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It was a similar story with the 3DS. GBA compatibility was gone, so only Gens 4 and 5 could still be played, which included Gen 2 via its remakes. That left Gen 3 out in the cold, thus necessitating remakes. Problem is that Gen 3 also included Gen 1, so that's one story that's still inaccessible on modern hardware. Quote:
Yeah, what happened to Misty in the anime was very unfortunate; it's amazing that she still has so many fans. I always hated the way the anime treated its female leads like they were interchangeable. Quote:
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FRLG, on the other hand, played out identically to RB in almost every single way, because even a few nods to Yellow would've been too much change for them. :rolleyes2: Quote:
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You know it'll be an interesting coincidence if Gen VII does include a Kanto re-remake, seeing how in FrLg we were only allowed to access III islands pre-post game, but post game we could visit all VII. |
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And, speaking of fetch-quests, Sevii was home to one of the games' most infamous. Yes, the games forced you to not only wait until the postgame, but also go through this long, tedious fetch-quest just to be able to trade with the Hoenn games. (In contrast, HGSS and ORAS let you trade with DPP and XY, respectively, right from the start, regardless of whether or not you had the National Dex.) That, alone, is enough to mar the Sevii Islands. Quote:
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Oh look, something I can talk about without being flamed out.
The Sevii Islands could be made much better if they showed some actual incentive to go there other than just trad capability, like some more exclusive Pokémon and items. Also, the way the games are being made nowadays, there could be some REALLY good visuals for the area. And yes, the Lostelle "subplot" was pretty lame. That should be completely removed and replaced with something else. I still liked the Sevii Islands overall though. |
I meant to say 'Longer in comparison' not 'long' xD
Maybe they could make some of the islands (I-III) available as soon as we defeat Lt. Surge and have the rest open up one at a time up until we defeat the 7th gym. Post game we can see the extra islands that were meant for FRLG but weren't finished. |
Hahaha the Lostelle plot was also a nod to the anime, because it was the anime which first portrayed Hypno as a pervert who hypnotized and kidnapped children. {XD}
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Another major issue with the islands is that they simply had no identity. They lacked their own League, they had no backstory, their tilesets were ripped off from Kanto, their music was ripped off from Johto, and they were literally designed to be nothing but an extension to Kanto rather than a real region. Again, I can see why GF would want to just forget that they ever existed. |
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Btw want to know who also hasn't been brought up in any game or even any other canon since FrLg? Four Island native Lorelei (Agatha is referenced by Shauntel , while the boys appear in HGSS). |
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(Apparently, Bulbapedia has also forgotten that the Sevii Islands are supposed to be a "region." Ouch!) |
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I have to disagree about the music being "ripped off from Johto" because I'm pretty sure that was intentional. It was part of them setting up HG/SS. I've since thought and I agree they could've done more, but there was definitely enough by way of hints at a next game. I also think maybe they didn't want to make it too obvious that HG/SS were going to exist. |
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Just because they weren't in HG/SS doesn't mean that they weren't used as a setup for them. You honestly think that there was ZERO thought about doing a Johto remake before and they could have hinted at it? I just think there's too much Johto stuff in that area to write it off completely. Also, keep in mind that all of this is SUBJECTIVE to opinion as well unless GF comes out and says something. That was one of the things that drove me away from this thread before, it felt like my opinions held no weight and just were completely wrong. |
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What GF was more than likely trying to do was give us a "fake Johto" in Sevii because they wouldn't let us visit the real one in Gen 3 for whatever reason. |
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I think that GF should've put the Sevii into Emerald alongside the Frontier and called it a day (the islands were my favorite part of FrLg so I would've loved them in Emerald alongside the Frontier) instead of remaking Kanto and adding the islands to fill in the dex. Only the Sevii islands would be based on the Ryuukyu islands (which would lie south of Hoenn) instead of the Izu islands. Perhaps they would've put one facility on each island and have the Battle Tower be part of Seven island. We could still have had Lorelei pop up as a cameo. Anyways back to reality. If the Sevii islands return perhaps GF will include the Orange islands as well. I say this as the Sevii islands are based on the Izu islands which are between the island Cinnabar is based on and the Bonin islands (which Orange is based on). Actually Izu consists of 9 main islands (despite it usually referred to as Seven even in real life), and according to coding there were meant to be 22 islands. |
Johto makes ZERO sense from a storyline perspective. Red is already the supreme trainer, what does he have to gain by going to Johto? It only made sense in GSC because there was still a challenge beyond the Champion, which was Red itself, so it was justified for Gold to go to Kanto and earn their badges as preparation to go to Mt. Silver.
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The Mt. Silver is in Johto but it's not accessible from Johto, only from Kanto. Since the whole point of the gem quest was to create connectivity between RSE and FRLG, I think we can safely discard it as non-canon in the new timeline, especially since a future remake wouldn't need it, but that's only due to circumstance. Red's trip to the Sevii Islands only covers a small part of his story post-Champion. He most certainly didn't need to go to Johto and earn the Johto badges, though. In GSC (and HGSS), however, there's dialogue that hints at the Kanto leaders thinking less of a Johto trainer like Gold (at least that's how I interpreted it), which means that, even after becoming Champion, Gold wasn't as widely respected as Red was. Another thing is that a Johto storyline for Red wouldn't be nearly as long as his Kanto one. The Kanto story in GSC is MUCH shorter and there's almost nothing to do except fight gym leaders, collect items and do menial tasks like retrieving the Machine Part to the Power Plant. A Johto postgame in FRLG wouldn't necessarily be more fleshed out than what we got with the Sevii Islands. The GSC Kanto was a watered down version of the RBY one. There was probably space in the ROM to fit in Johto but there probably wouldn't be a lot of things to do in it since it would almost be a different game. Also, at least from memory, I don't remember NPCs addressing a possible Red trip to Johto in GSC, probably not to spoil the surprise, but if he really was there between RBY and GSC there would be people who remembered him. |
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That's true, it would've been as bland as the Kanto story in the Johto centric games. I think that is one reason why GF isn't fond of letting us visit old regions in the newer games (not counting remakes as the region itself isn't really being 'visited'). One good thing about the Ruby-Sapphire quest is that it had references to the events of the Johto centric games, such as the research into evolution through magnetism/radio waves (Red Gyarados), Silver being Giovanni's son (more of a HGSS thing as GSC doesn't bring up a son), plus the last two executives we fight are likely Archer and Ariana. So all of the hints to the sequels in FRLG were in the post game... |
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Of course, there was a good alternative to Johto as a quality postgame area, but that required borrowing from the anime. (Which is what most fans wanted, anyways.) Quote:
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Well that may be true, after all GF seems to be planning something else for XY than sequels (prequels?) Which is likely why ORAS lacks a sub-region or second region while the first two sets of remakes had one (with Sevii filling the role of sub-region for FRLG), and considering that the Resort areas in Sinnoh are considered a sub-region of Sinnoh it is sure to be the only remake in awhile to lack one (unless if Sinnoh loses the Resort areas in it's remakes). |
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The "entire" Indigo League doesn't exist, Gold/Kris isn't any less Champion by having only the Johto badges. The only reason for collecting the Kanto badges is that there was a challenge beyond the League (Red). E4 rematch in HGSS is also completely optional. Actually, if you take out the gyms, GSC Kanto has the same sort of menial tasks as the Sevii Islands, maybe even less. The Team Rocket "quest" in GSC Kanto was a joke, for example, while the Sevii Islands one foretold what would happen in Johto later on. |
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And, Kanto returned in GSC because GSC were meant to be direct sequels to RBY, and they wouldn't have been so without Kanto. Geez, what do you have against getting more Badges? Or, just multiple regions being in the same game? (I thought you were a fan of Gen 2...) Not everyone is interested in competitive battling (be it multiplayer or battle facility), and a more substantial postgame would be great for them. |
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It's more like there are two paths to enter the Indigo League, through Johto or through Kanto. Sadly Kanto's gyms in GSCHgSs were easy to defeat. I think that's one of the reasons why GF hasn't added more than 8 badges beyond GSC and their remakes and likely why the facilities popped up (sadly it seems the Facilities are being ignored , or disliked by fans according to GF so there's no need for more than a half hearted attempt, just like what they gave to making the Kanto gym leaders a challenge in HgSs. Well in general the main story tends to be easy, but difficult easy). It would still be nice to have both the facilities and another region to explore (only games where this is the case are Crystal, HeartGold, and Soul Silver) post main story. Actually the very naming of the events from getting the Starter up to defeating the Champion as the main game is indicative that there is no plot after defeating the Champion (or Ghetsis in the case of BW). It'll be nice if the story encroached into the post game. The Delta Episode sort of felt like that...and given the fact that we couldn't access the Battle resort until beating it makes it seem more like part of the main story. If GF expands on that we could see a longer story even after the league. |
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Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing both Johto and the result of merging the Sevii Islands and the Orange Archipelago into a true region of its own in Kanto re-remakes! 24 badges would interesting and cool if they could pull it off and get the level curve right. And the battle facilities could still be there for competitive players, so it'd be a win all around!
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At least in HGSS both regions were decently sized and fit into the cart with all the Kanto improvements. But you still need a bit of story for the postgame. It's rare for a Pokémon game these days to feature only competitive battling in the postgame. Nor is it desirable. Even XY aren't exclusively competitive battling, however small the post game quest was. |
That's true, there was the Looker Episodes in XY, then in ORAS we got the Delta Episode. Actually there seems to be more story there than there was in Kanto in Gen II/IV...
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@ Cerberus That's true. I must say that it's interesting how the rural regions have never been revisted in the future (or the past). Kalos will likely get prequels though...but Kalos is both rural and urban. |
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I agree, Gen 1 shouldn't be forgotten. and what way to re-introduce it to fans without heavily modifying the original. Quote:
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FRLG was a bit of a cheap way to complete the Pokédex, but it's not like GF said after releasing RS "hey, we need a way to complete the Pokédex... alright, let's remake Red and Blue!". I'd say the lack of classic Kanto Pokémon in RS was a sign that GF already planned before RS's release to remake Red and Blue to fill in the gaps.
Later remakes were pushed by public demand, though. The craze we saw with Hoenn in 2013, we had with Johto around the mid-2000s, which even led to the creation of the Shiny Gold hack. It remains to be seen if Sinnoh will get the same treatment, and when. |
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But even then, no one really wanted a full Ruby/Sapphire remake. And yet, one was announced. which was more of a remake. |
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Anyways it appears that Gf wants to isolate the regions from one another, just look at the skip in route numbers between Kanto-Johto and Hoenn, Hoenn and Sinnoh, the reset of the route numbering back to 1 for Unova, and again for Kalos. It's speculated that the reason the Sevii islands lack route numbers was that it would have to pick up where Johto left off and fool people into thinking Johto was in the game too. |
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Maybe they could make it that if we complete the regional dex we'll get access to another region.
Maybe for a Kanto re-remake we'll have the old 151 Kanto dex but at a certain point it'll get updated with all of the newest additions evolutions wise. They could make it so that Oak thinks there are only 151 but we reveal to Oak that isn't true with our dex finds. |
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There's also an unused string of text referring to the Time Capsule in RS's data, which might also suggest that GF was toying around with backwards compatibility with RBY/GSC early in development. Quote:
Conveniently, this makes things easier for the anime, since sending Ash back to old regions to collect old badges is obviously out of the question. (Hence, the reason why they created a brand new League for Johto instead of just sending Ash back to the Indigo Plateau.) |
Maybe after they remake Sinnoh (and Kanto?) they'll make a game with all 4 Japanese regions (or make it part of a Yellow remake.) Anyways they should at least include the Original Saga regions in a Yellow remake with Sevii and/or Orange popping up at some point.
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Any plans to include Johto as a postgame region may have been a similar story. It's possible that GF wanted to include Johto as a means of obtaining the "missing" Pokémon without trading back with RBY/GSC, but then ran out of space after making Hoenn so large. As I said, I always found it odd how May/Brendan were stated in the games to have moved to Hoenn from Johto, yet Johto, itself, was never revisited in the games. (Even FRLG didn't directly reference Johto, despite literally taking place next door to it.) Could this be an artifact from these scrapped plans? |
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The scary thing is that this Gen almost ended up like Gen III had the Pokebank not worked (GF said they were trying different stuff to try to enable transfer from Gen V to VI prior to confirming Pokebank). Actually my guess is that the mass amount of Pokemon in the Kalos dexes was an attempt of avoiding another Hoenn should Pokebank fail, while ORAS having all of the legends is likely an extension of this. It does make one wonder if GF might have made plans to remake Kanto-Unova too. |
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FRLG acted as if Johto never existed, which felt like a slap in the face to anyone who had played and enjoyed the Gen 2 games just a few years earlier. The games really were made for newcomers instead of veterans. :sideways: Quote:
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Tbh, I'd like to have a new region more than a red and blue re-make. We already have ORAS, which is a re-make, so I don't think a re-make after a re-make will be fun.
Think about it, when X and Y came out, there was so much hype, the hype stayed like for months and months! But for ORAS, after a couple of months or so, people got less hyped about it. I'm just saying I would LOVE a new region with ne pokemon, cuz new regions are just naturally more fun than re-makes! |
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Actually Kanto is the only region to not have a legend (,or even a mascot outside of Pikachu) (that we know as of right now) in the newest movie (Gen II: Lugia, Gen III: Weather Trio, Gen IV: Creation Trio, Regigigas, Gen V: Tao Trio, Gen VI: Hoopa)...but then again we did see Mewtwo in the last movie of Gen V's anime saga. |
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I've moved past the point of caring about new regions, myself. I still haven't fully warmed up to Hoenn, Sinnoh, and Unova, and Kalos doesn't incite anything but a shrug from me. It's hard for new regions to stick or even feel special anymore when GF is constantly hitting the reset button with every new Gen and re-recycling the same basic formula they've been using since RS ad nauseum. When so many previous regions and characters have stories that are still incomplete, it's hard to give a damn about the new ones. It would be a dream come true if Gen 7's main games were not another micro-reboot, but instead, a direct sequel to a previous Generation. (You know, like what Gen 2 was to Gen 1?) I'm more than ready to see older regions and characters in games that aren't remakes. Quote:
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Funny that we're talking about sequels in this thread as there is a decent chuck that would rather see sequels rather than remakes of old games... |
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(Plus, anything that involves Kanto/Johto would be a sequel to a sequel and would probably screw up continuity even more than HGSS did in relation to FRLG. A sequel would be saddled with HGSS's storytelling flaws, such as Kris and Green not existing, Giovanni not being repentant about Team Rocket's actions (and the poor send-off Team Rocket got, in general), Lorelei being non-existent in a vacant black hole, Agatha being presumably dead without importance, and so on.) |
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Well at this point if Gen VII resets the timeline back to Gen I/III (or any that is before Kalos XY) time then we can say goodbye to possible Hoenn sequels too (at least until Delta Emerald is made...) as that'll essentially throw the current timeline out of the window like RSE and FRLG themselves did with the Original timeline... Green? Oh right 'Leaf' :P I'm surprised they didn't give her a real name...in Japan they should have named her Blue and outside of Japan Green. Fun fact, Red is actually one of her default names...I think that's the only such case. Well we got Lyra...so it's only Leaf that is missing... |
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The timeline is pretty screwed up, mostly thanks to Gen 6's poor writing and planning. A lot of times, I really do wish that ORAS had been sequels instead... Quote:
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I quite like Kalos, myself. It's way diverse. |
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As for Kalos, well, it has a very large Pokédex. :P Quote:
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Things may have worked better if GF had made RSE take place some time after GSC and had FRLg restart the timeline, splitting the Gen between two timelines (it'll require putting them at the end of the Generation or in Gen IV all together), and had RSE take place at the same time as XY, and then reset once more for Gen VII and Kanto remakes... |
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Anyways crying over spilled Moomoo Milk won't help now... |
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At this point, the main thing that needs to be taken into account is practicality, and it's simply more practical to remake RBY over DPP next. It's the only Gen that can't be played on the 3DS in any way, shape, or form, and the games are also far more outdated and thus, stand to gain more from a fresh remake. Yes, it's a remake of a Gen that has already been remade, but said remake is over a decade old now, and there isn't an easy, practical, legal way to play either version of the Gen anymore. |
Or it's too expensive to buy a new cartridge and a working GBA, or DS/DS lite. I sadly lost my FR so... well at this point Gen I is the only one I don't own any games of...
I think if GF is going to do it it'll be by 2018, if not then 2021...if not...well who knows...likely never... at least until the children of our generation (if you're Gen Y) are our age... |
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Well, if it never happens, I guess Gen 1 fans will, at least, always have hacks. No, it's not the same as a "real" remake, but it's better than nothing. Maybe, it's just inevitable that Kanto/Johto and older fans, in general, will eventually be left behind. :sideways: |
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I wonder if they do re remake the Gen I games if they will be on the 3DS. No system has had more than one remake pair, but then again re-remakes themselves likely will be part of a different pattern than the first time remakes we've seen...
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They could actually still remake them this Gen...seeing how they could just update the trading data in XYORAS like they did with Pokébank being able to read ORAS. Then by Gen VIII we can look forward to DP and Gen II remakes :3.
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Or perhaps they'll save a return for Kalos for next Gen (considering how close the games are it'll be better than having prequels, then having Kalos pop up in the games the next year...it'll be worse than Cynthia popping up in three sets of games one year apart each xD (note this doesn't count DP and B2W2...)). |
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