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-   -   Other Why are there so many FireRed Hacks? (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=330145)

SuperEspeon June 29th, 2014 8:34 PM

Why are there so many FireRed Hacks?
 
I've noticed a strong abundance of FireRed hacks. Any particular reasons that this game is so esteemed by the hacking community?

DJTiki June 29th, 2014 8:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperEspeon (Post 8323799)
I've noticed a strong abundance of FireRed hacks. Any particular reasons that this game is so esteemed by the hacking community?

One, is that it is relatively easy to understand, nothing too complicated about it :3
Also there are a numerical amount of Research and tools which are supported by FireRed(for instance Mr.DollSteak's Rom Base)
And its good for anyone who wants to fully understand Rom Hacking :)
But it ain't no thang.

Trainer 781 June 29th, 2014 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Sneasel (Post 8254759)


"Well, I don't mean to be a bug on your shoulder, but you see what FR is capable of?:
http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=302476
http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=293704
http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=267584
http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=298934
http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=240183
http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=257647
http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=301711
http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=206197
http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=304077
http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=291023
http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=246740
And the best of them all:
http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=194241

I used to be a Ruby hacker, but I then I realized that even though RSE were good games, on the inside they aren't. You know?
I've never even played FR (nor will I) but still. You can change FR into Ruby by appearance if you wanted (and very easily).
So RSE aren't as great as they seem. I don't want you to change, but think about it. Plus, not everyone carries Sapphire ROMs. I've seen before that people are attracted to the hack, just that it's Sapphire or Leaf Green, and they don't play it for that reason alone."
-gogojjtech



This sums up it all.

Fire Red is the most researched engine and the code in the ROM is organized as compared to other ROMs.

HoennTM July 7th, 2014 10:04 AM

It's quite simple to use FireRed because there are many hacking tools. There are a lot of very famous old FireRed hacks such as Shiny Gold or Liquid Crystal. This inspired many people. That may have had something to do with it.

BrandoSheriff July 7th, 2014 2:23 PM

Yeah, that's pretty much it. FireRed's the most researched and documented, effectively making it the easiest to hack. It's supported by an abundance of tools and patches (such as JPAN's hacked engine and MrDollSteak's rombase) that make life easier because of this, making it a perfect base for one's first rom hack.

Zeturic July 7th, 2014 3:49 PM

Saying that FR is documented / has tools is not really an answer. The reason why FR has so many tools and is so heavily researched is because it is so heavily hacked, not the other way around. I suppose it is the reason why it's unlikely for that to ever change, but still.

JosefigGaming July 8th, 2014 6:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagiri (Post 8335962)
Saying that FR is documented / has tools is not really an answer. The reason why FR has so many tools and is so heavily researched is because it is so heavily hacked, not the other way around. I suppose it is the reason why it's unlikely for that to ever change, but still.

Actually, bot of the arguments complete each other
Someone started hacking firered, so they made tools, and because the tools existed, someone made a firered hack himself, with the growing existence of hacks, more tools were needed, and so on
It's pretty basic stuff, it's how money works
I buy something from you, so you can have money to buy something from me, so I can have money to buy something from you, and we're all happy 'cause we all buy what we need, so there's no need to stop the cycle, therefore, it's hard that it will
However, unlike money, even if people stop hackinf firered, the tools will all still be around, so it will easily stand back up on it's feet

Zeturic July 8th, 2014 7:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JosefigGaming (Post 8336991)
Actually, bot of the arguments complete each other
Someone started hacking firered, so they made tools, and because the tools existed, someone made a firered hack himself, with the growing existence of hacks, more tools were needed, and so on
It's pretty basic stuff, it's how money works
I buy something from you, so you can have money to buy something from me, so I can have money to buy something from you, and we're all happy 'cause we all buy what we need, so there's no need to stop the cycle, therefore, it's hard that it will
However, unlike money, even if people stop hackinf firered, the tools will all still be around, so it will easily stand back up on it's feet

Exactly. I pointed out that it is unlikely to change - it's too cyclic. The more people hack it, the more people explore the ROM. And, as people hack it, more people explore the ROM.

However, the cycle started somewhere.

As you yourself stated:

Quote:

Originally Posted by JosefigGaming (Post 8336991)
Someone started hacking firered

And that is the person I'm talking about.

At that point in time, there would be no (or extremely minimal) documentation on any of the ROMs. There would be no pragmatic reasons to choose, say, FR over LG, as they are essentially the same game.

JosefigGaming July 8th, 2014 7:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagiri (Post 8337005)
And that is the person I'm talking about.

At that point in time, there would be no (or extremely minimal) documentation on any of the ROMs. There would be no pragmatic reasons to choose, say, FR over LG, as they are essentially the same game.

Well, either
a. He decided to use firered 'cause why not?
b. FireRed was his favorite game so he decided to start on that one over the others
c. He tried both but FireRed seemed easier because the engine is more organised or whatever :P

Christos July 8th, 2014 11:33 AM

It just kind of happens when there's two games, usually the first of the two is the most common to be hacked, and is better documented. So people prefer Ruby over Sapphire (and Emerald over the two) and Fire Red over Leaf Green.

Now, I don't know the reason Fire Red is more popular than Ruby/Emerald, but back when I started ROM Hacking and R/S/E hacks were more common, I started from Ruby and then switched to Emerald because it had more features, and then switched to Fire Red because I preferred its graphical style much more than R/S/E's, there were more FR/LG style resources. I remember things like heavy graphics editing weren't really common, and there weren't tools to edit door animations, so I just went with Fire Red.

BrandoSheriff July 9th, 2014 1:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christos (Post 8337430)
It just kind of happens when there's two games, usually the first of the two is the most common to be hacked, and is better documented. So people prefer Ruby over Sapphire (and Emerald over the two) and Fire Red over Leaf Green.

Now, I don't know the reason Fire Red is more popular than Ruby/Emerald, but back when I started ROM Hacking and R/S/E hacks were more common, I started from Ruby and then switched to Emerald because it had more features, and then switched to Fire Red because I preferred its graphical style much more than R/S/E's, there were more FR/LG style resources. I remember things like heavy graphics editing weren't really common, and there weren't tools to edit door animations, so I just went with Fire Red.

This was me as well, and it was why I chose FireRed for my first hack (that I'm still working on lol). I also started on Ruby, but moved to FireRed because the things I were attempting to do weren't documented anywhere and were too ambitious in a Ruby rom at the time, but were a lot easier to do in FR. Though IMO, R/S/E has better music in general, and support for Emerald (which isn't that unstable from my experiences) is larger now than it was back then. Maybe I'll move to Emerald for a 2nd rom hack. xD

Jacrad July 9th, 2014 1:27 AM

Yeah. It's kind of interesting that more people didn't base their hacks off of Emerald. You'd think Emerald would be slightly more robust and offer a sprinkling of extra features to take advantage of. Besides, isn't Emerald built off of FireRed to begin with?

Astraea July 10th, 2014 3:39 AM

Most hacks are of Fire red, Cause Fire red rom is the easiest to hack and settle, with so many tools and tutorials!

SirCharmander July 10th, 2014 8:42 PM

Probably the easiest. Can't imagine trying to do one over emerald base

BrandoSheriff July 10th, 2014 9:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyanosis (Post 8338708)
Yeah. It's kind of interesting that more people didn't base their hacks off of Emerald. You'd think Emerald would be slightly more robust and offer a sprinkling of extra features to take advantage of. Besides, isn't Emerald built off of FireRed to begin with?

Don't quote me on this (I'm not capable of checking Emerald in Sappy atm), but I believe that Emerald also has FR/LG's music in its code along with R/S's, so I think that's true.

Due to having more features than the other bases, Emerald truly would be the superior one once we can do just as much to it as FireRed. Maybe after I finish my project I'll look into some of these things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirCharmander (Post 8342514)
Probably the easiest. Can't imagine trying to do one over emerald base

It's not entirely out of the realm of possibility to do a rom hack of Emerald. Pokemon Flora Sky is a good example.

SirCharmander July 10th, 2014 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkrai Lv.1000 (Post 8342576)
Don't quote me on this (I'm not capable of checking Emerald in Sappy atm), but I believe that Emerald also has FR/LG's music in its code along with R/S's, so I think that's true.

Due to having more features than the other bases, Emerald truly would be the superior one once we can do just as much to it as FireRed. Maybe after I finish my project I'll look into some of these things.



It's not entirely out of the realm of possibility to do a rom hack of Emerald. Pokemon Flora Sky is a good example.

Yeah there's a few of them actually, glazed, flora sky, crystal dust etc but I always imagined it to be much more challeging than any other rom base

DoesntKnowHowToPlay July 11th, 2014 6:58 AM

The deal with Emerald is mostly in its free space. A number of tools (most prominently A-Map) were built under the assumption that Emerald's free space is the same as Ruby's. This wouldn't be a problem, were it not for the fact that it uses 00 free space, and much of the new data occupying what was Ruby's free space is sound data. Instruments have a lot of 00 space, which A-Map will happily put data in if you let it repoint without asking for an offset, causing the music to break horribly and naive romhackers to write Emerald off as "unstable".

This in turn has led to a lot of recent research being aimed towards FR, as nobody wanted to deal with that noise. For a long while, information on stuff like custom moves and animations was strictly FR only unless you were quite savvy and willing to work with both. This cycle was somewhat cyclic and arguably still is, although there are quite a few resources emerging for Emerald lately.

BrandoSheriff July 11th, 2014 2:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoesntKnowHowToPlay (Post 8343085)
The deal with Emerald is mostly in its free space. A number of tools (most prominently A-Map) were built under the assumption that Emerald's free space is the same as Ruby's. This wouldn't be a problem, were it not for the fact that it uses 00 free space, and much of the new data occupying what was Ruby's free space is sound data. Instruments have a lot of 00 space, which A-Map will happily put data in if you let it repoint without asking for an offset, causing the music to break horribly and naive romhackers to write Emerald off as "unstable".

This in turn has led to a lot of recent research being aimed towards FR, as nobody wanted to deal with that noise. For a long while, information on stuff like custom moves and animations was strictly FR only unless you were quite savvy and willing to work with both. This cycle was somewhat cyclic and arguably still is, although there are quite a few resources emerging for Emerald lately.

I knew that people wrongly claimed Emerald was unstable, I just never knew why. That 00 free space thing is pretty bizarre, considering it also has FF free space. Thanks for explaining why, now I know why I sometimes hear those little "beep" noises in some Emerald hacks.

Cloudfury July 12th, 2014 2:50 PM

Sure Firered is easier to hack, but Emerald has dive, contests, berries, battle animations, battle frontier, the Verdanturf Town micrograss, etc. With all those cool features I really don't know why people prefer Firered. Maybe it's a new trend?

.Missingno July 12th, 2014 3:44 PM

from my previous experience (from years ago) it was alot easier to understand.

JosefigGaming July 12th, 2014 4:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloudfury (Post 8345638)
Sure Firered is easier to hack, but Emerald has dive, contests, berries, battle animations, battle frontier, the Verdanturf Town micrograss, etc. With all those cool features I really don't know why people prefer Firered. Maybe it's a new trend?

All those things you pointed out are the reason many people are leaning towards Emerald now.
There's even a thread on the Research and Development sub-Forum for Emerald only.
I really hope Emerald hacking becomes a thing because I personaly hate how Ruby looks.
Not just the tiles, the layout of the boxes (like in the menu or text boxes) and the sprites, it's just hard to get used to it.

~Anbuja July 12th, 2014 4:35 PM

Saying that Firered is the easiest to hack, is in my opinion wrong.

Why Firered is used the most is probably that Firered was the luckiest of them all, and a little bit because of the hackers afterwards.

As JosefigGaming stated someone just prefered Firered at that time when a tool was build over the others.
So people who made other tools obviously took firered into account more.

And when JPAN made the hacked engine, off course that everyone would support it so that they're name could be in the credits section.

I mean Jambo or anyone else wouldnt have expanded the Pokedex of firered if Jpan's engine was for Emerald.

Darthatron would never have animated Firereds titlescreen, if say everyone was at that time hacking leafgreen over the other ROM's.

Mr.Dollsteak would never made that rombase for firered, almost everything was supporting Ruby.

Im not saying that people made tools, or anything just for the fame, off course someone needed some knowledge in ASM for the school or anything else etc.

But it is a fact, that people who created anything for the ROM's, wanted as many people to use the work they did(Whats the point in creating anything if noone will appreciate it?).
And since Firered was just lucky there, they went with it.

This thread could be called "Why are there so many *insertyourgbaPokemongamehere* Hacks" if it was lucky back then.

TheCurryGuy July 13th, 2014 4:37 AM

ITS cause there are so many tools for it and it is easy to hack

Bulbadon July 14th, 2014 4:37 PM

EDIT: I found out you can use Advance Text for RSE. Damn noob.

Danny0317 July 14th, 2014 4:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bulbadon (Post 8349800)
One major reason many people use Firered is because you can edit the text in Firered very easily using Advance Text which you cannot do with Emerald/Ruby/Sapphire.

You most definitely can use Advance Text for RSE, I myself use it only for decapitalization stuff in Emerald.

Bulbadon July 14th, 2014 5:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Sneasel (Post 8349814)
You most definitely can use Advance Text for RSE, I myself use it only for decapitalization stuff in Emerald.

Oh I see. The Advance Text I use might be configured only for Pokemon Firered as I have always used XSE for Pokemon RSE and when I try to open Emerald with the Advance Text I got nothing appears.

PokemonMaster1111 July 14th, 2014 8:15 PM

because its easy to hack it

JosefigGaming July 15th, 2014 3:48 PM

I believe this thread has become post after post of "Because it has more research into it"


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