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The new and improved Hoenn Dex! Now with 20% more awesomeness :33
We know that we had a fair share of 202 Pokemon in the local Hoenn Dex. That itself is pretty large considering it is 202/386 total Pokemon. Do you think that we will get more additions to the Hoenn Dex? Will some get removed? What do you think will the total number of Pokemon will be available in the game?
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The title miss led me into thinking an addition to the Hoenn dex was confirmed xD.
I doubt any will be removed. I hope that just the Gen 4 pre-evos and evos to Hoenn dex Pokòmon are added and I'll be happy with it. I wouldn't mind it staying the same like Kanto's dex did either. |
In X and Y you can transfer pokemon that aren't in the Costal/Mountain/The other one Kalos pokedex at the start of the game before you get the national dex, so IMO it doesn't matter how much there will be.
But I do think pokemon such as Gallade/Froslass will be in it as that would make sense. Any new pokemon getting a Mega that was not originally in the R/S Pokedex should be added (not sure about Diance though). And personally I hope pokemon that were not available/catch-able/obtainable without pokebank (other than legendaries) for X/Y are catchable in OR/AS such as Misdreavus. I could also see some pokes like Cherubi get added because of their moves/ability realating to weather... |
I think it will be pretty much the same as last time, seeing as it's a re-make. I think they'll make Mawile and Sableye version exclusive again, because they both have a mega evolution. But I doubt they will introduce new Pokémon, or take any of the Hoenn region specific Pokémon out. Though after the League, maybe more Pokémon will pop up? Speaking of which, the Safari Zone will probably have a different range of Pokémon, and the Pokédex might accommodate newer Pokémon. Like, maybe now you can find Woobat in Rusturf Tunnel, or Hawlucha in Route 119.
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In the Official art for super secret bases, it was shown that there is a Litwick and Lapras doll. This seems to hint that more than just Hoenn pokemon will appear.
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I believe 250 is the best suited number for an expanded Hoenn dex, because there are 135 Hoenn Pokémon, and you don't want the number of non-Hoenn mons to outnumber it. Just look at the Unova dex in B2/W2, which had a total of 300 Pokémon. There are 155 Unova mons, and the dex has 145 non-Unova mons, so it doesn't outnumber the Unova mons. That because ORAS is a remake of an odd-numbered gen, so the new mons are suppose to outnumber the old mons, whereas with even-numbered gens, it's the exact opposite.
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According to CoroCoro there are different Pokemon in Hoenn than before, hopefully this means in addition to the original 202!
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They'll definitely add the 4th evolutions like Froslass, Dusknoir etc. Then they'll probably add more Pokemon to make Glacia and Phoebe's teams more interesting. And hopefully some more Steel Pokemon to make Steven's team more to his type than Fossil's, lmao. Something like Skarmory, Klinklang, Aggron, Magnezone, Steelix, and Metagross. His pitiful excuse of a "Steel" team in RSE was awful lol.
I would like the dex to be a lot bigger, though, it seemed that a lot of the routes in RSE had a lot of the same Pokemon. I'd even like to see it expanded to be as big as X & Y's was tbh. |
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I think it would be wise to add a small number of Kalos Pokémon, with these games being tied in with Gen VI I think it would be a good way to connect with X & Y.
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I definitely cannot see any Pokemon being removed from the Hoenn Dex, even those that aren't native to Hoenn (e.g., Pika line, Zubat line, etc.). I can, however, see the Gen. IV pre-evos. and evos. being added on, as HGSS included plenty of the Gen. IV evos. If GF decides to add any unrelated Pokemon, I'd like to see more Ice types, particularly the Swinub line (Mamoswine is a fantastic Ice type and would be so useful for Glacia to have), Lapras (also useful), and the Jynx line (Jynx may get a Mega Evo., so having her in the game could make sense).
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In addition to the Gen IV evolutions I want some Ice types, Ghost types, Fairy types, Water types (for Aqua and underwater), Ground and Fire types (for Magma and to be added in the desert and Mt. Chimney area), and 1-3 dragon lines to be added. |
Im all for the fairies and gen fours to be added.
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I'd be fine if we got a large amount of new Pokémon in the Hoenn Dex this time around. As long as the Hoenn Pokémon are made more common, they won't particularly be "overshadowed" (unlike XY, where there were hardly any Kalos Pokémon, and they were, for the most part, rare to find). I'm especially hoping for (a fair amount of) the Pokémon that can (currently) only be obtained through Pokémon Bank to be added to ORAS (this includes the gen 2 starters, and the Frillish line, which I really want to see in these games, personally).
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I'd also like to see Pokemon Bank-exclusive ones added in. I'm all for the Ghosts being included to help with Phoebe's team so she isn't stuck with two Dusclops (though, she might have a Dusknoir if Gen. IV evos. are included) and two Banettes. Yamask and Cofagrigus are also not available in Kalos, so it's a possibility that they could be added as well.
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The thing is, whatever they do with the region pokedex it'll be a step down from X/Y. (Which I think had something like 450 pokemon in the Kalos pokedex) Unless they intend to more than double the amount of pokemon catchable in Hoenn?
I'm guessing (after hearing about corocoro) that we'll get a smattering of mainly 4th and 5th gen pokemon. Maybe a couple 6th gen ones too. Of course Eevee and the Eeveelutions will probably be added. I hope they add all of the non Hoenn pokemon that had to be migrated/bred rather than caught in X/Y. (Meowth, Misdreavus, Darumaka, Yamask etc) |
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As for the CoroCoro leak, it only says "Different Pokemon in Hoenn than before." That does not mean that they just added. They could have removed some other Pokemon and replaced them, or did an exclusive shuffle. This reference may not even be true until Post-game. Like how Johto had non-native Pokemon roaming its lands in the post-game. It says nothing about pokedex updates, only that there could be more Pokemon that weren't in Hoenn before, which if you trade with Sinnoh, Unova or Kalos, this is a true fact. |
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I'd surely hope that some additions to the Hoenn Dex are made, because after games with almost 300 and 450 Pokémon to use before post-game, dropping to 200 would be underwhelming. But what i'd want most of all is for the Elite Four to have more variety than they did in the originals. If nothing else i'd hope they would add stone evolutions or such like Roserade and Gallade.
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E4 teams are going to remain the same just as they did in the other Remakes. The only changes that will be made will be in Post game. This much is to be expected. |
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I hope they add the stone evolutions too. |
The thing with adding to the PokéDex post-game is that there isn't really a whole lot of places for them to be added to. Almost every area can be accessed before the game is over. Unless they expand the Battle Tower (Frontier) to be a full-blown area like in Sinnoh, or they add a whole new mini region like the Sevii Islands, there is no place for gen 4, 5, and 6 Pokémon to be added.
The FRLG post-game had gen 2 and 3 Pokémon in the Sevii Islands. The HGSS "post-game" had gen 3 and 4 Pokémon in Kanto. The only time those Pokémon would appear in Johto would be due to the radio programs--they didn't just change the Pokémon that appeared in Johto once you beat the Champion. So if we're going by those examples, where would the gen 4, 5, and 6 Pokémon go in the Hoenn post-game? The Hoenn post-game was the Battle Tower/Frontier; it didn't have any "new locations" to explore, technically. Granted, they could easily add an area similar to the Sevii Islands, but then it wouldn't really be considered "Hoenn," but rather a "sub-region" or "mini region," and the scan (supposedly, because I can't make out a great deal of what it says) specifically mentions Hoenn. It's also unlikely that they removed Pokémon from the Hoenn Dex. Changed exclusives around is a slight maybe, mainly due to Mawile and Sableye being version exclusives, but Mawile getting its Mega in XY. But even then, I wouldn't count on that being what the scan meant. |
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I do think that it'll be the main story that we'll see them in. |
I don't think one should be confident believing in previous trends set by remakes in the past, like HGSS and FRLG. Every game is its own entity; yes, they do have similarities, but that doesn't mean it can't stray from the norm in any way. However, I do think it's improbable that huge changes will be made to the Hoenn Regional Dex, but obviously there will be some, and that could effect which Pokemon NPCs own, including gym leaders and the elite four.
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Even if Game Freak has to retcon some things (like Mega Evolutions existing for these games), they usually try to have good explanations for most things. It just seems unlikely that an island that is so far away from every other region can suddenly have hordes of new Pokémon just because you defeated the Champion. It would just make a lot more sense if the Pokémon were there from the beginning. "These are the Pokémon native to Hoenn." It's a little bit of a retcon from the originals, but nothing so incredulous that it needs any explaining. Quote:
It could be a small amount, and that would be fine. If it happens to be a large amount, all that would need to happen is have them be distributed in a fair way and it would be fine, too. |
Unova had Pokemon added two years later after waves of migration at least that what we fans think irc it was never explained. Hoenn could be similar. Also the region isn't the fathest from the others, it's said to be south of Johto just like Sinnoh is north of Kanto. Kalos and Unova are the farthest.
Maybe they could have the dex like the original but have an upgrade mid game after a mass migration event mid-game. Perhaps due to Aqua and Magma's activities. |
So I've calculated how many non-Hoenn Pokemon are needed to bring the dex up to 250, which happens to be 115 when combined with the 135 Hoenn Pokémon. If you guys want it, I could increase the number to 260 if it were 125 non-Hoenn Pokémon.
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Hoenn had type diversity, having one member of all types. It lacked species diversity for each type though :(
I don't think they'll be inferior to XY in my book if it doesn't fix the issue. 260 would mean 58 new pokémon added to the dex. I hope evolutions will be amongst them if GF ends up going for that number or something close to it. |
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Khrysta's logic is based on past examples of remakes, so while it's likely we'll see the majority of the Dex retained they may add in the 4th Gen evos and pre-evos of the Hoenn Dex Pokemon. Sorta like how Johto did a similar thing, although it only included 5 such Pokemon which were the ones that evolved by learning a certain move. Now, here's what the Gym Leaders' teams looked like in the originals: Spoiler:
And the Elite Four/Champion: Spoiler:
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I hope they add some more Pokemon to the remakes. I'd like to see Pokemon from all Generations available!
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You do realize that Ghost, Ice, and Fairy types are the three rarest types in the games, so it's justified if there is a huge lack of these Pokemon.
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That's true, but their numbers (for ice and ghost) aren't as low as they used to be anymore so some additions would be nice.
In one of the scans in Pokebeach they show Phoebe alongside Dusknoir. I guess this means the Sinnoh evolutions are being added after all <3 |
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But now I'm glad we're finally getting an expanded Hoenn dex thanks to Phoebe's Dusknoir. I might probably take back what I said about ORAS being inferior to XY. |
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http://i.imgur.com/LHK0dX6.jpg |
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They messed up the E4 teams of the generation after III too (DP), though they fixed things up with Pt by adding Pokemon of their type. Goodness...I hope that the teams for these games are like their Emerald teams as they were the most diverse in terms of species for each type, at least Wattson's, Liza & Tate, and Drake's teams were. I wonder if perhaps Liza and Tate will have Gardevoir and Gallade each...but their the aces of Wally & Diantha and Lucian respectively... |
Tate & Liza are best known for their Solrock and Lunatone, and given how all the other revealed Leaders are keeping their strongest Pokemon from RS thus far, I'd imagine they'd keep Solrock/Lunatone as well. I can see them getting Gardevoir and Gallade for a rematch battle, though the two wouldn't be their strongest.
It's nice that GF's pretty much confirmed that Gen. IV evos. are making an appearance. I'm also happy for Phoebe; even if no other Ghosts appear in the Dex, she'll likely have a little bit more variety by having a Dusknoir. (I can see her still having one Dusclops.) |
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The Pokedex is literally a GBA. I'm so happy.
And as for the Pokedex update, I can see them adding some of the Fairy types like Flabebe's line and Dedenne (Sylveon is obvious since it's an Eeveelution) , hopefully Gastrodon and Shellos, some more Ghost types like Dusknoir for Phoebe and maybe Mismagius or Rotom. (Rotom-W would go with her tropical/Hawaiian look given it's part Water). |
Wash Rotom loses the Ghost type it had as a normal Rotom so that'll be kind of a curveball to have a Pokémon that's not currently a ghost type.
I'm starting to wonder if perhaps GF won't add any more Pokémon that aren't evolutions to Hoenn dex Pokémon. They didn't give us any sort of clue as to the scope of the additions. With B2W2 irc they said A LOT of 'new' Pokémon would be added to the Unova dex. Could range anywhere between a handful (the evolutions onlu) to a lot (100-150). |
It's highly likely that the Hoenn dex will be expanded to include Pokémon not native to it. We'll most likely see a dex a lot like the one in X&Y, which I'm happy about. It would be nice to see the original 202, plus extras from the other generations to bump up variety. There's a lot of places in Hoenn that suit newer Pokémon too, especially desert Pokémon such as Sandile and Scrafty.
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Kalos? I'll rather it be like PT Sinnoh dex size. I disliked how Kalos handled it's dex in the long run. Kalos had 450 or so Pokémon...that'll mean an addition of 248 to match that thing...and I'll hate to see them outnumber the Gen III pokémon like that in the remake of their introduction region. Hoenn don't need 200 more Pokémon in it.s dex to fix type issues. A good 60 or so would do the trick.
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A GBA PokeDex.
Yup, I stand by my statement that its 20% more awesomeness. Although not as advanced as the Kalos was, It seems fitting since we are backtracking through the timeline. And how it looks so cool! I wished they made a limited edition GBA stylised as the new Hoenn PokeDex :P |
The RSE dex is said to be based off the GBA Sp's design but the original GBA wasn't used...until now. I like it, but it doesn't give me as much nostalgia as I had an SP and not the original.
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The original Hoenn Dex doesn't look like the GBA SP tbh. I feel like the HGSS Dex looks more of a GBA SP + DS haha. Now that I think about it, the original Hoenn Dex looks more advanced than the New Hoenn Dex xD;
Also, I noticed they adapted the Hoenn Dex style to the new Pokedex haha :) |
If it's anything like the HGSS Johto Pokedex, there will be Gen IV evolutions like Gallade added. I don't expect to see big changes.
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I thought the Kalos dex's size was really fun because there were so many good team options to pick from! But I guess it might just be a little bit overkill for two games in the same generation to have almost every Pokemon, haha.
I don't use the PokeDex that often, so I don't really care what it looks like, honestly |
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I think it'll be slight additions now. Does anyone recall how they referred to the additions in HGSS' Johto dex? |
To be honest, I'm not expecting too much of an addition. Most likely, they'll be rather conservative about adding new Pokemon.
I'm expecting all of the cross-generational evolutions, such as Gallade and Froslass. They might also open up some of the post-game areas during the main game, and add the Pokemon available there in Emerald to the Hoenn Dex. For example, the Desert Underpass for Ditto, or the Safari Zone's addition for Pokemon like Mareep and Houndour. Quote:
The ones it kept are all level-up w/ a certain move. Because there'd be no way to prevent you from accessing it through normal gameplay until you got to Kanto - they just learn the moves naturally. So they were added to the Johto Dex. This is why we have Mamoswine and Ambipom, but not Gliscor or Porygon-Z. Hoenn, however, has no Pokemon like that. Every single Pokemon in Hoenn that has a cross-generational evolution or pre-evolution is based on items. So, nothing would be added. |
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Then they can add gen IV, V, and VI Pokemon to the post game safari extension from Emerald. |
We already know that the Hoenn dex will be expanded in some form, as Phoebe of the Elite 4 uses a Dusknoir according to the recent Corocoro scans.
In my opinion, I think the new Pokedex will only be expanded to include new Pokemon that are evolutions or pre evolutions of pokemon in the Hoenn dex. I think this list could safely include Magnezone, Probopass (The power plant would be the perfect place for them to evolve), Froslass, Gallade, and a few others. I don't think all of the Sinnoh evolutions will be included, but at least a few of them will. An interesting thing to note is the Safari zone. Previously, it contained only pokemon foreign to Hoenn, specifically, Kanto and Johto pokemon. In emerald, there was an expansion that included some Johto pokemon not in the regional dex, including Mareep and Shuckle. It could be that the new dex is expanded to include not only the Sinnoh evolutions, but it could also include these Johto pokemon. Expanding upon this further is the idea of the whole Safari zone being expanded, and including Sinnoh, Unova and Kalos pokemon. This seems pretty unlikely, since this would likely take the original Hoenn dex and warp it beyond recognition (this is a remake, after all.), plus the other two safari zones in FR/LG and HG/SS didn't include any new Pokemon pre-credits. I would think that only a few Sinnoh evolutions will make the cut, but that's just my opinion. It could be anything, really. |
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I think all of them could make it, with Magnezone and Probopass evolving around New Mauville. They can have all the stone and trade evolutuion items. If the item evolutions and the Johto SZ Pokemon from the post game Emerald SZ expansion are included it'll include Gliscor too. |
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It's a fine margin, though, and the rule could be more lenient to open up for evolutions using other methods. |
Seeing as Phoebe's Dusknoir appears in game, I see no doubt that we see the likes of Roserade, Gallade, Froslass, and others, in game too since they are cross-generational.
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It would be odd for GF to only include Dusknoir and not any of the other Gen. IV evos., so I can definitely see them appear! Dunno about Budew; like I stated earlier it could be made available early on in Petalburg Woods or something, but at the same time, Roselia can be found near Mauville, which isn't to far in-game. Plus, babies aren't exactly the easiest Pokemon to raise since a majority aren't that strong, even in earlier parts of the games.
Still hoping that GF adds even a few more Pokemon with types that don't appear much in Hoenn, namely Ice and Ghost. If there were one more Ghost type, Phoebe would be able to have a diverse team. (Given, she could use Shedinja in place of one of her Banettes, but newer players might not be able to counter it, so it probably wouldn't be included.) Likewise, if there were one-two more Ice types, Glacia could have a diverse team. (I'm assuming Froslass will be added and will replace one of her Glalie.) |
I can really see Glacia and Wallace as getting some quality movepool change.
Azumarill is now Water/Fairy |
I really don't see a valid reason as to why they wouldn't add Budew as well as Roserade. That wouldn't make sense, and look incomplete in the dex. Also would give them an opportunity to put it earlier in the game, like the routes near Petalburg or in the Woods. Phoebe having a Dusknoir is a pretty solid indication that they're going to be adding evolutions from later generations into the dex. Other than that, there won't be much altered.
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I agree with Pepperton, it wouldn't make sense to leave out the pre evolutions. Hoenn introduced the first incenses so they'll likely add the rest to make it possible to breed if they don't add them early (I would like to see them in the wild though).
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Well the only reason they weren't int the games before was because they didn't exist, so of course there's no reason to edit them out now. In the past couple of games they seem to be adding more popular Pokemon instead of keeping them away under lock and key, so I think we'll see stuff like Eevee and Dragon-types before the game ends.
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Hoenn already has quite a few Dragon types as is (Kingdra, Flygon, Bagon line, Altaria, the Latis, Rayquaza), so I'd rather not see anymore added x_x Eevee's a possibility; part of me wants to say "YES PUT IT IN THERE PLEASE" because I love it and its Eeveelutions (plus, Glacia could have a Glacia (Glaceon) :D), but at the same time, I sort of hope it isn't. Though, even if it isn't available, one could just easily transfer it over from Pokebank/via trading unless the games prevent them from doing such. (I doubt that'd be the case, though.)
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EDIT: While it's true Shelgon/Salamence is from the same line, I think him having five fully evolved Dragons might be too much @[email protected] (Plus, none of the other E4/Champion Dragon specialists had more than four fully evolved Dragons on their team.) |
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What about alternate evolutions such as Froslass and Glalie? Glacia was the biggest victim having 3 from the Spheal family. But now that she may get Froslass it won't be as bad. Actually Phoebe may be in worse condition now unless they add more ghost types...hopefully not Shedinja... |
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Split evolutions are in a strange limbo. They're both from the family, yet they have different stat spreads/typings to make them unique. |
Unfornutely even if they add more mons of their type I don't think GF will change their teams much.
It's also possible it'll only be the Sinnoh evolutions. As long as they give Phoebe another ghost (that isn't Shedinja which is already in the Hoenn dex anyways) I'll be fine if they don't add anymore. |
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I think that the PokeDex is perfect. It's a gameboy advance and it has a new slick design alongside a new in game design which makes it distinctive compared to the others.
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We need basically more rare types in the game like Ghost, Ice, and Fairy. Maybe the Ghastly line, Eevee line, Flabebe line, and the Snover line could appear in Hoenn in the main game?
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Flabebe with tropical flowers?
Maybe they'll add in Shellos as it was meant to be a Hoenn Pokémon. |
The design is cute, but after thinking about it wouldn't be surprised if they threw Eevee into the mix here. Was such a missed presence, would make a lot of sense. If that does happen, I might use Glaceon, because May did in the anime 8)
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On the other hand, if the 4th Gen evos and pre-evos are included, which they are likely to be following the reveal of Phoebe having a Dusknoir, I could see this to be the likely new Hoenn Dex: Spoiler:
So yeah, 211 Pokemon all up there if this is anything to go by. |
I'm sure it will be more than 211, they will add some more fairy pokemons to it, since theres only Ralts, Azurill and Igglybuff line with Mawile on it. I could see Flabébé and maybe Cottonee being added.
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I don't see Cottonee to be honest, really, most probs coz it got Grass/Fairy and not Bellossom, but maybe they could throw it in the mix. As far as Flabebe with tropical flowers, I guess it could happen. Maybe we could get AZ's Floette in the mix? wink wink ;)
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True, but I'm pretty sure they will add more Fairies, coz it's a new type, unlike Ghost.
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True. Maybe they could release a new wave of Fairy retcons? Release a patch for XY for it? I doubt that's gonna happen tho haha.
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Why wouldn't they have changed the Pokemon's types to Fairy beforehand? It only creates more work for the company and it's not as if the Fairy-type really has anything special to do with Hoenn anyway, so adding new Fairies wouldn't mean anything.
I also don't see why 4th-gen evolutions wouldn't be added, either, and why Phoebe having a Dusknoir is something they need to announce instead of it being.. implied. I mean, she's an Elite Four member, she's supposed to have the strongest, meaning the final evolution. |
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Maybe they'll give Delcatty a mega that's part Fairy if they really want us to get more Fairies. |
Or a Mega Bellossom that's part-Fairy. /shot
But yeah, there are a lot of Pokemon that seems to be eligible for a Fairy Mega. |
Maybe the Hoenn dex will coincidentally go up by 20 Percent for a total of 242~ pokémon.
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If they wanted to change their types to Fairy, I think they would've for X and Y - there's no logical reason as to why they would wait until another game to give them the new typing. Only way existing Pokemon could get the type now is if they receive a new Mega evolution that transforms it into a Fairy type. d:
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Something I've been thinking of is what if GF added the Gen I-II Pokemon to these games. According to Bulbapedia they have Hoenn dex (RSE dex) numbers but that were never used in the games. However I think those numbers may have been a reference to how GSC's 'New Dex' worked. |
I think its most-likely to go with the way it did in HGSS, which had the original 251 pokemon, however expanded to include new evolutions, I'm sure this will be the case with ORAS.
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You know if they do have the 300~ Pokémon from generation I-III like I brought up earlier it'll be quite large, almost to the size of the unified Kalos dex. I doubt they include all those, but it would probably satisfy those calling for more. Plus the original Hoenn dex had 2/3 of those...
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We will mostly get pokemons that were not in Kalos dex or were in the friend safari.
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You mean those ONLY Found in the Friend Safari right? I think they'll very available at some point the games, not sure if they'll add them all though.
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