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BettyNewbie February 27th, 2015 8:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8635993)
I couldn't care less about RSE. It didn't deserve a remake IMO.

That's because you're not a fan of Hoenn. :P I'm no fan of those games, either, but you have to think of the people who are. Before ORAS, they had no way of playing their favorite Gen on modern hardware.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8635993)
The only reason Pokémon games keep getting remade is because of connectivity, which makes the series unique, but even then you can't have all the regions represented in the same generation since we have six regions already. It's simply impossible.

It's not about representing all Gens in the same Generation, but on the same handheld. A Gen is considered "accessible" if people can still pick up the newest handheld and play it. One reason HGSS were made was because, at the time, Gen 2 was the only Gen that was unavailable on the DS (which killed GB/C compatibility). Gen 1 could be played via its remakes, and Gens 3 and 4 were obviously compatible, so that left Gen 2 out in the cold. On top of that, most of the batteries in GSC carts had died off, so the games literally weren't even playable anymore, anyways.

It was a similar story with the 3DS. GBA compatibility was gone, so only Gens 4 and 5 could still be played, which included Gen 2 via its remakes. That left Gen 3 out in the cold, thus necessitating remakes. Problem is that Gen 3 also included Gen 1, so that's one story that's still inaccessible on modern hardware.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8635993)
I've always felt like GF allowed other media to characterize the opponents better. Characters in Pokémon very rarely leave their games. The anime writers have also forgot a ton of characters from the early days, but their "crime" was much bigger because Misty for example was an integral part of the show for a couple hundred episodes, and to simply write her off like they did left a bad taste in many people. Still, I'm probably saying this more because of my favoritism towards Misty than because they were wrong in doing it. :P

But, it's still hard not to notice that some characters are treated better than others. Just compare Steven or Cynthia to your average E4 member, and even certain E4 members to other E4 members (Caitlin and Malva are more popular than Glacia and Aaron, for example, and it's hard not to see why).

Yeah, what happened to Misty in the anime was very unfortunate; it's amazing that she still has so many fans. I always hated the way the anime treated its female leads like they were interchangeable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8635993)
I think that, except for Lorelei and Agatha, all of the 1st gen characters are in HGSS...

And, guess who are the two least characterized Gen 1 characters? :rolleyes2: Even other media don't exactly treat them that well, either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8635993)
Up to the League, HGSS was almost the exact same as GSC. The only differences were that it required you to make a trip to the Safari Zone, and also made you catch the box legendary before heading to Kanto, in an imitation of the plots in newer Pokémon games. HGSS never added Pokémon that weren't supposed to be there, for example, like you suggest for new Kanto remakes. Indeed, this meant the Pokédex was a little lacking in distribution, but that's what the original games were like, and they wanted to give the same experience of the originals. They didn't even fix the low level curve from GSC! Well, they sorta tried, but it was a half-assed effort.

From the start, HGSS were pretty radically different for female players. And, the unselected PC still appeared as a secondary rival. And, last time I checked, neither following Pokémon or the Pokéathlon were in GSC. The Kimono Girls were also very different and more important to the story, and how could the Safari Zone and the two new Routes not be a drastic change from the originals?

FRLG, on the other hand, played out identically to RB in almost every single way, because even a few nods to Yellow would've been too much change for them. :rolleyes2:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8635993)
Therefore, they came up with the Sevii Islands, which I think they realized was a mistake since I believe they weren't referenced in any of the subsequent games. They were a nod to the Orange Islands from the anime, but they hardly had the same "charm".

Damn right GF should be ashamed of the Sevii Islands, because they were crap. They were only slapped together to give GF an excuse to not put "scary" new things in Kanto and because Gen 1 needed a postgame, and GF were too cheap to give us Johto or borrow Orange from the anime. :rolleyes2:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8635993)
If I may use an analogy, I believe the remakes should be like when you add chocolate syrup on top of the vanilla ice cream, instead of replacing the vanilla ice cream with strawberry ice cream. You build upon the original game, not change it.

Going by your analogy, HGSS were a delicious sundae with chocolate syrup, sprinkles, whipped cream, and a cherry on top, while FRLG were a plain scoop of vanilla with a few sprinkles added on. What do you think looks more appetizing?

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Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8636090)
I must say though that he does have a point in that it'll cause an endless cycle of remakes that I honestly can see no end to, and it hasn't even started yet (at least fully). It's sad to say but I do think sometimes that Gen I-III are heading to oblivion from now on. They will only be remembered by those who played the originals or their remakes, and by hack remakes of said generations. Gen II and III may be fresh so they may seem less distant but I certainly do feel that people are starting to forget about Johto, and once Gen VII (or even earlier) starts Hoenn will begin the process of fading as Johto did with BW's announcement. I would say this, that it'll be nice if GF gave Gens I-III one more remake in the distant future (maybe not so distant for Gen I), that of their third versions (more so Yellow and Emerald as they had things fans of those two missed from FRLG and ORAS). After that they can vanish into oblivion and hacks.

This is true. :( It sucks for fans who don't really have any interest in the newest games, because they have less of a community to turn to, and fandom is not fandom without a community. Hoenn fans have it good now, but what about 5-10 years in the future?

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8636090)
It's sad to say but the only reference to the Sevii islands in recent years has been outside of the games, in Pokemon Special, with a character from the Sevii islands popping up in the ORAS saga.

Now, that's just amazing... {D:} Maybe, GF really does view Sevii as an Old Shame.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire February 27th, 2015 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8636169)
That's because you're not a fan of Hoenn. :P I'm no fan of those games, either, but you have to think of the people who are. Before ORAS, they had no way of playing their favorite Gen on modern hardware.



It's not about representing all Gens in the same Generation, but on the same handheld. A Gen is considered "accessible" if people can still pick up the newest handheld and play it. One reason HGSS were made was because, at the time, Gen 2 was the only Gen that was unavailable on the DS (which killed GB/C compatibility). Gen 1 could be played via its remakes, and Gens 3 and 4 were obviously compatible, so that left Gen 2 out in the cold. On top of that, most of the batteries in GSC carts had died off, so the games literally weren't even playable anymore, anyways.

It was a similar story with the 3DS. GBA compatibility was gone, so only Gens 4 and 5 could still be played, which included Gen 2 via its remakes. That left Gen 3 out in the cold, thus necessitating remakes. Problem is that Gen 3 also included Gen 1, so that's one story that's still inaccessible on modern hardware.



But, it's still hard not to notice that some characters are treated better than others. Just compare Steven or Cynthia to your average E4 member, and even certain E4 members to other E4 members (Caitlin and Malva are more popular than Glacia and Aaron, for example, and it's hard not to see why).

Yeah, what happened to Misty in the anime was very unfortunate; it's amazing that she still has so many fans. I always hated the way the anime treated its female leads like they were interchangeable.



And, guess who are the two least characterized Gen 1 characters? :rolleyes2: Even other media don't exactly treat them that well, either.



From the start, HGSS were pretty radically different for female players. And, the unselected PC still appeared as a secondary rival. And, last time I checked, neither following Pokémon or the Pokéathlon were in GSC. The Kimono Girls were also very different and more important to the story, and how could the Safari Zone and the two new Routes not be a drastic change from the originals?

FRLG, on the other hand, played out identically to RB in almost every single way, because even a few nods to Yellow would've been too much change for them. :rolleyes2:



Damn right GF should be ashamed of the Sevii Islands, because they were crap. They were only slapped together to give GF an excuse to not put "scary" new things in Kanto and because Gen 1 needed a postgame, and GF were too cheap to give us Johto or borrow Orange from the anime. :rolleyes2:



Going by your analogy, HGSS were a delicious sundae with chocolate syrup, sprinkles, whipped cream, and a cherry on top, while FRLG were a plain scoop of vanilla with a few sprinkles added on. What do you think looks more appetizing?



This is true. :( It sucks for fans who don't really have any interest in the newest games, because they have less of a community to turn to, and fandom is not fandom without a community. Hoenn fans have it good now, but what about 5-10 years in the future?



Now, that's just amazing... {D:} Maybe, GF really does view Sevii as an Old Shame.

Well there was the detour to the first three Sevii islands after getting the Seventh badge, which is about as different as the detour to the Safari Zone in HGSS, or to capturing the Lati in ORAS (after the 5th badge), we kind of more since it had a long subplot than the other two detours. Well Kanto has Hoenn as company considering Hoenn didn't get any real new areas. Actually Hoenn got a poor man's version of the Sevii islands with the mystery islands, mountains, and forests. No plot in those areas :(

You know it'll be an interesting coincidence if Gen VII does include a Kanto re-remake, seeing how in FrLg we were only allowed to access III islands pre-post game, but post game we could visit all VII.

BettyNewbie February 27th, 2015 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8636235)
Well there was the detour to the first three Sevii islands after getting the Seventh badge, which is about as different as the detour to the Safari Zone in HGSS, or to capturing the Lati in ORAS (after the 5th badge), we kind of more since it had a long subplot than the other two detours.

A fetch-quest for some lost girl isn't exactly what I'd call a "long subplot." :P

And, speaking of fetch-quests, Sevii was home to one of the games' most infamous. Yes, the games forced you to not only wait until the postgame, but also go through this long, tedious fetch-quest just to be able to trade with the Hoenn games. (In contrast, HGSS and ORAS let you trade with DPP and XY, respectively, right from the start, regardless of whether or not you had the National Dex.) That, alone, is enough to mar the Sevii Islands.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8636235)
Well Kanto has Hoenn as company considering Hoenn didn't get any real new areas. Actually Hoenn got a poor man's version of the Sevii islands with the mystery islands, mountains, and forests. No plot in those areas :(

Seeing as the Sevii Islands, themselves, were a poor man's Orange Islands (and Johto, to a lesser extent), that's pretty bad. :( (I can see why Emerald fans have been complaining about the lack of a Battle Frontier in ORAS.)

Wicked3DS February 28th, 2015 6:41 AM

Oh look, something I can talk about without being flamed out.

The Sevii Islands could be made much better if they showed some actual incentive to go there other than just trad capability, like some more exclusive Pokémon and items. Also, the way the games are being made nowadays, there could be some REALLY good visuals for the area.

And yes, the Lostelle "subplot" was pretty lame. That should be completely removed and replaced with something else. I still liked the Sevii Islands overall though.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire February 28th, 2015 8:29 AM

I meant to say 'Longer in comparison' not 'long' xD
Maybe they could make some of the islands (I-III) available as soon as we defeat Lt. Surge and have the rest open up one at a time up until we defeat the 7th gym. Post game we can see the extra islands that were meant for FRLG but weren't finished.

Cerberus87 February 28th, 2015 10:07 AM

Hahaha the Lostelle plot was also a nod to the anime, because it was the anime which first portrayed Hypno as a pervert who hypnotized and kidnapped children. {XD}

BettyNewbie February 28th, 2015 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wicked3DS (Post 8636526)
The Sevii Islands could be made much better if they showed some actual incentive to go there other than just trad capability, like some more exclusive Pokémon and items. Also, the way the games are being made nowadays, there could be some REALLY good visuals for the area.

The big problem with Sevii is that GF, for the most part, used them as a dumping ground for things that we should've had access to in Kanto but didn't for the sole reason of being "faithful" (like breeding and berries). This also included trading compatibility with RSE, which is why we should've been able to trade from the start, as would later the case with HGSS and ORAS (in regards to DPP and XY, respectively); at least, people who didn't want to be restricted to just the first 150 would've had a way out.

Another major issue with the islands is that they simply had no identity. They lacked their own League, they had no backstory, their tilesets were ripped off from Kanto, their music was ripped off from Johto, and they were literally designed to be nothing but an extension to Kanto rather than a real region. Again, I can see why GF would want to just forget that they ever existed.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire February 28th, 2015 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8636734)
The big problem with Sevii is that GF, for the most part, used them as a dumping ground for things that we should've had access to in Kanto but didn't for the sole reason of being "faithful" (like breeding and berries). This also included trading compatibility with RSE, which is why we should've been able to trade from the start, as would later the case with HGSS and ORAS (in regards to DPP and XY, respectively); at least, people who didn't want to be restricted to just the first 150 would've had a way out.

Another major issue with the islands is that they simply had no identity. They lacked their own League, they had no backstory, their tilesets were ripped off from Kanto, their music was ripped off from Johto, and they were literally designed to be nothing but an extension to Kanto rather than a real region. Again, I can see why GF would want to just forget that they ever existed.

I have read that the Sevii islands are actually part of Kanto, so it may be on purpose. I also think that GF had a lot more planned for the islands but either due to rushing to get Emerald done (or the Generation as a whole as the GBA was dying) they couldn't get done what they planned. I say this as Gf put a lot of mystery into some of the islands but never had much to show for it at the end. I think that a re-remake will fix this.

Btw want to know who also hasn't been brought up in any game or even any other canon since FrLg? Four Island native Lorelei (Agatha is referenced by Shauntel , while the boys appear in HGSS).

BettyNewbie February 28th, 2015 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8636754)
I have read that the Sevii islands are actually part of Kanto, so it may be on purpose. I also think that GF had a lot more planned for the islands but either due to rushing to get Emerald done (or the Generation as a whole as the GBA was dying) they couldn't get done what they planned. I say this as Gf put a lot of mystery into some of the islands but never had much to show for it at the end. I think that a re-remake will fix this.

It would have to take a new remake to fix it, because the odds of Sevii returning in any other game are slim to none. Again, I really wish they had just found another way to deal with Ruby and Sapphire's compatibility issues and saved FRLG for a later Generation, when they had more time on their hands and better technology to work with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8636754)
Btw want to know who also hasn't been brought up in any game or even any other canon since FrLg? Four Island native Lorelei (Agatha is referenced by Shauntel , while the boys appear in HGSS).

Coincidence, I think not. :rolleyes2: Another Sevii native, Celio, also seems to have vanished into oblivion, the most forgotten of the Pokémon Storage System developers. Even Bulbapedia, itself, seems to have forgotten his existence:

Quote:

Bill is one of two male characters in charge of a PC storage system, running the systems for the Kanto and Johto regions. Cassius is the second, running the system for the Kalos region. The characters in charge of the storage systems in the Hoenn, Sinnoh and Unova regions are all female.
Because, Celio is secretly a girl... or a genderless robot. {XD}

(Apparently, Bulbapedia has also forgotten that the Sevii Islands are supposed to be a "region." Ouch!)

Cerberus87 February 28th, 2015 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8636829)
Coincidence, I think not. :rolleyes2: Another Sevii native, Celio, also seems to have vanished into oblivion, the most forgotten of the Pokémon Storage System developers. Even Bulbapedia, itself, seems to have forgotten his existence:



Because, Celio is secretly a girl... or a genderless robot. {XD}

(Apparently, Bulbapedia has also forgotten that the Sevii Islands are supposed to be a "region." Ouch!)

You misread that. Celio is a PSS dev, but he's not "in charge" of the PSS in the Sevii Islands. I think Bill is still in charge of that. Sevii Islands is not a true region, and Bulbapedia doesn't treat it as such, despite having quick link to Sevii Islands under the Regions tab.

Wicked3DS February 28th, 2015 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8636734)
The big problem with Sevii is that GF, for the most part, used them as a dumping ground for things that we should've had access to in Kanto but didn't for the sole reason of being "faithful" (like breeding and berries). This also included trading compatibility with RSE, which is why we should've been able to trade from the start, as would later the case with HGSS and ORAS (in regards to DPP and XY, respectively); at least, people who didn't want to be restricted to just the first 150 would've had a way out.

Another major issue with the islands is that they simply had no identity. They lacked their own League, they had no backstory, their tilesets were ripped off from Kanto, their music was ripped off from Johto, and they were literally designed to be nothing but an extension to Kanto rather than a real region. Again, I can see why GF would want to just forget that they ever existed.

Dumping ground is a good word for it. The thing is, they could reuse it because it's convenient and people already know what it is. They could keep all of the ruins and areas with extra Pokémon, add some kind of battle frontier/resort or a league of its own, move breeding to Cerulean with the existing day care (and ditch the ledges O_O), and scatter the berries through out. I also think they could do some more with Icefall Path than just Waterfall and a lame battle at the end.

I have to disagree about the music being "ripped off from Johto" because I'm pretty sure that was intentional. It was part of them setting up HG/SS. I've since thought and I agree they could've done more, but there was definitely enough by way of hints at a next game. I also think maybe they didn't want to make it too obvious that HG/SS were going to exist.

BettyNewbie February 28th, 2015 1:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wicked3DS (Post 8636880)
Dumping ground is a good word for it. The thing is, they could reuse it because it's convenient and people already know what it is. They could keep all of the ruins and areas with extra Pokémon, add some kind of battle frontier/resort or a league of its own, move breeding to Cerulean with the existing day care (and ditch the ledges O_O), and scatter the berries through out. I also think they could do some more with Icefall Path than just Waterfall and a lame battle at the end.

Essentialy, what GF would need to do is not make Sevii a bunch of useless, generic islands that do little to improve the gameplay experience. Either put some thought into them, or you might as well just scrap them altogether and give us a real region.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wicked3DS (Post 8636880)
I have to disagree about the music being "ripped off from Johto" because I'm pretty sure that was intentional. It was part of them setting up HG/SS. I've since thought and I agree they could've done more, but there was definitely enough by way of hints at a next game. I also think maybe they didn't want to make it too obvious that HG/SS were going to exist.

Seeing as HGSS were A) a full five years away, and B) basically ignored Sevii's existence, I highly doubt that's likely. I think it was just GF being cheap and lazy.

Wicked3DS February 28th, 2015 2:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8636915)
Essentialy, what GF would need to do is not make Sevii a bunch of useless, generic islands that do little to improve the gameplay experience. Either put some thought into them, or you might as well just scrap them altogether and give us a real region.



Seeing as HGSS were A) a full five years away, and B) basically ignored Sevii's existence, I highly doubt that's likely. I think it was just GF being cheap and lazy.

I didn't think Sevii was that bad, but it wasn't very satisfying to complete later on when trading was the only thing it unlocked. The new Pokémon were definitely cool to see though, and catching the Unown is always a fun gimmick, even if it is just a gimmick.

Just because they weren't in HG/SS doesn't mean that they weren't used as a setup for them. You honestly think that there was ZERO thought about doing a Johto remake before and they could have hinted at it? I just think there's too much Johto stuff in that area to write it off completely.

Also, keep in mind that all of this is SUBJECTIVE to opinion as well unless GF comes out and says something. That was one of the things that drove me away from this thread before, it felt like my opinions held no weight and just were completely wrong.

BettyNewbie February 28th, 2015 3:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wicked3DS (Post 8636969)
I didn't think Sevii was that bad, but it wasn't very satisfying to complete later on when trading was the only thing it unlocked. The new Pokémon were definitely cool to see though, and catching the Unown is always a fun gimmick, even if it is just a gimmick.

What new Pokémon? Aside from Deoxys (which was event-only), the only "new" Pokémon that were in Sevii were things that we had already caught just a Generation earlier but had to catch all over again because of RS' compatibility kill. As for Unown, GSC (and later, HGSS) did it better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wicked3DS (Post 8636969)
Just because they weren't in HG/SS doesn't mean that they weren't used as a setup for them. You honestly think that there was ZERO thought about doing a Johto remake before and they could have hinted at it? I just think there's too much Johto stuff in that area to write it off completely.

Do you seriously think that GF plans games 5-6 years in advance? As far as I know, HGSS weren't in planning any earlier than 2006 (when DP first came out). Besides, HGSS didn't even reference Sevii, let alone include it; those islands basically ceased to exist after FRLG.

What GF was more than likely trying to do was give us a "fake Johto" in Sevii because they wouldn't let us visit the real one in Gen 3 for whatever reason.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire February 28th, 2015 4:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8637054)
What new Pokémon? Aside from Deoxys (which was event-only), the only "new" Pokémon that were in Sevii were things that we had already caught just a Generation earlier but had to catch all over again because of RS' compatibility kill. As for Unown, GSC (and later, HGSS) did it better.



Do you seriously think that GF plans games 5-6 years in advance? As far as I know, HGSS weren't in planning any earlier than 2006 (when DP first came out). Besides, HGSS didn't even reference Sevii, let alone include it; those islands basically ceased to exist after FRLG.

What GF was more than likely trying to do was give us a "fake Johto" in Sevii because they wouldn't let us visit the real one in Gen 3 for whatever reason.

I think that GF putting in real Johto may have required GF to actually do more work, as some of the gym leaders at the time of Gen II wouldn't have been gym leaders in Gen I/III time. Also it's possible that Johto was saved for it's remakes to make people anticipate Johto remakes. Of course they didn't do the same (by this I mean give the region a break) with Kanto now did they xD.

I think that GF should've put the Sevii into Emerald alongside the Frontier and called it a day (the islands were my favorite part of FrLg so I would've loved them in Emerald alongside the Frontier) instead of remaking Kanto and adding the islands to fill in the dex. Only the Sevii islands would be based on the Ryuukyu islands (which would lie south of Hoenn) instead of the Izu islands. Perhaps they would've put one facility on each island and have the Battle Tower be part of Seven island. We could still have had Lorelei pop up as a cameo.

Anyways back to reality. If the Sevii islands return perhaps GF will include the Orange islands as well. I say this as the Sevii islands are based on the Izu islands which are between the island Cinnabar is based on and the Bonin islands (which Orange is based on). Actually Izu consists of 9 main islands (despite it usually referred to as Seven even in real life), and according to coding there were meant to be 22 islands.

Cerberus87 February 28th, 2015 5:00 PM

Johto makes ZERO sense from a storyline perspective. Red is already the supreme trainer, what does he have to gain by going to Johto? It only made sense in GSC because there was still a challenge beyond the Champion, which was Red itself, so it was justified for Gold to go to Kanto and earn their badges as preparation to go to Mt. Silver.

BettyNewbie February 28th, 2015 5:35 PM

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Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8637123)
Johto makes ZERO sense from a storyline perspective. Red is already the supreme trainer, what does he have to gain by going to Johto?

Uh, 8 more badges? (Hey, if Gary Oak can have more than 8 badges...) Plus, we could learn more about why the PC eventually ended up on Mt. Silver. (Which IS in Johto, BTW.) Better than a bunch of dumb fetch-quests and a lame "Trainer Tower." (Which didn't exactly have the greatest story, themselves.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8637101)
I think that GF putting in real Johto may have required GF to actually do more work, as some of the gym leaders at the time of Gen II wouldn't have been gym leaders in Gen I/III time.

Considering the lack of effort that had been put into FRLG, maybe forcing GF to do more work would've been a good thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8637101)
I think that GF should've put the Sevii into Emerald alongside the Frontier and called it a day (the islands were my favorite part of FrLg so I would've loved them in Emerald alongside the Frontier) instead of remaking Kanto and adding the islands to fill in the dex. Only the Sevii islands would be based on the Ryuukyu islands (which would lie south of Hoenn) instead of the Izu islands. Perhaps they would've put one facility on each island and have the Battle Tower be part of Seven island. We could still have had Lorelei pop up as a cameo.

That would've been much better. {:3} I think Sevii would've worked better alongside Hoenn than they did Kanto. (Since Hoenn had more things than Kanto, they would've been used as a dumping ground for modern amenities nearly as much, and that awful Ruby/Sapphire fetch-quest obviously wouldn't have been needed at all. Then, they could've given us a quality Gen 1 remake on the DS in Gen 4. Perfect!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8637101)
Anyways back to reality. If the Sevii islands return perhaps GF will include the Orange islands as well. I say this as the Sevii islands are based on the Izu islands which are between the island Cinnabar is based on and the Bonin islands (which Orange is based on). Actually Izu consists of 9 main islands (despite it usually referred to as Seven even in real life), and according to coding there were meant to be 22 islands.

There'd be no point to having Sevii if you already have Orange, with its own League, backstory, and everything.

Cerberus87 February 28th, 2015 6:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8637148)
Uh, 8 more badges? (Hey, if Gary Oak can have more than 8 badges...) Plus, we could learn more about why the PC eventually ended up on Mt. Silver. (Which IS in Johto, BTW.) Better than a bunch of dumb fetch-quests and a lame "Trainer Tower." (Which didn't exactly have the greatest story, themselves.)

Yeah but you need something to happen after you get the other 8 badges. The problem is that, according to canon, there was nothing to happen, as Red was the supreme trainer after becoming Champion and later relinquishing his position, which actually made him even more important.

The Mt. Silver is in Johto but it's not accessible from Johto, only from Kanto.

Since the whole point of the gem quest was to create connectivity between RSE and FRLG, I think we can safely discard it as non-canon in the new timeline, especially since a future remake wouldn't need it, but that's only due to circumstance.

Red's trip to the Sevii Islands only covers a small part of his story post-Champion. He most certainly didn't need to go to Johto and earn the Johto badges, though. In GSC (and HGSS), however, there's dialogue that hints at the Kanto leaders thinking less of a Johto trainer like Gold (at least that's how I interpreted it), which means that, even after becoming Champion, Gold wasn't as widely respected as Red was.

Another thing is that a Johto storyline for Red wouldn't be nearly as long as his Kanto one. The Kanto story in GSC is MUCH shorter and there's almost nothing to do except fight gym leaders, collect items and do menial tasks like retrieving the Machine Part to the Power Plant. A Johto postgame in FRLG wouldn't necessarily be more fleshed out than what we got with the Sevii Islands. The GSC Kanto was a watered down version of the RBY one. There was probably space in the ROM to fit in Johto but there probably wouldn't be a lot of things to do in it since it would almost be a different game. Also, at least from memory, I don't remember NPCs addressing a possible Red trip to Johto in GSC, probably not to spoil the surprise, but if he really was there between RBY and GSC there would be people who remembered him.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire February 28th, 2015 6:20 PM

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Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8637178)
Yeah but you need something to happen after you get the other 8 badges. The problem is that, according to canon, there was nothing to happen, as Red was the supreme trainer after becoming Champion and later relinquishing his position, which actually made him even more important.

The Mt. Silver is in Johto but it's not accessible from Johto, only from Kanto.

Since the whole point of the gem quest was to create connectivity between RSE and FRLG, I think we can safely discard it as non-canon in the new timeline, especially since a future remake wouldn't need it, but that's only due to circumstance.

Red's trip to the Sevii Islands only covers a small part of his story post-Champion. He most certainly didn't need to go to Johto and earn the Johto badges, though. In GSC (and HGSS), however, there's dialogue that hints at the Kanto leaders thinking less of a Johto trainer like Gold (at least that's how I interpreted it), which means that, even after becoming Champion, Gold wasn't as widely respected as Red was.

Another thing is that a Johto storyline for Red wouldn't be nearly as long as his Kanto one. The Kanto story in GSC is MUCH shorter and there's almost nothing to do except fight gym leaders, collect items and do menial tasks like retrieving the Machine Part to the Power Plant. A Johto postgame in FRLG wouldn't necessarily be more fleshed out than what we got with the Sevii Islands. The GSC Kanto was a watered down version of the RBY one. There was probably space in the ROM to fit in Johto but there probably wouldn't be a lot of things to do in it since it would almost be a different game. Also, at least from memory, I don't remember NPCs addressing a possible Red trip to Johto in GSC, probably not to spoil the surprise, but if he really was there between RBY and GSC there would be people who remembered him.

I think that the dialogue you're talking about is a reference to the real world. People from the parts Johto is based on tend to be looked down as country bumpkins (think of how Northerners tend to view Southerners in the U.S. and you'll get the picture) by those in real life Kanto.

That's true, it would've been as bland as the Kanto story in the Johto centric games. I think that is one reason why GF isn't fond of letting us visit old regions in the newer games (not counting remakes as the region itself isn't really being 'visited').

One good thing about the Ruby-Sapphire quest is that it had references to the events of the Johto centric games, such as the research into evolution through magnetism/radio waves (Red Gyarados), Silver being Giovanni's son (more of a HGSS thing as GSC doesn't bring up a son), plus the last two executives we fight are likely Archer and Ariana. So all of the hints to the sequels in FRLG were in the post game...

BettyNewbie February 28th, 2015 6:58 PM

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Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8637178)
Yeah but you need something to happen after you get the other 8 badges.

What about E4 rematches? The PC (quit ignoring/erasing the female PCs) might also want to be Champion of the entire Indigo League and not just half of it. Adventure is a good enough reason.

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Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8637178)
A Johto postgame in FRLG wouldn't necessarily be more fleshed out than what we got with the Sevii Islands. The GSC Kanto was a watered down version of the RBY one.

Fighting old Gym Leaders and seeing familiar faces again, alone, is more enjoyable and superior to a bunch of silly fetch-quests. Plus, Johto is still an actual region with an actual backstory and culture and not a generic collection of islands with hardly anything to do.

Of course, there was a good alternative to Johto as a quality postgame area, but that required borrowing from the anime. (Which is what most fans wanted, anyways.)

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Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8637195)
That's true, it would've been as bland as the Kanto story in the Johto centric games. I think that is one reason why GF isn't fond of letting us visit old regions in the newer games (not counting remakes as the region itself isn't really being 'visited').

GF doesn't seem to like sequels period. (Even B2W2 were only made due to pressure from Nintendo, with the DS being a dying handheld and all.) Plus, a second region would be an adventure-centric postgame, which just won't fly in this day and age of competitive battling. :rolleyes2:

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire February 28th, 2015 7:17 PM

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Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8637235)
What about E4 rematches? The PC (quit ignoring/erasing the female PCs) might also want to be Champion of the entire Indigo League and not just half of it. Adventure is a good enough reason.



Fighting old Gym Leaders and seeing familiar faces again, alone, is more enjoyable and superior to a bunch of silly fetch-quests. Plus, Johto is still an actual region with an actual backstory and culture and not a generic collection of islands with hardly anything to do.

Of course, there was a good alternative to Johto as a quality postgame area, but that required borrowing from the anime. (Which is what most fans wanted, anyways.)



GF doesn't seem to like sequels period. (Even B2W2 were only made due to pressure from Nintendo, with the DS being a dying handheld and all.) Plus, a second region would be an adventure-centric postgame, which just won't fly in this day and age of competitive battling. :rolleyes2:

It doesn't even need to be a true sequel, it could just be a dropping by to visit with no ties between the stories outside of references to the past upon arriving to the old region.
Well that may be true, after all GF seems to be planning something else for XY than sequels (prequels?)

Which is likely why ORAS lacks a sub-region or second region while the first two sets of remakes had one (with Sevii filling the role of sub-region for FRLG), and considering that the Resort areas in Sinnoh are considered a sub-region of Sinnoh it is sure to be the only remake in awhile to lack one (unless if Sinnoh loses the Resort areas in it's remakes).

Wicked3DS February 28th, 2015 8:03 PM

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Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8637054)
Do you seriously think that GF plans games 5-6 years in advance?

Do you work for Game Freak? Did you even read this part?

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Originally Posted by Wicked3DS (Post 8636969)
Also, keep in mind that all of this is SUBJECTIVE to opinion as well unless GF comes out and says something. That was one of the things that drove me away from this thread before, it felt like my opinions held no weight and just were completely wrong.

Also, I can't rule it out. First of all, there was a console jump. GBA to DS was a fairly large leap in technology if you ask me. Plus, with new mechanics in the game and such, they may have wanted to make sure it was absolutely right. Games in general weren't being made as fast in the early 2000s, compared to now when a series is pumping out a new game every year.

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Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8637054)
Besides, HGSS didn't even reference Sevii, let alone include it; those islands basically ceased to exist after FRLG.

Is that an automatic prerequisite?

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Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8637054)
What GF was more than likely trying to do was give us a "fake Johto" in Sevii because they wouldn't let us visit the real one in Gen 3 for whatever reason.

Maybe because they gave it to us later on a better platform?

Cerberus87 February 28th, 2015 8:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8637235)
What about E4 rematches? The PC (quit ignoring/erasing the female PCs) might also want to be Champion of the entire Indigo League and not just half of it. Adventure is a good enough reason.

I said Red because like it or not and by force of RBY not having the female PC he ended up being canonized as his own entity separate from the player.

The "entire" Indigo League doesn't exist, Gold/Kris isn't any less Champion by having only the Johto badges. The only reason for collecting the Kanto badges is that there was a challenge beyond the League (Red). E4 rematch in HGSS is also completely optional.

Actually, if you take out the gyms, GSC Kanto has the same sort of menial tasks as the Sevii Islands, maybe even less. The Team Rocket "quest" in GSC Kanto was a joke, for example, while the Sevii Islands one foretold what would happen in Johto later on.

BettyNewbie February 28th, 2015 8:42 PM

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Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8637270)
It doesn't even need to be a true sequel, it could just be a dropping by to visit with no ties between the stories outside of references to the past upon arriving to the old region.

That's not really a sequel, though... Just a cameo.

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Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8637270)
Which is likely why ORAS lacks a sub-region or second region while the first two sets of remakes had one (with Sevii filling the role of sub-region for FRLG), and considering that the Resort areas in Sinnoh are considered a sub-region of Sinnoh it is sure to be the only remake in awhile to lack one (unless if Sinnoh loses the Resort areas in it's remakes).

Like XY and most of the other modern Pokémon games, ORAS were designed with the "metagame" in mind as the primary postgame. Once you finish the game, you're expected to dump your story team and breed/EV up a new one for either multiplayer or the Battle Maison. Giving you a second region to explore and new Badges to earn detracts from that main goal. :rolleyes2:

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Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8637362)
I said Red because like it or not and by force of RBY not having the female PC he ended up being canonized as his own entity separate from the player.

HGSS were supposed to be sequels to FRLG, not RBY. Besides, we're talking about a new remake in a new timeline, so it wouldn't be beholden to that screwup.

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Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8637362)
The "entire" Indigo League doesn't exist, Gold/Kris isn't any less Champion by having only the Johto badges. The only reason for collecting the Kanto badges is that there was a challenge beyond the League

The Indigo League covers both Kanto and Johto, which means 16 Badges. Yes, you only need 8 to fight the E4, but the actual League itself is still double that.

And, Kanto returned in GSC because GSC were meant to be direct sequels to RBY, and they wouldn't have been so without Kanto.

Geez, what do you have against getting more Badges? Or, just multiple regions being in the same game? (I thought you were a fan of Gen 2...) Not everyone is interested in competitive battling (be it multiplayer or battle facility), and a more substantial postgame would be great for them.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire February 28th, 2015 10:24 PM

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Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8637383)
That's not really a sequel, though... Just a cameo.



Like XY and most of the other modern Pokémon games, ORAS were designed with the "metagame" in mind as the primary postgame. Once you finish the game, you're expected to dump your story team and breed/EV up a new one for either multiplayer or the Battle Maison. Giving you a second region to explore and new Badges to earn detracts from that main goal. :rolleyes2:



HGSS were supposed to be sequels to FRLG, not RBY. Besides, we're talking about a new remake in a new timeline, so it wouldn't be beholden to that screwup.



The Indigo League covers both Kanto and Johto, which means 16 Badges. Yes, you only need 8 to fight the E4, but the actual League itself is still double that.

And, Kanto returned in GSC because GSC were meant to be direct sequels to RBY, and they wouldn't have been so without Kanto.

Geez, what do you have against getting more Badges? Or, just multiple regions being in the same game? (I thought you were a fan of Gen 2...) Not everyone is interested in competitive battling (be it multiplayer or battle facility), and a more substantial postgame would be great for them.

Exactly, it can just be a 'cameo' instead of a direct sequel.

It's more like there are two paths to enter the Indigo League, through Johto or through Kanto.

Sadly Kanto's gyms in GSCHgSs were easy to defeat. I think that's one of the reasons why GF hasn't added more than 8 badges beyond GSC and their remakes and likely why the facilities popped up (sadly it seems the Facilities are being ignored , or disliked by fans according to GF so there's no need for more than a half hearted attempt, just like what they gave to making the Kanto gym leaders a challenge in HgSs. Well in general the main story tends to be easy, but difficult easy). It would still be nice to have both the facilities and another region to explore (only games where this is the case are Crystal, HeartGold, and Soul Silver) post main story. Actually the very naming of the events from getting the Starter up to defeating the Champion as the main game is indicative that there is no plot after defeating the Champion (or Ghetsis in the case of BW). It'll be nice if the story encroached into the post game. The Delta Episode sort of felt like that...and given the fact that we couldn't access the Battle resort until beating it makes it seem more like part of the main story. If GF expands on that we could see a longer story even after the league.

BettyNewbie February 28th, 2015 10:51 PM

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Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8637492)
Exactly, it can just be a 'cameo' instead of a direct sequel.

Which is considerably more boring. :|

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Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8637492)
Sadly Kanto's gyms in GSCHgSs were easy to defeat. I think that's one of the reasons why GF hasn't added more than 8 badges beyond GSC and their remakes and likely why the facilities popped up (sadly it seems the Facilities are being ignored , or disliked by fans according to GF so there's no need for more than a half hearted attempt, just like what they gave to making the Kanto gym leaders a challenge in HgSs. Well in general the main story tends to be easy, but difficult easy). It would still be nice to have both the facilities and another region to explore (only games where this is the case are Crystal, HeartGold, and Soul Silver) post main story. Actually the very naming of the events from getting the Starter up to defeating the Champion as the main game is indicative that there is no plot after defeating the Champion (or Ghetsis in the case of BW). It'll be nice if the story encroached into the post game. The Delta Episode sort of felt like that...and given the fact that we couldn't access the Battle resort until beating it makes it seem more like part of the main story. If GF expands on that we could see a longer story even after the league.

Ideally, the battle facilities would just be an optional side area and not the entire postgame. You need to have something for people who aren't into competitive battling and don't feel like breeding/EV-ing up a new "perfect" team, and an extension of the story in a second postgame region would be the best way to go.

RandomDSdevel March 1st, 2015 8:33 AM

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing both Johto and the result of merging the Sevii Islands and the Orange Archipelago into a true region of its own in Kanto re-remakes! 24 badges would interesting and cool if they could pull it off and get the level curve right. And the battle facilities could still be there for competitive players, so it'd be a win all around!

Cerberus87 March 1st, 2015 12:23 PM

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Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8637383)
The Indigo League covers both Kanto and Johto, which means 16 Badges. Yes, you only need 8 to fight the E4, but the actual League itself is still double that.

And, Kanto returned in GSC because GSC were meant to be direct sequels to RBY, and they wouldn't have been so without Kanto.

Geez, what do you have against getting more Badges? Or, just multiple regions being in the same game? (I thought you were a fan of Gen 2...) Not everyone is interested in competitive battling (be it multiplayer or battle facility), and a more substantial postgame would be great for them.

I don't, but it's hard to cram two regions in all their glory into a cart. Graphics take a lot of space. I can see them doing it in a new remake, though, because Kanto is much smaller than Kalos.

At least in HGSS both regions were decently sized and fit into the cart with all the Kanto improvements. But you still need a bit of story for the postgame.

It's rare for a Pokémon game these days to feature only competitive battling in the postgame. Nor is it desirable. Even XY aren't exclusively competitive battling, however small the post game quest was.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire March 1st, 2015 2:04 PM

That's true, there was the Looker Episodes in XY, then in ORAS we got the Delta Episode. Actually there seems to be more story there than there was in Kanto in Gen II/IV...

BettyNewbie March 1st, 2015 2:57 PM

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Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8638454)
That's true, there was the Looker Episodes in XY, then in ORAS we got the Delta Episode. Actually there seems to be more story there than there was in Kanto in Gen II/IV...

Yeah, a couple of short side stories, and that's it. After they're done, unless you feel like breeding/EV-ing up a team for multiplayer or the battle facility, you might as well turn it off and play another game (Pokémon or otherwise).

Cerberus87 March 1st, 2015 3:44 PM

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Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8638454)
That's true, there was the Looker Episodes in XY, then in ORAS we got the Delta Episode. Actually there seems to be more story there than there was in Kanto in Gen II/IV...

The Kanto in GSC had a different value from the Delta Episode. The idea behind it was mainly to see how everything was after three years.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire March 1st, 2015 6:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8638513)
Yeah, a couple of short side stories, and that's it. After they're done, unless you feel like breeding/EV-ing up a team for multiplayer or the battle facility, you might as well turn it off and play another game (Pokémon or otherwise).

Well it's the same thing even with an extra region, once one defeats the gyms there is little else to do (especially if Gym rematches don't return). Actually defeating Kanto in Silver and SS took me as long as the Delta Episode did in OR...

@ Cerberus That's true. I must say that it's interesting how the rural regions have never been revisted in the future (or the past). Kalos will likely get prequels though...but Kalos is both rural and urban.

BettyNewbie March 1st, 2015 7:22 PM

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Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8638780)
Well it's the same thing even with an extra region, once one defeats the gyms there is little else to do (especially if Gym rematches don't return). Actually defeating Kanto in Silver and SS took me as long as the Delta Episode did in OR...

Well, every game eventually has to come to an end, but with an extra region you, at least, have more room for non-competitive content (like Gym Leader rematches). Minigames might also be worth looking into as postgame content.

Mega_Kris March 1st, 2015 7:31 PM

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Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8635722)
So, Gen 1 should just be left behind in the past and completely forgotten, then? Because, that's pretty much what's starting to happen. Fandom--even older fans--only care about the latest and greatest, which is why the Color/Metal and Advance Generation boards are less active than the others. If you're not into the newer games, then you don't have much of a community to turn to, anymore.

says the one who hates Firered/leafgreen for being nothing more than a remake.

I agree, Gen 1 shouldn't be forgotten. and what way to re-introduce it to fans without heavily modifying the original.

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The only reason Gen 1 (either RBY or FRLG) hasn't completely evaporated from memory is because of ROM hacks (and, more specifically, FireRed being the easiest base ever to hack, especially in comparison to the DS games). Sad that fan games are doing a better job of keeping the Gen alive than GF, but it is what it is.
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Well, that's technology for 'ya. Old games become obsolete with new handhelds, and GF has decided that remakes are the solution to that problem, for better or worse.
Which is why i suggested a Red/Blue combined with Gold/silver remake. makes perfect use of two regions.

Cerberus87 March 1st, 2015 9:13 PM

FRLG was a bit of a cheap way to complete the Pokédex, but it's not like GF said after releasing RS "hey, we need a way to complete the Pokédex... alright, let's remake Red and Blue!". I'd say the lack of classic Kanto Pokémon in RS was a sign that GF already planned before RS's release to remake Red and Blue to fill in the gaps.

Later remakes were pushed by public demand, though. The craze we saw with Hoenn in 2013, we had with Johto around the mid-2000s, which even led to the creation of the Shiny Gold hack. It remains to be seen if Sinnoh will get the same treatment, and when.

Mega_Kris March 1st, 2015 9:36 PM

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Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8638888)
FRLG was a bit of a cheap way to complete the Pokédex, but it's not like GF said after releasing RS "hey, we need a way to complete the Pokédex... alright, let's remake Red and Blue!". I'd say the lack of classic Kanto Pokémon in RS was a sign that GF already planned before RS's release to remake Red and Blue to fill in the gaps.

I'm positive that during the creation of RSE, they intended to make it as big as Gold/Silver (having two regions). but it couldn't fit it all due to overestimating the capabilities of the GBA. so separating it was most likely necessary. looking back at GBA's line of games. i never really saw a complete SNES level game except for the ports themselves.

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Later remakes were pushed by public demand, though. The craze we saw with Hoenn in 2013, we had with Johto around the mid-2000s, which even led to the creation of the Shiny Gold hack. It remains to be seen if Sinnoh will get the same treatment, and when.
Remakes were made by demand due to FireRed LeafGreen letting fans know Remakes were an option.

But even then, no one really wanted a full Ruby/Sapphire remake. And yet, one was announced. which was more of a remake.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire March 1st, 2015 9:51 PM

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Originally Posted by Shiny_Unown (Post 8638903)
I'm positive that during the creation of RSE, they intended to make it as big as Gold/Silver (having two regions). but it couldn't fit it all due to overestimating the capabilities of the GBA. so separating it was most likely necessary. looking back at GBA's line of games. i never really saw a complete SNES level game except for the ports themselves.

Remakes were made by demand due to FireRed LeafGreen letting fans know Remakes were an option.

But even then, no one really wanted a full Ruby/Sapphire remake. And yet, one was announced. which was more of a remake.

That may very well be possible as there were apparently dex numbers for Gen I and II Pokemon in the Hoenn dex that were never used according to Bulbapedia. Foolishly I thought that beating the BF in Emerald was going to open access to Kanto and Johto (this is before I played Silver and knew that there was a game that could allow us to go to a past region), oh the days of noobdom.

Anyways it appears that Gf wants to isolate the regions from one another, just look at the skip in route numbers between Kanto-Johto and Hoenn, Hoenn and Sinnoh, the reset of the route numbering back to 1 for Unova, and again for Kalos. It's speculated that the reason the Sevii islands lack route numbers was that it would have to pick up where Johto left off and fool people into thinking Johto was in the game too.

Cerberus87 March 1st, 2015 10:00 PM

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Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8638916)
Foolishly I thought that the beating the BF in Emerald was going to open access to Kanto and Johto (this is before I played Silver and knew that there was a game that could allow us to go to a past region), oh the days of noobdom.

Not worth the trouble, sorry. :P

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire March 1st, 2015 10:03 PM

Maybe they could make it that if we complete the regional dex we'll get access to another region.

Maybe for a Kanto re-remake we'll have the old 151 Kanto dex but at a certain point it'll get updated with all of the newest additions evolutions wise. They could make it so that Oak thinks there are only 151 but we reveal to Oak that isn't true with our dex finds.

Mega_Kris March 1st, 2015 10:22 PM

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Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8638929)
Maybe they could make it that if we complete the regional dex we'll get access to another region.

Maybe for a Kanto re-remake we'll have the old 151 Kanto dex but at a certain point it'll get updated with all of the newest additions evolutions wise. They could make it so that Oak thinks there are only 151 but we reveal to Oak that isn't true with our dex finds.

That would've been good for a Red/Gold and Blue/Silver remake.

BettyNewbie March 1st, 2015 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiny_Unown (Post 8638903)
I'm positive that during the creation of RSE, they intended to make it as big as Gold/Silver (having two regions). but it couldn't fit it all due to overestimating the capabilities of the GBA. so separating it was most likely necessary. looking back at GBA's line of games. i never really saw a complete SNES level game except for the ports themselves.

There's actually some merit to this. Hidden in RS's data are unused remixes from Gen 2, which suggests that Johto may have been planned as a secondary postgame region at one time. The fact that May/Brendan are stated in the games to come from Johto may be an artifact from these early plans.

There's also an unused string of text referring to the Time Capsule in RS's data, which might also suggest that GF was toying around with backwards compatibility with RBY/GSC early in development.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8638916)
Anyways it appears that Gf wants to isolate the regions from one another, just look at the skip in route numbers between Kanto-Johto and Hoenn, Hoenn and Sinnoh, the reset of the route numbering back to 1 for Unova, and again for Kalos. It's speculated that the reason the Sevii islands lack route numbers was that it would have to pick up where Johto left off and fool people into thinking Johto was in the game too.

Yeah, GF seems to be happy with every new region being an isolated "mini-reboot" with few-to-no connections to the previous ones. Continuity is hard.

Conveniently, this makes things easier for the anime, since sending Ash back to old regions to collect old badges is obviously out of the question. (Hence, the reason why they created a brand new League for Johto instead of just sending Ash back to the Indigo Plateau.)

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire March 2nd, 2015 9:22 AM

Maybe after they remake Sinnoh (and Kanto?) they'll make a game with all 4 Japanese regions (or make it part of a Yellow remake.) Anyways they should at least include the Original Saga regions in a Yellow remake with Sevii and/or Orange popping up at some point.

Cerberus87 March 3rd, 2015 4:52 PM

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Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8638952)
There's actually some merit to this. Hidden in RS's data are unused remixes from Gen 2, which suggests that Johto may have been planned as a secondary postgame region at one time. The fact that May/Brendan are stated in the games to come from Johto may be an artifact from these early plans.

There's also an unused string of text referring to the Time Capsule in RS's data, which might also suggest that GF was toying around with backwards compatibility with RBY/GSC early in development.

Usually this kind of stuff is leftovers from earlier games or something they put in to test things, but it's interesting nonetheless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8638952)
Yeah, GF seems to be happy with every new region being an isolated "mini-reboot" with few-to-no connections to the previous ones. Continuity is hard.

Conveniently, this makes things easier for the anime, since sending Ash back to old regions to collect old badges is obviously out of the question. (Hence, the reason why they created a brand new League for Johto instead of just sending Ash back to the Indigo Plateau.)

I think the first four are supposed to be pretty close to each other, but Unova and Kalos are stated to be far away from the others.

BettyNewbie March 3rd, 2015 5:46 PM

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Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8641060)
Usually this kind of stuff is leftovers from earlier games or something they put in to test things, but it's interesting nonetheless.

These can't be leftovers since RS were built up from scratch. The Time Capsule text is especially odd, since RS were particularly infamous for their lack of backwards compatibility. As I said, it makes me wonder if GF was toying around with compatibility early in development, like through a one-way transfer (possibly involving the GameCube) and just scrapped it because it would be too difficult.

Any plans to include Johto as a postgame region may have been a similar story. It's possible that GF wanted to include Johto as a means of obtaining the "missing" Pokémon without trading back with RBY/GSC, but then ran out of space after making Hoenn so large. As I said, I always found it odd how May/Brendan were stated in the games to have moved to Hoenn from Johto, yet Johto, itself, was never revisited in the games. (Even FRLG didn't directly reference Johto, despite literally taking place next door to it.) Could this be an artifact from these scrapped plans?

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire March 3rd, 2015 7:13 PM

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Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8641115)
These can't be leftovers since RS were built up from scratch. The Time Capsule text is especially odd, since RS were particularly infamous for their lack of backwards compatibility. As I said, it makes me wonder if GF was toying around with compatibility early in development, like through a one-way transfer (possibly involving the GameCube) and just scrapped it because it would be too difficult.

Any plans to include Johto as a postgame region may have been a similar story. It's possible that GF wanted to include Johto as a means of obtaining the "missing" Pokémon without trading back with RBY/GSC, but then ran out of space after making Hoenn so large. As I said, I always found it odd how May/Brendan were stated in the games to have moved to Hoenn from Johto, yet Johto, itself, was never revisited in the games. (Even FRLG didn't directly reference Johto, despite literally taking place next door to it.) Could this be an artifact from these scrapped plans?

The Johto music could also had been planned for an eventual Kanto remake with Johto in it but was dropped, and instead the music was used for the Sevii islands.

The scary thing is that this Gen almost ended up like Gen III had the Pokebank not worked (GF said they were trying different stuff to try to enable transfer from Gen V to VI prior to confirming Pokebank). Actually my guess is that the mass amount of Pokemon in the Kalos dexes was an attempt of avoiding another Hoenn should Pokebank fail, while ORAS having all of the legends is likely an extension of this. It does make one wonder if GF might have made plans to remake Kanto-Unova too.

BettyNewbie March 3rd, 2015 8:50 PM

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Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8641220)
The Johto music could also had been planned for an eventual Kanto remake with Johto in it but was dropped, and instead the music was used for the Sevii islands.

Couldn't be, because the Johto song in RS is Route 38's music, while FRLG only used the Violet/Azalea/Lake of Rage themes. And, there's zero evidence that Johto was ever planned for FRLG; as I said, the region isn't even mentioned by name in the entire game, despite literally taking place next door to it.

FRLG acted as if Johto never existed, which felt like a slap in the face to anyone who had played and enjoyed the Gen 2 games just a few years earlier. The games really were made for newcomers instead of veterans. :sideways:

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8641220)
The scary thing is that this Gen almost ended up like Gen III had the Pokebank not worked (GF said they were trying different stuff to try to enable transfer from Gen V to VI prior to confirming Pokebank). Actually my guess is that the mass amount of Pokemon in the Kalos dexes was an attempt of avoiding another Hoenn should Pokebank fail, while ORAS having all of the legends is likely an extension of this. It does make one wonder if GF might have made plans to remake Kanto-Unova too.

That's what I've always thought, too. Of course, for the purposes of official tournaments and Pokédex completion, Blue Pentagon restrictions ended up causing a similar effect, anyways. Before ORAS, many Pokémon were still unavailable in the Gen 6 games, and while you could, at least, breed most of them to get a Blue Pentagon, there was no doing that with Legendaries (hence the reason why ORAS crammed as many of them into one game). Now, there are only 5 Pokémon left that are still unavailable in Gen 6, and they're all event Legendaries that don't count towards Dex completion and are banned in official tournaments, anyways--Mew, Manaphy, Arceus, Meloetta, and Genesect.

Gligar March 3rd, 2015 10:12 PM

Tbh, I'd like to have a new region more than a red and blue re-make. We already have ORAS, which is a re-make, so I don't think a re-make after a re-make will be fun.

Think about it, when X and Y came out, there was so much hype, the hype stayed like for months and months! But for ORAS, after a couple of months or so, people got less hyped about it.

I'm just saying I would LOVE a new region with ne pokemon, cuz new regions are just naturally more fun than re-makes!

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire March 3rd, 2015 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8641329)
Couldn't be, because the Johto song in RS is Route 38's music, while FRLG only used the Violet/Azalea/Lake of Rage themes. And, there's zero evidence that Johto was ever planned for FRLG; as I said, the region isn't even mentioned by name in the entire game, despite literally taking place next door to it.

FRLG acted as if Johto never existed, which felt like a slap in the face to anyone who had played and enjoyed the Gen 2 games just a few years earlier. The games really were made for newcomers instead of veterans. :sideways:



That's what I've always thought, too. Of course, for the purposes of official tournaments and Pokédex completion, Blue Pentagon restrictions ended up causing a similar effect, anyways. Before ORAS, many Pokémon were still unavailable in the Gen 6 games, and while you could, at least, breed most of them to get a Blue Pentagon, there was no doing that with Legendaries (hence the reason why ORAS crammed as many of them into one game). Now, there are only 5 Pokémon left that are still unavailable in Gen 6, and they're all event Legendaries that don't count towards Dex completion and are banned in official tournaments, anyways--Mew, Manaphy, Arceus, Meloetta, and Genesect.

I think a Kanto remake with Mew having a post game plot similar to Deoxys (but not necessary as world destroying) and being captured afterwards can take care of one of those five. Also the new movie is said to have an event Arceus (Japan only) so the only ones left are going to be Mew, Manaphy, Meloetta, and Genesect (well for Japan as I don't believe those of us outside of Japan will get an Arceus event anytime soon, plus its been ages since we last had a Shaymin event...then there's Jirachi, Victini, and Keldeo.)
Actually Kanto is the only region to not have a legend (,or even a mascot outside of Pikachu) (that we know as of right now) in the newest movie (Gen II: Lugia, Gen III: Weather Trio, Gen IV: Creation Trio, Regigigas, Gen V: Tao Trio, Gen VI: Hoopa)...but then again we did see Mewtwo in the last movie of Gen V's anime saga.

BettyNewbie March 4th, 2015 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mimimahboul (Post 8641409)
Tbh, I'd like to have a new region more than a red and blue re-make. We already have ORAS, which is a re-make, so I don't think a re-make after a re-make will be fun.

Think about it, when X and Y came out, there was so much hype, the hype stayed like for months and months! But for ORAS, after a couple of months or so, people got less hyped about it.

I'm just saying I would LOVE a new region with ne pokemon, cuz new regions are just naturally more fun than re-makes!

I see you're a younger fan. :P

I've moved past the point of caring about new regions, myself. I still haven't fully warmed up to Hoenn, Sinnoh, and Unova, and Kalos doesn't incite anything but a shrug from me. It's hard for new regions to stick or even feel special anymore when GF is constantly hitting the reset button with every new Gen and re-recycling the same basic formula they've been using since RS ad nauseum. When so many previous regions and characters have stories that are still incomplete, it's hard to give a damn about the new ones.

It would be a dream come true if Gen 7's main games were not another micro-reboot, but instead, a direct sequel to a previous Generation. (You know, like what Gen 2 was to Gen 1?) I'm more than ready to see older regions and characters in games that aren't remakes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8641441)
I think a Kanto remake with Mew having a post game plot similar to Deoxys (but not necessary as world destroying) and being captured afterwards can take care of one of those five. Also the new movie is said to have an event Arceus (Japan only) so the only ones left are going to be Mew, Manaphy, Meloetta, and Genesect (well for Japan as I don't believe those of us outside of Japan will get an Arceus event anytime soon, plus its been ages since we last had a Shaymin event...then there's Jirachi, Victini, and Keldeo.)

Yeah, Japan gets all of the goods for themselves. :rolleyes2: As I said, luckily, none of these Pokémon are actually required for Dex completion (because that would be cruel), and they're all banned from official tournaments, anyways, but right now, it's impossible to get a Blue Pentagon on them without cheating.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire March 4th, 2015 3:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8641884)
I see you're a younger fan. :P

I've moved past the point of caring about new regions, myself. I still haven't fully warmed up to Hoenn, Sinnoh, and Unova, and Kalos doesn't incite anything but a shrug from me. It's hard for new regions to stick or even feel special anymore when GF is constantly hitting the reset button with every new Gen and re-recycling the same basic formula they've been using since RS ad nauseum. When so many previous regions and characters have stories that are still incomplete, it's hard to give a damn about the new ones.

It would be a dream come true if Gen 7's main games were not another micro-reboot, but instead, a direct sequel to a previous Generation. (You know, like what Gen 2 was to Gen 1?) I'm more than ready to see older regions and characters in games that aren't remakes.



Yeah, Japan gets all of the goods for themselves. :rolleyes2: As I said, luckily, none of these Pokémon are actually required for Dex completion (because that would be cruel), and they're all banned from official tournaments, anyways, but right now, it's impossible to get a Blue Pentagon on them without cheating.

I think that Gen VII is our best bet for that right now. In all likelihood it'll be a Kalos sequel (the fact that the next Kalos games may be prequels leaves space for a sequel to XY in the form of Gen VII). Of course it may get boring to see Kalos again...if it gets two prequels this Gen it'll have 4 games, as much as Japanese Kanto, and then likely Gen VII will have more versions than the Johto games had (in three). Some would say Hoenn but there's not much to do in Hoenn so it'll be as boring as Kanto in Gen II/IV was (unless if it has the Frontier...) Maybe it could be Unova sequels in a nearby region and we'll get the Original dragon in the end.

Funny that we're talking about sequels in this thread as there is a decent chuck that would rather see sequels rather than remakes of old games...

BettyNewbie March 4th, 2015 5:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8642285)
I think that Gen VII is our best bet for that right now. In all likelihood it'll be a Kalos sequel (the fact that the next Kalos games may be prequels leaves space for a sequel to XY in the form of Gen VII). Of course it may get boring to see Kalos again...if it gets two prequels this Gen it'll have 4 games, as much as Japanese Kanto, and then likely Gen VII will have more versions than the Johto games had (in three). Some would say Hoenn but there's not much to do in Hoenn so it'll be as boring as Kanto in Gen II/IV was (unless if it has the Frontier...)

A Hoenn sequel could be easy way to reintroduce Emerald features (like the BF, Juan, etc.) that people were upset about seeing scrapped without retreading the Gen 3 story a third time. As for Kalos, well, many fans considered the region to be bland and forgettable, so a sequel would have the potential to redeem it and fix its many storytelling issues.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8642285)
Maybe it could be Unova sequels in a nearby region and we'll get the Original dragon in the end.

Uh, Unova already got its sequels. :P And, besides, none of those games exist on the current timeline anymore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8642285)
Funny that we're talking about sequels in this thread as there is a decent chuck that would rather see sequels rather than remakes of old games...

Well, that opportunity was kind of missed as soon as FRLG were greenlit. {XD} Plus, the new timeline kind of prevents sequels to games other than XY or ORAS, as you can't have a sequel without a prequel, and I seriously doubt that GF will ever return to an older timeline.

(Plus, anything that involves Kanto/Johto would be a sequel to a sequel and would probably screw up continuity even more than HGSS did in relation to FRLG. A sequel would be saddled with HGSS's storytelling flaws, such as Kris and Green not existing, Giovanni not being repentant about Team Rocket's actions (and the poor send-off Team Rocket got, in general), Lorelei being non-existent in a vacant black hole, Agatha being presumably dead without importance, and so on.)

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire March 4th, 2015 7:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8642389)
A Hoenn sequel could be easy way to reintroduce Emerald features (like the BF, Juan, etc.) that people were upset about seeing scrapped without retreading the Gen 3 story a third time. As for Kalos, well, many fans considered the region to be bland and forgettable, so a sequel would have the potential to redeem it and fix its many storytelling issues.



Uh, Unova already got its sequels. :P And, besides, none of those games exist on the current timeline anymore.



Well, that opportunity was kind of missed as soon as FRLG were greenlit. {XD} Plus, the new timeline kind of prevents sequels to games other than XY or ORAS, as you can't have a sequel without a prequel, and I seriously doubt that GF will ever return to an older timeline.

(Plus, anything that involves Kanto/Johto would be a sequel to a sequel and would probably screw up continuity even more than HGSS did in relation to FRLG. A sequel would be saddled with HGSS's storytelling flaws, such as Kris and Green not existing, Giovanni not being repentant about Team Rocket's actions (and the poor send-off Team Rocket got, in general), Lorelei being non-existent in a vacant black hole, Agatha being presumably dead without importance, and so on.)

I meant a sequel to B2W2 to conclude the story, but you're right it wouldn't work...
Well at this point if Gen VII resets the timeline back to Gen I/III (or any that is before Kalos XY) time then we can say goodbye to possible Hoenn sequels too (at least until Delta Emerald is made...) as that'll essentially throw the current timeline out of the window like RSE and FRLG themselves did with the Original timeline...

Green? Oh right 'Leaf' :P I'm surprised they didn't give her a real name...in Japan they should have named her Blue and outside of Japan Green. Fun fact, Red is actually one of her default names...I think that's the only such case.
Well we got Lyra...so it's only Leaf that is missing...

BettyNewbie March 4th, 2015 8:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8642508)
Well at this point if Gen VII resets the timeline back to Gen I/III (or any that is before Kalos XY) time then we can say goodbye to possible Hoenn sequels too (at least until Delta Emerald is made...) as that'll essentially throw the current timeline out of the window like RSE and FRLG themselves did with the Original timeline...

Delta Emerald won't be made, sorry. :P

The timeline is pretty screwed up, mostly thanks to Gen 6's poor writing and planning. A lot of times, I really do wish that ORAS had been sequels instead...

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8642508)
Green? Oh right 'Leaf' :P I'm surprised they didn't give her a real name...in Japan they should have named her Blue and outside of Japan Green. Fun fact, Red is actually one of her default names...I think that's the only such case.

Well, her Adventures counterpart (aka. pretty much the only version of her that has an official name) is "Blue" in Japan and "Green" overseas. I prefer to call her Green, because I feel that would've been her canon name had she been canonized (as she should've). "Leaf" makes zero sense, and it doesn't have any parallelism with Red and Blue, unlike the other protagonist names.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8642508)
Well we got Lyra...

Lyra is not Kris. Not in any stretch of the imagination.

Cerberus87 March 4th, 2015 8:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8641884)
I've moved past the point of caring about new regions, myself. I still haven't fully warmed up to Hoenn, Sinnoh, and Unova, and Kalos doesn't incite anything but a shrug from me. It's hard for new regions to stick or even feel special anymore when GF is constantly hitting the reset button with every new Gen and re-recycling the same basic formula they've been using since RS ad nauseum. When so many previous regions and characters have stories that are still incomplete, it's hard to give a damn about the new ones.

Unova could've been the best region if GF didn't have the asinine idea of placing most of the cities around the Entralink and the rest in what's basically a straight line to Nimbasa. It made sense, but it wasn't good design.

I quite like Kalos, myself. It's way diverse.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire March 4th, 2015 8:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8642574)
Delta Emerald won't be made, sorry. :P

The timeline is pretty screwed up, mostly thanks to Gen 6's poor writing and planning. A lot of times, I really do wish that ORAS had been sequels instead...



Well, her Adventures counterpart (aka. pretty much the only version of her that has an official name) is "Blue" in Japan and "Green" overseas. I prefer to call her Green, because I feel that would've been her canon name had she been canonized (as she should've). "Leaf" makes zero sense, and it doesn't have any parallelism with Red and Blue, unlike the other protagonist names.



Lyra is not Kris. Not in any stretch of the imagination.

I mean in due time, not right away...I mean Hoenn will eventually need re-remakes too you know (and this is why people rather not have re-remakes to begin with folks...)

BettyNewbie March 4th, 2015 9:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8642588)
Unova could've been the best region if GF didn't have the asinine idea of placing most of the cities around the Entralink and the rest in what's basically a straight line to Nimbasa. It made sense, but it wasn't good design.

I quite like Kalos, myself. It's way diverse.

Unova's more involved story could be partially blamed for its linear design. The Gym Leaders were directly involved in the plot, so it was actually necessary to fight them all in order, which required making the region extremely linear to avoid any possibility of sequence breaking.

As for Kalos, well, it has a very large Pokédex. :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8642594)
I mean in due time, not right away...I mean Hoenn will eventually need re-remakes too you know (and this is why people rather not have re-remakes to begin with folks...)

Yeah, it's a hard reality that remakes, themselves, will eventually become outdated, which is just something that can't be avoided at all. Again, it makes me wish that ORAS had just been sequels, which would've avoided this mess to begin with.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire March 4th, 2015 9:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8642650)
Unova's more involved story could be partially blamed for its linear design. The Gym Leaders were directly involved in the plot, so it was actually necessary to fight them all in order, which required making the region extremely linear to avoid any possibility of sequence breaking.

As for Kalos, well, it has a very large Pokédex. :P



Yeah, it's a hard reality that remakes, themselves, will eventually become outdated, which is just something that can't be avoided at all. Again, it makes me wish that ORAS had just been sequels, which would've avoided this mess to begin with.

If ORAS were sequels they would've needed to have the BF xD. Also the evil Team would likely have been a copy of Neo Rocket or Neo Plasma...and those two are my least favorite Villainous Teams... I say this as they likely would've revived Magma and/or Aqua...also what would they be sequels of, RS or Emerald? (well considering the Delta Episode Emerald would've been likely). Hoenn is the region with the least hanging plot lines, as Archie and Maxie actually gave up unlike Giovanni, also the legends were taken care of. Maybe if they were Gen VII and was simply a post game place (they would've been loose sequels though)...
Things may have worked better if GF had made RSE take place some time after GSC and had FRLg restart the timeline, splitting the Gen between two timelines (it'll require putting them at the end of the Generation or in Gen IV all together), and had RSE take place at the same time as XY, and then reset once more for Gen VII and Kanto remakes...

BettyNewbie March 4th, 2015 9:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8642663)
If ORAS were sequels they would've needed to have the BF xD. Also the evil Team would likely have been a copy of Neo Rocket or Neo Plasma...and those two are my least favorite Villainous Teams... I say this as they likely would've revived Magma and/or Aqua...also what would they be sequels of, RS or Emerald? (well considering the Delta Episode Emerald would've been likely). Hoenn is the region with the least hanging plot lines, as Archie and Maxie actually gave up unlike Giovanni, also the legends were taken care of. Maybe if they were Gen VII and was simply a post game place (they would've been loose sequels though)...

They could've just had a new evil team, maybe one based around Sand/the desert that used Rock/Ground Pokémon. Obviously, it would've been a sequel to Emerald instead of RS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8642663)
Things may have worked better if GF had made RSE take place some time after GSC and had FRLg restart the timeline, splitting the Gen between two timelines (it'll require putting them at the end of the Generation or in Gen IV all together), and had RSE take place at the same time as XY, and then reset once more for Gen VII and Kanto remakes...

... Which is pretty similar to what they did with XY and ORAS, and we all know how that turned out. :P

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire March 4th, 2015 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8642693)
They could've just had a new evil team, maybe one based around Sand/the desert that used Rock/Ground Pokémon. Obviously, it would've been a sequel to Emerald instead of RS.



... Which is pretty similar to what they did with XY and ORAS, and we all know how that turned out. :P

Well that's why I said put it at the end of the Generation, or in Gen IV all together. GF should've done ORAS at the end of Gen VII I think...and had Gen VII and Kanto re-remakes pick up from there. We could also have avoided this mess if RSE had been remade in Gen V instead...(more so if Gen V was on the 3DS instead of the DS).

Anyways crying over spilled Moomoo Milk won't help now...

BettyNewbie March 5th, 2015 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8642728)
Anyways crying over spilled Moomoo Milk won't help now...

No, it won't. What's done is done.

At this point, the main thing that needs to be taken into account is practicality, and it's simply more practical to remake RBY over DPP next. It's the only Gen that can't be played on the 3DS in any way, shape, or form, and the games are also far more outdated and thus, stand to gain more from a fresh remake. Yes, it's a remake of a Gen that has already been remade, but said remake is over a decade old now, and there isn't an easy, practical, legal way to play either version of the Gen anymore.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire March 5th, 2015 8:12 AM

Or it's too expensive to buy a new cartridge and a working GBA, or DS/DS lite. I sadly lost my FR so... well at this point Gen I is the only one I don't own any games of...

I think if GF is going to do it it'll be by 2018, if not then 2021...if not...well who knows...likely never... at least until the children of our generation (if you're Gen Y) are our age...

BettyNewbie March 5th, 2015 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8643047)
I think if GF is going to do it it'll be by 2018, if not then 2021...if not...well who knows...likely never... at least until the children of our generation (if you're Gen Y) are our age...

We'll be too old to care by then. Heck, even by 2021, most of us will be in our 30s.

Well, if it never happens, I guess Gen 1 fans will, at least, always have hacks. No, it's not the same as a "real" remake, but it's better than nothing. Maybe, it's just inevitable that Kanto/Johto and older fans, in general, will eventually be left behind. :sideways:

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire March 5th, 2015 7:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8643192)
We'll be too old to care by then. Heck, even by 2021, most of us will be in our 30s.

Well, if it never happens, I guess Gen 1 fans will, at least, always have hacks. No, it's not the same as a "real" remake, but it's better than nothing. Maybe, it's just inevitable that Kanto/Johto/Hoenn and older fans, in general, will eventually be left behind. :sideways:

I added another region to the list. Well there's still hope, but if it/they don't come by Gen VIII at the latest then it/they won't happen...

BettyNewbie March 5th, 2015 7:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8643766)
I added another region to the list.

That's true. After ORAS, it'll probably be a long time until we see Hoenn again. (Emerald fans might as well join Yellow fans at the ignored table.) Again, it's a shame that GF won't revisit old regions in more ways than just remakes. :(

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire March 5th, 2015 10:03 PM

I wonder if they do re remake the Gen I games if they will be on the 3DS. No system has had more than one remake pair, but then again re-remakes themselves likely will be part of a different pattern than the first time remakes we've seen...

BettyNewbie March 6th, 2015 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8643909)
I wonder if they do re remake the Gen I games if they will be on the 3DS. No system has had more than one remake pair, but then again re-remakes themselves likely will be part of a different pattern than the first time remakes we've seen...

Well, remember that the biggest thing that separates Gen 3 from Gens 1 and 2 in the first place is that it's the first Gen to include a remake pair of its own. I don't think that previously-established remake "patterns" will play out the same from here on out.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire March 6th, 2015 10:18 AM

They could actually still remake them this Gen...seeing how they could just update the trading data in XYORAS like they did with Pokébank being able to read ORAS. Then by Gen VIII we can look forward to DP and Gen II remakes :3.

BettyNewbie March 6th, 2015 3:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8644466)
They could actually still remake them this Gen...seeing how they could just update the trading data in XYORAS like they did with Pokébank being able to read ORAS. Then by Gen VIII we can look forward to DP and Gen II remakes :3.

Well, we know that there are exactly two games left in Gen 6, and both Z and X2Y2 have been ruled out, so they could very well be 20th Anniversary Gen 1 remakes. I still don't think we'll see Gen 1 remakes until Gen 7, but you never know. It would certainly be a good explanation for why neither Z or X2Y2 are happening (as much as it may piss off Kalos fans).

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire March 6th, 2015 4:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8644963)
Well, we know that there are exactly two games left in Gen 6, and both Z and X2Y2 have been ruled out, so they could very well be 20th Anniversary Gen 1 remakes. I still don't think we'll see Gen 1 remakes until Gen 7, but you never know. It would certainly be a good explanation for why neither Z or X2Y2 are happening (as much as it may piss off Kalos fans).

Or they could also do a single prequel where the choices of the player determine if X or Y's events happen (like if you pick Xerneas then Y is , but Yvetal then X is) after the game. Players have wanted a game where our choices impacts the outcome, and considering GF meantioned they wanted to surprise fans it'll be a pleasant surprise. The last game can be a Yellow remake.

Or perhaps they'll save a return for Kalos for next Gen (considering how close the games are it'll be better than having prequels, then having Kalos pop up in the games the next year...it'll be worse than Cynthia popping up in three sets of games one year apart each xD (note this doesn't count DP and B2W2...)).

BettyNewbie March 6th, 2015 4:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8645000)
Or they could also do a single prequel where the choices of the player determine if X or Y's events happen (like if you pick Xerneas then Y is , but Yvetal then X is) after the game. Players have wanted a game where our choices impacts the outcome, and considering GF meantioned they wanted to surprise fans it'll be a pleasant surprise. The last game can be a Yellow remake.

That could be interesting, although is there really that great of a difference between X and Y besides the Box Legendary and wild Pokémon?

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8645000)
Or perhaps they'll save a return for Kalos for next Gen (considering how close the games are it'll be better than having prequels, then having Kalos pop up in the games the next year...

Seeing how long it's been since another Gen has been a direct sequel to the previous one, I think that would be a pleasant surprise to many. I think a GSC-style sequel would work, especially since the newer technology means that postgame Kalos won't be as barren as postgame Kanto was.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire March 6th, 2015 4:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8645030)
That could be interesting, although is there really that great of a difference between X and Y besides the Box Legendary and wild Pokémon?



Seeing how long it's been since another Gen has been a direct sequel to the previous one, I think that would be a pleasant surprise to many. I think a GSC-style sequel would work, especially since the newer technology means that postgame Kalos won't be as barren as postgame Kanto was.

Not really, but it's the small differences which may make them doing something like it likely, since all of the player's choices result in relatively minor stuff...


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