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Ooka November 22nd, 2013 8:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Azelf (Post 7948347)
I disagree with that. Stall is still effective but its "new stall" really, old school stall hasnt been good since gen 4 sadly.

I feel Defog also kills offense too as offense relies on Stealth Rock to get past many checks. Stall teams can use Defog too to thwart Spikes stacking against them (one of the best ways to wall break) and just wait until offensive hazard setters are dead and just use status to wear you down. It really makes no difference ive found. Also remember stall teams often use bulky Pokemon so can set up multiple times after you kill their Defogger. Which brings me to my next point.

Trappers easily remove Defog users and are easy to utilize on stall. Stall just has to adapt. Honestly if you use a Defog user against one of my teams you WILL go 5-6 down straight from the get go. Wasted slot vs elf stall.

Other than Mega Gengar, what trapper can take out Mandibuzz? D:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Azelf (Post 7948347)
Stall just has to be more aggressive, but its still quite usable.

But then it starts to be semi-stall, not full stall, which is what I was talking about. :3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Azelf (Post 7948347)
Mega Abosol isnt beating Sylveon or Florgees anytime soon. MegaChomp is a little harder to check as it can go mixed but it has 4mss and struggles with bulky grass types like Gourgeist and also Gliscor if it uses SD + 3 Attacks. If it uses a Mix Set i.e ChainChomp then its walled by stuff like Gyarados and Togekiss and all out attackers are stopped by well anything with good mix defenses see: Deoxys-D, Jellicent, Vap, Sp.Def Hippow etc.

+2 252+ Atk Rayquaza Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Umbreon: 249-293 (74.55 - 87.72%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

(Rayquaza has same Attack stat as Mega Absol, Leaf Blade has same power as Play Rough, Changed Umbreon's base stats to match Sylveon)

+2 252+ Atk Rayquaza Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Umbreon: 326-384 (90.55 - 106.66%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

(And this one is with Florges' base stats)

So even if they run max Defense, they can't come in on it very many times.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Azelf (Post 7948347)
Lastly also still relevant trapping move buff were a pretty big boon to stall imo as far as residual damage goes. Even without hazards you'd be surprised how fast say Toxic/Wisp and possibly SS/Hail + Infestation/Wrap/Whirlpool absolutely ruin many pokemon in so few turns its scary lol.

Oh and Quagsire is awesome.

Yeah, that damage does rack up super quick, which is one of the very few buffs that helps stall. Infestation Goodra is nasty imo. And Quagsire is pretty awesome. xD

Dark Azelf November 22nd, 2013 9:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ooka (Post 7948623)
Other than Mega Gengar, what trapper can take out Mandibuzz? D:

There is Specs Gothitelle who is cool for various elimination needs Also if you lack Taunt, Tickle Wobb + Pursuit user ruin it.

+2 252+ Atk Rayquaza Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Umbreon: 249-293 (74.55 - 87.72%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

(Rayquaza has same Attack stat as Mega Absol, Leaf Blade has same power as Play Rough, Changed Umbreon's base stats to match Sylveon)

+2 252+ Atk Rayquaza Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Umbreon: 326-384 (90.55 - 106.66%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

(And this one is with Florges' base stats)

So even if they run max Defense, they can't come in on it very many times.

You should run some def evs on both, anything up to max. :P There is also unaware Clefable, Aromatisse and Togekiss who are both really awesome and have better defense.


Yeah, that damage does rack up super quick, which is one of the very few buffs that helps stall. Infestation Goodra is nasty imo. And Quagsire is pretty awesome. xD

:)


Quote:

elf it was a pain to insert all those icons for you xD

Ooka November 22nd, 2013 9:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Azelf (Post 7948657)
:)

+2 252+ Atk Rayquaza Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Umbreon: 219-258 (60.83 - 71.66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
(Florges)

+2 252+ Atk Rayquaza Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Umbreon: 225-265 (57.1 - 67.25%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
(Sylveon)

+2 252+ Atk Rayquaza Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 212-250 (52.21 - 61.57%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
(Aromatisse)

+2 252+ Atk Rayquaza Leaf Blade vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Togekiss: 178-210 (47.72 - 56.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Unaware Clefable can tank a few hits, so sure it's an option.

252+ Atk Rayquaza Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 106-125 (26.9 - 31.72%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock
(That's Unaware damage, with Magic Guard it's of course doubled)

D:

Anti November 22nd, 2013 9:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ooka (Post 7948623)
But then it starts to be semi-stall, not full stall, which is what I was talking about. :3

Not to get too into terminology here, but "semi-stall" is basically "full stall" adapted to the gen 4 metagame (and beyond). If by full stall you mean a reactive mix of six slow walls, hazards, sandstorm (or hail I guess), spinblocker, spinner, etc., then yeah it's not going to be seen much, just like gen 3 Choice Band teams aren't seen anymore because you can play that style better now--it adapted into bulky offense or hyper offense. People have invented new terms for playstyles that have just adapted in order to stay viable, which isn't evil or anything, but in some full stall and semistall are basically just the same playstyle that look different because of their surroundings.

(Unless semi-stall has become more distinctive since gen four. I suspect it hasn't, but I suppose it could be different. Maybe it's semi-half-sort of-semi-stall now. ;p)

also heyyyy guys

Ooka November 22nd, 2013 9:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anti (Post 7948675)
Not to get too into terminology here, but "semi-stall" is basically "full stall" adapted to the gen 4 metagame (and beyond). If by full stall you mean a reactive mix of six slow walls, hazards, sandstorm (or hail I guess), spinblocker, spinner, etc., then yeah it's not going to be seen much, just like gen 3 Choice Band teams aren't seen anymore because you can play that style better now--it adapted into bulky offense or hyper offense. People have invented new terms for playstyles that have just adapted in order to stay viable, which isn't evil or anything, but in some full stall and semistall are basically just the same playstyle that look different because of their surroundings.

(Unless semi-stall has become more distinctive since gen four. I suspect it hasn't, but I suppose it could be different. Maybe it's semi-half-sort of-semi-stall now. ;p)

also heyyyy guys

"Unlike heavy stall, stall-based balance[semi-stall] does threaten the opponent’s team offensively and pokemon who do not mind residual damage [such as Flygon and most steels] are hard pressed. Stall-based balance[semi-stall] also runs things like CM + Roar Latias or a lategame SD Scizor to clean up."

http://pokemetrics.wordpress.com/2012/08/16/measuring-stall-2/

Also hi Anti, I love you. <3

Anti November 22nd, 2013 9:40 AM

I don't think that contradicts what I said at all, quite the opposite. It's not that there aren't substantive differences but rather that these differences aren't indicative of a different playstyle, and honestly, if semistall is putting ScarfTar over Blissey and a CM/Roar Latias over, say, Tentacruel (these are gen 4 examples), then the team is still operating in more or less the same way in its underlying strategy for winning games.

(Obviously kind of a pointless debate, but that's sort of the fun of it, eh?)

also gurl no way im reading that haha

Ooka November 22nd, 2013 9:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anti (Post 7948690)
I don't think that contradicts what I said at all, quite the opposite. It's not that there aren't substantive differences but rather that these differences aren't indicative of a different playstyle, and honestly, if semistall is putting ScarfTar over Blissey and a CM/Roar Latias over, say, Tentacruel (these are gen 4 examples), then the team is still operating in more or less the same way in its underlying strategy for winning games.

(Obviously kind of a pointless debate, but that's sort of the fun of it, eh?)

also gurl no way im reading that haha

What fun would it be if there were an actual outcome of it? xD

http://pokemetrics.wordpress.com/2012/09/13/revisions-revisions/

The chart there is probably better than the long post I linked to last.

Dark Azelf November 22nd, 2013 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ooka (Post 7948670)
+2 252+ Atk Rayquaza Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Umbreon: 219-258 (60.83 - 71.66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
(Florges)

+2 252+ Atk Rayquaza Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Umbreon: 225-265 (57.1 - 67.25%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
(Sylveon)

+2 252+ Atk Rayquaza Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 212-250 (52.21 - 61.57%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
(Aromatisse)

+2 252+ Atk Rayquaza Leaf Blade vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Togekiss: 178-210 (47.72 - 56.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Unaware Clefable can tank a few hits, so sure it's an option.

252+ Atk Rayquaza Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 106-125 (26.9 - 31.72%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock
(That's Unaware damage, with Magic Guard it's of course doubled)

D:

And if it stays in all return the KO with Moonblast. :P

Ooka November 22nd, 2013 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Azelf (Post 7948776)
And if it stays in all return the KO with Moonblast. :P

After they've been dropped to 30-40% :3 Of course, now we're just theorymoning. xD


So what do people think will start to become staples in future OU and what's just being overhyped right now?

Imo Talonflame is all hype and it's going to drop in usage once people learn how to take it out (If Geodude can own it, there has to be a problem). Aegislash is another one I feel is pretty overhyped.

I feel like once the megas that are uber get out of the way, Mega Absol and Mega Ampharos will get a chance to shine. Both are fun and pretty beastly, Mampharos being like a Goodra on roids, and Mabsol being super fast and cool looking. :3

dreyko November 22nd, 2013 9:17 PM

I agree that Aegislash and Talonflame are all hype.

A few pokemon i feel that will be OU staples are Greninja, Gourgeist, and Charizard Y.

Greninja is very versatile and deadly at the same time. STAB on any move it gets is crazy good (Poptarts) along with its movepool as well.

Gourgeist is simply a tank with a good movepool as well, and i see it as a good functioning member of stall teams.

Charizard Y can potentially take the throne away from Ninetales on drought/sun teams. It also gets solarbeam so that is a major plus in keeping it alive, i feel.

There are probably more, but these three were the ones i could think of off the top of my head.

EDIT: I may be biased on this one, but i feel that Mega Mawile will be popular in OU

halcyonic November 22nd, 2013 9:33 PM

anti, its good to see you joining in on the chat! if you feel like taking part more, please submit your registration form and you'll be added to the members list :]

nice to see a topic change :p like dreyko, i feel that greninja will be popular in ou, thanks to stab on every move and access to great moves such as spikes, hydro pump, u-turn and two forms of priority.

talonflame is meh, aegislash is overhyped and easy to counter, but a great asset to any team if played correctly tho. azumarill is great too, thanks to drumjet being legal now and its additional fairy typing.

btw im also working on a tourney, should be pokebank ubers :p and...
Quote:

side note: looking for someone who can manage the club for four days while im at hongkong. i might drop by a few times if i have the chance to, but meh :p

Ooka November 23rd, 2013 3:13 AM

Agreed with Greninja and Gourgeist definitely, they're extremely solid Pokemon (I heard talk about Greninja getting banned from OU, just because of it's unpredictability, great movepool, Protean and speed+power. I personally doubt it'll happen though).

Hiatus November 23rd, 2013 4:54 AM

- Username: Perdition Haze.
- Experience in competitive battling: Been battling on and off for approximately three years. I'm good at it, but not that good.
- Favourite Pokemon(s): Scizor, Chansey, and Suicune.
- Preferred playstyle/core: Defensive, and sometimes bulky offense.

What's your inspiration and motivation to battle competitively?
To pass time and have fun. I randomly stumbled into Smogon one day; by seeing all the battlers hanging around there, I wanted to join in on the fun. Was pretty terrible when I first started, but with help from few of the members there (as well as couple of my personal friend, who were also into competitive battling), my skills began to get better. Now, I'd say I'm an okay battler. I could easily be outsmarted, though. If you do outsmart me, you'd be winning the match in an instant. d:

halcyonic November 23rd, 2013 5:23 AM

hey perdition haze, nice to see more people joining :) feel free to join in chat, currently our topic is about gen 6 ou staples.

Bidoof FTW23232 November 23rd, 2013 5:54 AM

Username: I don't know
Experience in competitive: A good two months.
Favorite Pokemanz: Mudkip, Whiscash, Azumarill, Bidoof, Mega Kanzlerkhan (kanga), espurr, and magikarp.
Preferred playstyle/core: NU Stall is the best. But i will play anything.

What's your inspiration and motivation to battle competitively?
Well, it all started when I discovered one of my friends still played Platinum. I decided I would make the perfect team in order to beat him, which I did (not telling the team >:D) but... I wanted...more....pokemon... I found this out. (I might tell the full story later) And once I found Showdown, I fell in love. Like, I go on there every freakin day!! But I battle because it's fun and I get to make new friends and amazing people along the way.

halcyonic November 23rd, 2013 5:57 AM

doof, please edit your post with the answer to the topic in the op and you're welcome to join, ty :3

sorry doof, im partially blind without my specs. welcome to the club, so yea, go discuss gen 6 ou pokemon for now :]

Starry Windy November 23rd, 2013 7:32 AM

Username: Wind Heart
What's your inspiration and motivation to battle competitively?
I was hearing an upcoming tournament by one of the club in here, and I decided to check out the place for battling, which is PC Battle Server. On there, I was given the taste of competitive battling for the first time via random battling and won on my first try, that's the reason I joined competitive battling on the first place, and since then, I'm battling competitively because I want to have fun.

Experience in competitive battling: About 9 months ago, but still have lots to learn.
Favourite Pokemon(s): I have so many lists, but among them are Victini, Shaymin, Togekiss, Oshawott, Serperior, Fennekin, Froakie and Scrafty.
Preferred playstyle/core: I'm focusing mostly on offensive playstyle and type advantages, but sometimes I try another ways of battling too.

halcyonic November 23rd, 2013 7:40 AM

omg so many members joining in one day @[email protected] but hey chris, thanks for joining, you get the deal, try to discuss about our current topic which is gen 6 ou staples along the way, kay?

Starry Windy November 23rd, 2013 7:57 AM

I personally think Greninja and Aegislash are among any Pokémon who have the best OU potential. I thought Doublade is already enough before Aegislash is revealed, and I find out that Aegislash does its job surprisingly well, meanwhile as in Greninja, its Protean ability makes the match outcome a bit unpredictable.

And I absolutely welcome the changes of how the Electric-types now immune to paralyzing, and how Grass types immune to spore-based moves, which makes them difficult to take down, and I like how Defog finally clears the obstacles like Stealth Rock on the side of my own, and not just on my opponent's side.

Kanzler November 23rd, 2013 9:09 AM

Username: BlahISuck

What's your inspiration and motivation to battle competitively?

Not much, just to have fun, really. I don't even have teams nowadays since I'm tired of cookies wiping them out and I'm too lazy to make backups. Mostly I watch other people battle, provide input, and do randbats.

Experience in competitive battling: 4-5 months methinks.

Favourite Pokemon(s): Charizard, Arcanine, Houndoom, Blaziken

Preferred playstyle/core: I'm more comfortable playing stall than offensive. One thing I need to lose on is keeping momentum and pressure on my opponent. However, I'm more than willing to make sacrifices and go for deathstrokes if needs require it.

zygardian harbinger November 23rd, 2013 10:55 AM

I can agree with Mega Charizard Y being a staple in OU. It has a superb Special Attack rating, and a good Speed, too. Drought can boost its Fire-type moves, and it learns some of the more powerful ones, like Inferno, although the accuracy is terrible. :/ Heat Wave is a good one, too. I used it in Triples with Blaziken and Delphox and put it in the centre. The damage I was dealing was immense. Not to mention Heat Wave hit all three of the opponent's Pokemon.

wolf November 23rd, 2013 12:04 PM

I think it'll be interesting to see if Ninetales will remain OU after the metagame has matured a bit. It's pretty much outclassed by Mega Charizard Y aside from being able to use Hypnosis and Nasty Plot as well as not being 4x weak to Stealth Rock. Drought in UU with Victini, Chandelure, and the like sounds pretty nasty, so even if it does drop to UU, it'll probably get banned.

Out of the new Pokemon, I'd say Aegislash, Talonflame, Greninja, Goodra, Gourgeist-H, Sylveon or Florges, and Klefki will end up in OU, in order of popularity. I don't think any of them are particularly over-hyped. Each of them seem to have earned pretty solid positions in OU. On the other hand, Noivern, Malamar, Tyrantrum, Zygarde, Avalugg, Dragalge, etc. all seem pretty mediocre and I don't expect them to stay popular for long. As for MEvos, I foresee Gengarite getting banned soon, while Lucario, Mawile, Charizard, Blastoise, and Kangaskhan ending up as the most popular. Gardevoir, Absol, Ampharos, Aggron, and Venusaur seem to have a chance, but I worry that the other MEvos will steal their thunder. The last three of those take a big hit by not being able to use Leftovers. Absol in particular reminds me of a better Weavile, but it has pretty major problems (has difficulty switching in and seems difficult to MEvolve).

Redingard November 23rd, 2013 12:44 PM

- Username: Redingard

- Answer to current topic: I've seen quitew a few Tyranitars sweeping my team just after one Dragon Dance. Sure, it's weakness to fighting is pretty big, but it can outspeed most OU after just one Dragon Dance. Mega Evolutions don't seem to be big on him, though. I've never fought against one and survived, so its place in OU seems pretty well deserved and won't be knocked down any time soon.

- Experience in competitive battling: I started about two weeks ago, around when I started breeding. I'm pretty bad right now and probably have invalid opinions, but that's what PC is for, amirite?

- Favourite Pokemon(s): Electivire, Barbaracle, Garchomp, Mega Charizard X, Gliscor

- Preferred playstyle/core: Full-out physical sweeping. Hoping to incorporate some Def/Sp. Def walls.

Nolafus November 23rd, 2013 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redingard
I started about two weeks ago, around when I started breeding. I'm pretty bad right now and probably have invalid opinions, but that's what PC is for, amirite?

Exactly! :D

I've learned a lot on this site. It's nice to hear all the different opinions. I recently just got back into battling for gen 6 and I realized just how much I'm missing out. I've been fairing pretty well, but it's going to take a while for me to get back to my former glory (which wasn't that high in the first place XD ).

I'm starting to notice pokemon that were very popular at first such as Talonflame and Klefki are now almost non-existent. Well, I haven't faced them yet since gen 6 on Showdown was first introduced.

Zaroas November 23rd, 2013 4:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolflare (Post 7950312)
Out of the new Pokemon, I'd say Aegislash, Talonflame, Greninja, Goodra, Gourgeist-H, Sylveon or Florges, and Klefki will end up in OU, in order of popularity. I don't think any of them are particularly over-hyped. Each of them seem to have earned pretty solid positions in OU.

I've seen a Gourgeist only once after playing on Showdown for the past month or so. Trevenant is a lot more common from my experience, though I'm not sure which would be better overall - Trevenant has better abilities with Natural Cure and Harvest, but Gourgeist has better defensive stats. It may come down to personal preference in the end (I use Trevenant a lot), but we'll see. Sylveon and Florges may or may not be OU - Again, I haven't seen them as much due to the presence of Togekiss and Azumarill. Sylveon and Florges are very similar Pokemon, so wherever one goes the other one will likely follow. I could see them in lower OU or BL.


Quote:

I'm starting to notice pokemon that were very popular at first such as Talonflame and Klefki are now almost non-existent. Well, I haven't faced them yet since gen 6 on Showdown was first introduced.
I've seen Talonflame just as much as I did when the metagame first started out but Klefki I've been seeing less and less of. I'm not sure why that is - Maybe other Prankster users/utility Pokemon outclass some sets. For example, Deoxys-D and Deoxys-S are much better at setting down hazards and dual screens.

One Pokemon I've been seeing less of is the Kings Shield/SD/Shadow Sneak/Sacred Sword Aegislash set. Aegislash itself hasn't seemed to take a hit, but I've encountered more mixed versions of it to surprise foes like Skarmory that would normally wall it or phase it out.


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