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-   -   6th Gen What effects might these games have on the series' timeline? (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=331201)

Pendraflare July 11th, 2014 8:44 PM

What effects might these games have on the series' timeline?
 
This is something that occurred to me while I was reading some of Marriland's tweets off his personal account (@ProfWaffles). Considering that they're full-on remakes and not sequels, what might go about expanding the Hoenn Dex?

For that matter, if they are remakes, they could contradict a lot of things. Not sure how many of you remember this, but in Black 2 and White 2, an ex-Team Magma and Team Aqua grunt can be found in a house in Icirrus City that's only accessible in the winter, talking about the events of the Hoenn games and that they realize they would have been catastrophic. What if Hoenn took place after those games did? Could this all be a twist in the timeline?

What do you think these games might do to the timeline if they're nothing more than remakes? Discuss.

Leaf Magics July 11th, 2014 10:38 PM

They're remakes, so I think they will stay in their current timeline place. I think the only thing they are contradicting is what Professor Sycamore says about Mega Evolution being seen only in Kalos.

Though he also considers the possibility that the reason for Mega Evolution being seen only in Kalos may be the region's legendary Pokémon, which are capable of giving and taking life. Perhaps in Hoenn Mega Evolution will be linked to the Cave of Origin and Mt. Pyre, which are supposedly the places where all life begins and ends, respectively.

By the way, those two places may also be important for Primal Reversion, which is supposed to be related to Mega Evolution, since one holds the Orbs that becalmed and later awakened Groudon and Kyogre, and the other is where we encounter those Pokémon in their original versions. Maybe Hoenn wil have access to Mega Evolution thanks to Primal Reversion.

Salzorrah July 11th, 2014 11:37 PM

Nothing. They can just simply retcon the things that were previously mentioned, and add it in the games. They did that with the Dark/Steel types in Gen 3.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2014 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leaf Magics (Post 8344497)
They're remakes, so I think they will stay in their current timeline place. I think the only thing they are contradicting is what Professor Sycamore says about Mega Evolution being seen only in Kalos.

Though he also considers the possibility that the reason for Mega Evolution being seen only in Kalos may be the region's legendary Pokémon, which are capable of giving and taking life. Perhaps in Hoenn Mega Evolution will be linked to the Cave of Origin and Mt. Pyre, which are supposedly the places where all life begins and ends, respectively.

By the way, those two places may also be important for Primal Reversion, which is supposed to be related to Mega Evolution, since one holds the Orbs that becalmed and later awakened Groudon and Kyogre, and the other is where we encounter those Pokémon in their original versions. Maybe Hoenn wil have access to Mega Evolution thanks to Primal Reversion.

This. Plus in RSE they say Mt. Pyre and Origin Cave are connected. I used to assume as a 10 year old that it meant physically (gah the hours I spent trying to find a link between the two...). But now I think it was referring to the flow of energy (souls maybe) in the region and the legends.

MrGriszell July 12th, 2014 4:31 AM

This game will take place around the same time as XY . Despite what anyone says these aren't full straight up remakes many things are added so it's obviously going to be retcon as taking place near the same time as XY

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2014 6:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrGriszell (Post 8344887)
This game will take place around the same time as XY . Despite what anyone says these aren't full straight up remakes many things are added so it's obviously going to be retcon as taking place near the same time as XY

Even if they added things I doubt they'll retcon the time line for these games.

MrGriszell July 12th, 2014 6:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8345024)
Even if they added things I doubt they'll retcon the time line for these games.

Why not? It wouldn't be difficult at all.its already not the same story with the Primal and all the mega evolutions

Rivvon July 12th, 2014 8:16 AM

Game Freak can retcon a lot of gameplay-related things into these games, such as Mega Evolutions, but to completely change its place in the timeline doesn't seem like something they would do. If anything, they'll probably add some hints as to where it is precisely in the timeline (for instance, is it happening at the same time as RGBY/FRLG, or does it happen slightly after its events?). It seems unlikely that they would retcon story elements that goes against what NPCs talk about in other games (like the ex-Magma and Aqua Grunts in Unova, as Stargazer mentions).

SnowpointQuincy July 12th, 2014 8:49 AM

Every game retcons new material into the games. Every one. It is totally normal for this to happen.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2014 10:36 AM

And these despite retcons the time line remain the same.
Not sure why people want remakes to take place at the same time as the orignal pair of the new generation.

Leaf Magics July 12th, 2014 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8345297)
And these desoite retcons the time line remains the same.
Not sure why people want remakes to take place at the same time as the orignal pair of the new generation.

And most of the important retcons happen in remakes, and they mostly affect only the remade games. I consider that things like the ex- Aqua and Magma grunts in B2W2 to be story developments or simply references to other regions, rather than retcons.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2014 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leaf Magics (Post 8345337)
And most of the important retcons happen in remakes, and they mostly affect only the remade games. I consider that things like the ex- Aqua and Magma grunts in B2W2 to be story developments or simply references to other regions, rather than retcons.

The Aqua and Magma grunts being B2W2 can't be considered a retcon, unless ORAS retcons the time line, but it'll be due to ORAS rather than B2W2's fault.

Leaf Magics July 12th, 2014 5:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8345410)
The Aqua and Magma grunts being B2W2 can't be considered a retcon, unless ORAS retcons the time line, but it'll be due to ORAS rather than B2W2's fault.

I think you just repeated what I said. Were you agreeing?

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2014 5:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leaf Magics (Post 8345840)
I think you just repeated what I said. Were you agreeing?

Yeah, I was a bit confused though if that was what you meant so I decided to repeat it to make sure xD.

The official site mentions that ORAS will dive deeper into the secrets of Mega Evolution. Hopefully 'Z' will retcon the XY story to add what we unearth in the remakes taking place years before.

Jakeremix July 12th, 2014 5:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leaf Magics (Post 8344497)
They're remakes, so I think they will stay in their current timeline place. I think the only thing they are contradicting is what Professor Sycamore says about Mega Evolution being seen only in Kalos..

They contradicted that before these games were even announced with Mr. Fuji.

L0RD G3NGAR July 12th, 2014 6:06 PM

I think the timeline is stupid. Who really cares if they mess up the timeline? The game is meant for fun. Clearly gf doesn't care, as long as they are making money. Besides, from what I've heard people say about the timeline, X and Y are not on them...

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2014 6:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamebot (Post 8345912)
I think the timeline is stupid. Who really cares if they mess up the timeline? The game is meant for fun. Clearly gf doesn't care, as long as they are making money. Besides, from what I've heard people say about the timeline, X and Y are not on them...

According to someone working at GF RGBYFrLg=RSE and three years later GSCHgSs=DPP and some years later BW followed by two years B2W2=XY. So XY take place at the same time as the Unova sequels.
The time line's main purpose imo is to keep the lore of the over arching games consistent. Other than that it probably has little meaning feature wise.

Altius July 12th, 2014 6:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamebot (Post 8345912)
I think the timeline is stupid. Who really cares if they mess up the timeline? The game is meant for fun. Clearly gf doesn't care, as long as they are making money. Besides, from what I've heard people say about the timeline, X and Y are not on them...

According to some Gamefreak employee, XY happens at the same time period as BW2.

And I agree. The timeline isn't all that important to Gamefreak. Honestly I think what drove Gamefreak to remake Ruby and Sapphire were requests. Development could have started at the moment when Junichi Masuda replied RSremake on twitter about the possibility years ago (pic below).



Take a look at recent stuff before ORAS were announced. The "future plans" picture? Look at all of the comments. More demand = more money. Why not.

However, I don't think the timeline is stupid. It actually provides some sort of flow, continuity.

Jacrad July 12th, 2014 6:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakeremix (Post 8345903)
They contradicted that before these games were even announced with Mr. Fuji.

I'm confused about what you're talking about? o.o
Oh, wait! Are you referring to Pokemon Origins? If you are, then it's not really a contradiction. No one saw the fight between Mewtwo and Charizard so it could still be true that no one had seen Megaevolution outside of Kalos. We know legends of it had existed thanks to Gurkinn.
Plus I'm not sure if the Origins is meant to be canon or not?

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2014 8:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyanosis (Post 8345934)
I'm confused about what you're talking about? o.o
Oh, wait! Are you referring to Pokemon Origins? If you are, then it's not really a contradiction. No one saw the fight between Mewtwo and Charizard so it could still be true that no one had seen Megaevolution outside of Kalos. We know legends of it had existed thanks to Gurkinn.
Plus I'm not sure if the Origins is meant to be canon or not?

I don't think that anime was canon to the games.

In XY they said it was recently uncovered, but considering the appearance of the Tower of Mastery it looks old. So it's more like it was rediscovered recently. Speaking about recently Y's entry for Rayquaza irc says that it wasn't seen until recently. So perhaps it was rediscovered at the same time as in Kalos. The only thing they're contradicting is that it's Kalos only, but 'Z' will likely fix that up for the Kalos games too.

Leaf Magics July 12th, 2014 8:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8345846)
Yeah, I was a bit confused though if that was what you meant so I decided to repeat it to make sure xD.

The official site mentions that ORAS will dive deeper into the secrets of Mega Evolution. Hopefully 'Z' will retcon the XY story to add what we unearth in the remakes taking place years before.

Oh yes, that is what I meant.

And now that you say that, it makes a lot of sense to me that this seems to be the only thing out of place: if Professor Sycamore had said that Mega Evolution is seen in Hoenn as well as Kalos, it would have been as good as confirming new Hoenn games just as XY came out.

Now that Mega Evolution is going to be in these remakes' stories, it could be established in them that Mega Evolution is actually seen in many regions. After that, if they release a third version like Pokémon Z, that game could retcon Professor Sycamore's research to say that Mega Evolution has been witnessed in regions other than Kalos.

Arc July 12th, 2014 8:35 PM

Aside from GF having to retcon Sycamore saying that Mega Evolution has only been seen in Kalos, OR/AS should have be fine. They'll obviously replace R/S place in the timeline that much is guaranteed. But, it's a good thing that the events of R/S have been rather self-contained. The only event that refers to R/S that extends to another game is Steven going to Kanto and Sinnoh two years later, even then Steven didn't really do anything important. OR/AS can't possibly screw up the timeline unless they did something really drastic.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2014 9:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arc (Post 8346157)
Aside from GF having to retcon Sycamore saying that Mega Evolution has only been seen in Kalos, OR/AS should have be fine. They'll obviously replace R/S place in the timeline that much is guaranteed. But, it's a good thing that the events of R/S have been rather self-contained. The only event that refers to R/S that extends to another game is Steven going to Kanto and Sinnoh two years later, even then Steven didn't really do anything important. OR/AS can't possibly screw up the timeline unless they did something really drastic.

There was also the former Aqua and Magma grunts in B2W2. Hey...they both said they wanted to expand the Sea and Land in the past, yet these games are likely to not have both of those. So in a way B2W2 established Emerald as canon but now these two will likely destroy the Emerald canon and regain their place...unless they make Delta Emerald to keep the two teams being evil plot as in RS one was evil and the other nice and that's the way it seems it'll go for these games.

Other than that there's no issues. The evil plot was only mentioned in B2W2 actually... no one else mentioned it. Kind of funny how XY according to that GF worker takes place the same time as B2W2, it shows how a general idea of how far away in time the events of Kalos are from Hoenn's.

Cerberus87 July 12th, 2014 9:49 PM

The mess with the timeline was why I didn't want these games to be remade. :P I mean, it was so convenient to have, or believe, that RSE took place at the same time as FRLG... This is really the first time a remake requires retconning of the Pokémon timeline, because that wasn't the case with HGSS. It was generally agreed that HGSS took place after FRLG and concomitant with DPPt, not least because of the clues in both 4th gen game sets.

With the 3rd gen remakes, I believe the timeline would be retconned to make ORAS happen at the same time as XYZ. The number one issue I have with it, though, is that there are the ex-grunts in B2W2 and the fact XYZ MUST happen after B2W2, because back in B2W2 Mega Evolution hadn't been discovered yet (or else Colress' research would be moot). So, in a way, they Zeldified the Pokémon timeline. Either that, or they don't give a ♥♥♥♥.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2014 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8346268)
The mess with the timeline was why I didn't want these games to be remade. :P I mean, it was so convenient to have, or believe, that RSE took place at the same time as FRLG... This is really the first time a remake requires retconning of the Pokémon timeline, because that wasn't the case with HGSS. It was generally agreed that HGSS took place after FRLG and concomitant with DPPt, not least because of the clues in both 4th gen game sets.

With the 3rd gen remakes, I believe the timeline would be retconned to make ORAS happen at the same time as XYZ. The number one issue I have with it, though, is that there are the ex-grunts in B2W2 and the fact XYZ MUST happen after B2W2, because back in B2W2 Mega Evolution hadn't been discovered yet (or else Colress' research would be moot). So, in a way, they Zeldified the Pokémon timeline. Either that, or they don't give a ♥♥♥♥.

Well if the GF worker is right XY take place in the same year as B2W2. Also Megas not being in B2W2 is like how GSC lacks Sinnoh and Hoenn Pokémon (happening after Hoenn, yet slightly before DPP (due to the Shiny Gyarados event in Johto already happening at the start of DP) but same year).
RSE is confirmed to be at the same time as RGBY too. There's no need to retcon where in the timeline they take place. Them not taking place in the same year is the result of GF moving beyond the original games years (RGBY and their sequels (GSC) years) with Gen V and continuing the Gen V reboot in terms of moving on with the timeline. ORAS represent our going back to Gen I(and III of course) time (for the first time since Emerald) and back to the Japan regions (after six games).


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