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-   -   Group PokeCommunity's Competitive Battling Community (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=313392)

halcyonic November 21st, 2013 8:09 AM

PokeCommunity's Competitive Battling Community
 



PokeCommunity's
Competitive Battling Community




Introduction

Welcome to the PokeCommunity's Competitive Battling Community, a place for competitive battlers to gather and chill. What are we to discuss? Well, we could discuss on metagames, playstyles, popular Pokemon... the possibilities are endless.

The Battle Center itself might be a huge place for competitive battlers to get together, but here, it's different. Think about it, a place where the topic is something everyone will discuss on, wouldn't that be fun? We might even have special tournaments from time to time, or some other special activities.

So if you love competitive battling, and your fellow competitive battlers, this is the perfect place for you. Sign up now!



Rules

- All general PokeCommunity rules and Battle Center guidelines apply.
- Please use the registration form when registering. Generic sign up posts will be ignored.
- Please stick to the topic(s) at all times. Off topic posts (unless stated otherwise) will be reported.
- Do not spam or flame the club. Action will be taken if you do.
- Do not harass any club member. Please report to a moderator if you do get harassed.
- Take part, discuss and have fun in this club.



Registration

- Username: (required)
- Answer to current topic: (required)
- Experience in competitive battling: (required)
- Favourite Pokemon(s): (optional, mega pokemon are allowed, 8 pokemon allowed at maximum)
- Preferred playstyle/core: (optional)
- Extra: (optional)

Favourite Pokemon(s) can come from any tier e.g. Mewtwo (Ubers) and Lucario (Overused)



Members
[supporter]pirouette http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/303-m.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/658.png[/supporter]
awolffromspace http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/245.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/306.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/683.png
[supporter]Ooka[/supporter] http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/248.png
realdonnyv http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/006.png
dreyko http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/479w.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/196.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/303-m.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/198.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/560.png
zygardian harbinger http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/718.png
Opposite Day http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/385.png
Zaroas http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/485.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/645-s.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/248-m.png
Slayr231 http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/286.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/465.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/637.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/479w.png
[supporter]Hikamaru[/supporter] http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/501.pnghttp://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/656.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/700.png
Dark Azelf http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/139.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/110.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/482.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/227.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/242.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/709.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/711-s.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/211.png
Helios93 http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/563.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/430.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/080.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/591.png
[supporter]Synerjee[/supporter] http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/380.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/704.png
Nymphadora http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/212.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/113.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/245.png
Bidoof FTW http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/258.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/340.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/184.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/399.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/115-m.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/677.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/129.png
[supporter]Starry Windy[/supporter] http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/494.pnghttp://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/492.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/468.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/501.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/497.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/653.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/656.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/560.png
BlahISuck http://serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/006.png http://serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/059.pnghttp://serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/229.pnghttp://serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/257.png
Redingard http://serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/466.png http://serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/689.png http://serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/445.png http://serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/006-mx.png http://serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/472.png
Ársa http://serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/359.png http://serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/350.png http://serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/303.png http://serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/380.png
[supporter].Gamer[/supporter] http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/181.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/359.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/701.png
[supporter]Antebellum[/supporter] http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/153.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/445.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/699.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/213.png
[supporter]PlatinumDude[/supporter] http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/475.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/658.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/530.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/448.png
TrainerNico http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/303-m.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/671.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/282-m.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/078.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/573.png
Strawberry http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/700.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/637.png
Pokedra http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/230.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/373.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/214.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/481.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/253.png
Tide http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/431.png
Fomalhaut http://serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/303.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/282.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/475.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/658.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/478.png http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/286.png




Current topic

- How will Pokebank change the meta?

Past topics:
- What's your inspiration and motivation to battle competitively?
- What Pokemon do you think will become XY OU staples?
- How well did XY succeed in balancing the metagame?

- What Pokemon do you predict to be banned next?



Club owned by [supporter]pirouette[/supporter]. Credits to Squirrel for help with the approval of the initial idea and awolffromspace for the approval of the club.


wolf November 21st, 2013 9:56 AM

- Username: Billup (Wolflare, what else would it be???)
- Experience in competitive battling: I'm 1337 and actually beat Elf before! Such experience, wow.
- Favourite Pokemon(s): Suicune, Aggron, and Aromatisse
- Preferred playstyle/core: bulky offense or balance
- Extra: MMMmmMmMMMmMMMm

What's your inspiration and motivation to battle competitively?
I find it more interesting to battle actual people than AI, especially since Pokemon's AI has always been pretty lackluster (see: the wonderful DPP Battle Tower where the only way to lose was to get haxed). More importantly, I've grown attached to PC's battling community, and battling others here has always made it a lot more enjoyable for me. Also, I've always liked the sheer quantity and diversity that Pokemon offers, and how it can be incorporated into team building.

Oh, and I hope you don't mind me changing to font color to black; not everyone uses lighter forum styles, y'know!

Ooka November 21st, 2013 10:45 AM

- Username: Ooka
- Experience in competitive battling: 5-6 years, somewhere in there. Won the official PC Tournament a couple times also, back when they used to have that. xD
- Favourite Pokemon(s): Tyranitar
- Preferred playstyle/core: Semistall w/ Mandibuzz/Rotom-W/MegaSaur

What's your inspiration and motivation to battle competitively?
Well, aside from too much time being invested already? xD Finding good matches really. Nothing better than the rush from being 2-2 in the endgame with no clear winner in sight.

realdonnyv November 21st, 2013 11:05 AM

username- DonnyV
experience-none
favorite pokemon- charizard
preferred style-offensive
Motivation- its fun

dreyko November 21st, 2013 11:49 AM

-Username: dreyko
-Experience Competitively: 3-4 years. I really started getting into it with the release of Pokemon Black and White.
-Favorites: Rotom-W, Espeon, Mega Mawile, Murkrow, Scrafty
-Preferred Playstyle: I play a lot of doubles, 4v4. I like to say i use a medium of stall(Trick Room) to aggressive.

What is your motivation to become better competitively?
Learning and simply having fun are my two biggest motivators in competitive pokemon. Whenever i lose i feel like i learn more about the game and about my style/strategy in a match. I feel that it helps me with team construction(which i love doing). While winning is a nice confidence booster, i do not play to only win, but to have fun, After all if you're not enjoying what your doing, why do it?

zygardian harbinger November 21st, 2013 12:47 PM

Username: zygardian harbinger
Answer to Current Topic: My inspiration for competitive battling comes from the viewpoint of thinking of it as an art. There are many, many possibilities and movesets to consider and discover... I don't know about you guys, but I get quite a kick out of it. It's also a good way to make friends and communicate with other people. Plus, what else are you going to do when you finish the game? Beat the Champion over and over again, restart your game so you lose all your specially trained Pokemon and start anew to satisfy your boredom? Competitive battling is an alternative to that.
Experience in Competitive Battling: About 3-4 years
Favourite Pokemon: Zygarde (<_<)
Preferred Playstyle/Core: Doubles Battle Strategies
Extra: What should I put for extra??? Lol

Opposite Day November 21st, 2013 1:10 PM

- Username: Opposite Day
- Experience in competitive battling: Quite a bit - Been playing since DP/Plat (:>), but has been gone for most of BW/BW2 (Gen 4 UU any day!)
- Favourite Pokemon(s): Jirachi.
- Preferred playstyle/core: Overpredicting and anything gimmicky.
- Extra: I absolutely love damage calcs and tweaking EV spreads to make them more suitable to my needs. 252/252 is boring man.

What's your inspiration and motivation to battle competitively?
What got me into competetive battling was the battle logs and the amount of skill showcased in them, pokemon seemed to be some form of complicated chess, but with a ton of different, highly customizable pieces instead. I wanted to become like those players, and be good enough that I could showcase my own battles. Over the last few years, surprisingly little has changed in that regard (and so you'll likely find me asking everyone for battles on the server)!

Zaroas November 21st, 2013 2:01 PM

Username: Zaroas
- Experience in competitive battling: Around 4 years, been playing since around the release of Platinum. I used to frequent the Shoddy Battle/PO servers for PC and suspect tested Generation V.
- Favourite Pokemon(s): Heatran, Landorus-T, Mega Tyranitar
- Preferred playstyle/core: Balanced teams, sometimes more offensively oriented.
- Extra: I enjoy tweaking my teams until they're perfectly suited to my needs, as well as testing out new playstyles and sets.

-What's your inspiration and motivation to battle competitively?
My main motivation is honestly to just have fun. I enjoy creating new strategies, playstyles, etc. because it's a great hobby that I don't plan on giving up any time soon.

Nolafus November 21st, 2013 2:04 PM

Username: Slayr231
- What's your inspiration and motivation to battle competitively?: I just got bored battling my friends in class. We kept trying to outdo each other and when I could beat anyone at my high school I figured this could be something I could get in to. I love the strategy behind it and hardly anything feels better than being able to stomp out teams with my grass team when I have the disadvantage.
- Experience in competitive battling: 2-3 years (ish)
- Favourite Pokemon(s): Competitively speaking, Breloom, Tangrowth, Volcarona, and now Rotom-W.
- Preferred playstyle/core: My favorite tier is monotype with my grass team. My favorite playing style is hyper-offensive.
- Extra: I'm pretty busy with college, so I don't know if I'll be able to do any tournaments, but I'm almost always up for a battle or two if I'm on. Just shoot me a VM and I'll reply back with whether or not I'm open. Oh, and I only do simulator battles, no wifi at my house.

halcyonic November 21st, 2013 4:36 PM

So hey guys, welcome to the club! I really enjoyed reading about the experiences you guys had. Also, I feel like hosting a tourney to kick things off soon, so maybe you guys could discuss on something new? perhaps some xy nerfs or so?

dreyko November 21st, 2013 5:06 PM

I would be up for a tourney! =)

In terms of nerfs in X/Y there are two major nerfs that i think of.
1. Weather (obviously)
2. Steel "resistances" or lack there of.

Most of us are probably familiar with the weather nerf, as all weather affects from an ability only last five turns in battle, as opposed to the whole match. I feel that this hampers weather teams a little. Now teams that rely on the sunny side, or the sandy side =p all the time actually have a clock which the player needs to be aware of in order to take advantage of the current weather.

Steel no longer resists ghost type moves (i believe) and dark type moves. A first glance this seems small, but i believe that this makes huge difference in some cases. A pokemon i can think of that this kinda nerfs is Metagross. While having decent defenses, it losing its resistance to dark type moves is definitely something to take into account. Also being able to hit a Scizor for nuetral damage on the switch in with Crunch or Dark Pulse is worth noting.

zygardian harbinger November 21st, 2013 5:28 PM

And that's where Aegislash falls hard. Since Steel-type no longer resists Ghost- and Dark-types, each will be super effective. Bronzong, as a Steel- and Psychic-type, will also suffer from Ghost- and Dark-types. Metagross also.

dreyko November 21st, 2013 5:37 PM

Also, i feel that the nerf to spore, while having less impact on the competitive scene than a weather nerf is still something to be noted.

Since grass type pokemon can not be put to sleep by spore, it can mess up strategies and allow free switches and set-up by a grass type, MegaSaur and Ferrothorn are good examples.

halcyonic November 21st, 2013 5:42 PM

im surprised none of you didnt mention jirachi. steel pokemon that could effectively switch in to either dark or ghost cant do so anymore e.g. scizor, heatran, etc. but i dont find anything too bad about it, just gotta find the right counter to your threats.

and spore isnt the only nerfed move, any powder move in general can't affect grass types and pokemon which has the safety goggles equipped.

also, what about the nerf to special moves?
Quote:

-Flamethrower, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Surf and Muddy Water now have 90 BP instead of 95
-Heat Wave now has 95 BP instead of 100
-Fire Blast, Blizzard, Thunder, Hydro Pump and Hurricane now have 110 BP instead of 120
-Aura Sphere now has 80 BP instead of 90
-Dragon Pulse now has 85 BP instead of 90
-Overheat, Leaf Storm and Draco Meteor now have 130 BP instead of 140
-Hidden Power now has 60 BP instead of 70
they're obvious too, should ohkos now become 2hkos?

dreyko November 21st, 2013 5:56 PM

hmmm that is an excellent point that i overlooked when posting.

I've noticed that in some cases the drop in base power influences whether or not the target is ohkoed. If the move is 4x super effective then they pokemon will probably be OHKO'ed. Also, STAB or no STAB influences if the pokemon faints off the bat or does not.

Perhaps items that boost power, such as Life Orb, Choice Specs can be used to make up for that drop in base power?

zygardian harbinger November 21st, 2013 6:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreyko (Post 7947857)
Perhaps items that boost power, such as Life Orb, Choice Specs can be used to make up for that drop in base power?

Perhaps they can, but without them, OHKO's wouldn't be so easy to make. I mean, it doesn't look like a major drop in BP, but it makes a difference all the while. I actually did notice that where my Charizard's Flamethrower should have OHKO'd a Grass-type, it barely left it with health, but he still survived... I actually didn't notice those drops in power, however...

Ooka November 21st, 2013 8:20 PM

The nerf to stall, while not direct, is pretty huge imo. Steel lost it's Ghost and Dark resistance, of course, which is the first hit it took. Things like Skarmory, Forretress, Bronzong, Jirachi, Heatran, and Metagross really hate losing that, as they can't switch in on some of the things they had no fear of coming in on before. For example, Sp. Def Jirachi can't come in on Gengar and feel safe, same for Metagross with Tyranitar.

In addition to that, some HUGE wallbreakers were added. Aegislash, which imo is the biggest one, can really break stuff with it's mixed set. Then you have Magic Bounce Mega Absol, Mega Garchomp, Mega Charizard Y, all of which have crazy wall breaking capability with their mixed sets.

Then look at what we got in the way of walls this gen. Florges, Sylveon, Carbink, Goodra, Gourgeist, Avalugg.

The only usable ones (OU) being Florges, Goodra and Gourgeist imo. So 3 walls, all easily broken by the Pokemon I mentioned before, so not really any help.

And of course, the big one, Defog was added. This means that even if you run the epic Jellicent, all of your hard earned hazards can still disappear in just 1 turn, without anything to block it.

In my honest opinion, this gen is the death of full stall.

zygardian harbinger November 21st, 2013 8:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ooka (Post 7948022)
Steel lost it's Ghost and Dark resistance, of course, which is the first hit it took. Things like Skarmory, Forretress, Bronzong, Jirachi, Heatran, and Metagross really hate losing that, as they can't switch in on some of the things they had no fear of coming in on before. For example, Sp. Def Jirachi can't come in on Gengar and feel safe, same for Metagross with Tyranitar.

You know, I just realised... can't Bisharp switch into the Ghost- and Dark-types, being of a Dark-type itself?

Nolafus November 21st, 2013 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zygardian harbinger (Post 7948032)
You know, I just realised... can't Bisharp switch into the Ghost- and Dark-types, being of a Dark-type itself?

Why yes it can! :D

Bisharp retains the bragging rights of being the only steel type to still resist ghost and dark. It has found a more noticeable niche, but beware those fighting types! D:

Hikamaru November 22nd, 2013 2:45 AM

Username: Hikari10
Favorite Pokemon: Oshawott, Froakie, Sylveon (yeah I love cuties lol)
Experience in competitive battling: Around a year, but I'm still learning!

What's your inspiration and motivation to battle competitively?: My main inspiration to get into the competitive metagame was when I joined the PC battle server around last December (where my current identity there is Daikenki. I was previously also known there as OshyHikari, Hikamaru and Zeddawott among my many names I've used) and I participated in random battles where I managed to bring out the potential in Pokemon I've never even used competitively, plus I want to study the metagame so I can help with team assistance here in the future. Competitive play is something you need to plan and learn to get right, it's like a game of Russian Roulette.

On the topic of nerfs in X/Y, I have to say the Steel-type losing the Dark and Ghost resistance is one of the biggest ones because it gives some Steels like Jirachi, Bronzong and Metagross additional weaknesses, which could hamper their usage yet it now makes some Pokemon have a new strength to not have to rely on stuff like Focus Blast just to get past the average Steel-type. I know that Gengar will become popular in OU as a result since it doesn't have to rely on Focus Blast to hit most Steels for a fair amount of damage, plus Bisharp is finally getting a chance to shine for being the only Steel to still resist Dark and Ghost.

The weather nerf will also hurt a few Pokemon that rely on weather, and it means those playing with weather teams will now have to utilize a new way to make it work effectively. Mega Evolutions are also making a huge impact due to some getting usable abilities and some handy niches. Fairy-type even buffed strong attackers such as Gardevoir, Azumarill and Togekiss giving them new uses. Plus there's a really good new Eeveelution in Sylveon. I know that with all those Fairy-types running around, Dragons will have to play with new strategies since they can't just Outrage spam anymore.

Plus, I'm now happy that Defog has an additional thing going for it. Rapid Spin suffered a huge lack of effective users in OU so giving that same entry hazard-clearing effect to Defog makes clearing Stealth Rocks and the like much easier.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MidnightShine
and spore isnt the only nerfed move, any powder move in general can't affect grass types and pokemon which has the safety goggles equipped.

I also want to point out that Pokemon with the Overcoat ability are also immune to powder moves. At least that now makes this ability set apart from Magic Guard in a way.

halcyonic November 22nd, 2013 2:49 AM

welcome to the club, hikari :3 and guys, feel free to discuss about the nerfs x and y brought to us, also the buffs if you guys wanna :p

Dark Azelf November 22nd, 2013 3:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ooka (Post 7948022)
The nerf to stall, while not direct, is pretty huge imo. Steel lost it's Ghost and Dark resistance, of course, which is the first hit it took. Things like Skarmory, Forretress, Bronzong, Jirachi, Heatran, and Metagross really hate losing that, as they can't switch in on some of the things they had no fear of coming in on before. For example, Sp. Def Jirachi can't come in on Gengar and feel safe, same for Metagross with Tyranitar.

In addition to that, some HUGE wallbreakers were added. Aegislash, which imo is the biggest one, can really break stuff with it's mixed set. Then you have Magic Bounce Mega Absol, Mega Garchomp, Mega Charizard Y, all of which have crazy wall breaking capability with their mixed sets.

Then look at what we got in the way of walls this gen. Florges, Sylveon, Carbink, Goodra, Gourgeist, Avalugg.

The only usable ones (OU) being Florges, Goodra and Gourgeist imo. So 3 walls, all easily broken by the Pokemon I mentioned before, so not really any help.

And of course, the big one, Defog was added. This means that even if you run the epic Jellicent, all of your hard earned hazards can still disappear in just 1 turn, without anything to block it.

In my honest opinion, this gen is the death of full stall.

I disagree with that. Stall is still effective but its "new stall" really, old school stall hasnt been good since gen 4 sadly.

I feel Defog also kills offense too as offense relies on Stealth Rock to get past many checks. Stall teams can use Defog too to thwart Spikes stacking against them (one of the best ways to wall break) and just wait until offensive hazard setters are dead and just use status to wear you down. It really makes no difference ive found. Also remember stall teams often use bulky Pokemon so can set up multiple times after you kill their Defogger. Which brings me to my next point.

Trappers easily remove Defog users and are easy to utilize on stall. Stall just has to adapt. Honestly if you use a Defog user against one of my teams you WILL go 5-6 down straight from the get go. Wasted slot vs elf stall.

Stall just has to be more aggressive, but its still quite usable.

Also all these wall breakers can still be stopped. Mix Aegislash is relatively weak and checked by bulky waters, Heatran etc.

Mega Abosol isnt beating Sylveon or Florgees anytime soon. MegaChomp is a little harder to check as it can go mixed but it has 4mss and struggles with bulky grass types like Gourgeist and also Gliscor if it uses SD + 3 Attacks. If it uses a Mix Set i.e ChainChomp then its walled by stuff like Gyarados and Togekiss and all out attackers are stopped by well anything with good mix defenses see: Deoxys-D, Jellicent, Vap, Sp.Def Hippow etc.

Lastly also still relevant trapping move buff were a pretty big boon to stall imo as far as residual damage goes. Even without hazards you'd be surprised how fast say Toxic/Wisp and possibly SS/Hail + Infestation/Wrap/Whirlpool absolutely ruin many pokemon in so few turns its scary lol.

Oh and Quagsire is awesome.

Anyway;

- Username: Dark Azelf
- Answer to current topic: see above.
- Experience in competitive battling: Lol since gsc. Got to #1 in most tiers ladders during gen 4 and 5. I also pioneered Volt Turning in gen 4.
- Favourite Pokemon(s): Omastar, Weezing, Azelf, Skarm, Bliss, Trevenent, Gourgeist, Qwilfish.
- Preferred playstyle/core: Anything that works the best. So "elf offense", "elf stall", "elf defensive offense", "elf HO". Elf weak. :)
- Extra: Im shredded and my biceps are larger than urs.

-What's your inspiration and motivation to battle competitively?

I retired and im trying to not be rusty/enjoy comp battling again and get back into things.

Helios93 November 22nd, 2013 4:09 AM

Username: Helios93
What's your inspiration and motivation to battle competitively?: It's fun when we consider all the countless combos and strategies in the game.

Experience in competitive battling: 2 years

Favourite Pokemon(s): Confagrius, Honchkrow, Amoongus and Slowbro.

Preferred playstyle/core: Avoid using OU pokes whenever possible because I don't like similarity in team. I love to use NU or UU pokes in OU battle just to see how well they perform. Currently, I've been testing Ariados in Pokemon Showdown and surprisingly it did well.

Extra: I'm pretty busy with college in a few more days, and due to timezone, I might not able to join in for any tourney but a few battle request won't hurt, right?

Synerjee November 22nd, 2013 4:12 AM

- Username: synerjee

- Answer to current topic: What's your inspiration and motivation to battle competitively?
I just love the feeling of putting together a winning team and winning battle after battle. Gives me a sense of accomplishment.

- Experience in competitive battling:
I've only been competitive battling for about only a year. Before this, I didn't have any interest in it at all. So much has changed since then.

- Favourite Pokemon(s):
Competitively speaking, I don't really have any favourites to be honest. Each and every Pokemon has their own strengths and weaknesses which help me in many different situations. I'll go with Latias and Goomy though.

- Preferred playstyle/core:
I prefer a mixture of all-out attacking and defensive-stalling. Great for hitting hard and resisting getting knocked out easily.

halcyonic November 22nd, 2013 5:26 AM

the more the merrier, thanks guys for joining :]
elf it was a pain to insert all those icons for you xD

feel free to discuss about xy nerfs and buffs more before someone changes the topic, main op topic will be changed before i leave for hongkong too.

side note: looking for someone who can manage the club for four days while im at hongkong. i might drop by a few times if i have the chance to, but meh :p

Ooka November 22nd, 2013 8:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Azelf (Post 7948347)
I disagree with that. Stall is still effective but its "new stall" really, old school stall hasnt been good since gen 4 sadly.

I feel Defog also kills offense too as offense relies on Stealth Rock to get past many checks. Stall teams can use Defog too to thwart Spikes stacking against them (one of the best ways to wall break) and just wait until offensive hazard setters are dead and just use status to wear you down. It really makes no difference ive found. Also remember stall teams often use bulky Pokemon so can set up multiple times after you kill their Defogger. Which brings me to my next point.

Trappers easily remove Defog users and are easy to utilize on stall. Stall just has to adapt. Honestly if you use a Defog user against one of my teams you WILL go 5-6 down straight from the get go. Wasted slot vs elf stall.

Other than Mega Gengar, what trapper can take out Mandibuzz? D:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Azelf (Post 7948347)
Stall just has to be more aggressive, but its still quite usable.

But then it starts to be semi-stall, not full stall, which is what I was talking about. :3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Azelf (Post 7948347)
Mega Abosol isnt beating Sylveon or Florgees anytime soon. MegaChomp is a little harder to check as it can go mixed but it has 4mss and struggles with bulky grass types like Gourgeist and also Gliscor if it uses SD + 3 Attacks. If it uses a Mix Set i.e ChainChomp then its walled by stuff like Gyarados and Togekiss and all out attackers are stopped by well anything with good mix defenses see: Deoxys-D, Jellicent, Vap, Sp.Def Hippow etc.

+2 252+ Atk Rayquaza Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Umbreon: 249-293 (74.55 - 87.72%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

(Rayquaza has same Attack stat as Mega Absol, Leaf Blade has same power as Play Rough, Changed Umbreon's base stats to match Sylveon)

+2 252+ Atk Rayquaza Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Umbreon: 326-384 (90.55 - 106.66%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

(And this one is with Florges' base stats)

So even if they run max Defense, they can't come in on it very many times.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Azelf (Post 7948347)
Lastly also still relevant trapping move buff were a pretty big boon to stall imo as far as residual damage goes. Even without hazards you'd be surprised how fast say Toxic/Wisp and possibly SS/Hail + Infestation/Wrap/Whirlpool absolutely ruin many pokemon in so few turns its scary lol.

Oh and Quagsire is awesome.

Yeah, that damage does rack up super quick, which is one of the very few buffs that helps stall. Infestation Goodra is nasty imo. And Quagsire is pretty awesome. xD

Dark Azelf November 22nd, 2013 9:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ooka (Post 7948623)
Other than Mega Gengar, what trapper can take out Mandibuzz? D:

There is Specs Gothitelle who is cool for various elimination needs Also if you lack Taunt, Tickle Wobb + Pursuit user ruin it.

+2 252+ Atk Rayquaza Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Umbreon: 249-293 (74.55 - 87.72%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

(Rayquaza has same Attack stat as Mega Absol, Leaf Blade has same power as Play Rough, Changed Umbreon's base stats to match Sylveon)

+2 252+ Atk Rayquaza Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Umbreon: 326-384 (90.55 - 106.66%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

(And this one is with Florges' base stats)

So even if they run max Defense, they can't come in on it very many times.

You should run some def evs on both, anything up to max. :P There is also unaware Clefable, Aromatisse and Togekiss who are both really awesome and have better defense.


Yeah, that damage does rack up super quick, which is one of the very few buffs that helps stall. Infestation Goodra is nasty imo. And Quagsire is pretty awesome. xD

:)


Quote:

elf it was a pain to insert all those icons for you xD

Ooka November 22nd, 2013 9:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Azelf (Post 7948657)
:)

+2 252+ Atk Rayquaza Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Umbreon: 219-258 (60.83 - 71.66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
(Florges)

+2 252+ Atk Rayquaza Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Umbreon: 225-265 (57.1 - 67.25%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
(Sylveon)

+2 252+ Atk Rayquaza Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 212-250 (52.21 - 61.57%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
(Aromatisse)

+2 252+ Atk Rayquaza Leaf Blade vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Togekiss: 178-210 (47.72 - 56.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Unaware Clefable can tank a few hits, so sure it's an option.

252+ Atk Rayquaza Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 106-125 (26.9 - 31.72%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock
(That's Unaware damage, with Magic Guard it's of course doubled)

D:

Anti November 22nd, 2013 9:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ooka (Post 7948623)
But then it starts to be semi-stall, not full stall, which is what I was talking about. :3

Not to get too into terminology here, but "semi-stall" is basically "full stall" adapted to the gen 4 metagame (and beyond). If by full stall you mean a reactive mix of six slow walls, hazards, sandstorm (or hail I guess), spinblocker, spinner, etc., then yeah it's not going to be seen much, just like gen 3 Choice Band teams aren't seen anymore because you can play that style better now--it adapted into bulky offense or hyper offense. People have invented new terms for playstyles that have just adapted in order to stay viable, which isn't evil or anything, but in some full stall and semistall are basically just the same playstyle that look different because of their surroundings.

(Unless semi-stall has become more distinctive since gen four. I suspect it hasn't, but I suppose it could be different. Maybe it's semi-half-sort of-semi-stall now. ;p)

also heyyyy guys

Ooka November 22nd, 2013 9:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anti (Post 7948675)
Not to get too into terminology here, but "semi-stall" is basically "full stall" adapted to the gen 4 metagame (and beyond). If by full stall you mean a reactive mix of six slow walls, hazards, sandstorm (or hail I guess), spinblocker, spinner, etc., then yeah it's not going to be seen much, just like gen 3 Choice Band teams aren't seen anymore because you can play that style better now--it adapted into bulky offense or hyper offense. People have invented new terms for playstyles that have just adapted in order to stay viable, which isn't evil or anything, but in some full stall and semistall are basically just the same playstyle that look different because of their surroundings.

(Unless semi-stall has become more distinctive since gen four. I suspect it hasn't, but I suppose it could be different. Maybe it's semi-half-sort of-semi-stall now. ;p)

also heyyyy guys

"Unlike heavy stall, stall-based balance[semi-stall] does threaten the opponent’s team offensively and pokemon who do not mind residual damage [such as Flygon and most steels] are hard pressed. Stall-based balance[semi-stall] also runs things like CM + Roar Latias or a lategame SD Scizor to clean up."

http://pokemetrics.wordpress.com/2012/08/16/measuring-stall-2/

Also hi Anti, I love you. <3

Anti November 22nd, 2013 9:40 AM

I don't think that contradicts what I said at all, quite the opposite. It's not that there aren't substantive differences but rather that these differences aren't indicative of a different playstyle, and honestly, if semistall is putting ScarfTar over Blissey and a CM/Roar Latias over, say, Tentacruel (these are gen 4 examples), then the team is still operating in more or less the same way in its underlying strategy for winning games.

(Obviously kind of a pointless debate, but that's sort of the fun of it, eh?)

also gurl no way im reading that haha

Ooka November 22nd, 2013 9:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anti (Post 7948690)
I don't think that contradicts what I said at all, quite the opposite. It's not that there aren't substantive differences but rather that these differences aren't indicative of a different playstyle, and honestly, if semistall is putting ScarfTar over Blissey and a CM/Roar Latias over, say, Tentacruel (these are gen 4 examples), then the team is still operating in more or less the same way in its underlying strategy for winning games.

(Obviously kind of a pointless debate, but that's sort of the fun of it, eh?)

also gurl no way im reading that haha

What fun would it be if there were an actual outcome of it? xD

http://pokemetrics.wordpress.com/2012/09/13/revisions-revisions/

The chart there is probably better than the long post I linked to last.

Dark Azelf November 22nd, 2013 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ooka (Post 7948670)
+2 252+ Atk Rayquaza Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Umbreon: 219-258 (60.83 - 71.66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
(Florges)

+2 252+ Atk Rayquaza Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Umbreon: 225-265 (57.1 - 67.25%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
(Sylveon)

+2 252+ Atk Rayquaza Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 212-250 (52.21 - 61.57%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
(Aromatisse)

+2 252+ Atk Rayquaza Leaf Blade vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Togekiss: 178-210 (47.72 - 56.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Unaware Clefable can tank a few hits, so sure it's an option.

252+ Atk Rayquaza Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 106-125 (26.9 - 31.72%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock
(That's Unaware damage, with Magic Guard it's of course doubled)

D:

And if it stays in all return the KO with Moonblast. :P

Ooka November 22nd, 2013 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Azelf (Post 7948776)
And if it stays in all return the KO with Moonblast. :P

After they've been dropped to 30-40% :3 Of course, now we're just theorymoning. xD


So what do people think will start to become staples in future OU and what's just being overhyped right now?

Imo Talonflame is all hype and it's going to drop in usage once people learn how to take it out (If Geodude can own it, there has to be a problem). Aegislash is another one I feel is pretty overhyped.

I feel like once the megas that are uber get out of the way, Mega Absol and Mega Ampharos will get a chance to shine. Both are fun and pretty beastly, Mampharos being like a Goodra on roids, and Mabsol being super fast and cool looking. :3

dreyko November 22nd, 2013 9:17 PM

I agree that Aegislash and Talonflame are all hype.

A few pokemon i feel that will be OU staples are Greninja, Gourgeist, and Charizard Y.

Greninja is very versatile and deadly at the same time. STAB on any move it gets is crazy good (Poptarts) along with its movepool as well.

Gourgeist is simply a tank with a good movepool as well, and i see it as a good functioning member of stall teams.

Charizard Y can potentially take the throne away from Ninetales on drought/sun teams. It also gets solarbeam so that is a major plus in keeping it alive, i feel.

There are probably more, but these three were the ones i could think of off the top of my head.

EDIT: I may be biased on this one, but i feel that Mega Mawile will be popular in OU

halcyonic November 22nd, 2013 9:33 PM

anti, its good to see you joining in on the chat! if you feel like taking part more, please submit your registration form and you'll be added to the members list :]

nice to see a topic change :p like dreyko, i feel that greninja will be popular in ou, thanks to stab on every move and access to great moves such as spikes, hydro pump, u-turn and two forms of priority.

talonflame is meh, aegislash is overhyped and easy to counter, but a great asset to any team if played correctly tho. azumarill is great too, thanks to drumjet being legal now and its additional fairy typing.

btw im also working on a tourney, should be pokebank ubers :p and...
Quote:

side note: looking for someone who can manage the club for four days while im at hongkong. i might drop by a few times if i have the chance to, but meh :p

Ooka November 23rd, 2013 3:13 AM

Agreed with Greninja and Gourgeist definitely, they're extremely solid Pokemon (I heard talk about Greninja getting banned from OU, just because of it's unpredictability, great movepool, Protean and speed+power. I personally doubt it'll happen though).

Hiatus November 23rd, 2013 4:54 AM

- Username: Perdition Haze.
- Experience in competitive battling: Been battling on and off for approximately three years. I'm good at it, but not that good.
- Favourite Pokemon(s): Scizor, Chansey, and Suicune.
- Preferred playstyle/core: Defensive, and sometimes bulky offense.

What's your inspiration and motivation to battle competitively?
To pass time and have fun. I randomly stumbled into Smogon one day; by seeing all the battlers hanging around there, I wanted to join in on the fun. Was pretty terrible when I first started, but with help from few of the members there (as well as couple of my personal friend, who were also into competitive battling), my skills began to get better. Now, I'd say I'm an okay battler. I could easily be outsmarted, though. If you do outsmart me, you'd be winning the match in an instant. d:

halcyonic November 23rd, 2013 5:23 AM

hey perdition haze, nice to see more people joining :) feel free to join in chat, currently our topic is about gen 6 ou staples.

Bidoof FTW23232 November 23rd, 2013 5:54 AM

Username: I don't know
Experience in competitive: A good two months.
Favorite Pokemanz: Mudkip, Whiscash, Azumarill, Bidoof, Mega Kanzlerkhan (kanga), espurr, and magikarp.
Preferred playstyle/core: NU Stall is the best. But i will play anything.

What's your inspiration and motivation to battle competitively?
Well, it all started when I discovered one of my friends still played Platinum. I decided I would make the perfect team in order to beat him, which I did (not telling the team >:D) but... I wanted...more....pokemon... I found this out. (I might tell the full story later) And once I found Showdown, I fell in love. Like, I go on there every freakin day!! But I battle because it's fun and I get to make new friends and amazing people along the way.

halcyonic November 23rd, 2013 5:57 AM

doof, please edit your post with the answer to the topic in the op and you're welcome to join, ty :3

sorry doof, im partially blind without my specs. welcome to the club, so yea, go discuss gen 6 ou pokemon for now :]

Starry Windy November 23rd, 2013 7:32 AM

Username: Wind Heart
What's your inspiration and motivation to battle competitively?
I was hearing an upcoming tournament by one of the club in here, and I decided to check out the place for battling, which is PC Battle Server. On there, I was given the taste of competitive battling for the first time via random battling and won on my first try, that's the reason I joined competitive battling on the first place, and since then, I'm battling competitively because I want to have fun.

Experience in competitive battling: About 9 months ago, but still have lots to learn.
Favourite Pokemon(s): I have so many lists, but among them are Victini, Shaymin, Togekiss, Oshawott, Serperior, Fennekin, Froakie and Scrafty.
Preferred playstyle/core: I'm focusing mostly on offensive playstyle and type advantages, but sometimes I try another ways of battling too.

halcyonic November 23rd, 2013 7:40 AM

omg so many members joining in one day @[email protected] but hey chris, thanks for joining, you get the deal, try to discuss about our current topic which is gen 6 ou staples along the way, kay?

Starry Windy November 23rd, 2013 7:57 AM

I personally think Greninja and Aegislash are among any Pokémon who have the best OU potential. I thought Doublade is already enough before Aegislash is revealed, and I find out that Aegislash does its job surprisingly well, meanwhile as in Greninja, its Protean ability makes the match outcome a bit unpredictable.

And I absolutely welcome the changes of how the Electric-types now immune to paralyzing, and how Grass types immune to spore-based moves, which makes them difficult to take down, and I like how Defog finally clears the obstacles like Stealth Rock on the side of my own, and not just on my opponent's side.

Kanzler November 23rd, 2013 9:09 AM

Username: BlahISuck

What's your inspiration and motivation to battle competitively?

Not much, just to have fun, really. I don't even have teams nowadays since I'm tired of cookies wiping them out and I'm too lazy to make backups. Mostly I watch other people battle, provide input, and do randbats.

Experience in competitive battling: 4-5 months methinks.

Favourite Pokemon(s): Charizard, Arcanine, Houndoom, Blaziken

Preferred playstyle/core: I'm more comfortable playing stall than offensive. One thing I need to lose on is keeping momentum and pressure on my opponent. However, I'm more than willing to make sacrifices and go for deathstrokes if needs require it.

zygardian harbinger November 23rd, 2013 10:55 AM

I can agree with Mega Charizard Y being a staple in OU. It has a superb Special Attack rating, and a good Speed, too. Drought can boost its Fire-type moves, and it learns some of the more powerful ones, like Inferno, although the accuracy is terrible. :/ Heat Wave is a good one, too. I used it in Triples with Blaziken and Delphox and put it in the centre. The damage I was dealing was immense. Not to mention Heat Wave hit all three of the opponent's Pokemon.

wolf November 23rd, 2013 12:04 PM

I think it'll be interesting to see if Ninetales will remain OU after the metagame has matured a bit. It's pretty much outclassed by Mega Charizard Y aside from being able to use Hypnosis and Nasty Plot as well as not being 4x weak to Stealth Rock. Drought in UU with Victini, Chandelure, and the like sounds pretty nasty, so even if it does drop to UU, it'll probably get banned.

Out of the new Pokemon, I'd say Aegislash, Talonflame, Greninja, Goodra, Gourgeist-H, Sylveon or Florges, and Klefki will end up in OU, in order of popularity. I don't think any of them are particularly over-hyped. Each of them seem to have earned pretty solid positions in OU. On the other hand, Noivern, Malamar, Tyrantrum, Zygarde, Avalugg, Dragalge, etc. all seem pretty mediocre and I don't expect them to stay popular for long. As for MEvos, I foresee Gengarite getting banned soon, while Lucario, Mawile, Charizard, Blastoise, and Kangaskhan ending up as the most popular. Gardevoir, Absol, Ampharos, Aggron, and Venusaur seem to have a chance, but I worry that the other MEvos will steal their thunder. The last three of those take a big hit by not being able to use Leftovers. Absol in particular reminds me of a better Weavile, but it has pretty major problems (has difficulty switching in and seems difficult to MEvolve).

Redingard November 23rd, 2013 12:44 PM

- Username: Redingard

- Answer to current topic: I've seen quitew a few Tyranitars sweeping my team just after one Dragon Dance. Sure, it's weakness to fighting is pretty big, but it can outspeed most OU after just one Dragon Dance. Mega Evolutions don't seem to be big on him, though. I've never fought against one and survived, so its place in OU seems pretty well deserved and won't be knocked down any time soon.

- Experience in competitive battling: I started about two weeks ago, around when I started breeding. I'm pretty bad right now and probably have invalid opinions, but that's what PC is for, amirite?

- Favourite Pokemon(s): Electivire, Barbaracle, Garchomp, Mega Charizard X, Gliscor

- Preferred playstyle/core: Full-out physical sweeping. Hoping to incorporate some Def/Sp. Def walls.

Nolafus November 23rd, 2013 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redingard
I started about two weeks ago, around when I started breeding. I'm pretty bad right now and probably have invalid opinions, but that's what PC is for, amirite?

Exactly! :D

I've learned a lot on this site. It's nice to hear all the different opinions. I recently just got back into battling for gen 6 and I realized just how much I'm missing out. I've been fairing pretty well, but it's going to take a while for me to get back to my former glory (which wasn't that high in the first place XD ).

I'm starting to notice pokemon that were very popular at first such as Talonflame and Klefki are now almost non-existent. Well, I haven't faced them yet since gen 6 on Showdown was first introduced.

Zaroas November 23rd, 2013 4:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolflare (Post 7950312)
Out of the new Pokemon, I'd say Aegislash, Talonflame, Greninja, Goodra, Gourgeist-H, Sylveon or Florges, and Klefki will end up in OU, in order of popularity. I don't think any of them are particularly over-hyped. Each of them seem to have earned pretty solid positions in OU.

I've seen a Gourgeist only once after playing on Showdown for the past month or so. Trevenant is a lot more common from my experience, though I'm not sure which would be better overall - Trevenant has better abilities with Natural Cure and Harvest, but Gourgeist has better defensive stats. It may come down to personal preference in the end (I use Trevenant a lot), but we'll see. Sylveon and Florges may or may not be OU - Again, I haven't seen them as much due to the presence of Togekiss and Azumarill. Sylveon and Florges are very similar Pokemon, so wherever one goes the other one will likely follow. I could see them in lower OU or BL.


Quote:

I'm starting to notice pokemon that were very popular at first such as Talonflame and Klefki are now almost non-existent. Well, I haven't faced them yet since gen 6 on Showdown was first introduced.
I've seen Talonflame just as much as I did when the metagame first started out but Klefki I've been seeing less and less of. I'm not sure why that is - Maybe other Prankster users/utility Pokemon outclass some sets. For example, Deoxys-D and Deoxys-S are much better at setting down hazards and dual screens.

One Pokemon I've been seeing less of is the Kings Shield/SD/Shadow Sneak/Sacred Sword Aegislash set. Aegislash itself hasn't seemed to take a hit, but I've encountered more mixed versions of it to surprise foes like Skarmory that would normally wall it or phase it out.

halcyonic November 23rd, 2013 8:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlahISuck (Post 7950098)
Username: BlahISuck

What's your inspiration and motivation to battle competitively?

Not much, just to have fun, really. I don't even have teams nowadays since I'm tired of cookies wiping them out and I'm too lazy to make backups. Mostly I watch other people battle, provide input, and do randbats.

Experience in competitive battling: 4-5 months methinks.

Favourite Pokemon(s): Charizard, Arcanine, Houndoom, Blaziken

Preferred playstyle/core: I'm more comfortable playing stall than offensive. One thing I need to lose on is keeping momentum and pressure on my opponent. However, I'm more than willing to make sacrifices and go for deathstrokes if needs require it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redingard (Post 7950364)
- Username: Redingard

- Answer to current topic: I've seen quitew a few Tyranitars sweeping my team just after one Dragon Dance. Sure, it's weakness to fighting is pretty big, but it can outspeed most OU after just one Dragon Dance. Mega Evolutions don't seem to be big on him, though. I've never fought against one and survived, so its place in OU seems pretty well deserved and won't be knocked down any time soon.

- Experience in competitive battling: I started about two weeks ago, around when I started breeding. I'm pretty bad right now and probably have invalid opinions, but that's what PC is for, amirite?

- Favourite Pokemon(s): Electivire, Barbaracle, Garchomp, Mega Charizard X, Gliscor

- Preferred playstyle/core: Full-out physical sweeping. Hoping to incorporate some Def/Sp. Def walls.

hey blahisuck and redingard, welcome to the club :D its always fun to see more people joining ;] have fun discussing whatever the topic is rn :p

also im leaving for hongkong tomorrow :[ ill most likely be able to come during the plane flight, but other than that, chances are pretty low for me to come again. so yea, just have fun with each other guys :]

oh, ill most probably post the tourney next week, just in case any of you were wondering. the tourney shouldnt be in pokebank ubers too, maybe pokebank ou or any other tier :p

Ársa November 23rd, 2013 9:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolflare (Post 7950312)
I think it'll be interesting to see if Ninetales will remain OU after the metagame has matured a bit. It's pretty much outclassed by Mega Charizard Y aside from being able to use Hypnosis and Nasty Plot as well as not being 4x weak to Stealth Rock. Drought in UU with Victini, Chandelure, and the like sounds pretty nasty, so even if it does drop to UU, it'll probably get banned.

The issue is that Charizard Y takes up a MegaEvo slot that Ninetails doesn't. Considering the weather nerf, I wouldn't be half-surprised if teams started running both Ninetails/Charizard Y to ensure the sun was maintained. Especially because in and of itself, Charizard is one of the bigger beneficiaries of it.

Anyway,

Username: Tortured_Soul

Experience: Mainly around DP era - had a number of teams peak on the Shoddy ladder in that time, and considered myself a rather decent battler. I was a regular S&M rater at the time as well. Stuck around for a little while in Platinum, then lost interest until recently. Now I'm pretty much back to square-one; not a clue about the metagame.

Inspiration: Funny concept. Basically just enjoyment, or something to help pass the time while I'm on Uni break. I'll never be as interested as I was back in high school, but right now I'm just interested in getting back into the game and catching up with those still around from the 'good 'ol days'.

Fave Pokemon: Absol, Milotic, Mawile Latias

Playstyle: Bulky offense mainly, built around a solid FWG core (Heatran + Gyara + Celebi was a staple on quite a few of my teams in DP)

Topic: Everything has been pretty much covered. I haven't actually spent much time playing Gen 6 yet, that will come in the next few weeks. As far as new pokes are concerned, the playability of Greninja and its ability to threaten almost anything with SE STAB makes a great case for an OU staple. Talonflame's potency depends on how common defog users (and by association uncommon SR users) become as the metagame evolves. Goodra, Gourgeist and Klefki are a few of my personal faves that I think will find great use in their respective roles. I've fallen in love with Klefki's niche, and there are so many slight-variants to its set that it can play a number of roles effectively, with a great typing to boot.

halcyonic November 23rd, 2013 9:17 PM

welcome to the club, t_s. i guess you probably know what dirt happens around here already, so yeah, go enjoy yourself :]

dreyko November 23rd, 2013 9:42 PM

I feel that Goodra will stick around as a special tank, that can fight back, in OU due to Assault Vest.

I kinda feel that Hawlucha might see some play in OU, but it being in the OU tier in not o sure of. It movepool is decent and its stats are not terrible. I can see being more of a supportish role though.

halcyonic November 23rd, 2013 10:08 PM

ive been trying hawlucha on showdown and i must say, its a pretty decent pokemon. here are speed calculations.

Quote:

hawlucha sports an impressive base 118 speed stat:

+2 252 speed adamant hawlucha = 670 speed
+2 252 speed jolly hawlucha = 736 speed
although it has a mere 97 base attack stat, it can further boost its attack with swords dance/hone claws. it has powerful moves such as acrobatics and high jump kick to use and it can easily pass to its teammates the swords dance and unburden boost with baton pass. it also gets encore :>

id say hawlucha is uu at best but we may find usage of hawlucha in ou tho. btw people flying press is bad, horrible, HORRIBAD ;< what a stupid signature move

dreyko November 23rd, 2013 10:17 PM

Yeah, i was looking through X/Y pokemon and saw hawlucha's stats + moves and was all like hey this is better than i thought. =)

Looking at it more and reading your post, i feel that it can easily play the aggressive role or the support role equally as well.

I actually got wrecked by a support hawlucha in a double battle last week.

Nolafus November 23rd, 2013 11:48 PM

I used Hawlucha as a physical sweeper before Pokebank kicked in for Smogon. It was really good with the combination of flying gem + acrobatics + unburden. Not to mention swords dance. In other words, I think it's pretty good. Will it make it to OU? I don't think so, but it's a threat for sure. If you play it right that is.

Once Pokebank opens and the flying gem is introduced again, I'll be testing Hawlucha out again and seeing if it can still kick butt when the hype is over.

Zaroas November 24th, 2013 6:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slayr231 (Post 7951301)
I used Hawlucha as a physical sweeper before Pokebank kicked in for Smogon. It was really good with the combination of flying gem + acrobatics + unburden. Not to mention swords dance. In other words, I think it's pretty good. Will it make it to OU? I don't think so, but it's a threat for sure. If you play it right that is.

Once Pokebank opens and the flying gem is introduced again, I'll be testing Hawlucha out again and seeing if it can still kick butt when the hype is over.

I'm fairly sure that's impossible due to Pokebank being unable to transfer items, though I suppose we'll see if the Flying Gem is introduced in the future. Power Herb + Sky Attack may be a much more gimmicky approach to Unburden abuse but it may be too gimmicky. In regards to Hawlucha itself, it certainly has potential, though I'm not sure if it'll be good enough to make it to OU - One reason being one of the most common threats this generation, Aegislash, resists both of its STABs and can use it to setup.

halcyonic November 24th, 2013 6:44 AM

ahh the gimmicky skyherb set :p it would be forced to rely on high jump kick for a (kinda) reliable stab move unless it decides to run acrobatics on the fourth slot.

also, i never knew pokebank was unable to transfer items :o that sucks a lot :<

zygardian harbinger November 25th, 2013 12:59 PM

Hawlucha's good, granted, but I don't think that it will make OU... I haven't seen it used yet.

.Gamer November 25th, 2013 3:14 PM

- Username: .gamer

- Answer to current topic: (I guess Hawlucha?) It's a mediocre pokemon for OU imo. Cool typing, decent moves, great speed. 97 Attack is very low for OU when you have MegaScizor/Heracross running around. Even without megamons if you play regular OU, you are outclassed by a long list of Pokemon and beat by many.

- Experience in competitive battling: Started in DPP, played lots of DPP, Adv and Gen 1. Used to come 'round these parts religiously a few years ago, then I lost interest in Gen 5 because of non-dedicated leads and team preview. Also I took a pretty extensive break after Mence was banned. Gen 6 seems interesting and is fun so I'm back for now. I'll probably be gone again in January once the new semester starts.

- Favourite Pokemon(s): Ampharos, Absol, Heracross

- Preferred playstyle/core: Generally some type of stall-ish team. I like bulky mons and prediction. In DPP I used stall almost exclusively. Now I guess I'm doing more of a bulky offense until I learn the metagame more, and I'll probably go back to stall. HO teams are dumb.

- Extra: I'm in university right now so I get really busy and forget about mons. :(

Hikamaru November 25th, 2013 6:19 PM

I think Hawlucha is a very interesting Pokemon, but I believe the reason it may not make the cut for OU is primarily due to not being able to make full use of Acrobatics due to the current non-existence of the elemental gems (and items can't be transferred by Pokemon Bank) and the presence of Aegislash, which resists both of its STAB moves.

However, to make up for the lack of gems, it can still use a consumable item to take advantage of Unburden not to mention Acrobatics still has a solid 110 BP when no item is held. Still don't think it'll be OU material though, because it has a few common weaknesses as well.

champagnepapi November 26th, 2013 1:52 AM

- Username: Karpman
- Answer to current topic: Aegislash
- Experience in competitive battling: I started in Early 2011, sort of on and off though, i don't think i've played for more than 6 months without quitting
- Favourite Pokemon(s): Bayleef, Garchomp, Aurorus, Shuckle
- Preferred playstyle/core: Defense
- Extra:

seems kind of silly to have a group for competitive battling in a COMPETITIVE BATTLING FORUM but i digress lol

Ársa November 26th, 2013 3:17 AM

How about changing the topic to promote discussion? Like proposing out-of-the-ordinary or gimmicky sets?

Victreebel @ Salac Berry
Modest
8 HP / 248 SpA / 252 Spe
Gluttony

Substitute
Belch
Solarbeam
Sleep Powder / Weather Ball / Giga Drain

Obviously needs to be run under sun. 8 HP EV's with 31 HP IV's lets Salac activate after a single substitute. In doing that, you also active Belch. A 120 BP STAB move coming off 100 base SpA can't be scoffed at. This set has 4MSS in that it needs Sleep Powder to somewhat guarantee a set-up, yet you then lose coverage. Can also try with Chlorophyll + Petaya (more powerful) however you would need to sub further down without Gluttony.

What about some possible weakness policy sets? (See: solid rock Carracosta / Aggron / Camerupt) Or even ability capsule - is that ever useful? Can we find something that.. may have at least gimmicky use?

champagnepapi November 26th, 2013 3:20 AM

weakness policy aegislash is a pretty badass set

halcyonic November 30th, 2013 6:21 AM

ahh sorry for inactivity guys, so yea, welcome to the club, gamer and karpman! btw tourney is still undecided, so, would you guys like pokebank ou or some other tier? all battles will be conducted on our server on pokemon showdown fyi ;3

Ársa November 30th, 2013 6:32 AM

Pokebank OU is a little bland. Spice things up a bit. Either UU, or something like that 'bingo' tourney that I saw going around somewhere. Use something like this to give people a word / 6 letters to make a team from.

THAT would be fun.

.Gamer November 30th, 2013 6:51 AM

Gen 6 UU doesn't really exist yet. The game is fairly new so the usage stats and metagame as a whole are still kind of ambiguous. I don't predict we'll have UU as a serious tier until about January / February, once OU settles and Pokemon are shuffled around to their respective tiers.

champagnepapi November 30th, 2013 7:04 AM

im all for pokebank ou, might be cool to get some wifi stuff going if everyone has the games

wolf December 2nd, 2013 2:50 PM

Mind if I change or add another topic?

How well did XY succeed in balancing the metagame? Do you think it halted the power creep to some degree? Was the Fairy-type necessary? What do you think XY could have done better in regard to this?

Oh, and I'm making a major official tournament in a week or so for what it's worth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ársa (Post 7951038)
The issue is that Charizard Y takes up a MegaEvo slot that Ninetails doesn't. Considering the weather nerf, I wouldn't be half-surprised if teams started running both Ninetails/Charizard Y to ensure the sun was maintained. Especially because in and of itself, Charizard is one of the bigger beneficiaries of it.

Ahhh yeah, I forgot about Mega Charizard Y taking up a MEvo slot. That's a very major distinction. Even more so considering Mega Houndoom seems very threatening in sun.

Nolafus December 2nd, 2013 2:57 PM

How well did XY succeed in balancing the metagame?

I think it balanced out the game a little bit, but not a whole lot. I mean, they really could have done a better job powering up the fairies. There's only a select few worth using, which means it's going to be easier for teams to counter because there's less variation on what to counter. I think X&Y did their jobs well, but not as well as they could have.

dreyko December 2nd, 2013 3:03 PM

I'm not sure X/Y balanced the meta game all too much, even with the nerfs to weather, moves base power, etc. I still feel the meta is shifted towards aggressive strategies as of now, especially with some of the new megas that are excellent wall breakers.

Faerie was a weird inclusion in my opinion. I can't really pinpoint why, but i dont think it had much to do with the dragon type. While i enjoy new pokemon and types of pokemon, i agree they could have done a better job with the faeries.

Ooka December 2nd, 2013 4:10 PM

Pretty hard question to answer I think, at least at this point. While weather is gone, which definitely over-centralized everything, we got Mega Evolution. Personally though, the metagame is a lot more balanced now, there seems to be counters to pretty much everything, nothing except a couple Megas (That will probably have their items banned soon) run through teams, so I do feel like once Pokebank is out and everything settles down it'll be a much better generation than 5.

PlatinumDude December 2nd, 2013 6:17 PM

Joining:

Username: PlatinumDude
Topic question answer: I'd say that Greninja, Talonflame and Aegislash will become OU staples because Greninja essentially gains STAB on (most of) its moves with Protean, Aegislash runs a multitude of sets to take advantage of Stance Change and Talonflame compensates for its middling Attack with Swords Dance/Choice Band-boosted Flare Blitzes and (priority-induced from Gale Wings) Brave Birds.
Experience: I got into competitive battling since Platinum. I can provide good advice for teams; though I don't battle often, I'm not that bad at it.
Favorite Pokemon: Gallade, Greninja, Excadrill, Lucario
Preferred playstyle: offensive in some way or another.

And as an announcement, Gengarite is banned in OU. How does anyone here feel about this?

halcyonic December 2nd, 2013 10:38 PM

was wondering when you would join welcome aboard i know, sounds crappy platinum.

and xy did balance out the meta imo. pfft, all the others above already covered the reasons why :p and the ban of the gengarite? meh :/

btw wolf looking forward to the tourney :]

.Gamer December 3rd, 2013 5:16 AM

xy is the most balanced metagame i can think of except for maybe rs. Any playstyle is really viable, you can stall, you can run HO, you can go in the middle, you can use "special" teams (tr, weather) but no one strategy is consistently better than any other. Pokemon are stronger, yeah, but everything is stronger so it's even. Fairy type prevents dragsteel metagames like late DPP and the various buffs and nerfs they gave out really give every type an advantage over another. breloom isn't super good anymore (unfortunately), weather teams aren't dominant like gen 5, dragon types aren't the be all end all of teambuilding. It's a much better metagame than people are giving it credit for.

Is it perfect? Absolutely not. Mega Kanga, Mega Lucario and Mega Gengar are all 3 very good pokemon, I do not consider them broken though. They are just very good. The only one I would consider even remotely broken is Lucario, because once it SD's you're basically done, but I still don't think it should be banned. OU right now is really good and really fun to play. I think they just banned MegaGengar though so now we start in motion the series of events that slowly ruins the metagame by banning all the pokemon that are really good and watering down OU to some sort of weird perversion of it' former self. it happens every year. I've become very jaded to the suspect testing process, if you can't tell.

Hikamaru December 3rd, 2013 7:12 AM

I definitely think the 6th Gen metagame is one of the most balanced, players don't have to rely on Steel-types to take Dragon attacks now that we have Fairy-types immune to the Dragon attacks. Some Pokemon may not be as useful as they were previously and weather getting nerfed means weather teams won't be running as rampant as they were in 5th Gen.

As for the banning of Mega Gengar to Ubers, it was something I saw coming. Its type combination is really good on both sides of the spectrum, it's quite fast and strong, plus Shadow Tag causes the foe to get trapped (unless if Ghost-type). On top of that, it has quite a diverse movepool that can take out most threats.

TrainerNico December 3rd, 2013 8:40 AM

Username: TrainerNico
Answer to current topic: Well, I think it's balanced, due to the arrival of Fairy-types Dragon-types have been seriously nerfed(Less Outrage maybe?). And I also think it's also because of some of the new Pokemon that has great bulk like Avalugg and Florges it will be more defense oriented.
Experience in competitive battling: 3 Months
Favourite Pokemon(s): Mega Mawile, Florges, Mega Gardevoir, Rapidash, Cinccino
Preferred playstyle/core: Semi-stall

About Gengarite, it's banned by Smogon rules right? Well I knew it was gonna happen despite that I haven't had a single problem with Mega Gengar. Well since it has base 170 SpA + base 130 + Shadow Tag, it can wreck everything even walls will have a hard time.

zygardian harbinger December 3rd, 2013 12:40 PM

Gengar has been banned, huh? Well, it did have a ridiculous amount of Speed, and its Ghost-type moves received a plus with the removal of Steel's resistance to it. I haven't seen it used often enough for it to make much of an impact, however.

Fairy December 3rd, 2013 12:45 PM

Username:

Strawberry
Answer to current topic:
I like to think that the introduction of Fairy types has successfully balanced the metagame, or at the very east halted the power creep. If nothing, it's broadened the available play styles and allowed for a more diverse playing field so we're not limited to heavy tactical offense to actually win. I see strategy prevailing over sheer force, and I like that. :)
Experience in competitive battling:
Just put me down as zero to none. I haven't battled in quite some time and I was best at team building and rating so even in my prime I wasn't battling nonstop or anything.
Favourite Pokemon(s):
Sylveon, Volcarona
Preferred playstyle/core:
Balanced
Extra:
I'm really only joining this because I want to get back into playing. I've been distant for so long, stopped coming to the server, and just generally lost touch with everything I enjoyed about competitive battling. I'm hoping to recapture that by joining this and having some nice, solid discussions about anything and everything competitive.


@MegaGengar, I was just reading about that, actually. While I haven't seen it in use much, I guess I understand why it was banned. It can set up on anything and with Shadow Tag it's virtually unstoppable.


champagnepapi December 3rd, 2013 1:02 PM

xy is already a lot better than bw2 because, while there is centralization, you don't need to use the best ou pokemon to be competitive, which i think was the case in bw2, especially pre lando ban [as evidenced by any ladder battles]. i think that we could have a really fun metagame on our hands once mega kanga, mega lucario and manaphy are banned, to be honest.

Nolafus December 3rd, 2013 1:07 PM

If it's one thing I realized, it's that hyper-offensive won't cut it anymore. I tried to do a few battles today and my team, which had previously gone nearly undefeated at the beginning of gen 6, was now losing almost every battle. Everyone had the capability to take every attack I threw out, and then proceed to counter. Man, looks like my team is in need for some heavy revisions.

Opposite Day December 3rd, 2013 3:37 PM

@Topic:
I'm not too sure about the size of the impact of faeries nor that the balanced state of things was caused by them, as compared to what certain new threats (Talonflame in particular) and the buff to Ghost/Dark did. The fact that things like Kanga can Sucker Punch almost anything with impunity makes it tougher to take down, Gengar wrecks things that would check it in the past with Shadow Ball (Scizor and the steel-buddies), CBTar can Crunch without being worried that Ferrothorn sets up free spikes on it, et cetera. It does have that "new generation" feel still though, where practically anything goes because you are still trying to figure out what works and what not. Seems like this meta is favouring bulky offense a bit more than it has in the past.

I'd be a lot more excited about faeries if it wasn't for the fact that if you for instance want a Fairy-type with a base speed > 100 you are stuck with Whimsicott and Dedenne, heh.

Pokedra December 3rd, 2013 5:27 PM

Username: Pokedra
Answer to current topic: Nintendo surprised me, they had a massive turd on their hands (BW2) and they managed to make it playable again. Greater balance between offensive and defensive threats, weather nerf, Assault Vest, excellent new additions and the special nukes nerf were all greatly needed. Now you can't use Keldeo in the rain and OHKO with Blissey with Hyper Beam. So yeah X/Y is not perfect and probably not as good as DPPt OU but it finds a decent balance, allows some creativity and is much better than the crap that came before.
Experience in competitive battling: Gen IV-VI, got to #1 on BW2 UU, #25~ on DPPt OU.
Favourite Pokemon(s): Kingdra, Salamence, Heracross, Mespirit, Grovyle
Preferred playstyle/core: Bulky offense

dreyko December 4th, 2013 6:13 PM

Gengarite being banned was probably the right move, as it could get really out of hand quickly.

Thinking more about the balance of this generations metagame, i feel pretty good towards it. Meaning i feel that multiple strategies will be more viable than they were in BW/BW2. I am very excited to see how stall as a strategy will progress/function in this meta.

I still feel that it is a little soon to predict how things will turn out, but then again you can never be 100% sure.

Ársa December 4th, 2013 6:45 PM

The funny thing is, this all came about with people largely using Mega Gengar outside of what it's really good at. Played properly alongside a strong physical threat, it can open up holes to exploit. IMO it's just a kneejerk reaction by Smogon.

Also, from seeing what Pokedra has said, I'm a little glad I stopped playing through Platinum. BW/BW2 sounds like it was a major fusterkluck to me.

halcyonic December 4th, 2013 8:27 PM

Quote:

IMO it's just a kneejerk reaction by Smogon.
rofl

and welcome to the club, trainernico, alexial and pokie :] ugh i felt sooo lazy to add you guys :x

Pokedra December 4th, 2013 9:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ársa (Post 7970626)
The funny thing is, this all came about with people largely using Mega Gengar outside of what it's really good at. Played properly alongside a strong physical threat, it can open up holes to exploit. IMO it's just a kneejerk reaction by Smogon.

Also, from seeing what Pokedra has said, I'm a little glad I stopped playing through Platinum. BW/BW2 sounds like it was a major fusterkluck to me.

BW2 was a metagame for the kiddies to show off who could nuke the other team better. It's no surprise most of the top battlers moved to different tiers where balance could actually be found (UU/RU/NU/even Ubers was better rofl). I mean sure it's cool seeing "It's not very effective! Skarmory lost 100% of it's health" but it gets old rather quickly.

Anyways, the Mega Gengar ban indeed felt like a kneejerk reaction. It's deadly but lack of power and a turn needed to MEvo prevents it crossing the line I feel. I think some people just don't want to deal with it at all hence the ban.

TrainerNico December 5th, 2013 4:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokedra (Post 7970998)
Anyways, the Mega Gengar ban indeed felt like a kneejerk reaction. It's deadly but lack of power and a turn needed to MEvo prevents it crossing the line I feel. I think some people just don't want to deal with it at all hence the ban.

IKR, actually fast Pokemon like Greninja and Jolteon can outspeed Mega Gengar(provided that Gengar has a Modest nature) and if Gengar has a speed boosting Nature, he will outspeed the Pokemon mentioned above but will lack some power, so the two Pokemon could take a hit before retaliating back. That's what I learned as of now, but the Perish trapping set looks deadly TBH.

champagnepapi December 5th, 2013 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ársa (Post 7970626)
The funny thing is, this all came about with people largely using Mega Gengar outside of what it's really good at. Played properly alongside a strong physical threat, it can open up holes to exploit. IMO it's just a kneejerk reaction by Smogon.

Also, from seeing what Pokedra has said, I'm a little glad I stopped playing through Platinum. BW/BW2 sounds like it was a major fusterkluck to me.

that's the exact reason they banned it

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/xy-ou-ban-of-gengarite.3494085/

Ooka December 5th, 2013 2:51 PM

No one really had a problem when Chandelure was banned iirc, so I don't understand why a stronger, faster, better typed version of it is so upsetting. Sure it has to mega evolve, so? With it's power and already high speed, it shouldn't have any trouble picking something off.

Pokedra December 5th, 2013 3:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ooka (Post 7972269)
No one really had a problem when Chandelure was banned iirc, so I don't understand why a stronger, faster, better typed version of it is so upsetting. Sure it has to mega evolve, so? With it's power and already high speed, it shouldn't have any trouble picking something off.

Mega Gengar is not more powerful. Unlike Chandelure it doesn't have higher powered STAB moves to abuse so Lure actually comes off stronger in most cases. Plus Lure can equip itself with LO or Specs, even Scarf if you want more speed. He is faster then Lure but he was banned because he can trap walls, walls are something even Chandelure can outspeed and he packs more of a punch. Gengar-M fails to kill more times then it should. And that turn to MEvo gives your opponent a chance to figure out which Pokemon you want to trap, the loss of Levitate is also significant.

So yeah
- Loss of Levitate / less switching in opportunities
- MEvo turn
- Lack of power

It's brilliant but it's not broken, most of the good players will be able to handle it. The majority just don't want to deal with it.

Nolafus December 5th, 2013 3:39 PM

I have to agree with Smogon with this one. It's not capable of sweeping, but it does get rid of counters very well. Once it mega-evolves, it will have Shadow Tag on the switch-in. There's not much you can do then. If the right player got it, it would be nearly unstoppable. Just trap your sweeper's counter, and you just won the game.

Pokedra December 5th, 2013 3:47 PM

To be honest, if you have one counter to a Pokemon that can otherwise sweep your entire team then you deserve to lose. A well-built team needs to address all threats. Not just with a counter but a check (revenge-killer, phazer) and even good-play. The problem with M-Gengar is that he'll have to MEvo before he can trap, it then falls on you to play well so you don't get trapped.

wolf December 5th, 2013 4:02 PM

Well, Mega Gengar is noticeably more powerful than Scarf Chandelure, and doesn't have to worry about staying in while locked into one move. (Though, Chandelure has stronger secondary STAB moves.)

252 SpA Mega Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 408-480 (156.3 - 183.9%)
252 SpA Chandelure Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 360-426 (137.9 - 163.2%)

Still, Mega Gengar can switch in frequently and trap more Pokemon without worrying about a SR weakness. It also has better typing and a better movepool (Focus Blast, Thunderbolt, Perish Song, etc.). Not to mention it can successfully trap more than half of the metagame. Also, it's a bit ridiculous to say that Mega Gengar lacks power. Of course it can't KO everything easily without super effective moves; it has to pick off threats.

Disclaimer: I personally haven't battled against Mega Gengar, but it seems pretty darn broken on paper. Shadow Tag alone is downright uncompetitive anyway.

Ársa December 5th, 2013 5:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antebellum (Post 7972029)

Yes, I read that when it was released. As I said, I think it's more of a knee jerk reaction by Smogon. It certainly isn't overcentralising (it's not in the top 3 most-used Mega's iirc) and there are a plethora of pokemon this Gen that it cannot switch into and beat 1-on-1.

Yes, when I said used effectively alongside a pokemon that appreciates MeGar taking out its threats, it is a powerful tool. But that can be said about any team with a viable combination. Magnezone could trap and kill all steels that resisted a SD Chomp's sweep. While MeGar does this better, essentially it's the same idea.

Smogon talks about 'access to all these amazing moves'. Have we all of a sudden forgot that pokemon only gets 4 moves? Yes Shadow Tag + Perish song seems OP, but MeGar is frail, and for this to work effectively you need to run a combination of Perish Song + Protect + Sub/Disable + Shadow Ball just to make it work. All of a sudden, MeGar can't hit all these threats (like Mega Kangaskhan, who KO's with EQ now that it no longer has levitate).

champagnepapi December 5th, 2013 5:18 PM

Trapping itself isn't uncompetitive but Magnezone and pursuit are incredibly one dimensional. SD Chomp can get revenge killed if it's against an offensive team, while there's Hippowdon, Gliscor, Quagsire, Tangrowth, Slowbro and more guys to beat it on defense. Magnezone can't trap these Pokemon, but Mega Gengar can. I guess you could make the argument about Gothitelle and it might be better to ban Shadow Tag itself, but Mega Gengar can also get a substitute, and unlike Gothitelle, it's fast as **** and fairly strong. It's not as much of a liability to a team as Gothitelle is, and beats more pokemon, such as Heatran, without having to specialize itself to do so since its moves have fantastic coverage.

Ársa December 5th, 2013 6:09 PM

You make that argument, but again, MeGar and Luke (as example - as they both pair well together) are both easily revenge killed as well. You can't counter one point with an argument that counters your own. Magnezone need not kill Heatran for Chomp, as outside of ScarfTran (which cannot stay in once it has KO'd Maggy) it is outsped and KO'd by Chomp.

MeGar can't handle Hippowdon, Gliscor, or Quagsire either. Also, as I said before, any such moves like Substitute require MeGar to drop coverage, making the pool of pokemon that can take it on that much greater.

.Gamer December 5th, 2013 6:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ársa (Post 7972565)
You make that argument, but again, MeGar and Luke (as example - as they both pair well together) are both easily revenge killed as well. You can't counter one point with an argument that counters your own. Magnezone need not kill Heatran for Chomp, as outside of ScarfTran (which cannot stay in once it has KO'd Maggy) it is outsped and KO'd by Chomp.

MeGar can't handle Hippowdon, Gliscor, or Quagsire either. Also, as I said before, any such moves like Substitute require MeGar to drop coverage, making the pool of pokemon that can take it on that much greater.

how are you going to pair them together when you can only have one megamon per team???

Pokedra December 5th, 2013 7:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by awolffromspace (Post 7972372)
Well, Mega Gengar is noticeably more powerful than Scarf Chandelure, and doesn't have to worry about staying in while locked into one move. (Though, Chandelure has stronger secondary STAB moves.)

252 SpA Mega Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 408-480 (156.3 - 183.9%)
252 SpA Chandelure Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 360-426 (137.9 - 163.2%)

Still, Mega Gengar can switch in frequently and trap more Pokemon without worrying about a SR weakness. It also has better typing and a better movepool (Focus Blast, Thunderbolt, Perish Song, etc.). Not to mention it can successfully trap more than half of the metagame. Also, it's a bit ridiculous to say that Mega Gengar lacks power. Of course it can't KO everything easily without super effective moves; it has to pick off threats.

Disclaimer: I personally haven't battled against Mega Gengar, but it seems pretty darn broken on paper. Shadow Tag alone is downright uncompetitive anyway.

The secondary STAB is very important however, their primary role is to get rid of walls so any extra power helps. Also Lure can opt to run LO if it needs, the loss of speed is noticeable but for killing walls it's not necessary. And having used Gengar-M quite a bit, I can tell with certainty, 170 unboosted SpAtk is actually not as good as you might think. It's a bit weaker then LO Gengar, the difference is like 10% but LO Gengar wasn't exactly a powerhouse to being with. Most walls have to be quite weak before you trap and kill them, unless you can hit them for super-effective damage with STAB moves. It can get in without SR but it lacks Levitate and it's pretty measly defenses don't help either. Some walls it is meant to trap can nail him with STAB moves if you try bring him in to trap if they predict correctly. And the biggest problem remains, getting a turn to Mega evolve, something quite important as it's one less switch in which means less hazard damage, less chance of getting trapped yourself or mispredicting and losing your Gengar.

On paper, it's broken. In practice, it's really, really good but has drawbacks and can be dealt with. Once it shows itself you just need to play more cautiously, a well-played Aegislash and Talonflame can be just as good as a well-played Gengar-M.


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