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-   -   6th Gen Primal Reversion Discussion & Speculation Thread (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=325811)

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 2nd, 2014 7:51 PM

Wonder how the original Dragon may have looked...

Bulbapedia mentioned that the orbs were used to lock the power of the legends but that may be a fan theory. Wouldn't be surprised if true.

Iceshadow3317 July 2nd, 2014 7:57 PM

I would like to point out something really quick. But before I do, Bulbapedia does say it is unrelated, but I do not think it is 100% unrelated.

There was a Primal Dialga in Mystery Dungeon: Time and Darkness. And it follows similar to what we know about Primal Groudon and Kyogre. It is said Primal Dialga came to be when it lost control of its power. Similar to how Groudon and Kyogre were in a berserker state. So, I am going to take back what I said about Primal being in the past, because it might not be so. But I will keep it in mind. (Also not that the coloring follows the same pattern. Primal Dialga keeps the original state, but the colors change similar to Primal Groudon and Kyogre.)

Leaf Magics July 2nd, 2014 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman3317 (Post 8327894)
This is from serebii.

"A new feature introduced in Pokémon Omega Ruby & Alpha Sapphire is Primal/Primal/Primeval Pokémon. These Pokémon seem to work in a similar manner to Mega Evolution through a process called Primal Reversion, and sends the Pokémon back to their Primal state. Full details on this feature are not known."

The lore I quoted was from the official site; Serebii is a fan site. Besides, Serebii seems to be outdated about Primal Reversion in that quote, since they have already been confirmed to be called Primal Pokémon, not Primeval, which Serebii still lists as a possible name for them.

Quote:

And no, I was saying they could give something to Black or White Kyruem just to do a primal reversion, meaning it goes back to how it was in the past. This would bring the complete dragon.

I think nature's energy was the power that Arceus gave them and then when they got out of control, the people made something to lock their power away.

All right, then I'll stick to my theory.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8327901)
Bulbapedia mentioned that the orbs were used to lock the power of the legends but that may be a fan theory. Wouldn't be surprised if true.

The actual legend is as follows:

Quote:

It happened long, long ago...
The world was wracked by a ferocious clash between the Pokémon of the land and the Pokémon of the sea...
The Pokémon of the land raised mountains and created continents...
The Pokémon of the sea raised huge waves and carved out oceans...
Their fierce duel raged without end.
The world was engulfed in massive infernos and vicious storms.
The Blue Orb and the Red Orb brought an end to the calamity.
Light poured from the two Orbs and becalmed the enraged adversaries.
The pair, made docile, dove deep into the sea where eventually they disappeared...

It doesn't directly state that the powers of Groudon and Kyogre were locked within the Orbs. I'm pretty sure that part is actually fanon as you said, but in my opinion it is quite reasonable.

We know the Orbs stopped Groudon and Kyogre from fighting, and we also know that they awakened them many years later, when they were stolen and separated. Would it be unreasonable to think that these things happened because the Orbs absorbed their power (which would have made them unable to keep fighting) and then released it when they were brought close to the Pokémon thousands of years later (which would have awakened them)?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman3317 (Post 8327910)
I would like to point out something really quick. But before I do, Bulbapedia does say it is unrelated, but I do not think it is 100% unrelated.

There was a Primal Dialga in Mystery Dungeon: Time and Darkness. And it follows similar to what we know about Primal Groudon and Kyogre. It is said Primal Dialga came to be when it lost control of its power. Similar to how Groudon and Kyogre were in a berserker state. So, I am going to take back what I said about Primal being in the past, because it might not be so. But I will keep it in mind. (Also not that the coloring follows the same pattern. Primal Dialga keeps the original state, but the colors change similar to Primal Groudon and Kyogre.)

I do not remember the exact story, but I definitely remember that in Dialga's case it was Darkrai's doing: Darkrai did something to corrupt Dialga, and Dialga was losing its reason. Groudon and Kyogre' transformation happened because they absorbed natural energy from the world, which as far as I know simply made them more powerful. So I must disagree - I think that they are unrelated, that they are different processes and that the Pokémon just happen to share names.

antemortem July 2nd, 2014 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman3317 (Post 8327910)
There was a Primal Dialga in Mystery Dungeon: Time and Darkness. And it follows similar to what we know about Primal Groudon and Kyogre. It is said Primal Dialga came to be when it lost control of its power. Similar to how Groudon and Kyogre were in a berserker state. So, I am going to take back what I said about Primal being in the past, because it might not be so. But I will keep it in mind. (Also not that the coloring follows the same pattern. Primal Dialga keeps the original state, but the colors change similar to Primal Groudon and Kyogre.)

But when Kyogre and Groudon were in a "berserk state," as you put it, and fighting each other they were not in Primal form. I don't imagine that they lost control of their power in their Primal formes before but rather they were too powerful for their surroundings and had their power sealed by Rayquaza and hence it's now being unlocked. I'm going to continue harping on my disbelief that Primal Dialga is related all that closely.

Pinta77 July 2nd, 2014 11:47 PM

I'm quite curious. I'd be really happy if it was a seperate Pokemon all together. Like I could get a primal groudon and a regular groudon. but i doubt it =/

Salzorrah July 2nd, 2014 11:50 PM

I'm pretty sure that is impossible considering Primal Reversion works similarly to Mega Evolution.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 3rd, 2014 7:49 AM

So how deep do you guys think they'll explore Primal Reversion? More than Mega Evolution? Or less?

Pepperton July 3rd, 2014 5:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinta77 (Post 8328139)
I'm quite curious. I'd be really happy if it was a seperate Pokemon all together. Like I could get a primal groudon and a regular groudon. but i doubt it =/

Right now, there's isn't much confirmed about Primal Reversion, other than Kyogre and Groudon being able to undergo it. However, using logical reasoning, we can deduct from the ORAS official website that it does work similarly to Mega evolution in that it is a form change only occurring during battle. Several things point to this being the case, such as this quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Primal Reversion Page
What kind of power lies in this newly revealed transformation known as Primal Reversion? And what is the connection between Primal Reversion and Mega Evolution?

Calling it a "transformation" as well as connecting it to Mega evolution are telling factors. Also, as is shown in this screenshot, Kyogre has a symbol next to its name when it reverts to its Primal form, similar to the symbol that appears next to a Pokemon's name when they Mega evolve.

I hope they explain it in detail, possibly even make it the main focal point of the remakes' story line, like what they did with X and Y and mega evolution. Can easily be rooted in with the existing Hoenn plot, as it still does have to deal with the Weather trio. Can see Steven and maybe Roxanne being involved in it, especially due to Roxanne's gym redesign. o:

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 3rd, 2014 8:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepperton (Post 8329231)
Right now, there's isn't much confirmed about Primal Reversion, other than Kyogre and Groudon being able to undergo it. However, using logical reasoning, we can deduct from the ORAS official website that it does work similarly to Mega evolution in that it is a form change only occurring during battle. Several things point to this being the case, such as this quote:



Calling it a "transformation" as well as connecting it to Mega evolution are telling factors. Also, as is shown in this screenshot, Kyogre has a symbol next to its name when it reverts to its Primal form, similar to the symbol that appears next to a Pokemon's name when they Mega evolve.

I hope they explain it in detail, possibly even make it the main focal point of the remakes' story line, like what they did with X and Y and mega evolution. Can easily be rooted in with the existing Hoenn plot, as it still does have to deal with the Weather trio. Can see Steven and maybe Roxanne being involved in it, especially due to Roxanne's gym redesign. o:

Roxanne being involved would be interesting to see. Actually any gym leader and/or E4 would as we didn't see them outside of their gyms much, if at all. I like it how the addition to the story of Primal Evolution has given Steven a larger role in the story as his role was rather minimal in RSE.

Salzorrah July 3rd, 2014 11:37 PM

Roxanne does fit the bill all too nicely considering she's the gym leader of Rustboro, where you'll find the HQ of Devon, and the obvious thing that she is a Rock type Gym Leader.

Pepperton July 4th, 2014 7:51 AM

In Unova, a lot of the gym leaders were pretty involved in the plot, like Lenora and Burgh, and Roxanne could end up having a similar role in ORAS with the whole Primal Reversion story. Can't think of many others that could become more relevant in the remakes, based on what we currently know. Subject to change in the future as we get more information about Primal Reversion.

Nah July 4th, 2014 8:33 AM

They'd probably have Steven handle Primal Reversion as well as Mega Evolution for story purposes, since the two have their similarities, and Steven's getting much more involved in the story it seems, so why not throw Primal Reversion in there as well?

I would like it if the Gym Leaders became more involved in the story though.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 4th, 2014 8:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Salt&PepperDiner (Post 8329962)
They'd probably have Steven handle Primal Reversion as well as Mega Evolution for story purposes, since the two have their similarities, and Steven's getting much more involved in the story it seems, so why not throw Primal Reversion in there as well?

I would like it if the Gym Leaders became more involved in the story though.

He was shown studying the cave painting in the trailer so chances are high he will investigate it.

Salzorrah July 5th, 2014 2:16 AM

I feel Roxanne has a much more indepth connection, when it comes to the gym leaders. Maybe Brawly coz he is near from Granite Cave, or Juan and/or Wallace, since they are near the Cave of Origin.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 5th, 2014 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leijon (Post 8331150)
I feel Roxanne has a much more indepth connection, when it comes to the gym leaders. Maybe Brawly coz he is near from Granite Cave, or Juan and/or Wallace, since they are near the Cave of Origin.

I agree, those and probably Phoebe from the E4 along with Steven will likely be the ones most connected to Primal evolutions, or Megas, or both.

Leaf Magics July 9th, 2014 6:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8328477)
So how deep do you guys think they'll explore Primal Reversion? More than Mega Evolution? Or less?

I hope we get a good amount of lore on it during the story. They could reveal most of the information about it, as well as Primal Reversion itself, during the Sootopolis crisis, and then let us get some optional lore about it after stopping Groudon and Kyogre, or after beating the Pokémon League.

We could also slowly discover some things about it as as we progress through the game, partial explanations that become clearer with each thing we find out. Then, when we see the legendary Pokémon transform, we may get the most important part and be able to form a mostly clear explanation on it. I think I would like this better.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 9th, 2014 8:19 PM

Speaking of information I wouldn't mind if we were given a journal to write what we discover about Primal Reversion similar to the Unown journal in HGSS.
I imagine we'll learn more post- league if Rayquaza gets one like a lot of us (if not all) are expecting. Maybe even have the emerald story told but in Primal Reversion style.

Leaf Magics July 10th, 2014 9:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8340392)
Speaking of information I wouldn't mind if we were given a journal to write what we discover about Primal Reversion similar to the Unown journal in HGSS.
I imagine we'll learn more post- league if Rayquaza gets one like a lot of us (if not all) are expecting. Maybe even have the emerald story told but in Primal Reversion style.

Ah yes, I liked completing the Unown Report. It would be nice to have something similar for Primal Reversion that gets filled as we progress in the games, though I'll transcribe anything important I find anyway.

I don't know how they would fit the Emerald story in the remakes. Do you think we could get all three weather legendaries in each game if they did that? I think a post-game sidequest would work great for giving us extra lore on Primal Reversion and perhaps for catching Rayquaza and getting its Reversion item if it needs one.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 10th, 2014 9:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leaf Magics (Post 8341324)
Ah yes, I liked completing the Unown Report. It would be nice to have something similar for Primal Reversion that gets filled as we progress in the games, though I'll transcribe anything important I find anyway.

I don't know how they would fit the Emerald story in the remakes. Do you think we could get all three weather legendaries in each game if they did that? I think a post-game sidequest would work great for giving us extra lore on Primal Reversion and perhaps for catching Rayquaza and getting its Reversion item if it needs one.

I think that post-E4 sidequest will be it too. Perhaps we'll need both Groudon and Kyogre with their items in our party along with Rayquaza in order to get it's Primal form. What if they make it that we can't get Rayquaza without both like in HGSS? That'll be kind of mean of them, but it could work nicely for a post-E4 story. Like Rayquaza reacts to the presence of the other two with their Primal items on hand and flies off Sky Pillar. Then we have to go find it, and see that it has it's own Primal item on it in which it then proceeds to attack us...

Leaf Magics July 10th, 2014 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8341338)
I think that post-E4 sidequest will be it too. Perhaps we'll need both Groudon and Kyogre with their items in our party along with Rayquaza in order to get it's Primal form. What if they make it that we can't get Rayquaza without both like in HGSS? That'll be kind of mean of them, but it could work nicely for a post-E4 story. Like Rayquaza reacts to the presence of the other two with their Primal items on hand and flies off Sky Pillar. Then we have to go find it, and see that it has it's own Primal item on it in which it then proceeds to attack us...

Hmm, how about a multiplayer event that requires Alpha Sapphire linking with Omega Ruby to unlock Rayquaza's story? I think they did something similar with Black 2 and White 2, but it required linking with the prequels instead.

Perhaps this event could set the opposite legendary free, make our own legendary react, and cause Rayquaza to appear. The question would be like before, should that allow us to get the opposing legendary as well as Rayquaza?

Maybe something like this should be done just to unlock Rayquaza's Primal item, and possibly let us catch the other legendary; the regular Rayquaza would still be normally available.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 10th, 2014 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leaf Magics (Post 8341370)
Hmm, how about a multiplayer event that requires Alpha Sapphire linking with Omega Ruby to unlock Rayquaza's story? I think they did something similar with Black 2 and White 2, but it required linking with the prequels instead.

Perhaps this event could set the opposite legendary free, make our own legendary react, and cause Rayquaza to appear. The question would be like before, should that allow us to get the opposing legendary as well as Rayquaza?

Maybe something like this should be done just to unlock Rayquaza's Primal item, and possibly let us catch the other legendary; the regular Rayquaza would still be normally available.

Perhaps it should be all three. The opposite legend could maybe wake up after the E4. Perhaps we're told to bring our mascot with us to fight it. Then things get out of hand and we can't control our mascot (similar to a theory I mentioned earlier here) forcing us to get Primal Rayquaza down from Sky Pillar. Or perhaps Rayquaza will just intercept our mascot and the other member without our's needing to go wild, or us having to go get it from Sky Pillar. After that we can get normal Rayquaza. To get the Primal we may need the other legend's Primal item like you said to unlock Rayquaza's item.

Pepperton July 15th, 2014 3:43 PM

If Rayquaza does get a Primal form, what do you guys think its stats will be? Will it get a new typing, or a new ability, or maybe both? For me, I think it'll get more speed and attack, and I'm pretty confident its type will remain Dragon/Flying. Not sure about its ability though!

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 15th, 2014 3:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepperton (Post 8351850)
If Rayquaza does get a Primal form, what do you guys think its stats will be? Will it get a new typing, or a new ability, or maybe both? For me, I think it'll get more speed and attack, and I'm pretty confident its type will remain Dragon/Flying. Not sure about its ability though!

Also think they'll boost both of it's attack stats and a little boost to speed. The reason I say this is because normal Rayquaza has the same base attack stat as normal Groudon and the same base special attack stat as Kyogre. Since Primal Groudon is getting a boost in attack and Primal Kyogre a boost in special attack one would think Primal Rayquaza would get a boost in both to keep the balance in tact.
I think it may stay the same or have one of it's two types replaced by Electric. If it becomes Dragon/Electric I see it getting Levitate as an ability. That way it won't be affected by Primal Groudon's Ground moves, and resist Primal Groudon's fire and Primal Kyogre's water moves, thus keeping the dominant one among the trio aspect. In a way it'll be the reverse of Zygarde's relationship with it's trio as Zygarde's ground attacks don't hurt Yvetal while it's weak (along with Yvetal) to Xerneas' Fairy moves.

Now if it's Electric/Flying or no type change I see it gaining an ability that'll break the other two's abilities.

L0RD G3NGAR July 16th, 2014 10:02 AM

Well, what created the red and blue orb? And I'm pretty sure that the orb stores there power as there primal form would be there original forms at full power

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 16th, 2014 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamebot (Post 8353092)
Well, what created the red and blue orb? And I'm pretty sure that the orb stores there power as there primal form would be there original forms at full power

I think it might've been the ancient People of Hoenn who created them. Just like how they stopped Regigigas and hid it far away they probably made sure should the legends wake up they'll have a way to control them. Of course their plan backfired seeing how they were misused by the likes of Magma and Aqua.


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