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-   -   Why is pokemon so unbalanced? (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=338106)

Polar Spectrum November 8th, 2014 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juxapose (Post 8491628)
I refuse to answer this cause I am better than that.

Cause it's not official.

Cause VGC does not apply Smogon's tier system.

The point is that Game freak does not apply a tier system, so the game is unbalanced. We have a tier system, but it's NOT official (thusfore the game remains unbalanced).

Well I'm doing my best to follow your argument here mate, but I'm left a little confused- you won't answer questions about what specifically you're talking about - but you say people are ignoring your evidence. You said creating rules and classifying pokemon based on usage is unbalanced because it's not official - but then you say the official pokemon tournaments aren't balanced, because they don't follow Smogon's rules and classifications? Quite frankly my friend, there's a juxtaposition (yuk yuk yuk) of reasonings within your statements here, and I'm curious what you're really getting at. Because I personally am significantly more fond of VGC elements than community ones, but can't seem to pick out what I agree with you on and what we disagree on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juxapose (Post 8491682)
Reason why I refuse to answer the question is because I can spend the whole day looking u the tons of gigabytes of evidence, posting the hundreds of youtube videos of trainers complaining of hacks and broken pokemon, moves, abilities, rules, and glitches, I can post interviews of trainers who live in my city refusing to play VGC because they believe the game is too hacked to be playable. All this I can do, but I already seen this forum's stubborn attitude trying to dismiss all my evidence because "I like my game to be broken, I can win that way. Fair play is no fun. The game allows it, so it's fair play."

So instead of wasting my time, I'll just leave it the way it is. When Smogon bans Pokémon/moves/abilities, and fans need to open their own servers to escape the OP. Game freak makes Patches to fix bugs. But people still ask this question:

This can only be looked at as an act of denial and acceptance.

Mate, just because someone, or even a large group of people complain about something in a game, doesn't mean it's broken. Because that would make everything and anything in pokemon broken, since doubtlessly it's been complained about at some point. (Except stunfisk, I don't think I've ever heard Stunfisk complaints. VGC 2015: Stunfisk only) But the point of my responding to this quote of yours is more to question what you believe the phrases "Hack" and "Hackable" mean. Because VGC is entirely puritan in what they allow to be in tournaments, so much so that a pokemon that had a purely superficial aspect changed illegitimately is grounds for instant disqualification. It doesn't get much more non-hack-friendly than that. And I'm not sure if you've seen the last years VGC matches, but all the finalists, especially the winner - used very measured and non exploitive strategies. I won't go hammer that one name I'm sure everyone's tired of hearing by now, but they didn't even have a pokemon in common between the two of them I believe. And that would mean my friend; that there is nothing so broken it is mandatory to use to win at this point. ie; not broken. (note that VGC is doubles format Kalos Born only however. So there's that aiding the balance.)

Nakasu November 8th, 2014 11:41 AM

By hacks do you mean when a Level 1 Probopas takes out a Level 100 Blaziken? And by Glitch do you mean when a Pokemon with Sturdy is K.O'd in 1 hit? I assure you it's all strategy. Tiers don't matter much, since it's been proven that Pokemon in low tiers have the ability to defeat those in OU or Ubers. Didn't expect to see Pachirisu win VGC? Well I can see what you mean by Sceptile being utterly destroyed by Blaziken but Swampert can easily take out a Blaziken. Just because it's Ubers and seems to be unstoppable doesn't mean you can't win.

MoxieInfinite November 10th, 2014 4:23 PM

Pokemon is a horrible competitive game. Nintendo tries hard to balance it, but fails because they lack knowledge on how to balance ****, and about the metagame in general. Go play Chess instead.

Polar Spectrum November 10th, 2014 4:32 PM

Lol this guy ^

But with no discontent towards singles or anything else that could be considered passively insulted by my saying so; OP have you tried doubles? :/ it's a lot less.... What you might be specifically calling unbalanced

MoxieInfinite November 10th, 2014 9:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polar Spectrum (Post 8494429)
Lol this guy ^

Are you saying I'm wrong?

Polar Spectrum November 10th, 2014 9:55 PM

I'm saying you're entertaining amongst other things-

But yes, I disagree. They haven't left it very balanced in some areas; but if you took almost any team today and used it in the 4th gen meta, it would be a pretty 'broken' system, wouldn't it?

MoxieInfinite November 10th, 2014 10:40 PM

ofc it'd be broken the powercreep was insane??? What kind of argument is that?

Juxapose November 11th, 2014 1:40 PM

Here goes something I just encountered that has been BROKEN since Gen 3, and was never fixed. A special attack that makes contact (petal dance). Not sure what doofus at game freak made that mistake, but can someone explain how throwing petals at my opponent causes me to make direct contact with my opponent?

Nah November 11th, 2014 1:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juxapose (Post 8495230)
Here goes something I just encountered that has been BROKEN since Gen 3, and was never fixed. A special attack that makes contact (petal dance). Not sure what doofus at game freak made that mistake, but can someone explain how throwing petals at my opponent causes me to make direct contact with my opponent?

"Broken" means something different in the competitive scene, jsyk.

But I chalk that up to just being one of those nonsensical things Game Freak does on a routine basis. Fusion Bolt isn't a contact move, but it looks like the Pokemon makes contact in the animations, for example.

Juxapose November 11th, 2014 2:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zekrom (Post 8495239)
"Broken" means something different in the competitive scene, jsyk.

I do know that "broken" and "overpowered ridiculously" are similar in the competitive world. But when I say "broken", I am referring to the poor programming that players exploit to help raise their chances to win. there are many examples of this problem in the game. I just refuse to list them all, and those are only the ones I know about. I keep finding new broken rules as I continue to play.

Thursday November 11th, 2014 3:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juxapose (Post 8495247)
I do know that "broken" and "overpowered ridiculously" are similar in the competitive world. But when I say "broken", I am referring to the poor programming that players exploit to help raise their chances to win. there are many examples of this problem in the game. I just refuse to list them all, and those are only the ones I know about. I keep finding new broken rules as I continue to play.

Wait, do you mean like status ailments or certain abilities like Super Luck?

Polar Spectrum November 11th, 2014 4:26 PM

M.I. - it's not an argument, just a statement of my opinion, I disagree with your opinion, but I recognize it could absolutely be more correct than my stance ultimately. What I said was also merely critical of the failure of the 'competitive scene' to develop along with the games since fourth gen. My statement was alluding to trying to conform what the meta is nowadays, to standards which people still try and hold to from almost a decade or more ago.


Petal Dance making contact isn't "broken", too :P By most people's definition anyways. If you'd like to know more special moves that make contact though, Grass Knot does- as well as Draining Kiss. There's a reason for all of those however; and frankly I'm glad there's some special moves that make contact. It adds a layer of knowledge to more experienced players repertoire to maintain advantages over novices. *puffs pipe and adjusts monocle*

Firebreathing Ice Cube December 8th, 2014 1:52 AM

I think Smogon does its best in making the game more balanced and fair by ranking Pokemon by their usage stats rather than raw power. I've been watching and playing the competitive scene for a while now, and while I'm not that good of a player, I can understand the importance of having to put your best foot forward in competitions. There's no point in using something if you know there's something else that does what you want better, so for the players that wanna win, they use the same Pokemon again and again. The tiers were created because some Pokemon just do their roles better than the rest, and they get used more often than others. Partitioning Pokemon in tiers like this at least puts everyone in a relatively equal playing field by removing those that do really really well.

People have been lauding Se Jun Park and his use of Pachirisu in the World Championships, saying that that's how you win using Pokemon you like. But you have to think, it's not that he centered his team around it, it's just the final obscure puzzle piece that fit so well with everything. What he proved there was that every Pokemon has its niche in competitive (except maybe Magikarp and Sunkern), and nothing's stopping you from finding it. The hard part is finding that certain niche though; it takes one heck of a mind to think of that in the context of high-stakes play.

It's competitive, you HAVE to work at your best. If you wanna play Pokemon for fun, go ahead. Pokemon's such a fun game, everyone should play it the way they want.


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