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-   -   6th Gen Primal Reversion Discussion & Speculation Thread (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=325811)

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire June 12th, 2014 8:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepperton (Post 8297540)
According to Serebii's updated Primal Evolution page, Kyogre gets a Special Attack boost when devolving, and Groudon receives an attack boost. Was predictable enough, considering their move pools. Do you guys think due to his type change, Groudon will get some Fire moves in his arsenal?

You mean MORE Fire moves? It has some of the strongest like Fire Blast and Eruption but those are special moves. So it could use Flare Blitz so it'll have a physical fire move to take advantage of it's high attack.

Pepperton June 12th, 2014 9:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8297542)
You mean MORE Fire moves? It has some of the strongest like Fire Blast and Eruption but those are special moves. So it could use Flare Blitz so it'll have a physical fire move to take advantage of it's high attack.

That's what I was referring to, haha. Kind of depressing when he gets a boost in Attack but can't utilize his new STAB typing because of a deficiency in physical Fire moves. Not sure, they might even create an all-new move for Primal Groudon specifically, with a huge BP but a significant drawback, similar to Flare Blitz.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire June 12th, 2014 9:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepperton (Post 8297574)
That's what I was referring to, haha. Kind of depressing when he gets a boost in Attack but can't utilize his new STAB typing because of a deficiency in physical Fire moves. Not sure, they might even create an all-new move for Primal Groudon specifically, with a huge BP but a significant drawback, similar to Flare Blitz.

Maybe it'll get a fire version of Earthquake with no drawback? It could be called Magma Flow.
Kyogre could get the same with a water version of Earthquake like Tsunami.

Leaf Magics June 12th, 2014 1:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Y2A_146 (Post 8297119)
Why would it need Sturdy? "Normal" Groudon's Drought still produces sunny weather on switch in so Solar Beam doesn't need to charge. Or am I wrong?
The only case I could think of where this doesn't work is when Kyogre (or another pokémon with Drizzle) enters after Groudon itself.

I've read that their Abilities could be upgraded when they Reverse. Since the sunlight that Drought summons can be removed by other Pokémon, maybe the upgraded Ability will give Groudon all the benefits of strong sunlight regardless of the current weather. Kyogre's Ability could be identical, but instead give all the benefits of rain to Kyogre, again regardless of current weather.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire June 12th, 2014 1:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leaf Magics (Post 8297884)
I've read that their Abilities could be upgraded when they Reverse. Since the sunlight that Drought summons can be removed by other Pokémon, maybe the upgraded Ability will give Groudon all the benefits of strong sunlight regardless of the current weather. Kyogre's Ability could be identical, but instead give all the benefits of rain to Kyogre, again regardless of current weather.

I wonder if they'll cancel each other out if they did that. Or will Rayquaza be the only one able to cancel out those abilities if they're made. You know they almost sound like the Auras of Xerneas and Yvetal...except with a weather bent. So I'll like to see my idea of them getting Aura abilites come true :3

antemortem June 12th, 2014 3:08 PM

Having Rayquaza's Air Lock be the only thing that could null their weather would be cool, in-game and competitively in the Uber tier. Or something more than "Air Lock," I guess, if that/Cloud Nine from regular Pokemon wouldn't be enough to put a stop to the permanent weather.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire June 12th, 2014 4:31 PM

I was looking at the official site just now in the mascots page, and saw this under Primal Groudon (image 4/9): "Spears of rock wrapped in magma stab out at the target! What move is this?!" Under Primal Kyogre (same image number) it says "What move is this?! The pillars of water that have been unleashed are assaulting the target!" That practically confirm that they'll get signature moves that have not been seen before! Finally my precious Weather Trio will have the signature moves they so deserve.

Oh I also found this nice tidbit on the top of Primal Groudon's part "Groudon has long been the heaviest of all known Pokémon. With its Primal Reversion, it smashes that record to pieces!"
For Primal Kyogre it's "When Kyogre undergoes Primal Reversion, it becomes Primal Kyogre, and the length of its body more than doubles!" Damn those things are massive! Actually that may be an understatement. Here's the link to the site if you don't have it: http://www.pokemonrubysapphire.com/en-us/pokemon/legendary-pokemon/primal-groudon-and-primal-kyogre

Oryx June 12th, 2014 4:35 PM

It's cute when they do little things like that. Like, I don't think anyone would care how long Kyogre is, but it's cute that they do!

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire June 12th, 2014 4:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oryx (Post 8298197)
It's cute when they do little things like that. Like, I don't think anyone would care how long Kyogre is, but it's cute that they do!

Yeah, seeing how body length doesn't affect any moves like weight does. I guess it's to talk about it since they mentioned Primal Groudon's weight, so it's to be fair :) Oh btw it's 32'01 in height, making it larger than Rayquaza even... I'm staring to wonder how long Primal Rayquaza was (well will be).

I think they should give Primal Groudon Heat Crash. After all it could use a physical fire move...massive over one ton thing lands on you...bones crack...one hit K.O.

Also they hinted at a connection between Primal Reversion (it's official English name) and Mega Evolution. From what they've said about Primal Reversion the one connection there is is that they both draw energy from the natural world. (Honestly I'm becoming more certain that Zygarde is the one behind Mega Evolution...or at least one of the forces.)

L0RD G3NGAR June 12th, 2014 5:07 PM

I wonder how Groudon and Kyogre lost there primal forms in the first place.

fenyx4 June 12th, 2014 6:07 PM

YESS, finally, after all of this "Atomic Regression" and Ancient Devolution" inconsistency/variable translating throughout the past week, we finally have an official name for the process (Primal Reversion)! I really like the name (and of course, anything with the -sion ending is practically cool by default! :P). As for the transformations themselves, I was really hoping that the English localizers would opt for the terms "Primeval Groudon/Kyogre" over "Primal Groudon/Kyogre", but whatever...I'll probably keep saying "Primeval" regardless. XD

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8298193)
I was looking at the official site just now in the mascots page, and saw this under Primal Groudon (image 4/9): "Spears of rock wrapped in magma stab out at the target! What move is this?!" Under Primal Kyogre (same image number) it says "What move is this?! The pillars of water that have been unleashed are assaulting the target!" That practically confirm that they'll get signature moves that have not been seen before! Finally my precious Weather Trio will have the signature moves they so deserve.

Oh I also found this nice tidbit on the top of Primal Groudon's part "Groudon has long been the heaviest of all known Pokémon. With its Primal Reversion, it smashes that record to pieces!"
For Primal Kyogre it's "When Kyogre undergoes Primal Reversion, it becomes Primal Kyogre, and the length of its body more than doubles!" Damn those things are massive! Actually that may be an understatement. Here's the link to the site if you don't have it: http://www.pokemonrubysapphire.com/en-us/pokemon/legendary-pokemon/primal-groudon-and-primal-kyogre

I hope Groudon gets some more physical Fire and Grass moves to use, though... I can't wait to see their potential signature moves; I'm surprised that they're receiving some so soon (I underestimated the Nintendo 3DS's patching ability, apparently; I can't wait to see how it's implemented..).

Also, they could at least let Groudon's Primally-Reverted form get to 1000 kilograms; 999.7 kilograms being 0.3 units away from a solid multiple of 10 just bothers me. XD

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8298211)
Also they hinted at a connection between Primal Reversion (it's official English name) and Mega Evolution. From what they've said about Primal Reversion the one connection there is is that they both draw energy from the natural world. (Honestly I'm becoming more certain that Zygarde is the one behind Mega Evolution...or at least one of the forces.)

Hmm; well, I wonder how they'll expand on that link..

Bobbylicious June 12th, 2014 6:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamebot (Post 8298229)
I wonder how Groudon and Kyogre lost there primal forms in the first place.

Probably by using their power to create land/sea or whatever they did

L0RD G3NGAR June 12th, 2014 6:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobdapeach (Post 8298290)
Probably by using their power to create land/sea or whatever they did

Possibly, or they were more powerful than Arceus, so he nerfed them. XD. Jk

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire June 12th, 2014 7:30 PM

I read that in order to stop the raging beasts the ancient people created the orbs after the legends went to sleep. I think it may be in RSE. If so then the orbs are probably the manifestation of the Power that was taken from them. It'll explain why the beast react to them. On the official site it said they wanted more power for themselves so they clashed. Perhaps that's why they reacted to the opposite colored orb in R/S, they wanted that power. It also explains why having the orbs in HGSS summons them, it's probably similar to how the opposite Lati attacked in HGSS in order to get the Soul Dew. In other words they want their power back, and that of the legendary too...

Iceshadow3317 June 12th, 2014 7:59 PM

I think the orbs and the Soul Dew may be the mega stones for these pokemon. It makes sense, at least to me. And regardless, if they change during battle, I will still consider them Megas even though the are different.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire June 12th, 2014 8:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman3317 (Post 8298397)
I think the orbs and the Soul Dew may be the mega stones for these pokemon. It makes sense, at least to me. And regardless, if they change during battle, I will still consider them Megas even though the are different.

The animation was also similar, except it was red and blue instead of black (anyone else noticed that Megas in Hoenn have a black, instead of the white colored animation from XY?). Also perhaps Maxie and Archie's mega items will be used on them to "Primal Reversion" them.
I do wonder if it's the orbs if they'll get rid of Magma/Aqua returning the orb scene and apoligizing to the eldery couple at Mt. Pyre.

Y2A_Alkis June 12th, 2014 9:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamebot (Post 8298229)
I wonder how Groudon and Kyogre lost there primal forms in the first place.

My guess is, after their legendary battle in their respective primal forms, they fell asleep (like various dex entries say), but after being reawakened prematurely with the red/blue orbs they haven't gathered their normal strength yet, i.e. they had to sleep way longer to recover all of it.
Now with the mega stones they get this strength back, although only for the duration of a battle.

antemortem June 12th, 2014 9:44 PM

Maybe they'll transform while holding it, like Giratina and the Griseous Orb. So the entire time they're holding the item, they'll be in their reverted forme. The fact it's their natural energy being tapped into makes only lasting one battle after manually being called to transform (meaning they would revert and could be battled with outside of this form in another battle like regular Mega Evolution) is an inconsistent concept to me.

Leaf Magics June 12th, 2014 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8298375)
I read that in order to stop the raging beasts the ancient people created the orbs after the legends went to sleep. I think it may be in RSE. If so then the orbs are probably the manifestation of the Power that was taken from them. It'll explain why the beast react to them. On the official site it said they wanted more power for themselves so they clashed. Perhaps that's why they reacted to the opposite colored orb in R/S, they wanted that power. It also explains why having the orbs in HGSS summons them, it's probably similar to how the opposite Lati attacked in HGSS in order to get the Soul Dew. In other words they want their power back, and that of the legendary too...

I like this. There are many things to consider.

At least in Emerald, the legend does not mention where the Orbs came from. If they were created by the ancient people, I think they would have to be containers for their power, rather than manifestations of it.

In Ruby and Sapphire, I remember that both Orbs do something to the legendary Pokémon. One of them (the one the version's team steals) awakens it, and the other does something else. Remember that we obtain the Orb that our version's team doesn't steal and then it shines when we approach the legendary Pokémon; it is after that happens that it battles us. I don't remember (if it is stated) what our Orb does to it.

And who knows, in Emerald the Orbs may have become inert after Team Aqua and Magma used them. After Rayquaza stops Groudon and Kyogre's fight, the legend told at Mt. Pyre changes to mention that Rayquaza stopped the battle, but the Orbs are no longer mentioned. Also, they are not required to battle Groudon or Kyogre when we find them later in their caves. It may be that the Orbs only contained the power that Groudon and Kyogre needed to reawaken, and if so, their Primal Reversion may have to be triggered by some other object.

The official site mentions that they got their Primal forms by absorbing nature's energy, and that in the time when they first transformed, the world was overflowing with that energy. Maybe in the present day nature's energy is not as strong, and what they need to achieve Primal Reversion is something that helps them gather enough of nature's energy from around them to temporarily activate it.

Salzorrah June 12th, 2014 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamebot (Post 8298229)
I wonder how Groudon and Kyogre lost there primal forms in the first place.

Darwinian Evolution. As time passed, they got weaker, but still be considered Legendary. Kinda like Magikarp being the strongest Pokemon then Darwinian Evolution happened, it is weak af now.

L0RD G3NGAR June 13th, 2014 5:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avant Garde (Post 8298596)
Darwinian Evolution. As time passed, they got weaker, but still be considered Legendary. Kinda like Magikarp being the strongest Pokemon then Darwinian Evolution happened, it is weak af now.


Yes, but even tho things get weaker, they tend to be smarter or can do things they couldn't before. I'm sure there is something else that contributed

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire June 13th, 2014 9:15 AM

I think it's a combination of time and their power being drained/locked by the ancient people. After all the ancients of Hoenn did managed to lock up Regigigas which has power near the level of modern Groudon and Kyogre. Hey Regigigas should get a Primal Reversion too since it seems rusted...

Well Groudon lost it's 4x weakness against Kyogre... other than that they lost more than they could've gained...

Pepperton June 13th, 2014 11:21 AM

From the official ORAS website, it's stated that both Primal Groudon and Kyogre receive boosts to their abilities. Currently, the new forms have them listed as '???' but the website says to look out for further details regarding the hidden power of the Primal forms. Exciting stuff! :] What do you guys think these new abilities will entail?

Leaf Magics June 13th, 2014 1:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepperton (Post 8299308)
From the official ORAS website, it's stated that both Primal Groudon and Kyogre receive boosts to their abilities. Currently, the new forms have them listed as '???' but the website says to look out for further details regarding the hidden power of the Primal forms. Exciting stuff! :] What do you guys think these new abilities will entail?

Well I already said it, but:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leaf Magics (Post 8297884)
I've read that their Abilities could be upgraded when they Reverse. Since the sunlight that Drought summons can be removed by other Pokémon, maybe the upgraded Ability will give Groudon all the benefits of strong sunlight regardless of the current weather. Kyogre's Ability could be identical, but instead give all the benefits of rain to Kyogre, again regardless of current weather.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8299162)
I think it's a combination of time and their power being drained/locked by the ancient people. After all the ancients of Hoenn did managed to lock up Regigigas which has power near the level of modern Groudon and Kyogre. Hey Regigigas should get a Primal Reversion too since it seems rusted...

Well Groudon lost it's 4x weakness against Kyogre... other than that they lost more than they could've gained...

So, do you think it could it be like I said? Maybe my previous post was a bit unfocused. In summary, perhaps the ancients locked Groudon and Kyogre's "waking" power inside the Orbs, which put them into their sleep. Then over time nature's energy weakened, and now, after they reawaken by recovering their "waking" power from the Orbs, they would need some object to help them concentrate the less abundant natural energy into them to Primal Reverse temporarily.

And I forgot to mention this in my previous post, but Rayquaza possibly forced Groudon and Kyogre to stop fighting various times during early history. I think each time Rayquaza stopped them, they may have lost their Primal forms temporarily. It would have been shortly after one of these occasions that the ancients managed to send Groudon and Kyogre into a slumber by sealing their remaining power in the Orbs.

Iceshadow3317 June 13th, 2014 3:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antemortem (Post 8298511)
Maybe they'll transform while holding it, like Giratina and the Griseous Orb. So the entire time they're holding the item, they'll be in their reverted forme. The fact it's their natural energy being tapped into makes only lasting one battle after manually being called to transform (meaning they would revert and could be battled with outside of this form in another battle like regular Mega Evolution) is an inconsistent concept to me.

If I am not mistaking, one of the videos showed them transforming during the battle. Much like Megas. Serebii also said Primal Reversion acts as Megas.


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