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Primal Reversion Discussion & Speculation Thread
Staff Note: This thread is now, as of June 27th, the official hub for discussing primal reversions. Please use this thread for all your primal reversion discussion and speculation! Do you think other Pokemon will be able to undergo this phenomenon? How does it relate to mega evolution?
-- Look at the new box art for OR/AS. http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSm8kenNedN7le1aDAmtmBRVp1bpo6P88ooWv6GWcfbwlJ-4efk By now you must have noticed that the designs for Groudon and Kyogre are different. You can appreciate the difference in the original box art or anyother artwork for these pokemon. http://assets24.pokemon.com/assets/cms/img/video-games/rubysapphire/ruby_sapphire_boxart.png They still have their shape but the markings on their bodies are more pronounced, run along their bodies differently and depict the alpha and omega symbols. The markings are yellow rather than red and blue mirroring each other and also have a little of their own colors in their markings. Why the change? Do you think that is just stylized artwork? Or is there more to these versions that meets the eye? I seems that Groudon and Kyogre will get new formes in game judging by how they look. It would make little sense to make them like that for the artwork and leave them untouched in the game. That would be like having a pretty glass of perfume with no perfume in it. What are your thoughts? Stylized artworks for getting cool vibes or do those depict new formes? Also notice that their markings are predominantly yellow like a certain member of their trio. Update: They have been revealed! The new forms of Groudon and Kyogre are said to be mega evolutions for both of them. They are refered to as Atom Groudon and Atom Kyogre. They are said to be the result of atomic regression. Here is a picture: http://www.serebii.net/corocoro7142th.jpg Update 2: Serebii appears to be in the middle of a translation. They changed the names to Primal/Prehistoric/Primeval. The legends have been regressed to their Primal forms. The process is known as ancient devolution. Content might change as they continue to translate. Serebii list Groudon and Kyogre as "Prehistoric Pokemon" rather than Mega Evolutions in the index of their OR/AS page. They undergo a process known as "Ancient Devolutions" which is noted to be a similar but seperate process than mega evolution. Update 3: Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre have been confirmed to be the english names for the two new forms of Groudon and Kyogre by Nintendo Digital Event at E3 according to serebii.net. Groudon's new form is Ground/Fire while Kyogre retains it's pure Water type. They are currently listed under Primal Pokemon in the index of serebii's OR/AS page. Here is a link to serebii.net's OR/AS Primal Pokemon list: http://www.serebii.net/omegarubyalphasapphire/primal.shtml |
THIS IS THE THREAD I WAS LOOKING FOR.
This just got posted on Serebii a while ago. Quote:
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Well there is this " The Japanese arm of The Pokémon Company sent out an e-mail to all Daisuki Club members which ends up pointing out the differences to Groudon & Kyogre on the box-art, stating that they're showcasing "never before seen Pokémon", the same terminology they used for Black & White Kyurem, as well as Mega Mewtwo Y upon their reveal, indicating that they are more than stylised artwork of the Pokémon." Source: Serebii
So all indication is that they're something more. The new forms (whether Megas or Otherwise) will probably mean a longer or slightly shifted to the end story. |
I guess I was wrong with them just being exaggerated drawings! I don't really mind new forms, but if they don't end up being Megas then I hope they have a purpose instead of being new forms for the sake of it like almost every other legendary.
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Considering that Mega Evolution happens when a trainer has a good bond with their Pokemon, I'm thinking these will be forms. |
"stating that they're showcasing 'never before seen Pokémon'"
...But we have seen Groudon and Kyogre before. New forms =/= completely new Pokémon. Now, I'm not saying that they can't be getting new forms or mega evolutions, but the wording here that TPC is using..... Quote:
But I have to agree, more intense story is needed. |
Perhaps they are Megas, but the bond thing will be played with...perhaps they'll first appear as corrupted Megas (think Dark Lugia) but after we calmed them they drop the stones and leave. After that we can pick up the stone(s) and battle the mascot of our game.
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I keep thinking they're overexaggerated art like one person before me, to be honest. They look too similar to be Megas to the originals. Although I suppose they COULD be Formes, especially since I just now noticed that they do indeed have Alpha and Omega symbols on them. Either way, I look forward to the berth of information that will slowly be revealed up to the release.
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Mega Ampharos wasn't all that different so this could be in the same vein.
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Highly doubt they're Megas. Probably some new form all together. They look sweet though.
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Mega Groudon and mega Kyogre ?!?!
Hey everybody ! recently pokemon has released the brand new game pokemon omega and alpha which is coming out this november :D You can not imagine how much i am happy right now ! But in the pictures in the boxes groudon and kyogre have a different look... I was surprised and tough it may be a mega evolution ... But I am not sure and I would love to see what you think about it so comment down below :D
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They will probably change forms using the orbs... maybe Rayquaza will also
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I'd say it will be revealed that the orbs are actually their Mega forms, and the reason they wake up is because the orbs send them Mega.
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I have a feeling it'll be orbs as well now that I'm thinking.
Orbs could make them glow cool like that. I hope they glow in the game like on the box art. |
A Form Change seems more likely, except how likely are new forms when Megas exists?
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I hope they're not mega evolutions. It wouldn't make sense given the official timeline and I was never a fan of starters and legendaries getting mega evolutions to begin with.
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Part of me wonders if maybe Groudon and Kyogre are just gonna have pretty blinky lights now like with Zekrom and Reshiram....dammit I can't find any animated sprites so I can show what I mean
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I really want them to be mega evolutions. Game freak can surely patch X and Y with new mega evolutions to keep support, right?
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That said, I'm leaning more towards new forms, simply because mega evolutions would be too boring. Don't get me wrong, I really love the concept of mega evolutions, but I prefer the idea of alternate forms much more. |
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I think these are just possessed Groudon and Kyogre, like in the Anime. Their veins are just glowing, that's it. They don't look any different to me, so Mega Evolutions are a no-go to me. Perhaps Archie/Maxie now succesfully posses these Pokémon?
I also found these rumours on 4chan which say something about 'Alpha form' and 'Omega form'. http://boards.4chan.org/vp/thread/19124302 |
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Besides, megas are fun. |
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We have to assume that ORAS wil be compatible with X/Y, which has mega evos. They'd have to include megas in ORAS simply for that. What if I'm playing on my Y and are battling someone playing Omega Ruby, and I try to mega evolve my Lucario but ORAS doesn't have mega evos in it? That's a bit of a problem. |
It's possible that the Mega stones could've come from the energy radiating from Mt. Pyre and Origin Cave which fill the void for Yvetal and Xerneas.
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FRLG are remakes of Gen I, where there was only 151 pokémon, yet you can actually catch 386. HGSS had many things added compared to the original, Many cameos, new areas and such. BEsides, in Origins, which apperently takes place during RG, and they have megas They'd be no problem with ORAS having them too. According to the timeline I've followed RS and FR are at the same time, or similar times. So, it's not illogical for them to have megas. If that makes sense. Also: If they are megas, i guarantee that Red Orb and Blue Orb aare in fact Groudonite, and Kryogrite. |
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If you look closely at Kyogres fin you can see the Mega evolution symbol. Atleast that's what I seen
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I think it'll be unfair if they give Groudon and Kyogre formes instead of Megas considering back in Gen IV formes existed and they didn't give any to Lugia and Ho-oh despite people wanting some formes for those two.
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Also it would make no sense for megas not to be in game. I will almost guarantee that mega Lati twins will be released some time after alpha and omega. I'm also thinking that the PSs will stay. For them not toinclude megas makes little sense(unless you follow.time.line). Wouldn't surprise me if the include a second region to. Maybe one where they.do get mega stones. (Would be perfect way to explain megas in the games and would be fun).
Trust me megas will be in.the.game. But they could.just be new forms. Plus if there were not megas it would not be comparable with x and y. Compatible* |
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Do we have something a little more....official....than a tweet from someone?
TBH Platina, you're in the minority of people who seriously care about Pokémon's timeline. The timeline is hardly important to the overall franchise. It'd be different if Pokémon was a really story-driven series, but (unfortunately) its not, so the continuity of the timeline doesn't impact things much. It's probably just going to be like the whole thing with Steel and Dark types only first being discovered in G/S/C, only to have them retcon that in FR/LG even though Steel and Dark never existed in the originals. It'll be the same with mega evolutions, and it really wouldn't make the games any worse if they did include it. |
Unfortunately that is the only source for the official timeline that I have seen.
While it's true that I'm in the minority, I can still hope that Gamefreak doesn't contradict themselves by bringing mega evolutions into the game. |
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Edit @ 15:38: The Japanese arm of The Pokémon Company sent out an e-mail to all Daisuki Club members which ends up pointing out the differences to Groudon & Kyogre on the box-art, stating that they're showcasing "never before seen Pokémon", the same terminology they used for Black & White Kyurem, as well as Mega Mewtwo Y upon their reveal, indicating that they are more than stylised artwork of the Pokémon. We'll bring more on this as it comes - Serebii.
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Ontopic: I doubt they're formes, it just feels like GF is focusing on Megas right now with formes being something of the last two generations (mascot wise, as Gen III was the first to have real formes). |
...I'm praying it isn't either... I really don't want it to be a form change or mega evolutions... Besides, since it's a remake it really wouldn't make much sense. I've had enough with them.
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What's not to say it;s a long line of ancestory. Despite that, i still don't why people don't want it in ORAS, the whole "timeline" reason is pathetic in my eyes. |
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Please note that recently is a vague term as 5 years can be considered recent in terms of discoveries. It's possible that while Mega Evolution was discovered in Kalos that it was also uncovered in other regions since.
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Also, you're going to have to explain why the timeline reasoning is a good one. |
Since there isn't really a "good" enough deciphered official timeline, it never find it a good enough reason.
Mega was only recently discovered in Kalos, each reason has there own secrets, Hoenn could of mastered it, and just kept it secret. |
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Like, they could easily be Mega stones, Groudonite and Kryogreite. The Mega forms of Kryogre and Groudon could be what cause the obscene and dramatic weather effects reeking havoc on the east side of Hoenn. It makes a more justified solution than, they're awoken and cause havoc, but as soon as you catch them, their weather effects are useless. |
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And it should be obvious why the timeline reasonins is a good one in that introducing Mega Evolutions to the remakes breaks canon. |
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As I mentioned Origins has Mega's in Kanto. It's based on Red and Green, and Gen 1 took place the same time as Generation 3, so in retrospect, it can have mega evolution. |
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And now you're going to have to explain why breaking the canon (which Game Freak has done before) is a bad thing in Pokémon. It's a bad thing in other games, but I don't see how its so terrible in Pokémon. |
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And the things that they've retconned could fall under the category of canon-breaking. Steel was originally stated to be a new type to be found in Johto region, yet it appears in FR/LG, which takes place before G/S/C/HG/SS. Besides, you never know what Game Freak is gonna do, cuz of dat #GameFreakLogic. |
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While that's one way of looking at it, another way is that FRLG and HGSS replace RGBY and GSC respectively. In which case said retcon isn't breaking canon. |
Ah yes, Platina is right. Bulbapedia to confirm:
Mega Evolution (Japanese: メガシンカ Mega Evolution) is a new transformation affecting Pokémon, found only in the Kalos region. Mega Evolutions are identified by having "Mega" in front of their name. |
It would be more interesting if they were new forms, but either way, the artwork is absolutely stunning, and just looking at it gets me extremely excited to play. Their yellow markings probably have something to do with Rayquaza's similar markings. That could mean that Rayquaza will have some more relevance in this version of Hoenn.
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I noticed Kyogre on my first look at the covers, I'm not sure if I'd prefer them being Megas or forms. Will be interesting to see, as long as this doesn't dominate the story too much. :O
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I wonder if the new forms (whatever they are) will have an extra story to it like how in HGSS they added the Bells and the Dance thing to the story.
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Assuming he was a real person with real scientific authority he would be saying that with the assumption that you know he is speaking of what is known as far as current science in his world has knowledge of. When new scientific information is discovered, new journals, textbooks, and of course Wikipedia are updated to reflect it. None of this matters because it is a video game franchise that isn't very realistic or story-driven in the first place. |
I'll stop calling people wrong when they stop posting stuff contradicted by the games and those who make them.
And no, canon does matter. Yeah there's no overarching story but keeping the timeline straight and adhering to canon is important. |
Canon is only as important as the creators make it to be. They could not care for it at all like how some world leaders don't care about their nations' constitutions (speaking in general).
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Wrong. There is a canon timeline which I linked to and everyone chose to ignore. And if they show up in later generations that is different because then we know that Mega Evolution will have spread somehow.
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Bulbpedia isn't a speculative site. It only takes in canon information, official stuff, to avoid being an invalid source. So until they officially announce that the game will feature mega evolutions (which they probably will, considering they've already had many mega evolutions from Hoenn) they're going to say it's only found in Kalos. As of now, we don't even know whether the game will feature more than two Pokémon.
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Here's an Idea, if you have such a big problem with it then don't play them or just lsave the thread if you have.an issue with it. Stop calling people wrong on somethings, I'm pretty sure that I read that that timeline.stuff wasn't 100% confirmed. Remebwe in orogin(Tho non cannon) No body except the guy who gave red the mega stones knew.what they were. Maybe only one.person in Hoenn knows about Mega Evolution. Also considering that there is Mega Latios and Latias I'm pretty sure rhey won't be released unroll these games are released. Sure you can keep using.your timeline.argument, but I don't think that thet wilp follow time line. Like I said If you have a problem with it leave it alone. Geez let people believe what they want. |
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Because they look too simular to their regular forms, I'm hoping these are not straight up Megas.
If they are Megas, then Red Orb, Blue Orb in the story should be their Mega Stones. They were not recognized as such 12 years ago, but this time they are discovered as such. What Ability should each Mega Weather Mon get. Their Weather Ability would trigger when they switch in, so their Mega Ability could focus on pure power. Maybe Adaptability for Kyogre? Imagine a Drizzle Boosted, Adaptability Boosted Hydro-Pump. -edit- (Pokemon "Canon" has been retconed 5 times. Every time they add new monsters. According to Prof. Oak, their are only 150 pokemon :15:) |
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Pokemanz be weird, Bro. |
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I do wonder what the story beind Mewtwo and Mew is...I know the creator in real life added Mew at the last moment...yet the other developers didn't find it odd that Mewtwo's name was Mewtwo...they should've wonder why 'two'? Ontopic: It's possible that Mega stone exist but those in Kalos didn't know about them. |
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Maybe these formes were the ones that actually created the world as the original Kyogre and Groudon were kind of slow...perhaps the region will actually show signs of flooding and everything will be full of suspense...
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So, he could not know there's megas outside of Kalos. |
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And including the legendaries as Megas would definitely spice up the story, and make Team Aqua and Magma seem more powerful and threatening for being able to awaken and possibly even control them for some moments. Quote:
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As fitting as I think Ground/Fire would be, I personally do not want Groudon to have such a huge weakness to Kyogre's Water-type. Quote:
Adding Megas does not mess with the series continuity, because ORAS is going to essentially replace RSE in the continuity. And the only reason why Sycamore says that Megas are only found in Kalos is because up until XY, they were only found in Kalos. Mega Evolution is a major new feature that is used in competitive play. Unless every game from now on is going to be set in Kalos (no, please!) they have to include Mega Evolution outside of Kalos eventually. Now is as good a time as ever to start. Lots of gen 3 Pokémon got Mega Evolutions and I'm sure we'll see at least a few more (starters, please). I have nothing against formes, but why make the "new" Kyogre and Groudon formes when Megas are fresh off the press? It already works very well with the fact that they're awakened by orbs (the orbs that "awaken their true power," similar to Mega Stones already, so hopefully their new abilities would be actual permanent weather, exclusive only to them). |
Yeah, that could be possible as well. Or perhaps it could also be a simple form change like how Giratina reacts to the Griseous Orb. It could make things a lot less complicated.
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Yep, especially since 'Key' Items are supposed to 'Unlock' things. Besides, there isn't any Oak saying - "This isn't the time to use that!"
We can just hope Professor Birch is that lenient. |
Omega Groudon and Alpha Kyogre is a neat idea! I'm pretty sure there is some sort of mystery behind these boxarts which I'm sure will be divulged into when playing the games, perhaps this will be the additional storyline?
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What if they take the DNA splicer route and combine all three legendaries into a huge weather Pokemon?
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If Megas are only found in Kalos region, then perhaps they could use X and Y to transfer over Mega stones?
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Just because one professor says it. People can be wrong, professor Oak believed he had discovered all 151 Pokémon. But then found out there's 100 more. |
Professor Oak not knowing about other Pokemon is different because there weren't any other games at the time. There are other games now and if there were Mega Evolutions outside of Kalos you would expect Professor Sycamore to know about it since the Professors do tend to exchange information as evidenced by Professor Oak visiting Professor Elm and Rowan.
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To me, it looks like they're getting the Rayquaza treatment. I'm not sure if this has been stated anywhere before, but if you look at their designs; they resemble that of Raquaza's lovely golden tattoos.
http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/thumb/e/e4/384Rayquaza.png/250px-384Rayquaza.pngI imagine this has something to do with how they're going to tie in Rayquaza to the story (since they're undoubtedly not making an Emerald remake). The way the Pokémon were announced suggests that it something similar to that of how Kyurem worked in BW2. So we could easily be seeing the reincarnation of the DNA Splicers (god I hope not), or there could be some sort of form that Kyogre/Groudon take when they interact with Rayquaza in some way. However, based on the designs, I'm convinced that this is how OR&AS are integrating Rayquaza, and the elements of Emerald's story into the games. As well as bringing these new forms in to spice up the original storyline. |
They also talked about Mewtwo Y the way they're talking about these now...so they could still be Megas.
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I doubt its a fusion.Its been done already so the impact wouldn't be as great as it was in Black2/White2. Besides, Groudon, Kyogre, and Rayquaza are complete Pokemon already. Kyurem is an incomplete Pokemon and the fusion is to make it more whole (and the Tao Trio did start off as one Pokemon, and I'm pretty sure thats not the case with the Weather Trio).
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I think Rayquaza if it has a Mega or a forme will gain Groudon and Kyogre's red and blue lines (with it transitioning like the lights in the Pokeathalon.
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