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It is the best counter for Mega Kangaskhan, Mega Mawile, Mega Scizor, Physical Mega Lucario, Physical Metagross and any other physical pokemon that can be burned. If you decide to run weezing, you will not regret it this generation. |
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Either way, even if they didn't send out their Kangastan first, since I send out Xatu First, you'll at least get a Reflect up that last for 8 rounds with Xatu-light clay (or use U-Turn to save it for Kangastan), which should hopefully help your team survive normal Mega Kangastan when you can draw it out before the reflect goes down. |
return is all i need to kill all
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mega kangashkan is a very powerful poke that was rightfully banned. Aegislash, mega aggron, mega gengar and almost every other mega had problem battling it. In my opinion it was even more deadlier than mega gengar which in my opinion did not need to get banned.
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To be honest, my Jolly Infernape with Close Combat has OHKO'd every MegaKhan it sees with Life Orb and Close Combat. Pretty simple. :I
Also, Gliscor makes a very good wall (forget if I said that already). Immunity to Earthquake, resistance to Power-Up Punch, renders Sucker Punch useless, takes little damage from Fake Out...the only move my Gliscor has a problem with is Return. MegaKhan is surprisingly easy to take out. Heck, even my Scrafty, if it has already gotten a boost beforehand, can take care of MegaKhan. Situational, of course, but it can. |
I have a Mismagius that stops it dead in its tracks. Power-Up Punch and Comet Punch are an epic fail against Mismagius, and I just Spite its Sucker Punches until it's got nothing.
That said though, any Pokemon with so few and such specific counters is definitely overpowered. It's no fun having to keep a set on your team at all times, just to make sure that you stand a chance against one specific Pokemon. |
My defensive Miltank and Vaporean were able to fence off their powering-up moves.
Have won against them twice or thrice now - By attacking with Mega Absol's Superpower. So nope, I don't feel they were very overpowered imo. |
I really hate MegaKhan a lot in metagame because you really have to work it to encounter it. Especially if it gets the double boost from Power Up Punch you can throw your hopes away in that single moment. It totally dominates in Single Battles unless you can outspeed it and cut it's attack or speed somehow. :P In Triples it's just average and for example Huge Power Azumarill can easily OHKO it with Rough Play. Plus if you have Pokémon with good speed stats they can easily wipe it on the first turn but still. It's annoying to have to run something special to encounter one Pokémon just in case your opponent happens to have it.
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This thread is still going?
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i just fought a mega kangaskhan with my lucario and that thing out sped me and K.O. him on the first hit. It was absolutely ridiculous, not to mention he has earthquake and that's a one hit K.O too. Every single pokemon i threw out got K.O.ed in one hit, it out sped them all which if you're going to make it hit twice can you not have it be incredibly fast. My lucario and greninja are extremely fast but it out sped them too. I agree that it's too over powered to the point where it'd give a lot of legendaries a run for their money and well it's a kangaskhan it's kinda humiliating to be beat by one.
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Mega-Kanghaskan might be the most OP Pokemon ive ever come across. Every move he uses can potentially KO any of your Pokemon in one hit, Power-Up punches gives him an additional insane Attack boost, Sucker Punch doesnt even give you the chance to attack, and thanks to Parental Bond you can kiss goodbye to sturdy and focus sash. Also, if you ever face one with rock slide, get ready for that double chance of flinching! The only counter/check that can somewhat take him on is Mandibuzz, at not even that effectively...
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It might be deceptively obvious, but wouldn't a counter to Mega Kangaskhan be another Mega Kangaskhan?
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Back to topic: You should not try to counter Mega Kangaskhan because almost nothing really can. Skarmory is the best bet but cleanly loses against support Kangaskhan's Seismic Toss which does 200 damage. Max-Def Sableye and Cofagrigus is the closest thing you have but you still have to pray that WoW connects, not speaking of the opponent getting a free Heatran switch-in. Anyway, being uncounterable is not the reason people deem something overpowered. 5th gen Salamence for example was almost uncounterable but there were plenty of ways to check it because it lacks priority and has common weaknesses. Mega-Kanga can break down almost any wall that is slower than base 100 and still is capable to check everything not resistant to Sucker Punch. The list of offensive checks is basically Terrakion, Infernape, Mega-Lucario (assuming you can get the Mega off earlier than her). In Singles, the impact on teambuilding is pretty much like 4th gen Garchomp. |
In my opinion he is strong, But not overpowerd!
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Just use a Mega Lucario and you'll be fine :)
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Has anyone gone to the PGL website on the Battle Rating section? I just saw that it actually tells you the top 10 pokemon used to defeat a given pokemon (That is actually a REALLY good site feature to have!) and apparently (as I thought!) Mega Kangaskhan is the #1 pokemon used to defeat Mega Kangaskhan, but the rest are (Or mega evos of, where applicable I guess) Garchomp, Aegislash, Talonflame, Mawile (Surprised me!), Azumarill, Gengar, Charizard, Lucario or Rotom (wash), so that' was pretty enlightening
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The list of Pokemon you have mentioned is not enlightening at all because you pretty much have summed up the whole VGC metagame. It is centralized to the point that you can almost guarantee that a viable opposing team will have at least three of them. Mawile did not surprise us a lot because Doubles Kangaskhan leave out Earthquake for Fake Out. |
I used to think Mega Kangaskhan was overpowered, but I have discovered a lot of counters.
Thundurus OHKOs it with Focus Blast and can easily survive a Sucker Punch (and can switch into Earthquake); Mega Aggron can OHKO with Superpower (although irritatingly it often leaves it with a few HP) and can survive two Earthquakes with defensive investment; Doublade with Eviolite can 2HKO with Sacred Sword and sometimes survives two Earthquakes (and can switch into Power-Up Punch and Return); Ditto with Imposter and Choice Scarf can beat it by spamming Sucker Punch (but can't be switched into it). Thundurus is my most reliable counter. |
Does PC have a different definition of check and counter? That's no joke, we need to know else we accidentally ignite a flame war.
In our book, a counter is at full health and can hypothetically switch into the target, also at full health, and beat it. A check can beat the target if given a free switch in. Thundurus is not a counter. A 252 Jolly Return from Kangaskhan is a clean OHKO, Thundurus cannot safely switch in. He is no check either; while it is faster, Focus Blast is still only a 2HKO while Kangaskhan one-shot him without any boosts. Also, we are talking about Focus Miss, but that's irrelevant. 252 SpA Thundurus Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Kangaskhan: 256-302 (72.9 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Thundurus: 325-384 (108.3 - 128%) -- guaranteed OHKO Mega Aggron fares a bit better, which is not saying much. As you have said, Superpower often fails to OHKO Kanga but you also said Aggron would be able to survive two Earthquakes, ignoring the defense drops from Superpower. Kangaskhan however can setup PuP in front of it and OHKO it at -1. Aggron is neither a counter nor a check. 252+ Atk Mega Aggron Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 304-358 (86.6 - 101.9%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO +2 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Earthquake vs. -1 252 HP / 0 Def Filter Mega Aggron: 342-402 (99.4 - 116.8%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO (clean OHKO with PuP beforehand) Doublade is definitely not a counter. In the best case it can take two hits, one from switching in, another one while it fails to OHKO. However, is it a check? It is, although it requires maximum Atk with an Impish nature and that is assuming that Kanga is neither Adamant nor bulky attacking. 252 Atk Doublade Sacred Sword vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 176-208 (50 - 59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Eviolite Doublade: 138-165 (42.8 - 51.2%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO Ditto never counters anything. Worse, you forgot to account for its low HP; it is 2HKOed by everything in Kanga's standard movepool, especially PuP. When you can bring in Ditto safely, never use Sucker Punch because Kanga can set up two PuPs in front of Ditto while your Sucker Punch fails to 2HKO. 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan (Ditto) Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 127-151 (36 - 42.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Power-Up Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan (Ditto): 129-153 (43 - 51%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO (clean 2HKO with the boosts) As said, Sableye, Cofagrigus and SL Gourgeist are Kanga counters and none of them is reliable. |
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Secondly, I forgot to mention Thundurus has Life Orb, which guarantees an OHKO on a Mega Kanga with an offensive build. Quote:
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Filter Mega Aggron: 67-81 (37.8 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO [even better than I remembered] Power-Up Punch + Earthquake is possible if Superpower fails to KO, which I guess is what you were trying to say. In that case Iron Head followed by Superpower is perhaps a more reliable strategy. I'll have to try that out. Quote:
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Firstly, it is best to bring it in after Mega Kanga has used Power-Up Punch, because it copies the boosts. In this case, Return will OHKO the opponent while Sucker Punch will still only 2HKO you. If Power-Up Punch has not been used, then that's when you spam Sucker Punch. I have to admit, it requires some luck though, as it relies on landing a crit on one of your four hits. This isn't as crazy as it sounds though, since the chance of that is 1 - 0.9375^4 = 0.22752380371, i.e. 22.75%. Ditto was more of an afterthought than a serious proposal for a counter, though. |
So out of curiousity, why is Return seemingly the default normal type move on everything? It only has a max power of 102. Wouldn't there be many other types of normal moves that are way better? (I'm asking because I'm debating on what to do with mine. I was briefly thinking of Facade which would have a max power of 210 vs the 153 Return would have (and if Mega Evolved for Kangaskhan, 315 vs 229) OBVIOUSLY it would depend on if they got a status ailment or not, and that was pretty much just the one example I was thinking of, but why is Return pretty much the only normal move anyone ever seems to suggest for anything? It's not THAT powerful (it's not weak, but there are stronger moves and when you trade the damage goes down to the default level anyway, so any time you trade that pokemon, you have to build up it's friend ship again in order to use that move, whereas any other move is at full power as soon as you get the pokemon)
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However, we find your definition lax in a another way. Defining checks and counter should happen in a closed enviroment and under the assumption of every possible decision the opponent can make (accuracy is a decision, crits are not unless crit stage 3). When you start applying strategy to that you start to falsify the results by assuming that the opponent will always act as predicted - in which case you don't have even ground anymore. For example, the opponent will never spam PuP when they see Ditto in the Team Preview, that's why we will overlook that example. Quote:
Combined with the shaky accuracy you roughly have a chance of 48.16% to beat offensive Kangaskhan. Thundurus cannot be Modest because it would lose the speed check in that case. A hypothetical battle at full health between those two is basically a coin toss, just that Kanga wins on edge, too. From that we deduce that you are actually using Thundurus Therian. 252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus-T Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Kangaskhan: 367-434 (104.5 - 123.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO It is still no counter because it will lose when it switches in PuP (+ Sucker Punch) or Return but at least it can check (Focus Miss still sucks, though). Quote:
In that order: Kanga uses PuP Aggron uses Superpower (fails 87,5% of the times), Defense drop +2 Kanga uses Earthquake on -1 Aggron - KO However, what you can do is Iron Head, then Superpower - in that order only. Quote:
Facade is fine when it is activated, but unless is is you are stuck with a rather unimpressive base 70 move (imagine STAB 5th gen Hidden Power). Because Kangaskhan has to hold her stone in order to perform, this move is simply too unreliable. You either have to give up your Return or one of the coverage options which is unacceptable. Amusingly, you haven't mentioned Double-Edge. It is a base 120 move with recoil, which will definitely ensure that you won't kill more than two targets. +2 Return is already strong enough. It has slightly more immediate power but is unviable for setup sweeping. Quote:
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It's because Return is by far the most reliable Normal attack of decent power to use. Most others are too weak or have adverse side effects. 102 is not bad at all. People use Flamethrower all the time, and that has a base power of 90. STAB Return is 153 bp. The issue with Façade is that its rather weak without a status effect, and most Pokémon don't want to be statused (for example, a burn would basically nullify the boost Façade gets because the Pokémon's Attack gets cut). It works best on things with Guts or Quick Feet, like Swellow or Ursaring. Though why Return is mentioned more than Frustration, I'm not sure. |
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Derp, there goes my whole post.
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Thinking of that, maybe we should write an article about this concept when we have time. Sound funs Quote:
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Objectively, this scenario is still stacked against Thundurus and ghost (and SR) because they are reliant on two Pokemon in order to check only one. A more reliable check would be Terrakion who can survive a +2 Sucker Punch with half of its HP left (while nagging two Justify boosts) and cleanly OHKO Kanga with Close Combat. |
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i dont understand how the hell that thing isnt uber yet.
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I have evidence to support the claim that it is overpowered:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/anythinggoes-286874562 http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/anythinggoes-286876133 http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/anythinggoes-286885331 http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/anythinggoes-286886394 http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/anythinggoes-286887945 http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/anythinggoes-286889325 P.S: All of these were within the span of a half-hour. |
I hate facing Mega Kanga...
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Let's not try to revive year-old threads, everyone. Instead, wouldn't it be better if we had recreated?
Locked. |
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