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Id actually point at the general skill of ladder players and their teambuilding abilities if BP is an issue. Its often been said the skill level of the ladder is generally poor, but i digress. Im not saying BP isnt a good play style, it is good...when it works, however it has some fundamental flaws which ive outlined. However the assumption it takes no skill is absolutely a ridiculous opinion and id argue whoever says this hasnt used it themselves. It does take skill, more than most playstyles. This isnt like Moody where the match turns into pot luck. It can be defeated with relative ease when you prepare for it (which ill talk about later). If you cant beat unboosted Pokemon from turn 1, id argue your team doesnt have much offensive prowess (or you simply dont prepare for stat boosters well enough, this applies in the case of defensive teams) and it will struggle against other teams archetypes too, especially those that lean defensively towards BO/Stall and will struggle to break them which as ive said is why most people suck against stall too. That or your team just presents far too many opportunities for free turns and set ups, again its not just Baton Pass that will make you pay for this. Quote:
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Ah yes, the old "failure to adapt" argument. Should we unleash SwagPlay again because we were just too lazy to adapt by running Chansey/*insert SwagPlay "counter"*?
There's a reason BP is stigmatized. It's not really a competitive strategy--you're just not playing the game. The difference, in a nutshell, is that BP is playing the game tactically, while everything else is strategic. Stall is difficult for poor players to break too, but no one wants to ban Mega Venusaur or Chansey. Maybe there's something else going on here besides a failure to adapt? The question you're answering is "Is BP broken?" I think that's the wrong question to ask. There is a precedent for banning things that aren't broken, as OHKO clause and evasion clause show us. (Unless you think Double Team is broken. But hey, maybe we should all just adapt and run No Guard Machamp or a Hazer.) The question to ask is "Are BP chains healthy for the metagame?" or "Are BP chains inherently uncompetitive?" Charizard-Y has nothing to do with these questions. (Personally, I think a complex ban is the perfect answer--by nerfing chains but keeping BP as a move and as a more limited strategy around, it prevents boring, tactical, uncompetitive matches on the ladder while punishing people who don't adequately prepare for stat-uppers. If you disagree, fine, but "failure to adapt" is a lazy, elitist argument and you should know better. It's not just bad players who want this gone and you know it.) |
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The issue of subjectivity that you raise is important. It's up to every individual to determine that. The distinctions I make are personal, though I do feel like BP is more clear-cut than weather. Gen 5 was pretty terrible though.
In terms of your first question, I think the essence of competitive Pokemon is strategy, both in team building and in battle. BP is very rigid and unadaptable in terms of how it's played. While it can be played with varying degrees of skill, it does not engage the game the same way that every other playstyle does. It's very frustrating that people try to win games like that, and I personally don't think it's healthy regardless of whether or not it can be easily dealt with. (Though I will reiterate that if it were so easy, people probably wouldn't care. But when ban opponents start throwing out Roar Mega Gyarados as a counter because its Roar bypasses Mr. Mime's Soundproof, maybe that's your first hint it's not so easily disposed of...) So I suppose it's just a matter of taste. I don't see how the game would be negatively impacted in any way if chains were nerfed. |
Someone please tell me what is the best team to deafet the elite four of pokemon fire red?
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hmm, in game team is all about the pokemon level lol, i have only played fire red so who knows, level 100 charizard was enough :P
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Nah man, level 98 Mewtwo is the best team. No Suhttp://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/c/c8/Dream_Hyper_Potion_Sprite.pngper Potions. That is all. |
When XY was released, there was a Kalos Dex Only season of Special Battle. Do you think there will be a Season of Special Battle limited to the Hoenn Pokedex?
Half of all megas are listed in the Hoenn dex, so there would be plenty to choose from. Kalos mons would be cut out, but it would only be for a few months of special battle. I think that might be a Possibility in the month following the release date. It would shake up the meta game by removing the top Mons like Ageis, Talon, Garchomp. Giving Hoenn Pokemon a chance to see how is on top.... Resulting in Salamence all the way down. |
I could definitely see them doing that for ORAS, especially with all the hype for it. It would certainly make things a little different, though it depends on what pokes are included in the Hoenn dex this time around. It's possible that they'll expand it to include more Pokemon.....but then maybe Talonflames will suddenly appear in Hoenn.
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So anyone care to give me a rundown on how the meta is looking?
Although I gotta say, Kyurem not even being good enough for UU anymore. Poooower creep. |
Do you mean the OU or UU metagame?
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Although UU looks pretty good. Quote:
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OU is pretty chill, nice and balanced. Stall works, offense, balance works, rain works, Baton Pass is still around for now, etc. Some thoughts:
- Stall is good but is very easy to counter-team. You know you'll be seeing Chansey. Any stall worth anything has Quagsire or Clefable too. Mega Venusaur or Amoonguss will be there. Skarmory is common. It's just not that hard to construct an offensive team that can wear down the real heavy lifters defensively, especially since Venusaur and Chansey don't have Leftovers recovery (and many Skarmory use Rocky Helmet...) which just makes life easier. Honestly, I only ever lose to stall when I really botch the execution, but it's probably the most consistent win for me. And I run ScarfChomp and Ferrothorn on my team. - Slow sweepers just aren't worth it. Too many fast Pokemon and too much priority. Why would you use, say, Manaphy when you can use Greninja and hit faster with more coverage and immediate power? It's not like the added bulk is really doing much for you when you're contended with Thundurus, Landorus, Speed-tying Charizard, etc. The lone exception is Landorus because it murders stall, but he's more of a breaker than a sweeper (unless you're using the inferior Calm Mind variant), but even he is bad against offense since Ground STAB is pretty bad. - Clefable is an awesome Pokemon. Ditto for Aegislash, who I suspect will eventually get suspect tested. Great defensive typing and stats to come in easily? Check. Diverse movesets despite a fairly limited pool of usable moves? Check. Best offensive STAB in the game? Check. It can just do anything. I've destroyed so many Bisharp with fast Aeg when they expect a switch and Pursuit or Knock Off--I've only been Sucker Punched once. It's such an amazing breaker and the only one I've used that often just flat-out sweeps. Probably the most consistently amazing Pokemon I've ever used, and he sucks to face too. - The metagame balances itself out remarkably well. For as many top-tier threats as there are, I never feel particularly overwhelmed trying to cover everything. DeoSharp is a pain but can be pretty easily counterteamed itself and it helps that many of its users don't know what they're doing. - Scald is the worst thing ever. - So is Baton Pass. - And let's not forget Ice Fang missing. :( |
Offense in general dominates OU, stall is not near as good as it used to be (in ADV it did very well).
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So, apparently the latest tiering news was released and it's quite a hard one:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/smogon-usage-based-tier-update-june-2014.3508291/ Some notable once-shining stars of OU - Alakazam, Volcarona, Blissey, Lucario and Infernape finally fell from grace, dropping from OU into UU. Now people who are new to the metagame will probably be calling Blissey "mediocre" due to the latest changes. I bet they just couldn't survive the onslaught of Wash Rotom and Aegislash (aka the new top OU stars). So how is everyone reacting to these changes? |
These changes aren't really anything major if we're talking about OU. Things are different in UU, however, because Volcarona and maybe Lucario wrecks almost everything in there.
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I was kinda expecting Alakazam and Volcarona to drop to UU, but not Lucario and Blissey. Not sure how something with an Ubers Mega Evolution dropped to UU, and Blissey still seems like OU material to me.
...And now half of my 1st OU team is now classified as UU. It has Hydreigon, Volcarona, Mega Aggron, Togekiss, Gastrodon, and Excadrill in it. Still gonna use them in OU anyway lol. But what I'm really waiting for is the results of the suspect test on full Baton Pass teams. |
I'm actually surprised that Manectric, Gardevoir, Medicham and Scolipede secured solid OU status; I expected them to stay in BL, tbh.
As for Infernape, Volcarona and Blissey falling to UU...that's a surprise. I still think they're viable in OU, though. |
It's very likely that Lucario and Volcarona will move up into BL in the next week or so. Blissey, however, is outclassed by Chansey in terms of usefulness in OU imo. The only advantages that Blissey has over Chansey are better attacking stats and not susceptible to Knock Off.
I do like how UU is looking right now, though. It's like another DPP OU lol |
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Not sure about Gardevoir, but I guess it's to do with Megas again given how powerful those Pixilate-boosted Hyper Voices can get, as already proven with Sylveon. Mega Gardevoir's pretty high Sp. Attack makes those Hyper Voices really hurt, I know she'll struggle against Steels but Focus Blast handles them, and Shadow Ball can get past Aegislash at times. I know Aegislash will be the main threat because it has an advantage on both of Gardy's types. Still, interesting decision on Smogon's part. Manectric was kinda surprising, because I remember when Jolteon used to outclass it but now with Mega Manectric in play it's the other way around. Despite having the weakest stat total of all the Megas, I guess the reason Manectric made it was due to its Speed, strong special attacking prowess and Intimidate which softens physical hits slightly. I think it's the one I'm really questioned about but I'll see how well it performs. Quote:
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Blissey is almost entirely outclassed by Chansey. I love when my opponents use Blissey instead because it's so much easier to break. Even the Knock Off thing Zeffy brought up is somewhat silly, as Blissey hates losing its Leftovers, and more importantly, it hates taking a strong physical attack and might as well not be there if it's going to be taking Knock Offs. Pokemon that use Knock Off are diverse, but Bisharp creams both of them, Ferrothorn can Leech Seed, Landorus-T can set up on either and has massive Attack, and...yeah, Blissey sucks lol. Lucario is terrible in OU in my experience playing against it. It's never a threat, and it's not like my team is particularly well-prepared for it. It's just too difficult to set up despite its Steel typing. It could be good in UU though, but I don't know anything about that metagame. Volcarona is a major threat in OU, but Stealth Rock :( I agree though that Medicham is somewhat surprising--it's a nuke. Still tough to get in, but double switching exists and it's just fast enough to be a pain. I bet better physical megas contributed to low usage, with mega Gyarados, Charizard-X, Mawile, Scizor, Tyranitar, and Pinsir all being huge threats that are in a different class than Medicham. |
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I think the surprise about Gardevoir and Manectric being in OU is more that the regular forms are in OU. Their megas are obviously OU worthy, but maybe not so much regular Gardevoir and Manectric.
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Mega Sceptile and Mega Swampert have been leaked in Corocoro. Mega Sceptile is Grass/Dragon and has Lightning Rod as an ability. Mega Swampert retains the Water/Ground type and has Swift Swim. Mega Diancie has been revealed too, but we don't know anything else about it.
Personally, I think that Lightning Rod is rather underwhelming for Mega Sceptile, considering that it would 4x resist Electric without it. Switching in to Thunder Waves is neat, though. I'm also glad that Mega Swampert got Swift Swim not only in terms of Dex entries (in its Emerald Dex entry, regular Swampert swims as fast as a jet ski), but because of usefulness: it finally can compensate for its low Speed outside of Choice Scarf, but only in rain. What stat increases do you think these Mega forms will get? (assuming speculation isn't allowed in this thread) |
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