![]() |
Quote:
|
We're Getting Nowhere With This Debate . Besides , Those Moves That Never Miss , Their Power Is About 60 & Of Course The Accuracy Is Always Landing . But You Can Also Use Your Abilities To Do More Damage Or Use Moves Like Swords Dance For The Shadow Punch . STAB Moves Work As Well .
|
Quote:
There will always be a Pokemon or a group of Pokemon that are the most effective in any given format, for a variety of reasons. It just so happens that because VGC and Smogon OU currently have roughly similar banlists (with a few notable exceptions on both sides), you see the same common Pokemon in both tiers. This isn't because Smogon is influencing VGC. It's because the Pokemon are excellent in multiple formats. Take Talonflame for example. In Smogon OU, it excels as a fast revenge killer with the strongest priority move in the game (Gale Wings Brave Bird). In OU, you mostly see it as a Choice Band attacker with Flare Blitz, Brave Bird, U-turn, and a filler move (Will-o-Wisp or Tailwind). When you use Talonflame in VGC, its qualities that make it good in OU (Gale Wings Brave Bird) don't magically go away. The most common set in VGC for Talonflame is a Life Orb supporter, with Flare Blitz, Brave Bird, Quick Guard, and Protect. If people get mad at you for using "Smogon Pokemon" in other tiers and rage quit, just accept the free win and move on. I can guarantee people won't be rage quitting at an actual VGC competition though, since most people go to those to win prizes. Anyway in general I'm seeing a lot of misconceptions about what Smogon is / aims to to with its tiers. You should all check out the tiering FAQ on Smogon before passing judgement on the site as a whole. I'd link it but I can't post links until I have 15 posts (which is a shame, it answers a ton of questions people are bringing up). |
tennisace asked me to post this link for him. I also completely agree with what he is saying. :o
|
You are basing a lot of your arguments on assumptions. Smogon Singles and VGC are entirely different formats and when you see people using Pokemon that 'coincidentally' are also used a lot on Smogon, our first tought would be that these Pokemon simply function well in both enviroments; no magic, no ominious cult followings. It is the same game, after all. Should both of you have agreed on using VGC rules, the one complaining about the opponent infringing rules of Smogon, he is either a scrub or either of you failed to make your point clear.
The statement that Pokemon is not made for competitile play is questionable and just an opinion of yours. Either way, you cannot prevent people from approaching the game in a competitive manner the same way we won't dictate you the way to play. The inistence on the only right way to play is slightly hypocritical of you. Also, your opinion carry the unfortunately implication that VGC is not competitive in nature because you now you have dropped the 'VGC is the way to play' and the 'Pokemon is not competitive' consecutively. And if you haven't noticed yet: Game Freaks is pretty aware of competitive Pokemon player being a big part of the fanbase and the 6th gen is heavily catered towards them. Also, we really recommend you to drop the habit of capitalizing every single word. Do not forget: If everything is emphasized, nothing is. That, and it makes our head spin. |
Quote:
|
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZSapv3JHbU[/ame]
This is a VGC match. Some people call this "cheap win" or whatever but I personally think this is a good battle. There's nothing wrong with it, others called it "gamey tactic" supposedly doesn't show skill? Well, what do you think? There's no Smogon rules in here, most people that play by Smogon rules are adults like about in their twenties or so. Smogon is different than VGC & that's that. I'm Not Just Talking about Smogon OU Tier but also every tier & their rules. I would stay in Smogon because it shows me some ways to play because I was a begginner, but now that I know & rely on myself, I can do it on my own. Maybe we can play by Smogon rules but don't be copying the samples that Smogon has for the pokemon. USE your imagination, be creative. Otherwise, people will guess your strategy easily & will get by you fast. & I guess i'm trying to write most of the things in lower caps. :P |
Oh, this guy. This guy's the one who set off the last massive VGC versus Smogon firestorm. If this really is at Regionals, I wonder how he placed. Considering his opponent used Umbreon, Archeops, and Luxray, I'd be hesitant to say that his opponent is any good. Anyhow, this strategy would likely fail if it was used in today's meta. This is a 2012 VGC video, if I'm right. The game's changed drastically since then.
Also, one thing. TAUNT ruins his team. Just one move ruins an entire team. One extremely common move. |
Ma'am, I understand about the meta-game being different now, but something like that can be done again, just differently. Always expect the unexpected. It's like Pokemon, don't over predict or get over confident, things like can get you off track of your objective.
|
Quote:
Anyways, I'm failing to understand the point of this argument. D: Sounds like someone just wants people to admit VGC > Smogon? Which is totally not true, by the way. Especially when you consider Smogon has both a Doubles ladder AND a VGC ladder - both of which are filled with people who go to VGC tourneys. 0.o Isn't Verlisify some huge troll, too? xD The name sounds familiar, and not in a good way. |
Thanks for reconsidering your styple of writing, it makes your points come across less clunky.
Your arguments still need a bit work, though. Nobody here would call that a 'cheap win'. In fact, there are only two end states in competitive gaming - winning and loosing. If a tactics is proven superior , it simply becomes the center of the metagame and players will act according to that. The reason why this kind of tactic is not established is because it cannot compete in the current (now past) metagame and we also wouldn't call that a example because the opponent's team is not well constructed. The opponent failed anticipate Drifblim using a status move and instead of using a fast taunt or super-effective snipe the hit it with a payback coming from 65 base attack - in the VGC metagaming you actually would expect Drifblim to either WoW or to use Gem Acrobatics and Thundurus, who is basically everywhere has both priority Taunt and a resistance to Flying, so the result would be the same. We would be a bit careful with this youtuber because his OPs have a rather mixed competitive value, as they sometimes lack practice value or are stacked towards his favour like this example. Also, he is known to run the bias streamroller over Smogon like similarly to you, just in order to net cheap views. It would at least explain where your mindset came from. |
Quote:
|
I don't know about TROLL, but I do know that on NB, any mention of him tends to be singed by sarcasm from experienced players and worshipful by new players. That tells me, at least, that he's doing a good job getting new players into VGC but his strategies and playstyle are iffy at best and downright bad or purposely stacked in his favor at worst. Bit like that video linked. I mean, WHO uses Umbreon, Luxray, and Archeops competitively?
|
Quote:
|
Now we aren't sure if we understand you correctly anymore, but we'll give it a shot: In other words, did you say that Smogon caused the creativity of the people everywhere but on Smogon to stagnate? Correct us if we are wrong.
We'll let this opinion stay but remember that the primary goal of a competitive gamer, no matter whether Smogon or VGC, is winning, preferably in the most effective fashion possible. For someone who approaches the game with this mindset, creativity has only so much room that makes him winning more easily. Do not forget that there is a limited number of possible Pokemon and movepool combination and an even more limited number of viable options. Just using non-standard Pokemon and movesets and claiming that that is creativity is - to put it in the most brutally honest way - lazy. Real creativity can be subtle, but it is definitely there; creating a non-standard set that can compete with established powerhouses is difficult but beautiful when the hard work comes to fruition. You might want to take a look that Smogon's Creative / Underrated Sets Thread (yes, they actually support creativity if you can win with it). This one is for Smogon OU, but should give you good insight in what is considered smart. Just watch the approvals in order to sort out the good from the bad. Off topic: There is not much walling in VGC, so there is less need for a dedicated wallbreaker. Luxrays strengths are Intimidate support and sniping with Quick Attack but then why not using Arcanine with Extreme Speed? |
Quote:
|
Quote:
Quote:
And nobody is telling you that you can't use a certain poke or that you can't use one in a certain way; they're telling you that your chances of winning are rather low if you use certain pokes or in a certain way. You can use any Pokemon you want except Funbro, if you use Funbro I will roast you with mah dragon fire however you want, just don't expect amazing results (unless you happen to be the next guy who came up with CroCune). |
Lol you can try to roast Funbro with your dragon fire but he will simply laugh at your tactics to bring him down. Funbro is Pokégod.
Want to have fun in VGC/Doubles? Funbro/Funking. You're welcome. While you're at it, make them Shiny. |
Quote:
http://youtu.be/0ymFRF83GdM |
If you think about it, Smogon does make you battle a certain way if you play by theit rules since most people play in favor for Smogon .
|
Quote:
Yes, you have to play by Smogon's rules if you choose to play in places that abide by Smogon's rules. If you choose to live in a certain country, you have to abide by that country's laws. And like I've been saying this whole time, you don't have to choose to play by Smogon's rules. Many people choose to play by Smogon's rules because they feel that Smogon has come up with a rule-set that makes Pokemon battles the most competitive/fun. But no place enforces Smogon's rules besides Showdown and tournaments/battles hosted by Smogon, or unless the 2 players involved agree to use Smogon's rules beforehand. There is zero reason to follow Smogon's rules outside of those things. |
Does this not qualify as trolling yet?
How many times can someone's argument evolve into something different, when the last one breaks down, until the argument is OP and we ban it to the ubers tier of arguments? |
Playing by Smogon's rules is optional though a lot of people follow them.
These rules are out there to avoid OP Pokemon and cheap ways to win, allowing the game to be fair for everyone. I personally agree with all of Smogon's rules because to me, Pokemon battling is more about skill and not grabbing a Mewtwo to attack everyone with because unless someone has a counter to said Mewtwo (for example), anyone can win with it or another strong Pokemon. It takes little skill to do so. |
Something we can add to this discussion: Smogon has recently announced that they are going to conduct a suspect test on Swagger+Prankster.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/swagplay-evaluating-potential-bans-basic-definition-of-uncompetitive-in-op.3500620/ What do you all think about this? |
Quote:
|
| All times are GMT -8. The time now is 1:41 AM. |
![]()
© 2002 - 2018 The PokéCommunity™, pokecommunity.com.
Pokémon characters and images belong to The Pokémon Company International and Nintendo. This website is in no way affiliated with or endorsed by Nintendo, Creatures, GAMEFREAK, The Pokémon Company or The Pokémon Company International. We just love Pokémon.
All forum styles, their images (unless noted otherwise) and site designs are © 2002 - 2016 The PokéCommunity / PokéCommunity.com.
PokéCommunity™ is a trademark of The PokéCommunity. All rights reserved. Sponsor advertisements do not imply our endorsement of that product or service. User generated content remains the property of its creator.
Acknowledgements
Use of PokéCommunity Assets
vB Optimise by DragonByte Technologies Ltd © 2023.