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TheRabbit December 26th, 2014 8:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8548916)
And, yet, Red is the only one who appears at the end of Mt. Silver. Leaf isn't anywhere to be found.

True, but the canon storyline has Red borrowing Blue and Leaf's Charizard and Blastoise and going to Mt Silver, so that's what the in-game event refers to. Leaf could still be kicking it elsewhere.

BettyNewbie December 26th, 2014 9:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRabbit (Post 8549088)
True, but the canon storyline has Red borrowing Blue and Leaf's Charizard and Blastoise and going to Mt Silver, so that's what the in-game event refers to. Leaf could still be kicking it elsewhere.

Um, nope. Adventures =/ game canon. You might as well be referring to Ash and Gary.

In the original timeline (read RBY and GSC), it's obvious that Red started with a Pikachu and got the other three starters from the Cerulean, Route 24, and Vermillion events (thus, making Yellow canon). It's HGSS that screwed things up by keeping the battle the same (save for swapping out Espeon for Lapras), even though they were supposed to be sequels to FRLG, not Yellow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8548995)
Honestly if it weren't for Firered I probably wouldn't have gotten into Pokemon games (as it was the one that led me to buying Emerald), at least not during Gen III as Gen IV was dawning up us by then. So even though Kanto isn't my favorite I have some attachment to the region for that reason, and for establishing the series as a whole.

Ah, so you're a newer fan. I started out with Yellow way back in 1999 (right at the peak of the Fad) and had pretty much lost interest by the time Ruby and Sapphire came out, so my perspective's a little bit different from yours. Did you ever go back and play the originals after playing the remakes, by any chance?

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8548995)
Also I hate to say it but most of the hate towards Kanto happened during Gen IV as people were tired of Kanto appearing yet again (with HgSs Kanto had appeared in every gen at the time). Though I got tired of Kanto being in every generation it is a very dumb reason to hate it now that I think about it rationally. GSC had Kanto in them so it'll only make sense for HgSs to have them. FrLg were remakes of RG so of course they'll have Hoenn. So there was no avoiding Kanto appearing every gen unless if they removed Kanto from HgSs at the time, but that would've made the games feel like they lost a lot.

I'm sure you meant to say "FrLg were remakes of RG so of course they'll have Kanto," right?

I definitely agree with you here. The only reason that Kanto appeared in Gens 3 and 4 was because of remakes, not because it was being shoehorned into newer games. If Kanto had been stuffed into DPP the same way Cynthia was stuffed into HGSS and BW, then sure, they'd have a reason to complain, but it wasn't.

Of course, I know that there are some people who wish that Kanto was never in GSC in the first place and that Johto was more isolated like Hoenn and Sinnoh (a view that I strongly disagree with).

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8548995)
Speaking of Kanto, thus far Kanto has appeared not just in every universe pre-Gen VI but also has appeared in every device I mentioned earlier except for the device hosting Gen VI of course. If GF plans to keep that up they'll going to have to have Kanto appear in the 3DS. The best thing to do I think is to skip having another round of Kanto remakes in Gen VI and have Gen VII also be in the 3DS (and maybe marketed for the New 3DS but be playable on the 3DS like how GS was for GBC but was playable for GB too) with enhancements for the New 3DS and have the Kanto remakes in that Gen. That way people would get two Gen's off of Kanto and be able to better appreciate it (Kanto as a region had EDPP in between its two most recent appearances but people still found it annoying in HgSs, hopefully two Gens and a pair (with maybe a third version added in) will do the trick).

This would probably be another reason to do Yellow and Crystal together. There, we can knock out both Kantos with one stone; people who are tired of the region will only have to see it for one more Generation, not two.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire December 26th, 2014 10:25 PM

That's true.

As for the originals, I had a friend who let me borrow his Silver (it was very fun and made me look forward to HgSs...which after Pt I thought would never happen (after B2W2 I started to feel the same way about Hoenn remakes)). Even with the latest remakes I still play Emerald sometimes (btw OrAs is as bad as you say FrLg, HgSs were in terms of how they treated Yellow and Crystal. For example Steven says to the player that they have to stop the 'TeamS' not the singular 'Team' even though only one is doing things while the other is aiding the player... also the Delta Episode made the games feel as if they were trying to be both R/S and Emerald remakes at the same time. I feel DP's will be the same way...). RBY were the only ones I didn't play...that I recall. I have a faint memory of playing something that resembled Kanto... before ever playing Firered (this would be in late 2002 to early 2003 during a trip to Mexico so before Hoenn came out in NA)I think it may have been the original Red. I didn't play it long enough to make any kind of review. Both that and FireRed I borrowed from cousins.

It would be better. Also people seem to be tired of the bird trio appearing every Gen (except V)...now jabbing it into Pt and XY was kind of out of nowhere (well not as bad as the dozen legends appearing in OrAs. Also people tend to overlook that the Regi,Lake, and the three Unova trios have appeared in every gen since their intro. Also the Beast, Weather, and Creation trio along with the Bird Duo (though in Gen III H and L were events) has appeared in every gen after their intro too minus V too, same goes for Mewtwo but no one seems to complain about Mewtwo...shows the favoritism). Thus if they make Kanto remakes I'll like to see GF give the bird trio Megas or maybe even Primals...I'm leaning towards Megas. I'll like for Articuno to get Snow Warning, Zapdos with Drizzle, and Moltres with Drought. Also maybe change their Flying typing to Dragon (they could do the same with their master Lugia's Mega) though perhaps that'll make them come off as Bird trio meets the Weather and Tao trios...
Also Mega Mew!
For non legends I want Mega Raichu and Mega Persian (btw they should give Meowth a baby in Gen VII to rival Pichu). Mega Raichu could be Electric/Fighting and get Motor Drive. Persian could be Dark with a Dark type version of Normalize (like Aerilate, Pixilate, Glaciate).

If they remake Crystal too then Mega Ho-oh and Mega Lugia with both getting their H.A. as their M.A.
Also Mega Celebi and Mega Beast trio along with the starters. I hope for Water/Dragon Feraligtr to make a starter Dragon trio with Mega Charizard X and Mega Sceptile. Maybe with Strong Jaws or a Dragon version of Normalize. Mega Typlosion should be Fire/Ground with a Ground version of normalize, while Mega Meganium can be Grass/Fairy with Pixilate. Or maybe all three could stay pure typed mons and get normalize versions of their respective types giving them major STAB moves to use.

Wicked3DS December 26th, 2014 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8549132)
In the original timeline (read RBY and GSC), it's obvious that Red started with a Pikachu and got the other three starters from the Cerulean, Route 24, and Vermillion events (thus, making Yellow canon). It's HGSS that screwed things up by keeping the battle the same (save for swapping out Espeon for Lapras), even though they were supposed to be sequels to FRLG, not Yellow.

But if HG/SS remakes are supposed to stay true to the orignals in some way, what exactly would you propose? Taking Red out of that spot would make HG/SS completely inaccurate remakes of G/S/C. And considering you couldn't get Espeon in Yellow, the fact that Red had one in G/S/C in the first place was completely wrong, so the whole thing is thrown off anyway.

BettyNewbie December 27th, 2014 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiicked (Post 8549189)
But if HG/SS remakes are supposed to stay true to the orignals in some way, what exactly would you propose? Taking Red out of that spot would make HG/SS completely inaccurate remakes of G/S/C.

Well, they were already being pretty inaccurate by replacing Kris with Lyra and sticking a Safari Zone near Cianwood, so I don't see any problem with changing the Mt. Silver battle. HGSS were supposed to be just as much FRLG sequels as GSC remakes, anyways.

One thing they could've (and should've) done was take advantage of Dual Slot Mode and have whoever was at the end of Mt. Silver literally be your character and team from FRLG, name and everything. People who didn't have FRLG or were playing on a DSi/3DS would fight Red's (HeartGold) or Leaf's (SoulSilver) default team:

- Togekiss
- Espeon
- Snorlax
- Articuno
- Zapdos
- Moltres

Yes, they'd have Legendaries, but these birds have lower BSTs and worse movepools than all Pseudo-Legendaries (like Lance's Dragonites), and it's supposed to be a final battle, anyways. Togekiss, of course, explicitly points back to FRLG over RBY, as it's only in the remakes that Togepi is given as a gift (from a gentleman in the Water Labyrinth).

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8549167)
As for the originals, I had a friend who let me borrow his Silver (it was very fun and made me look forward to HgSs...which after Pt I thought would never happen (after B2W2 I started to feel the same way about Hoenn remakes)).

So, you did play Silver before HGSS. Do you think that had any effect on how you perceived HGSS (which were just as much Crystal remakes as GS ones)?

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8549167)
Even with the latest remakes I still play Emerald sometimes (btw OrAs is as bad as you say FrLg, HgSs were in terms of how they treated Yellow and Crystal. For example Steven says to the player that they have to stop the 'TeamS' not the singular 'Team' even though only one is doing things while the other is aiding the player... also the Delta Episode made the games feel as if they were trying to be both R/S and Emerald remakes at the same time. I feel DP's will be the same way...).

Yeah, I know. HGSS actually handled Crystal pretty well and did a good job of integrating its story and features into Gold and Silver's--Eusine, Buena's Password, Extremespeed Dratini, and so forth. It's FRLG and ORAS that messed up their Third Versions. FRLG ignored Yellow altogether, while ORAS awkwardly tried to make Emerald the postgame. GF could've done a much better job with both.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8549167)
RBY were the only ones I didn't play...that I recall. I have a faint memory of playing something that resembled Kanto... before ever playing Firered (this would be in late 2002 to early 2003 during a trip to Mexico so before Hoenn came out in NA)I think it may have been the original Red. I didn't play it long enough to make any kind of review. Both that and FireRed I borrowed from cousins.

So, you never played the original Gen 1, then? (Or, at least, remember playing it.) It'd probably be hard to go back if you started with FireRed, but if you're interested in checking out the original games, I suggest giving Yellow a try. It's different enough from FRLG to not just feel like a limited, more outdated version (and it has *much* nicer sprites and graphics than RB).

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8549167)
It would be better. Also people seem to be tired of the bird trio appearing every Gen (except V)...now jabbing it into Pt and XY was kind of out of nowhere (well not as bad as the dozen legends appearing in OrAs. Also people tend to overlook that the Regi,Lake, and the three Unova trios have appeared in every gen since their intro. Also the Beast, Weather, and Creation trio along with the Bird Duo (though in Gen III H and L were events) has appeared in every gen after their intro too minus V too, same goes for Mewtwo but no one seems to complain about Mewtwo...shows the favoritism). Thus if they make Kanto remakes I'll like to see GF give the bird trio Megas or maybe even Primals...I'm leaning towards Megas. I'll like for Articuno to get Snow Warning, Zapdos with Drizzle, and Moltres with Drought. Also maybe change their Flying typing to Dragon (they could do the same with their master Lugia's Mega) though perhaps that'll make them come off as Bird trio meets the Weather and Tao trios...

I like the ideas for their abilities, but not the Dragon typing (save for Lugia). They don't really come off as even remotely draconic, IMO.

And, speaking of Lugia, I would actually like to see its link with the bird trio actually explored in the games. Storyline-wise, Lugia always seemed shafted compared to Ho-Oh (who got more backstory with the dog trio in Crystal).

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8549167)
For non legends I want Mega Raichu and Mega Persian (btw they should give Meowth a baby in Gen VII to rival Pichu). Mega Raichu could be Electric/Fighting and get Motor Drive. Persian could be Dark with a Dark type version of Normalize (like Aerilate, Pixilate, Glaciate).

Oh, I like both of those very much. Raichu and Persian could certainly use the boost (especially, poor Raichu, who's outclassed by its super popular pre-evolution in most things).

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8549167)
If they remake Crystal too then Mega Ho-oh and Mega Lugia with both getting their H.A. as their M.A.
Also Mega Celebi and Mega Beast trio along with the starters.I hope for Water/Dragon Feraligtr to make a starter Dragon trio with Mega Charizard X and Mega Sceptile. Maybe with Strong Jaws or a Dragon version of Normalize. Mega Typlosion should be Fire/Ground with a Ground version of normalize, while Mega Meganium can be Grass/Fairy with Pixilate.

I like those a lot, too. The Johto starters are considered to be some of the more underwhelming starters (all being pure type and with blah movepools), so they could definitely use a boost.

Wicked3DS December 27th, 2014 10:56 AM

Umm, no. If I'm playing a remake of a game I enjoyed as a child, I would want to fight the original final battle, not some rehashed team based on this theory that it should've been a sequel. When exactly did Nintendo say it was a FR/LG sequel?

TheRabbit December 27th, 2014 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiicked (Post 8549189)
But if HG/SS remakes are supposed to stay true to the orignals in some way, what exactly would you propose? Taking Red out of that spot would make HG/SS completely inaccurate remakes of G/S/C. And considering you couldn't get Espeon in Yellow, the fact that Red had one in G/S/C in the first place was completely wrong, so the whole thing is thrown off anyway.

Red has Espeon because, like I said, the Red battle in G/S/C was a reference to the adventures Red...who had Espeon.

Wicked3DS December 27th, 2014 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRabbit (Post 8549908)
Red has Espeon because, like I said, the Red battle in G/S/C was a reference to the adventures Red...who had Espeon.

You're definitely right about that, it's just the other theories that are presented here are trying to debunk that and I disagree with them. I'm pretty sure they were trying to refer to Pokémon Adventures.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire December 27th, 2014 1:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiicked (Post 8549857)
Umm, no. If I'm playing a remake of a game I enjoyed as a child, I would want to fight the original final battle, not some rehashed team based on this theory that it should've been a sequel. When exactly did Nintendo say it was a FR/LG sequel?

Yet Irc Red's team was changed anyways for HgSs compared to his GSC team.

BettyNewbie December 27th, 2014 2:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiicked (Post 8549857)
Umm, no. If I'm playing a remake of a game I enjoyed as a child, I would want to fight the original final battle, not some rehashed team based on this theory that it should've been a sequel. When exactly did Nintendo say it was a FR/LG sequel?

If you want to play the exact same game you enjoyed as a child, then you should just go hunt down your old cartridges. A good remake is supposed to change things up and not just rehash the original games with prettier graphics. This is why HGSS and ORAS were much better remakes than FRLG; they weren't afraid to add new things and reinvent the old games.

And, HGSS were supposed to be FRLG sequels, because GSC were RBY sequels. Gen 2 was a direct follow-up to the events of Gen 1 in the same way that B2W2 was a direct follow-up to the events of BW. Not only did we revisit Kanto again and see how it changed after 3 years, but there were constant references to the events of "3 years ago" throughout the games. The Team Rocket plot is literally a direct continuation of Gen 1's Team Rocket plot and the aftermath of their disbanding. How did you not get this?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRabbit (Post 8549908)
Red has Espeon because, like I said, the Red battle in G/S/C was a reference to the adventures Red...who had Espeon.

Adventures Red got an Espeon as a reference to GSC, not the other way around. That manga's even less relevant to the games than the anime with Ash; I don't think any game alluded to it until very recently with ORAS referencing Archie and Jirachi.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire December 27th, 2014 2:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiicked (Post 8549857)
Umm, no. If I'm playing a remake of a game I enjoyed as a child, I would want to fight the original final battle, not some rehashed team based on this theory that it should've been a sequel. When exactly did Nintendo say it was a FR/LG sequel?

Yet Irc Red's team was changed anyways for HgSs compared to his GSC team.
The sequel part came from GSC being referred to as sequels to RGBY so thus their remakes should keep that prequel-sequel nature in the remakes. Come to think about it with Gen V having B2W2 each gen has had a prequel-sequel game with Gen I and III having prequel (to the Johto ones), II and IV having sequel (the Johto games), and V having both.

Neko Mizu December 27th, 2014 2:57 PM

I would really love that idea. That could also introduce a new Pokemon tradition of having 3 sets of games per generation. Sure, it would make the next generations appear later than with 2 sets of games, but it would be a lot of fun to do this. I also want to see my favourite gen get remade, second gen. <3

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire December 27th, 2014 3:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neko Mizu (Post 8550165)
I would really love that idea. That could also introduce a new Pokemon tradition of having 3 sets of games per generation. Sure, it would make the next generations appear later than with 2 sets of games, but it would be a lot of fun to do this. I also want to see my favourite gen get remade, second gen. <3

You mean re-remade xD. I wouldn't mind another Johto. I hope that this time they make night darker as one of the things I liked was the surprise of trainers popping out at night in Silver (since I went from Gen III to playing Silver it was something new to have night and day...I never did think why they took it out until later.)

Neko Mizu December 27th, 2014 3:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8550183)
You mean re-remade xD. I wouldn't mind another Johto. I hope that this time they make night darker as one of the things I liked was the surprise of trainers popping out at night in Silver (since I went from Gen III to playing Silver it was something new to have night and day...I never did think why they took it out until later.)

I was going to thank you for correcting me, but I had just realized what you did there. Anyways, I would not enjoy that all too much, making the night too dark (To the point I do not know where the trainers are at. Unless you are allowed to use Flash. If you are able to use Flash, and get it early, then everyone could be happy, I guess?

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire December 27th, 2014 3:24 PM

Or maybe it could be very dark at midnight? Most players probably don't play at midnight so most probably won't be bothered by it. As for those who want it could change their 3DS clocks ^_^.

BettyNewbie December 27th, 2014 4:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8550159)
Come to think about it with Gen V having B2W2 each gen has had a prequel-sequel game with Gen I and III having prequel (to the Johto ones), II and IV having sequel (the Johto games), and V having both.

I'd definitely love to see more sequels, and see old regions revisited in games other than remakes.

Based on my idea, Gen 7 would have the Yellow/Crystal remake pair, and Gen 8 would have the Gen 4 remakes... So, how about have Gen 8's main games be a direct GSC-style sequel to ORAS? I'm no fan of Hoenn, myself, but I know a lot of its fans would like to see it reappear in a sequel game (as a postgame region) like Kanto returned in Gen 2. (Plus, bringing back Hoenn may quell the inevitable complaints about Kanto returning in Gen 7.) This sequel, of course, would take place at the same time as Gens 2 and 4, concurrent with New!Crystal and the DP remakes.

Similarly, Gen 7's main games could also be a Gen 6 prequel (also done in a similar style to GSC) that would make Kalos concurrent with ORAS and New!Yellow. Again, not a huge fan of the region, but I know a lot of people would like it.

As an aside, another pattern I've noticed with remakes is that they get remade in the Generation that's their original Generation x2:

- Gen 2 (GSC) => Gen 4 (HGSS)
- Gen 3 (RSE) => Gen 6 (ORAS)

My idea for future remakes mostly retains this pattern:

- Gen 4 (DPP) => Gen 8 (DP remakes)
- Gen 5 (BW/2) => Gen 10 (Grey/Grey 2)

Only Gen 1 (and the Crystal remake) breaks it, but even then...

- Gen 1(.5) (RBY) => Gen 3 (FRLG)
- Gen 3(.5) (FRLG) => Gen 7 (New!Yellow/New!Crystal)

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire December 27th, 2014 6:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8550304)
I'd definitely love to see more sequels, and see old regions revisited in games other than remakes.

Based on my idea, Gen 7 would have the Yellow/Crystal remake pair, and Gen 8 would have the Gen 4 remakes... So, how about have Gen 8's main games be a direct GSC-style sequel to ORAS? I'm no fan of Hoenn, myself, but I know a lot of its fans would like to see it reappear in a sequel game (as a postgame region) like Kanto returned in Gen 2. (Plus, bringing back Hoenn may quell the inevitable complaints about Kanto returning in Gen 7.) This sequel, of course, would take place at the same time as Gens 2 and 4, concurrent with New!Crystal and the DP remakes.

Similarly, Gen 7's main games could also be a Gen 6 prequel (also done in a similar style to GSC) that would make Kalos concurrent with ORAS and New!Yellow. Again, not a huge fan of the region, but I know a lot of people would like it.

As an aside, another pattern I've noticed with remakes is that they get remade in the Generation that's their original Generation x2:

- Gen 2 (GSC) => Gen 4 (HGSS)
- Gen 3 (RSE) => Gen 6 (ORAS)

My idea for future remakes mostly retains this pattern:

- Gen 4 (DPP) => Gen 8 (DP remakes)
- Gen 5 (BW/2) => Gen 10 (Grey/Grey 2)

Only Gen 1 (and the Crystal remake) breaks it, but even then...

- Gen 1(.5) (RBY) => Gen 3 (FRLG)
- Gen 3(.5) (FRLG) => Gen 7 (New!Yellow/New!Crystal)

I wouldn't mind seeing a future Hoenn but I think Hoenn as played out as Johto was/is. I think DP sequels would be good. Maybe after DP remakes. Gen 7 can be sequels to XYZ, maybe set in the British Isles or maybe Spain, the Neatherlands, or Germany. If they do Sinnoh remakes in Gen 8 I guess they could remake Yellow and Crystal then too (especially to age HgSs a bit more as thus far it's only like half as old as GSC were when they were remade) and have them be the prequel/sequel games of that Gen.


(btw it's fine if you don't like Hoenn, I have a similar attitude toward Kanto itself yet I would like it's fans to be pleased. Same with Unova...)

BettyNewbie December 27th, 2014 8:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8550419)
I wouldn't mind seeing a future Hoenn but I think Hoenn as played out as Johto was/is. I think DP sequels would be good. Maybe after DP remakes.

I don't really care if it's either Hoenn or Sinnoh; I just want to see another sequel Generation besides Gen 2. That's the main reason why Kanto has appeared more than any other region, after all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8550419)
Gen 7 can be sequels to XYZ, maybe set in the British Isles or maybe Spain, the Neatherlands, or Germany. If they do Sinnoh remakes in Gen 8 I guess they could remake Yellow and Crystal then too (especially to age HgSs a bit more as thus far it's only like half as old as GSC were when they were remade) and have them be the prequel/sequel games of that Gen.

Yellow (released 9/12/98) was less than 6 years old when FRLG (released 1/29/04) came out, FYI. (In fact, RBY and FRLG are close enough to be playable on the same handheld, even if they can't directly trade.) HGSS, on the other hand, would be 9 in 2018 (which I would put in late Gen 7 instead of Gen 8), while FRLG would be 14--Perfect time for new remakes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8550419)
(btw it's fine if you don't like Hoenn, I have a similar attitude toward Kanto itself yet I would like it's fans to be pleased. Same with Unova...)

That's how I feel. I'm very much a "Kanto, Johto, and nothing but" person, but I want fans of the other Gens to be happy, too. (Unlike certain other fans at other sites who would rather see Gen 1 skipped over for Gen 4 and permanently left behind in the GBA era because "Kanto was boring.")

Wicked3DS December 27th, 2014 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8550084)
If you want to play the exact same game you enjoyed as a child, then you should just go hunt down your old cartridges. A good remake is supposed to change things up and not just rehash the original games with prettier graphics. This is why HGSS and ORAS were much better remakes than FRLG; they weren't afraid to add new things and reinvent the old games.

And, HGSS were supposed to be FRLG sequels, because GSC were RBY sequels. Gen 2 was a direct follow-up to the events of Gen 1 in the same way that B2W2 was a direct follow-up to the events of BW. Not only did we revisit Kanto again and see how it changed after 3 years, but there were constant references to the events of "3 years ago" throughout the games. The Team Rocket plot is literally a direct continuation of Gen 1's Team Rocket plot and the aftermath of their disbanding. How did you not get this?

I still think most people would want to play against Red with his original team in a remake. This si the first I've heard any complaints about that. And also, the Team Rocket plot is a direct continuation in HG/SS...what are you trying to say?

I think you're way overthinking this. Those games are good as they are. They have enough new features and still are true to the originals, which I think giving Red a whole new team and adding the possibility of fighting Leaf instead stray way too far off course for staying true.

BettyNewbie December 28th, 2014 6:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiicked (Post 8550749)
I still think most people would want to play against Red with his original team in a remake. This si the first I've heard any complaints about that.

Well, then, HGSS already failed at that, because as others have pointed out, Red didn't even have his original team to begin with. (Last time I checked, he didn't have a Lapras in GSC.)

And, trust me, a lot of people have complained about Leaf not being in HGSS. Naturally, people who picked Leaf in FRLG don't like being told they played the games "wrong" with her being de-canonized, and the favoring of Red comes off as kind of sexist (especially in the same games that arbitrarily replaced the original female protagonist with a new one--HGSS were very unkind to female PCs).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiicked (Post 8550749)
And also, the Team Rocket plot is a direct continuation in HG/SS...what are you trying to say?

Because, you were trying to argue that they weren't sequels.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiicked (Post 8550749)
I think you're way overthinking this.

Yeah, how dare I care about storylines and continuity! I need to just button mash and focus on breeding and EV training like everyone else, because that's what these games are all about. *eyeroll*

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiicked (Post 8550749)
Those games are good as they are. They have enough new features and still are true to the originals, which I think giving Red a whole new team and adding the possibility of fighting Leaf instead stray way too far off course for staying true.

But, Lyra and the new Safari Zone don't? Consistency!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hiroshi Sotomura (Post 8550999)
He's right in some way though—if HG/SS extend off anything, it's FR/LG. We've got landmark designs taken right from it, Red's design is based off it, and some of the music takes cues from it. My qualm to the localisation is that they didn't localise Green as Green—righting a wrong from the very start. Goddamn nostalgia demands.

HG/SS strays a fair bit off the course already, too. I wouldn't complain if it were the most "true", but then, while I like the servicing of older fans, I think they need to change things around.

If we see a remake of Red/BlueGreen I'd like them to really change the storyline and features more—like what OR/AS is to R/S. FR/LG seems terrible just because they tried to stick to being a tried-and-true remake, in my opinion. The only time we get real major changes (aside from the Pokémon mechanics) is when we reach the Sevii Islands.

If you're referring to me, I'm a she. Otherwise, I agree with you.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire December 28th, 2014 9:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hiroshi Sotomura (Post 8550999)
He's right in some way though—if HG/SS extend off anything, it's FR/LG. We've got landmark designs taken right from it, Red's design is based off it, and some of the music takes cues from it. My qualm to the localisation is that they didn't localise Green as Green—righting a wrong from the very start. Goddamn nostalgia demands.

HG/SS strays a fair bit off the course already, too. I wouldn't complain if it were the most "true", but then, while I like the servicing of older fans, I think they need to change things around.

If we see a remake of Red/BlueGreen I'd like them to really change the storyline and features more—like what OR/AS is to R/S. FR/LG seems terrible just because they tried to stick to being a tried-and-true remake, in my opinion. The only time we get real major changes (aside from the Pokémon mechanics) is when we reach the Sevii Islands.

That's very much true. When we were discussing the changes they could make to the RS storyline/setting for OrAs the only example for Fr/Lg I could come up with was the interuption after the seventh gym to introduce those islands (and now that I think about it the location of where you can find Moltres). HgSs had the new routes and detour to the Safari zone. OrAs had Mega evolutions, Primals, the Lati appearing early on, and even a post game story before the usual/typical post game.

Yeah HgSs didn't have to change Kris for Lyra. I wonder, if they do remake Crystal if we'll see Kris again...since the excuse of GS had no female protag to begin with won't hold for Crystal. So in the end OrAs didn't only add all of the evolutionary relatives and their evolution methods but are the first remakes to have a female protagonist we're all familiar with and as far as we know is equal to the male counterpart in story.

blue December 28th, 2014 11:13 AM

It sort of makes sense. The next (and final) set of games for Generation VI will come as a pair which was kinda confirmed by the coding of the ORAS demo. If they take a break for 2015, which would be logical considering they released XY in 2013 and ORAS in 2014 then 2016 would be an ideal year to finish Generation VI. Not only would it be a 3 year life-span for Gen VI which seems to be the most common, it would also mark the 20th anniversary of the release of Red/Green which gives reason to why they could remake Red/Green in XY graphics. Not to mention that we got FRLG not long after the release of Ruby and Sapphire.

BettyNewbie December 28th, 2014 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8551308)
That's very much true. When we were discussing the changes they could make to the RS storyline/setting for OrAs the only example for Fr/Lg I could come up with was the interuption after the seventh gym to introduce those islands (and now that I think about it the location of where you can find Moltres). HgSs had the new routes and detour to the Safari zone. OrAs had Mega evolutions, Primals, the Lati appearing early on, and even a post game story before the usual/typical post game.

I agree 100%. A few months ago, I wrote this laundry list of things that could be implemented in a Yellow remake:

My Ideal Yellow Remake:

Quote:

1. Day/Night
2. Berry Trees
3. All of the first 251 Pokémon in the Regional Dex, plus their evos and babies from Gens 3, 4, and 6
4. Pokémon Amie
5. GB Sounds available near start of game
6. Moss Rock added to Viridian Forest and Ice Rock added to Seafoam Islands (for Leafeon and Glaceon)
7. New electromagnetic area added near Power Plant (for Magnezone)
8. Starter Pikachu gets a Light Ball around Cerulean or Vermillion (around the time it started to become obsolete in the original)
9. Rival's Eevee can now evolve into either Espeon, Umbreon, or Leafeon in addition to the original three Eeveelutions (couldn't think of a way to fit either Glaceon or Sylveon onto his team)
10. Jessie and James are a double battle and have more appearances after Silph Co.
11. Level curve is the same as Yellow, but with two major exceptions--Koga's ace is now Level 42, and Sabrina's is Level 45 (they were both Level 50 in the original, way too high for that point of the game)
12. Pikachu can now learn Surf straight from the HM
13. The VS Seeker from FRLG returns
14. The Fame Checker from FRLG also returns, but now has a reward for completing it
15. The gift Kanto Starters are all holding Mega Stones
16. The Sevii Islands return, but are expanded and fleshed out into a real region (the extra islands that were cut from FRLG would also be included)
17. The encounter with Lorelei in Icefall Cave would be a tag battle against Petrel and Proton
18. Prof. Rowan shows up in the postgame and gives you a Sinnoh Starter
19. Gym Leader and Elite Four rematches (they'll all have Megas on their rematch teams)
20. All Elite Four members appear in the postgame on certain days of the week in a Double Battle:
- Bruno and Brawly at Mt. Ember
- Agatha and either Prof. Oak or Bertha at Pokémon Tower
- Lorelei and Lance at Navel Rock (couldn't think of any other friend for Lorelei, and HGSS already did Lance and Clair; plus, I really ship Lance/Lorelei)
21. Eusine appears in Celadon City, and after you speak to him, the Legendary Dogs will start roaming Kanto
22. The following later Gen characters all have cameos: Silver, Janine, Clair, Karen, maybe Alder or Diantha (I'm not a fan of Cynthia, and she's appeared in way too many games, IMO)
23. Lugia and Ho-Oh return to Navel Rock, but are no longer event-exclusive
24. Lugia's connection to Articuno, Zapdos, and Moltres is fleshed-out
25. Mewtwo's backstory is fleshed-out
26. Either Dialga/Palkia/Giratina or Reshiram/Zekrom/Kyurem are all catchable in a postgame area (just like Groudon/Kyogre/Rayquaza in HGSS)
27. The (lame) Battle Tower near Seven Island is replaced with the Hoenn Battle Frontier (just like HGSS had the Sinnoh Battle Frontier)
28. Unselected player character appears as a secondary rival with Clefairy as their starter (like Ethan/Lyra in HGSS)
29. The following get Megas (among others)--Raichu (Electric/Fairy), the Nidoroyals (Poison/Ground), Clefable (Fairy), Vileplume (Grass/Poison), Ninetales (Fire/Ghost), Arcanine (Fire/Dragon), Machamp (Fighting), Victreebel (Grass/Poison), Golem (Rock/Ground), Rapidash (Fire/Flying), Exeggutor (Grass), Starmie (Water/Psychic), Mr. Mime (Psychic/Fairy), Jynx (Ice/Fairy), Tauros (Normal), Lapras (Water), Omastar (Rock/Water), Kabutops (Rock/Water), Dragonite (Dragon/Fairy), Crobat (Poison/Flying), Bellossom (Grass/Fairy), Azumarill (Water/Fairy), Quagsire (Water/Ground), Slowking (Water/Psychic), Miltank (Normal), Ambipom (Normal/Fighting), Mismagius (Ghost/Fairy), Weavile (Dark/Ice), Rhyperior (Ground/Rock), Togekiss (Fairy/Flying), Yanmega (Bug/Dragon), and Mamoswine (Ground/Ice)

As for the Rival's Eevee...

1. Eevee => Vaporeon (replaces Cloyster): Lose to him in Oak's Lab
2. Eevee => Jolteon (replaces Magnezone): After beating him in Oak's lab, defeat his Eevee on Route 22 with a Special attack
3. Eevee => Flareon (replaces Ninetales): After beating him in Oak's lab, either skip or lose the battle on Route 22 during the day
4. Eevee => Espeon (replaces Alakazam): After beating him in Oak's lab, either skip or lose the battle on Route 22 during the morning
5. Eevee => Umbreon (replaces Tyranitar): After beating him in Oak's lab, either skip or lose the battle on Route 22 during the night
6. Eevee => Leafeon (replaces Exeggutor): After beating him in Oak's lab, defeat his Eevee on Route 22 with a Physical attack
Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8551308)
Yeah HgSs didn't have to change Kris for Lyra. I wonder, if they do remake Crystal if we'll see Kris again...since the excuse of GS had no female protag to begin with won't hold for Crystal.

That excuse barely held water to begin with, since, last time I checked, Eusine wasn't in Gold and Silver, either. HGSS were clearly designed to be Crystal remakes just as much as Gold/Silver ones.

Plus, to add insult to injury, there's enough data to suggest that Kris originally was going to be in HGSS; there's an unused PokéGear icon in the games' data that resembles her. Why did they get rid of her?

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8551308)
So in the end OrAs didn't only add all of the evolutionary relatives and their evolution methods but are the first remakes to have a female protagonist we're all familiar with and as far as we know is equal to the male counterpart in story.

It's also worth pointing out that May was the first female PC to A) have a canonically established name, and B) appear in the games if unselected. (Two things that are also true for Lyra, the only Kanto/Johto female PC that is canon, as far as we know.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoenn (Post 8551410)
It sort of makes sense. The next (and final) set of games for Generation VI will come as a pair which was kinda confirmed by the coding of the ORAS demo. If they take a break for 2015, which would be logical considering they released XY in 2013 and ORAS in 2014 then 2016 would be an ideal year to finish Generation VI. Not only would it be a 3 year life-span for Gen VI which seems to be the most common, it would also mark the 20th anniversary of the release of Red/Green which gives reason to why they could remake Red/Green in XY graphics. Not to mention that we got FRLG not long after the release of Ruby and Sapphire.

I'd be down with that, although I'd still prefer to see Yellow (or, at least, Red and Blue) over another Red/Green pair. If they go that way, though, they should, at least, try to incorporate Yellow's story the same way HGSS incorporated Crystal's.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire December 28th, 2014 4:16 PM

What about Glaceon and Sylveon?
Maybe instead they could have the rival ask the player questions and overtime how one answers adds up to one of the eeveelutions (sort of like in a character quiz). Could be other NPC's too like Oak.
Or maybe keep the three eeveelutions how it was in yellow but give them Megas. Both Diantha and Steven have them (while Cynthia has Mega Garchomp already set for her games remakes). Maybe give Dragonite it's Mega.

I hope they resolve what happened to Agatha. Shauntel seems to have met her and Bertha as one of her dialogs references them (at least in BW. Don't recall if she bring it up before battle in B2W2 too) so maybe she's alive...

As for the release of the games...In Japan starting with Gen III RS 2002, FrLgE 2004, DP 2006, Pt 2008, HgSs were in 2009, BW 2010, B2W2 2012, XY 2013, OrAs 2014. There seems to be a tradition of a break mid gen so it's possible GF will take a break (I heard they're working on a new game but it may not be a Pokémon game so that could fill in their money train gap for 2015). Then Gen VII 2017 on a new system, Third game 2018, DP remakes 2019, Break 2020, 2021 for the quater century annivesary of the franchise they have Yellow and Crystal remakes.

It would be agonizing to wait another 7 years for another set of Kanto/Johto remakes for fans of those games/regions...trust me I know the feeling with Hoenn and Sinnoh...

BettyNewbie December 28th, 2014 4:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8551675)
What about Glaceon and Sylveon?

I'm ignoring them. They don't fill any specific niche on Blue's team that another Eeveelution (such as Vaporeon or Espeon) already fills. (And, I don't like them as much as the others.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8551675)
Maybe give Dragonite it's Mega.

This, definitely. Poor thing's now the only pre-Gen 5 Pseudo who doesn't have one, and it would be the ultimate slap in the face if the likes of Hydreigon and Goodra got them before it did.

(Plus, it feels like only further proof that Lance will always play second-fiddle to the overrated Steven and Cynthia in GF's eyes. Not only does he never get the guest appearances and promotion they get--despite being part of the franchise for 7-10 years longer--but they won't even give his ace a Mega. Yes, he still has Pokémon that can Mega Evolve, but let's be honest, who wants to see Gyarados or Aerodactyl as his Mega?)

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8551675)
I hope they resolve what happened to Agatha. Shauntel seems to have met her and Bertha as one of her dialogs references them (at least in BW. Don't recall if she bring it up before battle in B2W2 too) so maybe she's alive...

Don't forget about Lorelei, who hasn't even been referenced in any game since FRLG. I will never be satisfied with the idea of her disappearing off to some tiny island and spending the rest of her life fighting off Rocket Grunts, never finding happiness or achieving anything great. Her entire backstory should be retconned and fleshed out, IMO. I wanna see her set up to become a future Champion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8551675)
As for the release of the games...In Japan starting with Gen III RS 2002, FrLgE 2004, DP 2006, Pt 2008, HgSs were in 2009, BW 2010, B2W2 2012, XY 2013, OrAs 2014. There seems to be a tradition of a break mid gen so it's possible GF will take a break (I heard they're working on a new game but it may not be a Pokémon game so that could fill in their money train gap for 2015). Then Gen VII 2017 on a new system, Third game 2018, DP remakes 2019, Break 2020, 2021 for the quater century annivesary of the franchise they have Yellow and Crystal remakes.

It would be agonizing to wait another 7 years for another set of Kanto/Johto remakes for fans of those games/regions...trust me I know the feeling with Hoenn and Sinnoh...

Remake Gen 4 before Gen 1? No freakin' way! Why should Gen 1 have to rot away in the GBA era while the newer Diamond and Pearl get shiny new remakes?


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