The PokéCommunity Forums

The PokéCommunity Forums (https://www.pokecommunity.com/index.php)
-   Previous Generations (https://www.pokecommunity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=200)
-   -   6th Gen Primal Reversion Discussion & Speculation Thread (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=325811)

Leaf Magics June 10th, 2014 2:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avant Garde (Post 8293774)
What if they were introduced with new abilities that cancel out their typings? Or atleast make them inverted. I mean we see Inverse Battles possible in XY, maybe this is the time to really expand this?

I actually suggested something similar to what you say, at least for Primal Groudon.

Evaporating Aura: Damage from Water attacks is reduced in half.

My reasoning was that Primal Groudon's heat could be so intense that it would quickly evaporate any water near it. And I think it makes sense, since its normal form already had the power to potentially evaporate the oceans with Drought. I also suggested that the vapor which would result from this Ability could have some positive effect, like clearing Groudon's stat reductions, or healing any status problems its teammates may have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liberal Army (Post 8294015)
That means that Aerodactyl actually should be retyped to Rock/Dragon, right?

Do you mean if it regresses? It could be. Other people suggest removing the Rock typing from most Fossil Pokémon if they devolved, which I also find reasonable.

Pepperton June 10th, 2014 2:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leaf Magics (Post 8294820)
Do you mean if it regresses? It could be. Other people suggest removing the Rock typing from most Fossil Pokémon if they devolved, which I also find reasonable.

If we're looking at Groudon's retyping, it's hard to tell what they'll do with other devolutions, if they have any more. As I said earlier, I doubt they will, but if some are released, losing their Rock type would make sense, probably for something like Dragon, Bug, or something along those lines, to represent ancient living things from the real world..

L0RD G3NGAR June 10th, 2014 3:04 PM

Sorry if this is off topic and hard to read. But I want people to see this. Apparently there will be a Emerald remake. And An Ancient Ryquaza. Apparently The emerald remake is going to be called Delta Emerald. This was apparently stated on a trade mark list a little bit ago.

Ancient Rayquaza, the reason I believe this will happen was another trade mark list, and all high priority Pokemon(Including Kyogre and Groudon) got megas, besides Jynx and Rayquaza, Plusle,and minimum.The latter 3 seem likely, but Rayquaza will likely be an Anchient Devolution(This one I've seen, while the Delta Emerald a friend told me he seen so it might not be legit)

Sorry for the messy post.


It is offtopic if this thread is only about Kyogre and groundons Devolutions. So sorry. Please move to appropriate area

Leaf Magics June 10th, 2014 4:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepperton (Post 8294854)
If we're looking at Groudon's retyping, it's hard to tell what they'll do with other devolutions, if they have any more. As I said earlier, I doubt they will, but if some are released, losing their Rock type would make sense, probably for something like Dragon, Bug, or something along those lines, to represent ancient living things from the real world..

Just to clarify, I was talking about Fossil Devolution, something separate from Primal Reversion. It was something I proposed because I also thought that Primal Reversion would probably be exclusive to the legendary mascots (and looking at those screenshots you posted, it seems I was right about them using unique symbols).

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire June 10th, 2014 4:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepperton (Post 8294808)
http://www.serebii.net/omegarubyalphasapphire/15.jpg http://www.serebii.net/omegarubyalphasapphire/21.jpg

Based on these screenshots, I think it's safe to assume that the only Pokemon getting a devolution form will be Groudon, Kyogre, and possibly Rayquaza. Instead of being a general symbol like Mega evolutions had in their status box, the sphere is customized and has Kyogre/Groudon's main colors. That's an indicator of this being an exclusive form, at least to me.

Maybe they have a sign for non-special Devolutions, like a brown stone with no sign.

L0RD G3NGAR June 10th, 2014 4:34 PM

Primal Kyogre gets Steam eruption
Primal Groudon gets Thousand arrows

These are apparently signature moves to Volcanion and Zygarde. But its possible that they are not and that during the Form change a certain move turns into these.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire June 10th, 2014 6:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tao Dragon (Post 8295007)
DeltaEmerald is a possibility and more so now in these times where gamefreak has decided to break their patterns. I've been hearing from a lot of people that back when FireRed and LeafGreen were trade marked there was also another trademark for WaterBlue and it was never released. So we've been going with that OR/AS will have Emerald elements like HeartGold and SoulSilver had elements from Crystal. Wether they will release DeltaEmerald or not is up to their decision. Judging from how they been doing things lately I don't think they will have the same attitude towards things they trade mark as they did before since they can do many things now that they couldn't do in the past due to their technology. Maybe last time they had time restrains who knows.

If Rayquaza's Primal form does not appear in OR/AS it might mean that DeltaEmerald might happen, if Rayquaza does not have a Primal form in the upcoming games and they skip to Gen 7 then that would not feel right.

They seem to be hiding Sky Pillar and the Battle Tower/Frontier island. While the Sky Pillar and the island itself were in RS they are proably hiding something in those areas having to do with Emerald elements being added in. Perhaps Sky Pillar has a brand new design that involves Ancient devolution (hey maybe you'll need to go there to Mega Evolve them, after all Rayquaza's spot isn't very connected to the legend of the weather trio despite being it's home). The Battle Frontier is probably being saved as a surprise for those who didn't play the originals. Or perhaps they decided to add new facilities to them, or maybe they simply don't want to show off the redesigns (even though they'll be very small on that map to make out much...).
Rayquaza is seen as their Master, so it's home having a connection to Mega Evolution is possible. After all we don't really know much about the tower's history...who created it, and why?

Nah June 10th, 2014 8:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamebot (Post 8295005)
Primal Kyogre gets Steam eruption
Primal Groudon gets Thousand arrows

These are apparently signature moves to Volcanion and Zygarde. But its possible that they are not and that during the Form change a certain move turns into these.

Do you have a link for this?

Also, Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre's Abilities are supposedly new/enhanced versions of Drizzle/Drought or something.

L0RD G3NGAR June 10th, 2014 8:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Salt&PepperDiner (Post 8295336)
Do you have a link for this?

Also, Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre's Abilities are supposedly new/enhanced versions of Drizzle/Drought or something.



No, sorry this is just me predicting lol. But it would make sense.

No info on there new abilities have been released, It's just what people want to see happen. Just like I want them two learn those moves.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire June 10th, 2014 8:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamebot (Post 8295343)
No, sorry this is just me predicting lol. But it would make sense.

No info on there new abilities have been released, It's just what people want to see happen. Just like I want them two learn those moves.

There's been several rumors flying around so one must be careful. It wouldn't surprise me though if they did get abilities that were the same as their normal ones used to be prior to this generation. At least they should get an extra 3 turns or so.

Y2A_Alkis June 10th, 2014 9:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamebot (Post 8295343)
No, sorry this is just me predicting lol. But it would make sense.

No info on there new abilities have been released, It's just what people want to see happen. Just like I want them two learn those moves.

How on the world would it make sense for Kyogre to learn Steam Eruption? Steam -> Heat, Fire. That's nothing Kyogre stands for.
And for Groudon, Thousand Arrows would make a bit more sense than the above (Ground / Rock), but it still is unlikely.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire June 10th, 2014 9:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Y2A_146 (Post 8295399)
How on the world would it make sense for Kyogre to learn Steam Eruption? Steam -> Heat, Fire. That's nothing Kyogre stands for.
And for Groudon, Thousand Arrows would make a bit more sense than the above (Ground / Rock), but it still is unlikely.

Well it does make sense if you look towards underwater trenches and underwater volcanoes as the explaination. irc one of the Pokedex entries say that Kyogre was created by the pressure of the sea...though that contradicts that it created the sea...oh but now that I think about it they usually say they "expanded" the sea and land (well Groudon did).

Edit: apparently it's not in it's dex entries, but I do recall hearing about it somewhere, maybe in game...

Pepperton June 11th, 2014 8:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Y2A_146 (Post 8295399)
How on the world would it make sense for Kyogre to learn Steam Eruption? Steam -> Heat, Fire. That's nothing Kyogre stands for.
And for Groudon, Thousand Arrows would make a bit more sense than the above (Ground / Rock), but it still is unlikely.

Actually, Primal Groudon is Ground/Fire. c:

Honestly, I'm leaning towards what seems to be the most logical explanation of trademarking Delta Emerald, and that's to give Nintendo the right to take action against hacks and fakes of such a game. They did this before, with Pokemon Water Blue around the times of FRLG, and Pokemon Grey after BW. Doesn't mean Rayquaza won't get a devolution, but if it's not in ORAS, I don't know that there's another game it'll be in.

Rivvon June 11th, 2014 8:06 AM

So I'm really not liking the type change on Groudon, so I'm still holding out for its "updated ability" to essentially be Drought + Levitate for Water, or even Water Absorb, lol! During a drought, the land needs water to be revitalized, so it actually makes sense...but depending on how strong Groudon's heat is, it could just evaporate the water before it reaches Groudon...otherwise, an attack like Bubble spells doom for it, ha ha!

And before anyone says it would be OP, just remember: it will still be weak to Ground-Type attacks; and Primal Groudon's Attack is being raised, not Special Attack, so the only attack it has to really deal with Kyogre (SolarBeam) still won't hit very hard (it actually learns NO Physical Fire attacks, which is a shame in and of itself........well, you can Tutor it Fire Punch B2W2...).

Kyogre could get an updated Drizzle that makes Fire attacks do 0* damage, since the rain is so strong it can put out any fire. Kyogre would still be much stronger than Groudon with these sorts of abilities, so I don't think anyone would be upset by them. That's my idea, anyways!

Y2A_Alkis June 11th, 2014 8:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepperton (Post 8295877)
Actually, Primal Groudon is Ground/Fire. c:

I know (I even said so in my earlier post). That isn't what I meant. I meant, the correlation between a Ground-Type (Groudon) and a Rock-Attack (Thousand Arrows) is somewhat better than the of Water (Kyogre) and Fire (Steam Eruption), hence the abbreviation "(Ground / Rock)".
Maybe I should've written it as "Ground <-> Rock" ;P

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire June 11th, 2014 8:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rivvon (Post 8295888)
So I'm really not liking the type change on Groudon, so I'm still holding out for its "updated ability" to essentially be Drought + Levitate for Water, or even Water Absorb, lol! During a drought, the land needs water to be revitalized, so it actually makes sense...but depending on how strong Groudon's heat is, it could just evaporate the water before it reaches Groudon...otherwise, an attack like Bubble spells doom for it, ha ha!

And before anyone says it would be OP, just remember: it will still be weak to Ground-Type attacks; and Primal Groudon's Attack is being raised, not Special Attack, so the only attack it has to really deal with Kyogre (SolarBeam) still won't hit very hard (it actually learns NO Physical Fire attacks, which is a shame in and of itself........well, you can Tutor it Fire Punch B2W2...).

Kyogre could get an updated Drizzle that makes Fire attacks do 0* damage, since the rain is so strong it can put out any fire. Kyogre would still be much stronger than Groudon with these sorts of abilities, so I don't think anyone would be upset by them. That's my idea, anyways!

I'm not sure if they'll do that. Some regard Sharpedo and Camerupt as counterparts, yet Camerupt is still 4x weak against Sharpedo. Interestingly those two I mentioned are used by the leaders of the evil teams, so for all these years Archie's ace was 4x strong against Maxie's ace. So the legends having a similar dynamic is fitting of their evil teams.

Pepperton June 11th, 2014 8:22 AM

I could see them doing some very minor things to Groudon's ability if they actually want to decrease the huge advantage Kyogre has over it, but nothing that makes him totally immune to Water type moves. At the most, it could make Water moves hit for neutral damage, while Kyogre gets an ability that lowers the power of Ground type moves.

Rivvon June 11th, 2014 8:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepperton (Post 8295918)
I could see them doing some very minor things to Groudon's ability if they actually want to decrease the huge advantage Kyogre has over it, but nothing that makes him totally immune to Water type moves. At the most, it could make Water moves hit for neutral damage, while Kyogre gets an ability that lowers the power of Ground type moves.

But then Kyogre would resist Ground, whereas Groudon would be neutral to (and not resisting) Water. Maybe Kyogre could negate its Grass weakness? I can't see how rain would weaken Ground-Type attacks, nor Grass, but at least then each Ability would neutralize one of their weaknesses--and Grass can be seen as connected to land and continents.

Granted, Kyogre gaining a Ground resistance doesn't actually help it all that much, so in a way it's fair too, as Groudon still gets helped by its Ability, so I'd take something along these lines, too!

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire June 11th, 2014 9:16 AM

At most Groudon will still 2x weak against water even if it were given an ability to weaken water moves. Besides Drought already weakens water moves, so if it's Primal self has an ability that further weakens water damage such as Solid Rock, or a new ability it'll be able to survive.

Pepperton June 11th, 2014 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rivvon (Post 8295961)
Granted, Kyogre gaining a Ground resistance doesn't actually help it all that much, so in a way it's fair too, as Groudon still gets helped by its Ability, so I'd take something along these lines, too!

That's more or less what they'd be trying to go for with this move. By giving Kyogre a Ground resistance, it doesn't actually help or hurt him too much, but it mirrors Groudon's adjustment, so it seems fair and equal, while in reality, it's just an attempt to help Groudon seem up to par with the master of the ocean. We'll have to see what they do! o:

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire June 11th, 2014 4:05 PM

Maybe they'll give Groudon Sturdy so it'll have time to Solar Beam Kyogre. Or if they give it Solid Rock it'll only take 3x instead of 4x damage to water. (and 1 1/2 to Ground).

Leaf Magics June 11th, 2014 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8296571)
Maybe they'll give Groudon Sturdy so it'll have time to Solar Beam Kyogre. Or if they give it Solid Rock it'll only take 3x instead of 4x damage to water. (and 1 1/2 to Ground).

Hmm, if not an Evaporating Aura, an upgraded solid rock would also be nice. It could be something like

Tectonic Shield: Greatly reduces damage from supereffective attacks. Or it could double as a regular Solid Rock and Sturdy.

A geology theme for this Ability, fitting in my opinion, since Groudon is the Continent Pokémon, and its skin could be as tectonic plates drifting over its molten interior.

Y2A_Alkis June 12th, 2014 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8296571)
Maybe they'll give Groudon Sturdy so it'll have time to Solar Beam Kyogre. Or if they give it Solid Rock it'll only take 3x instead of 4x damage to water. (and 1 1/2 to Ground).

Why would it need Sturdy? "Normal" Groudon's Drought still produces sunny weather on switch in so Solar Beam doesn't need to charge. Or am I wrong?
The only case I could think of where this doesn't work is when Kyogre (or another pokémon with Drizzle) enters after Groudon itself.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire June 12th, 2014 8:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Y2A_146 (Post 8297119)
Why would it need Sturdy? "Normal" Groudon's Drought still produces sunny weather on switch in so Solar Beam doesn't need to charge. Or am I wrong?
The only case I could think of where this doesn't work is when Kyogre (or another pokémon with Drizzle) enters after Groudon itself.

I know, but Groudon is slower than Kyogre irc, if that's still the case for their Ancient selves then Kyogre will be able to knock it out faster with a Hydro Pump before it'll be able to attack.

Pepperton June 12th, 2014 8:37 AM

According to Serebii's updated Primal Evolution page, Kyogre gets a Special Attack boost when devolving, and Groudon receives an attack boost. Was predictable enough, considering their move pools. Do you guys think due to his type change, Groudon will get some Fire moves in his arsenal?

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire June 12th, 2014 8:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepperton (Post 8297540)
According to Serebii's updated Primal Evolution page, Kyogre gets a Special Attack boost when devolving, and Groudon receives an attack boost. Was predictable enough, considering their move pools. Do you guys think due to his type change, Groudon will get some Fire moves in his arsenal?

You mean MORE Fire moves? It has some of the strongest like Fire Blast and Eruption but those are special moves. So it could use Flare Blitz so it'll have a physical fire move to take advantage of it's high attack.

Pepperton June 12th, 2014 9:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8297542)
You mean MORE Fire moves? It has some of the strongest like Fire Blast and Eruption but those are special moves. So it could use Flare Blitz so it'll have a physical fire move to take advantage of it's high attack.

That's what I was referring to, haha. Kind of depressing when he gets a boost in Attack but can't utilize his new STAB typing because of a deficiency in physical Fire moves. Not sure, they might even create an all-new move for Primal Groudon specifically, with a huge BP but a significant drawback, similar to Flare Blitz.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire June 12th, 2014 9:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepperton (Post 8297574)
That's what I was referring to, haha. Kind of depressing when he gets a boost in Attack but can't utilize his new STAB typing because of a deficiency in physical Fire moves. Not sure, they might even create an all-new move for Primal Groudon specifically, with a huge BP but a significant drawback, similar to Flare Blitz.

Maybe it'll get a fire version of Earthquake with no drawback? It could be called Magma Flow.
Kyogre could get the same with a water version of Earthquake like Tsunami.

Leaf Magics June 12th, 2014 1:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Y2A_146 (Post 8297119)
Why would it need Sturdy? "Normal" Groudon's Drought still produces sunny weather on switch in so Solar Beam doesn't need to charge. Or am I wrong?
The only case I could think of where this doesn't work is when Kyogre (or another pokémon with Drizzle) enters after Groudon itself.

I've read that their Abilities could be upgraded when they Reverse. Since the sunlight that Drought summons can be removed by other Pokémon, maybe the upgraded Ability will give Groudon all the benefits of strong sunlight regardless of the current weather. Kyogre's Ability could be identical, but instead give all the benefits of rain to Kyogre, again regardless of current weather.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire June 12th, 2014 1:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leaf Magics (Post 8297884)
I've read that their Abilities could be upgraded when they Reverse. Since the sunlight that Drought summons can be removed by other Pokémon, maybe the upgraded Ability will give Groudon all the benefits of strong sunlight regardless of the current weather. Kyogre's Ability could be identical, but instead give all the benefits of rain to Kyogre, again regardless of current weather.

I wonder if they'll cancel each other out if they did that. Or will Rayquaza be the only one able to cancel out those abilities if they're made. You know they almost sound like the Auras of Xerneas and Yvetal...except with a weather bent. So I'll like to see my idea of them getting Aura abilites come true :3

antemortem June 12th, 2014 3:08 PM

Having Rayquaza's Air Lock be the only thing that could null their weather would be cool, in-game and competitively in the Uber tier. Or something more than "Air Lock," I guess, if that/Cloud Nine from regular Pokemon wouldn't be enough to put a stop to the permanent weather.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire June 12th, 2014 4:31 PM

I was looking at the official site just now in the mascots page, and saw this under Primal Groudon (image 4/9): "Spears of rock wrapped in magma stab out at the target! What move is this?!" Under Primal Kyogre (same image number) it says "What move is this?! The pillars of water that have been unleashed are assaulting the target!" That practically confirm that they'll get signature moves that have not been seen before! Finally my precious Weather Trio will have the signature moves they so deserve.

Oh I also found this nice tidbit on the top of Primal Groudon's part "Groudon has long been the heaviest of all known Pokémon. With its Primal Reversion, it smashes that record to pieces!"
For Primal Kyogre it's "When Kyogre undergoes Primal Reversion, it becomes Primal Kyogre, and the length of its body more than doubles!" Damn those things are massive! Actually that may be an understatement. Here's the link to the site if you don't have it: http://www.pokemonrubysapphire.com/en-us/pokemon/legendary-pokemon/primal-groudon-and-primal-kyogre

Oryx June 12th, 2014 4:35 PM

It's cute when they do little things like that. Like, I don't think anyone would care how long Kyogre is, but it's cute that they do!

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire June 12th, 2014 4:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oryx (Post 8298197)
It's cute when they do little things like that. Like, I don't think anyone would care how long Kyogre is, but it's cute that they do!

Yeah, seeing how body length doesn't affect any moves like weight does. I guess it's to talk about it since they mentioned Primal Groudon's weight, so it's to be fair :) Oh btw it's 32'01 in height, making it larger than Rayquaza even... I'm staring to wonder how long Primal Rayquaza was (well will be).

I think they should give Primal Groudon Heat Crash. After all it could use a physical fire move...massive over one ton thing lands on you...bones crack...one hit K.O.

Also they hinted at a connection between Primal Reversion (it's official English name) and Mega Evolution. From what they've said about Primal Reversion the one connection there is is that they both draw energy from the natural world. (Honestly I'm becoming more certain that Zygarde is the one behind Mega Evolution...or at least one of the forces.)

L0RD G3NGAR June 12th, 2014 5:07 PM

I wonder how Groudon and Kyogre lost there primal forms in the first place.

fenyx4 June 12th, 2014 6:07 PM

YESS, finally, after all of this "Atomic Regression" and Ancient Devolution" inconsistency/variable translating throughout the past week, we finally have an official name for the process (Primal Reversion)! I really like the name (and of course, anything with the -sion ending is practically cool by default! :P). As for the transformations themselves, I was really hoping that the English localizers would opt for the terms "Primeval Groudon/Kyogre" over "Primal Groudon/Kyogre", but whatever...I'll probably keep saying "Primeval" regardless. XD

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8298193)
I was looking at the official site just now in the mascots page, and saw this under Primal Groudon (image 4/9): "Spears of rock wrapped in magma stab out at the target! What move is this?!" Under Primal Kyogre (same image number) it says "What move is this?! The pillars of water that have been unleashed are assaulting the target!" That practically confirm that they'll get signature moves that have not been seen before! Finally my precious Weather Trio will have the signature moves they so deserve.

Oh I also found this nice tidbit on the top of Primal Groudon's part "Groudon has long been the heaviest of all known Pokémon. With its Primal Reversion, it smashes that record to pieces!"
For Primal Kyogre it's "When Kyogre undergoes Primal Reversion, it becomes Primal Kyogre, and the length of its body more than doubles!" Damn those things are massive! Actually that may be an understatement. Here's the link to the site if you don't have it: http://www.pokemonrubysapphire.com/en-us/pokemon/legendary-pokemon/primal-groudon-and-primal-kyogre

I hope Groudon gets some more physical Fire and Grass moves to use, though... I can't wait to see their potential signature moves; I'm surprised that they're receiving some so soon (I underestimated the Nintendo 3DS's patching ability, apparently; I can't wait to see how it's implemented..).

Also, they could at least let Groudon's Primally-Reverted form get to 1000 kilograms; 999.7 kilograms being 0.3 units away from a solid multiple of 10 just bothers me. XD

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8298211)
Also they hinted at a connection between Primal Reversion (it's official English name) and Mega Evolution. From what they've said about Primal Reversion the one connection there is is that they both draw energy from the natural world. (Honestly I'm becoming more certain that Zygarde is the one behind Mega Evolution...or at least one of the forces.)

Hmm; well, I wonder how they'll expand on that link..

Bobbylicious June 12th, 2014 6:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamebot (Post 8298229)
I wonder how Groudon and Kyogre lost there primal forms in the first place.

Probably by using their power to create land/sea or whatever they did

L0RD G3NGAR June 12th, 2014 6:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobdapeach (Post 8298290)
Probably by using their power to create land/sea or whatever they did

Possibly, or they were more powerful than Arceus, so he nerfed them. XD. Jk

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire June 12th, 2014 7:30 PM

I read that in order to stop the raging beasts the ancient people created the orbs after the legends went to sleep. I think it may be in RSE. If so then the orbs are probably the manifestation of the Power that was taken from them. It'll explain why the beast react to them. On the official site it said they wanted more power for themselves so they clashed. Perhaps that's why they reacted to the opposite colored orb in R/S, they wanted that power. It also explains why having the orbs in HGSS summons them, it's probably similar to how the opposite Lati attacked in HGSS in order to get the Soul Dew. In other words they want their power back, and that of the legendary too...

Iceshadow3317 June 12th, 2014 7:59 PM

I think the orbs and the Soul Dew may be the mega stones for these pokemon. It makes sense, at least to me. And regardless, if they change during battle, I will still consider them Megas even though the are different.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire June 12th, 2014 8:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman3317 (Post 8298397)
I think the orbs and the Soul Dew may be the mega stones for these pokemon. It makes sense, at least to me. And regardless, if they change during battle, I will still consider them Megas even though the are different.

The animation was also similar, except it was red and blue instead of black (anyone else noticed that Megas in Hoenn have a black, instead of the white colored animation from XY?). Also perhaps Maxie and Archie's mega items will be used on them to "Primal Reversion" them.
I do wonder if it's the orbs if they'll get rid of Magma/Aqua returning the orb scene and apoligizing to the eldery couple at Mt. Pyre.

Y2A_Alkis June 12th, 2014 9:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamebot (Post 8298229)
I wonder how Groudon and Kyogre lost there primal forms in the first place.

My guess is, after their legendary battle in their respective primal forms, they fell asleep (like various dex entries say), but after being reawakened prematurely with the red/blue orbs they haven't gathered their normal strength yet, i.e. they had to sleep way longer to recover all of it.
Now with the mega stones they get this strength back, although only for the duration of a battle.

antemortem June 12th, 2014 9:44 PM

Maybe they'll transform while holding it, like Giratina and the Griseous Orb. So the entire time they're holding the item, they'll be in their reverted forme. The fact it's their natural energy being tapped into makes only lasting one battle after manually being called to transform (meaning they would revert and could be battled with outside of this form in another battle like regular Mega Evolution) is an inconsistent concept to me.

Leaf Magics June 12th, 2014 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8298375)
I read that in order to stop the raging beasts the ancient people created the orbs after the legends went to sleep. I think it may be in RSE. If so then the orbs are probably the manifestation of the Power that was taken from them. It'll explain why the beast react to them. On the official site it said they wanted more power for themselves so they clashed. Perhaps that's why they reacted to the opposite colored orb in R/S, they wanted that power. It also explains why having the orbs in HGSS summons them, it's probably similar to how the opposite Lati attacked in HGSS in order to get the Soul Dew. In other words they want their power back, and that of the legendary too...

I like this. There are many things to consider.

At least in Emerald, the legend does not mention where the Orbs came from. If they were created by the ancient people, I think they would have to be containers for their power, rather than manifestations of it.

In Ruby and Sapphire, I remember that both Orbs do something to the legendary Pokémon. One of them (the one the version's team steals) awakens it, and the other does something else. Remember that we obtain the Orb that our version's team doesn't steal and then it shines when we approach the legendary Pokémon; it is after that happens that it battles us. I don't remember (if it is stated) what our Orb does to it.

And who knows, in Emerald the Orbs may have become inert after Team Aqua and Magma used them. After Rayquaza stops Groudon and Kyogre's fight, the legend told at Mt. Pyre changes to mention that Rayquaza stopped the battle, but the Orbs are no longer mentioned. Also, they are not required to battle Groudon or Kyogre when we find them later in their caves. It may be that the Orbs only contained the power that Groudon and Kyogre needed to reawaken, and if so, their Primal Reversion may have to be triggered by some other object.

The official site mentions that they got their Primal forms by absorbing nature's energy, and that in the time when they first transformed, the world was overflowing with that energy. Maybe in the present day nature's energy is not as strong, and what they need to achieve Primal Reversion is something that helps them gather enough of nature's energy from around them to temporarily activate it.

Salzorrah June 12th, 2014 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamebot (Post 8298229)
I wonder how Groudon and Kyogre lost there primal forms in the first place.

Darwinian Evolution. As time passed, they got weaker, but still be considered Legendary. Kinda like Magikarp being the strongest Pokemon then Darwinian Evolution happened, it is weak af now.

L0RD G3NGAR June 13th, 2014 5:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avant Garde (Post 8298596)
Darwinian Evolution. As time passed, they got weaker, but still be considered Legendary. Kinda like Magikarp being the strongest Pokemon then Darwinian Evolution happened, it is weak af now.


Yes, but even tho things get weaker, they tend to be smarter or can do things they couldn't before. I'm sure there is something else that contributed

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire June 13th, 2014 9:15 AM

I think it's a combination of time and their power being drained/locked by the ancient people. After all the ancients of Hoenn did managed to lock up Regigigas which has power near the level of modern Groudon and Kyogre. Hey Regigigas should get a Primal Reversion too since it seems rusted...

Well Groudon lost it's 4x weakness against Kyogre... other than that they lost more than they could've gained...

Pepperton June 13th, 2014 11:21 AM

From the official ORAS website, it's stated that both Primal Groudon and Kyogre receive boosts to their abilities. Currently, the new forms have them listed as '???' but the website says to look out for further details regarding the hidden power of the Primal forms. Exciting stuff! :] What do you guys think these new abilities will entail?

Leaf Magics June 13th, 2014 1:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepperton (Post 8299308)
From the official ORAS website, it's stated that both Primal Groudon and Kyogre receive boosts to their abilities. Currently, the new forms have them listed as '???' but the website says to look out for further details regarding the hidden power of the Primal forms. Exciting stuff! :] What do you guys think these new abilities will entail?

Well I already said it, but:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leaf Magics (Post 8297884)
I've read that their Abilities could be upgraded when they Reverse. Since the sunlight that Drought summons can be removed by other Pokémon, maybe the upgraded Ability will give Groudon all the benefits of strong sunlight regardless of the current weather. Kyogre's Ability could be identical, but instead give all the benefits of rain to Kyogre, again regardless of current weather.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8299162)
I think it's a combination of time and their power being drained/locked by the ancient people. After all the ancients of Hoenn did managed to lock up Regigigas which has power near the level of modern Groudon and Kyogre. Hey Regigigas should get a Primal Reversion too since it seems rusted...

Well Groudon lost it's 4x weakness against Kyogre... other than that they lost more than they could've gained...

So, do you think it could it be like I said? Maybe my previous post was a bit unfocused. In summary, perhaps the ancients locked Groudon and Kyogre's "waking" power inside the Orbs, which put them into their sleep. Then over time nature's energy weakened, and now, after they reawaken by recovering their "waking" power from the Orbs, they would need some object to help them concentrate the less abundant natural energy into them to Primal Reverse temporarily.

And I forgot to mention this in my previous post, but Rayquaza possibly forced Groudon and Kyogre to stop fighting various times during early history. I think each time Rayquaza stopped them, they may have lost their Primal forms temporarily. It would have been shortly after one of these occasions that the ancients managed to send Groudon and Kyogre into a slumber by sealing their remaining power in the Orbs.

Iceshadow3317 June 13th, 2014 3:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antemortem (Post 8298511)
Maybe they'll transform while holding it, like Giratina and the Griseous Orb. So the entire time they're holding the item, they'll be in their reverted forme. The fact it's their natural energy being tapped into makes only lasting one battle after manually being called to transform (meaning they would revert and could be battled with outside of this form in another battle like regular Mega Evolution) is an inconsistent concept to me.

If I am not mistaking, one of the videos showed them transforming during the battle. Much like Megas. Serebii also said Primal Reversion acts as Megas.

antemortem June 13th, 2014 3:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman3317 (Post 8299664)
If I am not mistaking, one of the videos showed them transforming during the battle. Much like Megas. Serebii also said Primal Reversion acts as Megas.

Serebii might have misinterpreted the final press release because it says verbatim

Quote:

The power within Primal Reversion is still being discovered, as well as what connection may lie between Primal Reversion and Mega Evolution.
"Connection between" infers that Primal Reversion and Mega Evolution are related but are not the same thing and therefore have differing distinctions.

SnowpointQuincy June 13th, 2014 3:22 PM

The ONLY real question about "what is a Primal form" Is THIS:

MUST GROUDON HOLD AN ITEM TO CHANGE???

Megas can't hold items, which is sometimes undesirable. If Primal Forms don't use hold items, then they could hold Choice Items, or Berries.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire June 13th, 2014 4:27 PM

I think they'll need to hold items, like Groudite and Kyogrite (which will likely be a Ruby and Sapphire form of the orbs with their special signs) in order to call upon their lost power. I wonder if perhaps the reason nature's power (in the world as a whole) weakened has something to do with Zygarde and it seeming weakened... I feel this will tie back in with the conclusion of the Gen VI saga.

Altairis June 13th, 2014 5:53 PM

I strongly suspect that the Orbs will unlock the Primal Devolutions. The Orbs were strong enough to wake the legendaries up when they were in the same vicinity, imagine what power could be unlocked if the legendaries were actually holding the Orbs.

Also, if held items are required, this brings up another point: how will Primal Devolutions going to be involved in the storyline if they have to hold an item to transform? Will Maxie/Archie catch it, will the legends steal the Orbs, or will you be required to use one of the legends yourself?

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire June 13th, 2014 7:25 PM

I think that Maxie/Archie will proably give it to the legend at one point, but then the legend will proceed to escape. It'll then activate their weather ability and make it sunny/rain.
Maxie/Archie will probably try to regain control by transforming it, but it'll backfire, thus causing more chaos. At least that's one likely scenerio. It's also possible that the legend could attack the evil team leader and retake it. Once they regain their orb they'll come after the player to get the other orb (someone hide the third orb aka the Jade orb safely or it's all over if the 10 year old fails...)

Salzorrah June 13th, 2014 11:24 PM

I'm actually kind of convinced that the Red Orb and Blue Orb will be the primal item used to devolve them. I mean we could have Groudonite and Kyogrite but it seems to be kind of reserved to Mega Evolutions imo.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire June 14th, 2014 12:34 AM

I think the orbs will change into something else. Like how the Enigma stone was revealed to be the Soul Dew. Maybe they'll be called Omegite and Alphite for them. Rayquaza can have Deltite.

Pepperton June 14th, 2014 6:19 AM

It's certainly something Game Freak hasn't disclosed yet, but I think they'll end up being stones separate from the Mega stone category. Possibly the orbs, or even some new evolving stone that's specific to Primal Reversion, but I doubt there'll be any Groudonite or Kyogrite. The symbol in this screenshot might be a hint towards what they're going to do, but it also may have no relevance at all.

Leaf Magics June 14th, 2014 2:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8299774)
I wonder if perhaps the reason nature's power (in the world as a whole) weakened has something to do with Zygarde and it seeming weakened... I feel this will tie back in with the conclusion of the Gen VI saga.

Those game's stories may come together to make the point that nature is something we should not play with and something that we should strive to protect. At least the original RSE brought up the first part. Zygarde's game(s) may emphasize the second part.

Anyway, the one problem I see with the Primal Reversion items being the Orbs is that, if they were created with the purpose of stopping Groudon and Kyogre from fighting by absorbing and sealing their power within them (at least, it seems that is what they do in the legend), shouldn't they do exactly that if we exposed the Pokémon to them?

Another thing I haven't brought up is that the two Orbs are supposed to remain together. Maybe these games could expand on that, explain why they must remain together, and what happens if they are separated. Perhaps the reason they woke the legendary Pokémon was that they were stolen and taken away from each other.

Rengoku June 14th, 2014 2:30 PM

I feel that the Team leaders would be trying to control the 2 so hard that the Blue and Red Orbs shatters and turns into another new Orbs, which in turns Primal Devolution the 2s.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire June 14th, 2014 3:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leaf Magics (Post 8301023)
Those game's stories may come together to make the point that nature is something we should not play with and something that we should strive to protect. At least the original RSE brought up the first part. Zygarde's game(s) may emphasize the second part.

Anyway, the one problem I see with the Primal Reversion items being the Orbs is that, if they were created with the purpose of stopping Groudon and Kyogre from fighting by absorbing and sealing their power within them (at least, it seems that is what they do in the legend), shouldn't they do exactly that if we exposed the Pokémon to them?

Another thing I haven't brought up is that the two Orbs are supposed to remain together. Maybe these games could expand on that, explain why they must remain together, and what happens if they are separated. Perhaps the reason they woke the legendary Pokémon was that they were stolen and taken away from each other.

I think that the orbs being together is suppose to symbolize the unity of land, sea (and sky if they add the Jade orb into the third part of the shrine like thing on the top of Mt. Pyre).

I think that while something else will be involved rather than regular Mega stones the process will turn out to be quite similar, which will be why GF says there's a connection between Primal Reversion and Mega Evolution on the official site.

antemortem June 15th, 2014 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rei Shingetsu (Post 8301028)
I feel that the Team leaders would be trying to control the 2 so hard that the Blue and Red Orbs shatters and turns into another new Orbs, which in turns Primal Devolution the 2s.

My way of thinking, though a little more along the lines of less "breaking" and more the orbs also tap into a hidden energy and are the same items physically but still bring out that Primal change in Groudon and Kyogre. Not sure if that explains it well, but I don't think the orbs will change appearance or anything.

Salzorrah June 15th, 2014 5:27 AM

So the English translation of Ancient Devolution is better! Tbh, I prefer Primal Reversion than the Japanese one.

I looked closely at the primal reversions of Kyogre and Groudon and see that the indicator usually used by the Megas are different, with Kyogre having a blue alpha on it while Groudon having a red omega on it.

I don't know if this is an indicator that the primal reversions are reserved only to Kyogre and Groudon but I really hope that isn't the case.

Btw off topic but 1000th post :)

Skystrike June 15th, 2014 6:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avant Garde (Post 8301915)
I don't know if this is an indicator that the primal reversions are reserved only to Kyogre and Groudon but I really hope that isn't the case.

Have to disagree with you here. Giving such an exclusive thing to Groudon and Kyogre and then giving it to some common Pokémon kind of undermines the exclusivity of Primal Reversion...

Though, I could see it on Dialga.

Rengoku June 15th, 2014 6:53 AM

I hope it's exclusive to the Weather Trio; They better leave Dialga alone.

Hikamaru June 15th, 2014 7:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avant Garde (Post 8301915)
So the English translation of Ancient Devolution is better! Tbh, I prefer Primal Reversion than the Japanese one.

I looked closely at the primal reversions of Kyogre and Groudon and see that the indicator usually used by the Megas are different, with Kyogre having a blue alpha on it while Groudon having a red omega on it.

I don't know if this is an indicator that the primal reversions are reserved only to Kyogre and Groudon but I really hope that isn't the case.

Btw off topic but 1000th post :)

Yeah I saw those little icons in screenshots of Primal Groudon & Kyogre, and yeah it definitely shows they aren't your average Mega which normally have the usual Mega symbol instead. Also, when Kyogre and Groudon transform they have a unique animation that while it looks similar to the Mega transforming animation, it encases Kyogre and Groudon in a blue and red gem respectively before the Primal form emerges, as opposed to a rock for the usual Megas.

But yeah I do agree that these Primal Reversions should only be for Kyogre and Groudon.

Monte Blanc June 15th, 2014 7:45 AM

Primal Reversion may be reserved for the pantheon of Legendary Pokemon:

Mew, Lugia, Ho-Oh, Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza, Dialga, Palkia, Giratina (Maybe), Regigigas, Arceus, Reshiram, Zekrom, Kyurem (Maybe), Xerneas, Yvetal, and Zygarde.

I call them a pantheon because they're basically the "big" Legendaries of the Pokemon world. Giratina and Kyurem may not end up receiving Primal Reversions due to their multiple forms already. However, the rest seem like likely candidates. This would also answer the question as to why Zygarde seems so...mild compared to Xerneas and Yvetal.

Pepperton June 15th, 2014 8:11 AM

The orbs kind of envelop Groudon and Kyogre with pure energy, speeding the devolution process up to immeasurable numbers, and activating their Primal forms. If the orbs have no pertinence to Primal Reversion, there could be a stone not currently released similar to Mega stones, only attainable once you've defeated Team Magma/Aqua.

Leaf Magics June 15th, 2014 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8301084)
I think that the orbs being together is suppose to symbolize the unity of land, sea (and sky if they add the Jade orb into the third part of the shrine like thing on the top of Mt. Pyre).

I think that while something else will be involved rather than regular Mega stones the process will turn out to be quite similar, which will be why GF says there's a connection between Primal Reversion and Mega Evolution on the official site.

I agree with all of this. The Orbs remaining together could be symbolic, rather than a requirement for them to work as intended. And I think an item will probably be needed for Primal Reversion.

Now, I've already explained why I think the item required could be something other than the Orbs, but that's just one theory I have. I wanted some feedback on it before posting another one. What do you think about it? Did I miss something that might mean the Orbs are what will trigger it?

BrandoSheriff June 15th, 2014 1:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leaf Magics (Post 8302509)
I agree with all of this. The Orbs remaining together could be symbolic, rather than a requirement for them to work as intended. And I think an item will probably be needed for Primal Reversion.

Now, I've already explained why I think the item required could be something other than the Orbs, but that's just one theory I have. I wanted some feedback on it before posting another one. What do you think about it? Did I miss something that might mean the Orbs are what will trigger it?

The orbs are what awakens them, so it's entirely possible that they could be used for Primal Reversion as well. But I think something other than the orbs will do it, in that they will be responsible for opening the way to said item that causes the reversion. Either that, or the orbs and that item will work hand-in-hand with each other to trigger it.

Another crazy theory I have is that they will be what causes it. Turning the orbs into hold items and giving it to Groudon and Kyogre. The Mega Bracelet would also resonate with those in some weird way that causes them to revert back to their primordial forms and awaken that old power, much like Mega Evolution, since the site says they're connected somehow.

Now, about their unrevealed abilities. I think, for Groudon, it will be some sort of ability that makes either his Fire-type moves or all of his moves use his attack stat, as Groudon doesn't really have that good a physical movepool besides Earthquake to use his beefy Attack stat, let alone give STAB. For Kyogre, I think it will be either the same thing, just for Sp. Atk, or something like Pixilate/Aerilate, turning normal-type moves or even all moves into Water-type moves.

Leaf Magics June 15th, 2014 3:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkrai Lv.1000 (Post 8302580)
The orbs are what awakens them, so it's entirely possible that they could be used for Primal Reversion as well. But I think something other than the orbs will do it, in that they will be responsible for opening the way to said item that causes the reversion. Either that, or the orbs and that item will work hand-in-hand with each other to trigger it.

Another crazy theory I have is that they will be what causes it. Turning the orbs into hold items and giving it to Groudon and Kyogre. The Mega Bracelet would also resonate with those in some weird way that causes them to revert back to their primordial forms and awaken that old power, much like Mega Evolution, since the site says they're connected somehow.

I know the Orbs wake them, but I explained that the Orbs may have no use after that. What I asked was, is there anything in the games or the official site that contradicts any part of the theory I posted, anything I didn't see?

The alternatives I have in mind are actually pretty similar to your second theory (they involve the Orbs as held items), but before posting them, I want to see if I missed anything with this one.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire June 15th, 2014 5:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leaf Magics (Post 8302666)
I know the Orbs wake them, but I explained that the Orbs may have no use after that. What I asked was, is there anything in the games or the official site that contradicts any part of the theory I posted, anything I didn't see?

The alternatives I have in mind are actually pretty similar to your second theory (they involve the Orbs as held items), but before posting them, I want to see if I missed anything with this one.

Nope, the official site doesn't destroy your theory.

I think that perhaps the orbs need to be absorbed rather than just them being exposed to them. The leader never handed the legend the orbs. The power of the orbs seem to corrupt (Anime and Manga) or can't be controled by those not strong enough (game). It could have something due to the Primal power sealed inside the orbs.
The official site hints at them losing it somehow. Thus far we only know from RSE about the creation of the orbs assuring they'll stay asleep.

Pepperton June 15th, 2014 5:37 PM

I think it would make a lot of sense if they created an entirely new item. Primal Reversion has never been heard of prior to ORAS, and so they may only have found the items that activate it recently, while the orbs tap into Groudon and Kyogre's power over weather. That would be reasonable, I think. Interesting to see what they do with the orbs if they go that route, though.

DJTiki June 15th, 2014 6:28 PM

I had a theory that the orbs acted as another version of the mega stones. But the orbs activated Primal Reversion, rather than Mega Evolutions. In the gameplay screenshots in the CoroCoro leak, you see that the symbol next to their health bars are completely different. So its obviously, not another form similar to something you would see with Deoxys or the Creation trio. I for one, would absolutely love it for the orbs to be a new mega stone. In the end of the scuffle in Sootopolis city, Maxie and/or Archie, hand over the orbs. So maybe when you get he orbs back, you can go back to Groudon and Kyorge, and the events of Primal Reversion will begin.

As for abilities, they said that their abilities will be enhanced, so I'm just guessing an infinite Drought or an infinite Drizzle.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire June 15th, 2014 6:54 PM

Maybe it'll be Evaporation- weakens grass and water moves. Grass as plants need water to live, signaling the depth of the drought. And Condensation- Weakens fire, rock, and ground moves (an extra type weakens to make up for Kyogre not getting an additional type...and possibly not getting a double type signature if Groudon's signature move does Ground and Fire damage like I'm theorizing.)

DJTiki June 15th, 2014 7:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8302886)
Maybe it'll be Evaporation- weakens grass and water moves. Grass as plants need water to live, signaling the depth of the drought. And Condensation- Weakens fire, rock, and ground moves (an extra type weakens to make up for Kyogre not getting an additional type...and possibly not getting a double type signature if Groudon's signature move does Ground and Fire damage like I'm theorizing.)

AND PRECIPITATION. Oh wait that's Drizzle

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire June 15th, 2014 7:09 PM

Those abilities could also involve a weather boost like Drizzle and Drought. In a way they could be like fancy versions of the moves used to weaken certain types, only far more helpful.

Or maybe just Eternal Drizzle and Eternal Drought...may call them the Great Flood and the Great Plague (you know when the locusts ate everything in Egypt) to reference the bibical roots of the legendaries.

DJTiki June 15th, 2014 7:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8302905)
Those abilities could also involve a weather boost like Drizzle and Drought. In a way they could be like fancy versions of the moves used to weaken certain types, only far more helpful.

Or maybe just Eternal Drizzle and Eternal Drought...may call them the Great Flood and the Great Plague (you know when the locusts ate everything in Egypt) to reference the bibical roots of the legendaries.

These abilities should either weaken some types, or just boost Fire and Water moves by more than what Drought and Drizzle does. Having both would be extremely overpowered.

Pepperton June 15th, 2014 7:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8302905)
Or maybe just Eternal Drizzle and Eternal Drought...may call them the Great Flood and the Great Plague (you know when the locusts ate everything in Egypt) to reference the bibical roots of the legendaries.

Those names sound epic! o: I think it should become a thing with legendary Pokemon that you must defeat them before you can capture them. Like, you make it faint, and then later on in the game it reappears and at that point you can throw Poke-balls at it. To me, the original battle would feel more like a conquering of power than it would be simply throwing a master-ball first turn, kind of loses some of its relevance as an important part of the game. Kind of an odd point of view, I know, and probably one not many have. n__n;

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire June 15th, 2014 9:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepperton (Post 8302942)
Those names sound epic! o: I think it should become a thing with legendary Pokemon that you must defeat them before you can capture them. Like, you make it faint, and then later on in the game it reappears and at that point you can throw Poke-balls at it. To me, the original battle would feel more like a conquering of power than it would be simply throwing a master-ball first turn, kind of loses some of its relevance as an important part of the game. Kind of an odd point of view, I know, and probably one not many have. n__n;

I've been hoping for something like that too. Mostly for the purposes of replaying the Emerald Story post main story as our mascot could return and battle against the other, forcing us to get Rayquaza. After that we'll be able to capture the three and get the Primal of our mascot.

You...now more so than before I'm thinking Rayquaza's Primal will require the other two to bet together. Maybe if we trade the other they'll escape temporary to recreate the Emerald scene. Imagine our character losing his/her control over his/her own Pokémon. It'll force us to go get Rayquaza to stop them. It'll also show that even a 10 year old by themselves can't control these two of these ancient beasts without their true master, Rayquaza.

Salzorrah June 15th, 2014 11:13 PM

I don't really get why we need to capture our mascot. Although I kinda like it, its kinda OP when it comes to the League. :/ Yeah, I agree that we should defeat the legend rather than capture it firsthand. If they do decide to defeat it, maybe they can retreat to the places that they were in Emerald? Maybe get the "megastones" when you defeat them in the storyline.

Salzorrah June 15th, 2014 11:14 PM

I kinda agree that it should be reserved to the legendaries seeing they are technically Legendary.

But I really wanted to see it happen to the fossils too or perhaps Magikarp? :33

Pepperton June 16th, 2014 8:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avant Garde (Post 8303141)
I don't really get why we need to capture our mascot. Although I kinda like it, its kinda OP when it comes to the League. :/ Yeah, I agree that we should defeat the legend rather than capture it firsthand. If they do decide to defeat it, maybe they can retreat to the places that they were in Emerald? Maybe get the "megastones" when you defeat them in the storyline.

Just personal preference with me, but I never use the legendary Pokemon after I catch it. Simply feel like it's way too overpowered and gives the player an unfair advantage over everyone else in the game, haha. Makes every battle child's play, which is absolutely no fun. I know some people who, once they capture the mascot legendary, use it almost exclusively for the rest of the main story line, which I disapprove of, but it's their choice. The whole 'battling them twice' idea could also come from Primal Reversion 'reviving' their ancient forms.

Leaf Magics June 16th, 2014 2:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8302789)
Nope, the official site doesn't destroy your theory.

I think that perhaps the orbs need to be absorbed rather than just them being exposed to them. The leader never handed the legend the orbs. The power of the orbs seem to corrupt (Anime and Manga) or can't be controled by those not strong enough (game). It could have something due to the Primal power sealed inside the orbs.
The official site hints at them losing it somehow. Thus far we only know from RSE about the creation of the orbs assuring they'll stay asleep.

Well, if things are as I think, perhaps the Orbs could be repurposed to siphon energy from the world into Groudon and Kyogre, rather than to becalm them.

That is another theory I have: like before, the Orbs were originally used to becalm the fighting Pokémon, but Teams Aqua and Magma may tamper with them during the story. I think this may happen shortly after they awaken Groudon and Kyogre, when they realize the Orbs do not allow them to control the Pokémon. They may try to make the Pokémon obey them by doing something to the Orbs, and these changes would cause the Orbs to force the world's natural power to flow through them into Groudon and Kyogre, activating their Primal Reversions. The Orbs become conductors for the power they need to Primal Reverse.

Another possibility is that the Orbs could be recharged. This still assumes that the Orbs' purpose is to becalm Groudon and Kyogre, and that they only hold enough power to awake them; once they are awakened, the Orbs are left empty. But after this, we may be able to recharge the Orbs using nature's power, and then make that power flow from the Orbs to the Pokémon during battle. This would trigger their Primal Reversion. At the end of each battle, that power would flow back into the Orbs until it is called again. The Orbs become containers for the extra power they need to Primal Reverse.

SnowpointQuincy June 16th, 2014 3:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avant Garde (Post 8303141)
I don't really get why we need to capture our mascot.

I'm all in favor of Boss Pokemon you can't catch. We had that in Gen1 with Cubone's Mother, and in Gen5 with Fusion-Kyurem in BW2. But they don't do much with the idea.

Sometimes it is a Wild Pokemon that is causing trouble, and in the case of Legends, maybe catching them should be Reserved for a Post-Game Challenge.

Like in Emerald you are supposed to catch a LV.70 Dragon and just keep it. Not only is it over-leveled, it is legendary. It is just bad game design. Just Ask the player to fight the Lv70 Dragon (which is hard enough) and then catch it later.

L0RD G3NGAR June 16th, 2014 3:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avant Garde (Post 8303141)
I don't really get why we need to capture our mascot. Although I kinda like it, its kinda OP when it comes to the League. :/ Yeah, I agree that we should defeat the legend rather than capture it firsthand. If they do decide to defeat it, maybe they can retreat to the places that they were in Emerald? Maybe get the "megastones" when you defeat them in the storyline.

So, you would like to never be able to capture them?

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire June 16th, 2014 8:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnowpointQuincy (Post 8304040)
I'm all in favor of Boss Pokemon you can't catch. We had that in Gen1 with Cubone's Mother, and in Gen5 with Fusion-Kyurem in BW2. But they don't do much with the idea.

Sometimes it is a Wild Pokemon that is causing trouble, and in the case of Legends, maybe catching them should be Reserved for a Post-Game Challenge.

Like in Emerald you are supposed to catch a LV.70 Dragon and just keep it. Not only is it over-leveled, it is legendary. It is just bad game design. Just Ask the player to fight the Lv70 Dragon (which is hard enough) and then catch it later.

Well Rayquaza is hard to get to. So in a way it's worth it as we have to climb that tower twice in Emerald (the first time to wake it up, and the second time to capture it). I remember falling a lot of time on both tries...

I like that they fixed the level issue in Pt by not having Giratina be so high of a level yet still high enough (especially since getting it wasn't as difficult as Rayquaza). I used Giratina after I got it to test it out (against wild Pokemon and irc Volkner).

Maybe they'll make it so like in Pt when you knock out the legend it won't be available until post game. Or they could pull a B2W2 and have it return post game (if they do the latter I hope the other mascot appears and we'll have a replay of the Emerald Sootopolis crisis)

Pepperton June 17th, 2014 8:00 AM

There are several things they could do with legendary battles. Pokemon being a game more centered around capturing and collecting creatures, battling other trainers, and trading, there wasn't any emphasis on boss battles or important events, so not much thought probably went into how the actual encounter of player and legendary goes. What they have right now is fine, it gives the player the option to either slay the beast, or capture it and use its power. I think it would be interesting if they forced you to defeat the legendary first, and later on, be able to catch it.

Hikamaru June 17th, 2014 8:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avant Garde (Post 8303141)
I don't really get why we need to capture our mascot. Although I kinda like it, its kinda OP when it comes to the League. :/ Yeah, I agree that we should defeat the legend rather than capture it firsthand. If they do decide to defeat it, maybe they can retreat to the places that they were in Emerald? Maybe get the "megastones" when you defeat them in the storyline.

I don't really want them pulling a B2/W2 on us, it was not fun being forced to defeat the mascot on first encounter (I know Kyurem was under Ghetsis' possession so that's justified) and if memory serves me right, in the original Ruby & Sapphire you were able to catch the mascot prior to the Elite Four, but maybe this time around you may obtain the item that can trigger the Primal Reversion after catching them, like how you obtained the Mewtwonite X/Y after catching Mewtwo in X & Y.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire June 17th, 2014 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monte Blanc (Post 8302092)
Primal Reversion may be reserved for the pantheon of Legendary Pokemon:

Mew, Lugia, Ho-Oh, Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza, Dialga, Palkia, Giratina (Maybe), Regigigas, Arceus, Reshiram, Zekrom, Kyurem (Maybe), Xerneas, Yvetal, and Zygarde.

I call them a pantheon because they're basically the "big" Legendaries of the Pokemon world. Giratina and Kyurem may not end up receiving Primal Reversions due to their multiple forms already. However, the rest seem like likely candidates. This would also answer the question as to why Zygarde seems so...mild compared to Xerneas and Yvetal.

It could work for a lot of them. Except for the Tao trio which can't have Primal forms as they were originally one, so if they get a Primal Reversion it'll also have to be part fusion for them to return to their original Dragon form.

PSNGhost June 17th, 2014 2:45 PM

this has more than likely already been pointed out, but, well, Primal Dialga. Probably Palkia and maybe Giratina too.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire June 17th, 2014 7:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hikamaru (Post 8304977)
I don't really want them pulling a B2/W2 on us, it was not fun being forced to defeat the mascot on first encounter (I know Kyurem was under Ghetsis' possession so that's justified) and if memory serves me right, in the original Ruby & Sapphire you were able to catch the mascot prior to the Elite Four, but maybe this time around you may obtain the item that can trigger the Primal Reversion after catching them, like how you obtained the Mewtwonite X/Y after catching Mewtwo in X & Y.

If it's the orbs they could make it so that we don't get them from Phoebe or her grandparents at Mt. Pyre until after the main story.

Pepperton June 18th, 2014 5:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8305917)
If it's the orbs they could make it so that we don't get them from Phoebe or her grandparents at Mt. Pyre until after the main story.

I like that! Due to the extreme power of the Primal forms, you can't unlock their capabilities until defeating the champion Steven, who reveals to you the whereabouts of the items and their purpose. It would fit perfectly - being the wise man he is, Steven keeps this radically strong item that can make the legendary mascots grow to twice their original size hidden from the player until they've proven themselves as worthy trainers!

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire June 18th, 2014 8:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepperton (Post 8306503)
I like that! Due to the extreme power of the Primal forms, you can't unlock their capabilities until defeating the champion Steven, who reveals to you the whereabouts of the items and their purpose. It would fit perfectly - being the wise man he is, Steven keeps this radically strong item that can make the legendary mascots grow to twice their original size hidden from the player until they've proven themselves as worthy trainers!

Well I was thinking that Maxie and Archie will return the orbs (again if they are the item) to the elders of Mt. Pyre like in the originals (they could give us Camerupite/ Sharpedite as a way to say sorry to us). Then post game Phoebe will call us up to meet with her at Mt. Pyre. She could expain them better. It'll give her an out of the E4 role. Steven could be there too but mostly let her explain it. Maybe she'll tell the player of a third legend (meaning we'll hear about the other mascot during the main story like in the originals) and tells us she'll it's orb to one who holds it, and the other two (G and K) to test our bonds/ power.

Leaf Magics June 18th, 2014 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8306703)
Well I was thinking that Maxie and Archie will return the orbs (again if they are the item) to the elders of Mt. Pyre like in the originals (they could give us Camerupite/ Sharpedite as a way to say sorry to us). Then post game Phoebe will call us up to meet with her at Mt. Pyre. She could expain them better. It'll give her an out of the E4 role. Steven could be there too but mostly let her explain it. Maybe she'll tell the player of a third legend (meaning we'll hear about the other mascot during the main story like in the originals) and tells us she'll it's orb to one who holds it, and the other two (G and K) to test our bonds/ power.

I'm hoping for some new lore on the Orbs. Maybe the people at the summit of Mt. Pyre will tell us more about them in these games.

antemortem June 18th, 2014 11:59 AM

It seemed really weird that none of the Elite Four had an out-of-E4 role so giving that little extra bit to Phoebe might flesh out her character more and also give the orbs/elders a little more story, which they could've also benefited from in the original games. It was a missed opportunity.

Pepperton June 18th, 2014 3:38 PM

The story line is there for them to make deeper, I think. Phoebe's the old woman's granddaughter, so it wouldn't be surprising in the least to see her make an appearance outside of the elite four at Mt. Pyre to discuss Primal Reversion and the orbs with the player; Steven doesn't even have to be present.

Salzorrah June 18th, 2014 11:48 PM

Yeah, What if Phoebe and Wallace have some kind of connection, flesh out the story a bit more considering the Cave of Origin wasn't much of an influence compared to Mt. Pyre?

Pepperton June 19th, 2014 8:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSNGhost (Post 8305561)
this has more than likely already been pointed out, but, well, Primal Dialga. Probably Palkia and maybe Giratina too.

Primal Dialgia is described as a Dialga that has lost control of its ability to control time due to Temporal Tower's collapse, changing it to this new form. It's also incapable of any type of logical reasoning, and only seeks to prevent time from flowing properly, as well as self-preservation. This very well might have something to do with Primal Reversion, as they are ancient beings and Dialga is unable to control time in its Primal form. Don't know if Palkia and Giratina would receive Primal forms though, because Dialgia is the "Temporal" Pokemon, which means "of or relating to time", giving it a connection to devolution.

ultrademise June 19th, 2014 9:07 AM

Hmmm.

PRIMAL DIALGA MAIN SERIES!

Fave pokemon battle ever and seems suspicious. Note that primal groudon/kyogre have those yellow things... PRIMAL DIALGA??? Can't wait. Is this the first time this theory has been written?


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 8:01 AM.


Like our Facebook Page Follow us on Twitter © 2002 - 2018 The PokéCommunity™, pokecommunity.com.
Pokémon characters and images belong to The Pokémon Company International and Nintendo. This website is in no way affiliated with or endorsed by Nintendo, Creatures, GAMEFREAK, The Pokémon Company or The Pokémon Company International. We just love Pokémon.
All forum styles, their images (unless noted otherwise) and site designs are © 2002 - 2016 The PokéCommunity / PokéCommunity.com.
PokéCommunity™ is a trademark of The PokéCommunity. All rights reserved. Sponsor advertisements do not imply our endorsement of that product or service. User generated content remains the property of its creator.

Acknowledgements
Use of PokéCommunity Assets
vB Optimise by DragonByte Technologies Ltd © 2023.