![]() |
Quote:
Evaporating Aura: Damage from Water attacks is reduced in half. My reasoning was that Primal Groudon's heat could be so intense that it would quickly evaporate any water near it. And I think it makes sense, since its normal form already had the power to potentially evaporate the oceans with Drought. I also suggested that the vapor which would result from this Ability could have some positive effect, like clearing Groudon's stat reductions, or healing any status problems its teammates may have. Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Sorry if this is off topic and hard to read. But I want people to see this. Apparently there will be a Emerald remake. And An Ancient Ryquaza. Apparently The emerald remake is going to be called Delta Emerald. This was apparently stated on a trade mark list a little bit ago.
Ancient Rayquaza, the reason I believe this will happen was another trade mark list, and all high priority Pokemon(Including Kyogre and Groudon) got megas, besides Jynx and Rayquaza, Plusle,and minimum.The latter 3 seem likely, but Rayquaza will likely be an Anchient Devolution(This one I've seen, while the Delta Emerald a friend told me he seen so it might not be legit) Sorry for the messy post. It is offtopic if this thread is only about Kyogre and groundons Devolutions. So sorry. Please move to appropriate area |
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Primal Kyogre gets Steam eruption
Primal Groudon gets Thousand arrows These are apparently signature moves to Volcanion and Zygarde. But its possible that they are not and that during the Form change a certain move turns into these. |
Quote:
Rayquaza is seen as their Master, so it's home having a connection to Mega Evolution is possible. After all we don't really know much about the tower's history...who created it, and why? |
Quote:
Also, Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre's Abilities are supposedly new/enhanced versions of Drizzle/Drought or something. |
Quote:
No, sorry this is just me predicting lol. But it would make sense. No info on there new abilities have been released, It's just what people want to see happen. Just like I want them two learn those moves. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
And for Groudon, Thousand Arrows would make a bit more sense than the above (Ground / Rock), but it still is unlikely. |
Quote:
Edit: apparently it's not in it's dex entries, but I do recall hearing about it somewhere, maybe in game... |
Quote:
Honestly, I'm leaning towards what seems to be the most logical explanation of trademarking Delta Emerald, and that's to give Nintendo the right to take action against hacks and fakes of such a game. They did this before, with Pokemon Water Blue around the times of FRLG, and Pokemon Grey after BW. Doesn't mean Rayquaza won't get a devolution, but if it's not in ORAS, I don't know that there's another game it'll be in. |
So I'm really not liking the type change on Groudon, so I'm still holding out for its "updated ability" to essentially be Drought + Levitate for Water, or even Water Absorb, lol! During a drought, the land needs water to be revitalized, so it actually makes sense...but depending on how strong Groudon's heat is, it could just evaporate the water before it reaches Groudon...otherwise, an attack like Bubble spells doom for it, ha ha!
And before anyone says it would be OP, just remember: it will still be weak to Ground-Type attacks; and Primal Groudon's Attack is being raised, not Special Attack, so the only attack it has to really deal with Kyogre (SolarBeam) still won't hit very hard (it actually learns NO Physical Fire attacks, which is a shame in and of itself........well, you can Tutor it Fire Punch B2W2...). Kyogre could get an updated Drizzle that makes Fire attacks do 0* damage, since the rain is so strong it can put out any fire. Kyogre would still be much stronger than Groudon with these sorts of abilities, so I don't think anyone would be upset by them. That's my idea, anyways! |
Quote:
Maybe I should've written it as "Ground <-> Rock" ;P |
Quote:
|
I could see them doing some very minor things to Groudon's ability if they actually want to decrease the huge advantage Kyogre has over it, but nothing that makes him totally immune to Water type moves. At the most, it could make Water moves hit for neutral damage, while Kyogre gets an ability that lowers the power of Ground type moves.
|
Quote:
Granted, Kyogre gaining a Ground resistance doesn't actually help it all that much, so in a way it's fair too, as Groudon still gets helped by its Ability, so I'd take something along these lines, too! |
At most Groudon will still 2x weak against water even if it were given an ability to weaken water moves. Besides Drought already weakens water moves, so if it's Primal self has an ability that further weakens water damage such as Solid Rock, or a new ability it'll be able to survive.
|
Quote:
|
Maybe they'll give Groudon Sturdy so it'll have time to Solar Beam Kyogre. Or if they give it Solid Rock it'll only take 3x instead of 4x damage to water. (and 1 1/2 to Ground).
|
Quote:
Tectonic Shield: Greatly reduces damage from supereffective attacks. Or it could double as a regular Solid Rock and Sturdy. A geology theme for this Ability, fitting in my opinion, since Groudon is the Continent Pokémon, and its skin could be as tectonic plates drifting over its molten interior. |
Quote:
The only case I could think of where this doesn't work is when Kyogre (or another pokémon with Drizzle) enters after Groudon itself. |
Quote:
|
According to Serebii's updated Primal Evolution page, Kyogre gets a Special Attack boost when devolving, and Groudon receives an attack boost. Was predictable enough, considering their move pools. Do you guys think due to his type change, Groudon will get some Fire moves in his arsenal?
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
Kyogre could get the same with a water version of Earthquake like Tsunami. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Having Rayquaza's Air Lock be the only thing that could null their weather would be cool, in-game and competitively in the Uber tier. Or something more than "Air Lock," I guess, if that/Cloud Nine from regular Pokemon wouldn't be enough to put a stop to the permanent weather.
|
I was looking at the official site just now in the mascots page, and saw this under Primal Groudon (image 4/9): "Spears of rock wrapped in magma stab out at the target! What move is this?!" Under Primal Kyogre (same image number) it says "What move is this?! The pillars of water that have been unleashed are assaulting the target!" That practically confirm that they'll get signature moves that have not been seen before! Finally my precious Weather Trio will have the signature moves they so deserve.
Oh I also found this nice tidbit on the top of Primal Groudon's part "Groudon has long been the heaviest of all known Pokémon. With its Primal Reversion, it smashes that record to pieces!" For Primal Kyogre it's "When Kyogre undergoes Primal Reversion, it becomes Primal Kyogre, and the length of its body more than doubles!" Damn those things are massive! Actually that may be an understatement. Here's the link to the site if you don't have it: http://www.pokemonrubysapphire.com/en-us/pokemon/legendary-pokemon/primal-groudon-and-primal-kyogre |
It's cute when they do little things like that. Like, I don't think anyone would care how long Kyogre is, but it's cute that they do!
|
Quote:
I think they should give Primal Groudon Heat Crash. After all it could use a physical fire move...massive over one ton thing lands on you...bones crack...one hit K.O. Also they hinted at a connection between Primal Reversion (it's official English name) and Mega Evolution. From what they've said about Primal Reversion the one connection there is is that they both draw energy from the natural world. (Honestly I'm becoming more certain that Zygarde is the one behind Mega Evolution...or at least one of the forces.) |
I wonder how Groudon and Kyogre lost there primal forms in the first place.
|
YESS, finally, after all of this "Atomic Regression" and Ancient Devolution" inconsistency/variable translating throughout the past week, we finally have an official name for the process (Primal Reversion)! I really like the name (and of course, anything with the -sion ending is practically cool by default! :P). As for the transformations themselves, I was really hoping that the English localizers would opt for the terms "Primeval Groudon/Kyogre" over "Primal Groudon/Kyogre", but whatever...I'll probably keep saying "Primeval" regardless. XD
Quote:
Also, they could at least let Groudon's Primally-Reverted form get to 1000 kilograms; 999.7 kilograms being 0.3 units away from a solid multiple of 10 just bothers me. XD Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
I read that in order to stop the raging beasts the ancient people created the orbs after the legends went to sleep. I think it may be in RSE. If so then the orbs are probably the manifestation of the Power that was taken from them. It'll explain why the beast react to them. On the official site it said they wanted more power for themselves so they clashed. Perhaps that's why they reacted to the opposite colored orb in R/S, they wanted that power. It also explains why having the orbs in HGSS summons them, it's probably similar to how the opposite Lati attacked in HGSS in order to get the Soul Dew. In other words they want their power back, and that of the legendary too...
|
I think the orbs and the Soul Dew may be the mega stones for these pokemon. It makes sense, at least to me. And regardless, if they change during battle, I will still consider them Megas even though the are different.
|
Quote:
I do wonder if it's the orbs if they'll get rid of Magma/Aqua returning the orb scene and apoligizing to the eldery couple at Mt. Pyre. |
Quote:
Now with the mega stones they get this strength back, although only for the duration of a battle. |
Maybe they'll transform while holding it, like Giratina and the Griseous Orb. So the entire time they're holding the item, they'll be in their reverted forme. The fact it's their natural energy being tapped into makes only lasting one battle after manually being called to transform (meaning they would revert and could be battled with outside of this form in another battle like regular Mega Evolution) is an inconsistent concept to me.
|
Quote:
At least in Emerald, the legend does not mention where the Orbs came from. If they were created by the ancient people, I think they would have to be containers for their power, rather than manifestations of it. In Ruby and Sapphire, I remember that both Orbs do something to the legendary Pokémon. One of them (the one the version's team steals) awakens it, and the other does something else. Remember that we obtain the Orb that our version's team doesn't steal and then it shines when we approach the legendary Pokémon; it is after that happens that it battles us. I don't remember (if it is stated) what our Orb does to it. And who knows, in Emerald the Orbs may have become inert after Team Aqua and Magma used them. After Rayquaza stops Groudon and Kyogre's fight, the legend told at Mt. Pyre changes to mention that Rayquaza stopped the battle, but the Orbs are no longer mentioned. Also, they are not required to battle Groudon or Kyogre when we find them later in their caves. It may be that the Orbs only contained the power that Groudon and Kyogre needed to reawaken, and if so, their Primal Reversion may have to be triggered by some other object. The official site mentions that they got their Primal forms by absorbing nature's energy, and that in the time when they first transformed, the world was overflowing with that energy. Maybe in the present day nature's energy is not as strong, and what they need to achieve Primal Reversion is something that helps them gather enough of nature's energy from around them to temporarily activate it. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
Yes, but even tho things get weaker, they tend to be smarter or can do things they couldn't before. I'm sure there is something else that contributed |
I think it's a combination of time and their power being drained/locked by the ancient people. After all the ancients of Hoenn did managed to lock up Regigigas which has power near the level of modern Groudon and Kyogre. Hey Regigigas should get a Primal Reversion too since it seems rusted...
Well Groudon lost it's 4x weakness against Kyogre... other than that they lost more than they could've gained... |
From the official ORAS website, it's stated that both Primal Groudon and Kyogre receive boosts to their abilities. Currently, the new forms have them listed as '???' but the website says to look out for further details regarding the hidden power of the Primal forms. Exciting stuff! :] What do you guys think these new abilities will entail?
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
And I forgot to mention this in my previous post, but Rayquaza possibly forced Groudon and Kyogre to stop fighting various times during early history. I think each time Rayquaza stopped them, they may have lost their Primal forms temporarily. It would have been shortly after one of these occasions that the ancients managed to send Groudon and Kyogre into a slumber by sealing their remaining power in the Orbs. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
The ONLY real question about "what is a Primal form" Is THIS:
MUST GROUDON HOLD AN ITEM TO CHANGE??? Megas can't hold items, which is sometimes undesirable. If Primal Forms don't use hold items, then they could hold Choice Items, or Berries. |
I think they'll need to hold items, like Groudite and Kyogrite (which will likely be a Ruby and Sapphire form of the orbs with their special signs) in order to call upon their lost power. I wonder if perhaps the reason nature's power (in the world as a whole) weakened has something to do with Zygarde and it seeming weakened... I feel this will tie back in with the conclusion of the Gen VI saga.
|
I strongly suspect that the Orbs will unlock the Primal Devolutions. The Orbs were strong enough to wake the legendaries up when they were in the same vicinity, imagine what power could be unlocked if the legendaries were actually holding the Orbs.
Also, if held items are required, this brings up another point: how will Primal Devolutions going to be involved in the storyline if they have to hold an item to transform? Will Maxie/Archie catch it, will the legends steal the Orbs, or will you be required to use one of the legends yourself? |
I think that Maxie/Archie will proably give it to the legend at one point, but then the legend will proceed to escape. It'll then activate their weather ability and make it sunny/rain.
Maxie/Archie will probably try to regain control by transforming it, but it'll backfire, thus causing more chaos. At least that's one likely scenerio. It's also possible that the legend could attack the evil team leader and retake it. Once they regain their orb they'll come after the player to get the other orb (someone hide the third orb aka the Jade orb safely or it's all over if the 10 year old fails...) |
I'm actually kind of convinced that the Red Orb and Blue Orb will be the primal item used to devolve them. I mean we could have Groudonite and Kyogrite but it seems to be kind of reserved to Mega Evolutions imo.
|
I think the orbs will change into something else. Like how the Enigma stone was revealed to be the Soul Dew. Maybe they'll be called Omegite and Alphite for them. Rayquaza can have Deltite.
|
It's certainly something Game Freak hasn't disclosed yet, but I think they'll end up being stones separate from the Mega stone category. Possibly the orbs, or even some new evolving stone that's specific to Primal Reversion, but I doubt there'll be any Groudonite or Kyogrite. The symbol in this screenshot might be a hint towards what they're going to do, but it also may have no relevance at all.
|
Quote:
Anyway, the one problem I see with the Primal Reversion items being the Orbs is that, if they were created with the purpose of stopping Groudon and Kyogre from fighting by absorbing and sealing their power within them (at least, it seems that is what they do in the legend), shouldn't they do exactly that if we exposed the Pokémon to them? Another thing I haven't brought up is that the two Orbs are supposed to remain together. Maybe these games could expand on that, explain why they must remain together, and what happens if they are separated. Perhaps the reason they woke the legendary Pokémon was that they were stolen and taken away from each other. |
I feel that the Team leaders would be trying to control the 2 so hard that the Blue and Red Orbs shatters and turns into another new Orbs, which in turns Primal Devolution the 2s.
|
Quote:
I think that while something else will be involved rather than regular Mega stones the process will turn out to be quite similar, which will be why GF says there's a connection between Primal Reversion and Mega Evolution on the official site. |
Quote:
|
So the English translation of Ancient Devolution is better! Tbh, I prefer Primal Reversion than the Japanese one.
I looked closely at the primal reversions of Kyogre and Groudon and see that the indicator usually used by the Megas are different, with Kyogre having a blue alpha on it while Groudon having a red omega on it. I don't know if this is an indicator that the primal reversions are reserved only to Kyogre and Groudon but I really hope that isn't the case. Btw off topic but 1000th post :) |
Quote:
Though, I could see it on Dialga. |
I hope it's exclusive to the Weather Trio; They better leave Dialga alone.
|
Quote:
But yeah I do agree that these Primal Reversions should only be for Kyogre and Groudon. |
Primal Reversion may be reserved for the pantheon of Legendary Pokemon:
Mew, Lugia, Ho-Oh, Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza, Dialga, Palkia, Giratina (Maybe), Regigigas, Arceus, Reshiram, Zekrom, Kyurem (Maybe), Xerneas, Yvetal, and Zygarde. I call them a pantheon because they're basically the "big" Legendaries of the Pokemon world. Giratina and Kyurem may not end up receiving Primal Reversions due to their multiple forms already. However, the rest seem like likely candidates. This would also answer the question as to why Zygarde seems so...mild compared to Xerneas and Yvetal. |
The orbs kind of envelop Groudon and Kyogre with pure energy, speeding the devolution process up to immeasurable numbers, and activating their Primal forms. If the orbs have no pertinence to Primal Reversion, there could be a stone not currently released similar to Mega stones, only attainable once you've defeated Team Magma/Aqua.
|
Quote:
Now, I've already explained why I think the item required could be something other than the Orbs, but that's just one theory I have. I wanted some feedback on it before posting another one. What do you think about it? Did I miss something that might mean the Orbs are what will trigger it? |
Quote:
Another crazy theory I have is that they will be what causes it. Turning the orbs into hold items and giving it to Groudon and Kyogre. The Mega Bracelet would also resonate with those in some weird way that causes them to revert back to their primordial forms and awaken that old power, much like Mega Evolution, since the site says they're connected somehow. Now, about their unrevealed abilities. I think, for Groudon, it will be some sort of ability that makes either his Fire-type moves or all of his moves use his attack stat, as Groudon doesn't really have that good a physical movepool besides Earthquake to use his beefy Attack stat, let alone give STAB. For Kyogre, I think it will be either the same thing, just for Sp. Atk, or something like Pixilate/Aerilate, turning normal-type moves or even all moves into Water-type moves. |
Quote:
The alternatives I have in mind are actually pretty similar to your second theory (they involve the Orbs as held items), but before posting them, I want to see if I missed anything with this one. |
Quote:
I think that perhaps the orbs need to be absorbed rather than just them being exposed to them. The leader never handed the legend the orbs. The power of the orbs seem to corrupt (Anime and Manga) or can't be controled by those not strong enough (game). It could have something due to the Primal power sealed inside the orbs. The official site hints at them losing it somehow. Thus far we only know from RSE about the creation of the orbs assuring they'll stay asleep. |
I think it would make a lot of sense if they created an entirely new item. Primal Reversion has never been heard of prior to ORAS, and so they may only have found the items that activate it recently, while the orbs tap into Groudon and Kyogre's power over weather. That would be reasonable, I think. Interesting to see what they do with the orbs if they go that route, though.
|
I had a theory that the orbs acted as another version of the mega stones. But the orbs activated Primal Reversion, rather than Mega Evolutions. In the gameplay screenshots in the CoroCoro leak, you see that the symbol next to their health bars are completely different. So its obviously, not another form similar to something you would see with Deoxys or the Creation trio. I for one, would absolutely love it for the orbs to be a new mega stone. In the end of the scuffle in Sootopolis city, Maxie and/or Archie, hand over the orbs. So maybe when you get he orbs back, you can go back to Groudon and Kyorge, and the events of Primal Reversion will begin.
As for abilities, they said that their abilities will be enhanced, so I'm just guessing an infinite Drought or an infinite Drizzle. |
Maybe it'll be Evaporation- weakens grass and water moves. Grass as plants need water to live, signaling the depth of the drought. And Condensation- Weakens fire, rock, and ground moves (an extra type weakens to make up for Kyogre not getting an additional type...and possibly not getting a double type signature if Groudon's signature move does Ground and Fire damage like I'm theorizing.)
|
Quote:
|
Those abilities could also involve a weather boost like Drizzle and Drought. In a way they could be like fancy versions of the moves used to weaken certain types, only far more helpful.
Or maybe just Eternal Drizzle and Eternal Drought...may call them the Great Flood and the Great Plague (you know when the locusts ate everything in Egypt) to reference the bibical roots of the legendaries. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
You...now more so than before I'm thinking Rayquaza's Primal will require the other two to bet together. Maybe if we trade the other they'll escape temporary to recreate the Emerald scene. Imagine our character losing his/her control over his/her own Pokémon. It'll force us to go get Rayquaza to stop them. It'll also show that even a 10 year old by themselves can't control these two of these ancient beasts without their true master, Rayquaza. |
I don't really get why we need to capture our mascot. Although I kinda like it, its kinda OP when it comes to the League. :/ Yeah, I agree that we should defeat the legend rather than capture it firsthand. If they do decide to defeat it, maybe they can retreat to the places that they were in Emerald? Maybe get the "megastones" when you defeat them in the storyline.
|
I kinda agree that it should be reserved to the legendaries seeing they are technically Legendary.
But I really wanted to see it happen to the fossils too or perhaps Magikarp? :33 |
Quote:
|
Quote:
That is another theory I have: like before, the Orbs were originally used to becalm the fighting Pokémon, but Teams Aqua and Magma may tamper with them during the story. I think this may happen shortly after they awaken Groudon and Kyogre, when they realize the Orbs do not allow them to control the Pokémon. They may try to make the Pokémon obey them by doing something to the Orbs, and these changes would cause the Orbs to force the world's natural power to flow through them into Groudon and Kyogre, activating their Primal Reversions. The Orbs become conductors for the power they need to Primal Reverse. Another possibility is that the Orbs could be recharged. This still assumes that the Orbs' purpose is to becalm Groudon and Kyogre, and that they only hold enough power to awake them; once they are awakened, the Orbs are left empty. But after this, we may be able to recharge the Orbs using nature's power, and then make that power flow from the Orbs to the Pokémon during battle. This would trigger their Primal Reversion. At the end of each battle, that power would flow back into the Orbs until it is called again. The Orbs become containers for the extra power they need to Primal Reverse. |
Quote:
Sometimes it is a Wild Pokemon that is causing trouble, and in the case of Legends, maybe catching them should be Reserved for a Post-Game Challenge. Like in Emerald you are supposed to catch a LV.70 Dragon and just keep it. Not only is it over-leveled, it is legendary. It is just bad game design. Just Ask the player to fight the Lv70 Dragon (which is hard enough) and then catch it later. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
I like that they fixed the level issue in Pt by not having Giratina be so high of a level yet still high enough (especially since getting it wasn't as difficult as Rayquaza). I used Giratina after I got it to test it out (against wild Pokemon and irc Volkner). Maybe they'll make it so like in Pt when you knock out the legend it won't be available until post game. Or they could pull a B2W2 and have it return post game (if they do the latter I hope the other mascot appears and we'll have a replay of the Emerald Sootopolis crisis) |
There are several things they could do with legendary battles. Pokemon being a game more centered around capturing and collecting creatures, battling other trainers, and trading, there wasn't any emphasis on boss battles or important events, so not much thought probably went into how the actual encounter of player and legendary goes. What they have right now is fine, it gives the player the option to either slay the beast, or capture it and use its power. I think it would be interesting if they forced you to defeat the legendary first, and later on, be able to catch it.
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
this has more than likely already been pointed out, but, well, Primal Dialga. Probably Palkia and maybe Giratina too.
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
It seemed really weird that none of the Elite Four had an out-of-E4 role so giving that little extra bit to Phoebe might flesh out her character more and also give the orbs/elders a little more story, which they could've also benefited from in the original games. It was a missed opportunity.
|
The story line is there for them to make deeper, I think. Phoebe's the old woman's granddaughter, so it wouldn't be surprising in the least to see her make an appearance outside of the elite four at Mt. Pyre to discuss Primal Reversion and the orbs with the player; Steven doesn't even have to be present.
|
Yeah, What if Phoebe and Wallace have some kind of connection, flesh out the story a bit more considering the Cave of Origin wasn't much of an influence compared to Mt. Pyre?
|
Quote:
|
Hmmm.
PRIMAL DIALGA MAIN SERIES! Fave pokemon battle ever and seems suspicious. Note that primal groudon/kyogre have those yellow things... PRIMAL DIALGA??? Can't wait. Is this the first time this theory has been written? |
| All times are GMT -8. The time now is 8:01 AM. |
![]()
© 2002 - 2018 The PokéCommunity™, pokecommunity.com.
Pokémon characters and images belong to The Pokémon Company International and Nintendo. This website is in no way affiliated with or endorsed by Nintendo, Creatures, GAMEFREAK, The Pokémon Company or The Pokémon Company International. We just love Pokémon.
All forum styles, their images (unless noted otherwise) and site designs are © 2002 - 2016 The PokéCommunity / PokéCommunity.com.
PokéCommunity™ is a trademark of The PokéCommunity. All rights reserved. Sponsor advertisements do not imply our endorsement of that product or service. User generated content remains the property of its creator.
Acknowledgements
Use of PokéCommunity Assets
vB Optimise by DragonByte Technologies Ltd © 2023.