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Then youre begging to fall behind. And if thats what you desire, your choice. But if you want this place to get some "deserved" recognizion, stuff needs to be done. I'd love to tutor someone half-decent (I dont wanna deal with retards using Bellossom because its their fav mon), and though I rarely play XY, I'm good enough to see and understand the metagame.
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If you wanna know where this place stands, its far behind. Youre coming to a second-tier community asking for advice, when nothing stops you from getting somthing better. If you want a rate, go smogon, or expect inferior advice. And TRYING to be the second best is just weird as a goal.
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For clarification, I did not start here. I was already a member on Smogon. My reason for joining was to compete in a forum war. I come back from time to time because the people that are here are long-time members that I knew from years ago. The more relaxed atmosphere is a nice alternative to the serious competition on Smogon. That's not to say there isn't serious competition here, but it certainly has a different vibe and you shouldn't look to erase that. You won't ever beat Smogon doing competitive. My recommendation would be to build a competitive infrastructure that members here can learn from to build up the current base, but keep it at a point where there is a noticeable cultural difference between here and Smogon. That way you have a good chance of keeping members that participate on both sites because they understand the value of the community here.
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Yeah I think on the note of what Aero and Jake are saying, "laid-back experience" is a legitimate draw for some people, and more to the point, no one in our community really wants to get intense, get recognition, etc. It's just not in the cards at the moment with the competitive community in the state it's in, even if we did want it. Basically what Kevin Garrett said. And with that, I'd prefer to just move on since it's a discussion that probably isn't going to go anywhere except downhill, and there are real efforts we need to get working on right now.
(In case that wasn't clear: STOP WITH THIS TOPIC.) edit: adding spoilers to make it less daunting so y'all will read it ;) on clans: Spoiler:
on tutoring and leagues: Spoiler:
Just some other thoughts... on forum name: Spoiler:
on a potential team building workshop thread: Spoiler:
on potential truncated ou threat list thread: Spoiler:
meh just look: Spoiler:
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I think with the clans it might be worth having a sort of clan champiomship, as well as channels on the server for each clan, to promote competition and interaction.
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I know the laid-back experience is why you'd go here. But my question is, why would you want a laid-back experience? If you post RMT's here, you're expecting second-hand rates, when you coulda gone Smogon and gotten a tier one rate at no cost. That's like choosing Ember over Flamethrower.
Also, Smogon isn't all 100% serious. Isn't that why Firebot exists? |
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Pretty sure if you put up a well-made RMT on Smogon, players like Chimpact, SS, Aim, whoever the ♥♥♥♥ that rates teams nowadays, will give you a top tier rate if you ask for it.
But yea, point taken. O_o |
Anyway, we wanted to move on.
About clans, I like the thought of having various teams of players going against each other. If it jumped to a serious scale, a couple of world-cup-like tournaments would be refreshing. However, Anti makes a fair warning about them flaming out. It'll be all excitement at first, but needs some serious investment of players/(maybe artists to keep it fancy? Seriously, grab some talented folks from the artistic forums. If it looks amazing, people are more likely to be attracted to the cool-factor and they'll have a more unique flare than here-is-our-thread-join-us-look-at-our-trophies) to sustain itself. I'm not so sure it could be a let's-figure-it-out-along-the-way kind of project. I'd comment on other areas (server staff/forum staff disconnect) but I've simply been too absent to fairly recommend changes. |
I don't come here much ;-;. I realise that this is a bit delayed, and the topic has moved on a bit, but I just wanted to give my point of view as an outsider to the battling community.
I only go on the server to play some fun matches, I don't play competitively and I don't stick around there for chatting. Some members have mentioned people asking for matches and being ignored, that has happened to me most of the times I sign in - which, admittedly, are getting rarer and rarer. I'd also like to address Chase who said... Quote:
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Very good points here! I wanted to say though that these topics you are referring to are totally not OK at all. Before the server was recognized "officially" by PC, we did allow more sexual topics and weren't cracking down on such things but now everything must remain in line with what is allowed on PC itself. If I were to come on a new server and see them talking about masturbation I would immediately leave because as you said it is offputting. Eliminating these types of discussions is a top priority for us staff right now because if we are bettering the server overall we can't have outright explicit chats. |
I'd also propose to ban Twitter-like spam. I think getting rid of this kind of chat like this would go a long way to making newbies feel at ease since it's easier for a newbie to join a discussion on competitive talk or a topic (says some news) rather then 2-3 people talking about their lunch.
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While I do agree that for newbies looking to battle that entering on a chat centered around competitive battling would be better for them, we aren't just going to ban certain topics. That is turning the server into a dictatorship. You can't just go and alter the rules to include things like "no talking about your lunch", "topics about your pet are prohibited", etc. That just sounds silly and is way over the top. There is no way with as small of a community as we have that the server will be 100% competitive chat 100% of the time. There is just nothing wrong with small talk. We can still make the server more centered around competitive without completely changing the way it's run. As a community we just have to find a way to make the chats more balanced. Right now I'd say it's 70/30 with 70% being small talk. I'd say a good goal for our small of a community right now would be to try to bring it to 40/60 with the 60% being focused on competitive. Compromise is the key, not exclusion.
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There's a difference between small talk and meaningless spam, I mean I don't tell my irl friends about where my dog did his daily deed...do you? I don't think it's possible to keep the server 100% competitive talk related and I wouldn't want it like that but I think we need to rethink what we define as small talk and what is essentially spam. We should chat like normal people and utilize the server properly.
I don't say this to be an ass to the people who do like to use PC this way but the server is much more productive when the chat is focused on competitive talk. I don't even visit the server that much and I can tell that much. If you want I can post some logs or something about the difference between the two. |
That's fair enough. Still though rather than banning "twitter like spam" and punishing users for it, I think the best step it just to discourage this and encourage our users to be more mindful to the chat if it is having a competitive based discussion. When no one is talking, as long as it isn't breaking the rules for being explicit I am fine with anything being the topic. We have a very understanding userbase that I think would really do well as we start to transition into the more competitive chat. And for those who weren't around last year, our chat has improved beyond belief. This time a year ago, you were lucky to see the chat be about Pokemon 5% of the time. The usual topic was about the color of usernames. So things are improving. Just slowly.
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It's funny you mention that any topic suffices when there isn't chat since the main reason chat dies is because someone posts about their day and only one other is interested in discussing it.
Isn't the fact the chat has made little progress a worrying sign? We had this discussion about the server chat last year and came to exact same conclusion. We need to drive the chat to be more competitive. A year has passed and our progress is...coloured usernames to PC Twitter? Do we become PC Instagram next? There are times when good discussion gets going, sadly enough this is when most of these so-called regulars are offline. We don't need a massive ban but for mods to keep the chat on topic and actually do their job. |
Not trying to sound arrogant but when was the last time you even visited the server? If it was recently you would see that it has in fact improved so much since this time last year. I don't see the issue that you seem to be having with the chat. It's improving. It's not going to change 100% to the way you want it overnight and it's highly annoying that you think us mods aren't "doing our job". Us staff have put a lot of effort into moderating the server, finding ways to bring it more activity, and just overall make it a better place. The issue isn't that we "don't have the stomach to tell friends to stop spamming" but rather we just simply aren't going to mute people or tell them they can't talk about a subject just because it isn't always competitive.
On another note, I am fine with staff stepping in and telling users to not interrupt the current topic with something that doesn't contribute, but for the most part this isn't an issue. I can say that I personally will pay more attention and try to discourage users from blatantly changing the current topic if everyone seems to be engaged in an all in discussion on competitive. Also just one more thing, I don't know why the chat has become the center of discussion. It honestly is one of the smaller issues overall in the big picture. Just changing the chat isn't going to achieve what we are all trying to here. |
It was today and it was actually quite pleasant since the chat was of worth. And no, it has improved in it's consistency but when it hits rock bottom (which unfortunately is more then it should) it degenerates into something no better then the colored username fiasco. There is improvement but it comes from a small portion of the server rather then the server as a whole.
And I'm not saying it's going to change overnight, this exact discussion was had last year and the decision was made to change the server chat. A year and a bit is plenty to change things. And you don't want to mute people but what difference is there muting a spammer and someone who is contributing absolutely zilch to the topic at hand? Far as I'm concerned the two are the same. Not saying you aren't doing your job but rather I think being a little harsher is probably what we need. The modding team is well chosen as far as I'm concerned, maybe just a little too lenient. Because the server has always been the backbone of this forum. Making the server a better place for newbies will create interest for the forum. Other ideas like tutoring and clans would take place on the server. If people want this forum to actually become active again, the improvement starts from the server. |
I agree totally! Starting from the server and working up is the route to go. We just have to find a way to get the server regulars involved. I think the majority would love the idea of clans and tutoring programs as nearly everyone there is there because they have at least some interest in competitive. As more people become involved the chat will naturally fix itself.
(also i want to apologize if I have sounded arrogant in any of my posts. I have a high amount of respect for you because I realize you are a veteran and have contributed far more than I have to this forum and servers over the years. I understand why you want things to be a certain way and fully support that.) |
Believe me I had no intention of attacking anyone, it is a little frustrating for those who've been here longer to see just how active and fun this forum used to be. Not saying the current state is terrible but rather it could be so much more (sure you would agree with this?). And I agree, if we can get tutoring and competitions going and slowly cutting back on some of the server spam I think it'd go a long way to getting this forum back on it's feet. The userbase is there no doubt.
I'm sure you've done just as much as I have haha, probably more to be honest. And I guess I do sound like I'm trying to dictate what the forum should be but from past experience a more competitive-orientated server leads to a much more active forum. And it's not like we talked competitive 100%, there was more then a fair share of normal discussion ;D |
mhm there is always room for improvement. As we are small we will be taking baby steps but I am really excited to see how things start to evolve over the coming weeks and months. I really expect to see the forum and server both improving as it seems everyone is serious about this. Moreso than last time this was brought up
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Spoilers cuz a few long things I figure:
On Moderating the Chat Discussions Spoiler:
On Clans Spoiler:
On Server Atmosphere Spoiler:
On the UU Threatlist Project Spoiler:
On Elf Being Dumb Spoiler:
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Clans: Clans have two major problems nowadays: a) lack of reliable thread activity and content, and b) thread longevity. In the past, clans were kept afloat because of Wi-Fi battle scheduling (see: the current active league in this forum right now). When clans are completely reliant on battle simulators like PS, their threads lose a lot of activity for obvious reasons. Anti's suggestion of mentor/tutor clans would fix the first problem, but ultimately it comes down to our experienced battlers and if they're interested enough to consistently mentor people and keep the threads active. If we don't have individual threads for each clan, we avoid these problems for the most part. Instead, we could make a league that's split up into teams. Within the league we could have clan wars, outsider challengers, and so on. Could also mentor in the league thread with every team/clan included, but a separate mentorship program would be better. Here is a more elaborate description on it (the spoiler contains the important stuff). Miscellaneous ideas: • Battle Dojo: An event that encourages people to improve their battling skills. Two major aspects of it: a) try to get as high as possible on Smogon's ladder (perhaps while using a specific Pokemon?), and b) after practicing on the ladder, everyone battles each other in a tournament finale. Can split everyone into teams to spice things up. • Team Rating Event: Hopefully Zeffy won't mind me quoting him! Quote:
• Community Create-A-Team: Should be self-explanatory. The community develops a team together. • More small tournaments with fun themes. I miss making these. • A battle server rule that states battling related topics as a higher priority over off-topic chat, which essentially means that BSS will take action if people attempt to change the topic when there's already a healthy battling related chat going on. Probably isn't practical or needed, but I figure I would throw the idea out there. • More noticeable prefixes. Could help discussions stand out. Here's a mockup that I'd like feedback on: Quote:
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I'm still on the fence about it so feel free to comment. |
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