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BettyNewbie February 28th, 2015 10:51 PM

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Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8637492)
Exactly, it can just be a 'cameo' instead of a direct sequel.

Which is considerably more boring. :|

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Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8637492)
Sadly Kanto's gyms in GSCHgSs were easy to defeat. I think that's one of the reasons why GF hasn't added more than 8 badges beyond GSC and their remakes and likely why the facilities popped up (sadly it seems the Facilities are being ignored , or disliked by fans according to GF so there's no need for more than a half hearted attempt, just like what they gave to making the Kanto gym leaders a challenge in HgSs. Well in general the main story tends to be easy, but difficult easy). It would still be nice to have both the facilities and another region to explore (only games where this is the case are Crystal, HeartGold, and Soul Silver) post main story. Actually the very naming of the events from getting the Starter up to defeating the Champion as the main game is indicative that there is no plot after defeating the Champion (or Ghetsis in the case of BW). It'll be nice if the story encroached into the post game. The Delta Episode sort of felt like that...and given the fact that we couldn't access the Battle resort until beating it makes it seem more like part of the main story. If GF expands on that we could see a longer story even after the league.

Ideally, the battle facilities would just be an optional side area and not the entire postgame. You need to have something for people who aren't into competitive battling and don't feel like breeding/EV-ing up a new "perfect" team, and an extension of the story in a second postgame region would be the best way to go.

RandomDSdevel March 1st, 2015 8:33 AM

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing both Johto and the result of merging the Sevii Islands and the Orange Archipelago into a true region of its own in Kanto re-remakes! 24 badges would interesting and cool if they could pull it off and get the level curve right. And the battle facilities could still be there for competitive players, so it'd be a win all around!

Cerberus87 March 1st, 2015 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8637383)
The Indigo League covers both Kanto and Johto, which means 16 Badges. Yes, you only need 8 to fight the E4, but the actual League itself is still double that.

And, Kanto returned in GSC because GSC were meant to be direct sequels to RBY, and they wouldn't have been so without Kanto.

Geez, what do you have against getting more Badges? Or, just multiple regions being in the same game? (I thought you were a fan of Gen 2...) Not everyone is interested in competitive battling (be it multiplayer or battle facility), and a more substantial postgame would be great for them.

I don't, but it's hard to cram two regions in all their glory into a cart. Graphics take a lot of space. I can see them doing it in a new remake, though, because Kanto is much smaller than Kalos.

At least in HGSS both regions were decently sized and fit into the cart with all the Kanto improvements. But you still need a bit of story for the postgame.

It's rare for a Pokémon game these days to feature only competitive battling in the postgame. Nor is it desirable. Even XY aren't exclusively competitive battling, however small the post game quest was.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire March 1st, 2015 2:04 PM

That's true, there was the Looker Episodes in XY, then in ORAS we got the Delta Episode. Actually there seems to be more story there than there was in Kanto in Gen II/IV...

BettyNewbie March 1st, 2015 2:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8638454)
That's true, there was the Looker Episodes in XY, then in ORAS we got the Delta Episode. Actually there seems to be more story there than there was in Kanto in Gen II/IV...

Yeah, a couple of short side stories, and that's it. After they're done, unless you feel like breeding/EV-ing up a team for multiplayer or the battle facility, you might as well turn it off and play another game (Pokémon or otherwise).

Cerberus87 March 1st, 2015 3:44 PM

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Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8638454)
That's true, there was the Looker Episodes in XY, then in ORAS we got the Delta Episode. Actually there seems to be more story there than there was in Kanto in Gen II/IV...

The Kanto in GSC had a different value from the Delta Episode. The idea behind it was mainly to see how everything was after three years.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire March 1st, 2015 6:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8638513)
Yeah, a couple of short side stories, and that's it. After they're done, unless you feel like breeding/EV-ing up a team for multiplayer or the battle facility, you might as well turn it off and play another game (Pokémon or otherwise).

Well it's the same thing even with an extra region, once one defeats the gyms there is little else to do (especially if Gym rematches don't return). Actually defeating Kanto in Silver and SS took me as long as the Delta Episode did in OR...

@ Cerberus That's true. I must say that it's interesting how the rural regions have never been revisted in the future (or the past). Kalos will likely get prequels though...but Kalos is both rural and urban.

BettyNewbie March 1st, 2015 7:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8638780)
Well it's the same thing even with an extra region, once one defeats the gyms there is little else to do (especially if Gym rematches don't return). Actually defeating Kanto in Silver and SS took me as long as the Delta Episode did in OR...

Well, every game eventually has to come to an end, but with an extra region you, at least, have more room for non-competitive content (like Gym Leader rematches). Minigames might also be worth looking into as postgame content.

Mega_Kris March 1st, 2015 7:31 PM

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Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8635722)
So, Gen 1 should just be left behind in the past and completely forgotten, then? Because, that's pretty much what's starting to happen. Fandom--even older fans--only care about the latest and greatest, which is why the Color/Metal and Advance Generation boards are less active than the others. If you're not into the newer games, then you don't have much of a community to turn to, anymore.

says the one who hates Firered/leafgreen for being nothing more than a remake.

I agree, Gen 1 shouldn't be forgotten. and what way to re-introduce it to fans without heavily modifying the original.

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The only reason Gen 1 (either RBY or FRLG) hasn't completely evaporated from memory is because of ROM hacks (and, more specifically, FireRed being the easiest base ever to hack, especially in comparison to the DS games). Sad that fan games are doing a better job of keeping the Gen alive than GF, but it is what it is.
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Well, that's technology for 'ya. Old games become obsolete with new handhelds, and GF has decided that remakes are the solution to that problem, for better or worse.
Which is why i suggested a Red/Blue combined with Gold/silver remake. makes perfect use of two regions.

Cerberus87 March 1st, 2015 9:13 PM

FRLG was a bit of a cheap way to complete the Pokédex, but it's not like GF said after releasing RS "hey, we need a way to complete the Pokédex... alright, let's remake Red and Blue!". I'd say the lack of classic Kanto Pokémon in RS was a sign that GF already planned before RS's release to remake Red and Blue to fill in the gaps.

Later remakes were pushed by public demand, though. The craze we saw with Hoenn in 2013, we had with Johto around the mid-2000s, which even led to the creation of the Shiny Gold hack. It remains to be seen if Sinnoh will get the same treatment, and when.

Mega_Kris March 1st, 2015 9:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8638888)
FRLG was a bit of a cheap way to complete the Pokédex, but it's not like GF said after releasing RS "hey, we need a way to complete the Pokédex... alright, let's remake Red and Blue!". I'd say the lack of classic Kanto Pokémon in RS was a sign that GF already planned before RS's release to remake Red and Blue to fill in the gaps.

I'm positive that during the creation of RSE, they intended to make it as big as Gold/Silver (having two regions). but it couldn't fit it all due to overestimating the capabilities of the GBA. so separating it was most likely necessary. looking back at GBA's line of games. i never really saw a complete SNES level game except for the ports themselves.

Quote:

Later remakes were pushed by public demand, though. The craze we saw with Hoenn in 2013, we had with Johto around the mid-2000s, which even led to the creation of the Shiny Gold hack. It remains to be seen if Sinnoh will get the same treatment, and when.
Remakes were made by demand due to FireRed LeafGreen letting fans know Remakes were an option.

But even then, no one really wanted a full Ruby/Sapphire remake. And yet, one was announced. which was more of a remake.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire March 1st, 2015 9:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiny_Unown (Post 8638903)
I'm positive that during the creation of RSE, they intended to make it as big as Gold/Silver (having two regions). but it couldn't fit it all due to overestimating the capabilities of the GBA. so separating it was most likely necessary. looking back at GBA's line of games. i never really saw a complete SNES level game except for the ports themselves.

Remakes were made by demand due to FireRed LeafGreen letting fans know Remakes were an option.

But even then, no one really wanted a full Ruby/Sapphire remake. And yet, one was announced. which was more of a remake.

That may very well be possible as there were apparently dex numbers for Gen I and II Pokemon in the Hoenn dex that were never used according to Bulbapedia. Foolishly I thought that beating the BF in Emerald was going to open access to Kanto and Johto (this is before I played Silver and knew that there was a game that could allow us to go to a past region), oh the days of noobdom.

Anyways it appears that Gf wants to isolate the regions from one another, just look at the skip in route numbers between Kanto-Johto and Hoenn, Hoenn and Sinnoh, the reset of the route numbering back to 1 for Unova, and again for Kalos. It's speculated that the reason the Sevii islands lack route numbers was that it would have to pick up where Johto left off and fool people into thinking Johto was in the game too.

Cerberus87 March 1st, 2015 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8638916)
Foolishly I thought that the beating the BF in Emerald was going to open access to Kanto and Johto (this is before I played Silver and knew that there was a game that could allow us to go to a past region), oh the days of noobdom.

Not worth the trouble, sorry. :P

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire March 1st, 2015 10:03 PM

Maybe they could make it that if we complete the regional dex we'll get access to another region.

Maybe for a Kanto re-remake we'll have the old 151 Kanto dex but at a certain point it'll get updated with all of the newest additions evolutions wise. They could make it so that Oak thinks there are only 151 but we reveal to Oak that isn't true with our dex finds.

Mega_Kris March 1st, 2015 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8638929)
Maybe they could make it that if we complete the regional dex we'll get access to another region.

Maybe for a Kanto re-remake we'll have the old 151 Kanto dex but at a certain point it'll get updated with all of the newest additions evolutions wise. They could make it so that Oak thinks there are only 151 but we reveal to Oak that isn't true with our dex finds.

That would've been good for a Red/Gold and Blue/Silver remake.

BettyNewbie March 1st, 2015 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiny_Unown (Post 8638903)
I'm positive that during the creation of RSE, they intended to make it as big as Gold/Silver (having two regions). but it couldn't fit it all due to overestimating the capabilities of the GBA. so separating it was most likely necessary. looking back at GBA's line of games. i never really saw a complete SNES level game except for the ports themselves.

There's actually some merit to this. Hidden in RS's data are unused remixes from Gen 2, which suggests that Johto may have been planned as a secondary postgame region at one time. The fact that May/Brendan are stated in the games to come from Johto may be an artifact from these early plans.

There's also an unused string of text referring to the Time Capsule in RS's data, which might also suggest that GF was toying around with backwards compatibility with RBY/GSC early in development.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8638916)
Anyways it appears that Gf wants to isolate the regions from one another, just look at the skip in route numbers between Kanto-Johto and Hoenn, Hoenn and Sinnoh, the reset of the route numbering back to 1 for Unova, and again for Kalos. It's speculated that the reason the Sevii islands lack route numbers was that it would have to pick up where Johto left off and fool people into thinking Johto was in the game too.

Yeah, GF seems to be happy with every new region being an isolated "mini-reboot" with few-to-no connections to the previous ones. Continuity is hard.

Conveniently, this makes things easier for the anime, since sending Ash back to old regions to collect old badges is obviously out of the question. (Hence, the reason why they created a brand new League for Johto instead of just sending Ash back to the Indigo Plateau.)

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire March 2nd, 2015 9:22 AM

Maybe after they remake Sinnoh (and Kanto?) they'll make a game with all 4 Japanese regions (or make it part of a Yellow remake.) Anyways they should at least include the Original Saga regions in a Yellow remake with Sevii and/or Orange popping up at some point.

Cerberus87 March 3rd, 2015 4:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8638952)
There's actually some merit to this. Hidden in RS's data are unused remixes from Gen 2, which suggests that Johto may have been planned as a secondary postgame region at one time. The fact that May/Brendan are stated in the games to come from Johto may be an artifact from these early plans.

There's also an unused string of text referring to the Time Capsule in RS's data, which might also suggest that GF was toying around with backwards compatibility with RBY/GSC early in development.

Usually this kind of stuff is leftovers from earlier games or something they put in to test things, but it's interesting nonetheless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8638952)
Yeah, GF seems to be happy with every new region being an isolated "mini-reboot" with few-to-no connections to the previous ones. Continuity is hard.

Conveniently, this makes things easier for the anime, since sending Ash back to old regions to collect old badges is obviously out of the question. (Hence, the reason why they created a brand new League for Johto instead of just sending Ash back to the Indigo Plateau.)

I think the first four are supposed to be pretty close to each other, but Unova and Kalos are stated to be far away from the others.

BettyNewbie March 3rd, 2015 5:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8641060)
Usually this kind of stuff is leftovers from earlier games or something they put in to test things, but it's interesting nonetheless.

These can't be leftovers since RS were built up from scratch. The Time Capsule text is especially odd, since RS were particularly infamous for their lack of backwards compatibility. As I said, it makes me wonder if GF was toying around with compatibility early in development, like through a one-way transfer (possibly involving the GameCube) and just scrapped it because it would be too difficult.

Any plans to include Johto as a postgame region may have been a similar story. It's possible that GF wanted to include Johto as a means of obtaining the "missing" Pokémon without trading back with RBY/GSC, but then ran out of space after making Hoenn so large. As I said, I always found it odd how May/Brendan were stated in the games to have moved to Hoenn from Johto, yet Johto, itself, was never revisited in the games. (Even FRLG didn't directly reference Johto, despite literally taking place next door to it.) Could this be an artifact from these scrapped plans?

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire March 3rd, 2015 7:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8641115)
These can't be leftovers since RS were built up from scratch. The Time Capsule text is especially odd, since RS were particularly infamous for their lack of backwards compatibility. As I said, it makes me wonder if GF was toying around with compatibility early in development, like through a one-way transfer (possibly involving the GameCube) and just scrapped it because it would be too difficult.

Any plans to include Johto as a postgame region may have been a similar story. It's possible that GF wanted to include Johto as a means of obtaining the "missing" Pokémon without trading back with RBY/GSC, but then ran out of space after making Hoenn so large. As I said, I always found it odd how May/Brendan were stated in the games to have moved to Hoenn from Johto, yet Johto, itself, was never revisited in the games. (Even FRLG didn't directly reference Johto, despite literally taking place next door to it.) Could this be an artifact from these scrapped plans?

The Johto music could also had been planned for an eventual Kanto remake with Johto in it but was dropped, and instead the music was used for the Sevii islands.

The scary thing is that this Gen almost ended up like Gen III had the Pokebank not worked (GF said they were trying different stuff to try to enable transfer from Gen V to VI prior to confirming Pokebank). Actually my guess is that the mass amount of Pokemon in the Kalos dexes was an attempt of avoiding another Hoenn should Pokebank fail, while ORAS having all of the legends is likely an extension of this. It does make one wonder if GF might have made plans to remake Kanto-Unova too.

BettyNewbie March 3rd, 2015 8:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8641220)
The Johto music could also had been planned for an eventual Kanto remake with Johto in it but was dropped, and instead the music was used for the Sevii islands.

Couldn't be, because the Johto song in RS is Route 38's music, while FRLG only used the Violet/Azalea/Lake of Rage themes. And, there's zero evidence that Johto was ever planned for FRLG; as I said, the region isn't even mentioned by name in the entire game, despite literally taking place next door to it.

FRLG acted as if Johto never existed, which felt like a slap in the face to anyone who had played and enjoyed the Gen 2 games just a few years earlier. The games really were made for newcomers instead of veterans. :sideways:

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8641220)
The scary thing is that this Gen almost ended up like Gen III had the Pokebank not worked (GF said they were trying different stuff to try to enable transfer from Gen V to VI prior to confirming Pokebank). Actually my guess is that the mass amount of Pokemon in the Kalos dexes was an attempt of avoiding another Hoenn should Pokebank fail, while ORAS having all of the legends is likely an extension of this. It does make one wonder if GF might have made plans to remake Kanto-Unova too.

That's what I've always thought, too. Of course, for the purposes of official tournaments and Pokédex completion, Blue Pentagon restrictions ended up causing a similar effect, anyways. Before ORAS, many Pokémon were still unavailable in the Gen 6 games, and while you could, at least, breed most of them to get a Blue Pentagon, there was no doing that with Legendaries (hence the reason why ORAS crammed as many of them into one game). Now, there are only 5 Pokémon left that are still unavailable in Gen 6, and they're all event Legendaries that don't count towards Dex completion and are banned in official tournaments, anyways--Mew, Manaphy, Arceus, Meloetta, and Genesect.

Gligar March 3rd, 2015 10:12 PM

Tbh, I'd like to have a new region more than a red and blue re-make. We already have ORAS, which is a re-make, so I don't think a re-make after a re-make will be fun.

Think about it, when X and Y came out, there was so much hype, the hype stayed like for months and months! But for ORAS, after a couple of months or so, people got less hyped about it.

I'm just saying I would LOVE a new region with ne pokemon, cuz new regions are just naturally more fun than re-makes!

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire March 3rd, 2015 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8641329)
Couldn't be, because the Johto song in RS is Route 38's music, while FRLG only used the Violet/Azalea/Lake of Rage themes. And, there's zero evidence that Johto was ever planned for FRLG; as I said, the region isn't even mentioned by name in the entire game, despite literally taking place next door to it.

FRLG acted as if Johto never existed, which felt like a slap in the face to anyone who had played and enjoyed the Gen 2 games just a few years earlier. The games really were made for newcomers instead of veterans. :sideways:



That's what I've always thought, too. Of course, for the purposes of official tournaments and Pokédex completion, Blue Pentagon restrictions ended up causing a similar effect, anyways. Before ORAS, many Pokémon were still unavailable in the Gen 6 games, and while you could, at least, breed most of them to get a Blue Pentagon, there was no doing that with Legendaries (hence the reason why ORAS crammed as many of them into one game). Now, there are only 5 Pokémon left that are still unavailable in Gen 6, and they're all event Legendaries that don't count towards Dex completion and are banned in official tournaments, anyways--Mew, Manaphy, Arceus, Meloetta, and Genesect.

I think a Kanto remake with Mew having a post game plot similar to Deoxys (but not necessary as world destroying) and being captured afterwards can take care of one of those five. Also the new movie is said to have an event Arceus (Japan only) so the only ones left are going to be Mew, Manaphy, Meloetta, and Genesect (well for Japan as I don't believe those of us outside of Japan will get an Arceus event anytime soon, plus its been ages since we last had a Shaymin event...then there's Jirachi, Victini, and Keldeo.)
Actually Kanto is the only region to not have a legend (,or even a mascot outside of Pikachu) (that we know as of right now) in the newest movie (Gen II: Lugia, Gen III: Weather Trio, Gen IV: Creation Trio, Regigigas, Gen V: Tao Trio, Gen VI: Hoopa)...but then again we did see Mewtwo in the last movie of Gen V's anime saga.

BettyNewbie March 4th, 2015 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mimimahboul (Post 8641409)
Tbh, I'd like to have a new region more than a red and blue re-make. We already have ORAS, which is a re-make, so I don't think a re-make after a re-make will be fun.

Think about it, when X and Y came out, there was so much hype, the hype stayed like for months and months! But for ORAS, after a couple of months or so, people got less hyped about it.

I'm just saying I would LOVE a new region with ne pokemon, cuz new regions are just naturally more fun than re-makes!

I see you're a younger fan. :P

I've moved past the point of caring about new regions, myself. I still haven't fully warmed up to Hoenn, Sinnoh, and Unova, and Kalos doesn't incite anything but a shrug from me. It's hard for new regions to stick or even feel special anymore when GF is constantly hitting the reset button with every new Gen and re-recycling the same basic formula they've been using since RS ad nauseum. When so many previous regions and characters have stories that are still incomplete, it's hard to give a damn about the new ones.

It would be a dream come true if Gen 7's main games were not another micro-reboot, but instead, a direct sequel to a previous Generation. (You know, like what Gen 2 was to Gen 1?) I'm more than ready to see older regions and characters in games that aren't remakes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8641441)
I think a Kanto remake with Mew having a post game plot similar to Deoxys (but not necessary as world destroying) and being captured afterwards can take care of one of those five. Also the new movie is said to have an event Arceus (Japan only) so the only ones left are going to be Mew, Manaphy, Meloetta, and Genesect (well for Japan as I don't believe those of us outside of Japan will get an Arceus event anytime soon, plus its been ages since we last had a Shaymin event...then there's Jirachi, Victini, and Keldeo.)

Yeah, Japan gets all of the goods for themselves. :rolleyes2: As I said, luckily, none of these Pokémon are actually required for Dex completion (because that would be cruel), and they're all banned from official tournaments, anyways, but right now, it's impossible to get a Blue Pentagon on them without cheating.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire March 4th, 2015 3:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8641884)
I see you're a younger fan. :P

I've moved past the point of caring about new regions, myself. I still haven't fully warmed up to Hoenn, Sinnoh, and Unova, and Kalos doesn't incite anything but a shrug from me. It's hard for new regions to stick or even feel special anymore when GF is constantly hitting the reset button with every new Gen and re-recycling the same basic formula they've been using since RS ad nauseum. When so many previous regions and characters have stories that are still incomplete, it's hard to give a damn about the new ones.

It would be a dream come true if Gen 7's main games were not another micro-reboot, but instead, a direct sequel to a previous Generation. (You know, like what Gen 2 was to Gen 1?) I'm more than ready to see older regions and characters in games that aren't remakes.



Yeah, Japan gets all of the goods for themselves. :rolleyes2: As I said, luckily, none of these Pokémon are actually required for Dex completion (because that would be cruel), and they're all banned from official tournaments, anyways, but right now, it's impossible to get a Blue Pentagon on them without cheating.

I think that Gen VII is our best bet for that right now. In all likelihood it'll be a Kalos sequel (the fact that the next Kalos games may be prequels leaves space for a sequel to XY in the form of Gen VII). Of course it may get boring to see Kalos again...if it gets two prequels this Gen it'll have 4 games, as much as Japanese Kanto, and then likely Gen VII will have more versions than the Johto games had (in three). Some would say Hoenn but there's not much to do in Hoenn so it'll be as boring as Kanto in Gen II/IV was (unless if it has the Frontier...) Maybe it could be Unova sequels in a nearby region and we'll get the Original dragon in the end.

Funny that we're talking about sequels in this thread as there is a decent chuck that would rather see sequels rather than remakes of old games...


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