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As for how humanity could've done it, well magic. There may have been humans with special powers that managed to drain the remaining natural energy from the legends to form the orbs. In the franchise we've seen people with unique powers such as Sabrina, Liza and Tate, N, and to some extent the MC her/himself. |
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And I've said it before, but the official site says that Primal Reversion was a transformation that happened in ancient times because of nature's energy; it doesn't seem to be a Pokémon literally reverting to a previous form. Quote:
Remember that the ancients did things like sealing the Regis and their leader (along with engineering or actually magicking the procedure to release them) and building things like the Ultimate Weapon and the Anistar sundial (which apparently would be impossible to build with current technology), so I think it's perfectly possible that the ancients could have created the Orbs. |
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I reckon this is where the orbs start to come into play. They react to Groudon/Kyogres energy causing to primal evolve.
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I think you forget how the Ultimate Weapon worked: once it was built, it absorbed the life force of many Pokémon, and once charged it was devastating enough to end a war in a single blast. In recent history, it was unearthed by Team Flare and it was shown that it is capable of absorbing all of a legendary Pokémon's power. It is prevented from doing so, but with the little energy it had left, it still destroyed part of the town that had been built around it. And it was created by a human thousands of years ago. This is why I think it is pretty reasonable (though not the only possible explanation; we can speculate freely on this, as I said) that the two Orbs could have been created by other humans, also thousands of years ago. The Orbs wouldn't even need to absorb all of their energy, only enough to make their battle stop. |
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I thought the way the ultimate worked by killing Yvetal which would then kill off a life on the Planet....but what you said makes more sense. |
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And again, this is just one possibility of how the Orbs may have appeared. Many theories could turn out to be true because we have so little information on this. |
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Anyways it is possible for them to create something like the orbs. The orbs might also have been created similar to Sableye's jewel. Perhaps the energy of the Primals was so strong that they couldn't hold it in, and thus it forms a jewel, but unlike Mega Sableye they have no access to the powers of the orbs. |
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And I like the idea that the orbs could become their mega primal stones. Something additional might just make it confusing. x_o |
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The orbs can easily be integrated into the plot, like Phoebe's grandmother, or Phoebe herself, if she makes an appearance at Mt. Pyre, giving them to you after defeating the evil teams at the haunted mountain. Would make sense for them to be the primal stones.
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Also by Haunted mountain you mean Mt. Pyre right? Well Magma and Aqua will need the orb that matches the legend to summon it so that won't do (irc in Emerald they took both so we got none). Maybe post game they'll give them to us. |
So do you think as more games come out, more legendaries will get Primal Reversions, or will this be a Hoenn only feature? Discuss!
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It's certainly possible that the Creation Trio could get Primals, considering how old they are as well. Though it is a thing I'd only like a few Pokemon to get.....
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I think that it'll be more limited than Megas are. Possibly only to the Weather trio. Perhaps the Regi trio and their master. Of course the creation trio, Lake trio, and their master too. With those being all of them I can see.
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Oh I like the idea of the Regi trio getting Primal forms! What do you think they'll look like, and what'll their stats be like?
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As for Registeel since both it's defenses are equal and has somewhat decent offensive stats both could flip to make it a mix attack, and it could get a boost to it's new defenses (so that they won't be 75), and a lot of speed too. With the ability technician. Primal Regirock will be the physical version of Physical Regice (since their normal selves are already like that). With it becoming a physical sweeper. Imagine a 200 attack pokemon with 150 speed... With the ability Sand Stream. As for their master I see them boosting it's attack and speed without the flipping of any stats unlike I suggested with the trio. With 40 for attack (to match Regirock) and 60 in speed to out speed it's trio. Or maybe 45 for attack, and 55 for speed to beat Regirock in both (by five), also the ability sheer force. |
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Maybe Primal Dialga is introduced in canon games with its design the exact same as it was in spin-off? Palkia would probably have a relatively similar concept change, with minimal alterations.
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I'm sure Game Freak is well aware of the confusion it causes, and may decide to simply use the design from the spin-off in canon, with minor alterations like I said, to accurately depict a devolution.
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I think that the creation trio may end up getting something other than Primals to avoid any confusion. Or make Primal Dialga (in all languages) far more different looking so that it may not be confused with Dark Dialga in those parts where both would be called Primal Dialga. |
They may just completely ignore Dialga's 'Primal' form entirely and go with a different trio, like maybe the Johto dogs? No reason why I mentioned them, just the first trio that came into my head haha.
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Apart from the Regi trio, another normal trio I can see getting Primal reversions is the other trio Arceus made, the Lake trio. Hopefully with Mesprit as Psychic/Fire, Azelf as Psychic/Ice, and Uxie as Psychic/Electric (as a reference to the Tm's found by their lakes, as well as their colors). |
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I'd be surprised if any Pokemon other than Groudon/Kyogre/Rayquaza got Primal forms. The weather trio are meant to be ancient, archetypal forces of nature. Jirachi, Deoxys, the Regis, etc., don't have that kind of association. So for them, at least, no primal forms. Megas, though, that's another story.
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Regis could get Primals, it makes more sense than most of the other Hoenn legendaries.
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One thing I'm wondering is, if any Pokémon other than the weather trio did get Primal Reversions, wouldn't we need to add categories to it? We know each Primal Pokémon so far has a unique icon (an uppercase omega for Groudon and a lowercase alpha for Kyogre), so if other Pokémon got them, what icon would they use? Would we have Alpha Reversions, Omega Reversions, and a possible third type of Reversion defined by Rayquaza? Would each Primal Pokémon get its own symbol? |
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Also the reason why I bring up Mew and the Regis is because they are ancient. Which fits with the meaning of the word used in both Japanese and english as Ancient, Prehistoric, and first. |
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About the original dragon of Unova. If it was brought back, I feel like it should be done by fusing Kyurem with Reshiram and Zekrom again, or by having Kyurem absorb some of their power. If it was through Primal Reversion, it would be more of a reconstruction of Kyurem's old body using new energy drawn from nature, and not really a return of the original dragon. It could even end up with a completely new form if it Primal Reversed. Quote:
Going by that, simply being ancient doesn't necessarily mean that a Pokémon is capable of Primal Reversion. Being ancient means that it would have been around during the time when the world's natural energy was strong enough to Primal Reverse, but it doesn't say anything about that Pokémon's ability to actually do so. In other words, the name Primal Reversion seems to refer to it being a transformation only seen, or only possible, during the world's early days, rather than to it being only possible for ancient Pokémon. |
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About the legend. It seems to have '...' to signify that there's more to the legend. Even the second part ends with the '...' meaning that the second '...' is probably Rayquaza's part of the legend and how they were stopped. |
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You recall how in XY they compared Mega stones to Evolution stones, and the theory (I think it was Sycamore's) that the Mega Stones are possibly transformed Evolution stones? Well I think that Primal Reversion may be that to the 'Ancient Power' evolutions, in that the legend gains access to a stronger version of the power the move gives. Speaking of Ancient Power the Weather trio all have access to the move. Perhaps using Ancient Power along with them having a special item attached will trigger it to Primal reverse (and Ancient Power can then transform into their signature move). |
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If it is, maybe in the present that power is indeed weaker (the official site already seems to imply this), and drawing from it is only enough to produce an attack. I remember proposing a sort of energy siphon as the Primal Reversion item, and it would fit well with this theory. The Pokémon would need to amplify or store enough of the now-weaker natural power to be able to Primal Reverse. Although there is also the attack Nature Power, which is directly stated to use nature's power just like Groudon and Kyogre. What do you think about it? None of the weather trio learns it. Also, about Mega Evolution, maybe the difference it has with Primal Reversion is the source of the power the Pokémon uses to transform. Mega Evolution may use hidden potential that has always been within the Pokémon, while Primal Reversion may utilize energy that comes from an outside source; from the environment. This would also fit with the item for Primal Reversion being an energy siphon that channels the energy from the world into the Pokémon. |
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If there are more Primals other than GKR they may end up being the ones who can learn Ancient Power by level up. Well the exceptions to that could be Togekiss seeing how Togekiss itself doesn't learn the move but Togepi and Togetic do, and Aerodactyl already has a Mega. Oh and the Tao trio too as it should be a fusion of the three dragons. Even Corsola could get a Primal, as Corals existed in the distant past (interestingly Pacificlodge is said to have been built over Corsola, and that town seems to have a connection to the Regis (plus Sky Pillar is nearby) so it maybe old). The other Pokemon on that list are the fossils which are ancient and can probably draw more of the power of the past. Also Claydol and Bronzong are quite ancient too. Then there's Carbink which was created after millions of years, so it may actually have been created by the natural energy coming in contact with a diamond on the ground. Now as for the symbols. Perhaps they could have the version exclusive's have either Alpha or Omega. The ones in both such as Corsola can have Delta. |
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There are the Therian Formes for Unova's flying trio; that's an entire category just for those three. They could just have used the term Origin Forme for them, a term that was already established and that only Giratina had. It would have fit perfectly too, since the Therian Formes are apparently their "original shape", and yet they created the Therian Forme concept just for them. And if that has been done for them, a minor legendary trio, why not for the main, box-featured duo of a pair of remakes? There are even features that have been given to a single member of a trio, like Giratina's Origin Forme that I just mentioned, Xerneas's Active Mode, and Kyurem's ability to fuse with one of the other two dragons. This is also why I'm not taking Primal Rayquaza for granted. Quote:
But besides all of that, if Primal Reversion is going to work just like Mega Evolution, and be given to many Pokémon, again just like Mega Evolution, why create the concept in the first place? Why not make them all Mega Evolutions? I think it is because Primal Reversion, as a game concept, was created to give the main legendaries of the remakes something a bit different, something that set them apart from all the other Pokémon with Mega Evolutions. It would be just like why Therian Formes were made. They are a different term from Giratina's Origin Forme, but are essentially the same thing - it simply gives all of the legendary Pokémon involved something unique to each of them. I think the same will be true for Primal Reversion: a kind of Mega Evolution unique to the weather trio. Quote:
Primal Reversion had already been shown when Mega Diancie was revealed too, so they didn't have that restriction of spoiling a new mechanic, unlike with Aerodactyl getting a Mega on XY. So yet again, I don't think a Pokémon being ancient is the important part of Primal Reversion, but I agree with what you said about how Ancient Power could work for triggering it on the two that are confirmed to have it. |
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As for Diancie getting a Mega...it seems to be linked to Mega evolution as it resembles the Anistar clock. So a Mega would've fit it better. Also my latest statement was meant to be Pokemon connected to the past somehow, instead of them actually being old. Their age is only part of that connection. Btw I think Primal may be a reference to "Primal instincts" especially since Groudon and Kyogre are described to have become greedy, and savage in their thirst for more of the power. So they're reverting back into a chaotic mentality. |
[QUOTE=. Btw I think Primal may be a reference to "Primal instincts" especially since Groudon and Kyogre are described to have become greedy, and savage in their thirst for more of the power. So they're reverting back into a chaotic mentality.[/QUOTE]
That would make sense, but the regis would make sense too, because in the original you needed certian pokemon like the living fossil relicanth to open there tombs, so im thinking that when they were created they were gaining power and they were then locked up and regressed to weaker forms |
^ That's right, that could've been why they were sealed. As it was never explained what they or Regigigas did that was so bad to warrant getting sealed.
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Actually, it would be like how most alternate formes for legendary Pokémon could simply be called exactly that, but get unique names depending on the Pokémon anyway. |
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Anyways after my comment on reverting to one's Primal instincts I'm wonder if Rayquaza may not get a Primal as Rayquaza is the peace keeper. But then again it's not very peaceful either...and is quite over protective of it's territory like the other two. |
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I sure hope that Magikarp will also get a primal reversion since it states on the pokedex that it was tough before..
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From the latest trailer it looks like the legend Primal reverses when we meet them in what seems to be Origin Cave (which will match the originals). So the theory of the orbs causing them seems more likely as it was the orb we were given that caused them to attack us in the originals. Well that or a new item like the Bells in HgSs, whose legends only needed the wing to cause them to appear in the originals, but needed both in the remakes.
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Magikarp is a pretty cool idea of a Primal, but I really don't see it happening haha especially since Gyarados has a Mega.
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My feelings of Primal Rayquaza being announced this month are getting stronger, especially since Get Tv is suppose to announce something on the 14th which is one day before Emerald's 10th anniversary.
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This has probably already been mentioned, but I think there's an obvious Primal pokemon choice.
*Looks at Dialga* Regardless, it's a pretty cool thing, from what I've seen. |
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I think Origin cave being the first place we see their Primal reversions to be fitting as the cave is said to hold an energy equal to Mt. Pyre (another orb connection there). Plus it said to be where life begins (a link to Xerneas maybe? Which is connected to Mega Evolution, as is Yvetal (a link with Mt. Pyre maybe?)). Btw for anyone wondering Cave of Origin's Japanese name is cave of Awakening, so while it's Japanese name doesn't have as strong beginning of life connotations, they're still there, as Life can be described in terms of Sleeping and Awaking up (sleep being death, and awakening being birth, with birth by sleep implying reincarnation/revival). |
Perhaps Primal will be permanent?
In thisfootage, it showcased Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre, and revealed that the moveswe've seen them use in previous images are new moves rather than reanimated moves. I dont knowhow else this would make sense unless they learn a 5th move ir a move gets replaced. I think Primal will be permanent forms |
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Right now, we know Primal Reversion gives a boost to their Abilities, and that it increases Kyogre's Special Attack and Groudon's Attack, so unless there are any drawbacks we do not know about yet, I think it will be like Mega Evolution, triggered in battle, with a shared once-per-battle restriction. About their new moves, and adding to what ORAS said: I've suggested before, also in this same thread, that one of their moves could get replaced by a new one for the duration of their Primal Reversion. I'll just repost what I thought back then, since I still think it could work, and we now have confirmation that they are indeed getting new attacks: Quote:
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Well Kyurem's formes overshadow regular Kyurem, so it wouldn't be out there for Primal Groudon to overshadow normal Groudon, and Primal Kyogre to overshadow normal Kyogre. However, irc they showed those two transforming in midbattle in what looks like a wi-fi/inferred battle. Plus it's linked to Mega evolution, which isn't permanent.
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I still consider it a problem however, especially if you take into account that these alternate formes would overshadow Groudon and Kyogre (both of whom are already very powerful) as opposed to overshadowing regular Kyurem (who actually needed a boost compared to other legendary mascots). |
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If I am not mistaking, didn't one of the earlier trailers show Primal Kyogre and Groudon changing from normal in a battle much like Megas?
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Yeah, they did. |
I would also like to point out that Mega Sceptile also seems to be getting a signature move to support the idea of primals being like megas. This seems to be proven in a trailer for the upcoming Mega Evo Part 2 in the anime where it shoots off its tail.
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They could have made Kyurem's formes' stats be redistributions of the original Kyurem's, like they did with Giratina, who was already on par with its fellow mascots. But they didn't, because they knew that it was weaker than its counterparts, and knew that it needed higher stats to be closer to them. Of course, Kyurem's alternate formes ended up having higher stats than its counterparts, but they also got a restriction of one per game, and require giving up one of the legendary dragons for as long as one wants to use the alternate Kyurem forme. Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre's restriction could be a one-per-battle limit shared with Mega Evolution, if their transformation happens in battle (which is what I think will happen). The alternative could be a reduction in their other stats, which would probably mean a redistribution like Giratina's in a transformation outside of battle. Quote:
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Anyways I honestly see the Primals being in battle only like Megas too. Now the biggest question is if that's the path they're going to take, will we be able to use both a Mega and a Primal? or will the one mon slot be shared by both. |
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OK, rephrasing: Maybe all starters will get signature moves (that are actually intended to be signature moves and stay like that) from now on, like the Kalos ones did and have kept so far. Quote:
Although I honestly would love to be able to use Primal Kyogre along with Mega Mewtwo Y (Mega Mewtwo Y is my favorite Mega and I like how Primal Kyogre looks), but if the boosts are comparable, it would make sense that they share the limit with Mega Evolution. |
I doubt they will reveal primal Rayquaza, as they obviously dont want us to know Sky pillar is there. Maybe we have to find it ourselves then take it to somewhere >.<
Or Maybe it will be an Event. But I doubt we will be shown it before November 21st. Maybe the December CoroCoro |
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On topic. Yeah, I can't see them allowing us to use two very strong Pokemon in one battle. Now, if Rayquaza get's a signature move I wonder how it'll look like. Groudon's is half cooled down lava, Kyogre's looks like a powerful jet of water arrows. Since their signature move shows off their Primal's typings well, and if Rayquaza like Kyogre keeps the same typing as it's normal form, perhaps Rayquaza will get a meteor attack that involves slicing winds. Whatever it ends up looking like I see it coming from above, in contrast to how Groudon's move comes from below, and Kyogre's comes towards you from in front. Well behind could work too. Or maybe it'll start from above and end with something hitting the opponent from behind. Btw, has anyone else noticed how the legendary Pokemon with Megas have signature moves? Latios has his Luster Purge, and Latias has her Mist Ball, the Mewtwos have Psystrike, and Diancie has it's Diamond Storm... |
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Primal Groudon can get Solid Rock, and Primal Kyogre can get Water Absorb. That is if they don't gain brand new signature abilities. |
I have an idea for the names of the new moves for Kyogre and Groudon:
Groudon - Primal Burn Kyogre - Ancient Wave Yes? No? |
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In PMD dialga becomes "primal" because iirc he's overcome with rage... Where in ORAS kyogre and groudon become primal because they revert back to their original formes before they created land and sea or whatever, making them more powerful because they haven't used that power ton create stuff yet. There's a huge difference between the two and they're not even similar in the slightest.... People, please stop comparing the two it's a major annoyance of mine...... |
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My bad. I suppose I made an error, I thank you in correcting it./Sincerity mode. |
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It would be interesting if Dialga (Palkia, and Giratina) got a Primal form though. But those should probably be saved for DPP remakes. |
Wait, new moves? Wouldn't that mean complete and utter lockout for using Groudon/Kyogre in XY, considering how I can't see a move just popping up mid-battle? Or they really are going to patch everything into XY, just unable to obtain em unless through trade. As for the DPt legends, I'm assuming they're not going to be primal, but universal. Or better, Temporal/Spacial/Anti.
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But something I was thinking....what if Primal Groudon's and Primal Kyogre's signature moves are already in X/Y's coding? OR&AS mentioned on the previous page that Primal Kyogre's move looks like a series of water arrows or something....and there was a move discovered by hackers in X/Y's coding called "Thousand Arrows". The more popular theory is that Thousand Arrows and Thousand Waves are supposed to be signature moves for future Zygarde forms, but maybe that's not the case. Could someone post the screenshots/video showing these new moves of Groudon and Kyorge's? I wanna see them for myself. |
You know those shots in the videos with Kyogre and Groudon, the former creating a pressured ball of water and the latter shooting spikes out of the ground we've seen many times? Those are it.
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Maybe we will know about the moves in the next CoroCoro...
which will be leaking quite soon I believe. Haven't even following it much because of IFA and tomorrow's Apple event. |
Primal Mewtwo
I think there will be more Primal forms then Groudon and Kyogre, most probably Primal Rayquaza
but the one who needs a primal form the most is Mewtwo Mewtwo is the strongest pokemon and it needs a new primal uber form or it will be overshadowed by lesser legendaries Mewtwo is the first legendary and if it anyone deserves a primal form it is Mewtwo! Mewtwo's mega forms kinda suck anyway. now is the chance game freak, correct your mistake and give Mewtwo a form worthy of the best pokemon! maybe its mega forms can get primal forms too. mega primal mewtwo x and mega primal mewtwo y |
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1. Mewtwo was made by scientist so I'm guessing that's why there won't be a primal form like Kyogre and Groudon. 2. Technically, Articuno is the first legendary. 3. Mewtwo's mega forms are not that bad. |
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1 maybe mewtwo scientists create was born as primal mewtwo but reverted to original mewtwo because of stress 2 im talking about real legendarys! the big ones like giratina, lugia, arceus etc. legendaries like articuno are weak 3 no they are bad! they insult the perfection of Mewtwo! Mewtwo was already the ultimate being, it didnt need to evolve! |
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ive found it, this is what Primal Mewtwo should look like!
http://loyalkng.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/pokemon-realistic-arvalis-RJ-Palmer-nintendo-gamefreak-mewtwo-mew-ditto.jpg yes, this is truly how you improve on perfection. watch and learn game freak |
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Honestly I'd want some type of Mewtwo Robotic version, like with the technology on him in the movie and anime. He would be uncatchable but would be like one of the pokemon the final fight from Team [insert name here].
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You kind of contradicted yourself by saying that it was perfect and didn't need to evolve and now asking for a 'primal reversion' considering reversion seems to be pretty similar to mega evolution as far as I am aware.
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I wouldn't be against Mewtwo getting some sort of 'natural' forme. Even more so, I'd love what was mentioned above; some sort of robotic or mechanic forme similar to the first movie. As a side note... I really like his Megas. I think they're pretty cool. |
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meh mew celebi etc they weak legendaries, about as legendary as archanine its not about an upgrade, its about regaining mewtwos honor! the mega mewtwos r ugly. we need a beautiful primal mewtwo to fix things Quote:
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but then game freak ruined everything by giving it two ugly mega forms!!! so to fix the ugly megas we must give it brand new primal form Quote:
think bout it, mewtwo is a mutated clone! it even has a second spinal cord! robotic form is gud but its gonna be just like a alternate skin, same ol mewtwo just different lookin no! dey ugly! gamefreak! u wronged mewtwo! now give him primal form! |
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Two spinal cords? Are you talking about the weird tube thing in the back of its head? Is that a spinal cord? I always thought that was just something that kept its head from falling over since it has a small neck? |
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no mewtwo is beautiful! even if u dont think mewtwo is beautiful, dem megas r just ugly and stupid looking im fine with shiny godzilla mewtwo yah da tube thingie, i think its a spinal cordy or just some nerve cluster providing juice to his big psychic brain now u guys stop praising his mega forms or else mewtwo will shoot u! http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2011/054/1/1/mewtwo_by_turbocharge0-d3a5u79.png |
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heck i'll even get them to give his mega forms primal devolutions |
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quite a few look good like mega garchomp, sceptile, aragon etc but something like mega manectric... thats just dumb and wtf is mega slowpoke even? |
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