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BettyNewbie December 21st, 2014 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8542373)
Maybe it could take place before the alternate events of Red/Leaf's adventure. Perhaps it could show a player who knows young Lysander, Cynthia, and Sycamore, Cynthia is said in DPP to have had a dex when she was younger so Red may not have been the first dex holder...

A game centered around one of the most overexposed and overrated characters ever? No way!

(Sorry, but I just can't stand Cynthia and would like to see *a lot* less of her.)

One prequel I wouldn't mind seeing is the "Generation 0" idea that's been floating around online, taking place around 50 (or so) years before Gen 1 and featuring a younger Oak and Agatha as player characters. We could learn more about their past relationship, as well as their relationships with other characters (like Bertha, for example).

If you don't want to go that far back, I'd also love a game centered around Lance and Clair training to become Dragon Masters (which would take place about 10 years before Gen 1), as one person attempted to do with a (now cancelled) Gold hack a couple of years ago. I love both of their characters, and I think it would be cool to see how they started off. It would be a very different kind of game.

morrison December 21st, 2014 11:26 PM

I dont buy this wjole they dont exist anymore in the canon stuff. seriously, it is not like they got retconned so far or anything, I am still for a 20 years later Kanto experience, and I think the sevii islands where a poor excuse for sth like the orange archipelago. maybe this time they could do a proper orange islands

BettyNewbie December 22nd, 2014 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morrison (Post 8542504)
I dont buy this wjole they dont exist anymore in the canon stuff. seriously, it is not like they got retconned so far or anything

No, FRLG and HGSS haven't been retconned out of canon, altogether, but they don't exist in the same timeline as the current games. And, GF isn't going to revive a "dead" timeline anytime soon (otherwise, we would've gotten a sequel to GSC a long time ago).

Quote:

Originally Posted by morrison (Post 8542504)
I think the sevii islands where a poor excuse for sth like the orange archipelago. maybe this time they could do a proper orange islands

As much as I enjoyed the Orange Islands anime, if that game was going to happen, it would've already happened a long time ago. Alas, the region wasn't created by GF, so don't expect to see it on the handhelds anytime soon (same goes for Orre).

I wouldn't mind seeing Sevii be expanded into a full region with its own gyms and league. There were *a lot* of missed opportunities with those islands.

LusoTrainer December 22nd, 2014 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morrison (Post 8542504)
nd I think the sevii islands where a poor excuse for sth like the orange archipelago.

It wasn't an excuse for anything, it was just optional extra content.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire December 22nd, 2014 7:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8543041)
No, FRLG and HGSS haven't been retconned out of canon, altogether, but they don't exist in the same timeline as the current games. And, GF isn't going to revive a "dead" timeline anytime soon (otherwise, we would've gotten a sequel to GSC a long time ago).



As much as I enjoyed the Orange Islands anime, if that game was going to happen, it would've already happened a long time ago. Alas, the region wasn't created by GF, so don't expect to see it on the handhelds anytime soon (same goes for Orre).

I wouldn't mind seeing Sevii be expanded into a full region with its own gyms and league. There were *a lot* of missed opportunities with those islands.

There sure was. There was even suppose to be more than seven main islands, hence the lady in Seventh island (irc it was 7th) implying that the Sevii islands may not be named as such due to their being seven and that there may be more. Also the mystery of the crop circles was never shown...it left me hanging. Also it'll be fitting to bring back the Sevii islands in a possible Red/Green/Blue/Yellow remake remake/remake in a Seventh gen due to the number similar to the V in Victini possibly symbolizing Gen V (interestingly the Statue of Liberty was given to U.S. by France so perhaps Victini and Victini coincidentally has Vi (6) in it's name. Another thing of interest is how Unova's shape seemed to be the Hexagon (6) (it's main routes forming one around the Extralink) while Kalos' is a Pentagon (5)).

BettyNewbie December 22nd, 2014 9:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8543542)
There sure was. There was even suppose to be more than seven main islands, hence the lady in Seventh island (irc it was 7th) implying that the Sevii islands may not be named as such due to their being seven and that there may be more. Also the mystery of the crop circles was never shown...it left me hanging.

FRLG were obviously rushed out in a hurry, as you can see from the staggering list of unused maps and sprites located with the games' data (Including possible data for Pikachu's Beach!), and the fact that the games removed so many features that had been present in previous ones (like day/night, berries, and contests). For whatever reason, they just didn't take the time to develop the Sevii Islands any more than they had to. Even Kanto was barely any more developed than it was in the originals (arguably less so than it was in Yellow).

Why did they rush the games so much? We know that GF was working on Emerald at the same time, so it's possible that they didn't want to delay that game any more than they had to (especially with the GBA's successor, the DS, coming out later that year). They may have also been in a rush to win back the many people who scorned Ruby and Sapphire's lack of older Pokémon and connections with the previous two regions.

Either way, it had a negative impact on the quality of FRLG as remakes, especially when you compare them to the later HGSS and ORAS, which were clearly made with care and proper planning. It's no wonder that the games have aged so poorly (arguably worse than the original RBY, IMO, since FRLG had the potential to be so much more), and it's yet, another reason to remake Gen 1 again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8543542)
Also it'll be fitting to bring back the Sevii islands in a possible Red/Green/Blue/Yellow remake remake/remake in a Seventh gen due to the number similar to the V in Victini possibly symbolizing Gen V (interestingly the Statue of Liberty was given to U.S. by France so perhaps Victini and Victini coincidentally has Vi (6) in it's name. Another thing of interest is how Unova's shape seemed to be the Hexagon (6) (it's main routes forming one around the Extralink) while Kalos' is a Pentagon (5)).

That's interesting. I didn't know that.

morrison December 23rd, 2014 12:48 AM

he he even more wter to complain about for ign xD. I wonder whether they also complained about water in the nds game for zelda?

I would like a archipelago version though like based off oceania.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire December 23rd, 2014 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8543611)
FRLG were obviously rushed out in a hurry, as you can see from the staggering list of unused maps and sprites located with the games' data (Including possible data for Pikachu's Beach!), and the fact that the games removed so many features that had been present in previous ones (like day/night, berries, and contests). For whatever reason, they just didn't take the time to develop the Sevii Islands any more than they had to. Even Kanto was barely any more developed than it was in the originals (arguably less so than it was in Yellow).

Why did they rush the games so much? We know that GF was working on Emerald at the same time, so it's possible that they didn't want to delay that game any more than they had to (especially with the GBA's successor, the DS, coming out later that year). They may have also been in a rush to win back the many people who scorned Ruby and Sapphire's lack of older Pokémon and connections with the previous two regions.

Either way, it had a negative impact on the quality of FRLG as remakes, especially when you compare them to the later HGSS and ORAS, which were clearly made with care and proper planning. It's no wonder that the games have aged so poorly (arguably worse than the original RBY, IMO, since FRLG had the potential to be so much more), and it's yet, another reason to remake Gen 1 again.



That's interesting. I didn't know that.

I think that Kanto overall is the less developed of the regions. Even GS Johto felt more developed to me from what little I played of it compared to FrLg Kanto but then again I didn't play the originals... they didn't even develop Kanto though in the Johto remakes though...seems Kanto will always be the simple region out of the five...GF is thinking of going 'Simple' with Gen VII according to an interview they did some time after XY came out...honestly if they plan on doing that they may as well remake Kanto...

Wicked3DS December 24th, 2014 5:11 AM

Why do FR/LG just cease to exist in the timeline now?

Also, what crop circles in FR/LG?

BettyNewbie December 24th, 2014 9:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiicked (Post 8545539)
Why do FR/LG just cease to exist in the timeline now?

Because, ORAS established the existence of a new timeline where Megas and Fairies exist, so none of the first five Gens are part of that timeline. Remember that the Hoenn story is supposed to take place at the same time as Gen 1 Kanto...

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8545253)
I think that Kanto overall is the less developed of the regions. Even GS Johto felt more developed to me from what little I played of it compared to FrLg Kanto but then again I didn't play the originals... they didn't even develop Kanto though in the Johto remakes though...seems Kanto will always be the simple region out of the five...GF is thinking of going 'Simple' with Gen VII according to an interview they did some time after XY came out...honestly if they plan on doing that they may as well remake Kanto...

There's nothing inherently bad about simpler stories (in fact, I much prefer Gen 1's simple, yet realistic story to Gen 3 and 4's attempts at going "epic" with heavy-handed mythology, "god" Pokémon, and the like), but there was still a lot of room for improvement.

Even if FRLG weren't Yellow Remakes, I would've liked to see Jessie and James return. Aside from being an easy, convenient way to introduce double battles into Gen 1, they also had a lot of potential for further development. Why didn't they return in Gen 2? Did something happen to them when Archer took over Team Rocket? We could've gotten a little bit of the Grunts' perspective on how their employer treated them (which, I imagine wasn't well), and Jessie and James would've been developed into distinct characters from their anime counterparts.

And, what about Mewtwo? Why and how did it destroy Cinnabar Mansion, and why was it in Cerulean Cave? And, most importantly, who created Mewtwo in the first place? Was Team Rocket involved? There was *a lot* more they could've done with this.

And, everything about the Sevii Islands. If you're going to go through the trouble of making a brand new region for FRLG, then do exactly that. Why couldn't they have had some gyms? And, I wouldn't have minded seeing them take a page from the anime and introduce a connection between Articuno/Zapdos/Moltres and Lugia.

And, then, there's the gameplay-related stuff. There was absolutely NO excuse for getting rid of the internal clock, let alone day/night. Yes, the originals didn't have one, but FRLG were supposed to be 3rd Generation games. They might as well have gotten rid of held items, abilities, and natures.

Same goes for berry trees. GSC had already established berry trees as existing in Kanto, so why suddenly get rid of them? Again, FRLG were supposed to be modern remakes, not Red and Blue with 16-bit graphics pasted on.

And, the Pokédex. Gen 2 Pokémon are just as much a part of Kanto as the Gen 1 ones, so why restrict us to just the original 150, to the point of not even letting us evolve Golbat? What was so bad about giving us the first 251 (plus Azurill and Wynaut)? At the very least, could we have gotten the 40 Gen 2 Pokémon that were originally planned for Red and Green?

While FRLG have their fans, many people (myself included) found them to be very disappointing remakes. There were just way too many missed opportunities with those games, and while it's good that GF seems to have learned their mistakes with HGSS and ORAS, it's a shame to see the beloved 1st Generation stuck with such underwhelming remakes. I think they deserve better than that.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire December 24th, 2014 9:14 PM

They should at least had the Gen II evos, at least the evolution by happiness ones like how HgSs had the evolution by move ones. One of the things I love about OrAs apart from returning to Hoenn is that it went all the way and included all the cross generatinal evolutions of the mons in the dex unlike FrLg and HgSs. I hope future remakes do this.

Kanto now has several more cross generational evos now so if they remake it again they should add all those. With them it'll have mons from each Gen minus 3 (as Wabuffet, Marill and Azumarill aren't part of the Kanto dex) and 5.

Hiatus December 25th, 2014 4:02 AM

I agree with that; as explained above, it'd likely be best if they had included future-generation evolutions within PokéDex (that is, if their pre-evolution forms are a part of the region) in remakes. Although this would make it slightly more difficult when it comes to completing native Dex and whatnot, but not overly.

BettyNewbie December 25th, 2014 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8546528)
Kanto now has several more cross generational evos now so if they remake it again they should add all those. With them it'll have mons from each Gen minus 3 (as Wabuffet, Marill and Azumarill aren't part of the Kanto dex) and 5.

They were as of Gen 2. The idea of "Regional Dexes" didn't come along until Gen 3, and it's silly to try to force Kanto and Johto into the mold of Hoenn and Sinnoh (as FRLG and to a lesser extent, HGSS tried and failed to do). Gen 2 Pokémon are just as much a part Kanto as the Gen 1 ones, and denying that only hurts the games. If I wanted to be restricted to the limited first 150 (even if it included cross-Gen pre/evolutions), I'd just fire up my old Yellow cartridge.

Again, things like this are why I truly want to see Gens 1 and 2 remade within the same Generation. It's the only way that GF would truly acknowledge Gen 2 as being a Gen 1 sequel again. The biggest thing that hurt HGSS was that they were designed more as GSC remakes than FRLG sequels, IMO, so they have all sorts of continuity issues with FRLG that GSC didn't with RBY. I would not like to see GF repeat that mistake.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire December 25th, 2014 10:39 AM

Well HgSs did anwser somethings brought up only in FrLg like who Giovanni's red haired son is (Silver). It also showed the top two Johto executives leading the Sevii island branch and how they wanted to do things to have Giovanni return, also a mention of the device they would use on the Lake of Rage to evolve Gyarados. Those may be small but to me it made HgSs will like a conclusion to FrLg.
Interestingly due to the alternate world OrAs no longer feels as much of a parallel-quel to the Kanto games.

BettyNewbie December 25th, 2014 2:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8547182)
Well HgSs did anwser somethings brought up only in FrLg like who Giovanni's red haired son is (Silver). It also showed the top two Johto executives leading the Sevii island branch and how they wanted to do things to have Giovanni return, also a mention of the device they would use on the Lake of Rage to evolve Gyarados. Those may be small but to me it made HgSs will like a conclusion to FrLg.

I'll give you Silver, but the Rocket Executives and their evolution device were in the original GSC, and very little changed about them in HGSS except that they had names and unique sprites (which debuted in HGSS, not FRLG). Their appearances in FRLG were intended to be a reference to GSC (which were still only 3-4 years old at the time, ironically closer to FRLG than HGSS were), so any continuity with HGSS is purely coincidental. Now, if they had Archer mention meeting Red or his operations in the Sevii Islands, on the other hand...

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8547182)
Interestingly due to the alternate world OrAs no longer feels as much of a parallel-quel to the Kanto games.

That's because FRLG are 10 years older than ORAS and were designed specifically to parallel the original RSE (on the earlier timeline). They don't feel like parallel-quels, because they aren't. A new Gen 1 game, on the other hand, would be a different story.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire December 25th, 2014 2:46 PM

Giovanni does mention/allure to Red but not by name in HgSs in the Celebi Event.

I know, just saying that the remakes seem to be more distant from the other games compared to the originals (same will happen with DP and HgSs even if Gen I and II were to be remade. Actually a Gen I remake won't be a good parallel of Gen III unless if it get's remade this Gen but without Gen II which should be remade with Gen IV to keep the parallels. Something is bound to break. Actually Gen DP remakes next Gen or in Gen VIII will break the current Hoenn-Kalos timeline...as DP happen before XY but their remakes will have new mons and maybe even new types like maybe Sound, or Wind).

BettyNewbie December 25th, 2014 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8547403)
Giovanni does mention/allure to Red but not by name in HgSs in the Celebi Event.

That's Giovanni, though, not Archer. That could just as easily point back to RBY. It's only in FRLG that Archer encountered Red. (And, let's not even get into the fact that Red wasn't even the sole protagonist of FRLG, unlike the original games.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8547403)
I know, just saying that the remakes seem to be more distant from the other games compared to the originals (same will happen with DP and HgSs even if Gen I and II were to be remade. Actually a Gen I remake won't be a good parallel of Gen III unless if it get's remade this Gen but without Gen II which should be remade with Gen IV to keep the parallels. Something is bound to break. Actually Gen DP remakes next Gen or in Gen VIII will break the current Hoenn-Kalos timeline...as DP happen before XY but their remakes will have new mons and maybe even new types like maybe Sound, or Wind).

Honestly, I care less about keeping the parallels with Gen 1/3 and 2/4 and more about keeping 1 and 2 consistent. Gen 3 may take place at the same time as Gen 1, but its storyline doesn't have any direct connections to Gen 1's. Same goes for Gens 2 and 4. Gens 1 and 2, on the other hand, are a direct prequel/sequel pair like BW and B2W2, and should, accordingly, be kept close together.

RBY and GSC were released 2-3 years apart for the same handheld with similar graphics, while FRLG and HGSS were released 5-6 years apart for different handhelds with (very) different graphics. That, alone, was enough to make HGSS feel less like direct sequels than GSC, and the larger gap of time meant that FRLG weren't as fresh in memory when HGSS were made than RBY were when GSC were made, so there were more inconsistencies.

While HGSS, overall, were much better remakes than FRLG and were fine games in their own right, they were clearly made more as GSC remakes than FRLG sequels. (Just look at all of the Yellow callbacks that remained in HGSS, despite FRLG not including anything from Yellow.)

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire December 25th, 2014 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8547885)
That's Giovanni, though, not Archer. That could just as easily point back to RBY. It's only in FRLG that Archer encountered Red. (And, let's not even get into the fact that Red wasn't even the sole protagonist of FRLG, unlike the original games.)



Honestly, I care less about keeping the parallels with Gen 1/3 and 2/4 and more about keeping 1 and 2 consistent. Gen 3 may take place at the same time as Gen 1, but its storyline doesn't have any direct connections to Gen 1's. Same goes for Gens 2 and 4. Gens 1 and 2, on the other hand, are a direct prequel/sequel pair like BW and B2W2, and should, accordingly, be kept close together.

RBY and GSC were released 2-3 years apart for the same handheld with similar graphics, while FRLG and HGSS were released 5-6 years apart for different handhelds with (very) different graphics. That, alone, was enough to make HGSS feel less like direct sequels than GSC, and the larger gap of time meant that FRLG weren't as fresh in memory when HGSS were made than RBY were when GSC were made, so there were more inconsistencies.

While HGSS, overall, were much better remakes than FRLG and were fine games in their own right, they were clearly made more as GSC remakes than FRLG sequels. (Just look at all of the Yellow callbacks that remained in HGSS, despite FRLG not including anything from Yellow.)

Actually Crystal was made exclusively for the Gameboy color which is a different system. Which brings to mind another pattern with remakes. Each generation get's remade one handheld after their creation the handhelds have thus far been Gameboy: Gen 1, Gameboy Color: Gen II (GS were marketed as GBC games and worked optimally on the device), Gameboy Advance: Gen III(Here we got Gen 1 remakes), DS: Gen IV (here we got Gen II remakes), and Gen V, 3DS: Gen VII (here we got Gen III remakes).

So maybe RGBY remakes will come on the 3DS, being treated as the Gen III games FrLg were with Sinnoh remakes in the successor handheld to the 3DS (at least to the marketing level of a new one like with GS for the initial pair). If they do Gen VII on the 3DS they should go with making RGBY remakes then to avoid making Gen VI too long and to avoid making Gen VII too short (game wise as no Gen ever since Gen III has had less than four games...well in Japan only Gen II has had 3, but four games seems like a little by the modern Gen standards established in Gen III and Gen IV (well for those of us who started with them they represent the modern era, and in terms of transfers they sort of do as the Gen III mons transfer hasn't been broken yet like with the original Pokemon games (I,II))) like was the case with Gen V.

Also it'll allow for the remakes to be more polished like comparing Platinum to BW or B2W2 (in this case I'm thinking of OrAs hence why I mention Platinum as it was the second Pokemon release of the DS era like OrAs are for the 3DS era). Also they could add in whatever Gen VII may have. If they go with this then I expect the next couple of years to look something like this:
Dec 2015 (I say December as OrAs were 13 months after XY and wouldn't mind seeing Z be slightly over a year after OrAs.): Z
2016: Gen VII for the 3DS
2017: FrLg remakes for the 21st anniversary (3x7...Three is the number commonly used for Pokemon games in both terms of games and the mascots, and starters, plus FrLg were Gen III games, with Seven being the number of the Gen (also Sevii islands) also FrLg were the seventh main game release in Japan (1st: RG, 2nd: B, 3rd: Y, 4th: GS, 5th C, 6th: RS (funny enough GS and RS were remade for Gen 4 and Gen 6...too bad Yellow wasn't remade for Gen 3...), 7th: FrLg) can be used to justify the 21st over the 20th? or maybe Yellow remakes instead to make up for RG being remade over Yellow in Gen III xD). Also the 15th anniversary of FrLg. and while they're at it can I have my 7th Generation remake of Emerald? (15th for that one too. Also if they ever decide to do a third version remake making it the following Gen will differentiate it from the pair remakes)
2018: Gen VII's third version/sequels/whatever they want to do.
2019: Gen VIII for new handheld.
2020: Gen VIII third version
2021: DP remakes for the 15th anniversary of the original DP
...

Wicked3DS December 26th, 2014 4:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8547885)
And, let's not even get into the fact that Red wasn't even the sole protagonist of FRLG, unlike the original games.

Um, what? This statement makes absolutely no sense.

BettyNewbie December 26th, 2014 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiicked (Post 8548079)
Um, what? This statement makes absolutely no sense.

FRLG had another player character option besides Red, last time I checked.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8547911)
Actually Crystal was made exclusively for the Gameboy color which is a different system.

The GBC was about as different from the GB as the DSi was from the DS. Even Nintendo considers them one in the same. It wasn't a completely different handheld like the DS was from the GBA.

As I said earlier, this is how I'd like to see the future remake schedule go:

2018: Yellow/Crystal
2022: Diamond/Pearl
2028: Grey/Grey 2

You wouldn't remake B2W2 10 years after BW, so why do it with Gens 1 and 2? While I know some people would prefer Gen 2 and Johto to be retconned into being more of an isolated entity like Hoenn and Sinnoh, I think it's better to just embrace the fact that Gen 2 is a direct sequel. Plus, they'd need something to pair Yellow with, so why not release it and Crystal as a prequel/sequel pair? It also gives them an excuse to do the same with the Unova games, simplifying that remake by a lot.

Wicked3DS December 26th, 2014 1:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8548501)

What does that have to do with canon? The main story is still about Red. It's not like you see the one you don't choose in the game at all.

TheRabbit December 26th, 2014 2:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiicked (Post 8548594)
What does that have to do with canon? The main story is still about Red. It's not like you see the one you don't choose in the game at all.

If you pick the girl, then the girl is the one who defeats Giovanni, leaves Pallet with Blue, becomes the champion, etc...

So even if Red is off doing his own thing while you're playing as the girl, he's not doing these things.


But it's kind of a moot point, because in HGSS, every reference to the FRLG hero uses words that don't have a gender. Like instead of "boy" it'll be "kid" and so forth.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire December 26th, 2014 2:32 PM

@ B.N.
Actually HgSs were remade like 5 years after FrLg. If it were 10...then we would've just gotten HgSs this year instead of OrAs xD. Remakes tend to be every 5 years thus far so perhaps DP will get theirs by 2019. Though if that happens they could still do YC either before (as the Kanto remakes are older than DP) or after (as Johto's remakes are younger than DP).

Actually now that I think about it...Kanto may not reappear for awhile. Kanto seems to be quite disliked by the fanbase or so the vocal people make it seem that way. GF said (in an interview after OrAs came out) that the reason they didn't put the BF after Gen IV as they felt people didn't like it (along with not having enough time). I know it sounds stupid but I fear Kanto may suffer from that. So if Kanto remakes are to happen the fanbase may need to rally the kind of momentum Johto and perhaps to even a greater extent the Hoenn remakes had. Sinnoh doesn't seem to get as much hate whenever future remakes are brought up though, but Kanto does (I read nearly whole forums of people say they would skip it and others who say they are tired of that boring place). However, I also have seen people who do want it, especially after OrAs came out so the momentum may start to build.

BettyNewbie December 26th, 2014 6:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRabbit (Post 8548654)
But it's kind of a moot point, because in HGSS, every reference to the FRLG hero uses words that don't have a gender. Like instead of "boy" it'll be "kid" and so forth.

And, yet, Red is the only one who appears at the end of Mt. Silver. Leaf isn't anywhere to be found.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8548658)
Actually HgSs were remade like 5 years after FrLg. If it were 10...then we would've just gotten HgSs this year instead of OrAs xD. Remakes tend to be every 5 years thus far so perhaps DP will get theirs by 2019. Though if that happens they could still do YC either before (as the Kanto remakes are older than DP) or after (as Johto's remakes are younger than DP).

I was referring more to your plan for new remakes, which would put it closer to 10. But, even 5 years is 2-3 years too many, IMO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8548658)
Actually now that I think about it...Kanto may not reappear for awhile. Kanto seems to be quite disliked by the fanbase or so the vocal people make it seem that way. GF said (in an interview after OrAs came out) that the reason they didn't put the BF after Gen IV as they felt people didn't like it (along with not having enough time). I know it sounds stupid but I fear Kanto may suffer from that. So if Kanto remakes are to happen the fanbase may need to rally the kind of momentum Johto and perhaps to even a greater extent the Hoenn remakes had. Sinnoh doesn't seem to get as much hate whenever future remakes are brought up though, but Kanto does (I read nearly whole forums of people say they would skip it and others who say they are tired of that boring place). However, I also have seen people who do want it, especially after OrAs came out so the momentum may start to build.

I don't know if that's really true. The main reason why FRLG weren't as hyped as HGSS and ORAS was because they were released in the midst of the franchise's mid-late 2000s Dork Age. The older fans who would've welcomed new Gen 1 games were mostly gone from the fandom (repelled by both RS and the end of the Fad), and the younger ones didn't have the same attachment to Kanto, as they never played the original games. The fact that the GBA ended up being a much shorter-lived and lower selling handheld than either the GB/C or the DS didn't help matters (although, the 3DS doing even worse hasn't seemed to have hurt ORAS).

It didn't start becoming acceptable for teens and twentysomethings to start liking Pokémon until the very late 2000s (when people started rediscovering their old cartridges as part of a larger 90s nostalgia craze), which happened to be around the time HGSS were released. Nowadays, the people who are in that 17-20 age range are those who were 6-9 back in 2003, hence all of the hype for ORAS.

That being said, I'd be sad if Kanto truly was as unpopular as you say it is. I mean, none of the other regions would even exist without it. Just because Gen 1's story is kind of underdeveloped doesn't mean that it should be abandoned altogether. :(

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire December 26th, 2014 7:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8548916)
And, yet, Red is the only one who appears at the end of Mt. Silver. Leaf isn't anywhere to be found.



I was referring more to your plan for new remakes, which would put it closer to 10. But, even 5 years is 2-3 years too many, IMO.



I don't know if that's really true. The main reason why FRLG weren't as hyped as HGSS and ORAS was because they were released in the midst of the franchise's mid-late 2000s Dork Age. The older fans who would've welcomed new Gen 1 games were mostly gone from the fandom (repelled by both RS and the end of the Fad), and the younger ones didn't have the same attachment to Kanto, as they never played the original games. The fact that the GBA ended up being a much shorter-lived and lower selling handheld than either the GB/C or the DS didn't help matters (although, the 3DS doing even worse hasn't seemed to have hurt ORAS).

It didn't start becoming acceptable for teens and twentysomethings to start liking Pokémon until the very late 2000s (when people started rediscovering their old cartridges as part of a larger 90s nostalgia craze), which happened to be around the time HGSS were released. Nowadays, the people who are in that 17-20 age range are those who were 6-9 back in 2003, hence all of the hype for ORAS.

That being said, I'd be sad if Kanto truly was as unpopular as you say it is. I mean, none of the other regions would even exist without it. Just because Gen 1's story is kind of underdeveloped doesn't mean that it should be abandoned altogether. :(

Honestly if it weren't for Firered I probably wouldn't have gotten into Pokemon games (as it was the one that led me to buying Emerald), at least not during Gen III as Gen IV was dawning up us by then. So even though Kanto isn't my favorite I have some attachment to the region for that reason, and for establishing the series as a whole.
Also I hate to say it but most of the hate towards Kanto happened during Gen IV as people were tired of Kanto appearing yet again (with HgSs Kanto had appeared in every gen at the time). Though I got tired of Kanto being in every generation it is a very dumb reason to hate it now that I think about it rationally. GSC had Kanto in them so it'll only make sense for HgSs to have them. FrLg were remakes of RG so of course they'll have Hoenn. So there was no avoiding Kanto appearing every gen unless if they removed Kanto from HgSs at the time, but that would've made the games feel like they lost a lot.

Speaking of Kanto, thus far Kanto has appeared not just in every universe pre-Gen VI but also has appeared in every device I mentioned earlier except for the device hosting Gen VI of course. If GF plans to keep that up they'll going to have to have Kanto appear in the 3DS. The best thing to do I think is to skip having another round of Kanto remakes in Gen VI and have Gen VII also be in the 3DS (and maybe marketed for the New 3DS but be playable on the 3DS like how GS was for GBC but was playable for GB too) with enhancements for the New 3DS and have the Kanto remakes in that Gen. That way people would get two Gen's off of Kanto and be able to better appreciate it (Kanto as a region had EDPP in between its two most recent appearances but people still found it annoying in HgSs, hopefully two Gens and a pair (with maybe a third version added in) will do the trick).

TheRabbit December 26th, 2014 8:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8548916)
And, yet, Red is the only one who appears at the end of Mt. Silver. Leaf isn't anywhere to be found.

True, but the canon storyline has Red borrowing Blue and Leaf's Charizard and Blastoise and going to Mt Silver, so that's what the in-game event refers to. Leaf could still be kicking it elsewhere.

BettyNewbie December 26th, 2014 9:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRabbit (Post 8549088)
True, but the canon storyline has Red borrowing Blue and Leaf's Charizard and Blastoise and going to Mt Silver, so that's what the in-game event refers to. Leaf could still be kicking it elsewhere.

Um, nope. Adventures =/ game canon. You might as well be referring to Ash and Gary.

In the original timeline (read RBY and GSC), it's obvious that Red started with a Pikachu and got the other three starters from the Cerulean, Route 24, and Vermillion events (thus, making Yellow canon). It's HGSS that screwed things up by keeping the battle the same (save for swapping out Espeon for Lapras), even though they were supposed to be sequels to FRLG, not Yellow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8548995)
Honestly if it weren't for Firered I probably wouldn't have gotten into Pokemon games (as it was the one that led me to buying Emerald), at least not during Gen III as Gen IV was dawning up us by then. So even though Kanto isn't my favorite I have some attachment to the region for that reason, and for establishing the series as a whole.

Ah, so you're a newer fan. I started out with Yellow way back in 1999 (right at the peak of the Fad) and had pretty much lost interest by the time Ruby and Sapphire came out, so my perspective's a little bit different from yours. Did you ever go back and play the originals after playing the remakes, by any chance?

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8548995)
Also I hate to say it but most of the hate towards Kanto happened during Gen IV as people were tired of Kanto appearing yet again (with HgSs Kanto had appeared in every gen at the time). Though I got tired of Kanto being in every generation it is a very dumb reason to hate it now that I think about it rationally. GSC had Kanto in them so it'll only make sense for HgSs to have them. FrLg were remakes of RG so of course they'll have Hoenn. So there was no avoiding Kanto appearing every gen unless if they removed Kanto from HgSs at the time, but that would've made the games feel like they lost a lot.

I'm sure you meant to say "FrLg were remakes of RG so of course they'll have Kanto," right?

I definitely agree with you here. The only reason that Kanto appeared in Gens 3 and 4 was because of remakes, not because it was being shoehorned into newer games. If Kanto had been stuffed into DPP the same way Cynthia was stuffed into HGSS and BW, then sure, they'd have a reason to complain, but it wasn't.

Of course, I know that there are some people who wish that Kanto was never in GSC in the first place and that Johto was more isolated like Hoenn and Sinnoh (a view that I strongly disagree with).

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8548995)
Speaking of Kanto, thus far Kanto has appeared not just in every universe pre-Gen VI but also has appeared in every device I mentioned earlier except for the device hosting Gen VI of course. If GF plans to keep that up they'll going to have to have Kanto appear in the 3DS. The best thing to do I think is to skip having another round of Kanto remakes in Gen VI and have Gen VII also be in the 3DS (and maybe marketed for the New 3DS but be playable on the 3DS like how GS was for GBC but was playable for GB too) with enhancements for the New 3DS and have the Kanto remakes in that Gen. That way people would get two Gen's off of Kanto and be able to better appreciate it (Kanto as a region had EDPP in between its two most recent appearances but people still found it annoying in HgSs, hopefully two Gens and a pair (with maybe a third version added in) will do the trick).

This would probably be another reason to do Yellow and Crystal together. There, we can knock out both Kantos with one stone; people who are tired of the region will only have to see it for one more Generation, not two.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire December 26th, 2014 10:25 PM

That's true.

As for the originals, I had a friend who let me borrow his Silver (it was very fun and made me look forward to HgSs...which after Pt I thought would never happen (after B2W2 I started to feel the same way about Hoenn remakes)). Even with the latest remakes I still play Emerald sometimes (btw OrAs is as bad as you say FrLg, HgSs were in terms of how they treated Yellow and Crystal. For example Steven says to the player that they have to stop the 'TeamS' not the singular 'Team' even though only one is doing things while the other is aiding the player... also the Delta Episode made the games feel as if they were trying to be both R/S and Emerald remakes at the same time. I feel DP's will be the same way...). RBY were the only ones I didn't play...that I recall. I have a faint memory of playing something that resembled Kanto... before ever playing Firered (this would be in late 2002 to early 2003 during a trip to Mexico so before Hoenn came out in NA)I think it may have been the original Red. I didn't play it long enough to make any kind of review. Both that and FireRed I borrowed from cousins.

It would be better. Also people seem to be tired of the bird trio appearing every Gen (except V)...now jabbing it into Pt and XY was kind of out of nowhere (well not as bad as the dozen legends appearing in OrAs. Also people tend to overlook that the Regi,Lake, and the three Unova trios have appeared in every gen since their intro. Also the Beast, Weather, and Creation trio along with the Bird Duo (though in Gen III H and L were events) has appeared in every gen after their intro too minus V too, same goes for Mewtwo but no one seems to complain about Mewtwo...shows the favoritism). Thus if they make Kanto remakes I'll like to see GF give the bird trio Megas or maybe even Primals...I'm leaning towards Megas. I'll like for Articuno to get Snow Warning, Zapdos with Drizzle, and Moltres with Drought. Also maybe change their Flying typing to Dragon (they could do the same with their master Lugia's Mega) though perhaps that'll make them come off as Bird trio meets the Weather and Tao trios...
Also Mega Mew!
For non legends I want Mega Raichu and Mega Persian (btw they should give Meowth a baby in Gen VII to rival Pichu). Mega Raichu could be Electric/Fighting and get Motor Drive. Persian could be Dark with a Dark type version of Normalize (like Aerilate, Pixilate, Glaciate).

If they remake Crystal too then Mega Ho-oh and Mega Lugia with both getting their H.A. as their M.A.
Also Mega Celebi and Mega Beast trio along with the starters. I hope for Water/Dragon Feraligtr to make a starter Dragon trio with Mega Charizard X and Mega Sceptile. Maybe with Strong Jaws or a Dragon version of Normalize. Mega Typlosion should be Fire/Ground with a Ground version of normalize, while Mega Meganium can be Grass/Fairy with Pixilate. Or maybe all three could stay pure typed mons and get normalize versions of their respective types giving them major STAB moves to use.

Wicked3DS December 26th, 2014 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8549132)
In the original timeline (read RBY and GSC), it's obvious that Red started with a Pikachu and got the other three starters from the Cerulean, Route 24, and Vermillion events (thus, making Yellow canon). It's HGSS that screwed things up by keeping the battle the same (save for swapping out Espeon for Lapras), even though they were supposed to be sequels to FRLG, not Yellow.

But if HG/SS remakes are supposed to stay true to the orignals in some way, what exactly would you propose? Taking Red out of that spot would make HG/SS completely inaccurate remakes of G/S/C. And considering you couldn't get Espeon in Yellow, the fact that Red had one in G/S/C in the first place was completely wrong, so the whole thing is thrown off anyway.

BettyNewbie December 27th, 2014 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiicked (Post 8549189)
But if HG/SS remakes are supposed to stay true to the orignals in some way, what exactly would you propose? Taking Red out of that spot would make HG/SS completely inaccurate remakes of G/S/C.

Well, they were already being pretty inaccurate by replacing Kris with Lyra and sticking a Safari Zone near Cianwood, so I don't see any problem with changing the Mt. Silver battle. HGSS were supposed to be just as much FRLG sequels as GSC remakes, anyways.

One thing they could've (and should've) done was take advantage of Dual Slot Mode and have whoever was at the end of Mt. Silver literally be your character and team from FRLG, name and everything. People who didn't have FRLG or were playing on a DSi/3DS would fight Red's (HeartGold) or Leaf's (SoulSilver) default team:

- Togekiss
- Espeon
- Snorlax
- Articuno
- Zapdos
- Moltres

Yes, they'd have Legendaries, but these birds have lower BSTs and worse movepools than all Pseudo-Legendaries (like Lance's Dragonites), and it's supposed to be a final battle, anyways. Togekiss, of course, explicitly points back to FRLG over RBY, as it's only in the remakes that Togepi is given as a gift (from a gentleman in the Water Labyrinth).

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8549167)
As for the originals, I had a friend who let me borrow his Silver (it was very fun and made me look forward to HgSs...which after Pt I thought would never happen (after B2W2 I started to feel the same way about Hoenn remakes)).

So, you did play Silver before HGSS. Do you think that had any effect on how you perceived HGSS (which were just as much Crystal remakes as GS ones)?

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8549167)
Even with the latest remakes I still play Emerald sometimes (btw OrAs is as bad as you say FrLg, HgSs were in terms of how they treated Yellow and Crystal. For example Steven says to the player that they have to stop the 'TeamS' not the singular 'Team' even though only one is doing things while the other is aiding the player... also the Delta Episode made the games feel as if they were trying to be both R/S and Emerald remakes at the same time. I feel DP's will be the same way...).

Yeah, I know. HGSS actually handled Crystal pretty well and did a good job of integrating its story and features into Gold and Silver's--Eusine, Buena's Password, Extremespeed Dratini, and so forth. It's FRLG and ORAS that messed up their Third Versions. FRLG ignored Yellow altogether, while ORAS awkwardly tried to make Emerald the postgame. GF could've done a much better job with both.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8549167)
RBY were the only ones I didn't play...that I recall. I have a faint memory of playing something that resembled Kanto... before ever playing Firered (this would be in late 2002 to early 2003 during a trip to Mexico so before Hoenn came out in NA)I think it may have been the original Red. I didn't play it long enough to make any kind of review. Both that and FireRed I borrowed from cousins.

So, you never played the original Gen 1, then? (Or, at least, remember playing it.) It'd probably be hard to go back if you started with FireRed, but if you're interested in checking out the original games, I suggest giving Yellow a try. It's different enough from FRLG to not just feel like a limited, more outdated version (and it has *much* nicer sprites and graphics than RB).

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8549167)
It would be better. Also people seem to be tired of the bird trio appearing every Gen (except V)...now jabbing it into Pt and XY was kind of out of nowhere (well not as bad as the dozen legends appearing in OrAs. Also people tend to overlook that the Regi,Lake, and the three Unova trios have appeared in every gen since their intro. Also the Beast, Weather, and Creation trio along with the Bird Duo (though in Gen III H and L were events) has appeared in every gen after their intro too minus V too, same goes for Mewtwo but no one seems to complain about Mewtwo...shows the favoritism). Thus if they make Kanto remakes I'll like to see GF give the bird trio Megas or maybe even Primals...I'm leaning towards Megas. I'll like for Articuno to get Snow Warning, Zapdos with Drizzle, and Moltres with Drought. Also maybe change their Flying typing to Dragon (they could do the same with their master Lugia's Mega) though perhaps that'll make them come off as Bird trio meets the Weather and Tao trios...

I like the ideas for their abilities, but not the Dragon typing (save for Lugia). They don't really come off as even remotely draconic, IMO.

And, speaking of Lugia, I would actually like to see its link with the bird trio actually explored in the games. Storyline-wise, Lugia always seemed shafted compared to Ho-Oh (who got more backstory with the dog trio in Crystal).

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8549167)
For non legends I want Mega Raichu and Mega Persian (btw they should give Meowth a baby in Gen VII to rival Pichu). Mega Raichu could be Electric/Fighting and get Motor Drive. Persian could be Dark with a Dark type version of Normalize (like Aerilate, Pixilate, Glaciate).

Oh, I like both of those very much. Raichu and Persian could certainly use the boost (especially, poor Raichu, who's outclassed by its super popular pre-evolution in most things).

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8549167)
If they remake Crystal too then Mega Ho-oh and Mega Lugia with both getting their H.A. as their M.A.
Also Mega Celebi and Mega Beast trio along with the starters.I hope for Water/Dragon Feraligtr to make a starter Dragon trio with Mega Charizard X and Mega Sceptile. Maybe with Strong Jaws or a Dragon version of Normalize. Mega Typlosion should be Fire/Ground with a Ground version of normalize, while Mega Meganium can be Grass/Fairy with Pixilate.

I like those a lot, too. The Johto starters are considered to be some of the more underwhelming starters (all being pure type and with blah movepools), so they could definitely use a boost.

Wicked3DS December 27th, 2014 10:56 AM

Umm, no. If I'm playing a remake of a game I enjoyed as a child, I would want to fight the original final battle, not some rehashed team based on this theory that it should've been a sequel. When exactly did Nintendo say it was a FR/LG sequel?

TheRabbit December 27th, 2014 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiicked (Post 8549189)
But if HG/SS remakes are supposed to stay true to the orignals in some way, what exactly would you propose? Taking Red out of that spot would make HG/SS completely inaccurate remakes of G/S/C. And considering you couldn't get Espeon in Yellow, the fact that Red had one in G/S/C in the first place was completely wrong, so the whole thing is thrown off anyway.

Red has Espeon because, like I said, the Red battle in G/S/C was a reference to the adventures Red...who had Espeon.

Wicked3DS December 27th, 2014 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRabbit (Post 8549908)
Red has Espeon because, like I said, the Red battle in G/S/C was a reference to the adventures Red...who had Espeon.

You're definitely right about that, it's just the other theories that are presented here are trying to debunk that and I disagree with them. I'm pretty sure they were trying to refer to Pokémon Adventures.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire December 27th, 2014 1:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiicked (Post 8549857)
Umm, no. If I'm playing a remake of a game I enjoyed as a child, I would want to fight the original final battle, not some rehashed team based on this theory that it should've been a sequel. When exactly did Nintendo say it was a FR/LG sequel?

Yet Irc Red's team was changed anyways for HgSs compared to his GSC team.

BettyNewbie December 27th, 2014 2:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiicked (Post 8549857)
Umm, no. If I'm playing a remake of a game I enjoyed as a child, I would want to fight the original final battle, not some rehashed team based on this theory that it should've been a sequel. When exactly did Nintendo say it was a FR/LG sequel?

If you want to play the exact same game you enjoyed as a child, then you should just go hunt down your old cartridges. A good remake is supposed to change things up and not just rehash the original games with prettier graphics. This is why HGSS and ORAS were much better remakes than FRLG; they weren't afraid to add new things and reinvent the old games.

And, HGSS were supposed to be FRLG sequels, because GSC were RBY sequels. Gen 2 was a direct follow-up to the events of Gen 1 in the same way that B2W2 was a direct follow-up to the events of BW. Not only did we revisit Kanto again and see how it changed after 3 years, but there were constant references to the events of "3 years ago" throughout the games. The Team Rocket plot is literally a direct continuation of Gen 1's Team Rocket plot and the aftermath of their disbanding. How did you not get this?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRabbit (Post 8549908)
Red has Espeon because, like I said, the Red battle in G/S/C was a reference to the adventures Red...who had Espeon.

Adventures Red got an Espeon as a reference to GSC, not the other way around. That manga's even less relevant to the games than the anime with Ash; I don't think any game alluded to it until very recently with ORAS referencing Archie and Jirachi.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire December 27th, 2014 2:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiicked (Post 8549857)
Umm, no. If I'm playing a remake of a game I enjoyed as a child, I would want to fight the original final battle, not some rehashed team based on this theory that it should've been a sequel. When exactly did Nintendo say it was a FR/LG sequel?

Yet Irc Red's team was changed anyways for HgSs compared to his GSC team.
The sequel part came from GSC being referred to as sequels to RGBY so thus their remakes should keep that prequel-sequel nature in the remakes. Come to think about it with Gen V having B2W2 each gen has had a prequel-sequel game with Gen I and III having prequel (to the Johto ones), II and IV having sequel (the Johto games), and V having both.

Neko Mizu December 27th, 2014 2:57 PM

I would really love that idea. That could also introduce a new Pokemon tradition of having 3 sets of games per generation. Sure, it would make the next generations appear later than with 2 sets of games, but it would be a lot of fun to do this. I also want to see my favourite gen get remade, second gen. <3

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire December 27th, 2014 3:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neko Mizu (Post 8550165)
I would really love that idea. That could also introduce a new Pokemon tradition of having 3 sets of games per generation. Sure, it would make the next generations appear later than with 2 sets of games, but it would be a lot of fun to do this. I also want to see my favourite gen get remade, second gen. <3

You mean re-remade xD. I wouldn't mind another Johto. I hope that this time they make night darker as one of the things I liked was the surprise of trainers popping out at night in Silver (since I went from Gen III to playing Silver it was something new to have night and day...I never did think why they took it out until later.)

Neko Mizu December 27th, 2014 3:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8550183)
You mean re-remade xD. I wouldn't mind another Johto. I hope that this time they make night darker as one of the things I liked was the surprise of trainers popping out at night in Silver (since I went from Gen III to playing Silver it was something new to have night and day...I never did think why they took it out until later.)

I was going to thank you for correcting me, but I had just realized what you did there. Anyways, I would not enjoy that all too much, making the night too dark (To the point I do not know where the trainers are at. Unless you are allowed to use Flash. If you are able to use Flash, and get it early, then everyone could be happy, I guess?

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire December 27th, 2014 3:24 PM

Or maybe it could be very dark at midnight? Most players probably don't play at midnight so most probably won't be bothered by it. As for those who want it could change their 3DS clocks ^_^.

BettyNewbie December 27th, 2014 4:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8550159)
Come to think about it with Gen V having B2W2 each gen has had a prequel-sequel game with Gen I and III having prequel (to the Johto ones), II and IV having sequel (the Johto games), and V having both.

I'd definitely love to see more sequels, and see old regions revisited in games other than remakes.

Based on my idea, Gen 7 would have the Yellow/Crystal remake pair, and Gen 8 would have the Gen 4 remakes... So, how about have Gen 8's main games be a direct GSC-style sequel to ORAS? I'm no fan of Hoenn, myself, but I know a lot of its fans would like to see it reappear in a sequel game (as a postgame region) like Kanto returned in Gen 2. (Plus, bringing back Hoenn may quell the inevitable complaints about Kanto returning in Gen 7.) This sequel, of course, would take place at the same time as Gens 2 and 4, concurrent with New!Crystal and the DP remakes.

Similarly, Gen 7's main games could also be a Gen 6 prequel (also done in a similar style to GSC) that would make Kalos concurrent with ORAS and New!Yellow. Again, not a huge fan of the region, but I know a lot of people would like it.

As an aside, another pattern I've noticed with remakes is that they get remade in the Generation that's their original Generation x2:

- Gen 2 (GSC) => Gen 4 (HGSS)
- Gen 3 (RSE) => Gen 6 (ORAS)

My idea for future remakes mostly retains this pattern:

- Gen 4 (DPP) => Gen 8 (DP remakes)
- Gen 5 (BW/2) => Gen 10 (Grey/Grey 2)

Only Gen 1 (and the Crystal remake) breaks it, but even then...

- Gen 1(.5) (RBY) => Gen 3 (FRLG)
- Gen 3(.5) (FRLG) => Gen 7 (New!Yellow/New!Crystal)

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire December 27th, 2014 6:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8550304)
I'd definitely love to see more sequels, and see old regions revisited in games other than remakes.

Based on my idea, Gen 7 would have the Yellow/Crystal remake pair, and Gen 8 would have the Gen 4 remakes... So, how about have Gen 8's main games be a direct GSC-style sequel to ORAS? I'm no fan of Hoenn, myself, but I know a lot of its fans would like to see it reappear in a sequel game (as a postgame region) like Kanto returned in Gen 2. (Plus, bringing back Hoenn may quell the inevitable complaints about Kanto returning in Gen 7.) This sequel, of course, would take place at the same time as Gens 2 and 4, concurrent with New!Crystal and the DP remakes.

Similarly, Gen 7's main games could also be a Gen 6 prequel (also done in a similar style to GSC) that would make Kalos concurrent with ORAS and New!Yellow. Again, not a huge fan of the region, but I know a lot of people would like it.

As an aside, another pattern I've noticed with remakes is that they get remade in the Generation that's their original Generation x2:

- Gen 2 (GSC) => Gen 4 (HGSS)
- Gen 3 (RSE) => Gen 6 (ORAS)

My idea for future remakes mostly retains this pattern:

- Gen 4 (DPP) => Gen 8 (DP remakes)
- Gen 5 (BW/2) => Gen 10 (Grey/Grey 2)

Only Gen 1 (and the Crystal remake) breaks it, but even then...

- Gen 1(.5) (RBY) => Gen 3 (FRLG)
- Gen 3(.5) (FRLG) => Gen 7 (New!Yellow/New!Crystal)

I wouldn't mind seeing a future Hoenn but I think Hoenn as played out as Johto was/is. I think DP sequels would be good. Maybe after DP remakes. Gen 7 can be sequels to XYZ, maybe set in the British Isles or maybe Spain, the Neatherlands, or Germany. If they do Sinnoh remakes in Gen 8 I guess they could remake Yellow and Crystal then too (especially to age HgSs a bit more as thus far it's only like half as old as GSC were when they were remade) and have them be the prequel/sequel games of that Gen.


(btw it's fine if you don't like Hoenn, I have a similar attitude toward Kanto itself yet I would like it's fans to be pleased. Same with Unova...)

BettyNewbie December 27th, 2014 8:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8550419)
I wouldn't mind seeing a future Hoenn but I think Hoenn as played out as Johto was/is. I think DP sequels would be good. Maybe after DP remakes.

I don't really care if it's either Hoenn or Sinnoh; I just want to see another sequel Generation besides Gen 2. That's the main reason why Kanto has appeared more than any other region, after all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8550419)
Gen 7 can be sequels to XYZ, maybe set in the British Isles or maybe Spain, the Neatherlands, or Germany. If they do Sinnoh remakes in Gen 8 I guess they could remake Yellow and Crystal then too (especially to age HgSs a bit more as thus far it's only like half as old as GSC were when they were remade) and have them be the prequel/sequel games of that Gen.

Yellow (released 9/12/98) was less than 6 years old when FRLG (released 1/29/04) came out, FYI. (In fact, RBY and FRLG are close enough to be playable on the same handheld, even if they can't directly trade.) HGSS, on the other hand, would be 9 in 2018 (which I would put in late Gen 7 instead of Gen 8), while FRLG would be 14--Perfect time for new remakes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8550419)
(btw it's fine if you don't like Hoenn, I have a similar attitude toward Kanto itself yet I would like it's fans to be pleased. Same with Unova...)

That's how I feel. I'm very much a "Kanto, Johto, and nothing but" person, but I want fans of the other Gens to be happy, too. (Unlike certain other fans at other sites who would rather see Gen 1 skipped over for Gen 4 and permanently left behind in the GBA era because "Kanto was boring.")

Wicked3DS December 27th, 2014 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8550084)
If you want to play the exact same game you enjoyed as a child, then you should just go hunt down your old cartridges. A good remake is supposed to change things up and not just rehash the original games with prettier graphics. This is why HGSS and ORAS were much better remakes than FRLG; they weren't afraid to add new things and reinvent the old games.

And, HGSS were supposed to be FRLG sequels, because GSC were RBY sequels. Gen 2 was a direct follow-up to the events of Gen 1 in the same way that B2W2 was a direct follow-up to the events of BW. Not only did we revisit Kanto again and see how it changed after 3 years, but there were constant references to the events of "3 years ago" throughout the games. The Team Rocket plot is literally a direct continuation of Gen 1's Team Rocket plot and the aftermath of their disbanding. How did you not get this?

I still think most people would want to play against Red with his original team in a remake. This si the first I've heard any complaints about that. And also, the Team Rocket plot is a direct continuation in HG/SS...what are you trying to say?

I think you're way overthinking this. Those games are good as they are. They have enough new features and still are true to the originals, which I think giving Red a whole new team and adding the possibility of fighting Leaf instead stray way too far off course for staying true.

BettyNewbie December 28th, 2014 6:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiicked (Post 8550749)
I still think most people would want to play against Red with his original team in a remake. This si the first I've heard any complaints about that.

Well, then, HGSS already failed at that, because as others have pointed out, Red didn't even have his original team to begin with. (Last time I checked, he didn't have a Lapras in GSC.)

And, trust me, a lot of people have complained about Leaf not being in HGSS. Naturally, people who picked Leaf in FRLG don't like being told they played the games "wrong" with her being de-canonized, and the favoring of Red comes off as kind of sexist (especially in the same games that arbitrarily replaced the original female protagonist with a new one--HGSS were very unkind to female PCs).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiicked (Post 8550749)
And also, the Team Rocket plot is a direct continuation in HG/SS...what are you trying to say?

Because, you were trying to argue that they weren't sequels.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiicked (Post 8550749)
I think you're way overthinking this.

Yeah, how dare I care about storylines and continuity! I need to just button mash and focus on breeding and EV training like everyone else, because that's what these games are all about. *eyeroll*

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiicked (Post 8550749)
Those games are good as they are. They have enough new features and still are true to the originals, which I think giving Red a whole new team and adding the possibility of fighting Leaf instead stray way too far off course for staying true.

But, Lyra and the new Safari Zone don't? Consistency!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hiroshi Sotomura (Post 8550999)
He's right in some way though—if HG/SS extend off anything, it's FR/LG. We've got landmark designs taken right from it, Red's design is based off it, and some of the music takes cues from it. My qualm to the localisation is that they didn't localise Green as Green—righting a wrong from the very start. Goddamn nostalgia demands.

HG/SS strays a fair bit off the course already, too. I wouldn't complain if it were the most "true", but then, while I like the servicing of older fans, I think they need to change things around.

If we see a remake of Red/BlueGreen I'd like them to really change the storyline and features more—like what OR/AS is to R/S. FR/LG seems terrible just because they tried to stick to being a tried-and-true remake, in my opinion. The only time we get real major changes (aside from the Pokémon mechanics) is when we reach the Sevii Islands.

If you're referring to me, I'm a she. Otherwise, I agree with you.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire December 28th, 2014 9:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hiroshi Sotomura (Post 8550999)
He's right in some way though—if HG/SS extend off anything, it's FR/LG. We've got landmark designs taken right from it, Red's design is based off it, and some of the music takes cues from it. My qualm to the localisation is that they didn't localise Green as Green—righting a wrong from the very start. Goddamn nostalgia demands.

HG/SS strays a fair bit off the course already, too. I wouldn't complain if it were the most "true", but then, while I like the servicing of older fans, I think they need to change things around.

If we see a remake of Red/BlueGreen I'd like them to really change the storyline and features more—like what OR/AS is to R/S. FR/LG seems terrible just because they tried to stick to being a tried-and-true remake, in my opinion. The only time we get real major changes (aside from the Pokémon mechanics) is when we reach the Sevii Islands.

That's very much true. When we were discussing the changes they could make to the RS storyline/setting for OrAs the only example for Fr/Lg I could come up with was the interuption after the seventh gym to introduce those islands (and now that I think about it the location of where you can find Moltres). HgSs had the new routes and detour to the Safari zone. OrAs had Mega evolutions, Primals, the Lati appearing early on, and even a post game story before the usual/typical post game.

Yeah HgSs didn't have to change Kris for Lyra. I wonder, if they do remake Crystal if we'll see Kris again...since the excuse of GS had no female protag to begin with won't hold for Crystal. So in the end OrAs didn't only add all of the evolutionary relatives and their evolution methods but are the first remakes to have a female protagonist we're all familiar with and as far as we know is equal to the male counterpart in story.

blue December 28th, 2014 11:13 AM

It sort of makes sense. The next (and final) set of games for Generation VI will come as a pair which was kinda confirmed by the coding of the ORAS demo. If they take a break for 2015, which would be logical considering they released XY in 2013 and ORAS in 2014 then 2016 would be an ideal year to finish Generation VI. Not only would it be a 3 year life-span for Gen VI which seems to be the most common, it would also mark the 20th anniversary of the release of Red/Green which gives reason to why they could remake Red/Green in XY graphics. Not to mention that we got FRLG not long after the release of Ruby and Sapphire.

BettyNewbie December 28th, 2014 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8551308)
That's very much true. When we were discussing the changes they could make to the RS storyline/setting for OrAs the only example for Fr/Lg I could come up with was the interuption after the seventh gym to introduce those islands (and now that I think about it the location of where you can find Moltres). HgSs had the new routes and detour to the Safari zone. OrAs had Mega evolutions, Primals, the Lati appearing early on, and even a post game story before the usual/typical post game.

I agree 100%. A few months ago, I wrote this laundry list of things that could be implemented in a Yellow remake:

My Ideal Yellow Remake:

Quote:

1. Day/Night
2. Berry Trees
3. All of the first 251 Pokémon in the Regional Dex, plus their evos and babies from Gens 3, 4, and 6
4. Pokémon Amie
5. GB Sounds available near start of game
6. Moss Rock added to Viridian Forest and Ice Rock added to Seafoam Islands (for Leafeon and Glaceon)
7. New electromagnetic area added near Power Plant (for Magnezone)
8. Starter Pikachu gets a Light Ball around Cerulean or Vermillion (around the time it started to become obsolete in the original)
9. Rival's Eevee can now evolve into either Espeon, Umbreon, or Leafeon in addition to the original three Eeveelutions (couldn't think of a way to fit either Glaceon or Sylveon onto his team)
10. Jessie and James are a double battle and have more appearances after Silph Co.
11. Level curve is the same as Yellow, but with two major exceptions--Koga's ace is now Level 42, and Sabrina's is Level 45 (they were both Level 50 in the original, way too high for that point of the game)
12. Pikachu can now learn Surf straight from the HM
13. The VS Seeker from FRLG returns
14. The Fame Checker from FRLG also returns, but now has a reward for completing it
15. The gift Kanto Starters are all holding Mega Stones
16. The Sevii Islands return, but are expanded and fleshed out into a real region (the extra islands that were cut from FRLG would also be included)
17. The encounter with Lorelei in Icefall Cave would be a tag battle against Petrel and Proton
18. Prof. Rowan shows up in the postgame and gives you a Sinnoh Starter
19. Gym Leader and Elite Four rematches (they'll all have Megas on their rematch teams)
20. All Elite Four members appear in the postgame on certain days of the week in a Double Battle:
- Bruno and Brawly at Mt. Ember
- Agatha and either Prof. Oak or Bertha at Pokémon Tower
- Lorelei and Lance at Navel Rock (couldn't think of any other friend for Lorelei, and HGSS already did Lance and Clair; plus, I really ship Lance/Lorelei)
21. Eusine appears in Celadon City, and after you speak to him, the Legendary Dogs will start roaming Kanto
22. The following later Gen characters all have cameos: Silver, Janine, Clair, Karen, maybe Alder or Diantha (I'm not a fan of Cynthia, and she's appeared in way too many games, IMO)
23. Lugia and Ho-Oh return to Navel Rock, but are no longer event-exclusive
24. Lugia's connection to Articuno, Zapdos, and Moltres is fleshed-out
25. Mewtwo's backstory is fleshed-out
26. Either Dialga/Palkia/Giratina or Reshiram/Zekrom/Kyurem are all catchable in a postgame area (just like Groudon/Kyogre/Rayquaza in HGSS)
27. The (lame) Battle Tower near Seven Island is replaced with the Hoenn Battle Frontier (just like HGSS had the Sinnoh Battle Frontier)
28. Unselected player character appears as a secondary rival with Clefairy as their starter (like Ethan/Lyra in HGSS)
29. The following get Megas (among others)--Raichu (Electric/Fairy), the Nidoroyals (Poison/Ground), Clefable (Fairy), Vileplume (Grass/Poison), Ninetales (Fire/Ghost), Arcanine (Fire/Dragon), Machamp (Fighting), Victreebel (Grass/Poison), Golem (Rock/Ground), Rapidash (Fire/Flying), Exeggutor (Grass), Starmie (Water/Psychic), Mr. Mime (Psychic/Fairy), Jynx (Ice/Fairy), Tauros (Normal), Lapras (Water), Omastar (Rock/Water), Kabutops (Rock/Water), Dragonite (Dragon/Fairy), Crobat (Poison/Flying), Bellossom (Grass/Fairy), Azumarill (Water/Fairy), Quagsire (Water/Ground), Slowking (Water/Psychic), Miltank (Normal), Ambipom (Normal/Fighting), Mismagius (Ghost/Fairy), Weavile (Dark/Ice), Rhyperior (Ground/Rock), Togekiss (Fairy/Flying), Yanmega (Bug/Dragon), and Mamoswine (Ground/Ice)

As for the Rival's Eevee...

1. Eevee => Vaporeon (replaces Cloyster): Lose to him in Oak's Lab
2. Eevee => Jolteon (replaces Magnezone): After beating him in Oak's lab, defeat his Eevee on Route 22 with a Special attack
3. Eevee => Flareon (replaces Ninetales): After beating him in Oak's lab, either skip or lose the battle on Route 22 during the day
4. Eevee => Espeon (replaces Alakazam): After beating him in Oak's lab, either skip or lose the battle on Route 22 during the morning
5. Eevee => Umbreon (replaces Tyranitar): After beating him in Oak's lab, either skip or lose the battle on Route 22 during the night
6. Eevee => Leafeon (replaces Exeggutor): After beating him in Oak's lab, defeat his Eevee on Route 22 with a Physical attack
Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8551308)
Yeah HgSs didn't have to change Kris for Lyra. I wonder, if they do remake Crystal if we'll see Kris again...since the excuse of GS had no female protag to begin with won't hold for Crystal.

That excuse barely held water to begin with, since, last time I checked, Eusine wasn't in Gold and Silver, either. HGSS were clearly designed to be Crystal remakes just as much as Gold/Silver ones.

Plus, to add insult to injury, there's enough data to suggest that Kris originally was going to be in HGSS; there's an unused PokéGear icon in the games' data that resembles her. Why did they get rid of her?

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8551308)
So in the end OrAs didn't only add all of the evolutionary relatives and their evolution methods but are the first remakes to have a female protagonist we're all familiar with and as far as we know is equal to the male counterpart in story.

It's also worth pointing out that May was the first female PC to A) have a canonically established name, and B) appear in the games if unselected. (Two things that are also true for Lyra, the only Kanto/Johto female PC that is canon, as far as we know.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoenn (Post 8551410)
It sort of makes sense. The next (and final) set of games for Generation VI will come as a pair which was kinda confirmed by the coding of the ORAS demo. If they take a break for 2015, which would be logical considering they released XY in 2013 and ORAS in 2014 then 2016 would be an ideal year to finish Generation VI. Not only would it be a 3 year life-span for Gen VI which seems to be the most common, it would also mark the 20th anniversary of the release of Red/Green which gives reason to why they could remake Red/Green in XY graphics. Not to mention that we got FRLG not long after the release of Ruby and Sapphire.

I'd be down with that, although I'd still prefer to see Yellow (or, at least, Red and Blue) over another Red/Green pair. If they go that way, though, they should, at least, try to incorporate Yellow's story the same way HGSS incorporated Crystal's.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire December 28th, 2014 4:16 PM

What about Glaceon and Sylveon?
Maybe instead they could have the rival ask the player questions and overtime how one answers adds up to one of the eeveelutions (sort of like in a character quiz). Could be other NPC's too like Oak.
Or maybe keep the three eeveelutions how it was in yellow but give them Megas. Both Diantha and Steven have them (while Cynthia has Mega Garchomp already set for her games remakes). Maybe give Dragonite it's Mega.

I hope they resolve what happened to Agatha. Shauntel seems to have met her and Bertha as one of her dialogs references them (at least in BW. Don't recall if she bring it up before battle in B2W2 too) so maybe she's alive...

As for the release of the games...In Japan starting with Gen III RS 2002, FrLgE 2004, DP 2006, Pt 2008, HgSs were in 2009, BW 2010, B2W2 2012, XY 2013, OrAs 2014. There seems to be a tradition of a break mid gen so it's possible GF will take a break (I heard they're working on a new game but it may not be a Pokémon game so that could fill in their money train gap for 2015). Then Gen VII 2017 on a new system, Third game 2018, DP remakes 2019, Break 2020, 2021 for the quater century annivesary of the franchise they have Yellow and Crystal remakes.

It would be agonizing to wait another 7 years for another set of Kanto/Johto remakes for fans of those games/regions...trust me I know the feeling with Hoenn and Sinnoh...

BettyNewbie December 28th, 2014 4:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8551675)
What about Glaceon and Sylveon?

I'm ignoring them. They don't fill any specific niche on Blue's team that another Eeveelution (such as Vaporeon or Espeon) already fills. (And, I don't like them as much as the others.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8551675)
Maybe give Dragonite it's Mega.

This, definitely. Poor thing's now the only pre-Gen 5 Pseudo who doesn't have one, and it would be the ultimate slap in the face if the likes of Hydreigon and Goodra got them before it did.

(Plus, it feels like only further proof that Lance will always play second-fiddle to the overrated Steven and Cynthia in GF's eyes. Not only does he never get the guest appearances and promotion they get--despite being part of the franchise for 7-10 years longer--but they won't even give his ace a Mega. Yes, he still has Pokémon that can Mega Evolve, but let's be honest, who wants to see Gyarados or Aerodactyl as his Mega?)

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8551675)
I hope they resolve what happened to Agatha. Shauntel seems to have met her and Bertha as one of her dialogs references them (at least in BW. Don't recall if she bring it up before battle in B2W2 too) so maybe she's alive...

Don't forget about Lorelei, who hasn't even been referenced in any game since FRLG. I will never be satisfied with the idea of her disappearing off to some tiny island and spending the rest of her life fighting off Rocket Grunts, never finding happiness or achieving anything great. Her entire backstory should be retconned and fleshed out, IMO. I wanna see her set up to become a future Champion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8551675)
As for the release of the games...In Japan starting with Gen III RS 2002, FrLgE 2004, DP 2006, Pt 2008, HgSs were in 2009, BW 2010, B2W2 2012, XY 2013, OrAs 2014. There seems to be a tradition of a break mid gen so it's possible GF will take a break (I heard they're working on a new game but it may not be a Pokémon game so that could fill in their money train gap for 2015). Then Gen VII 2017 on a new system, Third game 2018, DP remakes 2019, Break 2020, 2021 for the quater century annivesary of the franchise they have Yellow and Crystal remakes.

It would be agonizing to wait another 7 years for another set of Kanto/Johto remakes for fans of those games/regions...trust me I know the feeling with Hoenn and Sinnoh...

Remake Gen 4 before Gen 1? No freakin' way! Why should Gen 1 have to rot away in the GBA era while the newer Diamond and Pearl get shiny new remakes?

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire December 28th, 2014 6:00 PM

The suggestion of RG/B re-remakes first seems to have come up after XY but before OrAs came out. Most thought they should do RS first (which they did) and DP too before they think of remaking something with a remake. I guess they could port it for newer fans to delay things. For reremakes I think they should do DP before Yellow and Crystal remakes, B/2W/2 before Emerald and Platinum remakes. Then Xy remakes...
Or maybe from now on they should remake the third versions with Yellow and Crystal being remade before Emerald (yes more Hoenn) and Platinum are, and then the 'Greys' and Z(?) and so on. It'll help keep things cleaner than remaking each region one by one which at this rate seems to be getting messy...

I think we should be able to tell next gen if a great deal of Kanto mons are missing (like with the first remakes), they get a lot of evos (like the Johto mons which hinted at HgSs), or a lot of references+popular demend (HgSs and OrAs). Right now Sinnoh seems to be beating Gen 1 Kanto in popular depend. Part of that I think is because the can of worms another remake of Gen 1 will open for Gen 2 and Gen 3 (we just got HgSs 5 years ago and OrAs this year, imagining reremakes for those two seems a little tiring). Then there's a tiring of remakes in general...most want DP to be the last remake... with a sequel to B2W2 with the Original Dragon as the mascot of that game instead of eventual BW remakes. Hence why the suggestion of GSC sequels instead came up earlier on this thread.

BettyNewbie December 28th, 2014 9:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8551805)
The suggestion of RG/B re-remakes first seems to have come up after XY but before OrAs came out. Most thought they should do RS first (which they did) and DP too before they think of remaking something with a remake. I guess they could port it for newer fans to delay things. For reremakes I think they should do DP before Yellow and Crystal remakes, B/2W/2 before Emerald and Platinum remakes. Then Xy remakes...
Or maybe from now on they should remake the third versions with Yellow and Crystal being remade before Emerald (yes more Hoenn) and Platinum are, and then the 'Greys' and Z(?) and so on. It'll help keep things cleaner than remaking each region one by one which at this rate seems to be getting messy...

And, how are people expected to play the Gen 1 games until then? Neither RBY or FRLG can be played on a 3DS, and they both suffer from horribly outdated graphics and mechanics. Sure, *I* still own my old Yellow and GBA SP (and I don't mind the older gameplay), but not everybody does, nor do they even want to.

(HGSS, at least, can still be played on a 3DS, so it's safe for now. However, the time when DPP come up for remakes will be when the newest handheld loses DS compatibilty, which will leave Gen 2 out in the cold, as well.)

I'd hate for the first two Gens to be left to rot in the past just because of an irrational fear of "re-remakes." The fandom for people who only like the older games (especially Gen 1) is already very small (just look at how inactive the RBY/GSC board is compared to the others), and it will only shrink even more if the Gens are left behind. :(

morrison December 29th, 2014 12:12 AM

Why yellow? it was a special anime version of the game , if any it should be blue/red/green getting a remake.

well well it is not like it is unplayable, you get plenty of (legits) blue and gbc on ebay(in germany anyway) for a penny.

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Game-Boy-Pokemon-Blaue-Edition-/271720279967?pt=DE_PC_Videospiele&hash=item3f43ca6f9f
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Pokemon-Blau-Gameboy-/121530143466?pt=DE_PC_Videospiele&hash=item1c4bc2d2ea
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Pokemon-Blaue-Edition-fur-Game-Boy-Color-Advance-SP-/161535989028?pt=DE_PC_Videospiele&hash=item259c4b9524

FroakieFTW December 29th, 2014 7:49 AM

Meh. I'd buy it if it came out, but we've seen Kanto a million times already. I think it could wait til an anniversary or something.

BettyNewbie December 29th, 2014 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morrison (Post 8552143)
Why yellow? it was a special anime version of the game , if any it should be blue/red/green getting a remake.

Yellow was Gen 1's Third Version, like it or not. Just because it took a few cues from the anime doesn't make it any less canon (or less good, as this argument usually implies).

Oh, yeah, old games on Ebay, what a solution. Get ready to plop down $250.00 for a 15 year old game (more than $200 more than a new copy of OmegaRuby), and if it's any cheaper than that, then there's a 90% chance it's a bootleg. And, have I mentioned that the Gen 1 games suffer from dead batteries, too? Or, that you need a handheld that hasn't been produced in almost a decade to even play them? Or, that they're full of glitches and have graphics like this?

Quote:

Originally Posted by FroakieFTW (Post 8552515)
Meh. I'd buy it if it came out, but we've seen Kanto a million times already. I think it could wait til an anniversary or something.

We've only seen it four times (the last of which was half a decade ago), one of which was because of a sequel, and the other two times because of remakes. And, Gen 1 Kanto =/ Gen 2 Kanto.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire December 29th, 2014 1:53 PM

Again they could put them on the Wii U like they've done with some of the GBA era Mega Man games recently (I hate giving the same suggestions those against RSE remakes gave me...but I think GF is busy with the next Kalos game and Gen VII right now so they may not have any other remakes for the time being planned out. Also Gen VII maybe another Gen V...no remakes of any kind)

If I could go back in time and suggest something to the creators of GF it would be to make FrLg in Gen IV instead with HgSs in Gen V (both would be on the same device and thus be closer in appearance like the original counterparts...that and to add the Pt BF to FrLg, and to make a new one for Gen V, and give XY it's own and to bring Emerald's to OrAs.)

I also feel that the fate of every region will be that of Gen I Kanto...Gen III will join Gen I and II soon enough...

You know Yellow's canoness may be like Emerald's. PWT seems to hint at Emerald being canon but the PWT's post game canoness is debated, and meanwhile Steven appeared as the champion in HgSs (well the acting Champion as he hints at the RS main character), but then again maybe he's just attached to his former title which went to Wallace which went to the player character...
Though then you think about how GF wanted to remake Blue as WaterBlue but opted out for LeafGreen due to Fire and Water not being as peaceful sounding or imagery containing as Fire and Leaf.

If they remake Red and this time due Blue they could go with Sun Red and Water Blue (I got the names for how Steven refers to Latios looking like a Water Stone in ΩR while in αs he apperantanly says Latias looks like a Sun Stone (I would've expected Fire Stone but then again the Fire stone is as orange as Charizard is...not like Latias' true red). Or maybe Dawn (Steven then compared them to Dawn Stones...wait...Dawn...Sinnoh Confirmed!) Yellow.

While Gen 1 Kanto may not be Gen 2 Kanto one of the things fans seem to want most is to revisit the region. For example with Hoenn (while I wanted remakes) some fans didn't care in which form it appeared in (a remake or in a sequel), they just wanted to revisit it. I think that's the mentality Kanto is looked upon. Gen IV Kanto is a finely made 2.5 D version of Gen III Kanto so fans who don't care about the story much probably don't see the need. The desire for a Kanto (and Johto) remake then may not bubble to the surface until HgSs are as old as FrLg are now...which seems like it'll be After or Before DP remakes at this rate (of 5 years (in Japan) between each first time remake 04 for FRLG, 09 for HgSs, 14 for ORAS, so 19 for DP)...

I just hope that they don't dumb down/make them easier the like how they dumbed down ORAS when they do get made...

BettyNewbie December 29th, 2014 3:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8552909)
Again they could put them on the Wii U like they've done with some of the GBA era Mega Man games recently (I hate giving the same suggestions those against RSE remakes gave me...but I think GF is busy with the next Kalos game and Gen VII right now so they may not have any other remakes for the time being planned out. Also Gen VII maybe another Gen V...no remakes of any kind)

If that was a viable solution, then they would've done the same with RSE. Both GF and Nintendo want people to be playing the newest games, not 10 year old ones.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8552909)
If I could go back in time and suggest something to the creators of GF it would be to make FrLg in Gen IV instead with HgSs in Gen V (both would be on the same device and thus be closer in appearance like the original counterparts...that and to add the Pt BF to FrLg, and to make a new one for Gen V, and give XY it's own and to bring Emerald's to OrAs.)

I agree 100%. I have always said that FRLG were made way too soon. While every other remake had, at least, 10 years and a handheld version separating them from the originals, FRLG was only 8 years, at the most, (just 5-6 years, counting international releases) separated from RBY, and it was made for the GB/C's direct successor (which could still play the original games). Think about how it would've felt if we had gotten 3DS Diamond and Pearl remakes this year; that's basically what remaking Gen 1 in 2004 was equivalent to.

Yes, I know they needed a way to complete the National Dex in RSE, but FRLG weren't the only solution to that. They could've always put in the Sevii Islands (or, even, Johto, which would've made RSE direct sequels) as a postgame region for the older Pokémon. And, of course, there were always the GameCube games (which ended up being necessary for completing the Dex, anyways).

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8552909)
I also feel that the fate of every region will be that of Gen I Kanto...Gen III will join Gen I and II soon enough...

I'd hate for that to happen, although, maybe, it is inevitable, especially with the fandom being increasingly focused on gameplay and competitive battling over stories. A lot of people really don't care if they ever see certain regions or characters again, because they're too busy breeding and EV-ing "perfect" Pokémon. :(

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8552909)
You know Yellow's canoness may be like Emerald's. PWT seems to hint at Emerald being canon but the PWT's post game canoness is debated, and meanwhile Steven appeared as the champion in HgSs (well the acting Champion as he hints at the RS main character), but then again maybe he's just attached to his former title which went to Wallace which went to the player character...

Maybe, this is why GF refuses to make direct sequels besides GSC/HGSS and B2W2; they suck at continuity. *eyeroll*

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8552909)
Though then you think about how GF wanted to remake Blue as WaterBlue but opted out for LeafGreen due to Fire and Water not being as peaceful sounding or imagery containing as Fire and Leaf.

If they remake Red and this time due Blue they could go with Sun Red and Water Blue (I got the names for how Steven refers to Latios looking like a Water Stone in ΩR while in αs he apperantanly says Latias looks like a Sun Stone (I would've expected Fire Stone but then again the Fire stone is as orange as Charizard is...not like Latias' true red). Or maybe Dawn (Steven then compared them to Dawn Stones...wait...Dawn...Sinnoh Confirmed!) Yellow.

I agree. I definitely don't want to see another Red/Green pair. I don't care if that's what Japan got; it's not what the rest of the world had, and as someone who had Blue, but not Red, the names "Red" and "Green" don't spark a whole lot of nostalgia for me. If they can't do a solo Yellow, for whatever reason, then, at least, give us international Red and Blue (preferably with Yellow elements mixed in).

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8552909)
While Gen 1 Kanto may not be Gen 2 Kanto one of the things fans seem to want most is to revisit the region. For example with Hoenn (while I wanted remakes) some fans didn't care in which form it appeared in (a remake or in a sequel), they just wanted to revisit it. I think that's the mentality Kanto is looked upon. Gen IV Kanto is a finely made 2.5 D version of Gen III Kanto so fans who don't care about the story much probably don't see the need.

Sad, but true. Again, nowadays, most people are competitive types who only care about gameplay mechanics, so they don't really care if they can ever play as Leaf or speak to Lorelei and Agatha again. Gen 2 Kanto is all the Kanto they need.

(Obviously, the demand for the Sevii Islands is almost non-existent. Unlike Kanto, they literally haven't been seen or heard from since FRLG, but practically nobody--except me, of course--has been calling for them to return in a future game. It seems like most people see them as a throwaway poor man's version of the anime's Orange Islands and want to see a game centered around those, instead.)

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Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8552909)
I just hope that they don't dumb down/make them easier the like how they dumbed down ORAS when they do get made...

Or, the previous Gen 1 remakes, with the Teachy TV, annoying help system, and unnecessarily nerfed levels (including devolving Giovanni's Rhydon to a Rhyhorn, making him the biggest joke of an 8th Gym Leader ever).

BettyNewbie December 29th, 2014 6:50 PM

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Originally Posted by Hiroshi Sotomura (Post 8553148)
Probably worth noting that the credit for the first generation's third version actually goes to Pocket Monsters: Blue. As far as The Pokémon Company is concerned, they were both just alternate versions (別バージョン). They're treated within the same fabric—they're compatible with the older and newer games in the Game Boy line and they're not ignored—moves Pokémon could learn from each alternate version were always counted and considered valid (with the exception of the Odd Egg's moves in Crystal). But as far as their canonicity is concerned, they've been largely ignored (unless you count Red's team). The story additions made to them haven't been referenced since, and the graphics and areas used in Gold/Silver are taken straight from the original Red/Green versions in Japan.

I know about JP Blue, and if anything, it was the "special edition." It was only given to subscribers of a certain magazine (and only in Japan), and it didn't add anything but a few new graphics and sprites (which were later reused in the international releases of Red and Blue).

Yellow, on the other hand, altered the story and even added a few new characters, which is the template that would later be used for Crystal, Emerald, and Platinum. People need to get over their anti-anime bias (or whatever else) and stop ignoring/dismissing Yellow's contribution to the main series.

To get back to a point I mentioned earlier...

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Think about how it would've felt if we had gotten 3DS Diamond and Pearl remakes this year; that's basically what remaking Gen 1 in 2004 was equivalent to.
I actually went and plotted out this theoretical FRLG-style Gen 4 remake:

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If DP remakes were made like FRLG:

- 2014 release
- Made for the 3DS
- All 151 Pokémon of the original Sinnoh Dex (and only that)
- No Megas allowed until postgame
- No cross-region trading/transferring allowed until postgame
- No seasons, character customization, or Pokémon Amie
- No features or story elements from Platinum (these are Diamond/Pearl remakes, dammit)
- Barry walks you step-by-step through your first battle against Starly
- Lucas/Dawn gives you a Teachy TV along with the 5 Poké Balls
- Intrusive help system that can be activated at any time by an easily-accessible button on the Pokétch
- Midway through the game, Barry gives you a Fame Checker device that has no reward other than wasted time
- All major NPCs have the exact same teams as Diamond/Pearl, with two exceptions:

- Volkner is knocked down two levels and has a Luxio instead of Luxray
- The Elite Four and Champion are all knocked down two levels each

- A few random islands are added to the story

- They have little-to-no backstory or development
- They serve no purpose other than to pad the postgame and give you Mega Stones and non-Sinnoh Dex Pokémon
- You visit the first three between Candice and Volkner for no reason other than a tedious, irrelevant sidequest
- More were planned, but they had to be scrapped for time reasons; you only get about half of what was planned in total

- Aaron is from one of the new islands, and after obtaining the National Dex, he leaves his post at the Elite Four to fight off a couple of Galactic Grunts on his home island

- When he returns, the Elite Four and Champion enter rematch mode (Gym Leader rematches, what are those?)
- It is implied that he will later quit the Elite Four to spend the rest of his life fighting Galactic Grunts on that tiny island; he will never be seen or heard from in any other game again


For all of the people who want to see Gen 4 remakes next: Wouldn't these games suck? Wouldn't they feel like a step backwards from even Platinum, let alone any newer games? Wouldn't they feel like rushed, lazy games that were tossed together at the last minute?

Well, that's what Gen 1 is stuck with. :sideways:

BettyNewbie December 29th, 2014 7:08 PM

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Originally Posted by Hiroshi Sotomura (Post 8553406)
I still argue Crystal is the benchmark. I'd argue that it set the fairly large scale that each director's cut version would actually add.

Well, of course, Crystal added more than Yellow, just like Emerald added more than Crystal, and Platinum added more than Emerald. But, none of them would've happened had Yellow not set the standard, first.

But, Crystal didn't borrow things from the anime, so it's automatically "better," right? :rolleyes2:

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire December 29th, 2014 8:21 PM

@ BN. I was going to point out that perhaps if they wouldn't have skipped remakes in Gen V we've would've gotten ORAS there...which is an example easier to imagine as we got something to compare it to. A V ORAS with graphics similar to HgSs instead of 3D graphics. I think that besides the dumbing down they've learned a lot from the past two sets of remakes. Now I hope whatever they do remake next will solve the dumbing down (also HgSs succeeded where ORAS failed, a fun post game battle facility...sadly Emerald had one even more fun than HgSs but it wasn't used due to GF thinking people don't have enough time...yet fans manage to magically find time to EV train and breed perfect mons...).
As for the story...sadly the reason ORAS was dumbed down was due to people wanting to skip the story/not having time. Seriously though it feels so much better to finish something you put a lot of time into and had difficulty with rather than something that has horrible AI...and has nothing else to spend one's time challenging. GF may as well cut down the number of mons back to 151 to make it easier...

Uh sorry for the rant there, back on topic. FrLg's credits reference Red, Green, Blue, and Yellow as the four mascots appear in the credits. So it seems GF acknowledgeds all four. I think Blue deserves to be acknowledged. And really international Red and Blue owe a lot to Jp Blue's as it's superior sprites were used instead of the awful RG sprites. Arguably Blue set things up for Yellow which set things up for GS (using similar graphics) as well as inspiring other third versions. One of the arguements for Crystal setting the benchmark is due to having a mascot connected to the other two (something Jp Blue sets up) instead of a mascot that appeals to fans (people seem to have grown as tired of Pikachu as they did with Kanto at this point...but more seeming to like it's less looked upon evo Raichu) of the anime.
Also arguably Emerald set the benchmark with having the third member of the trio play a role in the third version/sequels. Oh but Platinum did too with formes...Now B2W2 may just set up a two forme sequels thread for the next Kalos games...only time will tell if Kyurem's games will be a permanent addition to the games.

I hope that if GF remakes Yellow the starter will be Pichu holding Light Orb and with the item changed so it'll boost Pichu's stats too. That would make it somewhat different from Yellow. One can then gain access to a Thunder Stone after defeating Team Rocket at Celadon. Also they could add that canonizes Team Rocket's involvement in the birth of Mewtwo which isn't fully canon in the games or even really hinted at. They could have a post game plot where Giovanni goes to Celadon cave with the remnants of Team Rocket and manipulates Mewtwo like in the anime and forces to Mega Evolve (changing back and force between it's Mega evolutions). They could have a 7 or so year-old Silver appear and tell the player how he can stop Mewtwo which can escape Gio's grasp like Groudon and Kyogre did in the Hoenn games. Blue and the males of the E4 minus go and follow Mewtwo and tell the player to find a solution to all of this as she/he's the champ. A young mysterious boy (Silver) gives the player the gene from GSC which should attact Mewtwo to him/her but first must find Mew. Mew can then be found at one Island where Moltres was but before that the player is blocked by Team Rocket members looking for Gio who vanished after losing Mewtwo. They hear Team Rocket is busy looking for an item call the 'Emerald'(a reference to the Ruby and Sapphire in FrLg and how Mew thus far was only obtainable through capture (by event) in Emerald). Leaf/Red (appearing as a Sevii native) help the player and Lorerei battle off Team Rocket and find the stone at Four island but Archer and the executives retrieve it before. They then reach the HQ but are challenged by Team Rocket Excutives P and L. Luckily Oak and Agatha come and help fend them off allowing Leaf and Red an escape they battle A and A in a tag battle and retrieve the Emerald. Giovanni appears and tells the player to hand him the Emerald and battles the player after sending the opposite sex chara flying with his Nidoking. after defeating him Gio tells the player the Emerald actually an orb that is said to have attracted a Green Dragon to save a region in times of trouble. He tells the player he doesn't know how else to stop Mew. The player puts the Jade Orb away and gives Gio the gene and Leaf tells him of Mew, they all go to One island but everyone but the player is repelled by a strange barrier. The player is allowed inside and find Mew who is inside a cavern decorated with cave paintings of a strange looking Mew (Mega Mew) covered in light. The player fights Mew and gains a Mega Stone and the uses the gene to battle Mewtwo which nearly destroys Ember Island if not for Mew which emerges from it's Pokeball and challenges Mewtwo. Then one captures Mew and Giovanni leaves...TBC

BettyNewbie December 29th, 2014 10:15 PM

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Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8553540)
I think that besides the dumbing down they've learned a lot from the past two sets of remakes. Now I hope whatever they do remake next will solve the dumbing down (also HgSs succeeded where ORAS failed, a fun post game battle facility...sadly Emerald had one even more fun than HgSs but it wasn't used due to GF thinking people don't have enough time...yet fans manage to magically find time to EV train and breed perfect mons...).
As for the story...sadly the reason ORAS was dumbed down was due to people wanting to skip the story/not having time. Seriously though it feels so much better to finish something you put a lot of time into and had difficulty with rather than something that has horrible AI...and has nothing else to spend one's time challenging. GF may as well cut down the number of mons back to 151 to make it easier...

Well, that's what the fandom has become, for better or worse. It's all about competitive battling, nowadays. The stories are meant to be buttom-mashed through as quickly as possible so you can get to the "real" part of the game--breeding and EV training. Oh, you wanted a postgame? Here's a battle facility full of cheaters to whip you into shape for the Metagame and give you Battle Points so you can buy Metagame Mandatory items and Move Tutors, because battling other people thousands of miles away with bits of data are what these games are all about. Start number crunching, and bow down to the Church of Smogon! [/sarcasm]

Yeah, I got a little carried away there, but it's the truth. The newest games seem to have been literally designed with competitive battling in mind as the primary goal (or, at least, the primary postgame). How, I long to see another GSC/HGSS-style postgame (or, even, FRLG-style one) again...

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Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8553540)
Uh sorry for the rant there, back on topic. FrLg's credits reference Red, Green, Blue, and Yellow as the four mascots appear in the credits. So it seems GF acknowledgeds all four. I think Blue deserves to be acknowledged. And really international Red and Blue owe a lot to Jp Blue's as it's superior sprites were used instead of the awful RG sprites. Arguably Blue set things up for Yellow which set things up for GS (using similar graphics) as well as inspiring other third versions.

I can see your argument. I just get tired of people dismissing Yellow in favor of JP Blue for blatantly biased reasons like "The anime sucks" or "The JP versions are better/more real." (Bonus points if they start arguing for Adventures being canon.) Like, seriously, dude? :|

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Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8553540)
One of the arguements for Crystal setting the benchmark is due to having a mascot connected to the other two (something Jp Blue sets up) instead of a mascot that appeals to fans (people seem to have grown as tired of Pikachu as they did with Kanto at this point...but more seeming to like it's less looked upon evo Raichu) of the anime.

One tiny quibble with that--Suicune isn't connected to Lugia. It's only connected to Ho-Oh, who happens to be its (and Raikou's and Entei's) Trio Master. (Hence, the reason why Ho-Oh got more backstory and development in GSC than Lugia did.)

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Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8553540)
I hope that if GF remakes Yellow the starter will be Pichu holding Light Orb and with the item changed so it'll boost Pichu's stats too. That would make it somewhat different from Yellow. One can then gain access to a Thunder Stone after defeating Team Rocket at Celadon. Also they could add that canonizes Team Rocket's involvement in the birth of Mewtwo which isn't fully canon in the games or even really hinted at. They could have a post game plot where Giovanni goes to Celadon cave with the remnants of Team Rocket and manipulates Mewtwo like in the anime and forces to Mega Evolve (changing back and force between it's Mega evolutions). They could have a 7 or so year-old Silver appear and tell the player how he can stop Mewtwo which can escape Gio's grasp like Groudon and Kyogre did in the Hoenn games. Blue and the males of the E4 minus go and follow Mewtwo and tell the player to find a solution to all of this as she/he's the champ. A young mysterious boy (Silver) gives the player the gene from GSC which should attact Mewtwo to him/her but first must find Mew. Mew can then be found at one Island where Moltres was but before that the player is blocked by Team Rocket members looking for Gio who vanished after losing Mewtwo. They hear Team Rocket is busy looking for an item call the 'Emerald'(a reference to the Ruby and Sapphire in FrLg and how Mew thus far was only obtainable through capture (by event) in Emerald). Leaf/Red (appearing as a Sevii native) help the player and Lorerei battle off Team Rocket and find the stone at Four island but Archer and the executives retrieve it before. They then reach the HQ but are challenged by Team Rocket Excutives P and L. Luckily Oak and Agatha come and help fend them off allowing Leaf and Red an escape they battle A and A in a tag battle and retrieve the Emerald. Giovanni appears and tells the player to hand him the Emerald and battles the player after sending the opposite sex chara flying with his Nidoking. after defeating him Gio tells the player the Emerald actually an orb that is said to have attracted a Green Dragon to save a region in times of trouble. He tells the player he doesn't know how else to stop Mew. The player puts the Jade Orb away and gives Gio the gene and Leaf tells him of Mew, they all go to One island but everyone but the player is repelled by a strange barrier. The player is allowed inside and find Mew who is inside a cavern decorated with cave paintings of a strange looking Mew (Mega Mew) covered in light. The player fights Mew and gains a Mega Stone and the uses the gene to battle Mewtwo which nearly destroys Ember Island if not for Mew which emerges from it's Pokeball and challenges Mewtwo. Then one captures Mew and Giovanni leaves...TBC

I'm not really... down with that. I'm still against the idea of starting with Pichu (even if you retcon it to make it stronger), and while I want to see a Team Rocket/Mewtwo story explored, this is just too over the top. Big no to the Jade Orb/Rayquaza stuff, especially, and I'm uncomfortable with giving an event Pokémon (Mew) that big of a role (as much as I loathe event Pokémon). You have some good ideas, but I'm just not feeling your execution.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire December 30th, 2014 11:20 AM

I did go over the top didn't I? I'm a fan of over the top endings.

I was thinking about what Gen I re-remakes and Gen II re-remakes could offer/ reasons for they should be remade.

Gen I access to an older story, but nothing new sadly to add to it's starters or mascots (same thing though for Kanto minus Pikachu) like RS' remake did. In terms of story they could make Team Rocket do more dark stuff?

Gen II, access to a not so old story but with new forms of the starters and Mega Mascots/legends.

BettyNewbie December 30th, 2014 1:39 PM

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Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8554440)
I did go over the top didn't I? I'm a fan of over the top endings.

I'm more into smaller-scale, more realistic stories (one reason why I prefer Gens 1 and 2 to Gens 3 and 4). Team Rocket are the kinds of villains who exist in real life, a greedy corporation who only cares about making money, even if it's at the expense of the environment or the well-being of Pokémon. (The Grunts' preferences for Poison Types symbolizes this.) It's better to expand TR from that instead of trying to remake them in the image of Magma/Aqua or Galactic.

For example, maybe we could get a little bit of the Grunts' perspective, show them as being underpaid and unappreciated teenagers and young adults who were plucked off the streets with the promise of making money, only to find themselves slaving away for an abusive employer. (Jessie and James would be a good outlet for this story, and it would help set them apart from their anime counterparts and make them true game characters.)

And, we could also get a closer look on the ecological terror Team Rocket has wrought on Kanto. Let's see them violently tearing Mt. Moon apart for fossils, or dumping waste into that pond in Celadon. Cinnabar Mansion should look like a bombed out wasteland.

And, Mewtwo could be depicted as a victim of horrible abuse from Giovanni. It was pushed to the breaking point, and destroyed Cinnabar Mansion in anger, flying off to Cerulean Cave to hide out in peace. We could also show Silver (also horribly abused and neglected by Giovanni) striking up a connection with Mewtwo and following it to Cerulean Cave.

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Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8554440)
Gen I access to an older story, but nothing new sadly to add to it's starters or mascots (same thing though for Kanto minus Pikachu) like RS' remake did.

Well, there's always new Megas. Dragonite is currently the only pre-Gen 5 Pseudo to not have one, and a Gen 1 remake would be a natural place to give it one. And, if Pidgeot and Beedrill have them, then why not Fearow and Butterfree, as well? Machamp and Golem should get Megas for parity with Alakazam and Gengar, and Jynx *needs* a Mega to make up for being passed over for an evolution in Gen 4. There are also several Gen 1 Pokémon, such as Tauros, Lapras, and Snorlax, who are too large/strong to evolve normally, yet aren't strong enough to hold their own in multiplayer (which is what matters, nowadays); Mega Evolutions were made for these kinds of Pokémon (see Kangaskhan).

There's also new trainer art. Official arts are now VS sprites, and pretty much any trainer art that predates Gen 4, at the earliest, isn't suitable for this purpose. Character designs changed a lot in Gens 4 and 5, and the pre-Gen 4 art doesn't tend to be of good picture quality, either. While most of the Gen 1 characters got new art in HGSS, there are five who didn't--Red, Leaf, Giovanni, Lorelei, and Agatha. (Who, along with Kris and Juan, also happen to be the only characters left in the entire series without modern artwork.) Without newer art, it will be harder to bring them back as opponents in future games, and a Gen 1 remake is a natural place to give them new art.

Gen 2, I'll get to later...

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire December 30th, 2014 3:19 PM

Team Rocket isn't a corporation...at least not in the typical sense. It's based off of the Yakuza (well the Mafia outside of Japan).

Mega Dragonite interestingly would fit a Gen II re-remake too...
But yeah to the rest of them which fit Kanto best. Brock could get Mega Golem in the rematches, Misty could get Mega Starmie(?), Lt. Surge Mega Raichu, Erika Mega Vileplume, Koga Mega Crobat, Sabrina Mega Alakazam, 7th gym leader who's name is skipping my head get's Mega Magmortar. Giovanni can get Mega Nidoking which he uses in the last match against him. Post game Blue replaces Giovanni and Lance takes the place as acting Champ (like how Steven asks Wallace to be (if/when he goes on a journey despite having the MC as recognized champion) in the end of the Delta Episode). Lance can then get Mega Dragonite. Meanwhile Agatha get's Mega Gengar, Lorelei get's Mega Slobro?, Bruno get's Mega Machamp, and Lance's replacement forget her name get's Mega...Houndoom? (the E4 will then have 3 women opposite of Gen II's 3 men E4).

BettyNewbie December 30th, 2014 3:48 PM

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Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8554766)
Team Rocket isn't a corporation...at least not in the typical sense. It's based off of the Yakuza (well the Mafia outside of Japan).

They're still pretty close to being one, and that's where remakes should take them, capitalism run amok. My biggest complaint with Gen 6, as a whole, is that it veered way too much off into epic fantasy territory with giant 3000 year old men and multi-dimensional time travelers, all paired with the already ridiculously unrealistic plot of the Hoenn games. I can't relate to any of that, and it reads more like someone's fanfic of what a Pokémon game should be. I'd rather Pokémon *not* turn into Zelda, thank you very much.

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Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8554766)
Mega Dragonite interestingly would fit a Gen II re-remake too...
But yeah to the rest of them which fit Kanto best. Brock could get Mega Golem in the rematches, Misty could get Mega Starmie(?), Lt. Surge Mega Raichu, Erika Mega Vileplume, Koga Mega Crobat, Sabrina Mega Alakazam, 7th gym leader who's name is skipping my head get's Mega Magmortar. Giovanni can get Mega Nidoking which he uses in the last match against him. Post game Blue replaces Giovanni and Lance takes the place as acting Champ (like how Steven asks Wallace to be (if/when he goes on a journey despite having the MC as recognized champion) in the end of the Delta Episode). Lance can then get Mega Dragonite. Meanwhile Agatha get's Mega Gengar, Lorelei get's Mega Slobro?, Bruno get's Mega Machamp, and Lance's replacement forget her name get's Mega...Houndoom? (the E4 will then have 3 women opposite of Gen II's 3 men E4).

The 7th Gym Leader is Blaine, and "Lance's replacement" is Karen, FYI.

I have a few quibbles with some of these Megas. Erika should have Bellossom (Grass/Fairy) instead of Vileplume, as that was her ace in GSC/HGSS (evolved from the Gloom from Yellow), and Giovanni should have Rhyperior instead of Nidoking, as his ace has always been the Rhyhorn line. And, Lorelei should have either Jynx (Ice/Fairy) or Lapras (Water or Water/Fairy), as those have always been her aces (probably the latter, knowing how much GF hates the former).

I like the idea of Viridian Gym and the E4 changing to foreshadow Gen 2. It's about time that we had a female-dominated E4, even if only temporarily, and it would be a great excuse to flesh out Karen more (one of my faves, along with Lorelei and Lance).

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire December 30th, 2014 7:00 PM

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Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8554803)
They're still pretty close to being one, and that's where remakes should take them, capitalism run amok. My biggest complaint with Gen 6, as a whole, is that it veered way too much off into epic fantasy territory with giant 3000 year old men and multi-dimensional time travelers, all paired with the already ridiculously unrealistic plot of the Hoenn games. I can't relate to any of that, and it reads more like someone's fanfic of what a Pokémon game should be. I'd rather Pokémon *not* turn into Zelda, thank you very much.



The 7th Gym Leader is Blaine, and "Lance's replacement" is Karen, FYI.

I have a few quibbles with some of these Megas. Erika should have Bellossom (Grass/Fairy) instead of Vileplume, as that was her ace in GSC/HGSS (evolved from the Gloom from Yellow), and Giovanni should have Rhyperior instead of Nidoking, as his ace has always been the Rhyhorn line. And, Lorelei should have either Jynx (Ice/Fairy) or Lapras (Water or Water/Fairy), as those have always been her aces (probably the latter, knowing how much GF hates the former).

I like the idea of Viridian Gym and the E4 changing to foreshadow Gen 2. It's about time that we had a female-dominated E4, if only temporarily, and it would be a great excuse to flesh out Karen more (one of my faves, along with Lorelei and Lance).

Not really...only resemblance I see is the for profit thing and even small stores have that going on...the only true corporation we see in the Kanto games is Silph Co. and they're nice people from what we've seen (despite what Lysander and Archie have said about humans this Generation they haven't shown anything that makes humans apart from the evil teams come off as greedy or destructive in all six Gens. Also if Team Rocket were treated as a Co. Silph Co. offers a nice contrast, showing not all corporations are evil). Speaking of Silph co. I'll like for Kanto to get it's own Pokegear expy. Or maybe even the Pokegear. Maybe the Pokegear 7?

Then Bellossom it should be. Really? Giovanni lacks Rhyperior (or any member of the line) in his HgSs team while he has the Nidoroyals in all of his teams. I think Mega Rhyperior should be pure Ground with Solid Rock as it's ability to parallel Mega Aggron (Aggron's line is an expy of the Rhyhorn line down to the whole military (samurai for Aggron) theme going on with it's Mega to parallel Rhyperior.)

Cerberus87 December 30th, 2014 7:15 PM

I just want Yellow to be forgotten... It was a non-canon game anyway and only worth because of the sprites and certain small updates to movepools.

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Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8555040)
Not really...only resemblance I see is the for profit thing and even small stores have that going on...the only true corporation we see in the Kanto games is Silph Co. and they're nice people from what we've seen (despite what Lysander and Archie have said about humans this Generation they haven't shown anything that makes humans apart from the evil teams come off as greedy or destructive in all six Gens. Also if Team Rocket were treated as a Co. Silph Co. offers a nice contrast, showing not all corporations are evil). Speaking of Silph co. I'll like for Kanto to get it's own Pokegear expy. Or maybe even the Pokegear. Maybe the Pokegear 7?

Then Bellossom it should be. Really? Giovanni lacks Rhyperior (or any member of the line) in his HgSs team while he has the Nidoroyals in all of his teams. I think Mega Rhyperior should be pure Ground with Solid Rock as it's ability to parallel Mega Aggron (Aggron's line is an expy of the Rhyhorn line down to the whole military (samurai for Aggron) theme going on with it's Mega to parallel Rhyperior.)

Mega Rhyperior would be a Rock type, because he has Rock Wrecker and it would be really silly for him to be pure Ground and have the ultimate Rock-type move.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire December 30th, 2014 7:55 PM

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Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8555060)
I just want Yellow to be forgotten... It was a non-canon game anyway and only worth because of the sprites and certain small updates to movepools.



Mega Rhyperior would be a Rock type, because he has Rock Wrecker and it would be really silly for him to be pure Ground and have the ultimate Rock-type move.

I guess that's true, but then again they gave Genesect a non-bug signature move...
I wouldn't like it though if Giovanni got a non Ground type as his Mega though...that'll be like Winona getting Mega Altaria right there.

GF recognizes Yellow in FrLg's credits so it's canoness may be debatable (also going by a narrow view of what is canon DP aren't canon as Pt is the Canon, like wise for RS...maybe. Yet RS got remakes and DP is likely to get them too.) in the long run of things.

Cerberus87 December 30th, 2014 8:16 PM

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Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8555153)
I guess that's true, but then again they gave Genesect a non-bug signature move...
I wouldn't like it though if Giovanni got a non Ground type as his Mega though...that'll be like Winona getting Mega Altaria right there.

GF recognizes Yellow in FrLg's credits so it's canoness may be debatable (also going by a narrow view of what is canon DP aren't canon as Pt is the Canon, like wise for RS...maybe. Yet RS got remakes and DP is likely to get them too.) in the long run of things.

It's not canon because Blue's team is completely different, Jessie and James are never mentioned outside of the game, etc.

It was just a spinoff developed to capitalize on the anime.

Red's team mirrors what he gets in Yellow, though.

BettyNewbie December 30th, 2014 8:17 PM

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Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8555060)
I just want Yellow to be forgotten... It was a non-canon game anyway and only worth because of the sprites and certain small updates to movepools.

GSC disagree with you (especially, when it comes to Red's team). If you hate the game, fine, but leave your bias at the door. I can't stand RSE, myself, but I'd never claim that they weren't canon because of that.

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Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8555040)
Not really...only resemblance I see is the for profit thing and even small stores have that going on...the only true corporation we see in the Kanto games is Silph Co. and they're nice people from what we've seen (despite what Lysander and Archie have said about humans this Generation they haven't shown anything that makes humans apart from the evil teams come off as greedy or destructive in all six Gens. Also if Team Rocket were treated as a Co. Silph Co. offers a nice contrast, showing not all corporations are evil).

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this. When I look at Team Rocket, all I see are greedy, destructive capitalists, which is exactly how I'd want them to be portrayed in a remake. Show us capitalism run amok, just like you see in the real world all too much.

Of course, being a bigger fan of the Hoenn games, I can see why you'd want TR to be portrayed as more fantastical villains with more "epic" goals like Magma and Aqua. We obviously have different tastes in storytelling. ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8555060)
I'll like for Kanto to get it's own Pokegear expy. Or maybe even the Pokegear. Maybe the Pokegear 7?

I agree. I'd go with the Pokégear, itself, to keep the connection with Gen 2. (BW and B2W2 both had the C-Gear, after all.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8555060)
Really? Giovanni lacks Rhyperior (or any member of the line) in his HgSs team while he has the Nidoroyals in all of his teams.

It was his ace in the vast majority of his appearances (including B2W2), though, and it's a Pokémon that's associated with him. Plus, it's a more "neutral" pick than the Nidoroyals (who are gender counterparts).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8555060)
I think Mega Rhyperior should be pure Ground with Solid Rock as it's ability to parallel Mega Aggron (Aggron's line is an expy of the Rhyhorn line down to the whole military (samurai for Aggron) theme going on with it's Mega to parallel Rhyperior.)

I'm down with that. Ground/Rock is a horrible typing, anyways.

Cerberus87 December 30th, 2014 8:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8555224)
GSC disagree with you (especially, when it comes to Red's team). If you hate the game, fine, but leave your bias at the door. I can't stand RSE, myself, but I'd never claim that they weren't canon because of that.

Red's team is the ONLY thing from Yellow that was canonized. All the other teams are different and based on RGB.

Changes that Yellow introduced: Red starting with Pikachu and getting all the Kanto starters, Blue starting with Eevee, Jessie and James. The only thing they kept from Yellow was Red getting all the starters + Pikachu, the rest are from RGB. Blue's team in GSC is his team from RB without the starters. Jessie and James aren't mentioned anywhere in GSC either, nor in any subsequent games. And even Red can get Lapras/Eevee and Snorlax in RB, too.

RSE is my least favorite gen but they're obviously canon, unlike Yellow.

BettyNewbie December 30th, 2014 8:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8555249)
Red's team is the ONLY thing from Yellow that was canonized. All the other teams are different and based on RGB.

Not so! I posted this at another site:

Quote:

The most canon version of Generation 1's story is undoubtedly Yellow. There's just no getting around Red's canon team. Why else would he have an overleveled Pikachu as his ace if it wasn't his (non-evolving) starter? And, in what other game could you get all three Kanto starters without trading? Based on Snorlax and Espeon, his team was clearly meant to be entirely made up of Gift/Event Pokémon, and Yellow is the only game where all of those Pokémon were given to you.

But, it's more than just Red's team. It's Koga and Erika, as well. Koga's ace was Weezing in Red/Blue, while it was Venomoth in Yellow. Guess which was on his GSC team? (Hint: It was the violet moth.)

Similarly, Erika's ace was Vileplume in Red/Blue, while it was Gloom in Yellow. Her ace was Bellossom in GSC. Bellossom comes from Gloom, not Vileplume. You do the math.

And, it's also worth pointing out that Red and Blue's GSC sprites are direct recolors of their sprites from Yellow. The Yellow sprites also happen to more closely resemble their official art than the Red and Blue sprites.

The only thing in GSC that explicitly points back to Red/Blue instead of Yellow is Blue's team, but even then, it didn't include a starter, so that doesn't mean a whole lot. And, that's just one Red/Blue reference among all of these Yellow references.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8555249)
Jessie and James aren't mentioned anywhere in GSC either, nor in any subsequent games.

By that standard, Lorelei and Agatha aren't canon characters, either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8555249)
RSE is my least favorite gen but they're obviously canon, unlike Yellow.

You wouldn't vehemently deny that a main series game was canon unless you absolutely hated it. And, let me guess why, "The anime sucks," right? :rolleyes2:

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire December 30th, 2014 9:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8555224)
GSC disagree with you (especially, when it comes to Red's team). If you hate the game, fine, but leave your bias at the door. I can't stand RSE, myself, but I'd never claim that they weren't canon because of that.



We'll just have to agree to disagree on this. When I look at Team Rocket, all I see are greedy, destructive capitalists, which is exactly how I'd want them to be portrayed in a remake. Show us capitalism run amok, just like you see in the real world all too much.

Of course, being a bigger fan of the Hoenn games, I can see why you'd want TR to be portrayed as more fantastical villains with more "epic" goals like Magma and Aqua. We obviously have different tastes in storytelling. ;)



I agree. I'd go with the Pokégear, itself, to keep the connection with Gen 2. (BW and B2W2 both had the C-Gear, after all.)



It was his ace in the vast majority of his appearances (including B2W2), though, and it's a Pokémon that's associated with him. Plus, it's a more "neutral" pick than the Nidoroyals (who are gender counterparts).



I'm down with that. Ground/Rock is a horrible typing, anyways.

My stance on Team Rocket not being a corp has nothing to do with my like for more fantastical teams xD (they're a black market group which has existed in nearly all economic/political systems at least in modern times such as in Socialism to Capitalism, to Fascism, to Communism).

I wouldn't mind an evil team that just did things like Team Rocket does but ends up causing the wrath of nature (the legendary) instead of having another Cyrus or Lysander...or Archie or Maxie (the four of which had the zanniest plots). Though controlling a legendary for Team Rocket wouldn't be so out of place as their greed could lead them to seeking the ultimate power in their world (Mewtwo in the case of Kanto). But that last one would simply make Giovanni into a Ghetsis like character...minus the crazy...
Speaking of Greed I recall reading about how Yakuza (which TR is based on) supposedly were samurai and had to protect the people. They could have it that Giovanni made TR to combat crime but then his greed cause it to become a criminal group itself.
How did you ended up quoting Cerberus for something I said (the Pokegear 7 thing) 0_o...hate it when the site glitches.

If they do dual versions he could have one Nidoroyal in each.

Anyways earlier I mentioned Mew. After playing the Delta Episode I have the feeling that GF will make one event legend obtainable in game to cut down on event mons, at least in remakes. With DP remakes having Giratina versus Arceus. FrLg remakes would have Mewtwo versus Mew. HgSs could have a post game plot dealing with Celebi.

Cerberus87 December 30th, 2014 9:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8555267)
The most canon version of Generation 1's story is undoubtedly Yellow. There's just no getting around Red's canon team. Why else would he have an overleveled Pikachu as his ace if it wasn't his (non-evolving) starter? And, in what other game could you get all three Kanto starters without trading? Based on Snorlax and Espeon, his team was clearly meant to be entirely made up of Gift/Event Pokémon, and Yellow is the only game where all of those Pokémon were given to you.

But, it's more than just Red's team. It's Koga and Erika, as well. Koga's ace was Weezing in Red/Blue, while it was Venomoth in Yellow. Guess which was on his GSC team? (Hint: It was the violet moth.)

Similarly, Erika's ace was Vileplume in Red/Blue, while it was Gloom in Yellow. Her ace was Bellossom in GSC. Bellossom comes from Gloom, not Vileplume. You do the math.

And, it's also worth pointing out that Red and Blue's GSC sprites are direct recolors of their sprites from Yellow. The Yellow sprites also happen to more closely resemble their official art than the Red and Blue sprites.

The only thing in GSC that explicitly points back to Red/Blue instead of Yellow is Blue's team, but even then, it didn't include a starter, so that doesn't mean a whole lot. And, that's just one Red/Blue reference among all of these Yellow references.

Other gym leaders are completely different. Koga's ace is Crobat, not Venomoth, and Muk comes from his RGB team, as he doesn't have Muk in Yellow (only Venonat/Venomoth). Sabrina has Mr.Mime in RGB and GSC, while she doesn't in Yellow. Blaine has Magmar in GSC as a nod to the anime, but, ironically, as Yellow was based on the anime, he still has Arcanine as his ace in that game (in GSC it was Rapidash) and he doesn't have Magmar. Finally, Giovanni lacks Persian in all his subsequent in-game appearances. He only has Persian in Stadium, but, guess what, Stadium isn't canon!

Erika having Bellossom instead of Vileplume was probably just a retcon to showcase a Johto Pokémon, not a nod to Yellow.

Koga doesn't have Weezing in GSC, but Janine does. A possible explanation could be that the Pokémon was passed down to her.

Anyway, why are we discussing GSC art when it's no longer canon anyway, with the release of HGSS? Red's team in HGSS is a bigger nod to the anime than to Yellow, since Ash never had an Eevee but he did have a Lapras.

And you act like Blue's team is nothing when it's probably one of the biggest things that connect RGB and GSC, considering Blue's prominence in the game and status as an enemy trainer. The art doesn't mean a whole lot, they probably went with what was most updated at the time, since the RB sprites were really old. Blue's team in GSC, however, is the same as in RGB, not Yellow.

If Yellow was really canon, they wouldn't have completely ignored it when they made FRLG, and they wouldn't have bothered creating a Pokémon Origins anime since the regular anime would be the canon thing for all things 1st gen.

Speaking of Pokémon Origins, I really think it's the biggest reason why they won't remake 1st gen again. The alternate dimension with Mega Evolution in Kanto (as per Zinnia's words on the two Hoenns) was already shown in Origins. There's no need for another set of games in Kanto.

morrison December 31st, 2014 8:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8552686)
Yellow was Gen 1's Third Version, like it or not. Just because it took a few cues from the anime doesn't make it any less canon (or less good, as this argument usually implies).



Oh, yeah, old games on Ebay, what a solution. Get ready to plop down $250.00 for a 15 year old game (more than $200 more than a new copy of OmegaRuby), and if it's any cheaper than that, then there's a 90% chance it's a bootleg. And, have I mentioned that the Gen 1 games suffer from dead batteries, too? Or, that you need a handheld that hasn't been produced in almost a decade to even play them? Or, that they're full of glitches and have graphics like this?



We've only seen it four times (the last of which was half a decade ago), one of which was because of a sequel, and the other two times because of remakes. And, Gen 1 Kanto =/ Gen 2 Kanto.

sorry did you even look at the links ? plenty of german games around from private sellers lol. besides you can still use emulators anyway. and the handheld is as easy to get used on ebay for no cost at all . i had an old dark gba and got myself a gba spa actually it was a gameshop for used games. i paid 100 euro for blue, sapphire and a gba sp. there were stll plenty of other blue and red, yellow etc. i d like a remake but it should be a new story, i aint go hunting through silph co again... kanto with a new story.

BettyNewbie December 31st, 2014 9:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8555476)
Other gym leaders are completely different. Koga's ace is Crobat, not Venomoth, and Muk comes from his RGB team, as he doesn't have Muk in Yellow (only Venonat/Venomoth). Sabrina has Mr.Mime in RGB and GSC, while she doesn't in Yellow.

It's assumed that they added the Pokémon to their teams in-between Gens 1 and 2, because otherwise, they'd be using teams of nothing but Venonat/Venomoth and Abra/Kadabra/Alakazam. :|

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8555476)
Blaine has Magmar in GSC as a nod to the anime, but, ironically, as Yellow was based on the anime, he still has Arcanine as his ace in that game (in GSC it was Rapidash) and he doesn't have Magmar..

They changed Blaine's ace in Gen 2 so he wouldn't have the same one as Blue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8555476)
Erika having Bellossom instead of Vileplume was probably just a retcon to showcase a Johto Pokémon, not a nod to Yellow.

So, you would rather accept a RETCON than argue for that "icky anime game" being canon? Give me a damn break! :rolleyes2:

And, Bellossom is a Generation 2 Pokémon, not a "Johto Pokémon."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8555476)
Koga doesn't have Weezing in GSC, but Janine does. A possible explanation could be that the Pokémon was passed down to her.

Which is only a HEADCANON.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8555476)
Anyway, why are we discussing GSC art when it's no longer canon anyway, with the release of HGSS? Red's team in HGSS is a bigger nod to the anime than to Yellow, since Ash never had an Eevee but he did have a Lapras.

Because, the original thread was about the ORIGINAL games, not the remakes. (Which are a different timeline.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8555476)
And you act like Blue's team is nothing when it's probably one of the biggest things that connect RGB and GSC, considering Blue's prominence in the game and status as an enemy trainer.

Because, it's the only EXPLICIT RB reference, and he HAS NO STARTER.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8555476)
If Yellow was really canon, they wouldn't have completely ignored it when they made FRLG

Based on that logic, Emerald isn't canon, either. GF hates Third Versions, in general. (Which is what Yellow is, whine and moan about it all you want.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8555476)
and they wouldn't have bothered creating a Pokémon Origins anime since the regular anime would be the canon thing for all things 1st gen.

They made Origins as a marketing ploy to get older Gen fans excited for XY, not to serve as a "replacement" for the anime with Ash (neither of which will EVER be game canon).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8555476)
Speaking of Pokémon Origins, I really think it's the biggest reason why they won't remake 1st gen again. The alternate dimension with Mega Evolution in Kanto (as per Zinnia's words on the two Hoenns) was already shown in Origins. There's no need for another set of games in Kanto.

Again, Origins IS NOT CANON. It's an ADAPTATION, and nothing more. It's NOT a replacement for a new remake and frankly, I don't WANT it to be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by morrison (Post 8556357)
sorry did you even look at the links ? plenty of german games around from private sellers lol. besides you can still use emulators anyway. and the handheld is as easy to get used on ebay for no cost at all . i had an old dark gba and got myself a gba spa actually it was a gameshop for used games. i paid 100 euro for blue, sapphire and a gba sp. there were stll plenty of other blue and red, yellow etc. i d like a remake but it should be a new story, i aint go hunting through silph co again... kanto with a new story.

Emulators will never be a solution, as they aren't 100% legal and have no access with the current games. And, it's not a remake if it has a brand-new story; it's a sequel, which can't happen anyways, since there wouldn't be anything for it to be a sequel of.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8555460)
I wouldn't mind an evil team that just did things like Team Rocket does but ends up causing the wrath of nature (the legendary) instead of having another Cyrus or Lysander...or Archie or Maxie (the four of which had the zanniest plots). Though controlling a legendary for Team Rocket wouldn't be so out of place as their greed could lead them to seeking the ultimate power in their world (Mewtwo in the case of Kanto). But that last one would simply make Giovanni into a Ghetsis like character...minus the crazy...
Speaking of Greed I recall reading about how Yakuza (which TR is based on) supposedly were samurai and had to protect the people. They could have it that Giovanni made TR to combat crime but then his greed cause it to become a criminal group itself.

Sorry, but I have zero interest in that story. Too much epic fantasy, and not enough realism. It turns the world of Gen 1 into something I can't relate to at all. -_-

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8555460)
How did you ended up quoting Cerberus for something I said (the Pokegear 7 thing) 0_o...hate it when the site glitches.

Whoops, I hate that, too.

morrison December 31st, 2014 2:00 PM

Who says it has to be a sequel. ? Take kanto make a new story no matter what the time frame is. also they can still reboot the 1st gen, as just because it doesnt fit in current canon doesnt mean they cant reboot it so it fits. so many different canons next to each other you cant really call them canon rather than different realities.

BettyNewbie December 31st, 2014 2:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morrison (Post 8556809)
Who says it has to be a sequel. ? Take kanto make a new story no matter what the time frame is. also they can still reboot the 1st gen, as just because it doesnt fit in current canon doesnt mean they cant reboot it so it fits. so many different canons next to each other you cant really call them canon rather than different realities.

Well, that's actually what I want to see, Gen 1 rebooted to fit with the new timeline. I'd hate to see another copy/paste remake like FRLG.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire December 31st, 2014 6:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8556878)
Well, that's actually what I want to see, Gen 1 rebooted to fit with the new timeline. I'd hate to see another copy/paste remake like FRLG.

Speaking of copy and paste OrAs was a little too faithful to the original gym teams of RS in terms of mons (I think the others have been too minus a few downgrades such as Giovanni's Rhydon). Another Kanto remake may end up having the gym leaders be a little too faithful to FrLg or RGB/Y's teams.


As for GF hating third versions...well they did add in elements of Crystal and Emerald into the game, especially the post game with their capture being where you get them in their third versions (I think as I never played crystal nor looked it up much) so they don't hate them that much. Only Yellow was ignored in the remakes feature wise.


Btw while FrLg were praised by professional critics one of the critiques they had with the games was that it wasn't all that graphically different from RS (funny how RS's remakes though do look more graphically better than XY do...so were HgSs better looking than Pt before them too). Gf said in HgSs that they like too keep the story as close to the originals as possible while making the games a new expereience. I think OrAs was a good balance of change and keeping it the same for them to follow for a new Kanto remake.

BettyNewbie December 31st, 2014 7:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8557150)
Speaking of copy and paste OrAs was a little too faithful to the original gym teams of RS in terms of mons (I think the others have been too minus a few downgrades such as Giovanni's Rhydon). Another Kanto remake may end up having the gym leaders be a little too faithful to FrLg or RGB/Y's teams.

Yuck, I hope not. To be honest, outside of a few things like the VS Seeker and the Sevii Islands (which should look very different, anyways), new Gen 1 remakes would be wise to just ignore FRLG and act like they were remaking the original games from scratch. One of the biggest reasons for new Gen 1 remakes is how flawed and poorly-handled FRLG were, anyways, and the new games should not commit those same mistakes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8557150)
As for GF hating third versions...well they did add in elements of Crystal and Emerald into the game, especially the post game with their capture being where you get them in their third versions (I think as I never played crystal nor looked it up much) so they don't hate them that much. Only Yellow was ignored in the remakes feature wise.

Emerald was largely ignored as well, outside of a cameo appearance of Wallace's Champion team in the Delta Episode thing. The Gym Leaders all had their RS teams (to the disappointment of many fans), the plot followed RS, and Emerald exclusives like Juan and the Battle Frontier were nowhere to be found (also to the disappointment of many fans). Only Crystal has been fully acknowledged by its Gen's remakes, which is a pretty lousy track record, IMO. (And, doesn't bode well for Platinum in eventual Gen 4 remakes.)

If Generation 5 and (probably) Generation 6 are anything to go by, GF seems to have largely abandoned the idea of Third Versions in favor of sequels, and seeing as B2W2 ended up selling better than any Third Version besides Yellow (7.81 million vs Crystal's 6.39 million, Emerald's 6.41 million, and Platinum's 7.59 million; the only reason B2W2's sales weren't even higher was because the games were released for a dying handheld), it's a wise financial decision, especially now that XY (13.29 million) have dethroned RS (15.85 million) as the franchise's worst-selling paired games.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8557150)
Btw while FrLg were praised by professional critics one of the critiques they had with the games was that it wasn't all that graphically different from RS (funny how RS's remakes though do look more graphically better than XY do...so were HgSs better looking than Pt before them too).

That's because they didn't take the time to make FRLG look any better. Yet again, another reason why they should've waited until Gen 4 to make the games.

(And, the Gen 3 games already had pretty mediocre graphics by GBA standards, IMO. Just look at some of the hacks on this very site to see what the handheld was actually capable of.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8557150)
Gf said in HgSs that they like too keep the story as close to the originals as possible while making the games a new expereience. I think OrAs was a good balance of change and keeping it the same for them to follow for a new Kanto remake.

Well, HGSS and ORAS did an acceptable job of of that. It was FRLG that was a lazy copy/paste.

Cerberus87 December 31st, 2014 8:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8556432)
It's assumed that they added the Pokémon to their teams in-between Gens 1 and 2, because otherwise, they'd be using teams of nothing but Venonat/Venomoth and Abra/Kadabra/Alakazam. :|

You criticize me for arguing a retcon yet you go with an assumption yourself? :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8556432)
They changed Blaine's ace in Gen 2 so he wouldn't have the same one as Blue.

I did some research before replying to your earlier post and, at least according to Blue's GSC team, he doesn't have an ace in those games. Exeggutor, Arcanine and Gyarados, which are his highest leveled Pokémon, are all at the same levels. GF has had characters with the same aces in the past. In HGSS, Falkner and Blue share an ace (as weird as it is for Blue's ace to be Pidgeot). Blaine has Magmortar as his ace in the HGSS rematch, which is the same ace as Flint, and Bertha and Giovanni share aces, too.

Blaine, however, is an unique example. His canon ace, going by the PWT, is Arcanine, which is in tune with RGBY and FRLG. Blaine should've had Magmar in Yellow, but I think the anime hadn't reached Cinnabar Gym yet when Yellow was developed. Still, he has Ninetales in Yellow, which he also does in the anime. In the other games, his ace is either Rapidash (GSC, HGSS) or Magmortar (HGSS rematch).

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8556432)
So, you would rather accept a RETCON than argue for that "icky anime game" being canon? Give me a damn break! :rolleyes2:

And, Bellossom is a Generation 2 Pokémon, not a "Johto Pokémon."

It could've originated in Johto because you can only find Sun Stones in Johto, at least in GSC.

But it's a matter of terminology, really. I call 2nd gen Pokémon "Johto Pokémon" and will build Johto-only teams which consist of only 2nd gen Pokémon despite some of them being found only in Kanto in the games (one of the examples is in my sig).

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8556432)
Which is only a HEADCANON.

It's still a valid possibility. Why would Koga and Janine have Muk and Weezing if it wasn't due to a nod to RB?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8556432)
Because, the original thread was about the ORIGINAL games, not the remakes. (Which are a different timeline.)

I consider the GB games to have been superceded by their remakes, as most of the fandom does.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8556432)
Because, it's the only EXPLICIT RB reference, and he HAS NO STARTER.

Of course he has no starter. They didn't want to canonize one of the RGB starters, and they couldn't either since Red has Pikachu. But the whole team is the same from RGB, and he doesn't have the Eevee he started with in Yellow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8556432)
Based on that logic, Emerald isn't canon, either. GF hates Third Versions, in general. (Which is what Yellow is, whine and moan about it all you want.)

It could be canon considering ORAS introduced the idea of parallel timelines.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8556432)
They made Origins as a marketing ploy to get older Gen fans excited for XY, not to serve as a "replacement" for the anime with Ash (neither of which will EVER be game canon).

It won't replace the Ash anime but it's more canon than Ash's story since, you know, it was actually based on the game canon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8556432)
Again, Origins IS NOT CANON. It's an ADAPTATION, and nothing more. It's NOT a replacement for a new remake and frankly, I don't WANT it to be.

But it could be a good template for a re-remake. Origins can't be canon because it would canonize Red and Blue's teams, but what I was saying is that they don't need to release a remake of RBY for now, because RBY (or rather, RB) already got enough exposure from Origins and Sycamore's choice of Pokémon.

Speaking of the regular anime, I don't hate it as much as I've grown out of it. I got older, so I'd prefer the franchise to go with a darker tone in an adaptation.

BettyNewbie December 31st, 2014 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8557514)
You criticize me for arguing a retcon yet you go with an assumption yourself? :P

It's a very logical and reasonable one. Gloom evolves into Bellossom, and Erika had a Gloom as an ace in a previous game (just the game that you don't like). I figured it out when I was 10.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8557514)
I did some research before replying to your earlier post and, at least according to Blue's GSC team, he doesn't have an ace in those games. Exeggutor, Arcanine and Gyarados, which are his highest leveled Pokémon, are all at the same levels.

Arcanine was his highest-leveled Pokémon (in GSC, at least), so it's his ace.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8557514)
GF has had characters with the same aces in the past. In HGSS, Falkner and Blue share an ace (as weird as it is for Blue's ace to be Pidgeot). Blaine has Magmortar as his ace in the HGSS rematch, which is the same ace as Flint, and Bertha and Giovanni share aces, too.

But, not in the same game right next to each other, like Blaine and Blue in GSC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8557514)
It could've originated in Johto because you can only find Sun Stones in Johto, at least in GSC.

But it's a matter of terminology, really. I call 2nd gen Pokémon "Johto Pokémon" and will build Johto-only teams which consist of only 2nd gen Pokémon despite some of them being found only in Kanto in the games (one of the examples is in my sig).

It's bad terminology. There isn't a single non-Starter Pokémon of any Gen that's restricted to a single region, especially when you're talking about the closely-connected Kanto and Johto. And, many Gen 2 Pokémon, like Slugma and the aforementioned Houndour, were never native to Johto to begin with, and that's not even getting into cross-Gen pre/evolutions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8557514)
I consider the GB games to have been superceded by their remakes, as most of the fandom does.

You don't speak for the entire fandom. I can't stand FRLG, myself, and while HGSS were good, they'll never truly replace GSC for me. And, besides, ORAS established the existence of separate timelines, so if RSE and their remakes exist on separate timelines, shouldn't it also be the case for RBY/GSC and their remakes?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8557514)
Of course he has no starter. They didn't want to canonize one of the RGB starters, and they couldn't either since Red has Pikachu. But the whole team is the same from RGB, and he doesn't have the Eevee he started with in Yellow.

Which means that he has a team that doesn't come from any of the previous games (in GSC, at least). My theory is that he boxed his Eevee (which he evolved into Flareon, hence his ace being another Fire type), along with Sandslash, Magneton, and Cloyster, and replaced them with stronger Pokémon after they failed him against Red. No, it's not hard canon by any means, but it makes sense for his character, and it explains away the glaring continuity error.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8557514)
It could be canon considering ORAS introduced the idea of parallel timelines.

... Just like Yellow and the rest of the early Gen games. If it's a Main Series handheld that was made by Game Freak, then it exists, period, even if you don't like the game. Again, I hate the GBA games, but I'd never argue against them being canon. (Except in my main timeline, the original RBY/GSC timeline, that is, where I can safely ignore them in my stories. :P)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8557514)
It won't replace the Ash anime but it's more canon than Ash's story since, you know, it was actually based on the game canon.

It's still an adaptation that Game Freak didn't have any involvement with, as faithful as it may have been. It's equally as canon as Pokémon Zensho, which is not at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8557514)
But it could be a good template for a re-remake. Origins can't be canon because it would canonize Red and Blue's teams, but what I was saying is that they don't need to release a remake of RBY for now, because RBY (or rather, RB) already got enough exposure from Origins and Sycamore's choice of Pokémon.

Of course, a new remake could always borrow things from Origins (like the fleshed-out Marowak story), just like Yellow borrowed things from the regular anime. Then, they would be canon.

And, getting the old starters in a completely different game set in a completely different region with completely different characters isn't at all equivalent to a new Gen 1 remake. Nor, is a non-canon anime adaptation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8557514)
Speaking of the regular anime, I don't hate it as much as I've grown out of it. I got older, so I'd prefer the franchise to go with a darker tone in an adaptation.

I think a lot of us have. I won't lie, I still view the Kanto/Orange seasons with a nostalgic fondness, but I'd be the first to admit that the show hasn't aged very well. Even now, it's still clearly a kids show aimed at kids.

As an adult, myself, I prefer adult stories about adult characters (hence the reason why most of my fanfiction focuses on Gym Leaders and Elite Four members, nowadays), although not necessarily "dark." (One of many reasons I loathe Adventures; too much of it reads like someone's bad dark!fic.) I like things that are smart/witty, character-driven, and relatable.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire December 31st, 2014 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8557322)
Yuck, I hope not. To be honest, outside of a few things like the VS Seeker and the Sevii Islands (which should look very different, anyways), new Gen 1 remakes would be wise to just ignore FRLG and act like they were remaking the original games from scratch. One of the biggest reasons for new Gen 1 remakes is how flawed and poorly-handled FRLG were, anyways, and the new games should not commit those same mistakes.



Emerald was largely ignored as well, outside of a cameo appearance of Wallace's Champion team in the Delta Episode thing. The Gym Leaders all had their RS teams (to the disappointment of many fans), the plot followed RS, and Emerald exclusives like Juan and the Battle Frontier were nowhere to be found (also to the disappointment of many fans). Only Crystal has been fully acknowledged by its Gen's remakes, which is a pretty lousy track record, IMO. (And, doesn't bode well for Platinum in eventual Gen 4 remakes.)

If Generation 5 and (probably) Generation 6 are anything to go by, GF seems to have largely abandoned the idea of Third Versions in favor of sequels, and seeing as B2W2 ended up selling better than any Third Version besides Yellow (7.81 million vs Crystal's 6.39 million, Emerald's 6.41 million, and Platinum's 7.59 million; the only reason B2W2's sales weren't even higher was because the games were released for a dying handheld), it's a wise financial decision, especially now that XY (13.29 million) have dethroned RS (15.85 million) as the franchise's worst-selling paired games.



That's because they didn't take the time to make FRLG look any better. Yet again, another reason why they should've waited until Gen 4 to make the games.

(And, the Gen 3 games already had pretty mediocre graphics by GBA standards, IMO. Just look at some of the hacks on this very site to see what the handheld was actually capable of.)



Well, HGSS and ORAS did an acceptable job of of that. It was FRLG that was a lazy copy/paste.

Is it even fair to compare B2W2 with the third versions? They're two games versus one game so of course they'll sell better. Emerald sold the best irc if you split RS and FrLf instead of putting the pairs sales as one of the GBA games. Platinum for sure beats B2W2 when they're split into two. And speaking of a dead console I read a rumor awhile ago that GF went with B2W2 instead of Grey to spice things up for the final games of Gen V as they feared the third version wouldn't sell well. Now Z will be on a console that isn't dying so there will be little need to make two versions of the same thing. Chances are a single Z will beat the sales of B2W2 tbh (heck Pt gets close).


Also by Emerald I meant the role of Rayquaza which was brought up in story as part of the myths of Hoenn, not necessary the teams. I wouldn't mind an Emerald remake though to add Juan and Scott (btw both were brought up in ORAS unlike Jessie and James).


I agree with Cerberus on the point that a Kanto remake is unlikely any time soon due to the Kanto starters being available in Kalos early on (interestingly even those that appeared post game just as the Johto starters had to wait 5 years between their latest two appearances (2004 Emerald to 2009 HgSs. Even more interesting the Johto starter's were also available in 1999 before Emerald...and 5 years after their remakes...so starting with GSC they've popped up every five years (JP)), and Hoenn's waited five years too (HgSs 2009 to 2014 ORAS (and like the Johto starters starting with Crystal the Hoenn starters have appeared in game every five years starting with Emerald (Sinnoh and Unova don't fit though, nor do the Kanto ones))) and the rest of Kanto legends are available in XY too. Chances are GF will take 2015 off and make Z for 2016, start Gen VII in 2017 or 2018. I think late this decade or early next decade will be the best time for Kanto remakes.


Btw Gf had two years between RS and FrLg. Even if they were working with Emerald they could've done more (heck they were working on Pt and HgSs at the same time and actually HgSs could've come before Pt but they opted for Pt to come first. Chances are it's the same case for Emerald and Z...though if they do take a break chances are likely they'll go with X2Y2 (as having Kalos sequels being developed at the same time as the Hoenn remakes only to be released one year after the other would be difficult as a third version just requires editing of something already made so that takes less time. Btw XY were in development around Gen V so they probably had XY done awhile before they released it).

Bellsprout January 1st, 2015 6:07 AM

okay so i'm about 12 pages late to this thread aka skip what everyone said and pretend i'm the first post tehe 0:)

the kanto region is one i could replay over and over so i'd love to see it remade again. but with that said it's nothing i'm pushing for or hoping for as i know it's already been remade, though now even that remake is outdated. right now i'm more excited to see the third installment of x/y as i really enjoyed Kalos and the new pokemon in it.

BettyNewbie January 1st, 2015 8:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8557722)
Is it even fair to compare B2W2 with the third versions? They're two games versus one game so of course they'll sell better. Emerald sold the best irc if you split RS and FrLf instead of putting the pairs sales as one of the GBA games. Platinum for sure beats B2W2 when they're split into two. And speaking of a dead console I read a rumor awhile ago that GF went with B2W2 instead of Grey to spice things up for the final games of Gen V as they feared the third version wouldn't sell well. Now Z will be on a console that isn't dying so there will be little need to make two versions of the same thing. Chances are a single Z will beat the sales of B2W2 tbh (heck Pt gets close).

As poorly as XY sold, that's unlikely. And, while "Z" wouldn't be on a dying handheld, it would be on Nintendo's worst selling handheld in years, instead.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8557722)
I agree with Cerberus on the point that a Kanto remake is unlikely any time soon due to the Kanto starters being available in Kalos early on

Which, again, is in a completely different game in a completely different region with completely different characters. I have zero interest in Kalos, but I'd actually contemplate buying a new Gen 1 remake.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8557722)
Btw Gf had two years between RS and FrLg. Even if they were working with Emerald they could've done more

Actually, more like 1 year and two months--RS came out in November 2002, while FRLG came out in January 2004. That's how rushed and slapped together those games were.

(Of course, I think the entire Third Generation, as a whole, was a giant missed opportunity. I can see why many people consider RSE/FRLG (along with DPP) to be a "Dork Age" for the franchise.)

Cerberus87 January 1st, 2015 8:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8558158)
(Of course, I think the entire Third Generation, as a whole, was a giant missed opportunity. I can see why many people consider RSE/FRLG (along with DPP) to be a "Dork Age" for the franchise.)

Not that many anymore. The Hoenn supporters became more vocal lately. They started asking Masuda on Twitter about the remakes and started campaigning for it, which led to ORAS.

But the 3rd gen games are very unimpressive graphically speaking. There are people who praise them because they have high framerate, but that's because they don't even scratch the GBA's potential. So they're fast, but the effects looked ugly and some were reused from 2nd gen (Flamethrower, for example).

"I have zero interest in Kalos" you should give it a try, it's not too bad. Far from perfect, though.

BettyNewbie January 1st, 2015 8:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8558187)
Not that many anymore. The Hoenn supporters became more vocal lately. They started asking Masuda on Twitter about the remakes and started campaigning for it, which led to ORAS.

I think a lot of that's because the 8 year olds of 2003 were the 19 year olds of 2014, aka. the age group that's most active online. I still think that people who started with either the GB/C games or DS games dwarf them in number.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8558187)
But the 3rd gen games are very unimpressive graphically speaking. There are people who praise them because they have high framerate, but that's because they don't even scratch the GBA's potential. So they're fast, but the effects looked ugly and some were reused from 2nd gen (Flamethrower, for example).

Oh, I definitely agree. Just look at some of the hacks on this site to see what the GBA games were truly capable of. While GSC had lower quality graphics, they, at least, used the GB/C to its fullest potential. I think the entire Third Generation was rushed and poorly-planned to a degree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8558187)
"I have zero interest in Kalos" you should give it a try, it's not too bad. Far from perfect, though.

I'd need to own a 3DS, first, and none of the current games are enough to motivate me to spend money on one. :P

(Now, if someone attempted a hack demake on either the GB/C or GBA, I might try that. At least, then, I could just use VBA to play it.)

Cerberus87 January 1st, 2015 9:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8558247)
I think a lot of that's because the 8 year olds of 2003 were the 19 year olds of 2014, aka. the age group that's most active online. I still think that people who started with either the GB/C games or DS games dwarf them in number.

There are the traitors who started with 1st gen yet say they liked Hoenn. :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8558247)
Oh, I definitely agree. Just look at some of the hacks on this site to see what the GBA games were truly capable of. While GSC had lower quality graphics, they, at least, used the GB/C to its fullest potential. I think the entire Third Generation was rushed and poorly-planned to a degree.

Well, the emulator in Stadium 2 couldn't run GSC in color at triple speed. I think that accounts for something, doesn't it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8558247)
I'd need to own a 3DS, first, and none of the current games are enough to motivate me to spend money on one. :P

(Now, if someone attempted a hack demake on either the GB/C or GBA, I might try that. At least, then, I could just use VBA to play it.)

I've only really played Star Fox 64 3D and Fire Emblem Awakening besides Pokémon X. I own a few games for 3DS but it isn't worth to buy it just for Pokémon IMO.

You should check out Platinum Red and Platinum Blue in the hacks section.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire January 1st, 2015 9:58 AM

I think Gen V and III are the most rushed. GF should've waited to release V on the 3DS while they should've spread out Gen III to every year release like they dubbed them in America. Though it's interesting you guys are bashing Gen III's graphics...as those against Hoenn remakes said they were still modern and playable up to a year ago.

DP fans who started with them at 8 are going to be 16/17 this year so can we expect Sinnoh remakes soon after a wave of applause for DP? (also BN didn't you say earlier that those who started with RGBY seem to be fewer now in days in the fandom? So how can they drawf Gen III fans. Also (if you count II as a GB gen) the GB and DS had two gens so of course it'll have/had more.) Irc the second best selling Gen was IV so unless Unova, Kalos and/or possibly the Hoenn remakes or life got them out of the fandom there should be a sizable number.

Sadly those that started out with the remakes aren't that vocal about a re-remake it seems as one barely sees them being vocal about another Kanto remake except the oldest fans (Gen I fans). GF said that they want to do simple next Gen, so if they do remake Kanto again I expect it'll be similar to the originals and FrLg in terms of story...by that I mean the not so fantastical (they made RSE more so in ORAS.). Though if GF wants simple they should remake Kanto then instead of making more lame Kanto wannabes like Unova and the not so lame Kalos (both of which aren't simple).

BettyNewbie January 1st, 2015 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8558325)
There are the traitors who started with 1st gen yet say they liked Hoenn. :P

Oh, I've met a few of those. Traitors, indeed! {XD}

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8558325)
Well, the emulator in Stadium 2 couldn't run GSC in color at triple speed. I think that accounts for something, doesn't it?

*Looks it up*

Quote:

In Pokémon Stadium 2, when Doduo mode is used with a Generation II game, the border changes to black and applies a sepia-tone effect to the game display. Stadium 2's Dodrio mode, when used with a Generation II game, changes the game display's tone to black-and-white.
I never unlocked Doduo Mode for GSC in Stadium 2, so I never knew this. {D:}

GSC were almost too much for the technology of their time. It would be a good 5 or more years until there was a Nintendo handheld with its own built-in clock, and yet, GSC implemented a full-blown Day/Night System, run completely off of a battery-powered clock in the cartridge (which had the nasty side-effect of making the games completely unplayable after 5 or so years). Same goes for the two regions; people complain about GSC Kanto being watered-down, but people forget that the GB/C carts could only hold so much data.

And, the animated sprites in Crystal were considered very good for the time, and many still consider them to be superior to the more generic animations of later Gens (especially Emerald).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8558325)
You should check out Platinum Red and Platinum Blue in the hacks section.

Yeah, I've been following Platinum Red & Blue for a while now. I think I'll give it a try after more of the bugs have been worked out.

There's another hack that's sort of close to being a GB/C demake of XY called XY: Naturia. It has 6th Gen (as well as 3rd-5th Gen) Pokémon, later Gen moves, Serena/Calem as protagonists, and more. However, it has an extremely hard level curve and isn't made for casual play at all (although the creator has admitted this and is working on an easier version).

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8558327)
I think Gen V and III are the most rushed. GF should've waited to release V on the 3DS while they should've spread out Gen III to every year release like they dubbed them in America. Though it's interesting you guys are bashing Gen III's graphics...as those against Hoenn remakes said they were still modern and playable up to a year ago.

One of the biggest problems with Gen 3 was something that, admittedly, GF couldn't help--the GBA's short lifespan. While the GB/C had 11 years before its successor came out, and the DS had 7, the GBA only had 3, and RS were released when the handheld's lifespan was already halfway over. They barely had enough time for just RSE, let alone RSE + FRLG. Again, they should've saved FRLG for Gen 4 and spent more time on making RSE complete games, IMO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8558327)
(also BN didn't you say earlier that those who started with RGBY seem to be fewer now in days in the fandom? So how can they drawf Gen III fans. Also (if you count II as a GB gen) the GB and DS had two gens so of course it'll have/had more.)

With the online fandom, specifically, they are fewer in number. The original group of fans are all in their mid 20s or older now, out of college and focusing more on RL; they're less likely to spend time in fandom spaces than late teen/early twenty-somethings, aka. the people who grew up with Gen 3 and later.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8558327)
Sadly those that started out with the remakes aren't that vocal about a re-remake it seems as one barely sees them being vocal about another Kanto remake except the oldest fans (Gen I fans). GF said that they want to do simple next Gen, so if they do remake Kanto again I expect it'll be similar to the originals and FrLg in terms of story...by that I mean the not so fantastical (they made RSE more so in ORAS.). Though if GF wants simple they should remake Kanto then instead of making more lame Kanto wannabes like Unova and the not so lame Kalos (both of which aren't simple).

As long as it's not a lazy copy/paste like FRLG was, I'm happy.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire January 1st, 2015 1:36 PM

Kanto even in the remakes of RG and GS was never given a facility like Contests, Pokethalon, musicals, or a movie studio. So if they remake FrLg I'll like for them to make Team Rocket's base a side game facility as the game corner is unlikely to return (and I would hate to see it empty as it'll no longer explain where the heck TR are getting their funding from when they're not stealing Pokémon (which is where Teams Magma, Aqua and Neo Plasma seem to have gotten theirs...while Galactic did both the casino and stealing thing plus had advertisements of supporting energy development while Flare had Lysander's business' backing them)).

BettyNewbie January 1st, 2015 2:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8558826)
Kanto even in the remakes of RG and GS was never given a facility like Contests, Pokethalon, musicals, or a movie studio. So if they remake FrLg I'll like for them to make Team Rocket's base a side game facility as the game corner is unlikely to return (and I would hate to see it empty as it'll no longer explain where the heck TR are getting their funding from when they're not stealing Pokémon (which is where Teams Magma, Aqua and Neo Plasma seem to have gotten theirs...while Galactic did both the casino and stealing thing plus had advertisements of supporting energy development while Flare had Lysander's business' backing them)).

As I've mentioned earlier in the thread, I'd like to see the Game Corner turned into a video arcade, where you could play mini-games in exchange for tokens (which could then be exchanged for various prizes). As a nostalgic nod, the arcade could include ports of old spin-off games like Pokémon Pinball and the various games made for the Pokémon mini. Much cooler than a contest hall or battle facility, IMO.

Sloan Kettering January 1st, 2015 8:40 PM

I could see a remake of red and blue. D,P,Pl already have a DS platform, so it would be just a bit redundant until some kind of majorly updated system is released. They had deep stories, cut scenes and all the stuff a remake would try to add. Ruby and Sapphire still sat in that prehistoric area before the separation of physical moves and special moves. They also suffered from the limitations of the gameboy. FireRed and LeafGreen suffered from all the same limitations.

But at the same time, X and Y seem like celebrations of the first games in a certain way. They also already included the mega-evolutions of the first gen starters AND Mewtwo.

I'd personally enjoy an updated version of Red and Blue if they received similar treatment as Ruby and Sapphire. I didn't really enjoy FireRed and LeafGreen very much and I think a more personal and character driven story could reeeeally make gen 1 amazing. Something like Pokemon Origins: The Game...just let us go to Sinnoh in post game.

BettyNewbie January 1st, 2015 9:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metal Man (Post 8559924)
I could see a remake of red and blue. D,P,Pl already have a DS platform, so it would be just a bit redundant until some kind of majorly updated system is released. They had deep stories, cut scenes and all the stuff a remake would try to add. Ruby and Sapphire still sat in that prehistoric area before the separation of physical moves and special moves. They also suffered from the limitations of the gameboy. FireRed and LeafGreen suffered from all the same limitations.

But at the same time, X and Y seem like celebrations of the first games in a certain way. They also already included the mega-evolutions of the first gen starters AND Mewtwo.

I'd personally enjoy an updated version of Red and Blue if they received similar treatment as Ruby and Sapphire. I didn't really enjoy FireRed and LeafGreen very much and I think a more personal and character driven story could reeeeally make gen 1 amazing. Something like Pokemon Origins: The Game...just let us go to Sinnoh in post game.

I was with you all the way up until the last sentence. I don't want to see Sinnoh (and, especially, a certain overrated blonde Champion from that region) anywhere near my beloved Gen 1, nosiree. They can wait until DP get their turn on the remake train.

A better solution would be to expand the Sevii Islands into a real region; add in the islands that were cut from FRLG, and give them a real backstory. We could even have a few gyms there, possibly with a developing League. (Sequel bait!)

It just annoys me that GF went through the trouble of creating this whole new region/area for FRLG, only to end up tossing it into the scrapper when it was done serving its "purpose" of giving you underleveled Gen 2 Pokémon that should've been in the Kanto Dex (and being a dumping ground for NPCs GF no longer wants anything to do with). Did you know that the Sevii Islands are the now the *only* region (however small) that haven't made any appearances on the DS or 3DS? Talk about forgotten!

Sloan Kettering January 1st, 2015 9:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8560051)
I was with you all the way up until the last sentence. I don't want to see Sinnoh (and, especially, a certain overrated blonde Champion from that region) anywhere near my beloved Gen 1, nosiree. They can wait until DP get their turn on the remake train.

A better solution would be to expand the Sevii Islands into a real region; add in the islands that were cut from FRLG, and give them a real backstory. We could even have a few gyms there, possibly with a developing League. (Sequel bait!)

It just annoys me that GF went through the trouble of creating this whole new region/area for FRLG, only to end up tossing it into the scrapper when it was done serving its "purpose" of giving you underleveled Gen 2 Pokémon that should've been in the Kanto Dex (and being a dumping ground for NPCs GF no longer wants anything to do with). Did you know that the Sevii Islands are the now the *only* region (however small) that haven't made any appearances on the DS or 3DS? Talk about forgotten!

Eh, to be honest, I didn't care for the Sevii Islands...mainly for the reasons you discussed. They just felt so tacked on, empty and pointless. However...GF *could* redevelop them into the Orange Islands for those of us that always wanted them in the games regardless of how fillery they were.

BettyNewbie January 1st, 2015 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metal Man (Post 8560142)
Eh, to be honest, I didn't care for the Sevii Islands...mainly for the reasons you discussed. They just felt so tacked on, empty and pointless. However...GF *could* redevelop them into the Orange Islands for those of us that always wanted them in the games regardless of how fillery they were.

As much as I loved the Orange Islands anime back in the day, I don't think that's going to happen. The region wasn't created by GF, and while the games have borrowed things from the anime before, a few characters aren't anywhere equivalent to an entire region. Maybe, if it's a Yellow remake, specifically, it might happen, but realistically, I think the most the Orange Islands could get is a console spin-off in the vein of Colosseum/XD.

While the Sevii Islands were pretty underwhelming in FRLG, I think they can be salvaged in a new remake. They were obviously intended to be GF's answer to the Orange Islands (however poor), so why not give them a unique 4-badge League similar to the Orange League? And, they could put in a postgame Lugia/Bird Trio story as a nod to Pokémon 2000. And, maybe, we could finally get game counterparts of Professor Ivy and Tracey. A few of the sidequests down there could also be inspired by Orange Islands episodes (in the same way that parts of Yellow were inspired by Season 1 episodes). There's a lot they could do with those islands if they put in the effort.

ggctuk January 2nd, 2015 10:34 AM

Given it seems to be the trend to do massive cities in the games since BW, I wonder what city in Kanto might fulfil the role of Castelia/Lumiose/Mauville in a potential remake. It'd be either Saffron or Celadon, but it'd be interesting to see which one they'd pick.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire January 2nd, 2015 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ggctuk (Post 8561027)
Given it seems to be the trend to do massive cities in the games since BW, I wonder what city in Kanto might fulfil the role of Castelia/Lumiose/Mauville in a potential remake. It'd be either Saffron or Celadon, but it'd be interesting to see which one they'd pick.

I'm hoping for Saffron due to it based on Tokyo...but then again they didn't make Petalburg bigger even though that city is based on the biggest city in real like Kyushu irc. However Saffron has the same kind of central location in their region that Lumiose and Mauville do.

BettyNewbie January 2nd, 2015 1:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8561141)
I'm hoping for Saffron due to it based on Tokyo...but then again they didn't make Petalburg bigger even though that city is based on the biggest city in real like Kyushu irc. However Saffron has the same kind of central location in their region that Lumiose and Mauville do.

I hope Saffron gets expanded by a lot. Despite it being such a large city, there was never much to do there. Maybe, they could stick a contest hall or battle facility there? (I'd never use either, but I know a lot of others would.)

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire January 2nd, 2015 3:53 PM

Maybe they could put Unova's subway in Saffron post game? It does have a the Magnet Train in the Johto games so maybe have them be in the middle of adding a new line to Johto.

Also they could add some Super Contests (that is Sinnoh style) and have Daisy participate in them as her FrLg fame checker called her a "star cordinator" or something along those lines. Maybe make her into a not a modest and not so peppy but still kind contest idol. So while her little brother conquers the battling world she conquers the world of contests. Maybe they could give her a Mega. I imagine her with Vileplume( or Bellossom if they give Vileplume to Erika again) due to her flower name. Maybe she could have a team of 5. Vileplume for Beauty or cuteness, Tangrowth for tough, Venusaur (her starter?!) for coolness, Paras for smart, and ...Victribell for beauty or even more oddly...cuteness depending on what Vileplume is. If they're add Johto mons then Sunflora should replace Paras and be the beauty, Victribell Smart, and Vileplume cute, Venusaur cool. Tangrowth stays the same.


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