaskhan. The only thing that would be an issue for that set is, like dancing Kirlia Pirouette said, the very occasional Crunch.

Yeah, I read. Gengar's a nice option. I already have one but it's completely offensive. Adding some status move could be interesting.

Sandslash Fan December 17th, 2013 4:26 AM

Moves like Worry Seed, Entrainment, or Simple Beam can ruin any mega-evolved Pokemon's day.

Redingard December 17th, 2013 11:42 AM

To be frank, my Mega Charizard, normal Garchomp, as well as my Volcarona, have easily dealt with Mega Kangaskhans. To be fair, I have a support-Gliscor out on the field first to buff them, but I always have enough time to raise Attack/Speed enough to OHKO it with my Pokemon. I guess you could try to run a Gliscor with this set. After all, it does get immunity to Earthquake and resistance to Power-Up Punch.

Gliscor, Poison Heal, 252 EV HP, 252 EV Defense, Impish, Toxic Orb
Protect/Facade/Earthquake
Swords Dance
Rock Polish
Baton Pass

Good stallers, such as Dusknoir or Ferrothorn (which is sadly weak to the dreaded Power-Up Punch) can also be able to live for a while (moreso Dusknoir than Ferrothorn). MegaKhan is just like a Kaiju: strong, fast, and tough. Likewise, you need a Jaeger to bring it down effectively. There are plenty. Do be sure to take all the other tips into account as well. Even so, MegaKhan is still tough to bring down.

§1 December 17th, 2013 11:56 AM

if i can kill it before it gets in a power up punch, i might be able to win; otherwise it completely sweeps my team every time.

KittenKoder December 17th, 2013 2:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by §1 (Post 7992469)
if i can kill it before it gets in a power up punch, i might be able to win; otherwise it completely sweeps my team every time.

Then you need more status effects, sleep is one of the best, burning can seriously weaken a mega Kangas, then of course there's flatter.

§1 December 17th, 2013 3:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KittenKoder (Post 7992629)
Then you need more status effects, sleep is one of the best, burning can seriously weaken a mega Kangas, then of course there's flatter.


too conditional, if i switch in a ghost, scrappy lets power up punch hit it. if i switch in some other pokemon with a status move(like rotom-w), it also lets it get in power up punch, and then my pokemon dies.

i'd need something that can both take the hit, then outrun it to be able to pull that off.

Christopher December 17th, 2013 5:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by §1 (Post 7992735)
too conditional, if i switch in a ghost, scrappy lets power up punch hit it. if i switch in some other pokemon with a status move(like rotom-w), it also lets it get in power up punch, and then my pokemon dies.

i'd need something that can both take the hit, then outrun it to be able to pull that off.

Mega Kahn has Parental Bond so your ghosts are safe.

scprepschool December 17th, 2013 5:55 PM

Rocky helmet impish fur coat furfrou with toxic and protect and cotton guard.

Nah December 17th, 2013 6:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scprepschool (Post 7992944)
Rocky helmet impish fur coat furfrou with toxic and protect and cotton guard.

That could work, but only if Furfrou can set up in advance, and depends on if MegaKhan already has its Power-Up Punch boost. And Leftovers might be better than Rocky Helmet in this case

No boosts to either: 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Furfrou: 120-141 (33.8 - 39.8%) -- 24.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

MegaKhan has its boost: +2 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Furfrou: 238-282 (67.2 - 79.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Both have their boosts: +2 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. +3 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Furfrou: 94-112 (26.5 - 31.6%) -- 27.5% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

So MegaKhan easily takes down Furfrou if its already powered up, but has trouble defeating one that has already used Cotton Guard (especially with Protect, Leftovers, and if you use Cotton Guard twice). But you have to use Cotton Guard BEFORE it comes out, since Furfrou can't outspeed it and needs Defense investment in order to take MegaKhan on (so no Speed EVs).

The calcs were done with a set like this:
-Furfrou w/Leftovers
Nature: Impish
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 Hp, 252 Defense, 4 in whatever
Moves: Cotton Guard, Toxic, Protect, attack move of your choice

So I think we've established 3 possible answers to Mega Kangaskhan so far: Gengar, Gliscor, and Furfrou.

scprepschool December 17th, 2013 6:45 PM

The reason why I say rocky helmet, is because of parental bond. If the second attack doesn't also pick up rocky helmet damage then oh well. But the move set would be cotton guard, toxic, sucker punch, protect.

Tim09 December 17th, 2013 9:02 PM

My impish furfrou can wall most physical attackers but the problem is that it's weak set up fodder and just encourages people to switch into a special attacker to force it out. It's hard to actually use it in a team imo since it's weak and situational. Unless you can aromatherapy/heal bell a poison or burn makes it useless with how weak it is.

XxCassiexX December 17th, 2013 9:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KittenKoder (Post 7992629)
Then you need more status effects, sleep is one of the best, burning can seriously weaken a mega Kangas, then of course there's flatter.

Burning doesn't seem to do much in my experience. I find paralysis is better. A burned Kangaskhan is still incredibly powerful after it has powered up once or twice. Maybe if you have a highly defensive team the burn is more effective.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scprepschool (Post 7993007)
The reason why I say rocky helmet, is because of parental bond. If the second attack doesn't also pick up rocky helmet damage then oh well. But the move set would be cotton guard, toxic, sucker punch, protect.

Kangaskhan would use Earthquake to avoid this.

mokonasakura December 17th, 2013 10:55 PM

I've fought a few and I agree they are op. Now I'll admit I don't really like most of the fighting type pokemon out there so I don't use them however I do still run fighting moves. It tends not to be enough to take it down in one hit and after that his power up punch goes into unstoppable victory.

scprepschool December 18th, 2013 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XxCassiexX (Post 7993171)
Burning doesn't seem to do much in my experience. I find paralysis is better. A burned Kangaskhan is still incredibly powerful after it has powered up once or twice. Maybe if you have a highly defensive team the burn is more effective.



Kangaskhan would use Earthquake to avoid this.

Yeah. I haven't really had any problems with mega kangaskhan but I furfrou is the only tactical stalker I use so I posted it... but I really have taken out m kanga with a good bit of different pokemon. Any fast or bulky fighting type pretty much takes him.

§1 December 18th, 2013 1:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christopher (Post 7992894)
Mega Kahn has Parental Bond so your ghosts are safe.

not on switch-in it doesn't. the evolution doesn't occur until after the switch; forcing me to let a pokemon take the fall before i can switch to a ghost. (though, this might only be in pokemonshowdown)

Aeroblast December 18th, 2013 6:07 PM

Mega Kangaskhan is now banned from OU in showdown. Not surprised to say the very least.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/kangaskhanite-is-now-banned-to-ubers.3495351/

XxCassiexX December 18th, 2013 6:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 루기아 (Post 7994204)
Mega Kangaskhan is now banned from OU in showdown. Not surprised to say the very least.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/kangaskhanite-is-now-banned-to-ubers.3495351/

I fully agree with everything I read there. Haha!

DynamicD December 18th, 2013 7:12 PM

I may sound like a wuss, but I forfeit whenever I see Kangaskhan in a team, I just don't like playing against people with banned pokemon such as speed boost mega Blaziken.

XxCassiexX December 18th, 2013 9:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DynamicD (Post 7994300)
I may sound like a wuss, but I forfeit whenever I see Kangaskhan in a team, I just don't like playing against people with banned pokemon such as speed boost mega Blaziken.

For me it depends. I forfeit if there's no chance I can win. But if I think I can take on an Uber, I go for it until all hope is lost. When you pull it off, it makes for a good battle video. Granted, a lot of people with all uber teams tend to shut off the game if you start to win.

KittenKoder December 19th, 2013 6:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DynamicD (Post 7994300)
I may sound like a wuss, but I forfeit whenever I see Kangaskhan in a team, I just don't like playing against people with banned pokemon such as speed boost mega Blaziken.

Hate to break it to you, but Battle Spot does not follow Smogon rules, get use to it or go to Smogon for battles instead.

The only thing I hate about Kangas, it's just too popular, even now with all the counters for it people have. It's so boring to battle now I often play around with it to see what other random things will mess it up. My favorite is still hypnotize and gastro acid it, then just wail on it while the trainer tries too figure out what just happened.

XxCassiexX December 19th, 2013 9:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KittenKoder (Post 7994863)
Hate to break it to you, but Battle Spot does not follow Smogon rules, get use to it or go to Smogon for battles instead.

The only thing I hate about Kangas, it's just too popular, even now with all the counters for it people have. It's so boring to battle now I often play around with it to see what other random things will mess it up. My favorite is still hypnotize and gastro acid it, then just wail on it while the trainer tries too figure out what just happened.

Yeah, but like 70% of the people who use Battle Spot have enough integrity not to stack their teams with ubers. Likewise, most passerbyers and pretty much all of my friends have fair teams. All this usage of Mega Kangaskhan (especially among friends) I think will die down now that he's been smogonized as uber.

KittenKoder December 19th, 2013 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XxCassiexX (Post 7995087)
Yeah, but like 70% of the people who use Battle Spot have enough integrity not to stack their teams with ubers. Likewise, most passerbyers and pretty much all of my friends have fair teams. All this usage of Mega Kangaskhan (especially among friends) I think will die down now that he's been smogonized as uber.

Okay, let's itemize since I'm in a hurry.

1. "Ubers" is a tier, and it's part of Smogon, not officially part of Pokemon.
2. Everything can be countered .... see my signature.
3. Smogon runs through their own site, battles are arranged in IRC, Battle Spot is for those who wish to play the official Pokemon rules, two different rule sets.
4. If you can't take the heat, then switch kitchens.

wbovee1 December 19th, 2013 11:29 AM

Ive used my Lucario Close Combat on it with pretty decent success. If that doesnt take it out entirely I go for a sucker punch/night slash w/ super luck absol

XxCassiexX December 21st, 2013 1:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KittenKoder (Post 7995201)
Okay, let's itemize since I'm in a hurry.

1. "Ubers" is a tier, and it's part of Smogon, not officially part of Pokemon.
2. Everything can be countered .... see my signature.
3. Smogon runs through their own site, battles are arranged in IRC, Battle Spot is for those who wish to play the official Pokemon rules, two different rule sets.
4. If you can't take the heat, then switch kitchens.

I don't see how this relates though. The average semi-competitive battler knows how overpowered Kangaskhan is and thusly avoids using it (just as some people avoid using mewtwo and other pokemon like that). In addition, contrary to your point 4, enough people DON'T use Kangaskhan so that Battle Spot fights can still be good.

There are always going to be people obsessed with winning enough that their entire team will be stacked with Ubers... but that's just life. Still, there are enough people not doing that so that you can still have strategical fun even if you haven't built a team around countering specific ones.

I find that Battle Spot battling can be enjoyable for anyone. As far as passerbyers and friends, just keep your friends with reasonably fair teams and dump the rest (unless you're looking for high-tier/OPed battles). lol

Howmander December 21st, 2013 2:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 루기아 (Post 7994204)
Mega Kangaskhan is now banned from OU in showdown. Not surprised to say the very least.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/kangaskhanite-is-now-banned-to-ubers.3495351/

this is why I'm ranting about all these bans. Nobody even tries to figure out counters anymore, they just plug stats into a calculator and go "Oh, too powerful! ban!" it's ridiculous. I am waiting to actually fight some Mega kangaskhans to actually learn from the battles and learn how to counter, not just ban because it's too hard to beat. It seems (going by the moves the smogon link was mentioning) many of the ghost pokemon right off the bat would be immune to the fighting and normal type moves put on the Kangaskhan and the dark type would be an obvious problem for the ghost type, unless you throw in Spiritomb who is only weak to fairy moves. I mean, I'm hardly saying Spiritomb is the counter to mega kangaskhan, but my point is that counters should be tried and figured out rather than just basing everything on the stats and then dictating what should and shouldn't be used. I could get a fantastic winning streak if I dictated what pokemon could and couldn't be used and what moves they were and weren't allowed to be used, but I would rather lose 100 battles, learn from them and then win just a single battle based on what I learned and eventually came up with a strategy to beat them rather than tie their hands and achieve a hallow, meaningless victory because I can't handle this pokemon, that pokemon, this move set, that moveset and I just have to keep banning pokemon and moves until I can finally win. If a sentret with double team can wipe out my whole team, I would say that move isn't flawed, I would say my strategy is flawed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KittenKoder (Post 7995201)
Okay, let's itemize since I'm in a hurry.

1. "Ubers" is a tier, and it's part of Smogon, not officially part of Pokemon.
2. Everything can be countered .... see my signature.
3. Smogon runs through their own site, battles are arranged in IRC, Battle Spot is for those who wish to play the official Pokemon rules, two different rule sets.
4. If you can't take the heat, then switch kitchens.

#2 and #4 especially! Let's be best friends! :D

XxCassiexX December 21st, 2013 2:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howmander (Post 7998247)
this is why I'm ranting about all these bans. Nobody even tries to figure out counters anymore

I think what you're having difficulty looking at is the perspective of what it means when a SINGLE pokemon requires specific counters to deal with. When you have to use obscure counters to deal with a single pokemon, it changes the face of the game altogether. Devising counters is something that should be done DURING the match.

A well-balanced team should be able to stand a chance against another team provided the correct decisions are made.

Uber/Over-powered pokemon require you to create specific counters for it individually (and counters that may be useless against most else at that). That is why it is too powerful to be allowed in standard play (for smogon).

Outside of smogon, it creates situations where people must forfeit when they see the uber that they are not prepared for (you can't possibly prepare for every uber). If you create a team that can stand up to Kangakshan (without using an uber yourself) then you don't stand a chance against, say, Mewtwo or Kyogre. And god forbid your opponent's team is all ubers. lol

Inclusion of Ubers makes battles over before they begin, even for balanced teams. You either have the counter or you don't. This is why smogon has that system. It's not about figuring out counters, because creating counters for particular ubers would require knowing their team before the battle begins.

Getting the ubers out of standard play allows well-balanced teams to have good fights against each other. The strategical aspect then occurs IN the battle itself, rather than BEFORE the battle begins (in which case it's incredibly luck-based).

That being said, the best way to prepare for ALL ubers is to use unreliable gimmicks.

Nah December 21st, 2013 2:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howmander (Post 7998247)
this is why I'm ranting about all these bans. Nobody even tries to figure out counters anymore, they just plug stats into a calculator and go "Oh, too powerful! ban!" it's ridiculous. I am waiting to actually fight some Mega kangaskhans to actually learn from the battles and learn how to counter, not just ban because it's too hard to beat. It seems (going by the moves the smogon link was mentioning) many of the ghost pokemon right off the bat would be immune to the fighting and normal type moves put on the Kangaskhan and the dark type would be an obvious problem for the ghost type, unless you throw in Spiritomb who is only weak to fairy moves. I mean, I'm hardly saying Spiritomb is the counter to mega kangaskhan, but my point is that counters should be tried and figured out rather than just basing everything on the stats and then dictating what should and shouldn't be used. I could get a fantastic winning streak if I dictated what pokemon could and couldn't be used and what moves they were and weren't allowed to be used, but I would rather lose 100 battles, learn from them and then win just a single battle based on what I learned and eventually came up with a strategy to beat them rather than tie their hands and achieve a hallow, meaningless victory because I can't handle this pokemon, that pokemon, this move set, that moveset and I just have to keep banning pokemon and moves until I can finally win. If a sentret with double team can wipe out my whole team, I would say that move isn't flawed, I would say my strategy is flawed.

Mega Khan is banned (I've never liked the term "banned" in regards to a Pokemon; its just been moved to Ubers is all) because it takes almost no skill to use one in OU. People DO look for counters (I gave one in an earlier post), but there's only a few of them in OU. Ubers is an environment where things are much more even in regards to Mega Kangaskhan; it can't sweep everything in sight in Ubers. It's not like everything is banned anyway.

As for your insistance that evasion moves and abilities shouldn't be banned: no one likes losing because of pure luck, which is what evasion moves are. Not being able to be hit isn't skillful or clever, its just annoying.

Edit: Greninja'd. Cassie basically said what I said, but a bit better. XD

Howmander December 21st, 2013 2:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Chance Without Zekrom (Post 7998296)
Mega Khan is banned (I've never liked the term "banned" in regards to a Pokemon; its just been moved to Ubers is all) because it takes almost no skill to use one in OU. People DO look for counters (I gave one in an earlier post), but there's only a few of them in OU. Ubers is an environment where things are much more even in regards to Mega Kangaskhan; it can't sweep everything in sight in Ubers. It's not like everything is banned anyway.

As for your insistance that evasion moves and abilities shouldn't be banned: no one likes losing because of pure luck, which is what evasion moves are. Not being able to be hit isn't skillful or clever, its just annoying.

Edit: Greninja'd. Cassie basically said what I said, but a bit better. XD

And that just illustrated one of my points, people jsut go "Oh, that move is pure luck, I won't even try to figure out a way around it" when there's, what, 15 - 20 moves that will counter it? How is evasion luck based when all it takes to negate it is a large number of other moves? Heck, increasing your own accuracy helps negate the opponent raising of evasion. It's easy to blame it on luck, but when you can counter their move obviously it's not luck, it's called being prepared. Seriously, when a Pidgeot can negate double team (and yes, as of Gen 6 Keen eye also ignores boosts to evasion) how exactly can you say double team is luck based when there's SO many counters? Even if you didn't have any of the moves to counter, there's almost 30 pokemon that jsut by being in battle negate double team by having the Keen Eye ability. Again I say, when you can't counter a move that is SO easily countered it's really the strategy you're using that's to blame, not the move.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XxCassiexX (Post 7998293)
I think what you're having difficulty looking at is the perspective of what it means when a SINGLE pokemon requires specific counters to deal with. When you have to use obscure counters to deal with a single pokemon, it changes the face of the game altogether. Devising counters is something that should be done DURING the match.

A well-balanced team should be able to stand a chance against another team provided the correct decisions are made.

Uber/Over-powered pokemon require you to create specific counters for it individually (and counters that may be useless against most else at that). That is why it is too powerful to be allowed in standard play (for smogon).

Outside of smogon, it creates situations where people must forfeit when they see the uber that they are not prepared for (you can't possibly prepare for every uber). If you create a team that can stand up to Kangakshan (without using an uber yourself) then you don't stand a chance against, say, Mewtwo or Kyogre. And god forbid your opponent's team is all ubers. lol

Inclusion of Ubers makes battles over before they begin, even for balanced teams. You either have the counter or you don't. This is why smogon has that system. It's not about figuring out counters, because creating counters for particular ubers would require knowing their team before the battle begins.

Getting the ubers out of standard play allows well-balanced teams to have good fights against each other. The strategical aspect then occurs IN the battle itself, rather than BEFORE the battle begins (in which case it's incredibly luck-based).

What you literally just said is what I said in my rant, in that "anyone can get a good winning streak if they put arbitrary rules on what pokemon and moves can and can't be used in a battle" but I stand firm by my statement of "if a sentret with double team can wipe out your team, your strategy is at fault, not the move" Obviously no one can be prepared for every single pokemon out there, but you don't get ideas for inventive strategies and team building by dictating what can and can't be used, otherwise you get players that have no idea how to handle extremely easy to deal with situations like double team or sleep. Yeah, ofcourse if your team is nothing but pokemon with subsititute, earthquake, power up punch, or whatever high powered moves with items geared to specifically power up one aspect or one single move ofcourse you're going to have trouble with a gastly who knows hypnosis. If you have a balanced team and are prepared not only for a heavy hitting battle but also some strategice moves and teams, you'll be prepared for a huge variety of what the opponents could throw out at you rather than only using the pre approved smogon (or whatever) teams so you know "Oh, I'm playing this tier, so it will likely be this handful of pokemon so I'll just pick the counters in my team" rather than not having any idea what the opponent could be throwing out and you needing to build a team that can handle a big variety of things rather than a small focus.

Again, it's ridiculous that stupid things are being banned (Double team? TONS of counters! Speed boost Blaziken? If my pokemon is already slower than blaziken when the battle starts, there's absolutely no benefit to Speed Boost whatsoever. It doesn't get extra moves based on how fast it is, just throw out some powerful tank that can withstand a hit or two from it, smack it back AFTER it moves and it's dead. It doesn't matter how fast it is, it still only gets 1 move per turn) and like I said it's turning gamers who can't handle extremely simple moves that have MANY counters. It's not luck based at all, it's all up to your own preparedness.

XxCassiexX December 21st, 2013 3:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howmander (Post 7998316)
It's not luck based at all, it's all up to your own preparedness.

No.

If you run such gimmicks it is luck-based. Especially in 6v6 battles. When someone runs gimmicks like those, you can pretty much tell who should win the battle BEFORE the battle even begins just by looking at the teams.

Smogon's system makes teams typically even. With their tier system it makes it so that battles are typically decided by the strategies you use during the match making for more enjoyable battles.

Also your sentret you might win sometimes but just because you beat someone doesn't mean their team sucks or that they need to make a new team. lol. It just means they didn't have a team suited for your gimmick.

Nah December 21st, 2013 3:11 PM

Chill, Howmander, chill.

Yes, evasion moves can be dealt with. But at what cost? Using Pokemon and/or moves that have absolutely no use besides countering the evasion moves, which leaves you exposed to other threats. No one wants to use something to deal with just one thing.

Tell me something, Howmander. Would you honestly be ok with fighting a Kyogre or a Xerneas with a team of OU Pokemon (and you didn't know that they were on the opposing team)?

Are you familiar with the term "overcentralizing"? Some things are banned because they are OP, and so everyone would use them, which then causes the metagame to revolve around a certain few things, which kills creativity and critical thinking because you have to use and/or deal with the OP thing in order to not get your ass handed to you every single time.

And ya know what? If you don't like Smogon's rules, don't play in places using Smogon's rules. The Battle Spot, Battle Maison, and VGC follow different rules and ban lists.

There is one point I agree on with you, though: Speed Boost Blaziken doesn't need to be banned. It's not that OP.

iTeruri December 21st, 2013 4:10 PM

If Mega Kangaskhan is so powerful it'll be used a lot, put a counter on your team. If people with Mega Kangaskhan on their team know a lot of people have specific Mega Kangaskhan counters, they'll stop using her. That's the very definition of a metagame; the game outside of the game. Knowing what you might face and prepare for it.

Take the age old game of Rock, Paper, Scissors, for example. If you play the game against your friend and know he picks paper 7 out of 10 times, you can pick scissors to beat him 7 out of 10 times. That is, unless he starts to catch on and you'll have to outpredict eachother.

The Pokémon metagame is much more complex than the Rock, Paper, Scissors metagame, but you get my point. If you know 7 out of 10 people run a Mega Kangaskhan, why don't you put a counter on your team and win 7 out of 10 times?

On the other hand, Mega Kangaskhan can be pretty risky if people start to catch on. One has to evaluate her strength and the likelihood of running into a counter, thus making her worthless and losing you the battle.

In other words, the Pokémon you'll see on teams will shift as the metagame catches on and progresses, but not if it doesn't get the freedom to evolve.

Aeroblast December 21st, 2013 4:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iTeruri (Post 7998412)
If Mega Kangaskhan is so powerful it'll be used a lot, put a counter on your team. If people with Mega Kangaskhan on their team know a lot of people have specific Mega Kangaskhan counters, they'll stop using her. That's the very definition of a metagame; the game outside of the game. Knowing what you might face and prepare for it.

Take the age old game of Rock, Paper, Scissors, for example. If you play the game against your friend and know he picks paper 7 out of 10 times, you can pick scissors to beat him 7 out of 10 times. That is, unless he starts to catch on and you'll have to outpredict eachother.

The Pokémon metagame is much more complex than the Rock, Paper, Scissors metagame, but you get my point. If you know 7 out of 10 people run a Mega Kangaskhan, why don't you put a counter on your team and win 7 out of 10 times?

On the other hand, Mega Kangaskhan can be pretty risky if people start to catch on. One has to evaluate her strength and the likelihood of running into a counter, thus making her worthless and losing you the battle.

In other words, the Pokémon you'll see on teams will shift as the metagame catches on and progresses, but not if it doesn't get the freedom to evolve.

The thing is, when you need a dedicated counter for just one Pokemon, you know that one Pokemon is just too OP to stay in that tier. As such, it limits team building.

trainer swil December 22nd, 2013 2:01 AM

I don't like the 'limits team building' line. You could argue that entry hazards limit team building. You either need a rapid spinner, a defogger or to not use pokemon that are weak to rocks.
I think Mega Kangha was worth smogon banning to ubers but still disagree with that line.

KittenKoder December 22nd, 2013 3:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XxCassiexX (Post 7998207)
I don't see how this relates though. The average semi-competitive battler knows how overpowered Kangaskhan is and thusly avoids using it (just as some people avoid using mewtwo and other pokemon like that). In addition, contrary to your point 4, enough people DON'T use Kangaskhan so that Battle Spot fights can still be good.

There are always going to be people obsessed with winning enough that their entire team will be stacked with Ubers... but that's just life. Still, there are enough people not doing that so that you can still have strategical fun even if you haven't built a team around countering specific ones.

I find that Battle Spot battling can be enjoyable for anyone. As far as passerbyers and friends, just keep your friends with reasonably fair teams and dump the rest (unless you're looking for high-tier/OPed battles). lol

Cop-out answer. You just said "I agree with someone else so this is how everything should be regardless of what anyone else wants." Again, Smogon does NOT, in any way, control the game, Game Freak does. Also again, they are two different arenas, if you don't like one then stay out of it, it's that simple. The rest of us would rather figure out counters to the hard to beat tactics instead of just avoid them.

Really, I don't think the Smogon arena is inherently bad, just a different format is all, but the attitude of "what we think is what should be" is what has ruined a lot of wonderful things in society for so long it makes me despise Smogonites. This is almost 2014, both mob rule and elitism should be out the door, not elevated onto a soap box.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 루기아 (Post 7998435)
The thing is, when you need a dedicated counter for just one Pokemon, you know that one Pokemon is just too OP to stay in that tier. As such, it limits team building.

Throughout the thread there are many counters to it, none require any "dedicated counters for just one." Mega Kahn is becoming less popular in Battle Spot because .... everyone knows a counter to it now, there are so many ways to disable, wreck, and even brute force KO a mega Kahn now, and anyone worth battling knows at least one that does not require any "dedicated" lineups.

ramibas299 December 22nd, 2013 5:26 AM

Your team is overall pretty bad to be honest. It's not surprising that you lost.
Try some more walls and supports.

Phangy December 22nd, 2013 8:43 AM

i've tried using mega kangaskhan for a few battles and it's always been easily taken out by non fighting types.

Nah December 22nd, 2013 9:33 AM

So after yesterday I realized I did the dumbass thing of talking about Mega Kangaskhan and its Ubers status when 1) I've fought all of like 3 of 'em and 2)I've never used one before. So I went and raised one, then took it to the Battle Maison and Battle Spot to see what would happen. And after about a dozen battles between the 2, I've come to this conclusion now:

Mega Kangaskhan isn't all that OP. It's strong, yes, but not exactly OP.

I took note of a few things that prevented Mega Khan from totally destroying everything in my way:

-Sleep. Put it to sleep, Mega Khan's not a problem. (Then again, sleep is a problem for most pokes)

-Weezing. Yup, old Weezing shuts down Mega Khan. A physically defensive set with Will-o-Wisp, Black Sludge, and Haze can take it down. It has great physical bulk, resists Power Up Punch, and is immune to Earthquake via Levitate. Then you just burn Mega Khan and use Haze while you watch it squirm and slowly die as it tries to do something.

-Bulky Phazers. Self explainitory.

-Lead Breloom vs Lead Mega Kangaskhan. If your opponent has a Breloom and sees you have a Kangaskhan, they're pretty sure you're gonna lead with it, so they lead with Breloom. The irritating fighting mushroom thing can survive a Parental Bond Power Up Punch, then put Khan to sleep. Ok, that one's a bit specific, but still.

So, what I feel is this: Mega Kangaskhan isn't all that easy to counter (because few things like to switch into its attacks), but is easy to check and/or hinder and/or revenge kill (many pokemon can outspeed and hit it hard; most competent revenge killers can probably take it out).

But to be honest, I'm still fine with it being in Ubers. It's not like there isn't plenty of other good Pokemon to use in OU.

I think the rest of my posts still stand, though.

In a way, its too bad its not insanely ovepowered though. If it was, I could've FINALLY gotten a 50+ wins treak in the goddamned Battle Maison. Now I gotta think of yet another plan...

XxCassiexX December 22nd, 2013 9:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KittenKoder (Post 7999212)
Cop-out answer. You just said "I agree with someone else so this is how everything should be regardless of what anyone else wants." Again, Smogon does NOT, in any way, control the game, Game Freak does. Also again, they are two different arenas, if you don't like one then stay out of it, it's that simple. The rest of us would rather figure out counters to the hard to beat tactics instead of just avoid them.

Really, I don't think the Smogon arena is inherently bad, just a different format is all, but the attitude of "what we think is what should be" is what has ruined a lot of wonderful things in society for so long it makes me despise Smogonites. This is almost 2014, both mob rule and elitism should be out the door, not elevated onto a soap box.



Throughout the thread there are many counters to it, none require any "dedicated counters for just one." Mega Kahn is becoming less popular in Battle Spot because .... everyone knows a counter to it now, there are so many ways to disable, wreck, and even brute force KO a mega Kahn now, and anyone worth battling knows at least one that does not require any "dedicated" lineups.

I don't think I said people shouldn't use Kangaskhan because of smogon. I think I agreed that smogon has good reasoning behind calling it Uber and that most people who use it are either looking for easier wins or preparing for uber-level battles.

That being said, I don't play smogon, nor do I use their battle formats or clauses. I do, however, try not to use pokemon which are Uber because I find them to be broken in standard play.

People say Mega Kangaskhan is easy to beat or w/e too... but just because you beat one doesn't mean its easy to beat. You have to think, was the trainer you were fighting good? Was your team stacked with specific counters to him?

Idk, after I used him I've only lost maybe four battles and I've used him in like 30 (6v6). Sometimes he goes down, but usually its after taking out a large portion of my opponents teams. Another time my sweep went down to a Ferrothron with Rocky Helmet (took more than half my hp on the power-up punch). Although I still brought 2 pokemon (Ferrothorn and Talonflame) down too. My streak in 3v3 is worse, but not significantly so. Maybe 3-1.

You can say Lugia, Mewtwo, or Kangaskhan suck, but is it in competent hands? Does it have support from the rest of its team? Those are important questions to ask. If you can take Mega Kangaskhan down and the rest of the team sucks... then lol, sure its fair. Or if you fight one and the other person has zero skill in prediction, then sure.

But if two nearly equal strategists are fighting. That's when overpoweredness comes into play.

As for a good and OPed mega kangaskhan team should deal with getting rid of counters. Once they're gone sweeping any team should be easy. Most Kangaskhan counters are easily dealt with, particularly with good fire pokemon. Baton passing speed to Kangaskhan can destroy any fighting type counters except for Hawlucha. Otherwise carry a ghost.

However my Kangaskhan team isn't intended for dealing with counters, though it still wins relatively easily (it does have a baton passer though).

Again, I don't think I said anything about whether or not Kangaskhan should or shouldn't be used. I've only made an observation about the pokemon itself and implications about what using it means to the metagame.

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Chance Without Zekrom (Post 7999538)
So after yesterday I realized I did the dumbass thing of talking about Mega Kangaskhan and its Ubers status when 1) I've fought all of like 3 of 'em and 2)I've never used one before. So I went and raised one, then took it to the Battle Maison and Battle Spot to see what would happen. And after about a dozen battles between the 2, I've come to this conclusion now.

I'm thinking you didn't give it good team support and put everything on Khan alone, which a lot of people have specific counters for now because the metagame forces it, just as most people have Breloom counters now too. Grass pokemon can't be put to sleep, so use a grass/poison type to wall him and absorb fighting/grass moves.

Unfortunately Weezing isn't available yet.

If you're in 3v3 battles, don't always use him. Actually take a minute to analyze your opponent's team and plan accordingly. Chances are if you have Mega K on your team, they're going to choose the counters if they have them. That's what they put them on the team for most likely. Use the counters for their counters.

Oh right, battle maison. I did get that streak easily with Mega Kangs. Try using Mega Kangaskhan, Gengar, and Greninja with Kangaskhan as the lead. It should be super easy. Remember to switch to Gengar if facing a good fighting pokemon, and make sure Kangaskhan has scrappy for Mismagius.

Last thing: every pokemon, overpowered or not, needs team support.

Rynengan December 22nd, 2013 6:41 PM

Well I have faced Mega Kangaskhan a couple of times, like 7 or 8 times. I always beat him with my Talonflame, since Talonflame doesn't care about speed, with its Priority Brave Bird/Acrobatics should be enough if you are plus 2 or 4 from a Swordsdance. If you can Predict its Sucker Punch and go for a Swords Dance, then you can use Brave Bird on it to OHKO it, since Talonflame has priority and its much faster than Mega K, you'll go first. Also, Skarmory is a good counter to it, almost all of the competitive moves it uses are not very effective against skarmory, and that gives you time to set-up spikes or use Whirlwind to reset its pluses from Power-Up punch.

You can use other steel-type pokemon to counter it, or other priority moves to take him down. For me that Pokemon is not OP, but that's just my opinion.

Nah December 23rd, 2013 6:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XxCassiexX (Post 7999541)

Oh right, battle maison. I did get that streak easily with Mega Kangs. Try using Mega Kangaskhan, Gengar, and Greninja with Kangaskhan as the lead. It should be super easy. Remember to switch to Gengar if facing a good fighting pokemon, and make sure Kangaskhan has scrappy for Mismagius.

Last thing: every pokemon, overpowered or not, needs team support.

If something's overpowered it doesn't need support. If it does need support, its not overpowered. If something's OP, it can destroy everything by itself without much help from allies. At least, that's what I think of when I hear "overpowered".

But thanks for the Battle Maison tip:). If my current team (Cloyster, Mega Blaziken, Slyveon) doesn't work out for some reason (30 wins at the moment, let's see if I can keep it up), I'll try teaming Mega Khan with Gengar and Greninja.

Trainer Evan December 25th, 2013 6:30 PM

I've slain Mega Kangaskhans with nothing but a Furfrou. A properly set up Furfrou can tank almost everything Mega Kangaskhan can dish out, and whittle down it's health, slowly but surely.

Psychez January 15th, 2014 7:35 AM

I've taken Mega Khan down too, but I still think it's overpowered. Just because it's possible to take it down, doesn't mean it isn't overpowered. Legendaries can be taken down, but they are still considered overpowered.

For example, the other day I lost in a ratings battle to one. It was against my Sableye, he fakes out (scrappy) as I will o wisp, effectively knocking his attack down to -2. I'm pretty confident he can't do all that much to me, and I still have my mega Gyarados left. He goes for the power up punch, it does next to nothing of course, but now he's at -1, I decide to go for a foul play, because I don't want him setting up more power up punches, and if that doesn't kill, I can probably stall him out with recover and burn damage, but nope, he goes for façade which knocks me out.

Still, he's at -1, I'm thinking it'll be fine once Gyarados comes in and gets the intimidate. Gyarados comes in and now he's at -2 again, we both go Mega- I know façade will hurt, but Mega Gyarados is bulky and he's at -2, so my plan was to go for a dragon dance to outspeed, then finish him off with waterfall... Nope, parental bond façade is a One hit KO, even though it's at -2 and can only hit me for neutral damage, and I've got base 95hp and base 109 defence :O

To me, that is overpowered when something can knock out a very bulky pokemon when it's at -2 attack, with a neutral move, and it wasn't even a crit. I checked the damage calcs and apparently, adamant mega Khan façade hits Mega Gyarados for between 103% and 121% damage when it is burned :S So yeah, now that façade, mega khan is a thing, you can't even rely on phasing it anymore. It's not unstoppable, there are pokes to counter it, but the sheer number of things it is able to take out is staggering, even things you'd think would be able to go toe to tow with it, stand no chance. It's not like I was not going to burn it either, since it's much more common set carries return and without a burn, that would have been a 2 hit KO on my Mega Gyarados, even after the intimidate drop, and since it outspeeds, it STILL would have won.

Apparently, it seems façade ignores the attack drop from burn this gen, if so that certainly explains why it was able to ohko me :(


I have to say, I think that is pretty stupid. I think the attack drop should still happen on façade, unless the pokemon has an ability like guts.

XxCassiexX January 30th, 2014 1:08 PM

It seems like all the hype is over now. I don't really see anyone using Mega Kangaskhan anymore, but that could either be because, as was said earlier, so many people started running counters for it, or because people decided they didn't enjoy running it.. I don't really see Mega Mawile or Mega Blaziken around as much either anymore. Idk if this is the same for everyone, but interesting nonetheless!

They were on like every team at first!

Flushed January 30th, 2014 1:12 PM

I haven't played much Battle Spot anymore, but I hopped on yesterday and the first couple games I played they were running Mega-Kang. I myself try to follow the Smogon tiers, but I realize that they're not official and you're free to use whatever. Regardless, I run pretty much mega offense and was crushed haha. Incidentally I do use Mega Mawile though.

thomas0comer January 31st, 2014 9:20 PM

Kangashkhan is amazingly powerful, and I'd say overpowered, but certainly not uncounterable. Lucario or Skarmory is your best bet against it. But if that thing gets to power up punch three times? Well you can just give up because just about everything in the game will die to it at that point if they can't get a hit off first. But hey. This is why people make tiers- to allow people to play without having to worry about handling these super powerful things.

Cerberus87 January 31st, 2014 9:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Chance Without Zekrom (Post 7998350)
Yes, evasion moves can be dealt with. But at what cost? Using Pokemon and/or moves that have absolutely no use besides countering the evasion moves, which leaves you exposed to other threats. No one wants to use something to deal with just one thing.

That's not a good argument at all. Most teams have a Stealth Rock user, and to counter it you need a Pokémon with Rapid Spin (and ONLY Rapid Spin, I hear Defog was improved though), which is a weak 20 BP Normal-type move that has no use apart from clearing rocks and spikes and can be stopped by Ghost Pokémon, which are immune to it. As far as I know, Smogon hasn't banned Stealth Rock yet, despite having stated in their analysis numerous times that Stealth Rock knocks certain Pokémon down one or two tiers by itself, which is IMO unfair.

Meanwhile, there are various ways of dealing with evasion. Moves that never miss, as well as Foresight/Odor Sleuth/Miracle Eye (which completely negate evasion), the No Guard ability, Haze... It's annoying to deal with, sure, but if you have the right tools to fight it, it's a pathetic strategy.

I also don't understand why OHKO moves are banned as well. Horn Drill has 30% accuracy. The chance of knocking out all of the Pokémon in the opposing team with it is ridiculously small. It's not a reliable strategy by a long shot and won't win you any tournaments. But it's banned because it's "luck-based". I understand luck shouldn't be a factor in any sport, but Pokémon isn't a sport. It's an RPG. Rolls of the dice and all that.

There will always be stronger Pokémon than others. What Smogon does is modifying the amount of Pokémon considered "strong" for the sake of "variety". And it certainly is limiting, because they claim you can use your favorites, but that's not true. I may use them in separate tiers, but what if I want to use them together? I might want to use Blaziken, Honchkrow and Scolipede together (just an example with no competitive basis), but I can't because Blaziken is banned and Honchkrow is too strong for RU.

Link119 February 1st, 2014 1:05 AM

Mega-Kangaskhan was banned in the metagames that I play...For good reason too...lol...It's ability is something that belongs on a pokemon with below average stats or more weaknesses...The "four move syndrome" it has isn't holding it back...

Nah February 1st, 2014 5:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8071175)
That's not a good argument at all. Most teams have a Stealth Rock user, and to counter it you need a Pokémon with Rapid Spin (and ONLY Rapid Spin, I hear Defog was improved though), which is a weak 20 BP Normal-type move that has no use apart from clearing rocks and spikes and can be stopped by Ghost Pokémon, which are immune to it. As far as I know, Smogon hasn't banned Stealth Rock yet, despite having stated in their analysis numerous times that Stealth Rock knocks certain Pokémon down one or two tiers by itself, which is IMO unfair.

I have to agree with you on the Stealth Rocks thing. It'd be nice if it was banned. Or at least, if Game Freak would change so it does less damage on switching in (I've always thought that losing half your HP for pokes with a 4x Rock weakness was a bit much). Why nothing has happened, IDK.

Quote:

Meanwhile, there are various ways of dealing with evasion. Moves that never miss, as well as Foresight/Odor Sleuth/Miracle Eye (which completely negate evasion), the No Guard ability, Haze... It's annoying to deal with, sure, but if you have the right tools to fight it, it's a pathetic strategy.
Like I said before, those moves have zero use outside of hitting evasive Pokemon. Most Pokemon have a hard enough time choosing movesets, and adding that doesn't help. More importantly, if evasion moves were not banned, I bet 70% of all teams would run evasion moves. It'd be like last gen where at least half of all OU teams were rain teams, and that was annoying and boring. You wanna abuse accuracy tactics? Use Sand Attack and **** like that, those aren't banned.

Quote:

I also don't understand why OHKO moves are banned as well. Horn Drill has 30% accuracy. The chance of knocking out all of the Pokémon in the opposing team with it is ridiculously small. It's not a reliable strategy by a long shot and won't win you any tournaments. But it's banned because it's "luck-based". I understand luck shouldn't be a factor in any sport, but Pokémon isn't a sport. It's an RPG. Rolls of the dice and all that.
Because of stuff like Mind Reader and accuracy boosting items/moves/abilities. But if the accuracy is so bad, why bother using them anyway? And no one likes it when something with such a low chance of happening happens. There's enough luck based stuff in Pokemon already.

Quote:

There will always be stronger Pokémon than others. What Smogon does is modifying the amount of Pokémon considered "strong" for the sake of "variety". And it certainly is limiting, because they claim you can use your favorites, but that's not true. I may use them in separate tiers, but what if I want to use them together? I might want to use Blaziken, Honchkrow and Scolipede together (just an example with no competitive basis), but I can't because Blaziken is banned and Honchkrow is too strong for RU.
Unfortunately, not all Pokemon are created equal, so there has to be tiers. Would you really wanna fight off a bunch of Ubers with a bunch of NU pokes? Because if there weren't tiers, I assure you that most people would just use all Ubers, because most people are solely interested in winning. If tiering bothers you, play on Battle Spot or in the VGC, where there are no tiers.

XxCassiexX February 1st, 2014 4:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8071175)
There will always be stronger Pokémon than others. What Smogon does is modifying the amount of Pokémon considered "strong" for the sake of "variety". And it certainly is limiting, because they claim you can use your favorites, but that's not true. I may use them in separate tiers, but what if I want to use them together? I might want to use Blaziken, Honchkrow and Scolipede together (just an example with no competitive basis), but I can't because Blaziken is banned and Honchkrow is too strong for RU.

Don't forget though, you can always play lower tier pokemon in higher tiers. Just use your RUs along with Blaziken in Ubers.

SnowpointQuincy February 1st, 2014 4:16 PM

Tiers exists because of Talonflame. TF renders all pokemon with a weakness to flying UNUSEABLE.

Victreebell under the sun is frail, but has a chance to be faster than TF and KO TF with a Sludge Bomb...NOPE! TF always gets to go first and OHKO all Grass, Fighting Pokemon in the game.

Mega-Kangaskhan is also bad, but at least you can be faster than him. A Hi Jump Kick to the face will do it.

Xerneas_X February 1st, 2014 4:17 PM

I wonder why this old post was brought back up.. Mega Kangastan is so easily defeated.. I have absolutely zero problems with it.. Xatu can totally disable it's ability to double hit by taking away it's Parental Ability, Mewtwo can outspeed it and Aura Sphere 1 hit-ko it, Talonflame can out priority/speed it with acrobatics to drop it's health considerably, Xerneas can one-shot it if geomancy'd, otherwise hurt it heavily if not, Zekrom can survive a dual return then proceed to one-shot it with an ultra powerful fusion bolt, Virizion can outspeed and one-shot it with sacred sword, etc.. there's just so many pokemon who can take out Kangastan.. but the best is Xatu in my opinion, my opponents never think that it's a threat, so it usually goes ignored while they focus their efforts on hitting my other Pokemon but then SURPRISE!!! it makes Kangastan useless by taking away it's ability completely, that afterwards, I ignore it and let it live for a round or two while I refocus my efforts on taking out the other Pokemon in double/triple battles as i know a single return, power-up punch, etc, won't do much damage or kill any of my Pokemon...

XxCassiexX February 1st, 2014 4:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sorrowdemonica (Post 8072407)
I wonder why this old post was brought back up.. Mega Kangastan is so easily defeated.. I have absolutely zero problems with it.. Xatu can totally disable it's ability to double hit by taking away it's Parental Ability, Mewtwo can outspeed it and Aura Sphere 1 hit-ko it, Talonflame can out priority/speed it with acrobatics to drop it's health considerably, Xerneas can one-shot it if geomancy'd, otherwise hurt it heavily if not, Zekrom can survive a dual return then proceed to one-shot it with an ultra powerful fusion bolt, Virizion can outspeed and one-shot it with sacred sword, etc.. there's just so many pokemon who can take out Kangastan.. but the best is Xatu in my opinion, my opponents never think that it's a threat, so it usually goes ignored while they focus their efforts on hitting my other Pokemon but then SURPRISE!!! it makes Kangastan useless by taking away it's ability completely, that afterwards, I ignore it and let it live for a round or two while I refocus my efforts on taking out the other Pokemon in double/triple battles as i know a single return, power-up punch, etc, won't do much damage or kill any of my Pokemon...

Most of the pokemon you mentioned are Uber pokemon. Most uber pokemon are pretty much OPed as well. But I think we have discussed the most relevant counters to Mega Kangaskhan by now such as Skarmory/Weezing, for example. If Xatu works, I'd count it too.

Xerneas_X February 1st, 2014 4:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XxCassiexX (Post 8072429)
Most of the pokemon you mentioned are Uber pokemon. Most uber pokemon are pretty much OPed as well. But I think we have discussed the most relevant counters to Mega Kangaskhan by now such as Skarmory/Weezing, for example. If Xatu works, I'd count it too.

Yes, Simple Beam is your best friend against Mega Kangastan... Also works on other pokemon with annoying abilities.. such as taking away a pokemon's Prankster ability, Levitate (make them vulnerable to ground moves), gale wings, reverse Shell Smash for Shuckle causing it to backfire (pretty much kill it in 1 shot as you made it supremely weak with +4 drop in defenses), etc., Also it has good uses for your own team as it doubles stat changes.. i.e. I shoot Xerneas with it and it causes Xerneas' Geomancy to turn into +4 stat increases instead of +2 (can out speed a team behind tailwind and oneshot nearly everything, including resisting.

Also Xatu's magic bounce ability is epic.. cause thunderwave, toxic, spikes, sleep, darkvoid, etc to backfire right back at the user.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 8:07 AM.


Like our Facebook Page Follow us on Twitter © 2002 - 2018 The PokéCommunity™, pokecommunity.com.
Pokémon characters and images belong to The Pokémon Company International and Nintendo. This website is in no way affiliated with or endorsed by Nintendo, Creatures, GAMEFREAK, The Pokémon Company or The Pokémon Company International. We just love Pokémon.
All forum styles, their images (unless noted otherwise) and site designs are © 2002 - 2016 The PokéCommunity / PokéCommunity.com.
PokéCommunity™ is a trademark of The PokéCommunity. All rights reserved. Sponsor advertisements do not imply our endorsement of that product or service. User generated content remains the property of its creator.

Acknowledgements
Use of PokéCommunity Assets
vB Optimise by DragonByte Technologies Ltd © 2023.