![]() |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
And the thing is, does the evasion clause (and Smogon's other bans) ruin your day? Does it ruin the metagame? Smogon doesn't ban things nilly-willy; a lot of thought and testing is put into their bans. They do post about why they ban things: Blaziken: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/xy-ou-ban-of-blaziken-and-deoxys-n.3492497/ Mega Kangaskhan: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/kangaskhanite-is-now-banned-to-ubers.3495351/ If they did just ban things left and right, Keldeo would've made Ubers a long time ago. The thing I have never understood about people who complain about Smogon and make it out to be the devil is that nobody is forced to play by Smogon's rules. Everyone who plays by Smogon's rules does so willingly. If you don't like Smogon's rules, then go play in VGC, Battle Spot or with friends/Passerbys or the Battle Maison. One other thing: Haze is not a cure-all to evasion. Haze only eliminates stat boosts; evasion gained by items and abilities is unaffected by Haze. |
Quote:
Derp. |
One of the few realizations the complainer eventually will or will not make is that Smogon adjust their rules to fit their image of a preferable metagame, which probably differs from the vision the complainer at hand had in mind, and that they don't give a damn about what this one thinks. Complaining about them changing the rules is in our eyes misplaced when the actual force behind them is not Smogon but another party that has chosen to adhere to them. Similarly, an internet-savvy person should not automatically expect Smogon rules on anything but Smogon itself. This kind of assumption is always a big source for drama on sites like GameFAQs who does not have Smogon rules. From our experience, most Smogon regulars actually are well-versed with the concept of having different rulesets, mostly because it is inherent in the whole Smogon idea. They give us a good challenge most time we battle in VGC.
As for the metagame they aspire to create, it comes down to preference. Smogon prefers a well balanced enviroment where many playstyles and Pokemon are viable as possible. The power discrepancy between many mons in the game led to the creation of character tiers. Now, as said, that is how they prefer a metagame, although there are many(?) people who think that certain powerful and centralizing forces should be allowed to remain in the standard play because it narrows down the number of viable playstyles and tightens the metagame, which is a valid opinion. We personally prefer a decentralized metagame because we think it leads to more varied matchups and more interesting games. As for the banning of several Megas that seems to upset people: We have saw that as inevitable since the official statement that they are practically lengendaries (read: 'Über'). Even if they are checkable, it may or may not prevent them from being centralizing. A good example is the 4th gen Sand Veil Garchomp in Singles that forced most high level teams to consist of Garchomp, two Garchomp checks, two Garchomp check counters and a filler. As said, it is a valid opinion to like that kind of metagame but we are probably in the minority when we find it slightly monotonous. Also, we wonder how the misconception about VGC being held by Game Freak come to exist. They are responsible for the game itself while the VGC rules are provided by The Pokémon Company. |
Quote:
|
Except that Game Freak (the creators) have nothing to do with The Pokemon Company International (the organizers). You're still combining the two into one even though they have zero, zip, zilch, nada to do with each other.
As for Smogon, in the end, every player can play by their rules or choose to play according to another set of rules. I don't really see the point about arguing against what Smogon does when you can just skip their rules altogether and play according to a different set. After all, none of the Battle Spot styles support Smogon. Don't like Smogon? Play VGC or Battle Spot. Singles Smogon is the dominant battle form on this forum and most tournaments are in that format. If you don't like it, you can always create your own tournament (and see it die without support). Hell, if you play on Showdown, there's like... 4 other formats you can play. Those guys spend weeks, months even, testing out teams and pushing numbers. All props to them. They're a dedicated community, and they really do strive to make the game as fair as possible. /shrug |
I Agree With You . But The Thing Is , Smogon Make These Tiers To Make The Game Enjoyable & All While Pokémon In VGC Match Tells You , "You Like That Pokémon ? Cool , Use It ?" Smogon Is Not The Correct Way To Play Pokémon . I See Many Twelve Year Old Kids Getting Yelled At For Using Minimize Driblim When They Are Really Playing Under VGC Rules . I Understand We Can Play As For Fun , But When It Comes To World Wide Tournaments , You HAVE To Use Anything You Can To Win Unless The Rules Say So.
|
Pffffft. Nowhere does it say anywhere in VGC that Smogon is not the correct way of playing. Fact is, a player should make themselves familiar with the rules before joining any tournament. There's been plenty of players who've been kicked out of a regional for bringing in an illegal team. In fact, it's easier to last-minute convert a team from VGC to singles format. VGC is the OFFICIAL LIVE COMPETITION format. So what? That doesn't mean you're banned from playing singles, or making and agreeing on rules ahead of time.
If a 12-year-old wants to become competitive, he or she had better learn to update themselves with the rules before joining any tournament. Pfft, I know parents who fix their kids' teams so that the kids can compete. Someone has to take responsibility. Sorry, but if a person decides to go into a tournament blind to the rules, they deserve to lose or get DQ'd. Only one situation exists where a person may be given the pass and that's if they literally could not go check the rules. And in that case, shouldn't life take priority anyway? |
Quote:
Also, if we're gonna talk about what VGC rules are, VGC is all doubles only. And if all we did was have double battles life would suck, okay? Work on typing without caps on every word while you're at it, unless you're trying to annoy the entire forum. |
I Am Saying Why Do So Many People Act Like Smogon's Say Is The Ultimate Word . & No, They Do Not Make The Best Decisions, Why Do People Think That? People Are Just Following Them & Thinking They Are The Representative To Pokemon Or Something . Just Say In Proper Battling , Several Legendary's Cannot Be Used. Other Than That, You Need To Use Logic & Decide How To Build A Powerful Team Of Non-Legendary's . You Spend Long Time Training A Pokemon To Level Hundred & Then It's Banned Just Because It Can Sweep Someone's Team ? There Is No Pokemon That Has No Weakness In Now In Gen 6. So If You're Loosing Then It's Because You Don't Have A Balanced Team , Don't Blame It One The Trainer Or The Pokemon That Sweeped You.. Blame It On Yourself . I don't see the real point of this so called "competitive battling"... I mean just say to people go build yourself a team as long you don't use any legendary's then it's fine. If You Build A Team Filled With Weak Pokemon , Then You Should Not Complain If You Get Swept . There Are Some Non-Legendaries With Great Abilities Such As Blaziken But It Can Be Countered If You Have A Proper Balance Team . What You Don't Do Is Turn Around & Ban Blaziken . There Is Nothing Competitive About That .
~ By The Way , This Is The Way I Type , Nobody Is Trying To Annoy Other People . I'm Just Known For Typing The Begginning Every Word With A Capital Letter . ;) |
Quote:
Quote:
For something like singles do I think Smogon is in the right? Yes. Do I think people playing singles should adhere to their rules? Sure. I think it makes things fair and more fun. But no one's making you do anything, if you don't agree with Smogon, then don't play by their rules. |
You can say don't play by their rules but most online battling I've found goes by Smogon rules. It's not as easy to escape as you make it sound.
Perhaps my lack of problems with most Pokémon is the fact I almost always have a Ditto on my team. It's my favorite Pokémon as you can tell from my picture and it just so happens to be great competitively. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
I haven't played on a Smogon server yet, but I did have a curiosity about the logic applied. Evasion isn't allowed (Double Team, Minimize.... Sand Veil), since they don't want to pigeon-hole people into needing moves that always hit (Shock Wave, Clear Smog, Swift, etc), but everyone says to have a Pokemon that can Rapid Spin on your team.
Entry hazards are ok, but Heaven forbid that you have a Pokemon with Keen Eye or an auto-hit move; Heck even Roar phazes without fail now :) |
Quote:
|
They nerfed weather already... maybe that means they'll take a look at entry hazards?
I didn't even know that you could "soak up" Toxic Spikes with a Poison-type Pokemon until I watched a Youtube WIFI battle. Maybe they could do something similar with Stealth Rocks... or at least give it diminishing returns. |
My Point Is , People Rage Quit Because "Supposedly" We Don't Follow The "Smogon Rule" In Battle Spot . I Understand Having A Battle With Friends & All That , There's No Competition , & Maybe That's Where Smogon Is Trying To Get , Not In Big Tournaments Like VGC & People Yell At The Host Of The Tournament Only Because His Or Her Opponent Used A Drizzle + Swift Swim Pokemon Or A Move Called "Minimize" Or "Double Team" But What They Don't Realize Is That They're Not Playing By Smogon Rules . Like About Half Of The Megas Are Banned ? What Is That ? They Didn't Banned Kangaskhan In The Past Gens. I Don't Know Why They Would Ban It Now . Yes , Is Powerful Now , But Pokemon Did That For A Reason & They Know They Can Be Countered Not Just By Super Effective Moves , But Also Pokemon Like Gengar Once Kagaskhan Mega Evolves Most Of Kangaskhan Moves Will Be Immune To Gengar & Gengar Can Take Advantage Of That.
|
Quote:
Quote:
Blaziken: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/xy-ou-ban-of-blaziken-and-deoxys-n.3492497/ Kangaskhan: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/kangaskhanite-is-now-banned-to-ubers.3495351/ Gengar: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/xy-ou-ban-of-gengarite.3494085/ I suggest you read these. Quote:
Quote:
|
Quote:
All you have to do on battlespot is send kang out first, mega and spam sucker punch, unless they spot this OP tactic at the team selection screen and send out a counter first turn. |
If people decide to yell at a tournament host, the tournament host can kick that person out. Did you hear about that 60 year old guy who got expelled by the tournament organizer and picked up by the cops because he was trash talking a kid?
And let me repeat myself again: If you are any kind of a competitive player, you do NOT go into a tournament without checking the rules first. You wanna rage quit? Go for it. A point for your opponent, and none for you. I'm not exactly sure what point you're trying to make. Are you trying to convince everyone to play by battle spot or VGC rules just because it's programmed into the game? You do realize that there is a free battle option on battle spot where anything goes, right? Are you trying to convince everyone on PC to play by your (aka not Smogon's) rules? What exactly are you trying to prove? Because all I'm seeing from you is "everyone needs to play battle spot rules because Smogon is unfair" with absolutely nothing to back it up. Your examples are terrible and whoever it is you're describing is not a responsible competitive player in any imagination. As for casual players, battle spot will very likely put them off, because the rated battles are where competitive players practice while the free battles are chock-full of level 100 legendaries like Mewtwo and company. Too bad for them, go play in maison. |
Quote:
|
If you use 'level' as a measurement, you will imply that Smogon is less competitive that VGC. We disagree: Despite VGC and Smogon tiers being different formats they are still both competitive in nature. It will helps if you understand the concept of metagaming. In short, you approach a battle in the sense that you can outline the possibilities your opponent has beyond what you see on the screen. This kind of thinking can be applied to multiple formats despite their difference. A good player will understand how the different rules shape the circumstance of the actions, thus a good Smogon palyer will likely do pretty well in VGC, vice versa.
Though not liking people just because they play by different rules is just silly. |
Cordova you're using some flimsy logic here, and not to mention your capitalization of every word doesn't make me want to read more. I'll try to hit some of your arguments.
"When There's A VGC Tournament Hosted By The Creators Of The Pokemon Game , People Will Use All Those "OU" Pokemon In There" The Pokemon are OU are there because they are good, that is why they are overused, they are versatile, and can respond to a variety of threats. There are however some mons that do not overlap. While the makeup of Pokemon may be similar the strategies and item combinations of OU and VGC couldn't be further apart, because there are different strategies in play that players need to respond to in both formats. "In VGC Match Tells You , "You Like That Pokémon ? Cool , Use It ?" Smogon Is Not The Correct Way To Play Pokémon ." Both formats have their own ban lists, this years VGC has a limit on Pokemon only found in Kalos. So no VGC isn't more fair. Smogon is ranked in viability, so that every Pokemon has its own tier. Smogon is more than OU, every tier has its own playerbase. Banlists are ok, they help keep variety and health in the game, or at least shake things up. Based on current usage stats with 40% of all VGC teams using Rotom-W and Garchomp compared to 27% and 15% in OU you'd be hard pressed to convince me that reasonable bans don't create a more fun game. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
| All times are GMT -8. The time now is 1:41 AM. |
![]()
© 2002 - 2018 The PokéCommunity™, pokecommunity.com.
Pokémon characters and images belong to The Pokémon Company International and Nintendo. This website is in no way affiliated with or endorsed by Nintendo, Creatures, GAMEFREAK, The Pokémon Company or The Pokémon Company International. We just love Pokémon.
All forum styles, their images (unless noted otherwise) and site designs are © 2002 - 2016 The PokéCommunity / PokéCommunity.com.
PokéCommunity™ is a trademark of The PokéCommunity. All rights reserved. Sponsor advertisements do not imply our endorsement of that product or service. User generated content remains the property of its creator.
Acknowledgements
Use of PokéCommunity Assets
vB Optimise by DragonByte Technologies Ltd © 2023.