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-   -   Smogon and the Pokemon Metagame (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=320533)

Nah March 10th, 2014 2:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iAzire (Post 8137196)
Every team carries counters to other Pokémon. This is my point with Blaziken. You build your team to counter threats. Blaziken is not uncountable, at least not nearly as bad as Mega Kangaskhan or Mega Gengar.

You can't counter everything.
Quote:

I understand that Singles and Doubles are different play styles but why wouldn't Hail+Snow Cloak+Bright Powder work for an Evasion build? Other Pokémon could use other skills, I don't think the aggressive style means you can't use it. Combine that Evasion with STAB 100% accurate Blizzard? Froslass also has STAB Shadow Ball. It could be done.
I don't understand what you're getting at here. Nobody here is saying that evasion tactics can't work.
Quote:

My purpose for bringing up VGC and the usage of Pokémon and Evasion is the Pokémon are being used while evasion isn't except in rare cases. Of course anything could pop up in VGC so it's a moot point.
Most people understand that evasion is kinda broken, so they refrain from using evasion tactics. That's why evasion isn't that common in VGC.
Quote:

On the point of losing your Haze user, what happens if you lose your spinner/defogger? You can end up severely crippled either way based on your team.
This I can agree with you on. I'm not fond of the way entry hazards (especially Stealth Rock) overcentralize the metagame.
Quote:

Simply put, if people use moves that increase accuracy, why not decrease? The entire game is luck based, why remove something that is luck based? It doesn't make sense.
Competitive battling should be based more on skill than luck. Luck is an unavoidable part of anything, but that doesn't mean we have to turn Pokemon battles into Russian Roulette.

And the thing is, does the evasion clause (and Smogon's other bans) ruin your day? Does it ruin the metagame? Smogon doesn't ban things nilly-willy; a lot of thought and testing is put into their bans. They do post about why they ban things:

Blaziken: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/xy-ou-ban-of-blaziken-and-deoxys-n.3492497/
Mega Kangaskhan: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/kangaskhanite-is-now-banned-to-ubers.3495351/

If they did just ban things left and right, Keldeo would've made Ubers a long time ago.

The thing I have never understood about people who complain about Smogon and make it out to be the devil is that nobody is forced to play by Smogon's rules. Everyone who plays by Smogon's rules does so willingly. If you don't like Smogon's rules, then go play in VGC, Battle Spot or with friends/Passerbys or the Battle Maison.

One other thing: Haze is not a cure-all to evasion. Haze only eliminates stat boosts; evasion gained by items and abilities is unaffected by Haze.

Griffinbane March 10th, 2014 2:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cordova.Erick (Post 8137212)
I Agree With You , But The Thing Is That About Eighty Five Percent Of The People Play By Smogon Rules . When There's A VGC Tournament Hosted By The Creators Of The Pokemon Game , People Will Use All Those "OU" Pokemon In There & Battle With Them . The Thing That They Don't Know Is That In A VGC Battle You Can Use Minimize & Make A Lot Of Your Opponents Pokemon Fall Asleep & Smogon People Get Mad , But What They Don't Realize Is The Rules Of The VGC Competition.

Uhm. Time to clear a misconception. VGC tournaments are not set by the creators of the game. For the most part, once the developers finish the game, they have nothing to do with it unless something breaks and they have to fix it. No, the people who organizes the tournaments are ordinary people with day jobs who do a lot of tournament hosting on their free time. Then it's further organized to include people who makes organize the tournament organizers and help them plan so everything isn't clustered together in one location. Then it's further organized to include people who makes things official and puts it up on the official site and really helps get the word out. And all these people are all part of The Pokemon Company International. Except the tournament organizers are 100% volunteer, and they don't get paid for their work. And all of these guys are certainly not creators of Pokemon.

Derp.

Onicon March 10th, 2014 3:27 PM

One of the few realizations the complainer eventually will or will not make is that Smogon adjust their rules to fit their image of a preferable metagame, which probably differs from the vision the complainer at hand had in mind, and that they don't give a damn about what this one thinks. Complaining about them changing the rules is in our eyes misplaced when the actual force behind them is not Smogon but another party that has chosen to adhere to them. Similarly, an internet-savvy person should not automatically expect Smogon rules on anything but Smogon itself. This kind of assumption is always a big source for drama on sites like GameFAQs who does not have Smogon rules. From our experience, most Smogon regulars actually are well-versed with the concept of having different rulesets, mostly because it is inherent in the whole Smogon idea. They give us a good challenge most time we battle in VGC.

As for the metagame they aspire to create, it comes down to preference. Smogon prefers a well balanced enviroment where many playstyles and Pokemon are viable as possible. The power discrepancy between many mons in the game led to the creation of character tiers.
Now, as said, that is how they prefer a metagame, although there are many(?) people who think that certain powerful and centralizing forces should be allowed to remain in the standard play because it narrows down the number of viable playstyles and tightens the metagame, which is a valid opinion. We personally prefer a decentralized metagame because we think it leads to more varied matchups and more interesting games.

As for the banning of several Megas that seems to upset people: We have saw that as inevitable since the official statement that they are practically lengendaries (read: 'Über'). Even if they are checkable, it may or may not prevent them from being centralizing. A good example is the 4th gen Sand Veil Garchomp in Singles that forced most high level teams to consist of Garchomp, two Garchomp checks, two Garchomp check counters and a filler. As said, it is a valid opinion to like that kind of metagame but we are probably in the minority when we find it slightly monotonous.

Also, we wonder how the misconception about VGC being held by Game Freak come to exist. They are responsible for the game itself while the VGC rules are provided by The Pokémon Company.

Cordova.Erick March 10th, 2014 4:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griffinbane (Post 8137329)
Uhm. Time to clear a misconception. VGC tournaments are not set by the creators of the game. For the most part, once the developers finish the game, they have nothing to do with it unless something breaks and they have to fix it. No, the people who organizes the tournaments are ordinary people with day jobs who do a lot of tournament hosting on their free time. Then it's further organized to include people who makes organize the tournament organizers and help them plan so everything isn't clustered together in one location. Then it's further organized to include people who makes things official and puts it up on the official site and really helps get the word out. And all these people are all part of The Pokemon Company International. Except the tournament organizers are 100% volunteer, and they don't get paid for their work. And all of these guys are certainly not creators of Pokemon.

Derp.

Even Though They're Not The Creators , They Still Play A Role In The Pokemon Game Because The Tournamenta Are In The Game , Except When Someone Else That Is Not Part Of The Company Hosts It Then It Will Be Outside (Local). Anyways , The Thing Is About Smogon , Not The Creators Of The Tournaments & Such .

Griffinbane March 10th, 2014 5:24 PM

Except that Game Freak (the creators) have nothing to do with The Pokemon Company International (the organizers). You're still combining the two into one even though they have zero, zip, zilch, nada to do with each other.

As for Smogon, in the end, every player can play by their rules or choose to play according to another set of rules. I don't really see the point about arguing against what Smogon does when you can just skip their rules altogether and play according to a different set. After all, none of the Battle Spot styles support Smogon.

Don't like Smogon? Play VGC or Battle Spot. Singles Smogon is the dominant battle form on this forum and most tournaments are in that format. If you don't like it, you can always create your own tournament (and see it die without support). Hell, if you play on Showdown, there's like... 4 other formats you can play.

Those guys spend weeks, months even, testing out teams and pushing numbers. All props to them. They're a dedicated community, and they really do strive to make the game as fair as possible.

/shrug

Cordova.Erick March 10th, 2014 7:02 PM

I Agree With You . But The Thing Is , Smogon Make These Tiers To Make The Game Enjoyable & All While Pokémon In VGC Match Tells You , "You Like That Pokémon ? Cool , Use It ?" Smogon Is Not The Correct Way To Play Pokémon . I See Many Twelve Year Old Kids Getting Yelled At For Using Minimize Driblim When They Are Really Playing Under VGC Rules . I Understand We Can Play As For Fun , But When It Comes To World Wide Tournaments , You HAVE To Use Anything You Can To Win Unless The Rules Say So.

Griffinbane March 10th, 2014 7:22 PM

Pffffft. Nowhere does it say anywhere in VGC that Smogon is not the correct way of playing. Fact is, a player should make themselves familiar with the rules before joining any tournament. There's been plenty of players who've been kicked out of a regional for bringing in an illegal team. In fact, it's easier to last-minute convert a team from VGC to singles format. VGC is the OFFICIAL LIVE COMPETITION format. So what? That doesn't mean you're banned from playing singles, or making and agreeing on rules ahead of time.

If a 12-year-old wants to become competitive, he or she had better learn to update themselves with the rules before joining any tournament. Pfft, I know parents who fix their kids' teams so that the kids can compete. Someone has to take responsibility. Sorry, but if a person decides to go into a tournament blind to the rules, they deserve to lose or get DQ'd. Only one situation exists where a person may be given the pass and that's if they literally could not go check the rules. And in that case, shouldn't life take priority anyway?

Necrum March 10th, 2014 7:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cordova.Erick (Post 8137780)
I Agree With You . But The Thing Is , Smogon Make These Tiers To Make The Game Enjoyable & All While Pokémon In VGC Match Tells You , "You Like That Pokémon ? Cool , Use It ?" Smogon Is Not The Correct Way To Play Pokémon . I See Many Twelve Year Old Kids Getting Yelled At For Using Minimize Driblim When They Are Really Playing Under VGC Rules . I Understand We Can Play As For Fun , But When It Comes To World Wide Tournaments , You HAVE To Use Anything You Can To Win Unless The Rules Say So.

It all comes down to what the players in question agree to. If both players aren't on the same page at the beginning then someone is gonna be mad. Like the other day I went into a battle with a friend but he invited me to doubles when my team is built for singles. I was a little upset and wound up losing because my team wasn't ready for it. Smogon is a self imposed set of rules and in no way pretends to be the official play style.

Also, if we're gonna talk about what VGC rules are, VGC is all doubles only. And if all we did was have double battles life would suck, okay?

Work on typing without caps on every word while you're at it, unless you're trying to annoy the entire forum.

Cordova.Erick March 10th, 2014 8:46 PM

I Am Saying Why Do So Many People Act Like Smogon's Say Is The Ultimate Word . & No, They Do Not Make The Best Decisions, Why Do People Think That? People Are Just Following Them & Thinking They Are The Representative To Pokemon Or Something . Just Say In Proper Battling , Several Legendary's Cannot Be Used. Other Than That, You Need To Use Logic & Decide How To Build A Powerful Team Of Non-Legendary's . You Spend Long Time Training A Pokemon To Level Hundred & Then It's Banned Just Because It Can Sweep Someone's Team ? There Is No Pokemon That Has No Weakness In Now In Gen 6. So If You're Loosing Then It's Because You Don't Have A Balanced Team , Don't Blame It One The Trainer Or The Pokemon That Sweeped You.. Blame It On Yourself . I don't see the real point of this so called "competitive battling"... I mean just say to people go build yourself a team as long you don't use any legendary's then it's fine. If You Build A Team Filled With Weak Pokemon , Then You Should Not Complain If You Get Swept . There Are Some Non-Legendaries With Great Abilities Such As Blaziken But It Can Be Countered If You Have A Proper Balance Team . What You Don't Do Is Turn Around & Ban Blaziken . There Is Nothing Competitive About That .

~ By The Way , This Is The Way I Type , Nobody Is Trying To Annoy Other People . I'm Just Known For Typing The Begginning Every Word With A Capital Letter . ;)

Flushed March 10th, 2014 9:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cordova.Erick (Post 8137939)
I Am Saying Why Do So Many People Act Like Smogon's Say Is The Ultimate Word . & No, They Do Not Make The Best Decisions, Why Do People Think That? People Are Just Following Them & Thinking They Are The Representative To Pokemon Or Something .

Smogon knows what they're doing. They do extensive testing, and by they I don't mean it's one guy doing the whole thing. It's a community that exists to do this sort of thing. It's been said many times on this thread. Why do people complain about Smogon when you're not forced to abide by their rules? If someone's shoving Smogon down your throat then ignore them. Now saying that is going to make everything I say look incredibly hypocritical but, the second part of this post merely defends Smogon's ban decisions; I'm not forcing you to adhere to them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cordova.Erick (Post 8137939)
There Is No Pokemon That Has No Weakness In Now In Gen 6. So If You're Loosing Then It's Because You Don't Have A Balanced Team , Don't Blame It One The Trainer Or The Pokemon That Sweeped You.. Blame It On Yourself . I don't see the real point of this so called "competitive battling"... I mean just say to people go build yourself a team as long you don't use any legendary's then it's fine. If You Build A Team Filled With Weak Pokemon , Then You Should Not Complain If You Get Swept . There Are Some Non-Legendaries With Great Abilities Such As Blaziken But It Can Be Countered If You Have A Proper Balance Team . What You Don't Do Is Turn Around & Ban Blaziken . There Is Nothing Competitive About That.

Actual weaknesses are kind of irrelevant to the argument. Type advantage does not make one a counter. Azire, you said Blaziken is weak to common attacking types. But if it High Jump Kicks you to the graveyard, you won't even have time to launch an attack. And the point of bans are these Pokemon are overpowered. A balanced team can easily be swept by Blaziken. Quoted from Zekrom's link: "Blaziken can either sweep a significant portion of the metagame late-game with just a Speed Boost or sweep a significant portion of the metagame at any point in a battle with a Speed Boost and Swords Dance." The whole point is that you won't have to sacrifice a slot and the synergy of your team for an obscure counter. And you can't just prepare yourself for one threat, might as well carry a counter for each banned Pokemon while you're at it. The same thing goes for evasion. Sure you can have a balanced team, but can your team stop Kang, Lucario, Blaziken, Minimize and every other imaginable thing at the same time? No.


For something like singles do I think Smogon is in the right? Yes. Do I think people playing singles should adhere to their rules? Sure. I think it makes things fair and more fun. But no one's making you do anything, if you don't agree with Smogon, then don't play by their rules.

Azire March 10th, 2014 10:05 PM

You can say don't play by their rules but most online battling I've found goes by Smogon rules. It's not as easy to escape as you make it sound.

Perhaps my lack of problems with most Pokémon is the fact I almost always have a Ditto on my team. It's my favorite Pokémon as you can tell from my picture and it just so happens to be great competitively.

Flushed March 10th, 2014 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azire (Post 8138003)
You can say don't play by their rules but most online battling I've found goes by Smogon rules. It's not as easy to escape as you make it sound.

Perhaps my lack of problems with most Pokémon is the fact I almost always have a Ditto on my team. It's my favorite Pokémon as you can tell from my picture and it just so happens to be great competitively.

Well just because your opponent plays by Smogon rules doesn't mean you have to. They may chastise you, but it's not really their place to, especially if it's Battle Spot.

Nah March 11th, 2014 6:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azire (Post 8138003)
You can say don't play by their rules but most online battling I've found goes by Smogon rules. It's not as easy to escape as you make it sound.

Perhaps my lack of problems with most Pokémon is the fact I almost always have a Ditto on my team. It's my favorite Pokémon as you can tell from my picture and it just so happens to be great competitively.

The only place that uses and enforces Smogon's rules is Pokemon Showdown (and by extension, PC's battle server). No other place I know of makes you play by Smogon's rules. If you're playing somewhere else and someone gets mad at you for not following Smogon's rules, tell 'em to ♥♥♥♥ off.

Sandslash Fan March 11th, 2014 6:17 AM

I haven't played on a Smogon server yet, but I did have a curiosity about the logic applied. Evasion isn't allowed (Double Team, Minimize.... Sand Veil), since they don't want to pigeon-hole people into needing moves that always hit (Shock Wave, Clear Smog, Swift, etc), but everyone says to have a Pokemon that can Rapid Spin on your team.

Entry hazards are ok, but Heaven forbid that you have a Pokemon with Keen Eye or an auto-hit move; Heck even Roar phazes without fail now :)

Nah March 11th, 2014 6:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superstrength79 (Post 8138332)
I haven't played on a Smogon server yet, but I did have a curiosity about the logic applied. Evasion isn't allowed (Double Team, Minimize.... Sand Veil), since they don't want to pigeon-hole people into needing moves that always hit (Shock Wave, Clear Smog, Swift, etc), but everyone says to have a Pokemon that can Rapid Spin on your team.

Entry hazards are ok, but Heaven forbid that you have a Pokemon with Keen Eye or an auto-hit move; Heck even Roar phazes without fail now :)

Yeah...that's the one main issue I have with the metagame (this gen, anyway): entry hazards. They overcentralize the metagame. I really hope that sometime in the future Game Freak will nerf entry hazards...but that's unlikely. Game Freak doesn't care much about the meta.

Sandslash Fan March 11th, 2014 7:16 AM

They nerfed weather already... maybe that means they'll take a look at entry hazards?

I didn't even know that you could "soak up" Toxic Spikes with a Poison-type Pokemon until I watched a Youtube WIFI battle. Maybe they could do something similar with Stealth Rocks... or at least give it diminishing returns.

Cordova.Erick March 11th, 2014 8:20 AM

My Point Is , People Rage Quit Because "Supposedly" We Don't Follow The "Smogon Rule" In Battle Spot . I Understand Having A Battle With Friends & All That , There's No Competition , & Maybe That's Where Smogon Is Trying To Get , Not In Big Tournaments Like VGC & People Yell At The Host Of The Tournament Only Because His Or Her Opponent Used A Drizzle + Swift Swim Pokemon Or A Move Called "Minimize" Or "Double Team" But What They Don't Realize Is That They're Not Playing By Smogon Rules . Like About Half Of The Megas Are Banned ? What Is That ? They Didn't Banned Kangaskhan In The Past Gens. I Don't Know Why They Would Ban It Now . Yes , Is Powerful Now , But Pokemon Did That For A Reason & They Know They Can Be Countered Not Just By Super Effective Moves , But Also Pokemon Like Gengar Once Kagaskhan Mega Evolves Most Of Kangaskhan Moves Will Be Immune To Gengar & Gengar Can Take Advantage Of That.

Nah March 11th, 2014 8:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cordova.Erick (Post 8138456)
My Point Is , People Rage Quit Because "Supposedly" We Don't Follow The "Smogon Rule" In Battle Spot . I Understand Having A Battle With Friends & All That , There's No Competition , & Maybe That's Where Smogon Is Trying To Get , Not In Big Tournaments Like VGC & People Yell At The Host Of The Tournament Only Because His Or Her Opponent Used A Drizzle + Swift Swim Pokemon Or A Move Called "Minimize" Or "Double Team" But What They Don't Realize Is That They're Not Playing By Smogon Rules .

Like I said before, if someone gets mad at someone for not following Smogon's rules in a place that does not use Smogon's rules, they should ♥♥♥♥ off.

Quote:

Like About Half Of The Megas Are Banned ? What Is That ?
Only 4 megas are banned: Kangaskhan, Blaziken, Lucario, and Gengar. And they gave reasons as to why they were banned:
Blaziken: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/xy-ou-ban-of-blaziken-and-deoxys-n.3492497/
Kangaskhan: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/kangaskhanite-is-now-banned-to-ubers.3495351/
Gengar: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/xy-ou-ban-of-gengarite.3494085/

I suggest you read these.

Quote:

They Didn't Banned Kangaskhan In The Past Gens. I Don't Know Why They Would Ban It Now .
Kangaskhan was never banned in past gens becuase there was no reason to ban it. Regular Kangaskhan is not a terribly good Pokemon (and only Mega Kangsakhan is banned, not regular Kanga). Now there is reason to ban it, which the link above explains.

Quote:

Yes , Is Powerful Now , But Pokemon Did That For A Reason & They Know They Can Be Countered Not Just By Super Effective Moves , But Also Pokemon Like Gengar Once Kagaskhan Mega Evolves Most Of Kangaskhan Moves Will Be Immune To Gengar & Gengar Can Take Advantage Of That.
See above Mega Kanga link. Also, Sucker Punch wrecks Gengar.

NRG March 11th, 2014 8:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cordova.Erick (Post 8138456)
They Didn't Banned Kangaskhan In The Past Gens. I Don't Know Why They Would Ban It Now . Yes , Is Powerful Now , But Pokemon Did That For A Reason & They Know They Can Be Countered Not Just By Super Effective Moves , But Also Pokemon Like Gengar Once Kagaskhan Mega Evolves Most Of Kangaskhan Moves Will Be Immune To Gengar & Gengar Can Take Advantage Of That.

Every mega kangaskhan runs sucker punch. It's probably the most PP up'd move in 6th gen LOL

All you have to do on battlespot is send kang out first, mega and spam sucker punch, unless they spot this OP tactic at the team selection screen and send out a counter first turn.

Griffinbane March 11th, 2014 9:03 AM

If people decide to yell at a tournament host, the tournament host can kick that person out. Did you hear about that 60 year old guy who got expelled by the tournament organizer and picked up by the cops because he was trash talking a kid?

And let me repeat myself again: If you are any kind of a competitive player, you do NOT go into a tournament without checking the rules first. You wanna rage quit? Go for it. A point for your opponent, and none for you.

I'm not exactly sure what point you're trying to make. Are you trying to convince everyone to play by battle spot or VGC rules just because it's programmed into the game? You do realize that there is a free battle option on battle spot where anything goes, right? Are you trying to convince everyone on PC to play by your (aka not Smogon's) rules? What exactly are you trying to prove? Because all I'm seeing from you is "everyone needs to play battle spot rules because Smogon is unfair" with absolutely nothing to back it up. Your examples are terrible and whoever it is you're describing is not a responsible competitive player in any imagination.

As for casual players, battle spot will very likely put them off, because the rated battles are where competitive players practice while the free battles are chock-full of level 100 legendaries like Mewtwo and company. Too bad for them, go play in maison.

Cordova.Erick March 11th, 2014 9:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Chance Without Zekrom (Post 8138480)
Like I said before, if someone gets mad at someone for not following Smogon's rules in a place that does not use Smogon's rules, they should ♥♥♥♥ off

Well , Yess . I Agree With You On That . The Thing That Bothers Me Is That Everywhere I Go & Battle , People Just Use Smogon Pokemon & Their Rules . I Understand Smogon's Work Trying To Test Out Teams & Such To Make The Game Enjoyable . But Instead , They're Making The Game Too Restricted & A Lot Of People Follow It . People Looking For OU Battles ? Okayy , I Understand That I Can Battle OU Or Whatever Without Minimize & All That . But In A Tournament , I'm On A Different Level . I Just Don't Like People Following & Worshiping Their Rules . Some People Call Themselves "Top Battlers" But What They Don't Realize In Only In Their "Smogon Community" , Not World Wide :/

Onicon March 11th, 2014 10:31 AM

If you use 'level' as a measurement, you will imply that Smogon is less competitive that VGC. We disagree: Despite VGC and Smogon tiers being different formats they are still both competitive in nature. It will helps if you understand the concept of metagaming. In short, you approach a battle in the sense that you can outline the possibilities your opponent has beyond what you see on the screen. This kind of thinking can be applied to multiple formats despite their difference. A good player will understand how the different rules shape the circumstance of the actions, thus a good Smogon palyer will likely do pretty well in VGC, vice versa.

Though not liking people just because they play by different rules is just silly.

Layell March 11th, 2014 11:27 AM

Cordova you're using some flimsy logic here, and not to mention your capitalization of every word doesn't make me want to read more. I'll try to hit some of your arguments.

"When There's A VGC Tournament Hosted By The Creators Of The Pokemon Game , People Will Use All Those "OU" Pokemon In There"

The Pokemon are OU are there because they are good, that is why they are overused, they are versatile, and can respond to a variety of threats. There are however some mons that do not overlap. While the makeup of Pokemon may be similar the strategies and item combinations of OU and VGC couldn't be further apart, because there are different strategies in play that players need to respond to in both formats.

"In VGC Match Tells You , "You Like That Pokémon ? Cool , Use It ?" Smogon Is Not The Correct Way To Play Pokémon ."

Both formats have their own ban lists, this years VGC has a limit on Pokemon only found in Kalos. So no VGC isn't more fair. Smogon is ranked in viability, so that every Pokemon has its own tier. Smogon is more than OU, every tier has its own playerbase.

Banlists are ok, they help keep variety and health in the game, or at least shake things up. Based on current usage stats with 40% of all VGC teams using Rotom-W and Garchomp compared to 27% and 15% in OU you'd be hard pressed to convince me that reasonable bans don't create a more fun game.

Cordova.Erick March 11th, 2014 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onicon (Post 8138594)
If you use 'level' as a measurement, you will imply that Smogon is less competitive that VGC. We disagree: Despite VGC and Smogon tiers being different formats they are still both competitive in nature. It will helps if you understand the concept of metagaming. In short, you approach a battle in the sense that you can outline the possibilities your opponent has beyond what you see on the screen. This kind of thinking can be applied to multiple formats despite their difference. A good player will understand how the different rules shape the circumstance of the actions, thus a good Smogon palyer will likely do pretty well in VGC, vice versa.

Though not liking people just because they play by different rules is just silly.

It's Not That I Really Don't Like Them . It's Just Why Use Smogon Pokemon In VGC Battles ? Smogon & VGC Are Two Different Styles To Play The Game . There's No Need To Bring Pokemon From Smogon To VGC Matches When You See People Getting Mad For Using "Banned" Pokemon . Note That Pokemon Wasn't Made For That Competitive Environment . Smogon Rules Have No Application In VGC . You Can Counter Double Team With Aerial Ace Or Faint Attack , Never Misses .

Cordova.Erick March 11th, 2014 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Layell (Post 8138659)
Cordova you're using some flimsy logic here, and not to mention your capitalization of every word doesn't make me want to read more. I'll try to hit some of your arguments.

Sorry , I'm Just Used To Capitalize The First Letter Of A Word . :/


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